From invite+kbgggegr at facebookmail.com  Sun Mar  1 00:23:46 2009
From: invite+kbgggegr at facebookmail.com (Ronald M Smith)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 21:23:46 -0800
Subject: [5-DayForum] Check out my Facebook profile
Message-ID: <a755522a4b5852f5447e5a6a96f2f40c@localhost.localdomain>

Hi How,

I set up a Facebook profile where I can post my pictures, videos and events and I want to add you as a friend so you can see it. First, you need to join Facebook! Once you join, you can also create your own profile.

Thanks,
Ronald

To sign up for Facebook, follow the link below:
http://www.facebook.com/p.php?i=1149616375&k=5XLX5YPZQ42M5BCERB32V3&r


This e-mail may contain promotional materials. If you do not wish to receive future commercial mailings from Facebook, please click on the link below. Facebook's offices are located at 156 University Ave., Palo Alto, CA 94301.
http://www.facebook.com/o.php?k=a14e0f&u=1075303778

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From Aaron at eurofixonline.com  Tue Mar  3 12:08:30 2009
From: Aaron at eurofixonline.com (Aaron Stokes)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 11:08:30 -0600
Subject: [5-DayForum]  Important News about Advertising (Tacoma, WA)
Message-ID: <90C4D61B60784530A6322D9DF4032BC2@aaroncomputer>

Steven, did your sale go through? Did you get enough contacts?



Aaron 
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From merrymcc at gmail.com  Tue Mar  3 12:17:01 2009
From: merrymcc at gmail.com (Merry McConnell)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 12:17:01 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] It's TIME!
Message-ID: <92c4cf3d0903030917i60c1d7d8ga6693693956e2d09@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Everyone...

I have just sent in my newspaper ad for my 5-Day Sale in Louisville, KY.  My
friend came up from Florida to help me and we're getting everything
accomplished (by the book)...I'll keep you posted because I'm in a situation
to SELL or walk...and I'm going through the entire process with complete
submission to the system, no matter how scary it is.  I'm hoping to be able
to encourage everyone out there who wants or needs to use this method,
because I think it makes perfect sense.

More later!

Merry

-- 
IF YOU THINK YOU CAN OR YOU THINK YOU CAN'T...YOU'RE RIGHT!  Henry Ford
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From sterbert at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  3 14:40:34 2009
From: sterbert at yahoo.com (Steven Herbert)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 11:40:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [5-DayForum] Important News about Advertising (Tacoma, WA)
In-Reply-To: <90C4D61B60784530A6322D9DF4032BC2@aaroncomputer>
Message-ID: <240491.37524.qm@web30204.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Nope,

I'm pretty disappointed. It was a hard decision to
make. I didn't want to put all my helpers through that
(free babysitting of my 3 small kids also) only to set
myself up for a failure of sorts. 

I talked to several of the contacts though--many of
them said they were interested in a future open house.
Someone gave me feedback on my ad, saying I should
have been more specific about the location (not the
address so much as the neighborhood's name--which
would have been a good selling point).

So, my idea is to try to run another ad, Sooner than
later, before I lose these fish (and before my house
gets wrecked again by the daily grind w/3 kids). I'm
concerned about getting my help coordinated all over
again though on short notice.

I'll take pointers from anyone at this point.

STeven 



--- Aaron Stokes <Aaron at eurofixonline.com> wrote:

> Steven, did your sale go through? Did you get enough
> contacts?
> 
> 
> 
> Aaron >
_______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> 



      

From lancebailey at cox.net  Sun Mar  1 11:05:03 2009
From: lancebailey at cox.net (Lance Bailey)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 11:05:03 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] Pricing?
Message-ID: <20090301110503.UGUDY.151791.imail@eastrmwml45>

Based on recent comps. my house would sell around the 189K mark.  At 50% off I would place the ad price at 94,500K but I would even be happy selling at 180K! (which 90K is 50% off) So 94500-90K
So my question is based off these figures which magic number to use? 99,500 is too high, 74,5000 is low(I know low is ok but I don?t want to work so hard) Cant I get away with 89,500 or is it imperative that I use a magic number and If so which one do I go with?
Also do we go into detail about the bidding process on the initial call/email or only at the inspection visit? What is said on the initial call?
Thanks,
Lance


From ROBERT.ZUCKERMAN at wellsfargo.com  Sun Mar  1 07:51:45 2009
From: ROBERT.ZUCKERMAN at wellsfargo.com (ROBERT.ZUCKERMAN at wellsfargo.com)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 06:51:45 -0600
Subject: [5-DayForum] running the sale
Message-ID: <972C5CEA75BCEB4DBF2D1F18FDE54B861A13C8@msgswbiadsm24.wellsfargo.com>

hi we are currently running the sale and I am getting very discouraged.
My ad is 1/2 the price i really would like, which is actually less then
market value. I think almost everyone who has called and come to view
really thinks that they have a chance at getting my house $300,000 less
then market value. People have actually asked if i'm negotiable on my
opening bid!  I do not believe my real buyer has arrived. I'm worried
that he will not. my other issue is that i have shown my house for 2
weeks on FSBO. I had a tremendous response. no offers but i had one
family come back this past friday and now they heard about my auction
and are waiting to see how we do sunday nite before they proceed with an
offer. I have another family coming back today for a 2nd showing that
has also seen it last week and does not know about my auction. i think
this will distract their real bid when they see the bid sheet with these
crazy low offers. We were made an offer before putting it on the market
for a price substantially higher then any bid but lower then what we
want and I would like to add that offer to the bid sheet. my hubby
thinks thats cheating. i think i am deceiving the buyers and will be
wasting their time and ours by leading them on with these low bids. I am
frustrated and beginning to fight with my husband. Please advise
quickly. Day 2 begins in 3 hours.
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From rapisardi at tmail.com  Sun Mar  1 11:19:32 2009
From: rapisardi at tmail.com (Gabe Rapisardi)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 11:19:32 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] Fw:  Where to advertise?
References: <1235871046.197C9FB1@ea27.dngr.org>
	<1235924199.78917EB@ff9.dngr.org>
Message-ID: <1235924375.969B3D1@ff9.dngr.org>

-----Original Message-----
From: Gabe Rapisardi <rapisardi at tmail.com>
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
CC: rapisardi at tmail.com
Subject: [5-DayForum] Where to advertise?
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 20:30:38 -0500

Hey Bill I've just bought your book and am in Virginia beach,Va. I'm 
very excited because realestate is my business I buy foreclosures and 
wholesale properties fix them up and sell them and I've never heard of 
this system before.  The subject property is worth low end 155k and high 
end 190k Im very excited about trying it on this property, however I've 
got a couple of questions about the process..

First maybe a dumb question but with the amount of traffic coming 
through my newly rehabbed property would you recommend taking shoes off 
to preserve the new carpet??

Second do the potential buyers place a bid on the sheat openly on 
saturday and sunday??

Third how in depth should I be when explaing this to bidders??

Fourth what would it take for you to come out to the property and 
oversee the process?? I have conects with the media if you'd like 
exposure!?

Fifth where should I advertise and is  129k to high of a starter  
advertising price??

Thankyou very much and I look forward to your reply!!

Gabriel Rapisardi
President Akute LLC
757-577-2902
Rapisardi at tmail.com
Gabe_rapisardi at yahoo.com
--rapisardi
--rapisardi

From dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com  Tue Mar  3 15:10:04 2009
From: dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com (Don Lynch)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 15:10:04 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] Please remove
Message-ID: <069819FC6A5E418E88F81BD5BC51FF7C@Main>

Please remove me from the forum email list.
Thank you

Donald C. Lynch
500 Smokey Hollow Drive
Waxhaw, NC 28173
(704) 843-1392 - Office
(704) 243-3971 - fax
(407) 257-7845 - cell
(800) 880-7845
(704) 843-8325 - home
dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/
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From bill at effros.com  Tue Mar  3 15:14:41 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 15:14:41 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] posting que in forum
In-Reply-To: <908734.29212.qm@web57313.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <908734.29212.qm@web57313.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49AD8FB1.1050401@effros.com>

Wendy,

Sorry, my bad.  On vacation.  Thought I had the Forum covered.  Wrong.

Catching up.

Bill Effros
List Administrator



wendy black wrote:
> I'd like to post a que in the forum and don't know how.
>  I have tried , but I am missing a step or something.
> Please walk me thru it.
> Thank you ,
>   Wendy
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
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From sterbert at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  3 17:07:00 2009
From: sterbert at yahoo.com (Steven Herbert)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 14:07:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [5-DayForum] running the sale
In-Reply-To: <972C5CEA75BCEB4DBF2D1F18FDE54B861A13C8@msgswbiadsm24.wellsfargo.com>
Message-ID: <588355.9919.qm@web30206.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


I would leave the offer out of the preliminary
process. Call them Sunday night when the round robing
bidding finally passes their offer. Let them then know
that someone offerred more, and would they like to
surpass that by $500.

Steven Herbert


--- ROBERT.ZUCKERMAN at wellsfargo.com wrote:

> hi we are currently running the sale and I am
> getting very discouraged.
> My ad is 1/2 the price i really would like, which is
> actually less then
> market value. I think almost everyone who has called
> and come to view
> really thinks that they have a chance at getting my
> house $300,000 less
> then market value. People have actually asked if i'm
> negotiable on my
> opening bid!  I do not believe my real buyer has
> arrived. I'm worried
> that he will not. my other issue is that i have
> shown my house for 2
> weeks on FSBO. I had a tremendous response. no
> offers but i had one
> family come back this past friday and now they heard
> about my auction
> and are waiting to see how we do sunday nite before
> they proceed with an
> offer. I have another family coming back today for a
> 2nd showing that
> has also seen it last week and does not know about
> my auction. i think
> this will distract their real bid when they see the
> bid sheet with these
> crazy low offers. We were made an offer before
> putting it on the market
> for a price substantially higher then any bid but
> lower then what we
> want and I would like to add that offer to the bid
> sheet. my hubby
> thinks thats cheating. i think i am deceiving the
> buyers and will be
> wasting their time and ours by leading them on with
> these low bids. I am
> frustrated and beginning to fight with my husband.
> Please advise
> quickly. Day 2 begins in 3 hours.
> > _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> 



      

From merrymcc at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 07:55:24 2009
From: merrymcc at gmail.com (Merry McConnell)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 07:55:24 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] House Inspection
Message-ID: <92c4cf3d0903040455y48cee63al639865a656af8e6f@mail.gmail.com>

Good Morning!

I understand the benefit to having my house inspected before the open house,
but I have
hardly any money left and if there's a way to have the buyer pay for the
inspection like in
a traditional sale, I would do that.

Is having the house pre-inspected a MUST?

A quick response would be appreciated because I have to call the inspector
this morning.

Thank you!

Merry
Louisville, KY
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From rosemarie-fred at mindspring.com  Wed Mar  4 09:04:37 2009
From: rosemarie-fred at mindspring.com (rosemarie-fred)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 09:04:37 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] House Inspection
References: <92c4cf3d0903040455y48cee63al639865a656af8e6f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AB448ECC9A5B460D8B168AD29137A862@rosemarifv6onv>

If you don't, you will have a contract contingent on inspection, and what if the buyer finds something they decide is a deal breaker? If you do, everyone bidding will know exactly what is wrong (and right!) and you can have a contract with no contingencies. I think it is essential.
Rosemarie
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Merry McConnell 
  To: 5-dayforum at howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 7:55 AM
  Subject: [5-DayForum] House Inspection


  Good Morning!

  I understand the benefit to having my house inspected before the open house, but I have
  hardly any money left and if there's a way to have the buyer pay for the inspection like in
  a traditional sale, I would do that.

  Is having the house pre-inspected a MUST?  

  A quick response would be appreciated because I have to call the inspector this morning.

  Thank you!

  Merry
  Louisville, KY



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  5-DayForum mailing list
  5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
  http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
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From real.estate.professor at hotmail.com  Wed Mar  4 09:33:36 2009
From: real.estate.professor at hotmail.com (Kyle Cascioli)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 08:33:36 -0600
Subject: [5-DayForum] House Inspection
In-Reply-To: <92c4cf3d0903040455y48cee63al639865a656af8e6f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <92c4cf3d0903040455y48cee63al639865a656af8e6f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU122-W15D10A045BCC0BE54D6BF3B4A70@phx.gbl>


Hi Merry:

 

The idea is that by "pre-inspecting" the property bidders should have a greater comfort level in bidding competitively for your property.

 

That said, we've found that most successful bidders who go to contract obtain their own inspections anyway.

 

If your home is over ten years old and you believe that it is dated and will appear in need of any deferred maintenance or repair, then you should obtain the "pre-inspection."  

 

On newer homes, model homes, and builder product, we do not obtain "pre-inspections."

 

Good luck!

 

Kyle Cascioli

www.AuctionByBuilder.com 

 


 


Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 07:55:24 -0500
From: merrymcc at gmail.com
To: 5-dayforum at howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Subject: [5-DayForum] House Inspection

Good Morning!

I understand the benefit to having my house inspected before the open house, but I have
hardly any money left and if there's a way to have the buyer pay for the inspection like in
a traditional sale, I would do that.

Is having the house pre-inspected a MUST?  

A quick response would be appreciated because I have to call the inspector this morning.

Thank you!

Merry
Louisville, KY

_________________________________________________________________
Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail?. 
http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme
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From bill at effros.com  Wed Mar  4 09:38:17 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 09:38:17 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] House Inspection
In-Reply-To: <AB448ECC9A5B460D8B168AD29137A862@rosemarifv6onv>
References: <92c4cf3d0903040455y48cee63al639865a656af8e6f@mail.gmail.com>
	<AB448ECC9A5B460D8B168AD29137A862@rosemarifv6onv>
Message-ID: <49AE9259.8010406@effros.com>

Thanks, Again, Rosemarie,

I'm back, 500 emails behind, and catching up.

We'll discuss on the list what happened over the past 2 weeks, and how 
to prevent it in the future.

Of course, you're right -- inspect first or you will get less for your 
home than you would get if everyone had the same confidence in the 
underlying value.

If you don't believe you will get 25 responses by Friday night SOLELY 
FROM newspaper advertising and free Internet Advertising -- then you 
know you can't get anywhere near what you are hoping for.  If that means 
you can't sell, give the keys to your house to the bank and walk away.

The 5-Day Method, employed exactly as outlined in the book, is the best 
way to get a current valuation on your home.  Waiting for Springtime, a 
bailout, or the cows to come home won't change the value of your home in 
any positive way.  It makes no sense for you to keep paying on a 
mortgage you will never be able to pay off--no matter what the interest 
rate.

Many homes will never be sold again.  Eventually they will be bulldozed 
into the ground.  This has already happened in "rust belt" cities.  Now 
it is coming to "sun belt" cities.

More on this to come.

Bill Effros
Author



rosemarie-fred wrote:
> If you don't, you will have a contract contingent on inspection, and 
> what if the buyer finds something they decide is a deal breaker? If 
> you do, everyone bidding will know exactly what is wrong (and right!) 
> and you can have a contract with no contingencies. I think it is 
> essential.
> Rosemarie
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     *From:* Merry McConnell <mailto:merrymcc at gmail.com>
>     *To:* 5-dayforum at howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>     <mailto:5-dayforum at howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>     *Sent:* Wednesday, March 04, 2009 7:55 AM
>     *Subject:* [5-DayForum] House Inspection
>
>     Good Morning!
>
>     I understand the benefit to having my house inspected before the
>     open house, but I have
>     hardly any money left and if there's a way to have the buyer pay
>     for the inspection like in
>     a traditional sale, I would do that.
>
>     Is having the house pre-inspected a MUST? 
>
>     A quick response would be appreciated because I have to call the
>     inspector this morning.
>
>     Thank you!
>
>     Merry
>     Louisville, KY
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     _______________________________________________
>     5-DayForum mailing list
>     5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>     http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
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From bill at effros.com  Wed Mar  4 09:49:32 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 09:49:32 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] House Inspection
In-Reply-To: <BLU122-W15D10A045BCC0BE54D6BF3B4A70@phx.gbl>
References: <92c4cf3d0903040455y48cee63al639865a656af8e6f@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU122-W15D10A045BCC0BE54D6BF3B4A70@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <49AE94FC.2080807@effros.com>

Kyle,

You are speaking from the perspective of a professional, not a 1 time 
home seller.  You know which new homes to stay away from.  You know what 
homes can sell for in your market at this time.  You can look at a house 
and know 95% of what an inspector will tell you.

People pay you to do this for them.  They are paying you instead of a 
home inspector.  Effectively, you are the inspector.

But private parties running 5-Day sales need input from qualified home 
inspectors.

Look at many of Home Inspector Terry Wigf??? 's comments from a few 
years ago in the archives.

A good home inspector can tell the seller more about the current value 
of a home than almost anyone else in the community prior to a 5-Day 
sale.  This is extremely valuable knowledge, and can save the seller 
more than the cost of an inspection if the seller has drastically 
over-estimated the current value of a home.

Bill Effros
Author



Kyle Cascioli wrote:
> Hi Merry:
>  
> The idea is that by "pre-inspecting" the property bidders should have 
> a greater comfort level in bidding competitively for your property.
>  
> That said, we've found that most successful bidders who go to contract 
> obtain their own inspections anyway.
>  
> If your home is over ten years old and you believe that it is dated 
> and will appear in need of any deferred maintenance or repair, then 
> you should obtain the "pre-inspection."  
>  
> On newer homes, model homes, and builder product, we do not obtain 
> "pre-inspections."
>  
> Good luck!
>  
> Kyle Cascioli
> www.AuctionByBuilder.com <http://www.auctionbybuilder.com/>
>  
>
>  
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 07:55:24 -0500
> From: merrymcc at gmail.com
> To: 5-dayforum at howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> Subject: [5-DayForum] House Inspection
>
> Good Morning!
>
> I understand the benefit to having my house inspected before the open 
> house, but I have
> hardly any money left and if there's a way to have the buyer pay for 
> the inspection like in
> a traditional sale, I would do that.
>
> Is having the house pre-inspected a MUST? 
>
> A quick response would be appreciated because I have to call the 
> inspector this morning.
>
> Thank you!
>
> Merry
> Louisville, KY
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for 
> Hotmail?. See how. 
> <http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme> 
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
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From bill at effros.com  Wed Mar  4 10:22:29 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 10:22:29 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] Join the List
Message-ID: <49AE9CB5.6030607@effros.com>

While I was on vacation I could not clear email from new members who had 
not posted previously.  Some people who are trying to post remain in limbo.

If you think you may ever need a fast answer to anything on your mind, 
join the list before you get in trouble.

Your name and email address are never bought/sold/bartered or anything else.

If you post to the list and your email address shows up, people can 
"mine" the list to obtain your address and send you unsolicited mail, 
however this is illegal.

If you never post, your name never appears anywhere anyone can get hold 
of it.  (So don't post "please take me off the list" if this is what you 
are worried about.)

The controls built into the list work beautifully, and have been 
perfected over the years.

The archives are open, and daily mail is posted to the web site as soon 
as it is received.

If you are getting too much daily email, go into digest mode.

If that is still too much email, go into vacation mode.

You can enter and leave the list as often as you like, however, every 
time you leave you must be re-approved before you can post directly to 
the list without moderator approval.

So, the best thing to do, if you think you will ever want to post to the 
list, is to post an introductory email telling other list members who 
you are and why you are here, that I can approve.  Then change your 
subscription around to suit your needs, going into vacation mode rather 
than leaving the list once you have been cleared to post to the list.

More on this to come.

Bill Effros
List Administrator




From michaelchaney33 at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 10:23:21 2009
From: michaelchaney33 at gmail.com (michaelchaney33 at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 15:23:21 +0000
Subject: [5-DayForum] Join the List
In-Reply-To: <49AE9CB5.6030607@effros.com>
References: <49AE9CB5.6030607@effros.com>
Message-ID: <1685537011-1236180201-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-805588558-@bxe1191.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Please remove me from list. 


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>

Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 10:22:29 
To: 5-DayForum<5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Subject: [5-DayForum] Join the List


While I was on vacation I could not clear email from new members who had 
not posted previously.  Some people who are trying to post remain in limbo.

If you think you may ever need a fast answer to anything on your mind, 
join the list before you get in trouble.

Your name and email address are never bought/sold/bartered or anything else.

If you post to the list and your email address shows up, people can 
"mine" the list to obtain your address and send you unsolicited mail, 
however this is illegal.

If you never post, your name never appears anywhere anyone can get hold 
of it.  (So don't post "please take me off the list" if this is what you 
are worried about.)

The controls built into the list work beautifully, and have been 
perfected over the years.

The archives are open, and daily mail is posted to the web site as soon 
as it is received.

If you are getting too much daily email, go into digest mode.

If that is still too much email, go into vacation mode.

You can enter and leave the list as often as you like, however, every 
time you leave you must be re-approved before you can post directly to 
the list without moderator approval.

So, the best thing to do, if you think you will ever want to post to the 
list, is to post an introductory email telling other list members who 
you are and why you are here, that I can approve.  Then change your 
subscription around to suit your needs, going into vacation mode rather 
than leaving the list once you have been cleared to post to the list.

More on this to come.

Bill Effros
List Administrator



_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum


From bill at effros.com  Wed Mar  4 10:32:54 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 10:32:54 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] How to Unsubscribe
In-Reply-To: <4424efe20901240127r1ba45164h70553f4a8513c3d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4424efe20901240127r1ba45164h70553f4a8513c3d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49AE9F26.6060104@effros.com>

25 to 30 people a day subscribe and unsubscribe.

If you are having a problem, it is probably on your own computer.  The
confirmation notice is probably going into your junk, trash or spam folder.

Without confirmation that you are you, and that you wish to be
subscribed or unsubscribed, the Forum gets spammed by people who aren't
you, phishing for information about you that we never release.

When you want to unsubscribe from the 5-Day Forum you must do it for
yourself.

It is the reverse of the process you used to subscribe:

1.  Go to the 5-DayForum website:

www.5-DayForum.com

2.  Click on the blue word "unsubscribe" on the left side of the home page.

3.  Fill in the email address of your subscription in the box provided.

4.  Follow the instructions.

Bill Effros
List Administrator




From bill at effros.com  Wed Mar  4 10:46:35 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 10:46:35 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] running the sale
In-Reply-To: <588355.9919.qm@web30206.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <588355.9919.qm@web30206.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49AEA25B.90204@effros.com>

When you reinvent this wheel you get into problems just like this.  
Happens every time.

The third edition of the book is not solely my idea.  It is the combined 
wisdom of literally thousands of people who have reached out to me over 
the past 20 years to share their experiences.

All I did was write down what worked and what didn't.

You can't learn the current value of your home if you mix and match 
techniques.

You have no idea of what your home is currently worth if you fail to get 
25 responses in 3 days from 2 ads, one in a newspaper and the other on a 
free Internet site.

Some homes have no value in the current market.

Almost all homes are worth substantially less than they were once worth.

In some markets speculators are the only buyers. 

Some homes will never be sold again.

If you run the 5-Day Method BY THE BOOK you can know in 3 days where you 
stand.

Bill Effros
Author



Steven Herbert wrote:
> I would leave the offer out of the preliminary
> process. Call them Sunday night when the round robing
> bidding finally passes their offer. Let them then know
> that someone offerred more, and would they like to
> surpass that by $500.
>
> Steven Herbert
>
>
> --- ROBERT.ZUCKERMAN at wellsfargo.com wrote:
>
>   
>> hi we are currently running the sale and I am
>> getting very discouraged.
>> My ad is 1/2 the price i really would like, which is
>> actually less then
>> market value. I think almost everyone who has called
>> and come to view
>> really thinks that they have a chance at getting my
>> house $300,000 less
>> then market value. People have actually asked if i'm
>> negotiable on my
>> opening bid!  I do not believe my real buyer has
>> arrived. I'm worried
>> that he will not. my other issue is that i have
>> shown my house for 2
>> weeks on FSBO. I had a tremendous response. no
>> offers but i had one
>> family come back this past friday and now they heard
>> about my auction
>> and are waiting to see how we do sunday nite before
>> they proceed with an
>> offer. I have another family coming back today for a
>> 2nd showing that
>> has also seen it last week and does not know about
>> my auction. i think
>> this will distract their real bid when they see the
>> bid sheet with these
>> crazy low offers. We were made an offer before
>> putting it on the market
>> for a price substantially higher then any bid but
>> lower then what we
>> want and I would like to add that offer to the bid
>> sheet. my hubby
>> thinks thats cheating. i think i am deceiving the
>> buyers and will be
>> wasting their time and ours by leading them on with
>> these low bids. I am
>> frustrated and beginning to fight with my husband.
>> Please advise
>> quickly. Day 2 begins in 3 hours.
>>     
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>       
>> 5-DayForum mailing list
>> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>>
>>     
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
>
>
>
>       
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>   
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From bill at effros.com  Wed Mar  4 10:53:53 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 10:53:53 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] Important News about Advertising (Tacoma, WA)
In-Reply-To: <240491.37524.qm@web30204.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <240491.37524.qm@web30204.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49AEA411.1000205@effros.com>

Steven,

Your home is not currently worth anywhere near 2 times the amount you 
put in your ad.  That is what the 5-Day Method is telling you.  This is 
not a failure, it is knowledge.

What are you going to do with it?

Forget about people fishing around for a more realistic price.

If you can't sell it for what it's worth, don't pretend you're going to 
sell it all.

Keep it, or give it back to the bank.

Bill Effros
Author



Steven Herbert wrote:
> Nope,
>
> I'm pretty disappointed. It was a hard decision to
> make. I didn't want to put all my helpers through that
> (free babysitting of my 3 small kids also) only to set
> myself up for a failure of sorts. 
>
> I talked to several of the contacts though--many of
> them said they were interested in a future open house.
> Someone gave me feedback on my ad, saying I should
> have been more specific about the location (not the
> address so much as the neighborhood's name--which
> would have been a good selling point).
>
> So, my idea is to try to run another ad, Sooner than
> later, before I lose these fish (and before my house
> gets wrecked again by the daily grind w/3 kids). I'm
> concerned about getting my help coordinated all over
> again though on short notice.
>
> I'll take pointers from anyone at this point.
>
> STeven 
>
>
>
> --- Aaron Stokes <Aaron at eurofixonline.com> wrote:
>
>   
>> Steven, did your sale go through? Did you get enough
>> contacts?
>>
>>
>>
>> Aaron >
>>     
> _______________________________________________
>   
>> 5-DayForum mailing list
>> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>>
>>     
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
>
>
>
>       
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>   
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From real.estate.professor at hotmail.com  Wed Mar  4 14:16:05 2009
From: real.estate.professor at hotmail.com (Kyle Cascioli)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 13:16:05 -0600
Subject: [5-DayForum] House Inspection
In-Reply-To: <49AE94FC.2080807@effros.com>
References: <92c4cf3d0903040455y48cee63al639865a656af8e6f@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU122-W15D10A045BCC0BE54D6BF3B4A70@phx.gbl>
	<49AE94FC.2080807@effros.com>
Message-ID: <BLU122-W43DFBA66B52C354E830E4B4A70@phx.gbl>


Hi Bill:

 

Glad to have you back.

 

As most always, you are exactly right!

 

Cheers, Kyle
 


Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 09:49:32 -0500
From: bill at effros.com
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] House Inspection

Kyle,

You are speaking from the perspective of a professional, not a 1 time home seller.  You know which new homes to stay away from.  You know what homes can sell for in your market at this time.  You can look at a house and know 95% of what an inspector will tell you.

People pay you to do this for them.  They are paying you instead of a home inspector.  Effectively, you are the inspector.

But private parties running 5-Day sales need input from qualified home inspectors.

Look at many of Home Inspector Terry Wigf??? 's comments from a few years ago in the archives.

A good home inspector can tell the seller more about the current value of a home than almost anyone else in the community prior to a 5-Day sale.  This is extremely valuable knowledge, and can save the seller more than the cost of an inspection if the seller has drastically over-estimated the current value of a home.

Bill Effros
Author



Kyle Cascioli wrote: 


Hi Merry:
 
The idea is that by "pre-inspecting" the property bidders should have a greater comfort level in bidding competitively for your property.
 
That said, we've found that most successful bidders who go to contract obtain their own inspections anyway.
 
If your home is over ten years old and you believe that it is dated and will appear in need of any deferred maintenance or repair, then you should obtain the "pre-inspection."  
 
On newer homes, model homes, and builder product, we do not obtain "pre-inspections."
 
Good luck!
 
Kyle Cascioli
www.AuctionByBuilder.com 
 

 


Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 07:55:24 -0500
From: merrymcc at gmail.com
To: 5-dayforum at howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Subject: [5-DayForum] House Inspection

Good Morning!

I understand the benefit to having my house inspected before the open house, but I have
hardly any money left and if there's a way to have the buyer pay for the inspection like in
a traditional sale, I would do that.

Is having the house pre-inspected a MUST?  

A quick response would be appreciated because I have to call the inspector this morning.

Thank you!

Merry
Louisville, KY



Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail?. See how. 
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http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
  
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From bill at effros.com  Wed Mar  4 16:43:33 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 16:43:33 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] It's TIME! to Sell or Walk
In-Reply-To: <92c4cf3d0903030917i60c1d7d8ga6693693956e2d09@mail.gmail.com>
References: <92c4cf3d0903030917i60c1d7d8ga6693693956e2d09@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49AEF605.7040909@effros.com>

Merry,

I appended your earlier reply to Danielle for those who didn't see it.

Please keep us posted on what happens for as long as possible.  I believe you have come down to the right 2 possibilities -- sell or walk.

I honestly believe it won't make any difference which you do in terms of your financial well-being and future ability to get credit.

I think that the fact you are making this extra effort to resolve your problem as equitably as possible speaks volumes about your character.

Hold on to all your paperwork.  The ads you place, the inspection report, the home description, the bidding sheet, the round-robin log, the ultimate disposition -- everything!

I think you will find these documents extremely useful when you are ready to seek new credit in what will surely be a new world.

If you do not get 25 responses by Friday night from 2 ads in the places most people advertise in Louisville, stop the sale immediately.  You will have many more options at this point than you will have if you proceed and fail to come up with the highest possible bid at this time.

I will be watching for you on this list, and will try to get back to you as quickly as possible.

I think you are doing exactly the right thing in exactly the right way.  It is sad for everyone that the economy has taken this turn, but we can't change that.  What we can do is to extricate ourselves as quickly as possible in the most honorable way available.

You are doing that, and I hope you will stay with us long enough so others can see how it turns out.

Bill Effros
Author


Danielle,

Thanks for that feedback...

I do have an attorney and have gone over the consequences of
foreclosure/bankruptcy and that's why I want to sell so that I can pay
my debt.  The short sale doesn't interest me because I would still
have my debt.  Even though the market is what it is, I believe that
selling is my one chance to pay (most of) my debt and at least start
over without bad credit, lack of dignity, etc.

I was actually advised that with my situation, walking away from
everything is the best short-term resolve...but not so good long term.

Thanks again, Danielle!

Merry



Merry McConnell wrote:
> Hello Everyone...
>
> I have just sent in my newspaper ad for my 5-Day Sale in Louisville, 
> KY.  My friend came up from Florida to help me and we're getting 
> everything accomplished (by the book)...I'll keep you posted because 
> I'm in a situation to SELL or walk...and I'm going through the entire 
> process with complete submission to the system, no matter how scary it 
> is.  I'm hoping to be able to encourage everyone out there who wants 
> or needs to use this method, because I think it makes perfect sense.
>
> More later!
>
> Merry
>
> -- 
> IF YOU THINK YOU CAN OR YOU THINK YOU CAN'T...YOU'RE RIGHT!  Henry Ford
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
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From merrymcc at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 21:25:17 2009
From: merrymcc at gmail.com (Merry McConnell)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 21:25:17 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] It's TIME! to Sell or Walk
In-Reply-To: <49AEF605.7040909@effros.com>
References: <92c4cf3d0903030917i60c1d7d8ga6693693956e2d09@mail.gmail.com>
	<49AEF605.7040909@effros.com>
Message-ID: <92c4cf3d0903041825w6e9ca0c4kdebd2fb6d47a27c@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Bill & Everyone!

Thank you for that wonderful, encouraging and uplifting e-mail.  It's
Wednesday evening and
I have 13 names on my telephone log already.  Most are from the Courier
Journal Newspaper
ad and a couple from Craigslist.  I posted on Zillow.com and Postlets also.

I will look forward to keeping you posted on how this unfolds, with so much
appreciation.

Thank you!

Merry

On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 4:43 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:

>  Merry,
>
> I appended your earlier reply to Danielle for those who didn't see it.
>
> Please keep us posted on what happens for as long as possible.  I believe you have come down to the right 2 possibilities -- sell or walk.
>
> I honestly believe it won't make any difference which you do in terms of your financial well-being and future ability to get credit.
>
> I think that the fact you are making this extra effort to resolve your problem as equitably as possible speaks volumes about your character.
>
> Hold on to all your paperwork.  The ads you place, the inspection report, the home description, the bidding sheet, the round-robin log, the ultimate disposition -- everything!
>
> I think you will find these documents extremely useful when you are ready to seek new credit in what will surely be a new world.
>
> If you do not get 25 responses by Friday night from 2 ads in the places most people advertise in Louisville, stop the sale immediately.  You will have many more options at this point than you will have if you proceed and fail to come up with the highest possible bid at this time.
>
> I will be watching for you on this list, and will try to get back to you as quickly as possible.
>
> I think you are doing exactly the right thing in exactly the right way.  It is sad for everyone that the economy has taken this turn, but we can't change that.  What we can do is to extricate ourselves as quickly as possible in the most honorable way available.
>
> You are doing that, and I hope you will stay with us long enough so others can see how it turns out.
>
> Bill Effros
> Author
>
>
> Danielle,
>
> Thanks for that feedback...
>
> I do have an attorney and have gone over the consequences of
> foreclosure/bankruptcy and that's why I want to sell so that I can pay
> my debt.  The short sale doesn't interest me because I would still
> have my debt.  Even though the market is what it is, I believe that
> selling is my one chance to pay (most of) my debt and at least start
> over without bad credit, lack of dignity, etc.
>
> I was actually advised that with my situation, walking away from
> everything is the best short-term resolve...but not so good long term.
>
> Thanks again, Danielle!
>
> Merry
>
>
>
> Merry McConnell wrote:
>
> Hello Everyone...
>
> I have just sent in my newspaper ad for my 5-Day Sale in Louisville, KY.
> My friend came up from Florida to help me and we're getting everything
> accomplished (by the book)...I'll keep you posted because I'm in a situation
> to SELL or walk...and I'm going through the entire process with complete
> submission to the system, no matter how scary it is.  I'm hoping to be able
> to encourage everyone out there who wants or needs to use this method,
> because I think it makes perfect sense.
>
> More later!
>
> Merry
>
> --
> IF YOU THINK YOU CAN OR YOU THINK YOU CAN'T...YOU'RE RIGHT!  Henry Ford
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.comhttp://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>


-- 
IF YOU THINK YOU CAN OR YOU THINK YOU CAN'T...YOU'RE RIGHT!  Henry Ford
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From bobhunt72 at gmail.com  Sun Mar  1 09:52:36 2009
From: bobhunt72 at gmail.com (Robert Hunt)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 06:52:36 -0800
Subject: [5-DayForum] to post this list
Message-ID: <21c2d9d40903010652j5daf1915readdab5539496dc6@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Bill, just following your email request. Thanks, Bob

From bill at effros.com  Thu Mar  5 07:31:37 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 07:31:37 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] It's TIME! to Sell or Walk
In-Reply-To: <92c4cf3d0903041825w6e9ca0c4kdebd2fb6d47a27c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <92c4cf3d0903030917i60c1d7d8ga6693693956e2d09@mail.gmail.com>	<49AEF605.7040909@effros.com>
	<92c4cf3d0903041825w6e9ca0c4kdebd2fb6d47a27c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49AFC629.80202@effros.com>

Merry,

It looks like you are well on your way.  The response to your starting 
price indicates you have a reasonable understanding of the current value 
of your home.

Now you must be clear with everyone who responds that you plan to go to 
the bank on Monday morning with the high bid in hand and find out what 
the bank wants to do.  You will either sell or walk.  The rest is up to 
the high bidder and the bank.

Do not offer to "throw something into the pot".

Stop making mortgage payments.

Let us know what happens.

Bill Effros
Author





Merry McConnell wrote:
> Hello Bill & Everyone!
>
> Thank you for that wonderful, encouraging and uplifting e-mail.  It's 
> Wednesday evening and
> I have 13 names on my telephone log already.  Most are from the 
> Courier Journal Newspaper
> ad and a couple from Craigslist.  I posted on Zillow.com and Postlets 
> also.
>
> I will look forward to keeping you posted on how this unfolds, with so 
> much appreciation.
>
> Thank you!
>
> Merry
>
> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 4:43 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com 
> <mailto:bill at effros.com>> wrote:
>
>     Merry,
>
>     I appended your earlier reply to Danielle for those who didn't see it.
>
>     Please keep us posted on what happens for as long as possible.  I believe you have come down to the right 2 possibilities -- sell or walk.
>
>     I honestly believe it won't make any difference which you do in terms of your financial well-being and future ability to get credit.
>
>     I think that the fact you are making this extra effort to resolve your problem as equitably as possible speaks volumes about your character.
>
>     Hold on to all your paperwork.  The ads you place, the inspection report, the home description, the bidding sheet, the round-robin log, the ultimate disposition -- everything!
>
>     I think you will find these documents extremely useful when you are ready to seek new credit in what will surely be a new world.
>
>     If you do not get 25 responses by Friday night from 2 ads in the places most people advertise in Louisville, stop the sale immediately.  You will have many more options at this point than you will have if you proceed and fail to come up with the highest possible bid at this time.
>
>     I will be watching for you on this list, and will try to get back to you as quickly as possible.
>
>     I think you are doing exactly the right thing in exactly the right way.  It is sad for everyone that the economy has taken this turn, but we can't change that.  What we can do is to extricate ourselves as quickly as possible in the most honorable way available.
>
>     You are doing that, and I hope you will stay with us long enough so others can see how it turns out.
>
>     Bill Effros
>     Author
>
>
>     Danielle,
>
>     Thanks for that feedback...
>
>     I do have an attorney and have gone over the consequences of
>     foreclosure/bankruptcy and that's why I want to sell so that I can pay
>     my debt.  The short sale doesn't interest me because I would still
>     have my debt.  Even though the market is what it is, I believe that
>     selling is my one chance to pay (most of) my debt and at least start
>     over without bad credit, lack of dignity, etc.
>
>     I was actually advised that with my situation, walking away from
>     everything is the best short-term resolve...but not so good long term.
>
>     Thanks again, Danielle!
>
>     Merry
>
>
>
>     Merry McConnell wrote:
>>     Hello Everyone...
>>
>>     I have just sent in my newspaper ad for my 5-Day Sale in
>>     Louisville, KY.  My friend came up from Florida to help me and
>>     we're getting everything accomplished (by the book)...I'll keep
>>     you posted because I'm in a situation to SELL or walk...and I'm
>>     going through the entire process with complete submission to the
>>     system, no matter how scary it is.  I'm hoping to be able to
>>     encourage everyone out there who wants or needs to use this
>>     method, because I think it makes perfect sense.
>>
>>     More later!
>>
>>     Merry
>>
>>     -- 
>>     IF YOU THINK YOU CAN OR YOU THINK YOU CAN'T...YOU'RE RIGHT!
>>      Henry Ford
>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     5-DayForum mailing list
>>     5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>>     http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>       
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     5-DayForum mailing list
>     5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>     <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>     http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> IF YOU THINK YOU CAN OR YOU THINK YOU CAN'T...YOU'RE RIGHT!  Henry Ford
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
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From hollymac2 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  5 09:54:34 2009
From: hollymac2 at yahoo.com (hollymac2 at yahoo.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 06:54:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [5-DayForum] What happened???
Message-ID: <3311.71019.qm@web53601.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


Hello - I just conducted my first 5-day sale and it failed miserably.? I was very disappointed and desperate - have to sell.? I would like to understand what went wrong.
?
I did pull the 25 responses basically off of my newspaper add alone (couldn't figure out how to get Craigs list from continuously deleting my add...).? And I did NOT include multiple responses from the same phone number, so I did get the 25 unique responses.
?
Still, my traffic was very light, and the only bids offered were from investors (who were out the first round) or people who really believed they could get the property for 50 - 60% of FMV.
?
Please help me debrief.? I have a sense the technique can work, I just don't know what happened in my case.
?
My property is a fix and flip.? The property is in a nice neighborhood of 50 year old cookie cutter brick ranches that are low tier housing (that is - below median price in the Denver Metro area - Colorado).? The neighborhood is good and desireable (not gang stuff etc)?has gotten a lot of investors (like me!) in fixing and flipping.? The week before my sale, an exact model similarly?remodeled, sold without consessions for $145,000.? The comps of the exact model, similarly remodeled have sold within days to less than a month for $138,000 - $149,000.? Mine was advertised at $74,500 and as I said I was satisfied I got the needed calls.
?
What happened?
?
Dismayed - and now more desperate than ever...
?
Holly
?
?
?
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From rcutcher at austin.rr.com  Thu Mar  5 10:55:17 2009
From: rcutcher at austin.rr.com (RC Cutcher)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 09:55:17 -0600
Subject: [5-DayForum]  What happened???
Message-ID: <003101c99daa$c84424c0$0201a8c0@RCCutcher>

Hi Holly,

There are a couple of Wildcards in the deck of a fix and flip.  

Those who did the basic research on your property would know that you fixed it and that you want to make a profit off of them....  no investor opportunity there for someone. 

Those who do no research on your property and do not have a Realtor giving FMV are pretty much stuck with your list price for assuming a  value.

Your own market analysis seemed to include  just a few comparables.  So you can't really take your logic and make a very strong case about FMV.  

But every subdivision can have a bad day at the plate and each home strike out on any given weekend.  People don't always conform to systematic sales techniques. It is often a case where a buyer begins to think something in the water is kinda sorta bad, and nothing erodes the playing field like a good dose of fear in the mix. 

There are lots of good techniques to sell a house fast. Keep the faith, and your door will swing open.

RC Cutcher
Realtor, ABR
Austin Texas Homes, LLC
www.austintexashomes.com
512-848-4449

The Short Sale/Foreclosure Workshop
Trec. Prov. No. 0623
Course No. 7436
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From bill at effros.com  Thu Mar  5 11:25:22 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 11:25:22 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] What happened???
In-Reply-To: <3311.71019.qm@web53601.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <3311.71019.qm@web53601.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49AFFCF2.9050906@effros.com>

Holly,

Your home is no longer worth $138,000 -- $149,000.

You can't sell it for that at this time, or you would already have done so.

The 5-Day Method does not change the market, it just lets you know what 
it is at the current time.

Most of the buyers in the $138,000 -- $149,000 market were speculators, 
just like you.  And, just like you, they got hurt because the market 
went down.  They all are looking to sell, and none of them has plans to 
buy any more homes any time soon.  So there are fewer buyers, more homes 
in foreclosure, more homes getting vandalized and torn down as 
nuisances, fewer low income people with jobs...and ever lower selling 
prices.

The good news is that your starting price of $74,500 drew 25 responses.  
That means that there are still enough people out there actively seeking 
to buy your home for what it is currently worth.  (In some communities 
it is now impossible to get 25 responses at any price--taxes and 
insurance for one  year are more than anyone would be willing to give 
for the house.)

Watch what happens to Merry this weekend.  You, also, must either sell 
or walk.

If you decide to try the 5-Day Method again, start your home at 
$49,500.  Tell everyone that you will either sell it to the high bidder, 
or simply walk away from it if the bank won't take the high bidder's offer.

Banish the words "Fair Market Value" and "FMV" from your vocabulary.  By 
definition, the most you can get for your home in the current market is 
the "Fair Market Value".  There is no such thing as "50%-60% of FMV", 
and no one can possibly establish such a ratio.

If you let buyers know you have a "target price" you won't sell below, 
you won't get it in this market, and 5-Day Buyers won't bid as high as 
they would bid if they knew you were actually going to sell to the high 
bidder Sunday night.

They all know you won't sell Sunday night, and you will have to change 
your "target price" and sell for less -- whether you know it or not.

Again, let's all watch what happens to Merry.  It sounds like you're in 
the same boat.  While everyone cheerfully notes that "a rising tide 
lifts all boats" nobody wants to hear the corollary -- "a falling tide 
lowers all boats". 

I think that is what we are all seeing at this time.

Bill Effros
Author



hollymac2 at yahoo.com wrote:
> Hello - I just conducted my first 5-day sale and it failed miserably.  
> I was very disappointed and desperate - have to sell.  I would like to 
> understand what went wrong.
>  
> I did pull the 25 responses basically off of my newspaper add alone 
> (couldn't figure out how to get Craigs list from continuously deleting 
> my add...).  And I did NOT include multiple responses from the same 
> phone number, so I did get the 25 unique responses.
>  
> Still, my traffic was very light, and the only bids offered were from 
> investors (who were out the first round) or people who really believed 
> they could get the property for 50 - 60% of FMV.
>  
> Please help me debrief.  I have a sense the technique can work, I just 
> don't know what happened in my case.
>  
> My property is a fix and flip.  The property is in a nice neighborhood 
> of 50 year old cookie cutter brick ranches that are low tier housing 
> (that is - below median price in the Denver Metro area - Colorado).  
> The neighborhood is good and desireable (not gang stuff etc) has 
> gotten a lot of investors (like me!) in fixing and flipping.  The week 
> before my sale, an exact model similarly remodeled, sold without 
> consessions for $145,000.  The comps of the exact model, similarly 
> remodeled have sold within days to less than a month for $138,000 - 
> $149,000.  Mine was advertised at $74,500 and as I said I was 
> satisfied I got the needed calls.
>  
> What happened?
>  
> Dismayed - and now more desperate than ever...
>  
> Holly
>  
>  
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
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From hollymac2 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  5 13:16:39 2009
From: hollymac2 at yahoo.com (Holly MacIntyre)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 10:16:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [5-DayForum] What happened???
In-Reply-To: <49AFFCF2.9050906@effros.com>
Message-ID: <839502.46819.qm@web53610.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hi Bill - Appreciate your thoughts and response on my "case."? 
?
I'm a bit reluctant to completely accept your conclusions - here's why.? I contacted a RE Broker who said that he was able to get a similar property under contract in 8 days (similar to my situation, property not moving for no good reason when properties are selling...).? His caveat?? He's highly "connected" in the Hispanic community with both realtors and mortgage brokers.? We shall see - I listed with him and he thinks he can get it done in two weeks.? He thinks it will go for $134 - 136k.
?
But it raises the question - in some neighborhoods could that be an issue?? I must confess that one of my callers was Spanish speaking and was very disappointed that I "no habla espanol..."? He did not show up at my bid sale.
?
Have you factored in this sort of issue?
?
Thanks again for your input.
?
Holly

--- On Thu, 3/5/09, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:

From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???
To: "How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days" <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Date: Thursday, March 5, 2009, 4:25 PM


Holly,

Your home is no longer worth $138,000 -- $149,000.

You can't sell it for that at this time, or you would already have done so.

The 5-Day Method does not change the market, it just lets you know what it is at the current time.

Most of the buyers in the $138,000 -- $149,000 market were speculators, just like you.? And, just like you, they got hurt because the market went down.? They all are looking to sell, and none of them has plans to buy any more homes any time soon.? So there are fewer buyers, more homes in foreclosure, more homes getting vandalized and torn down as nuisances, fewer low income people with jobs...and ever lower selling prices.

The good news is that your starting price of $74,500 drew 25 responses.? That means that there are still enough people out there actively seeking to buy your home for what it is currently worth.? (In some communities it is now impossible to get 25 responses at any price--taxes and insurance for one? year are more than anyone would be willing to give for the house.)

Watch what happens to Merry this weekend.? You, also, must either sell or walk.

If you decide to try the 5-Day Method again, start your home at $49,500.? Tell everyone that you will either sell it to the high bidder, or simply walk away from it if the bank won't take the high bidder's offer.

Banish the words "Fair Market Value" and "FMV" from your vocabulary.? By definition, the most you can get for your home in the current market is the "Fair Market Value".? There is no such thing as "50%-60% of FMV", and no one can possibly establish such a ratio.

If you let buyers know you have a "target price" you won't sell below, you won't get it in this market, and 5-Day Buyers won't bid as high as they would bid if they knew you were actually going to sell to the high bidder Sunday night.

They all know you won't sell Sunday night, and you will have to change your "target price" and sell for less -- whether you know it or not.

Again, let's all watch what happens to Merry.? It sounds like you're in the same boat.? While everyone cheerfully notes that "a rising tide lifts all boats" nobody wants to hear the corollary -- "a falling tide lowers all boats".? 

I think that is what we are all seeing at this time.

Bill Effros
Author



hollymac2 at yahoo.com wrote: 






Hello - I just conducted my first 5-day sale and it failed miserably.? I was very disappointed and desperate - have to sell.? I would like to understand what went wrong.
?
I did pull the 25 responses basically off of my newspaper add alone (couldn't figure out how to get Craigs list from continuously deleting my add...).? And I did NOT include multiple responses from the same phone number, so I did get the 25 unique responses.
?
Still, my traffic was very light, and the only bids offered were from investors (who were out the first round) or people who really believed they could get the property for 50 - 60% of FMV.
?
Please help me debrief.? I have a sense the technique can work, I just don't know what happened in my case.
?
My property is a fix and flip.? The property is in a nice neighborhood of 50 year old cookie cutter brick ranches that are low tier housing (that is - below median price in the Denver Metro area - Colorado).? The neighborhood is good and desireable (not gang stuff etc)?has gotten a lot of investors (like me!) in fixing and flipping.? The week before my sale, an exact model similarly?remodeled, sold without consessions for $145,000.? The comps of the exact model, similarly remodeled have sold within days to less than a month for $138,000 - $149,000.? Mine was advertised at $74,500 and as I said I was satisfied I got the needed calls.
?
What happened?
?
Dismayed - and now more desperate than ever...
?
Holly
?
?
?
_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
  _______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
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From real.estate.professor at hotmail.com  Thu Mar  5 13:17:25 2009
From: real.estate.professor at hotmail.com (Kyle Cascioli)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 12:17:25 -0600
Subject: [5-DayForum] What happened???
In-Reply-To: <3311.71019.qm@web53601.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <3311.71019.qm@web53601.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BLU122-W325CE82EE3623D26D9B660B4A40@phx.gbl>


Hi Holly:

 

I agree with RC and Bill ...

 

Since the October stock market implosion we've seen the qualified buyer pool shrink considerably.  You now need a 720 FICO score to get a loan.  Cash is coveted!

 

Buyer's are only making offers on properties that they believe they can't get hurt on and expecting to see their acquisition property go down in value post-sale.  By how much is anyone's guess, but buyer's are being very conservative and defensive.

 

We are conducting our first builder 5 Day Sale here in Denver this weekend on 4 selected loft units, and you are welcome to come by and observe if you like.

 

www.DenverLoftsAuction.com 

 

Hang in there.

 

Kyle Cascioli

www.AuctionByBuilder.com 

www.AuctionBySeller.com 

www.AuctionByAgent.com 
 


Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 06:54:34 -0800
From: hollymac2 at yahoo.com
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Subject: [5-DayForum] What happened???







Hello - I just conducted my first 5-day sale and it failed miserably.  I was very disappointed and desperate - have to sell.  I would like to understand what went wrong.
 
I did pull the 25 responses basically off of my newspaper add alone (couldn't figure out how to get Craigs list from continuously deleting my add...).  And I did NOT include multiple responses from the same phone number, so I did get the 25 unique responses.
 
Still, my traffic was very light, and the only bids offered were from investors (who were out the first round) or people who really believed they could get the property for 50 - 60% of FMV.
 
Please help me debrief.  I have a sense the technique can work, I just don't know what happened in my case.
 
My property is a fix and flip.  The property is in a nice neighborhood of 50 year old cookie cutter brick ranches that are low tier housing (that is - below median price in the Denver Metro area - Colorado).  The neighborhood is good and desireable (not gang stuff etc) has gotten a lot of investors (like me!) in fixing and flipping.  The week before my sale, an exact model similarly remodeled, sold without consessions for $145,000.  The comps of the exact model, similarly remodeled have sold within days to less than a month for $138,000 - $149,000.  Mine was advertised at $74,500 and as I said I was satisfied I got the needed calls.
 
What happened?
 
Dismayed - and now more desperate than ever...
 
Holly
 
 
 
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live?: Life without walls.
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_allup_1a_explore_032009
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From lbicon at aol.com  Thu Mar  5 14:05:38 2009
From: lbicon at aol.com (lbicon at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 14:05:38 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] What happened???
In-Reply-To: <BLU122-W325CE82EE3623D26D9B660B4A40@phx.gbl>
References: <3311.71019.qm@web53601.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<BLU122-W325CE82EE3623D26D9B660B4A40@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <8CB6BDC80ED47E4-8C8-4C7@WEBMAIL-MA01.sysops.aol.com>

Holly,

I have been using a modified version of the?5 day method for about 5 years now. I have been very successful using the method. I am a Realtor/Loan Officer?as well as a RE Investor. My success ratio using the method has suffered lately because bidders are not as?willing to compete with each other. Recently, I had a failed best bidder sale in Vista, Ca. The property is?good condition and priced at or slightly below "Bank Onwed" properties. It took a few weeks on the MLS but I now have two buyers in counter offers on the same property. The 5 day method depends on a sense of?urgency that just does not exist in todays market. Anyone that is trying to sell a home today should use all means available to them to market the property and not exclude any potential buyers.?

The market in San Diego is starting to turn around. There are multiple bids on any low priced bank owned properrty on the market. ??
Banks are basically using an "MLS" version of a 5 day sale here. They are pricing properties at about 80% of comparibles and using a multiple counter offer situation to have buyers give the "Best and Final" offer. I wrote three contracts this w/e and the situation was the same on all 3 properties.

Bes Regards,

Conrad Kuiken

House Hunter San Diego
www.househunter.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Kyle Cascioli <real.estate.professor at hotmail.com>
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Sent: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 10:17 am
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened??
?


Hi Holly:
?
I agree with RC and Bill ...
?
Since?the October stock market implosion?we've seen the qualified buyer pool shrink considerably.? You?now need a 720 FICO score to get a loan.? Cash is coveted!
?
Buyer's are only making offers on properties that they believe they can't get hurt on and expecting to see their acquisition property go down in?value post-sale.? By how much is anyone's guess, but buyer's are being very conservative and defensive.
?
We are?conducting our first builder 5 Day Sale here in Denver this weekend on 4 selected loft units, and you are welcome to come by and observe if you like.
?
www.DenverLoftsAuction.com 
?
Hang in there.
?
Kyle Cascioli
www.AuctionByBuilder.com 
www.AuctionBySeller.com?
www.AuctionByAgent.com 
?
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 06:54:34 -0800
From: hollymac2 at yahoo.com
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Subject: [5-DayForum] What happened???







Hello - I just conducted my first 5-day sale and it failed miserably.? I was very disappointed and desperate - have to sell.? I would like to understand what went wrong.

?

I did pull the 25 responses basically off of my newspaper add alone (couldn't figure out how to get Craigs list from continuously deleting my add....).? And I did NOT include multiple responses from the same phone number, so I did get the 25 unique responses.

?

Still, my traffic was very light, and the only bids offered were from investors (who 
were out the first round) or people who really believed they could get the property for 50 - 60% of FMV.

?

Please help me debrief.? I have a sense the technique can work, I just don't know what happened in my case.

?

My property is a fix and flip.? The property is in a nice neighborhood of 50 year old cookie cutter brick ranches that are low tier housing (that is - below median price in the Denver Metro area - Colorado).? The neighborhood is good and desireable (not gang stuff etc)?has gotten a lot of investors (like me!) in fixing and flipping.? The week before my sale, an exact model similarly?remodeled, sold without consessions for $145,000.? The comps of the exact model, similarly remodeled have sold within days to less than a month for $138,000 - $149,000.? Mine was advertised at $74,500 and as I said I was satisfied I got the needed calls.

?

What happened?

?

Dismayed - and now more desperate than ever...

?

Holly

?

?

?






Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. Check it out. = 


_______________________________________________
-DayForum mailing list
-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
ttp://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

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From lbicon at aol.com  Thu Mar  5 14:11:16 2009
From: lbicon at aol.com (lbicon at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 14:11:16 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] What happened???
In-Reply-To: <BLU122-W325CE82EE3623D26D9B660B4A40@phx.gbl>
References: <3311.71019.qm@web53601.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<BLU122-W325CE82EE3623D26D9B660B4A40@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <8CB6BDD4ADF4DC4-8C8-539@WEBMAIL-MA01.sysops.aol.com>

Hello Kyle,

Sorry but your information about loan qualification is?incorrect. If?a buyer is?putting less than 20 percent down payment, the mortgage insurance company's are requiring a 720 mid FICO score. FHA is still agreat option with as little 3.5% down with much lower FICO requirement.

Regards,

Conrad


-----Original Message-----
From: Kyle Cascioli <real.estate.professor at hotmail.com>
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Sent: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 10:17 am
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???


Hi Holly:
?
I agree with RC and Bill ...
?
Since?the October stock market implosion?we've seen the qualified buyer pool shrink considerably.? You?now need a 720 FICO score to get a loan.? Cash is coveted!
?
Buyer's are only making offers on properties that they believe they can't get hurt on and expecting to see their acquisition property go down in?value post-sale.? By how much is anyone's guess, but buyer's are being very conservative and defensive.
?
We are?conducting our first builder 5 Day Sale here in Denver this weekend on 4 selected loft units, and you are welcome to come by and observe if you like.
?
www.DenverLoftsAuction.com 
?
Hang in there.
?
Kyle Cascioli
www.AuctionByBuilder.com 
www.AuctionBySeller.com?
www.AuctionByAgent.com 
?
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 06:54:34 -0800
From: hollymac2 at yahoo.com
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Subject: [5-DayForum] What happened???







Hello - I just conducted my first 5-day sale and 
it failed miserably.? I was very disappointed and desperate - have to sell.? I would like to understand what went wrong.

?

I did pull the 25 responses basically off of my newspaper add alone (couldn't figure out how to get Craigs list from continuously deleting my add....).? And I did NOT include multiple responses from the same phone number, so I did get the 25 unique responses.

?

Still, my traffic was very light, and the only bids offered were from investors (who were out the first round) or people who really believed they could get the property for 50 - 60% of FMV.

?

Please help me debrief.? I have a sense the technique can work, I just don't know what happened in my case.

?

My property is a fix and flip.? The property is in a nice neighborhood of 50 year old cookie cutter brick ranches that are low tier housing (that is - below median price in the Denver Metro area - Colorado).? The neighborhood is good and desireable (not gang stuff etc)?has gotten a lot of investors (like me!) in fixing and flipping.? The week before my sale, an exact model similarly?remodeled, sold without consessions for $145,000.? The comps of the exact model, similarly remodeled have sold within days to less than a month for $138,000 - $149,000.? Mine was advertised at $74,500 and as I said I was satisfied I got the needed calls.

?

What happened?

?

Dismayed - and now more desperate than ever...

?

Holly


?

?

?






Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. Check it out. = 


_______________________________________________
-DayForum mailing list
-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
ttp://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

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From damian_colden at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  5 14:55:08 2009
From: damian_colden at yahoo.com (Damian Colden)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 11:55:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [5-DayForum] What happened???
References: <3311.71019.qm@web53601.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<BLU122-W325CE82EE3623D26D9B660B4A40@phx.gbl>
	<8CB6BDD4ADF4DC4-8C8-539@WEBMAIL-MA01.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <519016.77118.qm@web53208.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Conrad - 

I agree. Financing is there. I have had clients with a 520 mid score get financed with FHA. I recently had a client with 700+ get 100% financing and no PMI. We are finding that credit unions are starting to take up the slack in the mortgage business. That is where the one client got his 100% loan.

Dac Colden
Realtor
The KatieDidIt! Team 
Keller Williams 
Grand Blanc, MI




________________________________
From: "lbicon at aol.com" <lbicon at aol.com>
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Sent: Thursday, March 5, 2009 2:11:16 PM
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???

Hello Kyle,

Sorry but your information about loan qualification is incorrect. If a buyer is putting less than 20 percent down payment, the mortgage insurance company's are requiring a 720 mid FICO score. FHA is still agreat option with as little 3.5% down with much lower FICO requirement.

Regards,

Conrad


-----Original Message-----
From: Kyle Cascioli <real.estate.professor at hotmail.com>
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Sent: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 10:17 am
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???


 Hi Holly:
 
I agree with RC and Bill ...
 
Since the October stock market implosion we've seen the qualified buyer pool shrink considerably.  You now need a 720 FICO score to get a loan.  Cash is coveted!
 
Buyer's are only making offers on properties that they believe they can't get hurt on and expecting to see their acquisition property go down in value post-sale.  By how much is anyone's guess, but buyer's are being very conservative and defensive.
 
We are conducting our first builder 5 Day Sale here in Denver this weekend on 4 selected loft units, and you are welcome to come by and observe if you like.
 
www.DenverLoftsAuction.com 
 
Hang in there.
 
Kyle Cascioli
www.AuctionByBuilder.com 
www.AuctionBySeller.com 
www.AuctionByAgent.com 
 
________________________________
 Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 06:54:34 -0800
From: hollymac2 at yahoo.com
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Subject: [5-DayForum] What happened???


Hello - I just conducted my first 5-day sale and it failed miserably.  I was very disappointed and desperate - have to sell.  I would like to understand what went wrong.
 
I did pull the 25 responses basically off of my newspaper add alone (couldn't figure out how to get Craigs list from continuously deleting my add....).  And I did NOT include multiple responses from the same phone number, so I did get the 25 unique responses.
 
Still, my traffic was very light, and the only bids offered were from investors (who were out the first round) or people who really believed they could get the property for 50 - 60% of FMV.
 
Please help me debrief.  I have a sen
se the technique can work, I just don't know what happened in my case.
 
My property is a fix and flip.  The property is in a nice neighborhood of 50 year old cookie cutter brick ranches that are low tier housing (that is - below median price in the Denver Metro area - Colorado).  The neighborhood is good and desireable (not gang stuff etc) has gotten a lot of investors (like me!) in fixing and flipping.  The week before my sale, an exact model similarly remodeled, sold without consessions for $145,000.  The comps of the exact model, similarly remodeled have sold within days to less than a month for $138,000 - $149,000.  Mine was advertised at $74,500 and as I said I was satisfied I got the needed calls.
 
What happened?
 
Dismayed - and now more desperate than ever...
 
Holly
 
 
  
________________________________
 Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. Check it out. = 
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From real.estate.professor at hotmail.com  Thu Mar  5 16:03:33 2009
From: real.estate.professor at hotmail.com (Kyle Cascioli)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 15:03:33 -0600
Subject: [5-DayForum] What happened???
In-Reply-To: <8CB6BDD4ADF4DC4-8C8-539@WEBMAIL-MA01.sysops.aol.com>
References: <3311.71019.qm@web53601.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<BLU122-W325CE82EE3623D26D9B660B4A40@phx.gbl> 
	<8CB6BDD4ADF4DC4-8C8-539@WEBMAIL-MA01.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <BLU122-W118A55A2BE053CCDFCE10CB4A40@phx.gbl>


Hi Conrad:

 

I stand by the comment as that's what banker's are telling us and our clients.

 

I've seen it in the underwriting of loans here in Denver - a market more stable than most. Each loan application must be taken at its own merit.

 

Are you suggesting that it is easier to get a loan today than it was last year or the year before?

 

Do you disagree with the observation that the buyer pool has shrunk considerably and that that is further impacting what qualified buyers are willing to pay for a property?

 

Best to all, 

 

Kyle Cascioli

www.AuctionBySeller.com 
 


To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 14:11:16 -0500
From: lbicon at aol.com
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???

Hello Kyle,

Sorry but your information about loan qualification is incorrect. If a buyer is putting less than 20 percent down payment, the mortgage insurance company's are requiring a 720 mid FICO score. FHA is still agreat option with as little 3.5% down with much lower FICO requirement.

Regards,

Conrad


-----Original Message-----
From: Kyle Cascioli <real.estate.professor at hotmail.com>
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Sent: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 10:17 am
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???




Hi Holly:
 
I agree with RC and Bill ...
 
Since the October stock market implosion we've seen the qualified buyer pool shrink considerably.  You now need a 720 FICO score to get a loan.  Cash is coveted!
 
Buyer's are only making offers on properties that they believe they can't get hurt on and expecting to see their acquisition property go down in value post-sale.  By how much is anyone's guess, but buyer's are being very conservative and defensive.
 
We are conducting our first builder 5 Day Sale here in Denver this weekend on 4 selected loft units, and you are welcome to come by and observe if you like.
 
www.DenverLoftsAuction.com 
 
Hang in there.
 
Kyle Cascioli
www.AuctionByBuilder.com 
www.AuctionBySeller.com 
www.AuctionByAgent.com 
 


Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 06:54:34 -0800
From: hollymac2 at yahoo.com
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Subject: [5-DayForum] What happened???







Hello - I just conducted my first 5-day sale and it failed miserably.  I was very disappointed and desperate - have to sell.  I would like to understand what went wrong.
 
I did pull the 25 responses basically off of my newspaper add alone (couldn't figure out how to get Craigs list from continuously deleting my add....).  And I did NOT include multiple responses from the same phone number, so I did get the 25 unique responses.
 
Still, my traffic was very light, and the only bids offered were from investors (who were out the first round) or people who really believed they could get the property for 50 - 60% of FMV.
 
Please help me debrief.  I have a sen se the technique can work, I just don't know what happened in my case.
 
My property is a fix and flip.  The property is in a nice neighborhood of 50 year old cookie cutter brick ranches that are low tier housing (that is - below median price in the Denver Metro area - Colorado).  The neighborhood is good and desireable (not gang stuff etc) has gotten a lot of investors (like me!) in fixing and flipping.  The week before my sale, an exact model similarly remodeled, sold without consessions for $145,000.  The comps of the exact model, similarly remodeled have sold within days to less than a month for $138,000 - $149,000.  Mine was advertised at $74,500 and as I said I was satisfied I got the needed calls.
 
What happened?
 
Dismayed - and now more desperate than ever...
 
Holly
 
 
 


Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. Check it out. = 
_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mai
ling list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum




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From lbicon at aol.com  Thu Mar  5 16:26:17 2009
From: lbicon at aol.com (lbicon at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 16:26:17 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] What happened???
In-Reply-To: <BLU122-W118A55A2BE053CCDFCE10CB4A40@phx.gbl>
References: <3311.71019.qm@web53601.mail.re2.yahoo.com><BLU122-W325CE82EE3623D26D9B660B4A40@phx.gbl>
	<8CB6BDD4ADF4DC4-8C8-539@WEBMAIL-MA01.sysops.aol.com>
	<BLU122-W118A55A2BE053CCDFCE10CB4A40@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <8CB6BF0273973EC-15B4-82E@WEBMAIL-MA01.sysops.aol.com>

Hey Kyle,
I am a lender. Your loan comment was too broad. Basically you said that you need a 720 score. Simply not true.
The guidelines are now as I have stated. Coventional loans less than 20% down need a 720. Not all conventional loans.

We are trying to advise home sellers here. Are you advising that they make the buyers prove that they have a 720 FICO?
Read your comment again. I am sure that you meant conventional Fannie/Freddie loans?. FHA is?a whole different story.

Best regards,

Conrad


-----Original Message-----
From: Kyle Cascioli <real.estate.professor at hotmail.com>
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Sent: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 1:03 pm
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???


Hi Conrad:
?
I stand by the comment as that's what banker's are telling us and our clients.
?
I've seen it in the underwriting of loans here in Denver - a market more stable than most. Each loan application?must be taken at its own merit..
?
Are you suggesting that it is easier to get a loan today than it was last year or the year before?
?
Do?you disagree with the observation that the buyer pool has shrunk considerably and that that is?further impacting what qualified buyers are willing to pay for a property?
?
Best to all, 
?
Kyle Cascioli
www.AuctionBySeller.com?
?
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 14:11:16 -0500
From: lbicon at aol.com
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???

Hello Kyle,

Sorry but your information about l
oan qualification is?incorrect. If?a buyer is?putting less than 20 percent down payment, the mortgage insurance company's are requiring a 720 mid FICO score. FHA is still agreat option with as little 3.5% down with much lower FICO requirement.

Regards,

Conrad


-----Original Message-----
From: Kyle Cascioli <real.estate.professor at hotmail.com>
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Sent: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 10:17 am
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???


Hi Holly:
?
I agree with RC and Bill ...
?
Since?the October stock market implosion?we've seen the qualified buyer pool shrink considerably.? You?now need a 720 FICO score to get a loan.? Cash is coveted!
?
Buyer's are only making offers on properties that they believe they can't get hurt on and expecting to see their acquisition property go down in?value post-sale.? By how much is anyone's guess, but buyer's are being very conservative and defensive.
?
We are?conducting our first builder 5 Day Sale here in Denver this weekend on 4 selected loft units, and you are welcome to come by and observe if you like.
?
www.DenverLoftsAuction.com 
?
Hang in there.
?
Kyle Cascioli
www.AuctionByBuilder.com 
www.AuctionBySeller.com?
www.AuctionByAgent.com 
?
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 06:54:34 -0800
From: hollymac2 at yahoo.com
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Subject: [5-DayForum] What happened???







Hello - I just conducted my first 5-day sale and it failed miserably.? I was very disappointed20and desperate - have to sell.? I would like to understand what went wrong.

?

I did pull the 25 responses basically off of my newspaper add alone (couldn't figure out how to get Craigs list from continuously deleting my add.....).? And I did NOT include multiple responses from the same phone number, so I did get the 25 unique responses.

?

Still, my traffic was very light, and the only bids offered were from investors (who were out the first round) or people who really believed they could get the property for 50 - 60% of FMV.

?

Please help me debrief.? I have a sen se the technique can work, I just don't know what happened in my case.

?

My property is a fix and flip.? The property is in a nice neighborhood of 50 year old cookie cutter brick ranches that are low tier housing (that is - below median price in the Denver Metro area - Colorado).? The neighborhood is good and desireable (not gang stuff etc)?has gotten a lot of investors (like me!) in fixing and flipping.? The week before my sale, an exact model similarly?remodeled, sold without consessions for $145,000.? The comps of the exact model, similarly remodeled have sold within days to less than a month for $138,000 - $149,000.? Mine was advertised at $74,500 and as I said I was satisfied I got the needed calls.

?

What happened?

?

Dismayed - and now more desperate than ever...

?

Holly

?

?

?






Windows20Live?: Keep your life in sync. Check it out. = 


_______________________________________________
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ing list
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From bill at effros.com  Thu Mar  5 17:06:17 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 17:06:17 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] What happened???
In-Reply-To: <839502.46819.qm@web53610.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <839502.46819.qm@web53610.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49B04CD9.9090103@effros.com>

Holly,

I can't imagine that anyone would completely accept my conclusions since 
I am obviously shooting from the hip -- I know none of the details of 
your sale, and I was incommunicado while you were setting it up and 
conducting it.

I gather you have accepted my principal conclusion that "Your home is no 
longer worth $138,000 -- $149,000" since you seem to have accepted the 
broker's estimate of $134-136k. And I imagine the broker is not offering 
his services for nothing, so you are actually prepared to accept 
$125,000 - $130,000 after commission.

Now, using the starting price formula in the book, 1/2 of $130,000 would 
be $65,000.  Dropping that down to a "Magic Number" gets you to $49,500 
-- the starting price I suggested.  You started at $74,500 by pretending 
you thought your home might bring $149,000 and halving that number.  But 
you knew the comp had sold for only $145,000, and you could not possibly 
have thought the market had recently improved. 

You originally asked "What Happened???"  And my answer would be that you 
started too high.  The starting price for a $145,000 home would be $49,500.

You would be amazed at what a difference this makes.  If you start at 
$49,500, and you are honestly prepared to sell or walk as of Sunday 
night, you will find you can convey this information in any language. 

Yes, you will attract more people unable to pay the top price, but you 
will also attract every person willing and able to pay the top price.  
And, if you start at the right price you will get the highest possible 
price on the day of your sale, with no commission to pay.

With regard to "Fair Market Value" your understanding of what that is 
has changed by roughly $25,000 in just a few days solely as a result of 
your experience with the 5-Day Method.  If that broker had offered to 
sell your home for you for $125,000 before you ran the 5-Day Sale you 
would have turned him down.  But you believe what you saw, and you now 
have a far more realistic understanding of "Fair Market Value".

This is a cheap lesson at the price, and the time compression will save 
you the entire cost of your 5-Day Sale.

The real point of the 5-Day Method is that it is possible for anyone to 
get the current "Fair Market Value" for any home in exactly 5 days.  
"What Happened?" is that it worked for you, too.

Lots of people vary the method to suit their particular needs, but it 
has become difficult to find anyone who believes there is any advantage 
to "waiting 6 months" while testing a falling market.

Please let us know how you do with the broker, and what you get.  I have 
no stake in the outcome, except to the extent that I can tell others of 
successful variations of the 5-Day Method when the original seller is no 
longer on this list.  If that broker can get you $155,000, we would all 
like to know how.

We'll all learn Spanish if we have to...

Bill Effros
Author

 



Holly MacIntyre wrote:
> Hi Bill - Appreciate your thoughts and response on my "case." 
>  
> I'm a bit reluctant to completely accept your conclusions - here's 
> why.  I contacted a RE Broker who said that he was able to get a 
> similar property under contract in 8 days (similar to my situation, 
> property not moving for no good reason when properties /are/ 
> selling...).  His caveat?  He's highly "connected" in the Hispanic 
> community with both realtors and mortgage brokers.  We shall see - I 
> listed with him and he thinks he can get it done in two weeks.  He 
> thinks it will go for $134 - 136k.
>  
> But it raises the question - in some neighborhoods could that be an 
> issue?  I must confess that one of my callers was Spanish speaking and 
> was very disappointed that I "no habla espanol..."  He did not show up 
> at my bid sale.
>  
> Have you factored in this sort of issue?
>  
> Thanks again for your input.
>  
> Holly
>
> --- On *Thu, 3/5/09, Bill Effros /<bill at effros.com>/* wrote:
>
>     From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>     Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???
>     To: "How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days"
>     <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>     Date: Thursday, March 5, 2009, 4:25 PM
>
>     Holly,
>
>     Your home is no longer worth $138,000 -- $149,000.
>
>     You can't sell it for that at this time, or you would already have
>     done so.
>
>     The 5-Day Method does not change the market, it just lets you know
>     what it is at the current time.
>
>     Most of the buyers in the $138,000 -- $149,000 market were
>     speculators, just like you.  And, just like you, they got hurt
>     because the market went down.  They all are looking to sell, and
>     none of them has plans to buy any more homes any time soon.  So
>     there are fewer buyers, more homes in foreclosure, more homes
>     getting vandalized and torn down as nuisances, fewer low income
>     people with jobs...and ever lower selling prices.
>
>     The good news is that your starting price of $74,500 drew 25
>     responses.  That means that there are still enough people out
>     there actively seeking to buy your home for what it is currently
>     worth.  (In some communities it is now impossible to get 25
>     responses at any price--taxes and insurance for one  year are more
>     than anyone would be willing to give for the house.)
>
>     Watch what happens to Merry this weekend.  You, also, must either
>     sell or walk.
>
>     If you decide to try the 5-Day Method again, start your home at
>     $49,500.  Tell everyone that you will either sell it to the high
>     bidder, or simply walk away from it if the bank won't take the
>     high bidder's offer.
>
>     Banish the words "Fair Market Value" and "FMV" from your
>     vocabulary.  By definition, the most you can get for your home in
>     the current market is the "Fair Market Value".  There is no such
>     thing as "50%-60% of FMV", and no one can possibly establish such
>     a ratio.
>
>     If you let buyers know you have a "target price" you won't sell
>     below, you won't get it in this market, and 5-Day Buyers won't bid
>     as high as they would bid if they knew you were actually going to
>     sell to the high bidder Sunday night.
>
>     They all know you won't sell Sunday night, and you will have to
>     change your "target price" and sell for less -- whether you know
>     it or not.
>
>     Again, let's all watch what happens to Merry.  It sounds like
>     you're in the same boat.  While everyone cheerfully notes that "a
>     rising tide lifts all boats" nobody wants to hear the corollary --
>     "a falling tide lowers all boats". 
>
>     I think that is what we are all seeing at this time.
>
>     Bill Effros
>     Author
>
>
>
>     hollymac2 at yahoo.com wrote:
>>     Hello - I just conducted my first 5-day sale and it failed
>>     miserably.  I was very disappointed and desperate - have to
>>     sell.  I would like to understand what went wrong.
>>      
>>     I did pull the 25 responses basically off of my newspaper add
>>     alone (couldn't figure out how to get Craigs list from
>>     continuously deleting my add...).  And I did NOT include multiple
>>     responses from the same phone number, so I did get the 25 unique
>>     responses.
>>      
>>     Still, my traffic was very light, and the only bids offered were
>>     from investors (who were out the first round) or people who
>>     really believed they could get the property for 50 - 60% of FMV.
>>      
>>     Please help me debrief.  I have a sense the technique can work, I
>>     just don't know what happened in my case.
>>      
>>     My property is a fix and flip.  The property is in a nice
>>     neighborhood of 50 year old cookie cutter brick ranches that are
>>     low tier housing (that is - below median price in the Denver
>>     Metro area - Colorado).  The neighborhood is good and desireable
>>     (not gang stuff etc) has gotten a lot of investors (like me!) in
>>     fixing and flipping.  The week before my sale, an exact model
>>     similarly remodeled, sold without consessions for $145,000.  The
>>     comps of the exact model, similarly remodeled have sold within
>>     days to less than a month for $138,000 - $149,000.  Mine was
>>     advertised at $74,500 and as I said I was satisfied I got the
>>     needed calls.
>>      
>>     What happened?
>>      
>>     Dismayed - and now more desperate than ever...
>>      
>>     Holly
>>      
>>      
>>      
>>
>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     5-DayForum mailing list
>>     5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>>     http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>       
>     _______________________________________________
>     5-DayForum mailing list
>     5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>     http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>               
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
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From bill at effros.com  Thu Mar  5 17:20:52 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 17:20:52 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] What happened???
In-Reply-To: <8CB6BF0273973EC-15B4-82E@WEBMAIL-MA01.sysops.aol.com>
References: <3311.71019.qm@web53601.mail.re2.yahoo.com><BLU122-W325CE82EE3623D26D9B660B4A40@phx.gbl>	<8CB6BDD4ADF4DC4-8C8-539@WEBMAIL-MA01.sysops.aol.com>	<BLU122-W118A55A2BE053CCDFCE10CB4A40@phx.gbl>
	<8CB6BF0273973EC-15B4-82E@WEBMAIL-MA01.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <49B05044.7070106@effros.com>

Conrad, Kyle,

Thanks for this discussion among professionals -- it's very helpful to 
amateurs.

 From where I sit, it seems that everything varies by region, and all 
the professionals should be aware that what is true in their location is 
not necessarily true elsewhere.

There is so much small print, no one has the time to read it all.  And 
it changes daily.

There are many many places in this country where homes simply can't be 
sold, and no lender will provide a mortgage because there is virtually 
no possibility that the buyer, regardless of FICO score, will ever be 
able to repay it.

I believe that both of you guys are in areas where this phenomenon has 
not yet fully hit, and maybe it will never hit you -- who's to say.  But 
where it has hit, the situation is impossible.  There are too many homes 
and too few jobs.  When the jobs return, they won't be in these places.  
No one in their right mind would offer a mortgage to someone who will 
not be able to either get or hold a job anywhere near that home.

But please keep your comments coming -- everyone learns from them.

Bill Effros
Author



lbicon at aol.com wrote:
> Hey Kyle,
> I am a lender. Your loan comment was too broad. Basically you said 
> that you need a 720 score. Simply not true.
> The guidelines are now as I have stated. Coventional loans less than 
> 20% down need a 720. Not all conventional loans.
>
> We are trying to advise home sellers here. Are you advising that they 
> make the buyers prove that they have a 720 FICO?
> Read your comment again. I am sure that you meant conventional 
> Fannie/Freddie loans . FHA is a whole different story.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Conrad
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kyle Cascioli <real.estate.professor at hotmail.com>
> To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> Sent: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 1:03 pm
> Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???
>
> Hi Conrad:
>  
> I stand by the comment as that's what banker's are telling us and our 
> clients.
>  
> I've seen it in the underwriting of loans here in Denver - a market 
> more stable than most. Each loan application must be taken at its own 
> merit..
>  
> Are you suggesting that it is easier to get a loan today than it was 
> last year or the year before?
>  
> Do you disagree with the observation that the buyer pool has shrunk 
> considerably and that that is further impacting what qualified buyer s 
> are willing to pay for a property?
>  
> Best to all,
>  
> Kyle Cascioli
> www.AuctionBySeller.com <http://www.auctionbyseller.com/> 
>  
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> <mailto:5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
> Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 14:11:16 -0500
> From: lbicon at aol.com <mailto:lbicon at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???
>
> Hello Kyle,
>
> Sorry but your information about loan qualification is incorrect. If a 
> buyer is *_putting less than 20 percent down payment, the mortgage 
> insurance company's are requiring a 720 mid FICO score. FHA is still 
> agreat option with as little 3.5% down with much lower FICO requirement.
> _*
> Regards,
>
> Conrad
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kyle Cascioli <real.estate.professor at hotmail.com 
> <mailto:real.estate.professor at hotmail.com>>
> To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> <mailto:5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
> Sent: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 10:17 am
> Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???
>
> Hi Holly:
>  
> I agree with RC and Bill ...
>  
> Since& nbsp;the October stock market implosion we've seen the 
> qualified buyer pool shrink considerably.  You now need a 720 FICO 
> score to get a loan.  Cash is coveted!
>  
> Buyer's are only making offers on properties that they believe they 
> can't get hurt on and expecting to see their acquisition property go 
> down in value post-sale.  By how much is anyone's guess, but buyer's 
> are being very conservative and defensive.
>  
> We are conducting our first builder 5 Day Sale here in Denver this 
> weekend on 4 selected loft units, and you are welcome to come by and 
> observe if you like.
>  
> www.DenverLoftsAuction.com <http://www.denverloftsauct%20%20ion.com/>
>  
> Hang in there.
>  
> Kyle Cascioli
> www.AuctionByBuilder.com <http://www.auctionbybuilder.com/>
> www.AuctionBySeller.com <http://www.auctionbyseller.com/> 
> www.AuctionByAgent.com <http://www.auctionbyagent.com/>
>  
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 06:54:34 -0800
> From: hollymac2 at yahoo.com <mailto:hollymac2 at yahoo.com>
> To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> <mailto:5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
> Subject: [5-DayForum] What happened???
>
> Hello - I just conducted my first 5-day sale and it failed miserably.  
> I was very disappointed and desperate - have to se ll.  I would like 
> to understand what went wrong.
>  
> I did pull the 25 responses basically off of my newspaper add alone 
> (couldn't figure out how to get Craigs list from continuously deleting 
> my add.....).  And I did NOT include multiple responses from the same 
> phone number, so I did get the 25 unique responses.
>  
> Still, my traffic was very light, and the only bids offered were from 
> investors (who were out the first round) or people who really believed 
> they could get the property for 50 - 60% of FMV.
>  
> Please help me debrief.  I have a sen se the technique can work, I 
> just don't know what happened in my case.
>  
> My property is a fix and flip.  The property is in a nice neighborhood 
> of 50 year old cookie cutter brick ranches that are low tier housing 
> (that is - below median price in the Denver Metro area - Colorado).  
> The neighborhood is good and desireable (not gang stuff etc) has 
> gotten a lot of investors (like me!) in fixing and flipping.  The week 
> before my sale, an exact model similarly remodeled, sold without 
> consessions for $145,000.  The comps of the exact model, similarly 
> remodeled have sold within days to less than a month for $138,000 - 
> $149,000.  Mine was advertised at $74,500 and as I said I was 
> satisfied I got the needed calls.
>  
> What happened?
>  
> Dismayed - and now more desperate than ever...
>  
> Holly
>  
>  
>  
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. Check it out. 
> <http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_allup_1b_explore_032009> 
> =
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mai
> ling list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get 
> the Radio Toolbar 
> <http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000035>!
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Find 
> out more. 
> <http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_70faster_032009> 
> =
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get 
> the Radio Toolbar 
> <http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000035>!
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
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>   
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From real.estate.professor at hotmail.com  Thu Mar  5 18:09:06 2009
From: real.estate.professor at hotmail.com (Kyle Cascioli)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 17:09:06 -0600
Subject: [5-DayForum] What happened???
In-Reply-To: <8CB6BF0273973EC-15B4-82E@WEBMAIL-MA01.sysops.aol.com>
References: <3311.71019.qm@web53601.mail.re2.yahoo.com><BLU122-W325CE82EE3623D26D9B660B4A40@phx.gbl>
	<8CB6BDD4ADF4DC4-8C8-539@WEBMAIL-MA01.sysops.aol.com>
	<BLU122-W118A55A2BE053CCDFCE10CB4A40@phx.gbl> 
	<8CB6BF0273973EC-15B4-82E@WEBMAIL-MA01.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <BLU122-W23A043E5D6D72329D851C3B4A40@phx.gbl>


Hi Conrad:

 

I'm not really focused on the FICO hurdle score at all ... just trying to demonstrate to many 5 Day Sale home sellers that they need to be realistic about their selling price expectations.

 

Most of our sales price points are jumbo loans in excess of $500k and are not eligible for FHA.

 

I have found that most sellers today are in denial about the market values of their homes.

 

That said, you didn't respond to my last two questions.

 

Best to all, 

 

Kyle Cascioli

www.AuctionByBuilder.com 
 


To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 16:26:17 -0500
From: lbicon at aol.com
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???

Hey Kyle,
I am a lender. Your loan comment was too broad. Basically you said that you need a 720 score. Simply not true.
The guidelines are now as I have stated. Coventional loans less than 20% down need a 720. Not all conventional loans.

We are trying to advise home sellers here. Are you advising that they make the buyers prove that they have a 720 FICO?
Read your comment again. I am sure that you meant conventional Fannie/Freddie loans . FHA is a whole different story.

Best regards,

Conrad


-----Original Message-----
From: Kyle Cascioli <real.estate.professor at hotmail.com>
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Sent: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 1:03 pm
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???




Hi Conrad:
 
I stand by the comment as that's what banker's are telling us and our clients.
 
I've seen it in the underwriting of loans here in Denver - a market more stable than most. Each loan application must be taken at its own merit..
 
Are you suggesting that it is easier to get a loan today than it was last year or the year before?
 
Do you disagree with the observation that the buyer pool has shrunk considerably and that that is further impacting what qualified buyer s are willing to pay for a property?
 
Best to all, 
 
Kyle Cascioli
www.AuctionBySeller.com 
 


To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 14:11:16 -0500
From: lbicon at aol.com
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???

Hello Kyle,

Sorry but your information about loan qualification is incorrect. If a buyer is putting less than 20 percent down payment, the mortgage insurance company's are requiring a 720 mid FICO score. FHA is still agreat option with as little 3.5% down with much lower FICO requirement.

Regards,

Conrad


-----Original Message-----
From: Kyle Cascioli <real.estate.professor at hotmail.com>
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Sent: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 10:17 am
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???




Hi Holly:
 
I agree with RC and Bill ...
 
Since& nbsp;the October stock market implosion we've seen the qualified buyer pool shrink considerably.  You now need a 720 FICO score to get a loan.  Cash is coveted!
 
Buyer's are only making offers on properties that they believe they can't get hurt on and expecting to see their acquisition property go down in value post-sale.  By how much is anyone's guess, but buyer's are being very conservative and defensive.
 
We are conducting our first builder 5 Day Sale here in Denver this weekend on 4 selected loft units, and you are welcome to come by and observe if you like.
 
www.DenverLoftsAuction.com 
 
Hang in there.
 
Kyle Cascioli
www.AuctionByBuilder.com 
www.AuctionBySeller.com 
www.AuctionByAgent.com 
 


Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 06:54:34 -0800
From: hollymac2 at yahoo.com
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Subject: [5-DayForum] What happened???







Hello - I just conducted my first 5-day sale and it failed miserably.  I was very disappointed and desperate - have to se ll.  I would like to understand what went wrong.
 
I did pull the 25 responses basically off of my newspaper add alone (couldn't figure out how to get Craigs list from continuously deleting my add.....).  And I did NOT include multiple responses from the same phone number, so I did get the 25 unique responses.
 
Still, my traffic was very light, and the only bids offered were from investors (who were out the first round) or people who really believed they could get the property for 50 - 60% of FMV.
 
Please help me debrief.  I have a sen se the technique can work, I just don't know what happened in my case.
 
My property is a fix and flip.  The property is in a nice neighborhood of 50 year old cookie cutter brick ranches that are low tier housing (that is - below median price in the Denver Metro area - Colorado).  The neighborhood is good and desireable (not gang stuff etc) has gotten a lot of investors (like me!) in fixing and flipping.  The week before my sale, an exact model similarly remodeled, sold without consessions for $145,000.  The comps of the exact model, similarly remodeled have sold within days to less than a month for $138,000 - $149,000.  Mine was advertised at $74,500 and as I said I was satisfied I got the needed calls.
 
What happened?
 
Dismayed - and now more desperate than ever...
 
Holly
 
 
 


Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. Check it out. = 
_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mai
ling list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum




Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the Radio Toolbar! 


Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Find out more. = 
_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum




Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the Radio Toolbar! 
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live?: Life without walls.
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_allup_1a_explore_032009
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From lbicon at aol.com  Thu Mar  5 18:31:10 2009
From: lbicon at aol.com (lbicon at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 18:31:10 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] What happened???
In-Reply-To: <BLU122-W23A043E5D6D72329D851C3B4A40@phx.gbl>
References: <3311.71019.qm@web53601.mail.re2.yahoo.com><BLU122-W325CE82EE3623D26D9B660B4A40@phx.gbl><8CB6BDD4ADF4DC4-8C8-539@WEBMAIL-MA01.sysops.aol.com><BLU122-W118A55A2BE053CCDFCE10CB4A40@phx.gbl>
	<8CB6BF0273973EC-15B4-82E@WEBMAIL-MA01.sysops.aol.com>
	<BLU122-W23A043E5D6D72329D851C3B4A40@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <8CB6C01998069C4-15B4-10DF@WEBMAIL-MA01.sysops.aol.com>

Kyle,

I had already answered your questions before you asked them in an earlier email today?about the process. I stated that buyers are unwilling to compete with each other with a sense of urgency.?

As far as sellers being in denial. I am only dealing with short sales and REO props. Coventional sellers?have been unreasonable. I sold 1 non distressed property last year. Why would anyone sell in this market unless they absolutely had too. That has been my advice in this forum. 

As for fix and flippers. You had better really sharpen your pencils and make sure you have some extra risk pemiums in your calculations.


Have a great weekend Professor,

CK









Hi Conrad:
?
I'm not really focused on the FICO hurdle score at all ... just trying to demonstrate to many 5 Day Sale home sellers that they need to be realistic about their selling?price expectations.
?
Most of our sales price?points?are?jumbo loans in excess of $500k and?are not eligible for FHA.
?
I have found that most sellers today are in denial about the market values of their homes.
?
That said, you didn't respond to my last two questions.
?
Best to all, 
?
Kyle Cascioli
www.AuctionByBuilder.com?
?
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 16:26:17 -0500
From: lbicon at aol.com
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???

Hey Kyle,
I am a lender. Your loan comment was too broad. Basically you said that you need a 720 score. Simply not=2
0true.
The guidelines are now as I have stated. Coventional loans less than 20% down need a 720. Not all conventional loans.

We are trying to advise home sellers here. Are you advising that they make the buyers prove that they have a 720 FICO?
Read your comment again. I am sure that you meant conventional Fannie/Freddie loans?. FHA is?a whole different story.

Best regards,

Conrad


-----Original Message-----
From: Kyle Cascioli <real.estate.professor at hotmail.com>
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Sent: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 1:03 pm
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???


Hi Conrad:
?
I stand by the comment as that's what banker's are telling us and our clients.
?
I've seen it in the underwriting of loans here in Denver - a market more stable than most. Each loan application?must be taken at its own merit..
?
Are you suggesting that it is easier to get a loan today than it was last year or the year before?
?
Do?you disagree with the observation that the buyer pool has shrunk considerably and that that is?further impacting what qualified buyer s are willing to pay for a property?
?
Best to all, 
?
Kyle Cascioli
www.AuctionBySeller.com?
?
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 14:11:16 -0500
From: lbicon at aol.com
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???

Hello Kyle,

Sorry but your information about loan qualification is?incorrect. If?a buyer is?putting less than 20 percent down payment, the mortgage insurance 
company's are requiring a 720 mid FICO score.. FHA is still agreat option with as little 3.5% down with much lower FICO requirement.

Regards,

Conrad


-----Original Message-----
From: Kyle Cascioli <real.estate.professor at hotmail.com>
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Sent: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 10:17 am
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???


Hi Holly:
?
I agree with RC and Bill ...
?
Since& nbsp;the October stock market implosion?we've seen the qualified buyer pool shrink considerably.? You?now need a 720 FICO score to get a loan.? Cash is coveted!
?
Buyer's are only making offers on properties that they believe they can't get hurt on and expecting to see their acquisition property go down in?value post-sale.? By how much is anyone's guess, but buyer's are being very conservative and defensive.
?
We are?conducting our first builder 5 Day Sale here in Denver this weekend on 4 selected loft units, and you are welcome to come by and observe if you like.
?
www.DenverLoftsAuction..com 
?
Hang in there.
?
Kyle Cascioli
www.AuctionByBuilder.com 
www.AuctionBySeller.com?
www.AuctionByAgent.com 
?
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 06:54:34 -0800
From: hollymac2 at yahoo.com
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Subject: [5-DayForum] What happened???







Hello - I just conducted my first 5-day sale and it failed miserably.? I was very disappointed and desperate - have to se ll.? I would like to understand what went wrong.

?

I did pull the 2
5 responses basically off of my newspaper add alone (couldn't figure out how to get Craigs list from continuously deleting my add......).? And I did NOT include multiple responses from the same phone number, so I did get the 25 unique responses.

?

Still, my traffic was very light, and the only bids offered were from investors (who were out the first round) or people who really believed they could get the property for 50 - 60% of FMV.

?

Please help me debrief.? I have a sen se the technique can work, I just don't know what happened in my case.

?

My property is a fix and flip.? The property is in a nice neighborhood of 50 year old cookie cutter brick ranches that are low tier housing (that is - below median price in the Denver Metro area - Colorado).? The neighborhood is good and desireable (not gang stuff etc)?has gotten a lot of investors (like me!) in fixing and flipping.? The week before my sale, an exact model similarly?remodeled, sold without consessions for $145,000.? The comps of the exact model, similarly remodeled have sold within days to less than a month for $138,000 - $149,000.? Mine was advertised at $74,500 and as I said I was satisfied I got the needed calls.

?

What happened?

?

Dismayed - and now more desperate than ever...

?

Holly

?

?

?






Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. Check it out. = 


_______________________________________________
-DayForum20mai
ing list
-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
ttp://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum



Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the Radio Toolbar! 

Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Find out more. = 


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-DayForum mailing list
-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
ttp://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum



Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the Radio Toolbar! 

Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. Check it out. = 


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-DayForum mailing list
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From real.estate.professor at hotmail.com  Thu Mar  5 19:15:25 2009
From: real.estate.professor at hotmail.com (Kyle Cascioli)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 18:15:25 -0600
Subject: [5-DayForum] What happened???
In-Reply-To: <8CB6C01998069C4-15B4-10DF@WEBMAIL-MA01.sysops.aol.com>
References: <3311.71019.qm@web53601.mail.re2.yahoo.com><BLU122-W325CE82EE3623D26D9B660B4A40@phx.gbl><8CB6BDD4ADF4DC4-8C8-539@WEBMAIL-MA01.sysops.aol.com><BLU122-W118A55A2BE053CCDFCE10CB4A40@phx.gbl>
	<8CB6BF0273973EC-15B4-82E@WEBMAIL-MA01.sysops.aol.com>
	<BLU122-W23A043E5D6D72329D851C3B4A40@phx.gbl> 
	<8CB6C01998069C4-15B4-10DF@WEBMAIL-MA01.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <BLU122-W2A35E1D35855001E53D43B4A50@phx.gbl>


Hi CK:

 

Thanks for clarifying.  I think there is still a marketable sense of urgency under the 5 Day Sale/Auction format if you have a good property and more than one "real buyer."

 

I agree with your comment regarding why sell if not under duress in the current market.

 

However, there are still many who must sell and who must buy.

 

The world may be cracking ... but it's still spinning. 

 

We've exceeded the contact threshold for our Denver 5 Day Sale this weekend.

 

You have a nice weekend also, and we'll keep everyone posted on the results of our sale. 

 

Cheers, 

 

Kyle Cascioli

www.AuctionByBuilder.com  
 


To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 18:31:10 -0500
From: lbicon at aol.com
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???

Kyle,

I had already answered your questions before you asked them in an earlier email today about the process. I stated that buyers are unwilling to compete with each other with a sense of urgency. 

As far as sellers being in denial. I am only dealing with short sales and REO props. Coventional sellers have been unreasonable. I sold 1 non distressed property last year. Why would anyone sell in this market unless they absolutely had too. That has been my advice in this forum. 

As for fix and flippers. You had better really sharpen your pencils and make sure you have some extra risk pemiums in your calculations.


Have a great weekend Professor,

CK











Hi Conrad:
 
I'm not really focused on the FICO hurdle score at all ... just trying to demonstrate to many 5 Day Sale home sellers that they need to be realistic about their selling price expectations.
 
Most of our sales price points are jumbo loans in excess of $500k and are not eligible for FHA.
 
I have found that most sellers today are in denial about the market values of their homes.
 
That said, you didn't respond to my last two questions.
 
Best to all, 
 
Kyle Cascioli
www.AuctionByBuilder.com 
 


To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 16:26:17 -0500
From: lbicon at aol.com
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???

Hey Kyle,
I am a lender. Your loan comment was too broad. Basically you said that you need a 720 score. Simply not true.
The guidelines are now as I have stated. Coventional loans less than 20% down need a 720. Not all conventional loans.

We are trying to advise home sellers here. Are you advising that they make the buyers prove that they have a 720 FICO?
Read your comment again. I am sure that you meant conventional Fannie/Freddie loans . FHA is a whole different story.

Best regards,

Conrad


-----Original Message-----
From: Kyle Cascioli <real.estate.professor at hotmail.com>
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Sent: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 1:03 pm
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???




Hi Conrad:
 
I stand by the comment as that's what banker's are telling us and our clients.
 
I've seen it in the underwriting of loans here in Denver - a market more stable than most. Each loan application must be taken at its own merit..
 
Are you suggesting that it is easier to get a loan today than it was last year or the year before?
 
Do you disagree with the observation that the buyer pool has shrunk considerably and that that is further impacting what qualified buyer s are willing to pay for a property?
 
Best to all, 
 
Kyle Cascioli
www.AuctionBySeller.com 
 


To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 14:11:16 -0500
From: lbicon at aol.com
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???

Hello Kyle,

Sorry but your information about loan qualification is incorrect. If a buyer is putting less than 20 percent down payment, the mortgage insurance company's are requiring a 720 mid FICO score.. FHA is still agreat option with as little 3.5% down with much lower FICO requirement.

Regards,

Conrad


-----Original Message-----
From: Kyle Cascioli <real.estate.professor at hotmail.com >
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Sent: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 10:17 am
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???




Hi Holly:
 
I agree with RC and Bill ...
 
Since& nbsp;the October stock market implosion we've seen the qualified buyer pool shrink considerably.  You now need a 720 FICO score to get a loan.  Cash is coveted!
 
Buyer's are only making offers on properties that they believe they can't get hurt on and expecting to see their acquisition property go down in value post-sale.  By how much is anyone's guess, but buyer's are being very conservative and defensive.
 
We are conducting our first builder 5 Day Sale here in Denver this weekend on 4 selected loft units, and you are welcome to come by and observe if you like.
 
www.DenverLoftsAuction..com 
 
Hang in there.
 
Kyle Cascioli
www.AuctionByBuilder.com 
www.AuctionBySeller.com 
www.AuctionByAgent.com 
 


Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 06:54:34 -0800
From: hollymac2 at yahoo.com
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Subject: [5-DayForum] What happened???







Hello - I just conducted my first 5-day sale and it failed miserably.  I was very disappointed and desperate - have to se ll.  I would like to understand what went wrong.
 
I did pull the 25 responses basically off of my newspaper add alone (couldn't figure out how to get Craigs list from continuously deleting my add......).  And I did NOT include multiple responses from the same phone number, so I did get the 25 unique responses.
 
Still, my traffic was very light, and the only bids offered were from investors (who were out the first round) or people who really believed they could get the property for 50 - 60% of FMV.
 
Please help me debrief.  I have a sen se the technique can work, I just don't know what happened in my case.
 
My property is20a fix and flip.  The property is in a nice neighborhood of 50 year old cookie cutter brick ranches that are low tier housing (that is - below median price in the Denver Metro area - Colorado).  The neighborhood is good and desireable (not gang stuff etc) has gotten a lot of investors (like me!) in fixing and flipping.  The week before my sale, an exact model similarly remodeled, sold without consessions for $145,000.  The comps of the exact model, similarly remodeled have sold within days to less than a month for $138,000 - $149,000.  Mine was advertised at $74,500 and as I said I was satisfied I got the needed calls.
 
What happened?
 
Dismayed - and now more desperate than ever...
 
Holly
 
 
 


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From real.estate.professor at hotmail.com  Fri Mar  6 15:03:43 2009
From: real.estate.professor at hotmail.com (Kyle Cascioli)
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 14:03:43 -0600
Subject: [5-DayForum] Denver New Lofts 5 Day Sale
Message-ID: <BLU122-W2843C9FDDAC0F68EBE23EDB4A50@phx.gbl>


Hi Everyone:

 

We've had 46 contacts thus far and have had 19 potential bidders "pre-register" on our website.

 

Two bidders have already submitted online "sealed bids."

 

Check out the property at www.DenverLoftsAuction.com 

 

Wis us luck and we'll keep teh Forum posted on our progress.

 

Best to all,

 

Kyle Cascioli

www.AuctionByBuilder.com 

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live? Groups: Create an online spot for your favorite groups to meet.
http://windowslive.com/online/groups?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_groups_032009
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From roxanneinvestments at gmail.com  Fri Mar  6 15:25:43 2009
From: roxanneinvestments at gmail.com (Jill Greenberg)
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 12:25:43 -0800
Subject: [5-DayForum] Can 5 day sale be applied to high-end house
Message-ID: <ba9664520903061225p1a7fad34mad072f36578d1290@mail.gmail.com>

I am new to the 5-day concept, but after reading this book, it sounds
GREAT!!

We are doing a major high-end renovation to a 2-unit TIC in San Francisco.
We expect this property to sell for 3.8-4 million dollars.  We could sell
the whole property or each TIC unit separately - eg 1.8 and 2.2 million for
the 2 units.

Has anyone sold anything this expensive using the 5-day technique?  Has
anyone sold a 2-unit building (with option of selling each unit separately)
using this technique?

If I use the 50% rule, would my initial starting price for the whole thing
be 2 million dollars (or 1,999,740 - ?? is this the magic number for this
amount??).

Would I need a bigger ad to cover both possibilities (whole thing vs each
separately) or should I just have 2 separate ads?

We won't be ready for this sale for several months, but I'm trying to plan
for the sale now.

Thanks for your help.
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From rcutcher at austin.rr.com  Sat Mar  7 10:02:06 2009
From: rcutcher at austin.rr.com (RC Cutcher)
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 09:02:06 -0600
Subject: [5-DayForum]  Can 5 day sale be applied to high-end house
Message-ID: <000901c99f35$af012260$0201a8c0@RCCutcher>

Jill,

It sounds like you are in a stand alone situation with this property. Unless you can find several very good comparables (10 is the best number), then you are offering something in your neck of the woods that can't easily be compared to anything like it within a mile or two, or three.  So it doesn't really have anything at all to do with price, imo. 

It is all about comparing apples and apples. I am  about the same age as Ron Howard, Robin Williams, and Rush Limbaugh.  And actually,  I am somewhat better looking than Rush at least,  and yet strangers  don't take my picture out in public to give to their families because of something that is going on with those guys that I don't have going on.  :)

That's my three cents worth.

RC Cutcher
Realtor, ABR
Austin Texas Homes, LLC
www.austintexashomes.com
512-848-4449

The Short Sale/Foreclosure Workshop
Trec Provider No. 0623
Course No. 03-00-100-7436
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From jcarv929 at cox.net  Sat Mar  7 10:33:24 2009
From: jcarv929 at cox.net (jcarv929 at cox.net)
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 10:33:24 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] Can 5 day sale be applied to high-end house
In-Reply-To: <000901c99f35$af012260$0201a8c0@RCCutcher>
Message-ID: <20090307103324.90FDV.70150.imail@eastrmwml39>

Please remove me from your email.  Thanks.
                               John
---- RC Cutcher <rcutcher at austin.rr.com> wrote: 
> Jill,
> 
> It sounds like you are in a stand alone situation with this property. Unless you can find several very good comparables (10 is the best number), then you are offering something in your neck of the woods that can't easily be compared to anything like it within a mile or two, or three.  So it doesn't really have anything at all to do with price, imo. 
> 
> It is all about comparing apples and apples. I am  about the same age as Ron Howard, Robin Williams, and Rush Limbaugh.  And actually,  I am somewhat better looking than Rush at least,  and yet strangers  don't take my picture out in public to give to their families because of something that is going on with those guys that I don't have going on.  :)
> 
> That's my three cents worth.
> 
> RC Cutcher
> Realtor, ABR
> Austin Texas Homes, LLC
> www.austintexashomes.com
> 512-848-4449
> 
> The Short Sale/Foreclosure Workshop
> Trec Provider No. 0623
> Course No. 03-00-100-7436

From bill at effros.com  Sat Mar  7 12:06:38 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 12:06:38 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] Can 5 day sale be applied to high-end house
In-Reply-To: <ba9664520903061225p1a7fad34mad072f36578d1290@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ba9664520903061225p1a7fad34mad072f36578d1290@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49B2A99E.4090701@effros.com>

Jill,

The price issue is not an issue.  In San Francisco, where 2 million 
dollar units are not unusual, you will have no difficulty attracting 3 
real buyers for the units you are offering.  (The same structure in 
Utica, NY would have a problem because there are not likely to be 3 real 
buyers for such a property in that place at this time.)

What you MUST do is make a clear offer.  (The 8 line standard classified 
ad is all you need.)  Do not let people "mix and match" offers.  One 
buyer wants the whole property, another the small unit, another the 
large one...This won't work!)

If I were you, I would offer the small unit first and only.  This can be 
done before both units are ready to sell.  Set up the small one first, 
run a 5-Day Sale--no promises that the big one will be offered for sale 
in the same manner--see what happens.  If you can keep people out of the 
big unit -- do so -- don't even mention it.

I would offer the small unit for $749,500 or best offer.  I would offer 
it in the SF Chronicle -- or whatever the big city paper is at this 
point, and Craig's List.  If you fail to get 25 responses from just 
these 2 classified ads by Friday night -- pull the ads.  Let everyone 
know you are not going to run the sale, get back to us on this list.

SF, NYC, and a band in the middle of the country are the last to be hit 
by this housing depression.  It's not likely to be over before it hits 
us, too.  Your 5-Day Ad will let you know if SF prices are actually 
declining, or not.  This will enable you to know what to do next.

If you are happy with the results of your 5-Day Sale, offer the larger 
unit.  In my experience, you will get a larger turn-out, and a higher 
final price because many participants will know the first unit offered 
was actually sold to the high bidder, and they will have "bidder's 
remorse" that they didn't offer as much as they were prepared to pay.  
Once this unit is gone, it's gone--and there won't be any more.

This is a place where we think out loud -- feel free to keep asking 
questions.

Bill Effros
Author



Jill Greenberg wrote:
> I am new to the 5-day concept, but after reading this book, it sounds 
> GREAT!!
>  
> We are doing a major high-end renovation to a 2-unit TIC in San 
> Francisco.  We expect this property to sell for 3.8-4 million 
> dollars.  We could sell the whole property or each TIC unit separately 
> - eg 1.8 and 2.2 million for the 2 units.
>  
> Has anyone sold anything this expensive using the 5-day technique?  
> Has anyone sold a 2-unit building (with option of selling each unit 
> separately) using this technique?
>  
> If I use the 50% rule, would my initial starting price for the whole 
> thing be 2 million dollars (or 1,999,740 - ?? is this the magic number 
> for this amount??).
>  
> Would I need a bigger ad to cover both possibilities (whole thing vs 
> each separately) or should I just have 2 separate ads?
>  
> We won't be ready for this sale for several months, but I'm trying to 
> plan for the sale now. 
>  
> Thanks for your help.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
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From bill at effros.com  Sat Mar  7 12:08:38 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 12:08:38 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] How to Unsubscribe
In-Reply-To: <4424efe20901240127r1ba45164h70553f4a8513c3d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4424efe20901240127r1ba45164h70553f4a8513c3d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49B2AA16.5080601@effros.com>

25 to 30 people a day subscribe and unsubscribe.

If you are having a problem, it is probably on your own computer.  The
confirmation notice is probably going into your junk, trash or spam folder.

Without confirmation that you are you, and that you wish to be
subscribed or unsubscribed, the Forum gets spammed by people who aren't
you, phishing for information about you that we never release.

When you want to unsubscribe from the 5-Day Forum you must do it for
yourself.

It is the reverse of the process you used to subscribe:

1.  Go to the 5-DayForum website:

www.5-DayForum.com

2.  Click on the blue word "unsubscribe" on the left side of the home page.

3.  Fill in the email address of your subscription in the box provided.

4.  Follow the instructions.

Bill Effros
List Administrator




From rapisardi at tmail.com  Sat Mar  7 12:14:41 2009
From: rapisardi at tmail.com (Gabe Rapisardi)
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 12:14:41 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] How to Unsubscribe
In-Reply-To: <49B2AA16.5080601@effros.com>
References: <4424efe20901240127r1ba45164h70553f4a8513c3d@mail.gmail.com>
	<49B2AA16.5080601@effros.com>
Message-ID: <1236446086.282FD08@dg20.dngr.org>

Please remove me from this email forum. Thanks
--rapisardi

From rspornicu at gmail.com  Sat Mar  7 14:06:29 2009
From: rspornicu at gmail.com (Roland Spornicu)
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 11:06:29 -0800
Subject: [5-DayForum] Please remove me from the mailing list
Message-ID: <a02762100903071106k4f80c7d7k554501e0c04cc15e@mail.gmail.com>

-- 
Best Regards,
Roland Spornicu
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From merrymcc at gmail.com  Sat Mar  7 15:02:15 2009
From: merrymcc at gmail.com (Merry McConnell)
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 15:02:15 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...
Message-ID: <92c4cf3d0903071202y62af8ee8p304fd4c1ea7e62b3@mail.gmail.com>

A Quick Update!

Phew!

I had 32 calls by Friday night...and this morning (Sat) the phone has been
ringing non-stop.
One person offered a cash offer but I knew better!  Thank goodness read the
book!
The house is C L E A N and de-cluttered, good smelling and all lights are
ON!  People LOVE
it and I can *feel *determination to own from three sets.  Oh yeah...

We (my friend and I) are having a ball...loving talking to people and
feeling comfortable with the
entire process.  Everyone says they're going in on the Round Robin - only
four signed the sheet
but others are bringing back spouses, etc.

All I know is that people are awe-struck with the place and they all 'want'
it.

Thank you, Bill for writing this book...no matter how this works out.

I have my appt. with my lawyer for the contract signing on Monday at
10am...because I just
*know *I'll need it!

More Later!

Merry
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From patricialone at hotmail.com  Sat Mar  7 15:28:13 2009
From: patricialone at hotmail.com (Patricia Lone)
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 15:28:13 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] UNSUBSCRIBE, For all of you who want to
In-Reply-To: <49B2AA16.5080601@effros.com>
References: <4424efe20901240127r1ba45164h70553f4a8513c3d@mail.gmail.com>
	<49B2AA16.5080601@effros.com>
Message-ID: <BLU141-W9B678493D9DF29013C472D2A20@phx.gbl>


I have copied and pasted below a message Bill Effros sent to the list regarding this matter.  

Please read and follow the instructions Bill gives.  It is much the same as when you signed up.  This is something you have to do on your own.

Patricia  
Michigan, Conservator/Landlord/Seller

           "Aspire to inspire before you expire!"
                                                      Seasons (Powerpoint)

 

> Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 12:08:38 -0500
> From: bill at effros.com
> To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> Subject: [5-DayForum] How to Unsubscribe

25 to 30 people a day subscribe and unsubscribe.
 
If you are having a problem, it is probably on your own computer. The confirmation notice is probably going into your junk, trash or spam folder.
 
Without confirmation that you are you, and that you wish to be subscribed or unsubscribed, the Forum gets spammed by people who aren't you, phishing for information about you that we never release.
 
When you want to unsubscribe from the 5-Day Forum you must do it for yourself.

It is the reverse of the process you used to subscribe:

1. Go to the 5-DayForum website:

www.5-DayForum.com

2. Click on the blue word "unsubscribe" on the left side of the home page.

3. Fill in the email address of your subscription in the box provided.

4. Follow the instructions.

Bill Effros
List Administrator

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From bill at effros.com  Sat Mar  7 16:12:05 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 16:12:05 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...
In-Reply-To: <92c4cf3d0903071202y62af8ee8p304fd4c1ea7e62b3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <92c4cf3d0903071202y62af8ee8p304fd4c1ea7e62b3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49B2E325.9090300@effros.com>

Good going, Merry!

Most of the people who say they're coming back, and say they're going to 
participate, will not.  Don't be discouraged by this, it doesn't matter.

You will only have 1 final buyer, and 2 others will push that buyer up 
to fair market value.  All the rest are just window dressing.

The people you are talking to are real.  You are real.  The process is fair.

No matter what the final bid, proceed.

Let the high bidder negotiate with the bank -- just get out of the way, 
and let both the high bidder and the bank know you are getting out of 
the way before they start negotiating with each other.

Others may call after the bidding.  Send them along to the bank, too -- 
but let your high bidder get the first shot at your house.

The price you are offered, even if it is much much lower than you 
thought it would be, is the current fair market value.  If the bank 
doesn't accept that fact, they will get to hold onto that house until 
they learn.  If they do accept it, they will be able to get it, or maybe 
a little bit more, from your high bidder or one of the other bidders.

In any case, you will have determined the fair market value, and sold 
your home within 5 days.

And that's the whole point of this exercise.

Bill Effros
Author



Merry McConnell wrote:
> A Quick Update!
>
> Phew!
>
> I had 32 calls by Friday night...and this morning (Sat) the phone has 
> been ringing non-stop.
> One person offered a cash offer but I knew better!  Thank goodness 
> read the book!
> The house is C L E A N and de-cluttered, good smelling and all lights 
> are ON!  People LOVE
> it and I can /feel /determination to own from three sets.  Oh yeah...
>
> We (my friend and I) are having a ball...loving talking to people and 
> feeling comfortable with the
> entire process.  Everyone says they're going in on the Round Robin - 
> only four signed the sheet
> but others are bringing back spouses, etc.
>
> All I know is that people are awe-struck with the place and they all 
> 'want' it. 
>
> Thank you, Bill for writing this book...no matter how this works out.
>
> I have my appt. with my lawyer for the contract signing on Monday at 
> 10am...because I just
> /know /I'll need it!
>
> More Later!
>
> Merry
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
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From real.estate.professor at hotmail.com  Sat Mar  7 20:12:42 2009
From: real.estate.professor at hotmail.com (Kyle Cascioli)
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 20:12:42 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] Denver Lofts 5 Day Sale
Message-ID: <BLU122-W2448E6A84C511C787B763CB4A30@phx.gbl>


Hi Everyone:

 

We had a great turnout today.  Over 40 people inspected the project and we have 11 bids thus far.

 

We'll keep you posted.

 

Cheers,

 

Kyle Cascioli

www.AuctionByBuilder.com 

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live? Groups: Create an online spot for your favorite groups to meet.
http://windowslive.com/online/groups?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_groups_032009
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From glendav24 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar  8 09:34:59 2009
From: glendav24 at yahoo.com (V Glenda)
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 06:34:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [5-DayForum] 5 Day Sale in Manhattan
Message-ID: <422578.71614.qm@web112210.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hi!  All-
I am preparing to sell our coop in Manhattan this month.  Can someone please show me the link so I can download the forms that Bill mentioned on his book?

Thanks,
Glenda


      
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From garyrobin2 at cox.net  Sun Mar  8 17:15:08 2009
From: garyrobin2 at cox.net (Gary Stalians)
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 14:15:08 -0700
Subject: [5-DayForum] Makaha Valley Towers
Message-ID: <585CF94C8FF9432F929E8CE7D13DBF17@PCGARY>

Hello,

We live in California and need to sell our condo in Hawaii.  It is located on the Leeward side in the city of Waianae in the neighborhood of Makaha on Oahu.

Has any one sold a home in Hawaii using the 5-Day method?  

Also, does any one know how we could find a consultant who could do this 5-Day method for us since we don't live there?

Appreciate any comments or help you can provide.

Thank you.
Gary Stalians
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From guy at alternatellc.com  Sun Mar  8 22:55:33 2009
From: guy at alternatellc.com (Guy Prudhomme)
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 22:55:33 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] PLanned 5 day sale in Virginia
Message-ID: <200903090225.n292Pg6H011497@atmailx10.tmomail.net>

Hi Bill,

 

I am planning a 5 day sale on a rental which I own on March 21 and have
started preparation. I am not under pressure to sell but looking at the
results on the forum I wonder if I should go ahead.what do you think? 

 

Secondly, there is a tenant in the house until June 30th, is it a
disadvantage to try to sell with 3 months of a rental contract remaining?

 

Thanks

 

Guy

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From bill at effros.com  Sun Mar  8 23:40:21 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 23:40:21 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] PLanned 5 day sale in Virginia
In-Reply-To: <200903090225.n292Pg6H011497@atmailx10.tmomail.net>
References: <200903090225.n292Pg6H011497@atmailx10.tmomail.net>
Message-ID: <49B48FA5.5040104@effros.com>

Guy,

When to sell is not my area of expertise.  You pick the weekend, 5 Days 
later it's gone at the current market price.

Get the renter out first.  They sometimes feel there is an advantage in 
hurting your sale so they can continue to rent.

When you feel the time is right, run the 5 day sale.  Don't run it 
months early.  Don't run it months late.

Bill Effros
Author



Guy Prudhomme wrote:
>
> Hi Bill,
>
>  
>
> I am planning a 5 day sale on a rental which I own on March 21 and 
> have started preparation. I am not under pressure to sell but looking 
> at the results on the forum I wonder if I should go ahead...what do 
> you think?
>
>  
>
> Secondly, there is a tenant in the house until June 30^th , is it a 
> disadvantage to try to sell with 3 months of a rental contract remaining?
>
>  
>
> Thanks
>
>  
>
> Guy
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
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From real.estate.professor at hotmail.com  Mon Mar  9 01:22:00 2009
From: real.estate.professor at hotmail.com (Kyle Cascioli)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 00:22:00 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] Denver Lofts 5 Day Sale
Message-ID: <BLU122-W517AE62261964BB3F6811CB4A00@phx.gbl>


Hi Everyone:

 

We just wrapped up our round robin bidding sessions - they lasted 4.5 hours.

 

A very successful weekend.

 

http://www.denverloftsauction.com/auction-room.html

 

I'm tired but will provide update and details later this week.

 

Cheers,

 

Kyle Cascioli

www.AuctionBySeller.com

www.AuctionByAgent.com 

www.AuctionByBuilder.com 

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live? Groups: Create an online spot for your favorite groups to meet.
http://windowslive.com/online/groups?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_groups_032009
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From guy at alternatellc.com  Mon Mar  9 06:38:37 2009
From: guy at alternatellc.com (Guy Prudhomme)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 06:38:37 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum]  5 Day Sale in Manhattan
Message-ID: <200903090945.n299jn3S001427@atmailx09.tmomail.net>

Hi Glenda,

 

Click on Sample Templates on the main page of the website.

 

Good Luck

 

Guy Prudhomme

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From bill at effros.com  Mon Mar  9 11:30:10 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 11:30:10 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Denver Lofts 5 Day Sale
In-Reply-To: <BLU122-W517AE62261964BB3F6811CB4A00@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU122-W517AE62261964BB3F6811CB4A00@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <49B53602.1000404@effros.com>

Congratulations, Kyle,


Bill Effros
Author


Kyle Cascioli wrote:
> Hi Everyone:
>  
> We just wrapped up our round robin bidding sessions - they lasted 4.5 
> hours.
>  
> A very successful weekend.
>  
> http://www.denverloftsauction.com/auction-room.html
>  
> I'm tired but will provide update and details later this week.
>  
> Cheers,
>  
> Kyle Cascioli
> www.AuctionBySeller.com <http://www.auctionbyseller.com/>
> www.AuctionByAgent.com <http://www.auctionbyagent.com/>
> www.AuctionByBuilder.com <http://www.auctionbybuilder.com/>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Windows Live? Groups: Create an online spot for your favorite groups 
> to meet. Check it out. 
> <http://windowslive.com/online/groups?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_groups_032009>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
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From real.estate.professor at hotmail.com  Mon Mar  9 11:58:30 2009
From: real.estate.professor at hotmail.com (Kyle Cascioli)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 10:58:30 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] Denver Lofts 5 Day Sale
In-Reply-To: <49B53602.1000404@effros.com>
References: <BLU122-W517AE62261964BB3F6811CB4A00@phx.gbl>
	<49B53602.1000404@effros.com>
Message-ID: <BLU122-W278DEA4FF942069536FF36B4A00@phx.gbl>


Thanks Bill ... it's never easy and when the tough decisions come we default to the wisdom of your methodology.

 

It really works ...

 

Kyle Cascioli

www.AuctionBySeller.com 
 


Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 11:30:10 -0400
From: bill at effros.com
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Denver Lofts 5 Day Sale

Congratulations, Kyle,


Bill Effros
Author


Kyle Cascioli wrote: 


Hi Everyone:
 
We just wrapped up our round robin bidding sessions - they lasted 4.5 hours.
 
A very successful weekend.
 
http://www.denverloftsauction.com/auction-room.html
 
I'm tired but will provide update and details later this week.
 
Cheers,
 
Kyle Cascioli
www.AuctionBySeller.com
www.AuctionByAgent.com 
www.AuctionByBuilder.com 



Windows Live? Groups: Create an online spot for your favorite groups to meet. Check it out. 
_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
  
_________________________________________________________________
Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail?. 
http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme
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From nkhouri at cfl.rr.com  Mon Mar  9 12:03:32 2009
From: nkhouri at cfl.rr.com (Naji)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 12:03:32 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker
Message-ID: <80D244F41801405CA51CFC6CA4752F36@NSKHome>

Good article regarding the NAR and their monopolistic hold. This was written
in 2005 and many laws and lawsuits against the NAR have been won since then
that have changed a few things but much more needs to be done to have a fair
system:

 

http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/public/workshops/rewcom/213351.htm

 

 

 

 

 

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From dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com  Mon Mar  9 12:15:46 2009
From: dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com (Don Lynch)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 12:15:46 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker
In-Reply-To: <80D244F41801405CA51CFC6CA4752F36@NSKHome>
References: <80D244F41801405CA51CFC6CA4752F36@NSKHome>
Message-ID: <17DB3D6863FC46918ABC03B6AFA6A494@Main>

I don't know what your problem  is with realtors. Maybe you need to team up with Obama and go after doctors, lawyers, plumbers, iron workers, etc. etc. If you don't like realtors...DON'T USE THEM! And I don't know where you get your figures from because I work my butt off to makeover $50k....it isn't as easy as you think. MLS is a proprietary system set up for realtors. If you want access to sales  go to the tax records and assemble the info yourself...this work and effort is not FREE! Again, if you think realtors are ripping you off, don't use them.

Signed, a hard working honest realtor...
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Naji 
  To: 5-dayforum at howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
  Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:03 PM
  Subject: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker


  Good article regarding the NAR and their monopolistic hold. This was written in 2005 and many laws and lawsuits against the NAR have been won since then that have changed a few things but much more needs to be done to have a fair system:

   

  http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/public/workshops/rewcom/213351.htm

   

   

   

   

   



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  5-DayForum mailing list
  5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
  http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

Donald C. Lynch
500 Smokey Hollow Drive
Waxhaw, NC 28173
(704) 843-1392 - Office
(704) 243-3971 - fax
(407) 257-7845 - cell
(800) 880-7845
(704) 843-8325 - home
dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/
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From rapisardi at tmail.com  Mon Mar  9 12:26:57 2009
From: rapisardi at tmail.com (Gabe Rapisardi)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 12:26:57 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Denver Lofts 5 Day Sale
In-Reply-To: <49B53602.1000404@effros.com>
References: <BLU122-W517AE62261964BB3F6811CB4A00@phx.gbl>
	<49B53602.1000404@effros.com>
Message-ID: <1236616021.228D33AC@bd7.dngr.org>

Please remove me from this email forum thankyou
--rapisardi

From nkhouri at cfl.rr.com  Mon Mar  9 12:38:02 2009
From: nkhouri at cfl.rr.com (Naji)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 12:38:02 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker
In-Reply-To: <17DB3D6863FC46918ABC03B6AFA6A494@Main>
References: <80D244F41801405CA51CFC6CA4752F36@NSKHome>
	<17DB3D6863FC46918ABC03B6AFA6A494@Main>
Message-ID: <9631F7563E2E46FDBD0B31464B83A86D@NSKHome>

Dear PO'd Realtor,

 

I don't have a problem with ALL Realtors. I have a problem with Realtors
that charge a commission due to the built-in conflict of interest. I will
continue to use Realtors that charge a fair FLAT FEE for their services.

 

-          Doctors - No commissions

-          Attorneys - No commissions

-          Plumbers - No commissions

-          Iron Workers - No commissions

-          Etc.

 

If a doctor, attorney, plumber, or iron worker was to charge 6% of the
average American's largest asset, I would not use them either. As for the
MLS, the cost associated with using the MLS is minimal for any licensed real
estate agent, plus you don't have to be part of NAR or Local Realtor
Association to have access to MLS. Additionally, gathering all the
"information" you are talking about takes minutes online.

 

If you're not charging a FLAT FEE for your services, you automatically have
a built-in conflict of interest, period!! Just like the financial advisor
that doesn't charge a flat fee, the car salesperson, the annuity agent, etc.

 

My agent charges a FLAT FEE (Full service agent) of 2,995 regardless of the
sale price. Which means, that she gets 2,995 for a house that sells for 200K
or 2Million whether she finds the buyer or another agent finds the buyer.
Hence, NO CONFLICT OF INTEREST and every home gets the same amount of HARD
WORK!!

 

Best wishes,

 

-Naji

 

 

 

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of Don Lynch
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:16 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

I don't know what your problem  is with realtors. Maybe you need to team up
with Obama and go after doctors, lawyers, plumbers, iron workers, etc. etc.
If you don't like realtors...DON'T USE THEM! And I don't know where you get
your figures from because I work my butt off to makeover $50k....it isn't as
easy as you think. MLS is a proprietary system set up for realtors. If you
want access to sales  go to the tax records and assemble the info
yourself...this work and effort is not FREE! Again, if you think realtors
are ripping you off, don't use them.

 

Signed, a hard working honest realtor...

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Naji <mailto:nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>  

To: 5-dayforum at howtosellyourhomein5days.com 

Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:03 PM

Subject: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

Good article regarding the NAR and their monopolistic hold. This was written
in 2005 and many laws and lawsuits against the NAR have been won since then
that have changed a few things but much more needs to be done to have a fair
system:

 

http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/public/workshops/rewcom/213351.htm

 

 

 

 

 


  _____  


_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

Donald C. Lynch
500 Smokey Hollow Drive
Waxhaw, NC 28173
(704) 843-1392 - Office
(704) 243-3971 - fax
(407) 257-7845 - cell
(800) 880-7845
(704) 843-8325 - home
dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/

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From wayne at capecoralinvestmentproperties.com  Mon Mar  9 11:59:37 2009
From: wayne at capecoralinvestmentproperties.com (Wayne Giese)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 11:59:37 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] My First 5-day sale
Message-ID: <000001c9a0d0$0e567a80$2b036f80$@com>

I am an investor in the Cape Coral, Florida market who has been picking up
home that

Have a 225K note for 45-50K. Are main exit strategy is to rehab and sell to
home owners.

For my first sale I am taking a home with no rehab work and running the
sale. Does any 

One have any resource or ideas on making this first sale a success. 

 

Wayne Giese

(813) 482-5688

wayne at capecoralinvestmentproperties.com

 

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From rosemarie-fred at mindspring.com  Mon Mar  9 13:29:32 2009
From: rosemarie-fred at mindspring.com (rosemarie-fred)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 13:29:32 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] My First 5-day sale
References: <000001c9a0d0$0e567a80$2b036f80$@com>
Message-ID: <7CD8F005DD0A41FC9BF551F61BD8A7CE@rosemarifv6onv>

Very best of luck to you. Read the book, and keep posting questions on the forum as you go. Read the archives, too. If you are successful (even if you are not!) I want to talk to you about selling a property we own in your area - we could pay you for helping us out with a 5-day sale.
Rosemarie
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Wayne Giese 
  To: 5-dayforum at howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
  Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 11:59 AM
  Subject: [5-DayForum] My First 5-day sale


  I am an investor in the Cape Coral, Florida market who has been picking up home that

  Have a 225K note for 45-50K. Are main exit strategy is to rehab and sell to home owners.

  For my first sale I am taking a home with no rehab work and running the sale. Does any 

  One have any resource or ideas on making this first sale a success. 

   

  Wayne Giese

  (813) 482-5688

  wayne at capecoralinvestmentproperties.com

   



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  5-DayForum mailing list
  5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
  http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
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From wayne at capecoralinvestmentproperties.com  Mon Mar  9 16:26:49 2009
From: wayne at capecoralinvestmentproperties.com (Wayne Giese)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 16:26:49 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] My First 5-day sale
In-Reply-To: <7CD8F005DD0A41FC9BF551F61BD8A7CE@rosemarifv6onv>
References: <000001c9a0d0$0e567a80$2b036f80$@com>
	<7CD8F005DD0A41FC9BF551F61BD8A7CE@rosemarifv6onv>
Message-ID: <79f0ce3d0903091326p248f4efoa76489816885c456@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, for the kind wecome, I'll keep you posted.
On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 1:29 PM, rosemarie-fred <
rosemarie-fred at mindspring.com> wrote:

>  Very best of luck to you. Read the book, and keep posting questions on
> the forum as you go. Read the archives, too. If you are successful (even if
> you are not!) I want to talk to you about selling a property we own in your
> area - we could pay you for helping us out with a 5-day sale.
> Rosemarie
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Wayne Giese <wayne at capecoralinvestmentproperties.com>
> *To:* 5-dayforum at howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> *Sent:* Monday, March 09, 2009 11:59 AM
> *Subject:* [5-DayForum] My First 5-day sale
>
>  I am an investor in the Cape Coral, Florida market who has been picking
> up home that
>
> Have a 225K note for 45-50K. Are main exit strategy is to rehab and sell to
> home owners.
>
> For my first sale I am taking a home with no rehab work and running the
> sale. Does any
>
> One have any resource or ideas on making this first sale a success.
>
>
>
> Wayne Giese
>
> (813) 482-5688
>
> wayne at capecoralinvestmentproperties.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>


-- 
Wayne Giese
(813) 482-5688
wayne at capecoralinvestmentproperties.com
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From lili at lilioday.com  Mon Mar  9 16:45:13 2009
From: lili at lilioday.com (O'Day, Lili)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 16:45:13 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] My First 5-day sale
In-Reply-To: <79f0ce3d0903091326p248f4efoa76489816885c456@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E8687DEB9C959E488879896C3F6D001121698955@winxbeus12.exchange.xchg>

I"m a real estate broker in the Naples/Marco Island FL area.  I am planning to do a 5 day sale this month.  Has anyone done a 5 day on a short sale?  I need to disclose that any offer is subject to bank approval.  I would think that just documenting the 5-day sale process could help sway an asset manager, depending on what the price comes in at and how far off the price is from the comparable sales from the last few months. Since the bank pays the realtor commissions and expenses on a short sale, I don't think there's a  downside to letting the brokers bring in their prospects.  Has anyone gone out to the real estate brokers to encourage them to bring their buyers on a 5 -day under these circumstances?

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated!

Lili

Lili O'Day
Broker Associate
CRS,GRI,E-PRO,TRC
CIPS,CSC,FIABCI
Re/Max Results
239-449-8460 direct
708-878-9097 cell
lili at lilioday.com<mailto:lili at lilioday.com>
http://www.lilioday.remax.com<http://www.lilioday.remax.com/>



________________________________
From: 5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Giese
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 3:27 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] My First 5-day sale

Thanks, for the kind wecome, I'll keep you posted.
On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 1:29 PM, rosemarie-fred <rosemarie-fred at mindspring.com<mailto:rosemarie-fred at mindspring.com>> wrote:
Very best of luck to you. Read the book, and keep posting questions on the forum as you go. Read the archives, too. If you are successful (even if you are not!) I want to talk to you about selling a property we own in your area - we could pay you for helping us out with a 5-day sale.
Rosemarie
----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne Giese<mailto:wayne at capecoralinvestmentproperties.com>
To: 5-dayforum at howtosellyourhomein5days.com<mailto:5-dayforum at howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 11:59 AM
Subject: [5-DayForum] My First 5-day sale


I am an investor in the Cape Coral, Florida market who has been picking up home that

Have a 225K note for 45-50K. Are main exit strategy is to rehab and sell to home owners.

For my first sale I am taking a home with no rehab work and running the sale. Does any

One have any resource or ideas on making this first sale a success.



Wayne Giese

(813) 482-5688

wayne at capecoralinvestmentproperties.com<mailto:wayne at capecoralinvestmentproperties.com>



________________________________

_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com<mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com<mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum




--
Wayne Giese
(813) 482-5688
wayne at capecoralinvestmentproperties.com<mailto:wayne at capecoralinvestmentproperties.com>
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From roxanneinvestments at gmail.com  Mon Mar  9 17:04:48 2009
From: roxanneinvestments at gmail.com (Jill Greenberg)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 14:04:48 -0700
Subject: [5-DayForum] Can 5 day sale be applied to high-end house
In-Reply-To: <49B2A99E.4090701@effros.com>
References: <ba9664520903061225p1a7fad34mad072f36578d1290@mail.gmail.com>
	<49B2A99E.4090701@effros.com>
Message-ID: <ba9664520903091404m3f8f7b1fx45d2e50d33757949@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Bill for your supportive comments.
A clarifying question - Actually, in our case, the "smaller" unit (2200
square feet versus 3300) is the upper unit with an incredible view of SF.
The lower unit is more spacious but the views don't compare.  We think the
upper unit will sell for more than the lower unit.

Based on that, would you first apply the 5-day sale to the lower (larger but
probably less expensive) unit?

Also, these will be sold following this major renovation.  The units would
basically be totally empty of furnishings.  Would you recommend staging?  In
reading your book, I thought your chapter on preparing the house for the
weekend was consistent with staging and making the place look as nice as
possible.  Am I correct?

All the best,
Tony

On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:

> Jill,
>
> The price issue is not an issue.  In San Francisco, where 2 million dollar
> units are not unusual, you will have no difficulty attracting 3 real buyers
> for the units you are offering.  (The same structure in Utica, NY would have
> a problem because there are not likely to be 3 real buyers for such a
> property in that place at this time.)
>
> What you MUST do is make a clear offer.  (The 8 line standard classified ad
> is all you need.)  Do not let people "mix and match" offers.  One buyer
> wants the whole property, another the small unit, another the large
> one...This won't work!)
>
> If I were you, I would offer the small unit first and only.  This can be
> done before both units are ready to sell.  Set up the small one first, run a
> 5-Day Sale--no promises that the big one will be offered for sale in the
> same manner--see what happens.  If you can keep people out of the big unit
> -- do so -- don't even mention it.
>
> I would offer the small unit for $749,500 or best offer.  I would offer it
> in the SF Chronicle -- or whatever the big city paper is at this point, and
> Craig's List.  If you fail to get 25 responses from just these 2 classified
> ads by Friday night -- pull the ads.  Let everyone know you are not going to
> run the sale, get back to us on this list.
>
> SF, NYC, and a band in the middle of the country are the last to be hit by
> this housing depression.  It's not likely to be over before it hits us,
> too.  Your 5-Day Ad will let you know if SF prices are actually declining,
> or not.  This will enable you to know what to do next.
>
> If you are happy with the results of your 5-Day Sale, offer the larger
> unit.  In my experience, you will get a larger turn-out, and a higher final
> price because many participants will know the first unit offered was
> actually sold to the high bidder, and they will have "bidder's remorse" that
> they didn't offer as much as they were prepared to pay.  Once this unit is
> gone, it's gone--and there won't be any more.
>
> This is a place where we think out loud -- feel free to keep asking
> questions.
>
> Bill Effros
> Author
>
>
>
> Jill Greenberg wrote:
>
>   I am new to the 5-day concept, but after reading this book, it sounds
> GREAT!!
>
> We are doing a major high-end renovation to a 2-unit TIC in San Francisco.
> We expect this property to sell for 3.8-4 million dollars.  We could sell
> the whole property or each TIC unit separately - eg 1.8 and 2.2 million for
> the 2 units.
>
> Has anyone sold anything this expensive using the 5-day technique?  Has
> anyone sold a 2-unit building (with option of selling each unit separately)
> using this technique?
>
> If I use the 50% rule, would my initial starting price for the whole thing
> be 2 million dollars (or 1,999,740 - ?? is this the magic number for this
> amount??).
>
> Would I need a bigger ad to cover both possibilities (whole thing vs each
> separately) or should I just have 2 separate ads?
>
> We won't be ready for this sale for several months, but I'm trying to plan
> for the sale now.
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.comhttp://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>
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From soakupthesuninc at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  9 17:20:33 2009
From: soakupthesuninc at yahoo.com (Soak Up the Sun)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 14:20:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker
References: <80D244F41801405CA51CFC6CA4752F36@NSKHome>
	<17DB3D6863FC46918ABC03B6AFA6A494@Main>
	<9631F7563E2E46FDBD0B31464B83A86D@NSKHome>
Message-ID: <663316.14472.qm@web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I don't usually have a lot to say on the forums, however, I read all the posts.
I have to say, if you think Doctors and Lawyers charge flat fees, you are sorely mistaken.
I'm glad that you are happy with the flat fee real estate person that you are using, and hope that they continue to meet your needs.
Lauri




________________________________
From: Naji <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 11:38:02 AM
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 
Dear PO ?d
Realtor,
 
I don?t have a problem with ALL
Realtors? I have a problem with Realtors that charge a commission due to
the built-in conflict of interest? I will continue to use Realtors that
charge a fair FLAT FEE for their services.
 
-          Doctors ?
No commissions
-          Attorneys
? No commissions
-          Plumbers
? No commissions
-          Iron
Workers ? No commissions
-          Etc?
 
If a doctor, attorney, plumber, or iron
worker was to charge 6% of the average American?s largest asset, I would
not use them either. As for the MLS, the cost associated with using the MLS is
minimal for any licensed real estate agent, plus you don?t have to be
part of NAR or Local Realtor Association to have access to MLS?
Additionally, gathering all the ?information? you are talking about
takes minutes online.
 
If you?re not charging a FLAT FEE
for your services, you automatically have a built-in conflict of interest,
period!! Just like the financial advisor that doesn?t charge a flat fee,
the car salesperson, the annuity agent, etc?
 
My agent charges a FLAT FEE (Full service
agent) of 2,995 regardless of the sale price? Which means, that she gets
2,995 for a house that sells for 200K or 2Million whether she finds the buyer
or another agent finds the buyer? Hence, NO CONFLICT OF INTEREST and
every home gets the same amount of HARD WORK!!
 
Best wishes,
 
-Naji
 
 
 
 

________________________________
 
From:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Don Lynch
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:16
PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you
shouldn't protect the broker
 
I don't know what your problem  is with realtors. Maybe you need
to team up with Obama and go after doctors, lawyers, plumbers, iron workers,
etc. etc. If you don't like realtors...DON'T USE THEM! And I don't know
where you get your figures from because I work my butt off to makeover
$50k....it isn't as easy as you think. MLS is a proprietary system set up for
realtors. If you want access to sales  go to the tax records and assemble
the info yourself...this work and effort is not FREE! Again, if you think
realtors are ripping you off, don't use them.
 
Signed, a hard working honest realtor...
----- Original Message ----- 
From:Naji 
To:5-dayforum at howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
Sent:Monday, March 09,
2009 12:03 PM
Subject:[5-DayForum] Why
you shouldn't protect the broker
 
Good article regarding the NAR and their monopolistic
hold? This was written in 2005 and many laws and lawsuits against the NAR
have been won since then that have changed a few things but much more needs to
be done to have a fair system:
 
http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/public/workshops/rewcom/213351.htm
 
 
 
 
 

________________________________
 
_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
Donald C. Lynch
500 Smokey Hollow Drive
Waxhaw , NC  28173
(704) 843-1392 - Office
(704) 243-3971 - fax
(407) 257-7845 - cell
(800) 880-7845
(704) 843-8325 - home
dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/
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From rcutcher at austin.rr.com  Mon Mar  9 17:37:51 2009
From: rcutcher at austin.rr.com (RC Cutcher)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 16:37:51 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum]  My First 5-day sale
Message-ID: <001101c9a0ff$4cf9be30$0201a8c0@RCCutcher>

I"m a real estate broker in the Naples/Marco Island FL area.  I am planning to do a 5 day sale this month.  Has anyone done a 5 day on a short sale?  I need to disclose that any offer is subject to bank approval.  I would think that just documenting the 5-day sale process could help sway an asset manager, depending on what the price comes in at and how far off the price is from the comparable sales from the last few months. Since the bank pays the realtor commissions and expenses on a short sale, I don't think there's a  downside to letting the brokers bring in their prospects.  Has anyone gone out to the real estate brokers to encourage them to bring their buyers on a 5 -day under these circumstances?

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated!

Lili


I've done several  Short Sales recently, all using my own developed Express Sale which is modeled somewhat after the 5-Day Sale.  If you have done several Short Sales, you know the importance of pricing small as compared to the vast majority of  Realtors who are unaware of the Broker Price Opinion that comes in just before the bank gives the famous 'consent and agreement,' to your deal.   The BPO should always aim at Fair Market Value with the accepted offer being approximatley 90% of FMV.   When you list the property in the MLS, always list a larger price first, then change to your sales price a day or two later, because the original list price is always considered more important to the bank than almost any other piece of information on the MLS. 

Since the Banks seem to always begin negotiations with a 'No' to whatever the contract amount being   submitted, it is advisable to enlist your own  Loss Mitigator who has experience on a daily basis dealing with banks.  

Hope that helps.

RC Cutcher
Realtor, ABR
Austin Texas Homes, LLC
www.austintexashomes.com
512-848-4449

The Short Sale/Foreclosure Workshop
Trec Provider No. 0623
Course No. 03-00-100-7436 
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From jamesfleming.realestate at gmail.com  Mon Mar  9 20:12:20 2009
From: jamesfleming.realestate at gmail.com (James Fleming)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 17:12:20 -0700
Subject: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker
In-Reply-To: <663316.14472.qm@web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <80D244F41801405CA51CFC6CA4752F36@NSKHome><17DB3D6863FC46918ABC03B6AFA6A494@Main><9631F7563E2E46FDBD0B31464B83A86D@NSKHome>
	<663316.14472.qm@web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9735E643D89246ADA470C42B4D484250@jamesfleming>

Thank you Lauri for your posting.  I agree with you that the portrayal of
doctors and lawyers as professionals who charge simple flat fees is
incorrect.  Anyone who has ever worked at a law firm or medical facility
knows better.  Anyone who has ever had serious legal or medical bills knows
better.  

 

Furthermore, lawyers and doctors are not paid based on results.  Whether a
lawyer wins or loses, you pay.  Whether a doctor heals you or not, you pay.
They get paid handsomely whether they succeed or fail.  It would be
difficult to design an arrangement more laden with potential conflict of
interest issues.  If you doubt this, just look at the amount of mal-practice
and E & O coverage that these professions carry.  

 

Naji, to emphasize the inequity of a 6% Realtor commission, states that "If
a doctor, attorney, plumber, or iron worker was to charge 6% of the average
American's largest asset, I would not use them either."  Sounds compelling
until you really think about it.  What doctors and lawyers (I'm leaving out
plumbers and iron workers because, in my opinion, they were included to make
a point but really have no place in the argument) charge is often several
times more than 100% of the average Americans largest asset.  Think about
it.  How many bankruptcies are filed every day by average Americans because
of medical and/or legal bills?  Actually, it might eliminate a large
percentage of bankruptcy filings if we could limit our medical/legal bills
to 6% of our most valuable asset in the event of major health and legal
issues.  I like it.

 

Turning to conflicts of interest, the laws of agency in real estate
transactions were written largely for the purpose of eliminating conflicts
of interest.  These laws now apply in every state.  In practice today,
Realtors either represent sellers or they represent buyers.  The exception
to this occurs when the Realtor acts as a "dual agent".   In instances of
dual agency, however, the Realtor must act neutrally.  S/he may not advocate
for either party, but instead must simply conduct that transaction at the
direction of both being careful not to be pulled into conflicts of interest
along the way.  If one comes up, it must be disclosed to both parties.

 

Naji, however, points to a few examples of conflicts of interest that are
different from above.  I'd like to address a couple of them.  Naji mentions,
for example, "If you're not charging a FLAT FEE for your services, you
automatically have a built-in conflict of interest, period!! Just like the
financial advisor that doesn't charge a flat fee, the car salesperson, the
annuity agent, etc."  I would suggest that whether any of these people are
paid on a commission or on a flat fee basis, their job is to sell you
products and services.  Your job as the buyer is to make informed decisions.
The sales people do not represent you, the buyer, in any of these examples.
If Naji's point is that the sales person will try to sell the product or
service that pays the most commission, then again, it is up to the buyer to
sort through this and make an informed decision.

 

The advantage in real estate is that you can have an advocate whether you
are a buyer or a seller.  Seller's agents manage their listings with the
goal of pricing them properly and marketing them extensively.  They never
know what the mix of buyers is at any point in time.  When a buyer comes
along, they do everything they can to promote the best interests of their
client - the seller.  Equally, when a buyer's agent presents an offer on
behalf of a client, it is the buyer's interests that the agent promotes
above all.  Each of these agents has a fiduciary responsibility to their
respective client.  This is true whether your Realtor is working for a flat
fee or for a commission.

 

As a practical consideration, many flat fee brokerages are what are called
"limited service" brokerages.  In other words, they offer a menu of services
from which their clients can choose.  Clients only pay for what they get.
For example, the brokerage may have one fee for listing your property in the
MLS, another for placing a sign in your yard, another for flyers, another
for a lockbox, another for advertising online, another for showing your
property to buyers, another for conducting open houses, yet another for
negotiating the sale with the buyer's agent, and so on.  Generally, firms
with this approach find it hard to stay in business as evidenced by the
recent (and third) bankruptcy filing of Help-U-Sell.  They tend to appeal to
uninformed first- time sellers or financially strapped sellers who are
desperate and don't know what they don't know.  

 

These two groups of sellers typically believe that real estate agents are
paid too much for the services they provide.  They typically argue their
point by using hypothetical comparisons. They point to the associated costs
of sales made with and without full service Realtors.  They either point to
the increased money that one can make if a Realtor is excluded from the
equation, or the decreased amount they can get for their house while still
making the same net amount if they had sold it for more using a Realtor.  In
the abstract, the same argument can be made for representing yourself in
court, or doing your own dental fillings.  In the real world, however, ALL
of life's issues come into play.  People, who make decisions based upon
hypothetical or artificial constructs, greatly increase their chances of
unintended consequences.  Unfortunately, these are often the same people
who, as kids, had to discover for themselves the perils of touching a hot
stove.

 

Jim Fleming, Realtor and Lecturer

Vancouver, WA

 

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourho
mein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtose
llyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Soak Up the Sun
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 2:21 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

I don't usually have a lot to say on the forums, however, I read all the
posts.
I have to say, if you think Doctors and Lawyers charge flat fees, you are
sorely mistaken.
I'm glad that you are happy with the flat fee real estate person that you
are using, and hope that they continue to meet your needs.
Lauri

 

  _____  

From: Naji <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
<5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 11:38:02 AM
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

Dear PO 'd Realtor,

 

I don't have a problem with ALL Realtors. I have a problem with Realtors
that charge a commission due to the built-in conflict of interest. I will
continue to use Realtors that charge a fair FLAT FEE for their services.

 

-          Doctors - No commissions

-          Attorneys - No commissions

-          Plumbers - No commissions

-          Iron Workers - No commissions

-          Etc.

 

If a doctor, attorney, plumber, or iron worker was to charge 6% of the
average American's largest asset, I would not use them either. As for the
MLS, the cost associated with using the MLS is minimal for any licensed real
estate agent, plus you don't have to be part of NAR or Local Realtor
Association to have access to MLS. Additionally, gathering all the
"information" you are talking about takes minutes online.

 

If you're not charging a FLAT FEE for your services, you automatically have
a built-in conflict of interest, period!! Just like the financial advisor
that doesn't charge a flat fee, the car salesperson, the annuity agent, etc.

 

My agent charges a FLAT FEE (Full service agent) of 2,995 regardless of the
sale price. Which means, that she gets 2,995 for a house that sells for 200K
or 2Million whether she finds the buyer or another agent finds the buyer.
Hence, NO CONFLICT OF INTEREST and every home gets the same amount of HARD
WORK!!

 

Best wishes,

 

-Naji

 

 

 

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of Don Lynch
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:16 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

I don't know what your problem  is with realtors. Maybe you need to team up
with Obama and go after doctors, lawyers, plumbers, iron workers, etc. etc.
If you don't like realtors...DON'T USE THEM! And I don't know where you get
your figures from because I work my butt off to makeover $50k....it isn't as
easy as you think. MLS is a proprietary system set up for realtors. If you
want access to sales  go to the tax records and assemble the info
yourself...this work and effort is not FREE! Again, if you think realtors
are ripping you off, don't use them.

 

Signed, a hard working honest realtor...

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Naji <mailto:nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>  

To: 5-dayforum at howtosellyourhomein5days.com 

Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:03 PM

Subject: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

Good article regarding the NAR and their monopolistic hold. This was written
in 2005 and many laws and lawsuits against the NAR have been won since then
that have changed a few things but much more needs to be done to have a fair
system:

 

http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/public/workshops/rewcom/213351.htm

 

 

 

 

 


  _____  


_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

Donald C. Lynch
500 Smokey Hollow Drive
Waxhaw , NC 28173
(704) 843-1392 - Office
(704) 243-3971 - fax
(407) 257-7845 - cell
(800) 880-7845
(704) 843-8325 - home
dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/

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From nkhouri at cfl.rr.com  Mon Mar  9 20:33:53 2009
From: nkhouri at cfl.rr.com (Naji)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 20:33:53 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker
In-Reply-To: <663316.14472.qm@web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <80D244F41801405CA51CFC6CA4752F36@NSKHome><17DB3D6863FC46918ABC03B6AFA6A494@Main><9631F7563E2E46FDBD0B31464B83A86D@NSKHome>
	<663316.14472.qm@web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <39C1850702084FC28B2213C051ACF04E@NSKHome>

Correction. I never said Attorneys or Doctors charge a flat fee. I said NO
COMMISSIONS!

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of Soak Up the Sun
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 5:21 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

I don't usually have a lot to say on the forums, however, I read all the
posts.
I have to say, if you think Doctors and Lawyers charge flat fees, you are
sorely mistaken.
I'm glad that you are happy with the flat fee real estate person that you
are using, and hope that they continue to meet your needs.
Lauri

 

  _____  

From: Naji <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
<5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 11:38:02 AM
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

Dear PO 'd Realtor,

 

I don't have a problem with ALL Realtors. I have a problem with Realtors
that charge a commission due to the built-in conflict of interest. I will
continue to use Realtors that charge a fair FLAT FEE for their services.

 

-          Doctors - No commissions

-          Attorneys - No commissions

-          Plumbers - No commissions

-          Iron Workers - No commissions

-          Etc.

 

If a doctor, attorney, plumber, or iron worker was to charge 6% of the
average American's largest asset, I would not use them either. As for the
MLS, the cost associated with using the MLS is minimal for any licensed real
estate agent, plus you don't have to be part of NAR or Local Realtor
Association to have access to MLS. Additionally, gathering all the
"information" you are talking about takes minutes online.

 

If you're not charging a FLAT FEE for your services, you automatically have
a built-in conflict of interest, period!! Just like the financial advisor
that doesn't charge a flat fee, the car salesperson, the annuity agent, etc.

 

My agent charges a FLAT FEE (Full service agent) of 2,995 regardless of the
sale price. Which means, that she gets 2,995 for a house that sells for 200K
or 2Million whether she finds the buyer or another agent finds the buyer.
Hence, NO CONFLICT OF INTEREST and every home gets the same amount of HARD
WORK!!

 

Best wishes,

 

-Naji

 

 

 

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of Don Lynch
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:16 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

I don't know what your problem  is with realtors. Maybe you need to team up
with Obama and go after doctors, lawyers, plumbers, iron workers, etc. etc.
If you don't like realtors...DON'T USE THEM! And I don't know where you get
your figures from because I work my butt off to makeover $50k....it isn't as
easy as you think. MLS is a proprietary system set up for realtors. If you
want access to sales  go to the tax records and assemble the info
yourself...this work and effort is not FREE! Again, if you think realtors
are ripping you off, don't use them.

 

Signed, a hard working honest realtor...

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Naji <mailto:nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>  

To: 5-dayforum at howtosellyourhomein5days.com 

Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:03 PM

Subject: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

Good article regarding the NAR and their monopolistic hold. This was written
in 2005 and many laws and lawsuits against the NAR have been won since then
that have changed a few things but much more needs to be done to have a fair
system:

 

http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/public/workshops/rewcom/213351.htm

 

 

 

 

 


  _____  


_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

Donald C. Lynch
500 Smokey Hollow Drive
Waxhaw , NC 28173
(704) 843-1392 - Office
(704) 243-3971 - fax
(407) 257-7845 - cell
(800) 880-7845
(704) 843-8325 - home
dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/

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From nkhouri at cfl.rr.com  Mon Mar  9 21:21:35 2009
From: nkhouri at cfl.rr.com (Naji)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 21:21:35 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker
In-Reply-To: <9735E643D89246ADA470C42B4D484250@jamesfleming>
References: <80D244F41801405CA51CFC6CA4752F36@NSKHome><17DB3D6863FC46918ABC03B6AFA6A494@Main><9631F7563E2E46FDBD0B31464B83A86D@NSKHome><663316.14472.qm@web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<9735E643D89246ADA470C42B4D484250@jamesfleming>
Message-ID: <BED67CC8F69342C08B53ACD4CE228990@NSKHome>

Jim,

 

Obviously I hit a sensitive nerve with many Realtors on this issue. You and
I know that in the Realtors world, it's all about protecting the commission,
period. So, let's not fool ourselves with the standard NAR BS and scare
tactics that's been circulating for many decades. The big stock brokerage
firms used to say the same thing about the E-Trade's and Ameritrade's of the
world. where are Bear Stearns and Merrill Lynch today? Same thing was said
about Wal-Mart, Amazon.com, Google, and many more industry leaders that
decided to get away from the antiquated business as usual model. 

 

Regarding conflict of interest. It doesn't matter how many laws are written,
or how many disclosures are signed, a conflict of interest automatically
exists. You don't get paid unless the house sells. Therefore, whether a sale
is a good move or a bad move for the buyer or seller, it doesn't matter
because you don't get paid if the sale doesn't close. I know this is
difficult to understand, but I think Author Upton Sinclair explains it best
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary
depends on him not understanding it."

 

Did you read Nine Pillars of the Citadel?

 

Every monopoly will eventually be broken. The stranglehold of the NAR will
as well.. The sooner the average American consumer gets educated the sooner
this will happen.

 

Best regards,

 

-Naji

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of James Fleming
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 8:12 PM
To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

Thank you Lauri for your posting.  I agree with you that the portrayal of
doctors and lawyers as professionals who charge simple flat fees is
incorrect.  Anyone who has ever worked at a law firm or medical facility
knows better.  Anyone who has ever had serious legal or medical bills knows
better.  

 

Furthermore, lawyers and doctors are not paid based on results.  Whether a
lawyer wins or loses, you pay.  Whether a doctor heals you or not, you pay.
They get paid handsomely whether they succeed or fail.  It would be
difficult to design an arrangement more laden with potential conflict of
interest issues.  If you doubt this, just look at the amount of mal-practice
and E & O coverage that these professions carry.  

 

Naji, to emphasize the inequity of a 6% Realtor commission, states that "If
a doctor, attorney, plumber, or iron worker was to charge 6% of the average
American's largest asset, I would not use them either."  Sounds compelling
until you really think about it.  What doctors and lawyers (I'm leaving out
plumbers and iron workers because, in my opinion, they were included to make
a point but really have no place in the argument) charge is often several
times more than 100% of the average Americans largest asset.  Think about
it.  How many bankruptcies are filed every day by average Americans because
of medical and/or legal bills?  Actually, it might eliminate a large
percentage of bankruptcy filings if we could limit our medical/legal bills
to 6% of our most valuable asset in the event of major health and legal
issues.  I like it.

 

Turning to conflicts of interest, the laws of agency in real estate
transactions were written largely for the purpose of eliminating conflicts
of interest.  These laws now apply in every state.  In practice today,
Realtors either represent sellers or they represent buyers.  The exception
to this occurs when the Realtor acts as a "dual agent".   In instances of
dual agency, however, the Realtor must act neutrally.  S/he may not advocate
for either party, but instead must simply conduct that transaction at the
direction of both being careful not to be pulled into conflicts of interest
along the way.  If one comes up, it must be disclosed to both parties.

 

Naji, however, points to a few examples of conflicts of interest that are
different from above.  I'd like to address a couple of them.  Naji mentions,
for example, "If you're not charging a FLAT FEE for your services, you
automatically have a built-in conflict of interest, period!! Just like the
financial advisor that doesn't charge a flat fee, the car salesperson, the
annuity agent, etc."  I would suggest that whether any of these people are
paid on a commission or on a flat fee basis, their job is to sell you
products and services.  Your job as the buyer is to make informed decisions.
The sales people do not represent you, the buyer, in any of these examples.
If Naji's point is that the sales person will try to sell the product or
service that pays the most commission, then again, it is up to the buyer to
sort through this and make an informed decision.

 

The advantage in real estate is that you can have an advocate whether you
are a buyer or a seller.  Seller's agents manage their listings with the
goal of pricing them properly and marketing them extensively.  They never
know what the mix of buyers is at any point in time.  When a buyer comes
along, they do everything they can to promote the best interests of their
client - the seller.  Equally, when a buyer's agent presents an offer on
behalf of a client, it is the buyer's interests that the agent promotes
above all.  Each of these agents has a fiduciary responsibility to their
respective client.  This is true whether your Realtor is working for a flat
fee or for a commission.

 

As a practical consideration, many flat fee brokerages are what are called
"limited service" brokerages.  In other words, they offer a menu of services
from which their clients can choose.  Clients only pay for what they get.
For example, the brokerage may have one fee for listing your property in the
MLS, another for placing a sign in your yard, another for flyers, another
for a lockbox, another for advertising online, another for showing your
property to buyers, another for conducting open houses, yet another for
negotiating the sale with the buyer's agent, and so on.  Generally, firms
with this approach find it hard to stay in business as evidenced by the
recent (and third) bankruptcy filing of Help-U-Sell.  They tend to appeal to
uninformed first- time sellers or financially strapped sellers who are
desperate and don't know what they don't know.  

 

These two groups of sellers typically believe that real estate agents are
paid too much for the services they provide.  They typically argue their
point by using hypothetical comparisons. They point to the associated costs
of sales made with and without full service Realtors.  They either point to
the increased money that one can make if a Realtor is excluded from the
equation, or the decreased amount they can get for their house while still
making the same net amount if they had sold it for more using a Realtor.  In
the abstract, the same argument can be made for representing yourself in
court, or doing your own dental fillings.  In the real world, however, ALL
of life's issues come into play.  People, who make decisions based upon
hypothetical or artificial constructs, greatly increase their chances of
unintended consequences.  Unfortunately, these are often the same people
who, as kids, had to discover for themselves the perils of touching a hot
stove.

 

Jim Fleming, Realtor and Lecturer

Vancouver, WA

 

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourho
mein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtose
llyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Soak Up the Sun
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 2:21 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

I don't usually have a lot to say on the forums, however, I read all the
posts.
I have to say, if you think Doctors and Lawyers charge flat fees, you are
sorely mistaken.
I'm glad that you are happy with the flat fee real estate person that you
are using, and hope that they continue to meet your needs.
Lauri

 

  _____  

From: Naji <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
<5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 11:38:02 AM
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

Dear PO 'd Realtor,

 

I don't have a problem with ALL Realtors. I have a problem with Realtors
that charge a commission due to the built-in conflict of interest. I will
continue to use Realtors that charge a fair FLAT FEE for their services.

 

-          Doctors - No commissions

-          Attorneys - No commissions

-          Plumbers - No commissions

-          Iron Workers - No commissions

-          Etc.

 

If a doctor, attorney, plumber, or iron worker was to charge 6% of the
average American's largest asset, I would not use them either. As for the
MLS, the cost associated with using the MLS is minimal for any licensed real
estate agent, plus you don't have to be part of NAR or Local Realtor
Association to have access to MLS. Additionally, gathering all the
"information" you are talking about takes minutes online.

 

If you're not charging a FLAT FEE for your services, you automatically have
a built-in conflict of interest, period!! Just like the financial advisor
that doesn't charge a flat fee, the car salesperson, the annuity agent, etc.

 

My agent charges a FLAT FEE (Full service agent) of 2,995 regardless of the
sale price. Which means, that she gets 2,995 for a house that sells for 200K
or 2Million whether she finds the buyer or another agent finds the buyer.
Hence, NO CONFLICT OF INTEREST and every home gets the same amount of HARD
WORK!!

 

Best wishes,

 

-Naji

 

 

 

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of Don Lynch
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:16 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

I don't know what your problem  is with realtors. Maybe you need to team up
with Obama and go after doctors, lawyers, plumbers, iron workers, etc. etc.
If you don't like realtors...DON'T USE THEM! And I don't know where you get
your figures from because I work my butt off to makeover $50k....it isn't as
easy as you think. MLS is a proprietary system set up for realtors. If you
want access to sales  go to the tax records and assemble the info
yourself...this work and effort is not FREE! Again, if you think realtors
are ripping you off, don't use them.

 

Signed, a hard working honest realtor...

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Naji <mailto:nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>  

To: 5-dayforum at howtosellyourhomein5days.com 

Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:03 PM

Subject: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

Good article regarding the NAR and their monopolistic hold. This was written
in 2005 and many laws and lawsuits against the NAR have been won since then
that have changed a few things but much more needs to be done to have a fair
system:

 

http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/public/workshops/rewcom/213351.htm

 

 

 

 

 


  _____  


_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

Donald C. Lynch
500 Smokey Hollow Drive
Waxhaw , NC 28173
(704) 843-1392 - Office
(704) 243-3971 - fax
(407) 257-7845 - cell
(800) 880-7845
(704) 843-8325 - home
dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/

-------------- next part --------------
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From dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com  Mon Mar  9 21:33:00 2009
From: dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com (Don Lynch)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 21:33:00 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker
In-Reply-To: <BED67CC8F69342C08B53ACD4CE228990@NSKHome>
References: <80D244F41801405CA51CFC6CA4752F36@NSKHome><17DB3D6863FC46918ABC03B6AFA6A494@Main><9631F7563E2E46FDBD0B31464B83A86D@NSKHome><663316.14472.qm@web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com><9735E643D89246ADA470C42B4D484250@jamesfleming>
	<BED67CC8F69342C08B53ACD4CE228990@NSKHome>
Message-ID: <DD98F4ED8AF64FB7AA5A8D92D488BB67@Main>

Naji, You HAVE struck a nerve because you don't know what you are talking about. The BS is spewing from where you stand. Again, I don't know what your problem with realtor's is (full service or otherwise) but I do know you have some kind of bone to pick, maybe some kind of envy. I bet you would have no trouble calling an agent to glean as much information about a property and even have him show it to you, and then turn around and circumvent him/her. Did I hit a nerve? Another question...when you are looking for a property to buy and you find out it is a FSBO do you automatically in your mind subtract 6% from the offer? I'll bet you do.

Signed, an honest hard working (with no conflict of interest, perceived or otherwise) realtor
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Naji 
  To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days' 
  Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 9:21 PM
  Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker


  Jim,

   

  Obviously I hit a sensitive nerve with many Realtors on this issue. You and I know that in the Realtors world, it's all about protecting the commission, period. So, let's not fool ourselves with the standard NAR BS and scare tactics that's been circulating for many decades. The big stock brokerage firms used to say the same thing about the E-Trade's and Ameritrade's of the world. where are Bear Stearns and Merrill Lynch today? Same thing was said about Wal-Mart, Amazon.com, Google, and many more industry leaders that decided to get away from the antiquated business as usual model. 

   

  Regarding conflict of interest. It doesn't matter how many laws are written, or how many disclosures are signed, a conflict of interest automatically exists. You don't get paid unless the house sells. Therefore, whether a sale is a good move or a bad move for the buyer or seller, it doesn't matter because you don't get paid if the sale doesn't close. I know this is difficult to understand, but I think Author Upton Sinclair explains it best "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on him not understanding it."

   

  Did you read Nine Pillars of the Citadel?

   

  Every monopoly will eventually be broken. The stranglehold of the NAR will as well.. The sooner the average American consumer gets educated the sooner this will happen.

   

  Best regards,

   

  -Naji

   


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  From: 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of James Fleming
  Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 8:12 PM
  To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
  Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

   

  Thank you Lauri for your posting.  I agree with you that the portrayal of doctors and lawyers as professionals who charge simple flat fees is incorrect.  Anyone who has ever worked at a law firm or medical facility knows better.  Anyone who has ever had serious legal or medical bills knows better.  

   

  Furthermore, lawyers and doctors are not paid based on results.  Whether a lawyer wins or loses, you pay.  Whether a doctor heals you or not, you pay.  They get paid handsomely whether they succeed or fail.  It would be difficult to design an arrangement more laden with potential conflict of interest issues.  If you doubt this, just look at the amount of mal-practice and E & O coverage that these professions carry.  

   

  Naji, to emphasize the inequity of a 6% Realtor commission, states that "If a doctor, attorney, plumber, or iron worker was to charge 6% of the average American's largest asset, I would not use them either."  Sounds compelling until you really think about it.  What doctors and lawyers (I'm leaving out plumbers and iron workers because, in my opinion, they were included to make a point but really have no place in the argument) charge is often several times more than 100% of the average Americans largest asset.  Think about it.  How many bankruptcies are filed every day by average Americans because of medical and/or legal bills?  Actually, it might eliminate a large percentage of bankruptcy filings if we could limit our medical/legal bills to 6% of our most valuable asset in the event of major health and legal issues.  I like it.

   

  Turning to conflicts of interest, the laws of agency in real estate transactions were written largely for the purpose of eliminating conflicts of interest.  These laws now apply in every state.  In practice today, Realtors either represent sellers or they represent buyers.  The exception to this occurs when the Realtor acts as a "dual agent".   In instances of dual agency, however, the Realtor must act neutrally.  S/he may not advocate for either party, but instead must simply conduct that transaction at the direction of both being careful not to be pulled into conflicts of interest along the way.  If one comes up, it must be disclosed to both parties.

   

  Naji, however, points to a few examples of conflicts of interest that are different from above.  I'd like to address a couple of them.  Naji mentions, for example, "If you're not charging a FLAT FEE for your services, you automatically have a built-in conflict of interest, period!! Just like the financial advisor that doesn't charge a flat fee, the car salesperson, the annuity agent, etc."  I would suggest that whether any of these people are paid on a commission or on a flat fee basis, their job is to sell you products and services.  Your job as the buyer is to make informed decisions.  The sales people do not represent you, the buyer, in any of these examples.  If Naji's point is that the sales person will try to sell the product or service that pays the most commission, then again, it is up to the buyer to sort through this and make an informed decision.

   

  The advantage in real estate is that you can have an advocate whether you are a buyer or a seller.  Seller's agents manage their listings with the goal of pricing them properly and marketing them extensively.  They never know what the mix of buyers is at any point in time.  When a buyer comes along, they do everything they can to promote the best interests of their client - the seller.  Equally, when a buyer's agent presents an offer on behalf of a client, it is the buyer's interests that the agent promotes above all.  Each of these agents has a fiduciary responsibility to their respective client.  This is true whether your Realtor is working for a flat fee or for a commission.

   

  As a practical consideration, many flat fee brokerages are what are called "limited service" brokerages.  In other words, they offer a menu of services from which their clients can choose.  Clients only pay for what they get.  For example, the brokerage may have one fee for listing your property in the MLS, another for placing a sign in your yard, another for flyers, another for a lockbox, another for advertising online, another for showing your property to buyers, another for conducting open houses, yet another for negotiating the sale with the buyer's agent, and so on.  Generally, firms with this approach find it hard to stay in business as evidenced by the recent (and third) bankruptcy filing of Help-U-Sell.  They tend to appeal to uninformed first- time sellers or financially strapped sellers who are desperate and don't know what they don't know.  

   

  These two groups of sellers typically believe that real estate agents are paid too much for the services they provide.  They typically argue their point by using hypothetical comparisons. They point to the associated costs of sales made with and without full service Realtors.  They either point to the increased money that one can make if a Realtor is excluded from the equation, or the decreased amount they can get for their house while still making the same net amount if they had sold it for more using a Realtor.  In the abstract, the same argument can be made for representing yourself in court, or doing your own dental fillings.  In the real world, however, ALL of life's issues come into play.  People, who make decisions based upon hypothetical or artificial constructs, greatly increase their chances of unintended consequences.  Unfortunately, these are often the same people who, as kids, had to discover for themselves the perils of touching a hot stove.

   

  Jim Fleming, Realtor and Lecturer

  Vancouver, WA

   

   


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  From: 5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Soak Up the Sun
  Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 2:21 PM
  To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
  Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

   

  I don't usually have a lot to say on the forums, however, I read all the posts.
  I have to say, if you think Doctors and Lawyers charge flat fees, you are sorely mistaken.
  I'm glad that you are happy with the flat fee real estate person that you are using, and hope that they continue to meet your needs.
  Lauri

   


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  From: Naji <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>
  To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
  Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 11:38:02 AM
  Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

  Dear PO 'd Realtor,

   

  I don't have a problem with ALL Realtors. I have a problem with Realtors that charge a commission due to the built-in conflict of interest. I will continue to use Realtors that charge a fair FLAT FEE for their services.

   

  -          Doctors - No commissions

  -          Attorneys - No commissions

  -          Plumbers - No commissions

  -          Iron Workers - No commissions

  -          Etc.

   

  If a doctor, attorney, plumber, or iron worker was to charge 6% of the average American's largest asset, I would not use them either. As for the MLS, the cost associated with using the MLS is minimal for any licensed real estate agent, plus you don't have to be part of NAR or Local Realtor Association to have access to MLS. Additionally, gathering all the "information" you are talking about takes minutes online.

   

  If you're not charging a FLAT FEE for your services, you automatically have a built-in conflict of interest, period!! Just like the financial advisor that doesn't charge a flat fee, the car salesperson, the annuity agent, etc.

   

  My agent charges a FLAT FEE (Full service agent) of 2,995 regardless of the sale price. Which means, that she gets 2,995 for a house that sells for 200K or 2Million whether she finds the buyer or another agent finds the buyer. Hence, NO CONFLICT OF INTEREST and every home gets the same amount of HARD WORK!!

   

  Best wishes,

   

  -Naji

   

   

   

   


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  From: 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Don Lynch
  Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:16 PM
  To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
  Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

   

  I don't know what your problem  is with realtors. Maybe you need to team up with Obama and go after doctors, lawyers, plumbers, iron workers, etc. etc. If you don't like realtors...DON'T USE THEM! And I don't know where you get your figures from because I work my butt off to makeover $50k....it isn't as easy as you think. MLS is a proprietary system set up for realtors. If you want access to sales  go to the tax records and assemble the info yourself...this work and effort is not FREE! Again, if you think realtors are ripping you off, don't use them.

   

  Signed, a hard working honest realtor...

    ----- Original Message ----- 

    From: Naji 

    To: 5-dayforum at howtosellyourhomein5days.com 

    Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:03 PM

    Subject: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

     

    Good article regarding the NAR and their monopolistic hold. This was written in 2005 and many laws and lawsuits against the NAR have been won since then that have changed a few things but much more needs to be done to have a fair system:

     

    http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/public/workshops/rewcom/213351.htm

     

     

     

     

     


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    _______________________________________________
    5-DayForum mailing list
    5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
    http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

  Donald C. Lynch
  500 Smokey Hollow Drive
  Waxhaw , NC 28173
  (704) 843-1392 - Office
  (704) 243-3971 - fax
  (407) 257-7845 - cell
  (800) 880-7845
  (704) 843-8325 - home
  dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
  http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  5-DayForum mailing list
  5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
  http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

Donald C. Lynch
500 Smokey Hollow Drive
Waxhaw, NC 28173
(704) 843-1392 - Office
(704) 243-3971 - fax
(407) 257-7845 - cell
(800) 880-7845
(704) 843-8325 - home
dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/
-------------- next part --------------
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From m_lavering at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  9 21:56:33 2009
From: m_lavering at yahoo.com (michael lavering)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 18:56:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker
In-Reply-To: <DD98F4ED8AF64FB7AA5A8D92D488BB67@Main>
Message-ID: <630387.44583.qm@web36906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Part of the problem in the world today is the conflict of interest in the traditional way real estate was bought and sold.? While most RE Brokers and Mortgage brokers are hard working and honest people, it is pretty obvious that there were/is a large number that were not!
?
How to resolve this conflict?? The 5-day sale cuts the RE broker out but not the mortgage broker, so what do we do to ensure that we never see this situation again?? Why not escrow the brokerage commisions to be paid out over 60 months???If the brokers who currently take somewhere fro 5-9% of the sale price right off the top (and then disappear) leaving the buyer and the lender as the only ones with a stake left, but if the commisions were tied up and only paid out over five years the?default rate would?be significantly less than it is today.??

--- On Mon, 3/9/09, Don Lynch <dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com> wrote:

From: Don Lynch <dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker
To: "How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days" <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Date: Monday, March 9, 2009, 5:33 PM







Naji, You?HAVE struck a nerve because you don't know what you are talking about. The BS is spewing from where you stand. Again, I don't know what your problem with realtor's?is (full service or otherwise) but I do know you have some kind of bone to pick, maybe some kind of envy. I bet you would have no trouble calling an agent to glean as much information about a property and even have him show it to you, and then turn around and circumvent him/her. Did I hit a nerve? Another question...when you are looking for a property to buy and you find out it is a FSBO do you automatically in your mind subtract 6% from the offer? I'll bet you do.
?
Signed, an honest hard working (with no conflict of interest, perceived or otherwise) realtor

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Naji 
To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days' 
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 9:21 PM
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker



Jim,
?
Obviously I hit a sensitive nerve with many Realtors on this issue? You and I know that in the Realtors world, it?s all about protecting the commission, period. So, let?s not fool ourselves with the standard NAR BS and scare tactics that?s been circulating for many decades? The big stock brokerage firms used to say the same thing about the E-Trade?s and Ameritrade?s of the world? where are Bear Stearns and Merrill Lynch today? Same thing was said about Wal-Mart, Amazon.com, Google, and many more industry leaders that decided to get away from the antiquated business as usual model. 
?
Regarding conflict of interest? It doesn?t matter how many laws are written, or how many disclosures are signed, a conflict of interest automatically exists? You don?t get paid unless the house sells? Therefore, whether a sale is a good move or a bad move for the buyer or seller, it doesn?t matter because you don?t get paid if the sale doesn?t close. I know this is difficult to understand, but I think Author Upton Sinclair explains it best ?It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on him not understanding it.?
?
Did you read Nine Pillars of the Citadel?
?
Every monopoly will eventually be broken? The stranglehold of the NAR will as well?. The sooner the average American consumer gets educated the sooner this will happen.
?
Best regards,
?
-Naji
?




From: 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of James Fleming
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 8:12 PM
To: ' How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days '
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker
?
Thank you Lauri for your posting.? I agree with you that the portrayal of doctors and lawyers as professionals who charge simple flat fees is incorrect.? Anyone who has ever worked at a law firm or medical facility knows better.? Anyone who has ever had serious legal or medical bills knows better.? 
?
Furthermore, lawyers and doctors are not paid based on results.? Whether a lawyer wins or loses, you pay.? Whether a doctor heals you or not, you pay.? They get paid handsomely whether they succeed or fail.? It would be difficult to design an arrangement more laden with potential conflict of interest issues.? If you doubt this, just look at the amount of mal-practice and E & O coverage that these professions carry.? 
?
Naji, to emphasize the inequity of a 6% Realtor commission, states that ?If a doctor, attorney, plumber, or iron worker was to charge 6% of the average American?s largest asset, I would not use them either.?? Sounds compelling until you really think about it.? What doctors and lawyers (I?m leaving out plumbers and iron workers because, in my opinion, they were included to make a point but really have no place in the argument) charge is often several times more than 100% of the average Americans largest asset.? Think about it.? How many bankruptcies are filed every day by average Americans because of medical and/or legal bills?? Actually, it might eliminate a large percentage of bankruptcy filings if we could limit our medical/legal bills to 6% of our most valuable asset in the event of major health and legal issues.? I like it.
?
Turning to conflicts of interest, the laws of agency in real estate transactions were written largely for the purpose of eliminating conflicts of interest.? These laws now apply in every state.? In practice today, Realtors either represent sellers or they represent buyers.? The exception to this occurs when the Realtor acts as a ?dual agent?.? ?In instances of dual agency, however, the Realtor must act neutrally.? S/he may not advocate for either party, but instead must simply conduct that transaction at the direction of both being careful not to be pulled into conflicts of interest along the way.? If one comes up, it must be disclosed to both parties.
?
Naji, however, points to a few examples of conflicts of interest that are different from above. ?I?d like to address a couple of them.? Naji mentions, for example, ?If you?re not charging a FLAT FEE for your services, you automatically have a built-in conflict of interest, period!! Just like the financial advisor that doesn?t charge a flat fee, the car salesperson, the annuity agent, etc??? I would suggest that whether any of these people are paid on a commission or on a flat fee basis, their job is to sell you products and services.? Your job as the buyer is to make informed decisions.? The sales people do not represent you, the buyer, in any of these examples.? If Naji?s point is that the sales person will try to sell the product or service that pays the most commission, then again, it is up to the buyer to sort through this and make an informed decision.
?
The advantage in real estate is that you can have an advocate whether you are a buyer or a seller.? Seller?s agents manage their listings with the goal of pricing them properly and marketing them extensively.? They never know what the mix of buyers is at any point in time.? When a buyer comes along, they do everything they can to promote the best interests of their client ? the seller.? Equally, when a buyer?s agent presents an offer on behalf of a client, it is the buyer?s interests that the agent promotes above all.? Each of these agents has a fiduciary responsibility to their respective client.? This is true whether your Realtor is working for a flat fee or for a commission.
?
As a practical consideration, many flat fee brokerages are what are called ?limited service? brokerages.? In other words, they offer a menu of services from which their clients can choose.? Clients only pay for what they get.? For example, the brokerage may have one fee for listing your property in the MLS, another for placing a sign in your yard, another for flyers, another for a lockbox, another for advertising online, another for showing your property to buyers, another for conducting open houses, yet another for negotiating the sale with the buyer?s agent, and so on.? Generally, firms with this approach find it hard to stay in business as evidenced by the recent (and third) bankruptcy filing of Help-U-Sell.? They tend to appeal to uninformed first- time sellers or financially strapped sellers who are desperate and don?t know what they don?t know.? 
?
These two groups of sellers typically believe that real estate agents are paid too much for the services they provide.? They typically argue their point by using hypothetical comparisons. They point to the associated costs of sales made with and without full service Realtors.? They either point to the increased money that one can make if a Realtor is excluded from the equation, or the decreased amount they can get for their house while still making the same net amount if they had sold it for more using a Realtor.? In the abstract, the same argument can be made for representing yourself in court, or doing your own dental fillings.? In the real world, however, ALL of life?s issues come into play.? People, who make decisions based upon hypothetical or artificial constructs, greatly increase their chances of unintended consequences.? Unfortunately, these are often the same people who, as kids, had to discover for themselves the perils of touching a
 hot stove.
?
Jim Fleming, Realtor and Lecturer
Vancouver, WA
?
?




From: 5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Soak Up the Sun
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 2:21 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker
?


I don't usually have a lot to say on the forums, however, I read all the posts.
I have to say, if you think Doctors and Lawyers charge flat fees, you are sorely mistaken.
I'm glad that you are happy with the flat fee real estate person that you are using, and hope that they continue to meet your needs.
Lauri

?




From: Naji <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 11:38:02 AM
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

Dear PO ?d Realtor,
?
I don?t have a problem with ALL Realtors? I have a problem with Realtors that charge a commission due to the built-in conflict of interest? I will continue to use Realtors that charge a fair FLAT FEE for their services.
?
-????????? Doctors ? No commissions
-????????? Attorneys ? No commissions
-????????? Plumbers ? No commissions
-????????? Iron Workers ? No commissions
-????????? Etc?
?
If a doctor, attorney, plumber, or iron worker was to charge 6% of the average American?s largest asset, I would not use them either. As for the MLS, the cost associated with using the MLS is minimal for any licensed real estate agent, plus you don?t have to be part of NAR or Local Realtor Association to have access to MLS? Additionally, gathering all the ?information? you are talking about takes minutes online.
?
If you?re not charging a FLAT FEE for your services, you automatically have a built-in conflict of interest, period!! Just like the financial advisor that doesn?t charge a flat fee, the car salesperson, the annuity agent, etc?
?
My agent charges a FLAT FEE (Full service agent) of 2,995 regardless of the sale price? Which means, that she gets 2,995 for a house that sells for 200K or 2Million whether she finds the buyer or another agent finds the buyer? Hence, NO CONFLICT OF INTEREST and every home gets the same amount of HARD WORK!!
?
Best wishes,
?
-Naji
?
?
?
?




From: 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Don Lynch
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:16 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker
?

I don't know what your problem? is with realtors. Maybe you need to team up with Obama and go after doctors, lawyers, plumbers, iron workers, etc. etc. If you don't like realtors...DON'T USE THEM!?And I don't know where you get your figures from because I work my butt off to makeover $50k....it isn't as easy as you think. MLS is a proprietary system set up for realtors. If you want access to sales? go to the tax records and assemble the info yourself...this work and effort is not FREE! Again, if you think realtors are ripping you off, don't use them.

?

Signed, a hard working honest realtor...


----- Original Message ----- 

From: Naji 

To: 5-dayforum at howtosellyourhomein5days.com 

Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:03 PM

Subject: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

?
Good article regarding the NAR and their monopolistic hold? This was written in 2005 and many laws and lawsuits against the NAR have been won since then that have changed a few things but much more needs to be done to have a fair system:
?
http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/public/workshops/rewcom/213351.htm
?
?
?


?
?



_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

Donald C. Lynch
500 Smokey Hollow Drive
Waxhaw , NC 28173
(704) 843-1392 - Office
(704) 243-3971 - fax
(407) 257-7845 - cell
(800) 880-7845
(704) 843-8325 - home
dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/



_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

Donald C. Lynch
500 Smokey Hollow Drive
Waxhaw, NC 28173
(704) 843-1392 - Office
(704) 243-3971 - fax
(407) 257-7845 - cell
(800) 880-7845
(704) 843-8325 - home
dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum



      
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From nkhouri at cfl.rr.com  Mon Mar  9 22:01:26 2009
From: nkhouri at cfl.rr.com (Naji)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 22:01:26 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker
In-Reply-To: <DD98F4ED8AF64FB7AA5A8D92D488BB67@Main>
References: <80D244F41801405CA51CFC6CA4752F36@NSKHome><17DB3D6863FC46918ABC03B6AFA6A494@Main><9631F7563E2E46FDBD0B31464B83A86D@NSKHome><663316.14472.qm@web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com><9735E643D89246ADA470C42B4D484250@jamesfleming><BED67CC8F69342C08B53ACD4CE228990@NSKHome>
	<DD98F4ED8AF64FB7AA5A8D92D488BB67@Main>
Message-ID: <2CB989CA9B12466689C589FD5E0C028B@NSKHome>

-          Correction. I know exactly what I'm talking about. Usually a
nerve is struck when the truth is told. 

-          No BS here, just facts. Read the Nine Pillars of The Citadel
first or a paper by Mark S. Nadel
http://aei-brookings.org/admin/authorpdfs/redirect-safely.php?fname=../pdffi
les/phpXf.pdf

-          No problem with ALL realtors. Problem with a broken monopolistic
model.

-          No bone to pick and No envy

-          I wouldn't call an agent to show me a property unless they charge
a flat fee for their service just as I would only use a financial advisor
that only charges a flat fee as well. BTW, I use an agent that simply
charges a FLAT FEE for their FULL SERVICE every time I buy an investment
property or any other property. Why you may ask? Because they only charge
$2,995 and rebate the difference when a commission is offered

-          No, you did not hit a nerve, but thank you for asking

-          Incorrect again. When I decide to purchase a property, it's
purely from an investment point of view... If the price is right and it
makes sense financially, then I move forward. It's doesn't matter if it's
FSBO, REO, MLS, SS, or any other type it may be.

 

As Upton Sinclair said "It is difficult to get a man to understand something
when his salary depends on him not understanding it."

 

-Naji

 

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of Don Lynch
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 9:33 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

Naji, You HAVE struck a nerve because you don't know what you are talking
about. The BS is spewing from where you stand. Again, I don't know what your
problem with realtor's is (full service or otherwise) but I do know you have
some kind of bone to pick, maybe some kind of envy. I bet you would have no
trouble calling an agent to glean as much information about a property and
even have him show it to you, and then turn around and circumvent him/her.
Did I hit a nerve? Another question...when you are looking for a property to
buy and you find out it is a FSBO do you automatically in your mind subtract
6% from the offer? I'll bet you do.

 

Signed, an honest hard working (with no conflict of interest, perceived or
otherwise) realtor

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Naji <mailto:nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>  

To: 'How To Sell Your Home
<mailto:5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>  in 5-Days' 

Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 9:21 PM

Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

Jim,

 

Obviously I hit a sensitive nerve with many Realtors on this issue. You and
I know that in the Realtors world, it's all about protecting the commission,
period. So, let's not fool ourselves with the standard NAR BS and scare
tactics that's been circulating for many decades. The big stock brokerage
firms used to say the same thing about the E-Trade's and Ameritrade's of the
world. where are Bear Stearns and Merrill Lynch today? Same thing was said
about Wal-Mart, Amazon.com, Google, and many more industry leaders that
decided to get away from the antiquated business as usual model. 

 

Regarding conflict of interest. It doesn't matter how many laws are written,
or how many disclosures are signed, a conflict of interest automatically
exists. You don't get paid unless the house sells. Therefore, whether a sale
is a good move or a bad move for the buyer or seller, it doesn't matter
because you don't get paid if the sale doesn't close. I know this is
difficult to understand, but I think Author Upton Sinclair explains it best
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary
depends on him not understanding it."

 

Did you read Nine Pillars of the Citadel?

 

Every monopoly will eventually be broken. The stranglehold of the NAR will
as well.. The sooner the average American consumer gets educated the sooner
this will happen.

 

Best regards,

 

-Naji

 


  _____  


From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of James Fleming
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 8:12 PM
To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

Thank you Lauri for your posting.  I agree with you that the portrayal of
doctors and lawyers as professionals who charge simple flat fees is
incorrect.  Anyone who has ever worked at a law firm or medical facility
knows better.  Anyone who has ever had serious legal or medical bills knows
better.  

 

Furthermore, lawyers and doctors are not paid based on results.  Whether a
lawyer wins or loses, you pay.  Whether a doctor heals you or not, you pay.
They get paid handsomely whether they succeed or fail.  It would be
difficult to design an arrangement more laden with potential conflict of
interest issues.  If you doubt this, just look at the amount of mal-practice
and E & O coverage that these professions carry.  

 

Naji, to emphasize the inequity of a 6% Realtor commission, states that "If
a doctor, attorney, plumber, or iron worker was to charge 6% of the average
American's largest asset, I would not use them either."  Sounds compelling
until you really think about it.  What doctors and lawyers (I'm leaving out
plumbers and iron workers because, in my opinion, they were included to make
a point but really have no place in the argument) charge is often several
times more than 100% of the average Americans largest asset.  Think about
it.  How many bankruptcies are filed every day by average Americans because
of medical and/or legal bills?  Actually, it might eliminate a large
percentage of bankruptcy filings if we could limit our medical/legal bills
to 6% of our most valuable asset in the event of major health and legal
issues.  I like it.

 

Turning to conflicts of interest, the laws of agency in real estate
transactions were written largely for the purpose of eliminating conflicts
of interest.  These laws now apply in every state.  In practice today,
Realtors either represent sellers or they represent buyers.  The exception
to this occurs when the Realtor acts as a "dual agent".   In instances of
dual agency, however, the Realtor must act neutrally.  S/he may not advocate
for either party, but instead must simply conduct that transaction at the
direction of both being careful not to be pulled into conflicts of interest
along the way.  If one comes up, it must be disclosed to both parties.

 

Naji, however, points to a few examples of conflicts of interest that are
different from above.  I'd like to address a couple of them.  Naji mentions,
for example, "If you're not charging a FLAT FEE for your services, you
automatically have a built-in conflict of interest, period!! Just like the
financial advisor that doesn't charge a flat fee, the car salesperson, the
annuity agent, etc."  I would suggest that whether any of these people are
paid on a commission or on a flat fee basis, their job is to sell you
products and services.  Your job as the buyer is to make informed decisions.
The sales people do not represent you, the buyer, in any of these examples.
If Naji's point is that the sales person will try to sell the product or
service that pays the most commission, then again, it is up to the buyer to
sort through this and make an informed decision.

 

The advantage in real estate is that you can have an advocate whether you
are a buyer or a seller.  Seller's agents manage their listings with the
goal of pricing them properly and marketing them extensively.  They never
know what the mix of buyers is at any point in time.  When a buyer comes
along, they do everything they can to promote the best interests of their
client - the seller.  Equally, when a buyer's agent presents an offer on
behalf of a client, it is the buyer's interests that the agent promotes
above all.  Each of these agents has a fiduciary responsibility to their
respective client.  This is true whether your Realtor is working for a flat
fee or for a commission.

 

As a practical consideration, many flat fee brokerages are what are called
"limited service" brokerages.  In other words, they offer a menu of services
from which their clients can choose.  Clients only pay for what they get.
For example, the brokerage may have one fee for listing your property in the
MLS, another for placing a sign in your yard, another for flyers, another
for a lockbox, another for advertising online, another for showing your
property to buyers, another for conducting open houses, yet another for
negotiating the sale with the buyer's agent, and so on.  Generally, firms
with this approach find it hard to stay in business as evidenced by the
recent (and third) bankruptcy filing of Help-U-Sell.  They tend to appeal to
uninformed first- time sellers or financially strapped sellers who are
desperate and don't know what they don't know.  

 

These two groups of sellers typically believe that real estate agents are
paid too much for the services they provide.  They typically argue their
point by using hypothetical comparisons. They point to the associated costs
of sales made with and without full service Realtors.  They either point to
the increased money that one can make if a Realtor is excluded from the
equation, or the decreased amount they can get for their house while still
making the same net amount if they had sold it for more using a Realtor.  In
the abstract, the same argument can be made for representing yourself in
court, or doing your own dental fillings.  In the real world, however, ALL
of life's issues come into play.  People, who make decisions based upon
hypothetical or artificial constructs, greatly increase their chances of
unintended consequences.  Unfortunately, these are often the same people
who, as kids, had to discover for themselves the perils of touching a hot
stove.

 

Jim Fleming, Realtor and Lecturer

Vancouver, WA

 

 


  _____  


From:
5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourho
mein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtose
llyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Soak Up the Sun
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 2:21 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

I don't usually have a lot to say on the forums, however, I read all the
posts.
I have to say, if you think Doctors and Lawyers charge flat fees, you are
sorely mistaken.
I'm glad that you are happy with the flat fee real estate person that you
are using, and hope that they continue to meet your needs.
Lauri

 


  _____  


From: Naji <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
<5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 11:38:02 AM
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

Dear PO 'd Realtor,

 

I don't have a problem with ALL Realtors. I have a problem with Realtors
that charge a commission due to the built-in conflict of interest. I will
continue to use Realtors that charge a fair FLAT FEE for their services.

 

-          Doctors - No commissions

-          Attorneys - No commissions

-          Plumbers - No commissions

-          Iron Workers - No commissions

-          Etc.

 

If a doctor, attorney, plumber, or iron worker was to charge 6% of the
average American's largest asset, I would not use them either. As for the
MLS, the cost associated with using the MLS is minimal for any licensed real
estate agent, plus you don't have to be part of NAR or Local Realtor
Association to have access to MLS. Additionally, gathering all the
"information" you are talking about takes minutes online.

 

If you're not charging a FLAT FEE for your services, you automatically have
a built-in conflict of interest, period!! Just like the financial advisor
that doesn't charge a flat fee, the car salesperson, the annuity agent, etc.

 

My agent charges a FLAT FEE (Full service agent) of 2,995 regardless of the
sale price. Which means, that she gets 2,995 for a house that sells for 200K
or 2Million whether she finds the buyer or another agent finds the buyer.
Hence, NO CONFLICT OF INTEREST and every home gets the same amount of HARD
WORK!!

 

Best wishes,

 

-Naji

 

 

 

 


  _____  


From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of Don Lynch
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:16 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

I don't know what your problem  is with realtors. Maybe you need to team up
with Obama and go after doctors, lawyers, plumbers, iron workers, etc. etc.
If you don't like realtors...DON'T USE THEM! And I don't know where you get
your figures from because I work my butt off to makeover $50k....it isn't as
easy as you think. MLS is a proprietary system set up for realtors. If you
want access to sales  go to the tax records and assemble the info
yourself...this work and effort is not FREE! Again, if you think realtors
are ripping you off, don't use them.

 

Signed, a hard working honest realtor...

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Naji <mailto:nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>  

To: 5-dayforum at howtosellyourhomein5days.com 

Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:03 PM

Subject: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

Good article regarding the NAR and their monopolistic hold. This was written
in 2005 and many laws and lawsuits against the NAR have been won since then
that have changed a few things but much more needs to be done to have a fair
system:

 

http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/public/workshops/rewcom/213351.htm

 

 

 

 

 


  _____  


_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

Donald C. Lynch
500 Smokey Hollow Drive
Waxhaw , NC 28173
(704) 843-1392 - Office
(704) 243-3971 - fax
(407) 257-7845 - cell
(800) 880-7845
(704) 843-8325 - home
dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/


  _____  


_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

Donald C. Lynch
500 Smokey Hollow Drive
Waxhaw, NC 28173
(704) 843-1392 - Office
(704) 243-3971 - fax
(407) 257-7845 - cell
(800) 880-7845
(704) 843-8325 - home
dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/

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From damian_colden at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  9 22:42:31 2009
From: damian_colden at yahoo.com (Damian Colden)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 19:42:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker
References: <80D244F41801405CA51CFC6CA4752F36@NSKHome><17DB3D6863FC46918ABC03B6AFA6A494@Main><9631F7563E2E46FDBD0B31464B83A86D@NSKHome><663316.14472.qm@web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com><9735E643D89246ADA470C42B4D484250@jamesfleming><BED67CC8F69342C08B53ACD4CE228990@NSKHome>
	<DD98F4ED8AF64FB7AA5A8D92D488BB67@Main>
	<2CB989CA9B12466689C589FD5E0C028B@NSKHome>
Message-ID: <75812.54184.qm@web53203.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Could you elaborate on this with an example?

Because they only charge $2,995 and rebate the difference when
a commission is offered

Thank you.

 Dac Colden




________________________________
From: Naji <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 10:01:26 PM
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 
-          Correction?
I know exactly what I?m talking about. Usually a nerve is struck when the
truth is told. 
-          No BS
here, just facts? Read the Nine Pillars of The Citadel first or a paper
by Mark S. Nadel http://aei-brookings.org/admin/authorpdfs/redirect-safely.php?fname=../pdffiles/phpXf.pdf
-          No
problem with ALL realtors? Problem with a broken monopolistic model.
-          No bone
to pick and No envy
-          I wouldn?t
call an agent to show me a property unless they charge a flat fee for their
service just as I would only use a financial advisor that only charges a flat
fee as well. BTW, I use an agent that simply charges a FLAT FEE for their FULL
SERVICE every time I buy an investment property or any other property?
Why you may ask? Because they only charge $2,995 and rebate the difference when
a commission is offered
-          No, you
did not hit a nerve, but thank you for asking
-          Incorrect
again? When I decide to purchase a property, it?s purely from an
investment point of view... If the price is right and it makes sense
financially, then I move forward? It?s doesn?t matter if it?s
FSBO, REO, MLS, SS, or any other type it may be.
 
As Upton Sinclair said ?It is
difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on him
not understanding it.?
 
-Naji
 
 

________________________________
 
From:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Don Lynch
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 9:33
PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you
shouldn't protect the broker
 
Naji, You HAVE struck a nerve because you don't know what you are
talking about. The BS is spewing from where you stand. Again, I don't know what
your problem with realtor's is (full service or otherwise) but I do know
you have some kind of bone to pick, maybe some kind of envy. I bet you would
have no trouble calling an agent to glean as much information about a property
and even have him show it to you, and then turn around and circumvent him/her.
Did I hit a nerve? Another question...when you are looking for a property to
buy and you find out it is a FSBO do you automatically in your mind subtract 6%
from the offer? I'll bet you do.
 
Signed, an honest hard working (with no conflict of interest, perceived
or otherwise) realtor
----- Original Message ----- 
From:Naji 
To:'How To Sell Your Home
in 5-Days' 
Sent:Monday, March 09,
2009 9:21 PM
Subject:Re: [5-DayForum]
Why you shouldn't protect the broker
 
Jim,
 
Obviously I hit a sensitive nerve with
many Realtors on this issue? You and I know that in the Realtors world,
it?s all about protecting the commission, period. So, let?s not
fool ourselves with the standard NAR BS and scare tactics that?s been
circulating for many decades? The big stock brokerage firms used to say
the same thing about the E-Trade?s and Ameritrade?s of the world?
where are Bear Stearns and Merrill Lynch today? Same thing was said about
Wal-Mart, Amazon.com, Google, and many more industry leaders that decided to
get away from the antiquated business as usual model. 
 
Regarding conflict of interest? It
doesn?t matter how many laws are written, or how many disclosures are
signed, a conflict of interest automatically exists? You don?t get
paid unless the house sells? Therefore, whether a sale is a good move or
a bad move for the buyer or seller, it doesn?t matter because you
don?t get paid if the sale doesn?t close. I know this is difficult
to understand, but I think Author Upton Sinclair explains it best ?It is
difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on him
not understanding it.?
 
Did you read Nine Pillars of the Citadel?
 
Every monopoly will eventually be
broken? The stranglehold of the NAR will as well?. The sooner the
average American consumer gets educated the sooner this will happen.
 
Best regards,
 
-Naji
 

________________________________
 
From:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of James Fleming
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 8:12
PM
To: ' How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days '
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you
shouldn't protect the broker
 
Thank you Lauri for your posting.  I
agree with you that the portrayal of doctors and lawyers as professionals who
charge simple flat fees is incorrect.  Anyone who has ever worked at a law
firm or medical facility knows better.  Anyone who has ever had serious
legal or medical bills knows better.  
 
Furthermore, lawyers and doctors are not
paid based on results.  Whether a lawyer wins or loses, you pay. 
Whether a doctor heals you or not, you pay.  They get paid handsomely
whether they succeed or fail.  It would be difficult to design an
arrangement more laden with potential conflict of interest issues.  If you
doubt this, just look at the amount of mal-practice and E & O coverage that
these professions carry.  
 
Naji, to emphasize the inequity of a 6%
Realtor commission, states that ?If a doctor, attorney, plumber, or iron
worker was to charge 6% of the average American?s largest asset, I would
not use them either.?  Sounds compelling until you really think
about it.  What doctors and lawyers (I?m leaving out plumbers and
iron workers because, in my opinion, they were included to make a point but
really have no place in the argument) charge is often several times more than
100% of the average Americans largest asset.  Think about it.  How
many bankruptcies are filed every day by average Americans because of medical
and/or legal bills?  Actually, it might eliminate a large percentage of
bankruptcy filings if we could limit our medical/legal bills to 6% of our most
valuable asset in the event of major health and legal issues.  I like it.
 
Turning to conflicts of interest, the laws
of agency in real estate transactions were written largely for the purpose of
eliminating conflicts of interest.  These laws now apply in every
state.  In practice today, Realtors either represent sellers or they
represent buyers.  The exception to this occurs when the Realtor acts as a
?dual agent?.   In instances of dual agency, however, the
Realtor must act neutrally.  S/he may not advocate for either party, but
instead must simply conduct that transaction at the direction of both being
careful not to be pulled into conflicts of interest along the way.  If one
comes up, it must be disclosed to both parties.
 
Naji, however, points to a few examples of
conflicts of interest that are different from above.  I?d like to
address a couple of them.  Naji mentions, for example, ?If
you?re not charging a FLAT FEE for your services, you automatically have
a built-in conflict of interest, period!! Just like the financial advisor that
doesn?t charge a flat fee, the car salesperson, the annuity agent,
etc??  I would suggest that whether any of these people are
paid on a commission or on a flat fee basis, their job is to sell you products
and services.  Your job as the buyer is to make informed decisions. 
The sales people do not represent you, the buyer, in any of these
examples.  If Naji?s point is that the sales person will try to sell
the product or service that pays the most commission, then again, it is up to
the buyer to sort through this and make an informed decision.
 
The advantage in real estate is that you
can have an advocate whether you are a buyer or a seller.  Seller?s
agents manage their listings with the goal of pricing them properly and
marketing them extensively.  They never know what the mix of buyers is at
any point in time.  When a buyer comes along, they do everything they can
to promote the best interests of their client ? the seller.  Equally,
when a buyer?s agent presents an offer on behalf of a client, it is the
buyer?s interests that the agent promotes above all.  Each of these
agents has a fiduciary responsibility to their respective client.  This is
true whether your Realtor is working for a flat fee or for a commission.
 
As a practical consideration, many flat
fee brokerages are what are called ?limited service?
brokerages.  In other words, they offer a menu of services from which
their clients can choose.  Clients only pay for what they get.  For
example, the brokerage may have one fee for listing your property in the MLS,
another for placing a sign in your yard, another for flyers, another for a
lockbox, another for advertising online, another for showing your property to
buyers, another for conducting open houses, yet another for negotiating the
sale with the buyer?s agent, and so on.  Generally, firms with this
approach find it hard to stay in business as evidenced by the recent (and
third) bankruptcy filing of Help-U-Sell.  They tend to appeal to uninformed
first- time sellers or financially strapped sellers who are desperate and
don?t know what they don?t know.  
 
These two groups of sellers typically
believe that real estate agents are paid too much for the services they
provide.  They typically argue their point by using hypothetical
comparisons. They point to the associated costs of sales made with and without
full service Realtors.  They either point to the increased money that one
can make if a Realtor is excluded from the equation, or the decreased amount
they can get for their house while still making the same net amount if they had
sold it for more using a Realtor.  In the abstract, the same argument can
be made for representing yourself in court, or doing your own dental
fillings.  In the real world, however, ALL of life?s issues come
into play.  People, who make decisions based upon hypothetical or
artificial constructs, greatly increase their chances of unintended
consequences.  Unfortunately, these are often the same people who, as
kids, had to discover for themselves the perils of touching a hot stove.
 
Jim Fleming, Realtor and Lecturer
Vancouver, WA
 
 

________________________________
 
From:5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Soak Up the Sun
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 2:21
PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you
shouldn't protect the broker
 
I don't usually have a lot to say on the forums, however, I read all
the posts.
I have to say, if you think Doctors and Lawyers charge flat fees, you are
sorely mistaken.
I'm glad that you are happy with the flat fee real estate person that you are
using, and hope that they continue to meet your needs.
Lauri
 

________________________________
 
From:Naji
<nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days 
<5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009
11:38:02 AM
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you
shouldn't protect the broker
Dear PO 
?d Realtor,
 
I don?t have a problem with ALL
Realtors? I have a problem with Realtors that charge a commission due to
the built-in conflict of interest? I will continue to use Realtors that
charge a fair FLAT FEE for their services.
 
-          Doctors ? No commissions
-          Attorneys ? No commissions
-          Plumbers ? No commissions
-          Iron Workers ? No commissions
-          Etc?
 
If a doctor, attorney, plumber, or iron
worker was to charge 6% of the average American?s largest asset, I would
not use them either. As for the MLS, the cost associated with using the MLS is
minimal for any licensed real estate agent, plus you don?t have to be
part of NAR or Local Realtor Association to have access to MLS?
Additionally, gathering all the ?information? you are talking about
takes minutes online.
 
If you?re not charging a FLAT FEE
for your services, you automatically have a built-in conflict of interest,
period!! Just like the financial advisor that doesn?t charge a flat fee,
the car salesperson, the annuity agent, etc?
 
My agent charges a FLAT FEE (Full service
agent) of 2,995 regardless of the sale price? Which means, that she gets
2,995 for a house that sells for 200K or 2Million whether she finds the buyer
or another agent finds the buyer? Hence, NO CONFLICT OF INTEREST and
every home gets the same amount of HARD WORK!!
 
Best wishes,
 
-Naji
 
 
 
 

________________________________
 
From:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Don Lynch
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:16
PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you
shouldn't protect the broker
 
I don't know what your problem  is with realtors. Maybe you need
to team up with Obama and go after doctors, lawyers, plumbers, iron workers,
etc. etc. If you don't like realtors...DON'T USE THEM! And I don't know
where you get your figures from because I work my butt off to makeover
$50k....it isn't as easy as you think. MLS is a proprietary system set up for
realtors. If you want access to sales  go to the tax records and assemble
the info yourself...this work and effort is not FREE! Again, if you think realtors
are ripping you off, don't use them.
 
Signed, a hard working honest realtor...
----- Original Message ----- 
From:Naji 
To:5-dayforum at howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
Sent:Monday, March 09,
2009 12:03 PM
Subject:[5-DayForum] Why
you shouldn't protect the broker
 
Good article regarding the NAR and their monopolistic
hold? This was written in 2005 and many laws and lawsuits against the NAR
have been won since then that have changed a few things but much more needs to
be done to have a fair system:
 
http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/public/workshops/rewcom/213351.htm
 
 
 
 
 

________________________________
 
_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
Donald C. Lynch
500 Smokey Hollow Drive
Waxhaw , NC  28173
(704) 843-1392 - Office
(704) 243-3971 - fax
(407) 257-7845 - cell
(800) 880-7845
(704) 843-8325 - home
dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/

________________________________
 
_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
Donald C. Lynch
500 Smokey Hollow Drive
Waxhaw , NC  28173
(704) 843-1392 - Office
(704) 243-3971 - fax
(407) 257-7845 - cell
(800) 880-7845
(704) 843-8325 - home
dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/


      
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From wayne at capecoralinvestmentproperties.com  Mon Mar  9 23:21:33 2009
From: wayne at capecoralinvestmentproperties.com (Wayne Giese)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 23:21:33 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] My First 5-day sale
In-Reply-To: <001101c9a0ff$4cf9be30$0201a8c0@RCCutcher>
References: <001101c9a0ff$4cf9be30$0201a8c0@RCCutcher>
Message-ID: <79f0ce3d0903092021r357e8e08v127f176adac9b534@mail.gmail.com>

I have added this web site to guide callers to me
auction please provide me with feedback.
auctioncapecoral.com

On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 5:37 PM, RC Cutcher <rcutcher at austin.rr.com> wrote:

>  I"m a real estate broker in the Naples/Marco Island FL area.  I am
> planning to do a 5 day sale this month.  Has anyone done a 5 day on a short
> sale?  I need to disclose that acny offer is subject to bank approval.  I
> would think that just documenting the 5-day sale process could help sway an
> asset manager, depending on what the price comes in at and how far off the
> price is from the comparable sales from the last few months. Since the bank
> pays the realtor commissions and expenses on a short sale, I don't think
> there's a  downside to letting the brokers bring in their prospects.  Has
> anyone gone out to the real estate brokers to encourage them to bring their
> buyers on a 5 -day under these circumstances?
>
> Any help or suggestions would be appreciated!
>
> Lili
>
> I've done several  Short Sales recently, all using my own developed Express
> Sale which is modeled somewhat after the 5-Day Sale.  If you have done
> several Short Sales, you know the importance of pricing small as compared to
> the vast majority of  Realtors who are unaware of the Broker Price Opinion
> that comes in just before the bank gives the famous 'consent and agreement,'
> to your deal.   The BPO should always aim at Fair Market Value with the
> accepted offer being approximatley 90% of FMV.   When you list the property
> in the MLS, always list a larger price first, then change to your sales
> price a day or two later, because the original list price is always
> considered more important to the bank than almost any other piece of
> information on the MLS.
>
> Since the Banks seem to always begin negotiations with a 'No' to whatever
> the contract amount being   submitted, it is advisable to enlist your
> own  Loss Mitigator who has experience on a daily basis dealing with
> banks.
>
> Hope that helps.
>
> RC Cutcher
> Realtor, ABR
> Austin Texas Homes, LLC
> www.austintexashomes.com
> 512-848-4449
>
> The Short Sale/Foreclosure Workshop
> Trec Provider No. 0623
> Course No. 03-00-100-7436
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>


-- 
Wayne Giese
(813) 482-5688
wayne at capecoralinvestmentproperties.com
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From nkhouri at cfl.rr.com  Mon Mar  9 23:26:28 2009
From: nkhouri at cfl.rr.com (Naji)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 23:26:28 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker
In-Reply-To: <75812.54184.qm@web53203.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <80D244F41801405CA51CFC6CA4752F36@NSKHome><17DB3D6863FC46918ABC03B6AFA6A494@Main><9631F7563E2E46FDBD0B31464B83A86D@NSKHome><663316.14472.qm@web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com><9735E643D89246ADA470C42B4D484250@jamesfleming><BED67CC8F69342C08B53ACD4CE228990@NSKHome><DD98F4ED8AF64FB7AA5A8D92D488BB67@Main><2CB989CA9B12466689C589FD5E0C028B@NSKHome>
	<75812.54184.qm@web53203.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <A47B4D09002A40B89CB65FB03D0E971F@NSKHome>

- Example when I buy:

 

Home listed on MLS for $500,000. Assuming listing agent offering 3%
commission to Buyer's Agent and assuming listing agent is collecting 3% for
his/her services. Here's what happens if I use my flat fee agent:

 

At closing, 6% commission is split between the two agents = 15K each.

 

My agent collects the 15K, deducts the 2,995 Fee, and rebates me the
difference of $12,005 as a credit at closing, a check within 10 days of
closing, or a combination of both.

 

- Example when I sell (when not using the 5-day method or sometimes when
using it in conjunction with Real Estate Agent/MLS):

 

I list the home with my agent for $500K and offer a 3% commission to buyer's
agent. My agent will spend money out of pocket of approximately $500 to
market the property:

 

1.	If she finds the buyer, she only collects her $2,995 Fee. I keep
$497,005
2.	If another agent brings a buyer, she collect $2,995, the buyer's
agent collects $15,000. I keep $482,005
3.	If the listing expires and the home doesn't sell (which has not
happened yet since I'm a realistic seller), she collects nothing & I pay
nothing. Additionally, I can cancel my contract at any time without any
questions asked and without any cancellation fees or marketing fees

 

 

My brother used my agent 2 months ago to purchase a home. She collected
2,995 out of the 3% commission, rebated him & his wife $6,950 as a credit at
closing, and sent him a check for $2,135 ten days after closing.

 

I hope this answers your question.

 

-Naji

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of Damian Colden
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 10:43 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

Could you elaborate on this with an example?

Because they only charge $2,995 and rebate the difference when a commission
is offered

Thank you.



 

Dac Colden

 

 

  _____  

From: Naji <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
<5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 10:01:26 PM
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

-          Correction. I know exactly what I'm talking about. Usually a
nerve is struck when the truth is told. 

-          No BS here, just facts. Read the Nine Pillars of The Citadel
first or a paper by Mark S. Nadel
http://aei-brookings.org/admin/authorpdfs/redirect-safely.php?fname=../pdffi
les/phpXf.pdf

-          No problem with ALL realtors. Problem with a broken monopolistic
model.

-          No bone to pick and No envy

-          I wouldn't call an agent to show me a property unless they charge
a flat fee for their service just as I would only use a financial advisor
that only charges a flat fee as well. BTW, I use an agent that simply
charges a FLAT FEE for their FULL SERVICE every time I buy an investment
property or any other property. Why you may ask? Because they only charge
$2,995 and rebate the difference when a commission is offered

-          No, you did not hit a nerve, but thank you for asking

-          Incorrect again. When I decide to purchase a property, it's
purely from an investment point of view... If the price is right and it
makes sense financially, then I move forward. It's doesn't matter if it's
FSBO, REO, MLS, SS, or any other type it may be.

 

As Upton Sinclair said "It is difficult to get a man to understand something
when his salary depends on him not understanding it."

 

-Naji

 

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of Don Lynch
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 9:33 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

Naji, You HAVE struck a nerve because you don't know what you are talking
about. The BS is spewing from where you stand. Again, I don't know what your
problem with realtor's is (full service or otherwise) but I do know you have
some kind of bone to pick, maybe some kind of envy. I bet you would have no
trouble calling an agent to glean as much information about a property and
even have him show it to you, and then turn around and circumvent him/her.
Did I hit a nerve? Another question...when you are looking for a property to
buy and you find out it is a FSBO do you automatically in your mind subtract
6% from the offer? I'll bet you do.

 

Signed, an honest hard working (with no conflict of interest, perceived or
otherwise) realtor

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Naji <mailto:nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>  

To: 'How To Sell <mailto:5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Your Home in 5-Days' 

Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 9:21 PM

Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

Jim,

 

Obviously I hit a sensitive nerve with many Realtors on this issue. You and
I know that in the Realtors world, it's all about protecting the commission,
period. So, let's not fool ourselves with the standard NAR BS and scare
tactics that's been circulating for many decades. The big stock brokerage
firms used to say the same thing about the E-Trade's and Ameritrade's of the
world. where are Bear Stearns and Merrill Lynch today? Same thing was said
about Wal-Mart, Amazon.com, Google, and many more industry leaders that
decided to get away from the antiquated business as usual model. 

 

Regarding conflict of interest. It doesn't matter how many laws are written,
or how many disclosures are signed, a conflict of interest automatically
exists. You don't get paid unless the house sells. Therefore, whether a sale
is a good move or a bad move for the buyer or seller, it doesn't matter
because you don't get paid if the sale doesn't close. I know this is
difficult to understand, but I think Author Upton Sinclair explains it best
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary
depends on him not understanding it."

 

Did you read Nine Pillars of the Citadel?

 

Every monopoly will eventually be broken. The stranglehold of the NAR will
as well.. The sooner the average American consumer gets educated the sooner
this will happen.

 

Best regards,

 

-Naji

 


  _____  


From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of James Fleming
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 8:12 PM
To: ' How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days '
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

Thank you Lauri for your posting.  I agree with you that the portrayal of
doctors and lawyers as professionals who charge simple flat fees is
incorrect.  Anyone who has ever worked at a law firm or medical facility
knows better.  Anyone who has ever had serious legal or medical bills knows
better.  

 

Furthermore, lawyers and doctors are not paid based on results.  Whether a
lawyer wins or loses, you pay.  Whether a doctor heals you or not, you pay.
They get paid handsomely whether they succeed or fail.  It would be
difficult to design an arrangement more laden with potential conflict of
interest issues.  If you doubt this, just look at the amount of mal-practice
and E & O coverage that these professions carry.  

 

Naji, to emphasize the inequity of a 6% Realtor commission, states that "If
a doctor, attorney, plumber, or iron worker was to charge 6% of the average
American's largest asset, I would not use them either."  Sounds compelling
until you really think about it.  What doctors and lawyers (I'm leaving out
plumbers and iron workers because, in my opinion, they were included to make
a point but really have no place in the argument) charge is often several
times more than 100% of the average Americans largest asset.  Think about
it.  How many bankruptcies are filed every day by average Americans because
of medical and/or legal bills?  Actually, it might eliminate a large
percentage of bankruptcy filings if we could limit our medical/legal bills
to 6% of our most valuable asset in the event of major health and legal
issues.  I like it.

 

Turning to conflicts of interest, the laws of agency in real estate
transactions were written largely for the purpose of eliminating conflicts
of interest.  These laws now apply in every state.  In practice today,
Realtors either represent sellers or they represent buyers.  The exception
to this occurs when the Realtor acts as a "dual agent".   In instances of
dual agency, however, the Realtor must act neutrally.  S/he may not advocate
for either party, but instead must simply conduct that transaction at the
direction of both being careful not to be pulled into conflicts of interest
along the way.  If one comes up, it must be disclosed to both parties.

 

Naji, however, points to a few examples of conflicts of interest that are
different from above.  I'd like to address a couple of them.  Naji mentions,
for example, "If you're not charging a FLAT FEE for your services, you
automatically have a built-in conflict of interest, period!! Just like the
financial advisor that doesn't charge a flat fee, the car salesperson, the
annuity agent, etc."  I would suggest that whether any of these people are
paid on a commission or on a flat fee basis, their job is to sell you
products and services.  Your job as the buyer is to make informed decisions.
The sales people do not represent you, the buyer, in any of these examples.
If Naji's point is that the sales person will try to sell the product or
service that pays the most commission, then again, it is up to the buyer to
sort through this and make an informed decision.

 

The advantage in real estate is that you can have an advocate whether you
are a buyer or a seller.  Seller's agents manage their listings with the
goal of pricing them properly and marketing them extensively.  They never
know what the mix of buyers is at any point in time.  When a buyer comes
along, they do everything they can to promote the best interests of their
client - the seller.  Equally, when a buyer's agent presents an offer on
behalf of a client, it is the buyer's interests that the agent promotes
above all.  Each of these agents has a fiduciary responsibility to their
respective client.  This is true whether your Realtor is working for a flat
fee or for a commission.

 

As a practical consideration, many flat fee brokerages are what are called
"limited service" brokerages.  In other words, they offer a menu of services
from which their clients can choose.  Clients only pay for what they get.
For example, the brokerage may have one fee for listing your property in the
MLS, another for placing a sign in your yard, another for flyers, another
for a lockbox, another for advertising online, another for showing your
property to buyers, another for conducting open houses, yet another for
negotiating the sale with the buyer's agent, and so on.  Generally, firms
with this approach find it hard to stay in business as evidenced by the
recent (and third) bankruptcy filing of Help-U-Sell.  They tend to appeal to
uninformed first- time sellers or financially strapped sellers who are
desperate and don't know what they don't know.  

 

These two groups of sellers typically believe that real estate agents are
paid too much for the services they provide.  They typically argue their
point by using hypothetical comparisons. They point to the associated costs
of sales made with and without full service Realtors.  They either point to
the increased money that one can make if a Realtor is excluded from the
equation, or the decreased amount they can get for their house while still
making the same net amount if they had sold it for more using a Realtor.  In
the abstract, the same argument can be made for representing yourself in
court, or doing your own dental fillings.  In the real world, however, ALL
of life's issues come into play.  People, who make decisions based upon
hypothetical or artificial constructs, greatly increase their chances of
unintended consequences.  Unfortunately, these are often the same people
who, as kids, had to discover for themselves the perils of touching a hot
stove.

 

Jim Fleming, Realtor and Lecturer

Vancouver, WA

 

 


  _____  


From:
5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourho
mein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtose
llyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Soak Up the Sun
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 2:21 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

I don't usually have a lot to say on the forums, however, I read all the
posts.
I have to say, if you think Doctors and Lawyers charge flat fees, you are
sorely mistaken.
I'm glad that you are happy with the flat fee real estate person that you
are using, and hope that they continue to meet your needs.
Lauri

 


  _____  


From: Naji <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
<5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 11:38:02 AM
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

Dear PO 'd Realtor,

 

I don't have a problem with ALL Realtors. I have a problem with Realtors
that charge a commission due to the built-in conflict of interest. I will
continue to use Realtors that charge a fair FLAT FEE for their services.

 

-          Doctors - No commissions

-          Attorneys - No commissions

-          Plumbers - No commissions

-          Iron Workers - No commissions

-          Etc.

 

If a doctor, attorney, plumber, or iron worker was to charge 6% of the
average American's largest asset, I would not use them either. As for the
MLS, the cost associated with using the MLS is minimal for any licensed real
estate agent, plus you don't have to be part of NAR or Local Realtor
Association to have access to MLS. Additionally, gathering all the
"information" you are talking about takes minutes online.

 

If you're not charging a FLAT FEE for your services, you automatically have
a built-in conflict of interest, period!! Just like the financial advisor
that doesn't charge a flat fee, the car salesperson, the annuity agent, etc.

 

My agent charges a FLAT FEE (Full service agent) of 2,995 regardless of the
sale price. Which means, that she gets 2,995 for a house that sells for 200K
or 2Million whether she finds the buyer or another agent finds the buyer.
Hence, NO CONFLICT OF INTEREST and every home gets the same amount of HARD
WORK!!

 

Best wishes,

 

-Naji

 

 

 

 


  _____  


From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of Don Lynch
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:16 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

I don't know what your problem  is with realtors. Maybe you need to team up
with Obama and go after doctors, lawyers, plumbers, iron workers, etc. etc.
If you don't like realtors...DON'T USE THEM! And I don't know where you get
your figures from because I work my butt off to makeover $50k....it isn't as
easy as you think. MLS is a proprietary system set up for realtors. If you
want access to sales  go to the tax records and assemble the info
yourself...this work and effort is not FREE! Again, if you think realtors
are ripping you off, don't use them.

 

Signed, a hard working honest realtor...

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Naji <mailto:nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>  

To: 5-dayforum at howtosellyourhomein5days.com 

Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:03 PM

Subject: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

Good article regarding the NAR and their monopolistic hold. This was written
in 2005 and many laws and lawsuits against the NAR have been won since then
that have changed a few things but much more needs to be done to have a fair
system:

 

http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/public/workshops/rewcom/213351.htm

 

 

 

 

 


  _____  


_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

Donald C. Lynch
500 Smokey Hollow Drive
Waxhaw , NC 28173
(704) 843-1392 - Office
(704) 243-3971 - fax
(407) 257-7845 - cell
(800) 880-7845
(704) 843-8325 - home
dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/


  _____  


_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

Donald C. Lynch
500 Smokey Hollow Drive
Waxhaw , NC 28173
(704) 843-1392 - Office
(704) 243-3971 - fax
(407) 257-7845 - cell
(800) 880-7845
(704) 843-8325 - home
dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/

 

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From dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com  Mon Mar  9 23:30:26 2009
From: dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com (Don Lynch)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 23:30:26 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker
In-Reply-To: <A47B4D09002A40B89CB65FB03D0E971F@NSKHome>
References: <80D244F41801405CA51CFC6CA4752F36@NSKHome><17DB3D6863FC46918ABC03B6AFA6A494@Main><9631F7563E2E46FDBD0B31464B83A86D@NSKHome><663316.14472.qm@web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com><9735E643D89246ADA470C42B4D484250@jamesfleming><BED67CC8F69342C08B53ACD4CE228990@NSKHome><DD98F4ED8AF64FB7AA5A8D92D488BB67@Main><2CB989CA9B12466689C589FD5E0C028B@NSKHome><75812.54184.qm@web53203.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<A47B4D09002A40B89CB65FB03D0E971F@NSKHome>
Message-ID: <B771FCFB12A34F3FACC2557E622A794E@Main>

Welcome to Naji world where only Naji can make a profit.....I thought slavery was abolished? Hmmmm....
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Naji 
  To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days' 
  Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 11:26 PM
  Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker


  - Example when I buy:

   

  Home listed on MLS for $500,000. Assuming listing agent offering 3% commission to Buyer's Agent and assuming listing agent is collecting 3% for his/her services. Here's what happens if I use my flat fee agent:

   

  At closing, 6% commission is split between the two agents = 15K each.

   

  My agent collects the 15K, deducts the 2,995 Fee, and rebates me the difference of $12,005 as a credit at closing, a check within 10 days of closing, or a combination of both.

   

  - Example when I sell (when not using the 5-day method or sometimes when using it in conjunction with Real Estate Agent/MLS):

   

  I list the home with my agent for $500K and offer a 3% commission to buyer's agent. My agent will spend money out of pocket of approximately $500 to market the property:

   

    1.. If she finds the buyer, she only collects her $2,995 Fee. I keep $497,005 
    2.. If another agent brings a buyer, she collect $2,995, the buyer's agent collects $15,000. I keep $482,005 
    3.. If the listing expires and the home doesn't sell (which has not happened yet since I'm a realistic seller), she collects nothing & I pay nothing. Additionally, I can cancel my contract at any time without any questions asked and without any cancellation fees or marketing fees 
   

   

  My brother used my agent 2 months ago to purchase a home. She collected 2,995 out of the 3% commission, rebated him & his wife $6,950 as a credit at closing, and sent him a check for $2,135 ten days after closing.

   

  I hope this answers your question.

   

  -Naji

   


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  From: 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Damian Colden
  Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 10:43 PM
  To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
  Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

   

  Could you elaborate on this with an example?

  Because they only charge $2,995 and rebate the difference when a commission is offered

  Thank you.



   

  Dac Colden

   

   


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  From: Naji <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>
  To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
  Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 10:01:26 PM
  Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

  -          Correction. I know exactly what I'm talking about. Usually a nerve is struck when the truth is told. 

  -          No BS here, just facts. Read the Nine Pillars of The Citadel first or a paper by Mark S. Nadel http://aei-brookings.org/admin/authorpdfs/redirect-safely.php?fname=../pdffiles/phpXf.pdf

  -          No problem with ALL realtors. Problem with a broken monopolistic model.

  -          No bone to pick and No envy

  -          I wouldn't call an agent to show me a property unless they charge a flat fee for their service just as I would only use a financial advisor that only charges a flat fee as well. BTW, I use an agent that simply charges a FLAT FEE for their FULL SERVICE every time I buy an investment property or any other property. Why you may ask? Because they only charge $2,995 and rebate the difference when a commission is offered

  -          No, you did not hit a nerve, but thank you for asking

  -          Incorrect again. When I decide to purchase a property, it's purely from an investment point of view... If the price is right and it makes sense financially, then I move forward. It's doesn't matter if it's FSBO, REO, MLS, SS, or any other type it may be.

   

  As Upton Sinclair said "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on him not understanding it."

   

  -Naji

   

   


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  From: 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Don Lynch
  Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 9:33 PM
  To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
  Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

   

  Naji, You HAVE struck a nerve because you don't know what you are talking about. The BS is spewing from where you stand. Again, I don't know what your problem with realtor's is (full service or otherwise) but I do know you have some kind of bone to pick, maybe some kind of envy. I bet you would have no trouble calling an agent to glean as much information about a property and even have him show it to you, and then turn around and circumvent him/her. Did I hit a nerve? Another question...when you are looking for a property to buy and you find out it is a FSBO do you automatically in your mind subtract 6% from the offer? I'll bet you do.

   

  Signed, an honest hard working (with no conflict of interest, perceived or otherwise) realtor

    ----- Original Message ----- 

    From: Naji 

    To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days' 

    Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 9:21 PM

    Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

     

    Jim,

     

    Obviously I hit a sensitive nerve with many Realtors on this issue. You and I know that in the Realtors world, it's all about protecting the commission, period. So, let's not fool ourselves with the standard NAR BS and scare tactics that's been circulating for many decades. The big stock brokerage firms used to say the same thing about the E-Trade's and Ameritrade's of the world. where are Bear Stearns and Merrill Lynch today? Same thing was said about Wal-Mart, Amazon.com, Google, and many more industry leaders that decided to get away from the antiquated business as usual model. 

     

    Regarding conflict of interest. It doesn't matter how many laws are written, or how many disclosures are signed, a conflict of interest automatically exists. You don't get paid unless the house sells. Therefore, whether a sale is a good move or a bad move for the buyer or seller, it doesn't matter because you don't get paid if the sale doesn't close. I know this is difficult to understand, but I think Author Upton Sinclair explains it best "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on him not understanding it."

     

    Did you read Nine Pillars of the Citadel?

     

    Every monopoly will eventually be broken. The stranglehold of the NAR will as well.. The sooner the average American consumer gets educated the sooner this will happen.

     

    Best regards,

     

    -Naji

     


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of James Fleming
    Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 8:12 PM
    To: ' How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days '
    Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

     

    Thank you Lauri for your posting.  I agree with you that the portrayal of doctors and lawyers as professionals who charge simple flat fees is incorrect.  Anyone who has ever worked at a law firm or medical facility knows better.  Anyone who has ever had serious legal or medical bills knows better.  

     

    Furthermore, lawyers and doctors are not paid based on results.  Whether a lawyer wins or loses, you pay.  Whether a doctor heals you or not, you pay.  They get paid handsomely whether they succeed or fail.  It would be difficult to design an arrangement more laden with potential conflict of interest issues.  If you doubt this, just look at the amount of mal-practice and E & O coverage that these professions carry.  

     

    Naji, to emphasize the inequity of a 6% Realtor commission, states that "If a doctor, attorney, plumber, or iron worker was to charge 6% of the average American's largest asset, I would not use them either."  Sounds compelling until you really think about it.  What doctors and lawyers (I'm leaving out plumbers and iron workers because, in my opinion, they were included to make a point but really have no place in the argument) charge is often several times more than 100% of the average Americans largest asset.  Think about it.  How many bankruptcies are filed every day by average Americans because of medical and/or legal bills?  Actually, it might eliminate a large percentage of bankruptcy filings if we could limit our medical/legal bills to 6% of our most valuable asset in the event of major health and legal issues.  I like it.

     

    Turning to conflicts of interest, the laws of agency in real estate transactions were written largely for the purpose of eliminating conflicts of interest.  These laws now apply in every state.  In practice today, Realtors either represent sellers or they represent buyers.  The exception to this occurs when the Realtor acts as a "dual agent".   In instances of dual agency, however, the Realtor must act neutrally.  S/he may not advocate for either party, but instead must simply conduct that transaction at the direction of both being careful not to be pulled into conflicts of interest along the way.  If one comes up, it must be disclosed to both parties.

     

    Naji, however, points to a few examples of conflicts of interest that are different from above.  I'd like to address a couple of them.  Naji mentions, for example, "If you're not charging a FLAT FEE for your services, you automatically have a built-in conflict of interest, period!! Just like the financial advisor that doesn't charge a flat fee, the car salesperson, the annuity agent, etc."  I would suggest that whether any of these people are paid on a commission or on a flat fee basis, their job is to sell you products and services.  Your job as the buyer is to make informed decisions.  The sales people do not represent you, the buyer, in any of these examples.  If Naji's point is that the sales person will try to sell the product or service that pays the most commission, then again, it is up to the buyer to sort through this and make an informed decision.

     

    The advantage in real estate is that you can have an advocate whether you are a buyer or a seller.  Seller's agents manage their listings with the goal of pricing them properly and marketing them extensively.  They never know what the mix of buyers is at any point in time.  When a buyer comes along, they do everything they can to promote the best interests of their client - the seller.  Equally, when a buyer's agent presents an offer on behalf of a client, it is the buyer's interests that the agent promotes above all.  Each of these agents has a fiduciary responsibility to their respective client.  This is true whether your Realtor is working for a flat fee or for a commission.

     

    As a practical consideration, many flat fee brokerages are what are called "limited service" brokerages.  In other words, they offer a menu of services from which their clients can choose.  Clients only pay for what they get.  For example, the brokerage may have one fee for listing your property in the MLS, another for placing a sign in your yard, another for flyers, another for a lockbox, another for advertising online, another for showing your property to buyers, another for conducting open houses, yet another for negotiating the sale with the buyer's agent, and so on.  Generally, firms with this approach find it hard to stay in business as evidenced by the recent (and third) bankruptcy filing of Help-U-Sell.  They tend to appeal to uninformed first- time sellers or financially strapped sellers who are desperate and don't know what they don't know.  

     

    These two groups of sellers typically believe that real estate agents are paid too much for the services they provide.  They typically argue their point by using hypothetical comparisons. They point to the associated costs of sales made with and without full service Realtors.  They either point to the increased money that one can make if a Realtor is excluded from the equation, or the decreased amount they can get for their house while still making the same net amount if they had sold it for more using a Realtor.  In the abstract, the same argument can be made for representing yourself in court, or doing your own dental fillings.  In the real world, however, ALL of life's issues come into play.  People, who make decisions based upon hypothetical or artificial constructs, greatly increase their chances of unintended consequences.  Unfortunately, these are often the same people who, as kids, had to discover for themselves the perils of touching a hot stove.

     

    Jim Fleming, Realtor and Lecturer

    Vancouver, WA

     

     


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: 5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Soak Up the Sun
    Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 2:21 PM
    To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
    Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

     

    I don't usually have a lot to say on the forums, however, I read all the posts.
    I have to say, if you think Doctors and Lawyers charge flat fees, you are sorely mistaken.
    I'm glad that you are happy with the flat fee real estate person that you are using, and hope that they continue to meet your needs.
    Lauri

     


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: Naji <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>
    To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
    Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 11:38:02 AM
    Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

    Dear PO 'd Realtor,

     

    I don't have a problem with ALL Realtors. I have a problem with Realtors that charge a commission due to the built-in conflict of interest. I will continue to use Realtors that charge a fair FLAT FEE for their services.

     

    -          Doctors - No commissions

    -          Attorneys - No commissions

    -          Plumbers - No commissions

    -          Iron Workers - No commissions

    -          Etc.

     

    If a doctor, attorney, plumber, or iron worker was to charge 6% of the average American's largest asset, I would not use them either. As for the MLS, the cost associated with using the MLS is minimal for any licensed real estate agent, plus you don't have to be part of NAR or Local Realtor Association to have access to MLS. Additionally, gathering all the "information" you are talking about takes minutes online.

     

    If you're not charging a FLAT FEE for your services, you automatically have a built-in conflict of interest, period!! Just like the financial advisor that doesn't charge a flat fee, the car salesperson, the annuity agent, etc.

     

    My agent charges a FLAT FEE (Full service agent) of 2,995 regardless of the sale price. Which means, that she gets 2,995 for a house that sells for 200K or 2Million whether she finds the buyer or another agent finds the buyer. Hence, NO CONFLICT OF INTEREST and every home gets the same amount of HARD WORK!!

     

    Best wishes,

     

    -Naji

     

     

     

     


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Don Lynch
    Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:16 PM
    To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
    Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

     

    I don't know what your problem  is with realtors. Maybe you need to team up with Obama and go after doctors, lawyers, plumbers, iron workers, etc. etc. If you don't like realtors...DON'T USE THEM! And I don't know where you get your figures from because I work my butt off to makeover $50k....it isn't as easy as you think. MLS is a proprietary system set up for realtors. If you want access to sales  go to the tax records and assemble the info yourself...this work and effort is not FREE! Again, if you think realtors are ripping you off, don't use them.

     

    Signed, a hard working honest realtor...

      ----- Original Message ----- 

      From: Naji 

      To: 5-dayforum at howtosellyourhomein5days.com 

      Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:03 PM

      Subject: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

       

      Good article regarding the NAR and their monopolistic hold. This was written in 2005 and many laws and lawsuits against the NAR have been won since then that have changed a few things but much more needs to be done to have a fair system:

       

      http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/public/workshops/rewcom/213351.htm

       

       

       

       

       


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

      _______________________________________________
      5-DayForum mailing list
      5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
      http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

    Donald C. Lynch
    500 Smokey Hollow Drive
    Waxhaw , NC 28173
    (704) 843-1392 - Office
    (704) 243-3971 - fax
    (407) 257-7845 - cell
    (800) 880-7845
    (704) 843-8325 - home
    dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
    http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    _______________________________________________
    5-DayForum mailing list
    5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
    http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

  Donald C. Lynch
  500 Smokey Hollow Drive
  Waxhaw , NC 28173
  (704) 843-1392 - Office
  (704) 243-3971 - fax
  (407) 257-7845 - cell
  (800) 880-7845
  (704) 843-8325 - home
  dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
  http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/

   



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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  5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
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Donald C. Lynch
500 Smokey Hollow Drive
Waxhaw, NC 28173
(704) 843-1392 - Office
(704) 243-3971 - fax
(407) 257-7845 - cell
(800) 880-7845
(704) 843-8325 - home
dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/
-------------- next part --------------
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From nkhouri at cfl.rr.com  Mon Mar  9 23:43:21 2009
From: nkhouri at cfl.rr.com (Naji)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 23:43:21 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker
In-Reply-To: <B771FCFB12A34F3FACC2557E622A794E@Main>
References: <80D244F41801405CA51CFC6CA4752F36@NSKHome><17DB3D6863FC46918ABC03B6AFA6A494@Main><9631F7563E2E46FDBD0B31464B83A86D@NSKHome><663316.14472.qm@web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com><9735E643D89246ADA470C42B4D484250@jamesfleming><BED67CC8F69342C08B53ACD4CE228990@NSKHome><DD98F4ED8AF64FB7AA5A8D92D488BB67@Main><2CB989CA9B12466689C589FD5E0C028B@NSKHome><75812.54184.qm@web53203.mail.re2.yahoo.com><A47B4D09002A40B89CB65FB03D0E971F@NSKHome>
	<B771FCFB12A34F3FACC2557E622A794E@Main>
Message-ID: <DE2CB5B67B0946E0AB1FEF207DB15446@NSKHome>

Hmmm. Let me see, my agent sells every property that I send her way, she
makes $2,995 on each property. The average Realtor spends less than 12% of
their time actually selling and 88% of the time prospecting. So, 12% of 40
hours per week X 5 weeks = 24 Hours. If she only sells 1 home a month that
would be 2995/24 = $124.79/Hr. How is 125 bucks an hour considered slavery?

 

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of Don Lynch
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 11:30 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

Welcome to Naji world where only Naji can make a profit.....I thought
slavery was abolished? Hmmmm....

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Naji <mailto:nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>  

To: 'How To Sell Your Home
<mailto:5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>  in 5-Days' 

Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 11:26 PM

Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

- Example when I buy:

 

Home listed on MLS for $500,000. Assuming listing agent offering 3%
commission to Buyer's Agent and assuming listing agent is collecting 3% for
his/her services. Here's what happens if I use my flat fee agent:

 

At closing, 6% commission is split between the two agents = 15K each.

 

My agent collects the 15K, deducts the 2,995 Fee, and rebates me the
difference of $12,005 as a credit at closing, a check within 10 days of
closing, or a combination of both.

 

- Example when I sell (when not using the 5-day method or sometimes when
using it in conjunction with Real Estate Agent/MLS):

 

I list the home with my agent for $500K and offer a 3% commission to buyer's
agent. My agent will spend money out of pocket of approximately $500 to
market the property:

 

1.	If she finds the buyer, she only collects her $2,995 Fee. I keep
$497,005 
2.	If another agent brings a buyer, she collect $2,995, the buyer's
agent collects $15,000. I keep $482,005 
3.	If the listing expires and the home doesn't sell (which has not
happened yet since I'm a realistic seller), she collects nothing & I pay
nothing. Additionally, I can cancel my contract at any time without any
questions asked and without any cancellation fees or marketing fees 

 

 

My brother used my agent 2 months ago to purchase a home. She collected
2,995 out of the 3% commission, rebated him & his wife $6,950 as a credit at
closing, and sent him a check for $2,135 ten days after closing.

 

I hope this answers your question.

 

-Naji

 


  _____  


From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of Damian Colden
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 10:43 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

Could you elaborate on this with an example?

Because they only charge $2,995 and rebate the difference when a commission
is offered

Thank you.

 

Dac Colden

 

 


  _____  


From: Naji <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
<5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 10:01:26 PM
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

-          Correction. I know exactly what I'm talking about. Usually a
nerve is struck when the truth is told. 

-          No BS here, just facts. Read the Nine Pillars of The Citadel
first or a paper by Mark S. Nadel
http://aei-brookings.org/admin/authorpdfs/redirect-safely.php?fname=../pdffi
les/phpXf.pdf

-          No problem with ALL realtors. Problem with a broken monopolistic
model.

-          No bone to pick and No envy

-          I wouldn't call an agent to show me a property unless they charge
a flat fee for their service just as I would only use a financial advisor
that only charges a flat fee as well. BTW, I use an agent that simply
charges a FLAT FEE for their FULL SERVICE every time I buy an investment
property or any other property. Why you may ask? Because they only charge
$2,995 and rebate the difference when a commission is offered

-          No, you did not hit a nerve, but thank you for asking

-          Incorrect again. When I decide to purchase a property, it's
purely from an investment point of view... If the price is right and it
makes sense financially, then I move forward. It's doesn't matter if it's
FSBO, REO, MLS, SS, or any other type it may be.

 

As Upton Sinclair said "It is difficult to get a man to understand something
when his salary depends on him not understanding it."

 

-Naji

 

 


  _____  


From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of Don Lynch
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 9:33 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

Naji, You HAVE struck a nerve because you don't know what you are talking
about. The BS is spewing from where you stand. Again, I don't know what your
problem with realtor's is (full service or otherwise) but I do know you have
some kind of bone to pick, maybe some kind of envy. I bet you would have no
trouble calling an agent to glean as much information about a property and
even have him show it to you, and then turn around and circumvent him/her.
Did I hit a nerve? Another question...when you are looking for a property to
buy and you find out it is a FSBO do you automatically in your mind subtract
6% from the offer? I'll bet you do.

 

Signed, an honest hard working (with no conflict of interest, perceived or
otherwise) realtor

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Naji <mailto:nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>  

To: 'How To Sell <mailto:5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Your Home in 5-Days' 

Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 9:21 PM

Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

Jim,

 

Obviously I hit a sensitive nerve with many Realtors on this issue. You and
I know that in the Realtors world, it's all about protecting the commission,
period. So, let's not fool ourselves with the standard NAR BS and scare
tactics that's been circulating for many decades. The big stock brokerage
firms used to say the same thing about the E-Trade's and Ameritrade's of the
world. where are Bear Stearns and Merrill Lynch today? Same thing was said
about Wal-Mart, Amazon.com, Google, and many more industry leaders that
decided to get away from the antiquated business as usual model. 

 

Regarding conflict of interest. It doesn't matter how many laws are written,
or how many disclosures are signed, a conflict of interest automatically
exists. You don't get paid unless the house sells. Therefore, whether a sale
is a good move or a bad move for the buyer or seller, it doesn't matter
because you don't get paid if the sale doesn't close. I know this is
difficult to understand, but I think Author Upton Sinclair explains it best
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary
depends on him not understanding it."

 

Did you read Nine Pillars of the Citadel?

 

Every monopoly will eventually be broken. The stranglehold of the NAR will
as well.. The sooner the average American consumer gets educated the sooner
this will happen.

 

Best regards,

 

-Naji

 


  _____  


From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of James Fleming
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 8:12 PM
To: ' How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days '
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

Thank you Lauri for your posting.  I agree with you that the portrayal of
doctors and lawyers as professionals who charge simple flat fees is
incorrect.  Anyone who has ever worked at a law firm or medical facility
knows better.  Anyone who has ever had serious legal or medical bills knows
better.  

 

Furthermore, lawyers and doctors are not paid based on results.  Whether a
lawyer wins or loses, you pay.  Whether a doctor heals you or not, you pay.
They get paid handsomely whether they succeed or fail.  It would be
difficult to design an arrangement more laden with potential conflict of
interest issues.  If you doubt this, just look at the amount of mal-practice
and E & O coverage that these professions carry.  

 

Naji, to emphasize the inequity of a 6% Realtor commission, states that "If
a doctor, attorney, plumber, or iron worker was to charge 6% of the average
American's largest asset, I would not use them either."  Sounds compelling
until you really think about it.  What doctors and lawyers (I'm leaving out
plumbers and iron workers because, in my opinion, they were included to make
a point but really have no place in the argument) charge is often several
times more than 100% of the average Americans largest asset.  Think about
it.  How many bankruptcies are filed every day by average Americans because
of medical and/or legal bills?  Actually, it might eliminate a large
percentage of bankruptcy filings if we could limit our medical/legal bills
to 6% of our most valuable asset in the event of major health and legal
issues.  I like it.

 

Turning to conflicts of interest, the laws of agency in real estate
transactions were written largely for the purpose of eliminating conflicts
of interest.  These laws now apply in every state.  In practice today,
Realtors either represent sellers or they represent buyers.  The exception
to this occurs when the Realtor acts as a "dual agent".   In instances of
dual agency, however, the Realtor must act neutrally.  S/he may not advocate
for either party, but instead must simply conduct that transaction at the
direction of both being careful not to be pulled into conflicts of interest
along the way.  If one comes up, it must be disclosed to both parties.

 

Naji, however, points to a few examples of conflicts of interest that are
different from above.  I'd like to address a couple of them.  Naji mentions,
for example, "If you're not charging a FLAT FEE for your services, you
automatically have a built-in conflict of interest, period!! Just like the
financial advisor that doesn't charge a flat fee, the car salesperson, the
annuity agent, etc."  I would suggest that whether any of these people are
paid on a commission or on a flat fee basis, their job is to sell you
products and services.  Your job as the buyer is to make informed decisions.
The sales people do not represent you, the buyer, in any of these examples.
If Naji's point is that the sales person will try to sell the product or
service that pays the most commission, then again, it is up to the buyer to
sort through this and make an informed decision.

 

The advantage in real estate is that you can have an advocate whether you
are a buyer or a seller.  Seller's agents manage their listings with the
goal of pricing them properly and marketing them extensively.  They never
know what the mix of buyers is at any point in time.  When a buyer comes
along, they do everything they can to promote the best interests of their
client - the seller.  Equally, when a buyer's agent presents an offer on
behalf of a client, it is the buyer's interests that the agent promotes
above all.  Each of these agents has a fiduciary responsibility to their
respective client.  This is true whether your Realtor is working for a flat
fee or for a commission.

 

As a practical consideration, many flat fee brokerages are what are called
"limited service" brokerages.  In other words, they offer a menu of services
from which their clients can choose.  Clients only pay for what they get.
For example, the brokerage may have one fee for listing your property in the
MLS, another for placing a sign in your yard, another for flyers, another
for a lockbox, another for advertising online, another for showing your
property to buyers, another for conducting open houses, yet another for
negotiating the sale with the buyer's agent, and so on.  Generally, firms
with this approach find it hard to stay in business as evidenced by the
recent (and third) bankruptcy filing of Help-U-Sell.  They tend to appeal to
uninformed first- time sellers or financially strapped sellers who are
desperate and don't know what they don't know.  

 

These two groups of sellers typically believe that real estate agents are
paid too much for the services they provide.  They typically argue their
point by using hypothetical comparisons. They point to the associated costs
of sales made with and without full service Realtors.  They either point to
the increased money that one can make if a Realtor is excluded from the
equation, or the decreased amount they can get for their house while still
making the same net amount if they had sold it for more using a Realtor.  In
the abstract, the same argument can be made for representing yourself in
court, or doing your own dental fillings.  In the real world, however, ALL
of life's issues come into play.  People, who make decisions based upon
hypothetical or artificial constructs, greatly increase their chances of
unintended consequences.  Unfortunately, these are often the same people
who, as kids, had to discover for themselves the perils of touching a hot
stove.

 

Jim Fleming, Realtor and Lecturer

Vancouver, WA

 

 


  _____  


From:
5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourho
mein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtose
llyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Soak Up the Sun
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 2:21 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

I don't usually have a lot to say on the forums, however, I read all the
posts.
I have to say, if you think Doctors and Lawyers charge flat fees, you are
sorely mistaken.
I'm glad that you are happy with the flat fee real estate person that you
are using, and hope that they continue to meet your needs.
Lauri

 


  _____  


From: Naji <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
<5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 11:38:02 AM
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

Dear PO 'd Realtor,

 

I don't have a problem with ALL Realtors. I have a problem with Realtors
that charge a commission due to the built-in conflict of interest. I will
continue to use Realtors that charge a fair FLAT FEE for their services.

 

-          Doctors - No commissions

-          Attorneys - No commissions

-          Plumbers - No commissions

-          Iron Workers - No commissions

-          Etc.

 

If a doctor, attorney, plumber, or iron worker was to charge 6% of the
average American's largest asset, I would not use them either. As for the
MLS, the cost associated with using the MLS is minimal for any licensed real
estate agent, plus you don't have to be part of NAR or Local Realtor
Association to have access to MLS. Additionally, gathering all the
"information" you are talking about takes minutes online.

 

If you're not charging a FLAT FEE for your services, you automatically have
a built-in conflict of interest, period!! Just like the financial advisor
that doesn't charge a flat fee, the car salesperson, the annuity agent, etc.

 

My agent charges a FLAT FEE (Full service agent) of 2,995 regardless of the
sale price. Which means, that she gets 2,995 for a house that sells for 200K
or 2Million whether she finds the buyer or another agent finds the buyer.
Hence, NO CONFLICT OF INTEREST and every home gets the same amount of HARD
WORK!!

 

Best wishes,

 

-Naji

 

 

 

 


  _____  


From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of Don Lynch
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:16 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

I don't know what your problem  is with realtors. Maybe you need to team up
with Obama and go after doctors, lawyers, plumbers, iron workers, etc. etc.
If you don't like realtors...DON'T USE THEM! And I don't know where you get
your figures from because I work my butt off to makeover $50k....it isn't as
easy as you think. MLS is a proprietary system set up for realtors. If you
want access to sales  go to the tax records and assemble the info
yourself...this work and effort is not FREE! Again, if you think realtors
are ripping you off, don't use them.

 

Signed, a hard working honest realtor...

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Naji <mailto:nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>  

To: 5-dayforum at howtosellyourhomein5days.com 

Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:03 PM

Subject: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

Good article regarding the NAR and their monopolistic hold. This was written
in 2005 and many laws and lawsuits against the NAR have been won since then
that have changed a few things but much more needs to be done to have a fair
system:

 

http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/public/workshops/rewcom/213351.htm

 

 

 

 

 


  _____  


_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

Donald C. Lynch
500 Smokey Hollow Drive
Waxhaw , NC 28173
(704) 843-1392 - Office
(704) 243-3971 - fax
(407) 257-7845 - cell
(800) 880-7845
(704) 843-8325 - home
dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/


  _____  


_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

Donald C. Lynch
500 Smokey Hollow Drive
Waxhaw , NC 28173
(704) 843-1392 - Office
(704) 243-3971 - fax
(407) 257-7845 - cell
(800) 880-7845
(704) 843-8325 - home
dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/

 


  _____  


_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

Donald C. Lynch
500 Smokey Hollow Drive
Waxhaw, NC 28173
(704) 843-1392 - Office
(704) 243-3971 - fax
(407) 257-7845 - cell
(800) 880-7845
(704) 843-8325 - home
dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/

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From dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com  Mon Mar  9 23:55:26 2009
From: dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com (Don Lynch)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 23:55:26 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker
In-Reply-To: <DE2CB5B67B0946E0AB1FEF207DB15446@NSKHome>
References: <80D244F41801405CA51CFC6CA4752F36@NSKHome><17DB3D6863FC46918ABC03B6AFA6A494@Main><9631F7563E2E46FDBD0B31464B83A86D@NSKHome><663316.14472.qm@web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com><9735E643D89246ADA470C42B4D484250@jamesfleming><BED67CC8F69342C08B53ACD4CE228990@NSKHome><DD98F4ED8AF64FB7AA5A8D92D488BB67@Main><2CB989CA9B12466689C589FD5E0C028B@NSKHome><75812.54184.qm@web53203.mail.re2.yahoo.com><A47B4D09002A40B89CB65FB03D0E971F@NSKHome><B771FCFB12A34F3FACC2557E622A794E@Main>
	<DE2CB5B67B0946E0AB1FEF207DB15446@NSKHome>
Message-ID: <B18D493C6A434A24B9417133BF72ADD2@Main>

Your math is grossly flawed and narrow-minded. for one thing selling time and prospecting time =100% of an agents time. Most agents I know spend a heck of a lot more than 40 hrs a week to make a decent living. And during these times it takes even more hours. Again Naji, if you have found an agent who will work for peanuts, more power to you, and you better hold on to her. Even in these hard times I wouldn't touch your deal on the sellers side with a ten-foot pole. Money is king but not all who have it are princes! Have a good day.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Naji 
  To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days' 
  Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 11:43 PM
  Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker


  Hmmm. Let me see, my agent sells every property that I send her way, she makes $2,995 on each property. The average Realtor spends less than 12% of their time actually selling and 88% of the time prospecting. So, 12% of 40 hours per week X 5 weeks = 24 Hours. If she only sells 1 home a month that would be 2995/24 = $124.79/Hr. How is 125 bucks an hour considered slavery?

   

   


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  From: 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Don Lynch
  Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 11:30 PM
  To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
  Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

   

  Welcome to Naji world where only Naji can make a profit.....I thought slavery was abolished? Hmmmm....

    ----- Original Message ----- 

    From: Naji 

    To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days' 

    Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 11:26 PM

    Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

     

    - Example when I buy:

     

    Home listed on MLS for $500,000. Assuming listing agent offering 3% commission to Buyer's Agent and assuming listing agent is collecting 3% for his/her services. Here's what happens if I use my flat fee agent:

     

    At closing, 6% commission is split between the two agents = 15K each.

     

    My agent collects the 15K, deducts the 2,995 Fee, and rebates me the difference of $12,005 as a credit at closing, a check within 10 days of closing, or a combination of both.

     

    - Example when I sell (when not using the 5-day method or sometimes when using it in conjunction with Real Estate Agent/MLS):

     

    I list the home with my agent for $500K and offer a 3% commission to buyer's agent. My agent will spend money out of pocket of approximately $500 to market the property:

     

      1.. If she finds the buyer, she only collects her $2,995 Fee. I keep $497,005 
      2.. If another agent brings a buyer, she collect $2,995, the buyer's agent collects $15,000. I keep $482,005 
      3.. If the listing expires and the home doesn't sell (which has not happened yet since I'm a realistic seller), she collects nothing & I pay nothing. Additionally, I can cancel my contract at any time without any questions asked and without any cancellation fees or marketing fees 
     

     

    My brother used my agent 2 months ago to purchase a home. She collected 2,995 out of the 3% commission, rebated him & his wife $6,950 as a credit at closing, and sent him a check for $2,135 ten days after closing.

     

    I hope this answers your question.

     

    -Naji

     


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Damian Colden
    Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 10:43 PM
    To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
    Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

     

    Could you elaborate on this with an example?

    Because they only charge $2,995 and rebate the difference when a commission is offered

    Thank you.

     

    Dac Colden

     

     


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: Naji <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>
    To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
    Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 10:01:26 PM
    Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

    -          Correction. I know exactly what I'm talking about. Usually a nerve is struck when the truth is told. 

    -          No BS here, just facts. Read the Nine Pillars of The Citadel first or a paper by Mark S. Nadel http://aei-brookings.org/admin/authorpdfs/redirect-safely.php?fname=../pdffiles/phpXf.pdf

    -          No problem with ALL realtors. Problem with a broken monopolistic model.

    -          No bone to pick and No envy

    -          I wouldn't call an agent to show me a property unless they charge a flat fee for their service just as I would only use a financial advisor that only charges a flat fee as well. BTW, I use an agent that simply charges a FLAT FEE for their FULL SERVICE every time I buy an investment property or any other property. Why you may ask? Because they only charge $2,995 and rebate the difference when a commission is offered

    -          No, you did not hit a nerve, but thank you for asking

    -          Incorrect again. When I decide to purchase a property, it's purely from an investment point of view... If the price is right and it makes sense financially, then I move forward. It's doesn't matter if it's FSBO, REO, MLS, SS, or any other type it may be.

     

    As Upton Sinclair said "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on him not understanding it."

     

    -Naji

     

     


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Don Lynch
    Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 9:33 PM
    To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
    Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

     

    Naji, You HAVE struck a nerve because you don't know what you are talking about. The BS is spewing from where you stand. Again, I don't know what your problem with realtor's is (full service or otherwise) but I do know you have some kind of bone to pick, maybe some kind of envy. I bet you would have no trouble calling an agent to glean as much information about a property and even have him show it to you, and then turn around and circumvent him/her. Did I hit a nerve? Another question...when you are looking for a property to buy and you find out it is a FSBO do you automatically in your mind subtract 6% from the offer? I'll bet you do.

     

    Signed, an honest hard working (with no conflict of interest, perceived or otherwise) realtor

      ----- Original Message ----- 

      From: Naji 

      To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days' 

      Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 9:21 PM

      Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

       

      Jim,

       

      Obviously I hit a sensitive nerve with many Realtors on this issue. You and I know that in the Realtors world, it's all about protecting the commission, period. So, let's not fool ourselves with the standard NAR BS and scare tactics that's been circulating for many decades. The big stock brokerage firms used to say the same thing about the E-Trade's and Ameritrade's of the world. where are Bear Stearns and Merrill Lynch today? Same thing was said about Wal-Mart, Amazon.com, Google, and many more industry leaders that decided to get away from the antiquated business as usual model. 

       

      Regarding conflict of interest. It doesn't matter how many laws are written, or how many disclosures are signed, a conflict of interest automatically exists. You don't get paid unless the house sells. Therefore, whether a sale is a good move or a bad move for the buyer or seller, it doesn't matter because you don't get paid if the sale doesn't close. I know this is difficult to understand, but I think Author Upton Sinclair explains it best "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on him not understanding it."

       

      Did you read Nine Pillars of the Citadel?

       

      Every monopoly will eventually be broken. The stranglehold of the NAR will as well.. The sooner the average American consumer gets educated the sooner this will happen.

       

      Best regards,

       

      -Naji

       


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

      From: 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of James Fleming
      Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 8:12 PM
      To: ' How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days '
      Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

       

      Thank you Lauri for your posting.  I agree with you that the portrayal of doctors and lawyers as professionals who charge simple flat fees is incorrect.  Anyone who has ever worked at a law firm or medical facility knows better.  Anyone who has ever had serious legal or medical bills knows better.  

       

      Furthermore, lawyers and doctors are not paid based on results.  Whether a lawyer wins or loses, you pay.  Whether a doctor heals you or not, you pay.  They get paid handsomely whether they succeed or fail.  It would be difficult to design an arrangement more laden with potential conflict of interest issues.  If you doubt this, just look at the amount of mal-practice and E & O coverage that these professions carry.  

       

      Naji, to emphasize the inequity of a 6% Realtor commission, states that "If a doctor, attorney, plumber, or iron worker was to charge 6% of the average American's largest asset, I would not use them either."  Sounds compelling until you really think about it.  What doctors and lawyers (I'm leaving out plumbers and iron workers because, in my opinion, they were included to make a point but really have no place in the argument) charge is often several times more than 100% of the average Americans largest asset.  Think about it.  How many bankruptcies are filed every day by average Americans because of medical and/or legal bills?  Actually, it might eliminate a large percentage of bankruptcy filings if we could limit our medical/legal bills to 6% of our most valuable asset in the event of major health and legal issues.  I like it.

       

      Turning to conflicts of interest, the laws of agency in real estate transactions were written largely for the purpose of eliminating conflicts of interest.  These laws now apply in every state.  In practice today, Realtors either represent sellers or they represent buyers.  The exception to this occurs when the Realtor acts as a "dual agent".   In instances of dual agency, however, the Realtor must act neutrally.  S/he may not advocate for either party, but instead must simply conduct that transaction at the direction of both being careful not to be pulled into conflicts of interest along the way.  If one comes up, it must be disclosed to both parties.

       

      Naji, however, points to a few examples of conflicts of interest that are different from above.  I'd like to address a couple of them.  Naji mentions, for example, "If you're not charging a FLAT FEE for your services, you automatically have a built-in conflict of interest, period!! Just like the financial advisor that doesn't charge a flat fee, the car salesperson, the annuity agent, etc."  I would suggest that whether any of these people are paid on a commission or on a flat fee basis, their job is to sell you products and services.  Your job as the buyer is to make informed decisions.  The sales people do not represent you, the buyer, in any of these examples.  If Naji's point is that the sales person will try to sell the product or service that pays the most commission, then again, it is up to the buyer to sort through this and make an informed decision.

       

      The advantage in real estate is that you can have an advocate whether you are a buyer or a seller.  Seller's agents manage their listings with the goal of pricing them properly and marketing them extensively.  They never know what the mix of buyers is at any point in time.  When a buyer comes along, they do everything they can to promote the best interests of their client - the seller.  Equally, when a buyer's agent presents an offer on behalf of a client, it is the buyer's interests that the agent promotes above all.  Each of these agents has a fiduciary responsibility to their respective client.  This is true whether your Realtor is working for a flat fee or for a commission.

       

      As a practical consideration, many flat fee brokerages are what are called "limited service" brokerages.  In other words, they offer a menu of services from which their clients can choose.  Clients only pay for what they get.  For example, the brokerage may have one fee for listing your property in the MLS, another for placing a sign in your yard, another for flyers, another for a lockbox, another for advertising online, another for showing your property to buyers, another for conducting open houses, yet another for negotiating the sale with the buyer's agent, and so on.  Generally, firms with this approach find it hard to stay in business as evidenced by the recent (and third) bankruptcy filing of Help-U-Sell.  They tend to appeal to uninformed first- time sellers or financially strapped sellers who are desperate and don't know what they don't know.  

       

      These two groups of sellers typically believe that real estate agents are paid too much for the services they provide.  They typically argue their point by using hypothetical comparisons. They point to the associated costs of sales made with and without full service Realtors.  They either point to the increased money that one can make if a Realtor is excluded from the equation, or the decreased amount they can get for their house while still making the same net amount if they had sold it for more using a Realtor.  In the abstract, the same argument can be made for representing yourself in court, or doing your own dental fillings.  In the real world, however, ALL of life's issues come into play.  People, who make decisions based upon hypothetical or artificial constructs, greatly increase their chances of unintended consequences.  Unfortunately, these are often the same people who, as kids, had to discover for themselves the perils of touching a hot stove.

       

      Jim Fleming, Realtor and Lecturer

      Vancouver, WA

       

       


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

      From: 5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Soak Up the Sun
      Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 2:21 PM
      To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
      Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

       

      I don't usually have a lot to say on the forums, however, I read all the posts.
      I have to say, if you think Doctors and Lawyers charge flat fees, you are sorely mistaken.
      I'm glad that you are happy with the flat fee real estate person that you are using, and hope that they continue to meet your needs.
      Lauri

       


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

      From: Naji <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>
      To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
      Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 11:38:02 AM
      Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

      Dear PO 'd Realtor,

       

      I don't have a problem with ALL Realtors. I have a problem with Realtors that charge a commission due to the built-in conflict of interest. I will continue to use Realtors that charge a fair FLAT FEE for their services.

       

      -          Doctors - No commissions

      -          Attorneys - No commissions

      -          Plumbers - No commissions

      -          Iron Workers - No commissions

      -          Etc.

       

      If a doctor, attorney, plumber, or iron worker was to charge 6% of the average American's largest asset, I would not use them either. As for the MLS, the cost associated with using the MLS is minimal for any licensed real estate agent, plus you don't have to be part of NAR or Local Realtor Association to have access to MLS. Additionally, gathering all the "information" you are talking about takes minutes online.

       

      If you're not charging a FLAT FEE for your services, you automatically have a built-in conflict of interest, period!! Just like the financial advisor that doesn't charge a flat fee, the car salesperson, the annuity agent, etc.

       

      My agent charges a FLAT FEE (Full service agent) of 2,995 regardless of the sale price. Which means, that she gets 2,995 for a house that sells for 200K or 2Million whether she finds the buyer or another agent finds the buyer. Hence, NO CONFLICT OF INTEREST and every home gets the same amount of HARD WORK!!

       

      Best wishes,

       

      -Naji

       

       

       

       


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

      From: 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Don Lynch
      Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:16 PM
      To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
      Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

       

      I don't know what your problem  is with realtors. Maybe you need to team up with Obama and go after doctors, lawyers, plumbers, iron workers, etc. etc. If you don't like realtors...DON'T USE THEM! And I don't know where you get your figures from because I work my butt off to makeover $50k....it isn't as easy as you think. MLS is a proprietary system set up for realtors. If you want access to sales  go to the tax records and assemble the info yourself...this work and effort is not FREE! Again, if you think realtors are ripping you off, don't use them.

       

      Signed, a hard working honest realtor...

        ----- Original Message ----- 

        From: Naji 

        To: 5-dayforum at howtosellyourhomein5days.com 

        Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:03 PM

        Subject: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

         

        Good article regarding the NAR and their monopolistic hold. This was written in 2005 and many laws and lawsuits against the NAR have been won since then that have changed a few things but much more needs to be done to have a fair system:

         

        http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/public/workshops/rewcom/213351.htm

         

         

         

         

         


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      Donald C. Lynch
      500 Smokey Hollow Drive
      Waxhaw , NC 28173
      (704) 843-1392 - Office
      (704) 243-3971 - fax
      (407) 257-7845 - cell
      (800) 880-7845
      (704) 843-8325 - home
      dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
      http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/


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      5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
      http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

    Donald C. Lynch
    500 Smokey Hollow Drive
    Waxhaw , NC 28173
    (704) 843-1392 - Office
    (704) 243-3971 - fax
    (407) 257-7845 - cell
    (800) 880-7845
    (704) 843-8325 - home
    dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
    http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/

     


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    5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
    http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

  Donald C. Lynch
  500 Smokey Hollow Drive
  Waxhaw, NC 28173
  (704) 843-1392 - Office
  (704) 243-3971 - fax
  (407) 257-7845 - cell
  (800) 880-7845
  (704) 843-8325 - home
  dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
  http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/



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  5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
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Donald C. Lynch
500 Smokey Hollow Drive
Waxhaw, NC 28173
(704) 843-1392 - Office
(704) 243-3971 - fax
(407) 257-7845 - cell
(800) 880-7845
(704) 843-8325 - home
dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/
-------------- next part --------------
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From nkhouri at cfl.rr.com  Tue Mar 10 00:05:51 2009
From: nkhouri at cfl.rr.com (Naji)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 00:05:51 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker
In-Reply-To: <B18D493C6A434A24B9417133BF72ADD2@Main>
References: <80D244F41801405CA51CFC6CA4752F36@NSKHome><17DB3D6863FC46918ABC03B6AFA6A494@Main><9631F7563E2E46FDBD0B31464B83A86D@NSKHome><663316.14472.qm@web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com><9735E643D89246ADA470C42B4D484250@jamesfleming><BED67CC8F69342C08B53ACD4CE228990@NSKHome><DD98F4ED8AF64FB7AA5A8D92D488BB67@Main><2CB989CA9B12466689C589FD5E0C028B@NSKHome><75812.54184.qm@web53203.mail.re2.yahoo.com><A47B4D09002A40B89CB65FB03D0E971F@NSKHome><B771FCFB12A34F3FACC2557E622A794E@Main><DE2CB5B67B0946E0AB1FEF207DB15446@NSKHome>
	<B18D493C6A434A24B9417133BF72ADD2@Main>
Message-ID: <07C5BF7697494A06BA3481A21408CB20@NSKHome>

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary
depends on him not understanding it." - Upton Sinclair

 

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of Don Lynch
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 11:55 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

Your math is grossly flawed and narrow-minded. for one thing selling time
and prospecting time =100% of an agents time. Most agents I know spend a
heck of a lot more than 40 hrs a week to make a decent living. And during
these times it takes even more hours. Again Naji, if you have found an agent
who will work for peanuts, more power to you, and you better hold on to her.
Even in these hard times I wouldn't touch your deal on the sellers side with
a ten-foot pole. Money is king but not all who have it are princes! Have a
good day.

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Naji <mailto:nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>  

To: 'How To Sell Your Home
<mailto:5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>  in 5-Days' 

Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 11:43 PM

Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

Hmmm. Let me see, my agent sells every property that I send her way, she
makes $2,995 on each property. The average Realtor spends less than 12% of
their time actually selling and 88% of the time prospecting. So, 12% of 40
hours per week X 5 weeks = 24 Hours. If she only sells 1 home a month that
would be 2995/24 = $124.79/Hr. How is 125 bucks an hour considered slavery?

 

 


  _____  


From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of Don Lynch
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 11:30 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

Welcome to Naji world where only Naji can make a profit.....I thought
slavery was abolished? Hmmmm....

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Naji <mailto:nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>  

To: 'How To Sell Your Home
<mailto:5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>  in 5-Days' 

Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 11:26 PM

Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

- Example when I buy:

 

Home listed on MLS for $500,000. Assuming listing agent offering 3%
commission to Buyer's Agent and assuming listing agent is collecting 3% for
his/her services. Here's what happens if I use my flat fee agent:

 

At closing, 6% commission is split between the two agents = 15K each.

 

My agent collects the 15K, deducts the 2,995 Fee, and rebates me the
difference of $12,005 as a credit at closing, a check within 10 days of
closing, or a combination of both.

 

- Example when I sell (when not using the 5-day method or sometimes when
using it in conjunction with Real Estate Agent/MLS):

 

I list the home with my agent for $500K and offer a 3% commission to buyer's
agent. My agent will spend money out of pocket of approximately $500 to
market the property:

 

1.	If she finds the buyer, she only collects her $2,995 Fee. I keep
$497,005 
2.	If another agent brings a buyer, she collect $2,995, the buyer's
agent collects $15,000. I keep $482,005 
3.	If the listing expires and the home doesn't sell (which has not
happened yet since I'm a realistic seller), she collects nothing & I pay
nothing. Additionally, I can cancel my contract at any time without any
questions asked and without any cancellation fees or marketing fees 

 

 

My brother used my agent 2 months ago to purchase a home. She collected
2,995 out of the 3% commission, rebated him & his wife $6,950 as a credit at
closing, and sent him a check for $2,135 ten days after closing.

 

I hope this answers your question.

 

-Naji

 


  _____  


From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of Damian Colden
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 10:43 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

Could you elaborate on this with an example?

Because they only charge $2,995 and rebate the difference when a commission
is offered

Thank you.

 

Dac Colden

 

 


  _____  


From: Naji <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
<5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 10:01:26 PM
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

-          Correction. I know exactly what I'm talking about. Usually a
nerve is struck when the truth is told. 

-          No BS here, just facts. Read the Nine Pillars of The Citadel
first or a paper by Mark S. Nadel
http://aei-brookings.org/admin/authorpdfs/redirect-safely.php?fname=../pdffi
les/phpXf.pdf

-          No problem with ALL realtors. Problem with a broken monopolistic
model.

-          No bone to pick and No envy

-          I wouldn't call an agent to show me a property unless they charge
a flat fee for their service just as I would only use a financial advisor
that only charges a flat fee as well. BTW, I use an agent that simply
charges a FLAT FEE for their FULL SERVICE every time I buy an investment
property or any other property. Why you may ask? Because they only charge
$2,995 and rebate the difference when a commission is offered

-          No, you did not hit a nerve, but thank you for asking

-          Incorrect again. When I decide to purchase a property, it's
purely from an investment point of view... If the price is right and it
makes sense financially, then I move forward. It's doesn't matter if it's
FSBO, REO, MLS, SS, or any other type it may be.

 

As Upton Sinclair said "It is difficult to get a man to understand something
when his salary depends on him not understanding it."

 

-Naji

 

 


  _____  


From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of Don Lynch
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 9:33 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

Naji, You HAVE struck a nerve because you don't know what you are talking
about. The BS is spewing from where you stand. Again, I don't know what your
problem with realtor's is (full service or otherwise) but I do know you have
some kind of bone to pick, maybe some kind of envy. I bet you would have no
trouble calling an agent to glean as much information about a property and
even have him show it to you, and then turn around and circumvent him/her.
Did I hit a nerve? Another question...when you are looking for a property to
buy and you find out it is a FSBO do you automatically in your mind subtract
6% from the offer? I'll bet you do.

 

Signed, an honest hard working (with no conflict of interest, perceived or
otherwise) realtor

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Naji <mailto:nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>  

To: 'How To Sell <mailto:5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Your Home in 5-Days' 

Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 9:21 PM

Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

Jim,

 

Obviously I hit a sensitive nerve with many Realtors on this issue. You and
I know that in the Realtors world, it's all about protecting the commission,
period. So, let's not fool ourselves with the standard NAR BS and scare
tactics that's been circulating for many decades. The big stock brokerage
firms used to say the same thing about the E-Trade's and Ameritrade's of the
world. where are Bear Stearns and Merrill Lynch today? Same thing was said
about Wal-Mart, Amazon.com, Google, and many more industry leaders that
decided to get away from the antiquated business as usual model. 

 

Regarding conflict of interest. It doesn't matter how many laws are written,
or how many disclosures are signed, a conflict of interest automatically
exists. You don't get paid unless the house sells. Therefore, whether a sale
is a good move or a bad move for the buyer or seller, it doesn't matter
because you don't get paid if the sale doesn't close. I know this is
difficult to understand, but I think Author Upton Sinclair explains it best
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary
depends on him not understanding it."

 

Did you read Nine Pillars of the Citadel?

 

Every monopoly will eventually be broken. The stranglehold of the NAR will
as well.. The sooner the average American consumer gets educated the sooner
this will happen.

 

Best regards,

 

-Naji

 


  _____  


From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of James Fleming
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 8:12 PM
To: ' How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days '
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

Thank you Lauri for your posting.  I agree with you that the portrayal of
doctors and lawyers as professionals who charge simple flat fees is
incorrect.  Anyone who has ever worked at a law firm or medical facility
knows better.  Anyone who has ever had serious legal or medical bills knows
better.  

 

Furthermore, lawyers and doctors are not paid based on results.  Whether a
lawyer wins or loses, you pay.  Whether a doctor heals you or not, you pay.
They get paid handsomely whether they succeed or fail.  It would be
difficult to design an arrangement more laden with potential conflict of
interest issues.  If you doubt this, just look at the amount of mal-practice
and E & O coverage that these professions carry.  

 

Naji, to emphasize the inequity of a 6% Realtor commission, states that "If
a doctor, attorney, plumber, or iron worker was to charge 6% of the average
American's largest asset, I would not use them either."  Sounds compelling
until you really think about it.  What doctors and lawyers (I'm leaving out
plumbers and iron workers because, in my opinion, they were included to make
a point but really have no place in the argument) charge is often several
times more than 100% of the average Americans largest asset.  Think about
it.  How many bankruptcies are filed every day by average Americans because
of medical and/or legal bills?  Actually, it might eliminate a large
percentage of bankruptcy filings if we could limit our medical/legal bills
to 6% of our most valuable asset in the event of major health and legal
issues.  I like it.

 

Turning to conflicts of interest, the laws of agency in real estate
transactions were written largely for the purpose of eliminating conflicts
of interest.  These laws now apply in every state.  In practice today,
Realtors either represent sellers or they represent buyers.  The exception
to this occurs when the Realtor acts as a "dual agent".   In instances of
dual agency, however, the Realtor must act neutrally.  S/he may not advocate
for either party, but instead must simply conduct that transaction at the
direction of both being careful not to be pulled into conflicts of interest
along the way.  If one comes up, it must be disclosed to both parties.

 

Naji, however, points to a few examples of conflicts of interest that are
different from above.  I'd like to address a couple of them.  Naji mentions,
for example, "If you're not charging a FLAT FEE for your services, you
automatically have a built-in conflict of interest, period!! Just like the
financial advisor that doesn't charge a flat fee, the car salesperson, the
annuity agent, etc."  I would suggest that whether any of these people are
paid on a commission or on a flat fee basis, their job is to sell you
products and services.  Your job as the buyer is to make informed decisions.
The sales people do not represent you, the buyer, in any of these examples.
If Naji's point is that the sales person will try to sell the product or
service that pays the most commission, then again, it is up to the buyer to
sort through this and make an informed decision.

 

The advantage in real estate is that you can have an advocate whether you
are a buyer or a seller.  Seller's agents manage their listings with the
goal of pricing them properly and marketing them extensively.  They never
know what the mix of buyers is at any point in time.  When a buyer comes
along, they do everything they can to promote the best interests of their
client - the seller.  Equally, when a buyer's agent presents an offer on
behalf of a client, it is the buyer's interests that the agent promotes
above all.  Each of these agents has a fiduciary responsibility to their
respective client.  This is true whether your Realtor is working for a flat
fee or for a commission.

 

As a practical consideration, many flat fee brokerages are what are called
"limited service" brokerages.  In other words, they offer a menu of services
from which their clients can choose.  Clients only pay for what they get.
For example, the brokerage may have one fee for listing your property in the
MLS, another for placing a sign in your yard, another for flyers, another
for a lockbox, another for advertising online, another for showing your
property to buyers, another for conducting open houses, yet another for
negotiating the sale with the buyer's agent, and so on.  Generally, firms
with this approach find it hard to stay in business as evidenced by the
recent (and third) bankruptcy filing of Help-U-Sell.  They tend to appeal to
uninformed first- time sellers or financially strapped sellers who are
desperate and don't know what they don't know.  

 

These two groups of sellers typically believe that real estate agents are
paid too much for the services they provide.  They typically argue their
point by using hypothetical comparisons. They point to the associated costs
of sales made with and without full service Realtors.  They either point to
the increased money that one can make if a Realtor is excluded from the
equation, or the decreased amount they can get for their house while still
making the same net amount if they had sold it for more using a Realtor.  In
the abstract, the same argument can be made for representing yourself in
court, or doing your own dental fillings.  In the real world, however, ALL
of life's issues come into play.  People, who make decisions based upon
hypothetical or artificial constructs, greatly increase their chances of
unintended consequences.  Unfortunately, these are often the same people
who, as kids, had to discover for themselves the perils of touching a hot
stove.

 

Jim Fleming, Realtor and Lecturer

Vancouver, WA

 

 


  _____  


From:
5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourho
mein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtose
llyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Soak Up the Sun
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 2:21 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

I don't usually have a lot to say on the forums, however, I read all the
posts.
I have to say, if you think Doctors and Lawyers charge flat fees, you are
sorely mistaken.
I'm glad that you are happy with the flat fee real estate person that you
are using, and hope that they continue to meet your needs.
Lauri

 


  _____  


From: Naji <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
<5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 11:38:02 AM
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

Dear PO 'd Realtor,

 

I don't have a problem with ALL Realtors. I have a problem with Realtors
that charge a commission due to the built-in conflict of interest. I will
continue to use Realtors that charge a fair FLAT FEE for their services.

 

-          Doctors - No commissions

-          Attorneys - No commissions

-          Plumbers - No commissions

-          Iron Workers - No commissions

-          Etc.

 

If a doctor, attorney, plumber, or iron worker was to charge 6% of the
average American's largest asset, I would not use them either. As for the
MLS, the cost associated with using the MLS is minimal for any licensed real
estate agent, plus you don't have to be part of NAR or Local Realtor
Association to have access to MLS. Additionally, gathering all the
"information" you are talking about takes minutes online.

 

If you're not charging a FLAT FEE for your services, you automatically have
a built-in conflict of interest, period!! Just like the financial advisor
that doesn't charge a flat fee, the car salesperson, the annuity agent, etc.

 

My agent charges a FLAT FEE (Full service agent) of 2,995 regardless of the
sale price. Which means, that she gets 2,995 for a house that sells for 200K
or 2Million whether she finds the buyer or another agent finds the buyer.
Hence, NO CONFLICT OF INTEREST and every home gets the same amount of HARD
WORK!!

 

Best wishes,

 

-Naji

 

 

 

 


  _____  


From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of Don Lynch
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:16 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

I don't know what your problem  is with realtors. Maybe you need to team up
with Obama and go after doctors, lawyers, plumbers, iron workers, etc. etc.
If you don't like realtors...DON'T USE THEM! And I don't know where you get
your figures from because I work my butt off to makeover $50k....it isn't as
easy as you think. MLS is a proprietary system set up for realtors. If you
want access to sales  go to the tax records and assemble the info
yourself...this work and effort is not FREE! Again, if you think realtors
are ripping you off, don't use them.

 

Signed, a hard working honest realtor...

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Naji <mailto:nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>  

To: 5-dayforum at howtosellyourhomein5days.com 

Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:03 PM

Subject: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

Good article regarding the NAR and their monopolistic hold. This was written
in 2005 and many laws and lawsuits against the NAR have been won since then
that have changed a few things but much more needs to be done to have a fair
system:

 

http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/public/workshops/rewcom/213351.htm

 

 

 

 

 


  _____  


_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

Donald C. Lynch
500 Smokey Hollow Drive
Waxhaw , NC 28173
(704) 843-1392 - Office
(704) 243-3971 - fax
(407) 257-7845 - cell
(800) 880-7845
(704) 843-8325 - home
dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/


  _____  


_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

Donald C. Lynch
500 Smokey Hollow Drive
Waxhaw , NC 28173
(704) 843-1392 - Office
(704) 243-3971 - fax
(407) 257-7845 - cell
(800) 880-7845
(704) 843-8325 - home
dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/

 


  _____  


_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

Donald C. Lynch
500 Smokey Hollow Drive
Waxhaw, NC 28173
(704) 843-1392 - Office
(704) 243-3971 - fax
(407) 257-7845 - cell
(800) 880-7845
(704) 843-8325 - home
dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/


  _____  


_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

Donald C. Lynch
500 Smokey Hollow Drive
Waxhaw, NC 28173
(704) 843-1392 - Office
(704) 243-3971 - fax
(407) 257-7845 - cell
(800) 880-7845
(704) 843-8325 - home
dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/

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From dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com  Tue Mar 10 00:07:32 2009
From: dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com (Don Lynch)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 00:07:32 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker
In-Reply-To: <07C5BF7697494A06BA3481A21408CB20@NSKHome>
References: <80D244F41801405CA51CFC6CA4752F36@NSKHome><17DB3D6863FC46918ABC03B6AFA6A494@Main><9631F7563E2E46FDBD0B31464B83A86D@NSKHome><663316.14472.qm@web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com><9735E643D89246ADA470C42B4D484250@jamesfleming><BED67CC8F69342C08B53ACD4CE228990@NSKHome><DD98F4ED8AF64FB7AA5A8D92D488BB67@Main><2CB989CA9B12466689C589FD5E0C028B@NSKHome><75812.54184.qm@web53203.mail.re2.yahoo.com><A47B4D09002A40B89CB65FB03D0E971F@NSKHome><B771FCFB12A34F3FACC2557E622A794E@Main><DE2CB5B67B0946E0AB1FEF207DB15446@NSKHome><B18D493C6A434A24B9417133BF72ADD2@Main>
	<07C5BF7697494A06BA3481A21408CB20@NSKHome>
Message-ID: <91C6B436BDCE463CBB36C6870C1D9BB7@Main>

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his profits depends on him not understanding it." - Don Lynch

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Naji 
  To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days' 
  Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 12:05 AM
  Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker


  "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on him not understanding it." - Upton Sinclair

   

   


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  From: 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Don Lynch
  Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 11:55 PM
  To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
  Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

   

  Your math is grossly flawed and narrow-minded. for one thing selling time and prospecting time =100% of an agents time. Most agents I know spend a heck of a lot more than 40 hrs a week to make a decent living. And during these times it takes even more hours. Again Naji, if you have found an agent who will work for peanuts, more power to you, and you better hold on to her. Even in these hard times I wouldn't touch your deal on the sellers side with a ten-foot pole. Money is king but not all who have it are princes! Have a good day.

    ----- Original Message ----- 

    From: Naji 

    To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days' 

    Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 11:43 PM

    Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

     

    Hmmm. Let me see, my agent sells every property that I send her way, she makes $2,995 on each property. The average Realtor spends less than 12% of their time actually selling and 88% of the time prospecting. So, 12% of 40 hours per week X 5 weeks = 24 Hours. If she only sells 1 home a month that would be 2995/24 = $124.79/Hr. How is 125 bucks an hour considered slavery?

     

     


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Don Lynch
    Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 11:30 PM
    To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
    Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

     

    Welcome to Naji world where only Naji can make a profit.....I thought slavery was abolished? Hmmmm....

      ----- Original Message ----- 

      From: Naji 

      To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days' 

      Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 11:26 PM

      Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

       

      - Example when I buy:

       

      Home listed on MLS for $500,000. Assuming listing agent offering 3% commission to Buyer's Agent and assuming listing agent is collecting 3% for his/her services. Here's what happens if I use my flat fee agent:

       

      At closing, 6% commission is split between the two agents = 15K each.

       

      My agent collects the 15K, deducts the 2,995 Fee, and rebates me the difference of $12,005 as a credit at closing, a check within 10 days of closing, or a combination of both.

       

      - Example when I sell (when not using the 5-day method or sometimes when using it in conjunction with Real Estate Agent/MLS):

       

      I list the home with my agent for $500K and offer a 3% commission to buyer's agent. My agent will spend money out of pocket of approximately $500 to market the property:

       

        1.. If she finds the buyer, she only collects her $2,995 Fee. I keep $497,005 
        2.. If another agent brings a buyer, she collect $2,995, the buyer's agent collects $15,000. I keep $482,005 
        3.. If the listing expires and the home doesn't sell (which has not happened yet since I'm a realistic seller), she collects nothing & I pay nothing. Additionally, I can cancel my contract at any time without any questions asked and without any cancellation fees or marketing fees 
       

       

      My brother used my agent 2 months ago to purchase a home. She collected 2,995 out of the 3% commission, rebated him & his wife $6,950 as a credit at closing, and sent him a check for $2,135 ten days after closing.

       

      I hope this answers your question.

       

      -Naji

       


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

      From: 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Damian Colden
      Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 10:43 PM
      To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
      Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

       

      Could you elaborate on this with an example?

      Because they only charge $2,995 and rebate the difference when a commission is offered

      Thank you.

       

      Dac Colden

       

       


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

      From: Naji <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>
      To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
      Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 10:01:26 PM
      Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

      -          Correction. I know exactly what I'm talking about. Usually a nerve is struck when the truth is told. 

      -          No BS here, just facts. Read the Nine Pillars of The Citadel first or a paper by Mark S. Nadel http://aei-brookings.org/admin/authorpdfs/redirect-safely.php?fname=../pdffiles/phpXf.pdf

      -          No problem with ALL realtors. Problem with a broken monopolistic model.

      -          No bone to pick and No envy

      -          I wouldn't call an agent to show me a property unless they charge a flat fee for their service just as I would only use a financial advisor that only charges a flat fee as well. BTW, I use an agent that simply charges a FLAT FEE for their FULL SERVICE every time I buy an investment property or any other property. Why you may ask? Because they only charge $2,995 and rebate the difference when a commission is offered

      -          No, you did not hit a nerve, but thank you for asking

      -          Incorrect again. When I decide to purchase a property, it's purely from an investment point of view... If the price is right and it makes sense financially, then I move forward. It's doesn't matter if it's FSBO, REO, MLS, SS, or any other type it may be.

       

      As Upton Sinclair said "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on him not understanding it."

       

      -Naji

       

       


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

      From: 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Don Lynch
      Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 9:33 PM
      To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
      Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

       

      Naji, You HAVE struck a nerve because you don't know what you are talking about. The BS is spewing from where you stand. Again, I don't know what your problem with realtor's is (full service or otherwise) but I do know you have some kind of bone to pick, maybe some kind of envy. I bet you would have no trouble calling an agent to glean as much information about a property and even have him show it to you, and then turn around and circumvent him/her. Did I hit a nerve? Another question...when you are looking for a property to buy and you find out it is a FSBO do you automatically in your mind subtract 6% from the offer? I'll bet you do.

       

      Signed, an honest hard working (with no conflict of interest, perceived or otherwise) realtor

        ----- Original Message ----- 

        From: Naji 

        To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days' 

        Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 9:21 PM

        Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

         

        Jim,

         

        Obviously I hit a sensitive nerve with many Realtors on this issue. You and I know that in the Realtors world, it's all about protecting the commission, period. So, let's not fool ourselves with the standard NAR BS and scare tactics that's been circulating for many decades. The big stock brokerage firms used to say the same thing about the E-Trade's and Ameritrade's of the world. where are Bear Stearns and Merrill Lynch today? Same thing was said about Wal-Mart, Amazon.com, Google, and many more industry leaders that decided to get away from the antiquated business as usual model. 

         

        Regarding conflict of interest. It doesn't matter how many laws are written, or how many disclosures are signed, a conflict of interest automatically exists. You don't get paid unless the house sells. Therefore, whether a sale is a good move or a bad move for the buyer or seller, it doesn't matter because you don't get paid if the sale doesn't close. I know this is difficult to understand, but I think Author Upton Sinclair explains it best "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on him not understanding it."

         

        Did you read Nine Pillars of the Citadel?

         

        Every monopoly will eventually be broken. The stranglehold of the NAR will as well.. The sooner the average American consumer gets educated the sooner this will happen.

         

        Best regards,

         

        -Naji

         


------------------------------------------------------------------------

        From: 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of James Fleming
        Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 8:12 PM
        To: ' How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days '
        Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

         

        Thank you Lauri for your posting.  I agree with you that the portrayal of doctors and lawyers as professionals who charge simple flat fees is incorrect.  Anyone who has ever worked at a law firm or medical facility knows better.  Anyone who has ever had serious legal or medical bills knows better.  

         

        Furthermore, lawyers and doctors are not paid based on results.  Whether a lawyer wins or loses, you pay.  Whether a doctor heals you or not, you pay.  They get paid handsomely whether they succeed or fail.  It would be difficult to design an arrangement more laden with potential conflict of interest issues.  If you doubt this, just look at the amount of mal-practice and E & O coverage that these professions carry.  

         

        Naji, to emphasize the inequity of a 6% Realtor commission, states that "If a doctor, attorney, plumber, or iron worker was to charge 6% of the average American's largest asset, I would not use them either."  Sounds compelling until you really think about it.  What doctors and lawyers (I'm leaving out plumbers and iron workers because, in my opinion, they were included to make a point but really have no place in the argument) charge is often several times more than 100% of the average Americans largest asset.  Think about it.  How many bankruptcies are filed every day by average Americans because of medical and/or legal bills?  Actually, it might eliminate a large percentage of bankruptcy filings if we could limit our medical/legal bills to 6% of our most valuable asset in the event of major health and legal issues.  I like it.

         

        Turning to conflicts of interest, the laws of agency in real estate transactions were written largely for the purpose of eliminating conflicts of interest.  These laws now apply in every state.  In practice today, Realtors either represent sellers or they represent buyers.  The exception to this occurs when the Realtor acts as a "dual agent".   In instances of dual agency, however, the Realtor must act neutrally.  S/he may not advocate for either party, but instead must simply conduct that transaction at the direction of both being careful not to be pulled into conflicts of interest along the way.  If one comes up, it must be disclosed to both parties.

         

        Naji, however, points to a few examples of conflicts of interest that are different from above.  I'd like to address a couple of them.  Naji mentions, for example, "If you're not charging a FLAT FEE for your services, you automatically have a built-in conflict of interest, period!! Just like the financial advisor that doesn't charge a flat fee, the car salesperson, the annuity agent, etc."  I would suggest that whether any of these people are paid on a commission or on a flat fee basis, their job is to sell you products and services.  Your job as the buyer is to make informed decisions.  The sales people do not represent you, the buyer, in any of these examples.  If Naji's point is that the sales person will try to sell the product or service that pays the most commission, then again, it is up to the buyer to sort through this and make an informed decision.

         

        The advantage in real estate is that you can have an advocate whether you are a buyer or a seller.  Seller's agents manage their listings with the goal of pricing them properly and marketing them extensively.  They never know what the mix of buyers is at any point in time.  When a buyer comes along, they do everything they can to promote the best interests of their client - the seller.  Equally, when a buyer's agent presents an offer on behalf of a client, it is the buyer's interests that the agent promotes above all.  Each of these agents has a fiduciary responsibility to their respective client.  This is true whether your Realtor is working for a flat fee or for a commission.

         

        As a practical consideration, many flat fee brokerages are what are called "limited service" brokerages.  In other words, they offer a menu of services from which their clients can choose.  Clients only pay for what they get.  For example, the brokerage may have one fee for listing your property in the MLS, another for placing a sign in your yard, another for flyers, another for a lockbox, another for advertising online, another for showing your property to buyers, another for conducting open houses, yet another for negotiating the sale with the buyer's agent, and so on.  Generally, firms with this approach find it hard to stay in business as evidenced by the recent (and third) bankruptcy filing of Help-U-Sell.  They tend to appeal to uninformed first- time sellers or financially strapped sellers who are desperate and don't know what they don't know.  

         

        These two groups of sellers typically believe that real estate agents are paid too much for the services they provide.  They typically argue their point by using hypothetical comparisons. They point to the associated costs of sales made with and without full service Realtors.  They either point to the increased money that one can make if a Realtor is excluded from the equation, or the decreased amount they can get for their house while still making the same net amount if they had sold it for more using a Realtor.  In the abstract, the same argument can be made for representing yourself in court, or doing your own dental fillings.  In the real world, however, ALL of life's issues come into play.  People, who make decisions based upon hypothetical or artificial constructs, greatly increase their chances of unintended consequences.  Unfortunately, these are often the same people who, as kids, had to discover for themselves the perils of touching a hot stove.

         

        Jim Fleming, Realtor and Lecturer

        Vancouver, WA

         

         


------------------------------------------------------------------------

        From: 5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Soak Up the Sun
        Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 2:21 PM
        To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
        Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

         

        I don't usually have a lot to say on the forums, however, I read all the posts.
        I have to say, if you think Doctors and Lawyers charge flat fees, you are sorely mistaken.
        I'm glad that you are happy with the flat fee real estate person that you are using, and hope that they continue to meet your needs.
        Lauri

         


------------------------------------------------------------------------

        From: Naji <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>
        To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
        Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 11:38:02 AM
        Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

        Dear PO 'd Realtor,

         

        I don't have a problem with ALL Realtors. I have a problem with Realtors that charge a commission due to the built-in conflict of interest. I will continue to use Realtors that charge a fair FLAT FEE for their services.

         

        -          Doctors - No commissions

        -          Attorneys - No commissions

        -          Plumbers - No commissions

        -          Iron Workers - No commissions

        -          Etc.

         

        If a doctor, attorney, plumber, or iron worker was to charge 6% of the average American's largest asset, I would not use them either. As for the MLS, the cost associated with using the MLS is minimal for any licensed real estate agent, plus you don't have to be part of NAR or Local Realtor Association to have access to MLS. Additionally, gathering all the "information" you are talking about takes minutes online.

         

        If you're not charging a FLAT FEE for your services, you automatically have a built-in conflict of interest, period!! Just like the financial advisor that doesn't charge a flat fee, the car salesperson, the annuity agent, etc.

         

        My agent charges a FLAT FEE (Full service agent) of 2,995 regardless of the sale price. Which means, that she gets 2,995 for a house that sells for 200K or 2Million whether she finds the buyer or another agent finds the buyer. Hence, NO CONFLICT OF INTEREST and every home gets the same amount of HARD WORK!!

         

        Best wishes,

         

        -Naji

         

         

         

         


------------------------------------------------------------------------

        From: 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Don Lynch
        Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:16 PM
        To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
        Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

         

        I don't know what your problem  is with realtors. Maybe you need to team up with Obama and go after doctors, lawyers, plumbers, iron workers, etc. etc. If you don't like realtors...DON'T USE THEM! And I don't know where you get your figures from because I work my butt off to makeover $50k....it isn't as easy as you think. MLS is a proprietary system set up for realtors. If you want access to sales  go to the tax records and assemble the info yourself...this work and effort is not FREE! Again, if you think realtors are ripping you off, don't use them.

         

        Signed, a hard working honest realtor...

          ----- Original Message ----- 

          From: Naji 

          To: 5-dayforum at howtosellyourhomein5days.com 

          Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:03 PM

          Subject: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

           

          Good article regarding the NAR and their monopolistic hold. This was written in 2005 and many laws and lawsuits against the NAR have been won since then that have changed a few things but much more needs to be done to have a fair system:

           

          http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/public/workshops/rewcom/213351.htm

           

           

           

           

           


----------------------------------------------------------------------

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          5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
          http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

        Donald C. Lynch
        500 Smokey Hollow Drive
        Waxhaw , NC 28173
        (704) 843-1392 - Office
        (704) 243-3971 - fax
        (407) 257-7845 - cell
        (800) 880-7845
        (704) 843-8325 - home
        dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
        http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/


------------------------------------------------------------------------

        _______________________________________________
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        5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
        http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

      Donald C. Lynch
      500 Smokey Hollow Drive
      Waxhaw , NC 28173
      (704) 843-1392 - Office
      (704) 243-3971 - fax
      (407) 257-7845 - cell
      (800) 880-7845
      (704) 843-8325 - home
      dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
      http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/

       


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

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    Donald C. Lynch
    500 Smokey Hollow Drive
    Waxhaw, NC 28173
    (704) 843-1392 - Office
    (704) 243-3971 - fax
    (407) 257-7845 - cell
    (800) 880-7845
    (704) 843-8325 - home
    dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
    http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/


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    5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
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  Donald C. Lynch
  500 Smokey Hollow Drive
  Waxhaw, NC 28173
  (704) 843-1392 - Office
  (704) 243-3971 - fax
  (407) 257-7845 - cell
  (800) 880-7845
  (704) 843-8325 - home
  dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
  http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/



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  5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
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Donald C. Lynch
500 Smokey Hollow Drive
Waxhaw, NC 28173
(704) 843-1392 - Office
(704) 243-3971 - fax
(407) 257-7845 - cell
(800) 880-7845
(704) 843-8325 - home
dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/
-------------- next part --------------
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From jamesfleming.realestate at gmail.com  Tue Mar 10 04:14:35 2009
From: jamesfleming.realestate at gmail.com (James Fleming)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 01:14:35 -0700
Subject: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker
In-Reply-To: <BED67CC8F69342C08B53ACD4CE228990@NSKHome>
References: <80D244F41801405CA51CFC6CA4752F36@NSKHome><17DB3D6863FC46918ABC03B6AFA6A494@Main><9631F7563E2E46FDBD0B31464B83A86D@NSKHome><663316.14472.qm@web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com><9735E643D89246ADA470C42B4D484250@jamesfleming>
	<BED67CC8F69342C08B53ACD4CE228990@NSKHome>
Message-ID: <8EE851AB35D342E6A858B02CBA687B1C@jamesfleming>

Naji,

 

It is always frustrating for me to read what appear to be exaggerations
supported by half truths.  For example, Naji, you write in your second
sentence below, "You and I know that in the Realtors world, it's all about
protecting the commission, period."  We do?  I beg your pardon, but I know
no such thing.  In my opinion, this is a gross exaggeration.  I believe that
there are only two groups of people who would support you in this portrayal
of 'what it's all about in the Realtors world': those who have a vested
interest in disseminating such propaganda, and those who have such impaired
critical thinking skills that they blindly accept your 'proof'.  

 

The proof that you offer is that (what I said about limited service
brokerage firms) is "the standard NAR BS and scare tactics that's been
circulating for many decades. The big stock brokerage firms used to say the
same thing about the E-Trades and Ameritrade's of the world.where are Bear
Stearns and Merrill Lynch today?"  First, this is an apples and oranges
comparison - pure half truths.  Stock brokerage firms are not being
discussed here.  The two industries and their respective markets are more
dissimilar than alike.  What does the whereabouts of Bear Stearns or Merrill
Lynch have to do with limited service real estate brokerage firms?  Second,
it is true that limited service real estate brokerage firms have
historically had a difficult time staying in business.  One only needs study
the history of such firms in this country to confirm this.  Third, conduct
an online search for "Help U Sell bankruptcy"; regardless of the search
engine you choose, you will find that what I reported is true.  No
exaggeration, no half truths.  

 

There is something about your overall argument about conflicts of interest,
however, that bothers me even more.  You claim that your Realtor has no
conflict of interest because she charges you a flat fee of $2995 and rebates
the balance of any earned commission directly to you.  But you claim that an
agent who is paid a commission has a conflict of interest automatically
built in.  You state that because a commissioned agent doesn't get paid
unless the house sells, a conflict of interest exists.  Do you pay your
Realtor her flat fee whether the sale closes or not?  If not, by your
definition, she is subject to the same conflict of interest as commissioned
agents.

 

Conflicts of this sort are handled as follows.  As a member of the NAR and
her local and regional associations of Realtors, your Realtor has a
fiduciary responsibility to all of her clients that is clearly spelled out
in the NAR's Code of Ethics.  As a licensed real estate agent she has a
statutory responsibility to each of her clients.  As a practical matter,
listing agents don't talk people into buying properties; they advertise the
properties so that prospective buyers are made aware of them.  Once a buyer
shows interest, the selling agent represents the buyer's interests and the
listing agent represents the seller's interests.  Neither Realtor may
interfere with or misrepresent their client's interests to benefit their
own.  These things are true whether the Realtors are receiving a flat fee or
a commission.

 

Finally, why do you maintain that the NAR has a monopoly?  If you choose to
list your property for sale without a Realtor, either as a FSBO or as a
listing with a non NAR member, you are free to do so.  If you wish to
purchase a property without the assistance of an agent, you are also free to
do so.  How is this a monopoly or a stranglehold?  You need to be either
more selective in what you read or read a lot more.  While the Nine Pillars
report is valuable and a worthwhile read, it is far from the complete
picture.  Every system can be improved, no system is perfect.  This does not
mean that imperfect systems should be abandoned.  Rather, they should be
improved continually so that they can more effectively serve their purposes.


 

Despite the fact that I disagree with your positions on these issues, I
appreciate the thought and conviction that go into them.  I have these same
disagreements with Bill Effros.  You both present intelligent arguments.
Having this forum to present and support our opposing positions is something
that I appreciate very much.  I think that our dialogue has strayed from the
real purpose of this forum, however.  The real purpose of this forum is to
help people use Bill's method; to share things that work and things that
don't and to give 5-Day sellers the support they need to successfully
complete their sales.

 

It seems like everyday I learn something new from this forum.  I hope that
this is the same experience that others are having.  Most of my posts over
the last couple of years have been for the purpose of helping other 5-Day
sellers with their sales.   I will continue to do so.

 

Kind regards,

 

Jim Fleming, Realtor & Lecturer

Vancouver WA

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourho
mein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtose
llyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Naji
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 6:22 PM
To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

Jim,

 

Obviously I hit a sensitive nerve with many Realtors on this issue. You and
I know that in the Realtors world, it's all about protecting the commission,
period. So, let's not fool ourselves with the standard NAR BS and scare
tactics that's been circulating for many decades. The big stock brokerage
firms used to say the same thing about the E-Trade's and Ameritrade's of the
world. where are Bear Stearns and Merrill Lynch today? Same thing was said
about Wal-Mart, Amazon.com, Google, and many more industry leaders that
decided to get away from the antiquated business as usual model. 

 

Regarding conflict of interest. It doesn't matter how many laws are written,
or how many disclosures are signed, a conflict of interest automatically
exists. You don't get paid unless the house sells. Therefore, whether a sale
is a good move or a bad move for the buyer or seller, it doesn't matter
because you don't get paid if the sale doesn't close. I know this is
difficult to understand, but I think Author Upton Sinclair explains it best
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary
depends on him not understanding it."

 

Did you read Nine Pillars of the Citadel?

 

Every monopoly will eventually be broken. The stranglehold of the NAR will
as well.. The sooner the average American consumer gets educated the sooner
this will happen.

 

Best regards,

 

-Naji

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of James Fleming
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 8:12 PM
To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

Thank you Lauri for your posting.  I agree with you that the portrayal of
doctors and lawyers as professionals who charge simple flat fees is
incorrect.  Anyone who has ever worked at a law firm or medical facility
knows better.  Anyone who has ever had serious legal or medical bills knows
better.  

 

Furthermore, lawyers and doctors are not paid based on results.  Whether a
lawyer wins or loses, you pay.  Whether a doctor heals you or not, you pay.
They get paid handsomely whether they succeed or fail.  It would be
difficult to design an arrangement more laden with potential conflict of
interest issues.  If you doubt this, just look at the amount of mal-practice
and E & O coverage that these professions carry.  

 

Naji, to emphasize the inequity of a 6% Realtor commission, states that "If
a doctor, attorney, plumber, or iron worker was to charge 6% of the average
American's largest asset, I would not use them either."  Sounds compelling
until you really think about it.  What doctors and lawyers (I'm leaving out
plumbers and iron workers because, in my opinion, they were included to make
a point but really have no place in the argument) charge is often several
times more than 100% of the average Americans largest asset.  Think about
it.  How many bankruptcies are filed every day by average Americans because
of medical and/or legal bills?  Actually, it might eliminate a large
percentage of bankruptcy filings if we could limit our medical/legal bills
to 6% of our most valuable asset in the event of major health and legal
issues.  I like it.

 

Turning to conflicts of interest, the laws of agency in real estate
transactions were written largely for the purpose of eliminating conflicts
of interest.  These laws now apply in every state.  In practice today,
Realtors either represent sellers or they represent buyers.  The exception
to this occurs when the Realtor acts as a "dual agent".   In instances of
dual agency, however, the Realtor must act neutrally.  S/he may not advocate
for either party, but instead must simply conduct that transaction at the
direction of both being careful not to be pulled into conflicts of interest
along the way.  If one comes up, it must be disclosed to both parties.

 

Naji, however, points to a few examples of conflicts of interest that are
different from above.  I'd like to address a couple of them.  Naji mentions,
for example, "If you're not charging a FLAT FEE for your services, you
automatically have a built-in conflict of interest, period!! Just like the
financial advisor that doesn't charge a flat fee, the car salesperson, the
annuity agent, etc."  I would suggest that whether any of these people are
paid on a commission or on a flat fee basis, their job is to sell you
products and services.  Your job as the buyer is to make informed decisions.
The sales people do not represent you, the buyer, in any of these examples.
If Naji's point is that the sales person will try to sell the product or
service that pays the most commission, then again, it is up to the buyer to
sort through this and make an informed decision.

 

The advantage in real estate is that you can have an advocate whether you
are a buyer or a seller.  Seller's agents manage their listings with the
goal of pricing them properly and marketing them extensively.  They never
know what the mix of buyers is at any point in time.  When a buyer comes
along, they do everything they can to promote the best interests of their
client - the seller.  Equally, when a buyer's agent presents an offer on
behalf of a client, it is the buyer's interests that the agent promotes
above all.  Each of these agents has a fiduciary responsibility to their
respective client.  This is true whether your Realtor is working for a flat
fee or for a commission.

 

As a practical consideration, many flat fee brokerages are what are called
"limited service" brokerages.  In other words, they offer a menu of services
from which their clients can choose.  Clients only pay for what they get.
For example, the brokerage may have one fee for listing your property in the
MLS, another for placing a sign in your yard, another for flyers, another
for a lockbox, another for advertising online, another for showing your
property to buyers, another for conducting open houses, yet another for
negotiating the sale with the buyer's agent, and so on.  Generally, firms
with this approach find it hard to stay in business as evidenced by the
recent (and third) bankruptcy filing of Help-U-Sell.  They tend to appeal to
uninformed first- time sellers or financially strapped sellers who are
desperate and don't know what they don't know.  

 

These two groups of sellers typically believe that real estate agents are
paid too much for the services they provide.  They typically argue their
point by using hypothetical comparisons. They point to the associated costs
of sales made with and without full service Realtors.  They either point to
the increased money that one can make if a Realtor is excluded from the
equation, or the decreased amount they can get for their house while still
making the same net amount if they had sold it for more using a Realtor.  In
the abstract, the same argument can be made for representing yourself in
court, or doing your own dental fillings.  In the real world, however, ALL
of life's issues come into play.  People, who make decisions based upon
hypothetical or artificial constructs, greatly increase their chances of
unintended consequences.  Unfortunately, these are often the same people
who, as kids, had to discover for themselves the perils of touching a hot
stove.

 

Jim Fleming, Realtor and Lecturer

Vancouver, WA

 

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourho
mein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtose
llyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Soak Up the Sun
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 2:21 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

I don't usually have a lot to say on the forums, however, I read all the
posts.
I have to say, if you think Doctors and Lawyers charge flat fees, you are
sorely mistaken.
I'm glad that you are happy with the flat fee real estate person that you
are using, and hope that they continue to meet your needs.
Lauri

 

  _____  

From: Naji <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
<5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 11:38:02 AM
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

Dear PO 'd Realtor,

 

I don't have a problem with ALL Realtors. I have a problem with Realtors
that charge a commission due to the built-in conflict of interest. I will
continue to use Realtors that charge a fair FLAT FEE for their services.

 

-          Doctors - No commissions

-          Attorneys - No commissions

-          Plumbers - No commissions

-          Iron Workers - No commissions

-          Etc.

 

If a doctor, attorney, plumber, or iron worker was to charge 6% of the
average American's largest asset, I would not use them either. As for the
MLS, the cost associated with using the MLS is minimal for any licensed real
estate agent, plus you don't have to be part of NAR or Local Realtor
Association to have access to MLS. Additionally, gathering all the
"information" you are talking about takes minutes online.

 

If you're not charging a FLAT FEE for your services, you automatically have
a built-in conflict of interest, period!! Just like the financial advisor
that doesn't charge a flat fee, the car salesperson, the annuity agent, etc.

 

My agent charges a FLAT FEE (Full service agent) of 2,995 regardless of the
sale price. Which means, that she gets 2,995 for a house that sells for 200K
or 2Million whether she finds the buyer or another agent finds the buyer.
Hence, NO CONFLICT OF INTEREST and every home gets the same amount of HARD
WORK!!

 

Best wishes,

 

-Naji

 

 

 

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of Don Lynch
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:16 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

I don't know what your problem  is with realtors. Maybe you need to team up
with Obama and go after doctors, lawyers, plumbers, iron workers, etc. etc.
If you don't like realtors...DON'T USE THEM! And I don't know where you get
your figures from because I work my butt off to makeover $50k....it isn't as
easy as you think. MLS is a proprietary system set up for realtors. If you
want access to sales  go to the tax records and assemble the info
yourself...this work and effort is not FREE! Again, if you think realtors
are ripping you off, don't use them.

 

Signed, a hard working honest realtor...

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Naji <mailto:nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>  

To: 5-dayforum at howtosellyourhomein5days.com 

Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:03 PM

Subject: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

Good article regarding the NAR and their monopolistic hold. This was written
in 2005 and many laws and lawsuits against the NAR have been won since then
that have changed a few things but much more needs to be done to have a fair
system:

 

http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/public/workshops/rewcom/213351.htm

 

 

 

 

 


  _____  


_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

Donald C. Lynch
500 Smokey Hollow Drive
Waxhaw , NC 28173
(704) 843-1392 - Office
(704) 243-3971 - fax
(407) 257-7845 - cell
(800) 880-7845
(704) 843-8325 - home
dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/

-------------- next part --------------
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From nkhouri at cfl.rr.com  Tue Mar 10 08:21:55 2009
From: nkhouri at cfl.rr.com (Naji)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 08:21:55 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker
In-Reply-To: <8EE851AB35D342E6A858B02CBA687B1C@jamesfleming>
References: <80D244F41801405CA51CFC6CA4752F36@NSKHome><17DB3D6863FC46918ABC03B6AFA6A494@Main><9631F7563E2E46FDBD0B31464B83A86D@NSKHome><663316.14472.qm@web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com><9735E643D89246ADA470C42B4D484250@jamesfleming><BED67CC8F69342C08B53ACD4CE228990@NSKHome>
	<8EE851AB35D342E6A858B02CBA687B1C@jamesfleming>
Message-ID: <50E67B992CA34178B529721182A4E3B6@NSKHome>

Jim,

 

I'll have to agree with you on 1 thing. "The real purpose of this forum is
to help people use Bill's method; to share things that work and things that
don't and to give 5-Day sellers the support they need to successfully
complete their sales."

 

No more discussions on my end regarding this post.

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary
depends on him not understanding it." - Upton Sinclair

-Naji

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of James Fleming
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 4:15 AM
To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

Naji,

 

It is always frustrating for me to read what appear to be exaggerations
supported by half truths.  For example, Naji, you write in your second
sentence below, "You and I know that in the Realtors world, it's all about
protecting the commission, period."  We do?  I beg your pardon, but I know
no such thing.  In my opinion, this is a gross exaggeration.  I believe that
there are only two groups of people who would support you in this portrayal
of 'what it's all about in the Realtors world': those who have a vested
interest in disseminating such propaganda, and those who have such impaired
critical thinking skills that they blindly accept your 'proof'.  

 

The proof that you offer is that (what I said about limited service
brokerage firms) is "the standard NAR BS and scare tactics that's been
circulating for many decades. The big stock brokerage firms used to say the
same thing about the E-Trades and Ameritrade's of the world.where are Bear
Stearns and Merrill Lynch today?"  First, this is an apples and oranges
comparison - pure half truths.  Stock brokerage firms are not being
discussed here.  The two industries and their respective markets are more
dissimilar than alike.  What does the whereabouts of Bear Stearns or Merrill
Lynch have to do with limited service real estate brokerage firms?  Second,
it is true that limited service real estate brokerage firms have
historically had a difficult time staying in business.  One only needs study
the history of such firms in this country to confirm this.  Third, conduct
an online search for "Help U Sell bankruptcy"; regardless of the search
engine you choose, you will find that what I reported is true.  No
exaggeration, no half truths.  

 

There is something about your overall argument about conflicts of interest,
however, that bothers me even more.  You claim that your Realtor has no
conflict of interest because she charges you a flat fee of $2995 and rebates
the balance of any earned commission directly to you.  But you claim that an
agent who is paid a commission has a conflict of interest automatically
built in.  You state that because a commissioned agent doesn't get paid
unless the house sells, a conflict of interest exists.  Do you pay your
Realtor her flat fee whether the sale closes or not?  If not, by your
definition, she is subject to the same conflict of interest as commissioned
agents.

 

Conflicts of this sort are handled as follows.  As a member of the NAR and
her local and regional associations of Realtors, your Realtor has a
fiduciary responsibility to all of her clients that is clearly spelled out
in the NAR's Code of Ethics.  As a licensed real estate agent she has a
statutory responsibility to each of her clients.  As a practical matter,
listing agents don't talk people into buying properties; they advertise the
properties so that prospective buyers are made aware of them.  Once a buyer
shows interest, the selling agent represents the buyer's interests and the
listing agent represents the seller's interests.  Neither Realtor may
interfere with or misrepresent their client's interests to benefit their
own.  These things are true whether the Realtors are receiving a flat fee or
a commission.

 

Finally, why do you maintain that the NAR has a monopoly?  If you choose to
list your property for sale without a Realtor, either as a FSBO or as a
listing with a non NAR member, you are free to do so.  If you wish to
purchase a property without the assistance of an agent, you are also free to
do so.  How is this a monopoly or a stranglehold?  You need to be either
more selective in what you read or read a lot more.  While the Nine Pillars
report is valuable and a worthwhile read, it is far from the complete
picture.  Every system can be improved, no system is perfect.  This does not
mean that imperfect systems should be abandoned.  Rather, they should be
improved continually so that they can more effectively serve their purposes.


 

Despite the fact that I disagree with your positions on these issues, I
appreciate the thought and conviction that go into them.  I have these same
disagreements with Bill Effros.  You both present intelligent arguments.
Having this forum to present and support our opposing positions is something
that I appreciate very much.  I think that our dialogue has strayed from the
real purpose of this forum, however.  The real purpose of this forum is to
help people use Bill's method; to share things that work and things that
don't and to give 5-Day sellers the support they need to successfully
complete their sales.

 

It seems like everyday I learn something new from this forum.  I hope that
this is the same experience that others are having.  Most of my posts over
the last couple of years have been for the purpose of helping other 5-Day
sellers with their sales.   I will continue to do so.

 

Kind regards,

 

Jim Fleming, Realtor & Lecturer

Vancouver WA

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourho
mein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtose
llyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Naji
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 6:22 PM
To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

Jim,

 

Obviously I hit a sensitive nerve with many Realtors on this issue. You and
I know that in the Realtors world, it's all about protecting the commission,
period. So, let's not fool ourselves with the standard NAR BS and scare
tactics that's been circulating for many decades. The big stock brokerage
firms used to say the same thing about the E-Trade's and Ameritrade's of the
world. where are Bear Stearns and Merrill Lynch today? Same thing was said
about Wal-Mart, Amazon.com, Google, and many more industry leaders that
decided to get away from the antiquated business as usual model. 

 

Regarding conflict of interest. It doesn't matter how many laws are written,
or how many disclosures are signed, a conflict of interest automatically
exists. You don't get paid unless the house sells. Therefore, whether a sale
is a good move or a bad move for the buyer or seller, it doesn't matter
because you don't get paid if the sale doesn't close. I know this is
difficult to understand, but I think Author Upton Sinclair explains it best
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary
depends on him not understanding it."

 

Did you read Nine Pillars of the Citadel?

 

Every monopoly will eventually be broken. The stranglehold of the NAR will
as well.. The sooner the average American consumer gets educated the sooner
this will happen.

 

Best regards,

 

-Naji

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of James Fleming
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 8:12 PM
To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

Thank you Lauri for your posting.  I agree with you that the portrayal of
doctors and lawyers as professionals who charge simple flat fees is
incorrect.  Anyone who has ever worked at a law firm or medical facility
knows better.  Anyone who has ever had serious legal or medical bills knows
better.  

 

Furthermore, lawyers and doctors are not paid based on results.  Whether a
lawyer wins or loses, you pay.  Whether a doctor heals you or not, you pay.
They get paid handsomely whether they succeed or fail.  It would be
difficult to design an arrangement more laden with potential conflict of
interest issues.  If you doubt this, just look at the amount of mal-practice
and E & O coverage that these professions carry.  

 

Naji, to emphasize the inequity of a 6% Realtor commission, states that "If
a doctor, attorney, plumber, or iron worker was to charge 6% of the average
American's largest asset, I would not use them either."  Sounds compelling
until you really think about it.  What doctors and lawyers (I'm leaving out
plumbers and iron workers because, in my opinion, they were included to make
a point but really have no place in the argument) charge is often several
times more than 100% of the average Americans largest asset.  Think about
it.  How many bankruptcies are filed every day by average Americans because
of medical and/or legal bills?  Actually, it might eliminate a large
percentage of bankruptcy filings if we could limit our medical/legal bills
to 6% of our most valuable asset in the event of major health and legal
issues.  I like it.

 

Turning to conflicts of interest, the laws of agency in real estate
transactions were written largely for the purpose of eliminating conflicts
of interest.  These laws now apply in every state.  In practice today,
Realtors either represent sellers or they represent buyers.  The exception
to this occurs when the Realtor acts as a "dual agent".   In instances of
dual agency, however, the Realtor must act neutrally.  S/he may not advocate
for either party, but instead must simply conduct that transaction at the
direction of both being careful not to be pulled into conflicts of interest
along the way.  If one comes up, it must be disclosed to both parties.

 

Naji, however, points to a few examples of conflicts of interest that are
different from above.  I'd like to address a couple of them.  Naji mentions,
for example, "If you're not charging a FLAT FEE for your services, you
automatically have a built-in conflict of interest, period!! Just like the
financial advisor that doesn't charge a flat fee, the car salesperson, the
annuity agent, etc."  I would suggest that whether any of these people are
paid on a commission or on a flat fee basis, their job is to sell you
products and services.  Your job as the buyer is to make informed decisions.
The sales people do not represent you, the buyer, in any of these examples.
If Naji's point is that the sales person will try to sell the product or
service that pays the most commission, then again, it is up to the buyer to
sort through this and make an informed decision.

 

The advantage in real estate is that you can have an advocate whether you
are a buyer or a seller.  Seller's agents manage their listings with the
goal of pricing them properly and marketing them extensively.  They never
know what the mix of buyers is at any point in time.  When a buyer comes
along, they do everything they can to promote the best interests of their
client - the seller.  Equally, when a buyer's agent presents an offer on
behalf of a client, it is the buyer's interests that the agent promotes
above all.  Each of these agents has a fiduciary responsibility to their
respective client.  This is true whether your Realtor is working for a flat
fee or for a commission.

 

As a practical consideration, many flat fee brokerages are what are called
"limited service" brokerages.  In other words, they offer a menu of services
from which their clients can choose.  Clients only pay for what they get.
For example, the brokerage may have one fee for listing your property in the
MLS, another for placing a sign in your yard, another for flyers, another
for a lockbox, another for advertising online, another for showing your
property to buyers, another for conducting open houses, yet another for
negotiating the sale with the buyer's agent, and so on.  Generally, firms
with this approach find it hard to stay in business as evidenced by the
recent (and third) bankruptcy filing of Help-U-Sell.  They tend to appeal to
uninformed first- time sellers or financially strapped sellers who are
desperate and don't know what they don't know.  

 

These two groups of sellers typically believe that real estate agents are
paid too much for the services they provide.  They typically argue their
point by using hypothetical comparisons. They point to the associated costs
of sales made with and without full service Realtors.  They either point to
the increased money that one can make if a Realtor is excluded from the
equation, or the decreased amount they can get for their house while still
making the same net amount if they had sold it for more using a Realtor.  In
the abstract, the same argument can be made for representing yourself in
court, or doing your own dental fillings.  In the real world, however, ALL
of life's issues come into play.  People, who make decisions based upon
hypothetical or artificial constructs, greatly increase their chances of
unintended consequences.  Unfortunately, these are often the same people
who, as kids, had to discover for themselves the perils of touching a hot
stove.

 

Jim Fleming, Realtor and Lecturer

Vancouver, WA

 

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourho
mein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtose
llyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Soak Up the Sun
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 2:21 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

I don't usually have a lot to say on the forums, however, I read all the
posts.
I have to say, if you think Doctors and Lawyers charge flat fees, you are
sorely mistaken.
I'm glad that you are happy with the flat fee real estate person that you
are using, and hope that they continue to meet your needs.
Lauri

 

  _____  

From: Naji <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
<5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 11:38:02 AM
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

Dear PO 'd Realtor,

 

I don't have a problem with ALL Realtors. I have a problem with Realtors
that charge a commission due to the built-in conflict of interest. I will
continue to use Realtors that charge a fair FLAT FEE for their services.

 

-          Doctors - No commissions

-          Attorneys - No commissions

-          Plumbers - No commissions

-          Iron Workers - No commissions

-          Etc.

 

If a doctor, attorney, plumber, or iron worker was to charge 6% of the
average American's largest asset, I would not use them either. As for the
MLS, the cost associated with using the MLS is minimal for any licensed real
estate agent, plus you don't have to be part of NAR or Local Realtor
Association to have access to MLS. Additionally, gathering all the
"information" you are talking about takes minutes online.

 

If you're not charging a FLAT FEE for your services, you automatically have
a built-in conflict of interest, period!! Just like the financial advisor
that doesn't charge a flat fee, the car salesperson, the annuity agent, etc.

 

My agent charges a FLAT FEE (Full service agent) of 2,995 regardless of the
sale price. Which means, that she gets 2,995 for a house that sells for 200K
or 2Million whether she finds the buyer or another agent finds the buyer.
Hence, NO CONFLICT OF INTEREST and every home gets the same amount of HARD
WORK!!

 

Best wishes,

 

-Naji

 

 

 

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of Don Lynch
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:16 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

I don't know what your problem  is with realtors. Maybe you need to team up
with Obama and go after doctors, lawyers, plumbers, iron workers, etc. etc.
If you don't like realtors...DON'T USE THEM! And I don't know where you get
your figures from because I work my butt off to makeover $50k....it isn't as
easy as you think. MLS is a proprietary system set up for realtors. If you
want access to sales  go to the tax records and assemble the info
yourself...this work and effort is not FREE! Again, if you think realtors
are ripping you off, don't use them.

 

Signed, a hard working honest realtor...

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Naji <mailto:nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>  

To: 5-dayforum at howtosellyourhomein5days.com 

Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:03 PM

Subject: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 

Good article regarding the NAR and their monopolistic hold. This was written
in 2005 and many laws and lawsuits against the NAR have been won since then
that have changed a few things but much more needs to be done to have a fair
system:

 

http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/public/workshops/rewcom/213351.htm

 

 

 

 

 


  _____  


_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

Donald C. Lynch
500 Smokey Hollow Drive
Waxhaw , NC 28173
(704) 843-1392 - Office
(704) 243-3971 - fax
(407) 257-7845 - cell
(800) 880-7845
(704) 843-8325 - home
dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/

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From tonynbj at gmail.com  Mon Mar  9 21:47:20 2009
From: tonynbj at gmail.com (Tony Falasca)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 20:47:20 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker
In-Reply-To: <DD98F4ED8AF64FB7AA5A8D92D488BB67@Main>
References: <80D244F41801405CA51CFC6CA4752F36@NSKHome>
	<17DB3D6863FC46918ABC03B6AFA6A494@Main>
	<9631F7563E2E46FDBD0B31464B83A86D@NSKHome>
	<663316.14472.qm@web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<9735E643D89246ADA470C42B4D484250@jamesfleming>
	<BED67CC8F69342C08B53ACD4CE228990@NSKHome>
	<DD98F4ED8AF64FB7AA5A8D92D488BB67@Main>
Message-ID: <878a8be10903091847q53d11855rf4bfddb1f48a29b6@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone! My name is Tony Falasca and I am a RE Investor /Contractor I
help anyone and everyone esp. in Memphis, Tn. when it comes to rehab!

I have not yet had my 5 day sale but will shortly starting a rehab next week
and when done I will start my 5 day sale..

Please Listen I have truly enjoyed everyone and what they have been stating
in the experience with this..

*Lets stay focused on that ok!  "5 Day Sale"*

 Who cares  what you do or how you do it!

What I hope we care about is what happened with your experience on this 5
day sale. So that all of us brand new or even old can learn from each other,
So that we make the best out of this! ok >:O)

I love reading what everyone is putting down! Very Positive..

Have Fun and God Bless!

On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Don Lynch <dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com> wrote:

>  Naji, You HAVE struck a nerve because you don't know what you are talking
> about. The BS is spewing from where you stand. Again, I don't know what your
> problem with realtor's is (full service or otherwise) but I do know you have
> some kind of bone to pick, maybe some kind of envy. I bet you would have no
> trouble calling an agent to glean as much information about a property and
> even have him show it to you, and then turn around and circumvent him/her.
> Did I hit a nerve? Another question...when you are looking for a property to
> buy and you find out it is a FSBO do you automatically in your mind subtract
> 6% from the offer? I'll bet you do.
>
> Signed, an honest hard working (with no conflict of interest, perceived or
> otherwise) realtor
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Naji <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>
> *To:* 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'<5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>   *Sent:* Monday, March 09, 2009 9:21 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker
>
>  Jim,
>
>
>
> Obviously I hit a sensitive nerve with many Realtors on this issue? You and
> I know that in the Realtors world, it?s all about protecting the commission,
> period. So, let?s not fool ourselves with the standard NAR BS and scare
> tactics that?s been circulating for many decades? The big stock brokerage
> firms used to say the same thing about the E-Trade?s and Ameritrade?s of the
> world? where are Bear Stearns and Merrill Lynch today? Same thing was said
> about Wal-Mart, Amazon.com, Google, and many more industry leaders that
> decided to get away from the antiquated business as usual model.
>
>
>
> Regarding conflict of interest? It doesn?t matter how many laws are
> written, or how many disclosures are signed, a conflict of interest
> automatically exists? You don?t get paid unless the house sells? Therefore,
> whether a sale is a good move or a bad move for the buyer or seller, it
> doesn?t matter because you don?t get paid if the sale doesn?t close. I know
> this is difficult to understand, but I think Author Upton Sinclair explains
> it best ?It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his
> salary depends on him not understanding it.?
>
>
>
> Did you read Nine Pillars of the Citadel?
>
>
>
> Every monopoly will eventually be broken? The stranglehold of the NAR will
> as well?. The sooner the average American consumer gets educated the sooner
> this will happen.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> -Naji
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com@
> mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri<5-dayforum-bounces%2Bnkhouri>
> =cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] *On Behalf Of *James
> Fleming
> *Sent:* Monday, March 09, 2009 8:12 PM
> *To:* 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
> *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker
>
>
>
> Thank you Lauri for your posting.  I agree with you that the portrayal of
> doctors and lawyers as professionals who charge simple flat fees is
> incorrect.  Anyone who has ever worked at a law firm or medical facility
> knows better.  Anyone who has ever had serious legal or medical bills knows
> better.
>
>
>
> Furthermore, lawyers and doctors are not paid based on results.  Whether a
> lawyer wins or loses, you pay.  Whether a doctor heals you or not, you pay.
> They get paid handsomely whether they succeed or fail.  It would be
> difficult to design an arrangement more laden with potential conflict of
> interest issues.  If you doubt this, just look at the amount of mal-practice
> and E & O coverage that these professions carry.
>
>
>
> Naji, to emphasize the inequity of a 6% Realtor commission, states that ?If
> a doctor, attorney, plumber, or iron worker was to charge 6% of the average
> American?s largest asset, I would not use them either.?  Sounds compelling
> until you really think about it.  What doctors and lawyers (I?m leaving out
> plumbers and iron workers because, in my opinion, they were included to make
> a point but really have no place in the argument) charge is often several
> times more than 100% of the average Americans largest asset.  Think about
> it.  How many bankruptcies are filed every day by average Americans because
> of medical and/or legal bills?  Actually, it might eliminate a large
> percentage of bankruptcy filings if we could limit our medical/legal bills
> to 6% of our most valuable asset in the event of major health and legal
> issues.  I like it.
>
>
>
> Turning to conflicts of interest, the laws of agency in real estate
> transactions were written largely for the purpose of eliminating conflicts
> of interest.  These laws now apply in every state.  In practice today,
> Realtors either represent sellers or they represent buyers.  The exception
> to this occurs when the Realtor acts as a ?dual agent?.   In instances of
> dual agency, however, the Realtor must act neutrally.  S/he may not advocate
> for either party, but instead must simply conduct that transaction at the
> direction of both being careful not to be pulled into conflicts of interest
> along the way.  If one comes up, it must be disclosed to both parties.
>
>
>
> Naji, however, points to a few examples of conflicts of interest that are
> different from above.  I?d like to address a couple of them.  Naji mentions,
> for example, ?If you?re not charging a FLAT FEE for your services, you
> automatically have a built-in conflict of interest, period!! Just like the
> financial advisor that doesn?t charge a flat fee, the car salesperson, the
> annuity agent, etc??  I would suggest that whether any of these people are
> paid on a commission or on a flat fee basis, their job is to sell you
> products and services.  Your job as the buyer is to make informed
> decisions.  The sales people do not represent you, the buyer, in any of
> these examples.  If Naji?s point is that the sales person will try to sell
> the product or service that pays the most commission, then again, it is up
> to the buyer to sort through this and make an informed decision.
>
>
>
> The advantage in real estate is that you can have an advocate whether you
> are a buyer or a seller.  Seller?s agents manage their listings with the
> goal of pricing them properly and marketing them extensively.  They never
> know what the mix of buyers is at any point in time.  When a buyer comes
> along, they do everything they can to promote the best interests of their
> client ? the seller.  Equally, when a buyer?s agent presents an offer on
> behalf of a client, it is the buyer?s interests that the agent promotes
> above all.  Each of these agents has a fiduciary responsibility to their
> respective client.  This is true whether your Realtor is working for a flat
> fee or for a commission.
>
>
>
> As a practical consideration, many flat fee brokerages are what are called
> ?limited service? brokerages.  In other words, they offer a menu of services
> from which their clients can choose.  Clients only pay for what they get.
> For example, the brokerage may have one fee for listing your property in the
> MLS, another for placing a sign in your yard, another for flyers, another
> for a lockbox, another for advertising online, another for showing your
> property to buyers, another for conducting open houses, yet another for
> negotiating the sale with the buyer?s agent, and so on.  Generally, firms
> with this approach find it hard to stay in business as evidenced by the
> recent (and third) bankruptcy filing of Help-U-Sell.  They tend to appeal to
> uninformed first- time sellers or financially strapped sellers who are
> desperate and don?t know what they don?t know.
>
>
>
> These two groups of sellers typically believe that real estate agents are
> paid too much for the services they provide.  They typically argue their
> point by using hypothetical comparisons. They point to the associated costs
> of sales made with and without full service Realtors.  They either point to
> the increased money that one can make if a Realtor is excluded from the
> equation, or the decreased amount they can get for their house while still
> making the same net amount if they had sold it for more using a Realtor.  In
> the abstract, the same argument can be made for representing yourself in
> court, or doing your own dental fillings.  In the real world, however, ALL
> of life?s issues come into play.  People, who make decisions based upon
> hypothetical or artificial constructs, greatly increase their chances of
> unintended consequences.  Unfortunately, these are often the same people
> who, as kids, had to discover for themselves the perils of touching a hot
> stove.
>
>
>
> Jim Fleming, Realtor and Lecturer
>
> Vancouver, WA
>
>
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* 5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com@
> mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:
> 5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate<5-dayforum-bounces%2Bjamesfleming.realestate>
> =gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] *On Behalf Of *Soak Up
> the Sun
> *Sent:* Monday, March 09, 2009 2:21 PM
> *To:* How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker
>
>
>
> I don't usually have a lot to say on the forums, however, I read all the
> posts.
> I have to say, if you think Doctors and Lawyers charge flat fees, you are
> sorely mistaken.
> I'm glad that you are happy with the flat fee real estate person that you
> are using, and hope that they continue to meet your needs.
> Lauri
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Naji <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>
> *To:* How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days <
> 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, March 9, 2009 11:38:02 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker
>
> Dear PO ?d Realtor,
>
>
>
> I don?t have a problem with ALL Realtors? I have a problem with Realtors
> that charge a commission due to the built-in conflict of interest? I will
> continue to use Realtors that charge a fair FLAT FEE for their services.
>
>
>
> -          Doctors ? No commissions
>
> -          Attorneys ? No commissions
>
> -          Plumbers ? No commissions
>
> -          Iron Workers ? No commissions
>
> -          Etc?
>
>
>
> If a doctor, attorney, plumber, or iron worker was to charge 6% of the
> average American?s largest asset, I would not use them either. As for the
> MLS, the cost associated with using the MLS is minimal for any licensed real
> estate agent, plus you don?t have to be part of NAR or Local Realtor
> Association to have access to MLS? Additionally, gathering all the
> ?information? you are talking about takes minutes online.
>
>
>
> If you?re not charging a FLAT FEE for your services, you automatically have
> a built-in conflict of interest, period!! Just like the financial advisor
> that doesn?t charge a flat fee, the car salesperson, the annuity agent, etc?
>
>
>
> My agent charges a FLAT FEE (Full service agent) of 2,995 regardless of the
> sale price? Which means, that she gets 2,995 for a house that sells for 200K
> or 2Million whether she finds the buyer or another agent finds the buyer?
> Hence, NO CONFLICT OF INTEREST and every home gets the same amount of HARD
> WORK!!
>
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
>
>
> -Naji
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com@
> mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri<5-dayforum-bounces%2Bnkhouri>
> =cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] *On Behalf Of *Don Lynch
> *Sent:* Monday, March 09, 2009 12:16 PM
> *To:* How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker
>
>
>
> I don't know what your problem  is with realtors. Maybe you need to team up
> with Obama and go after doctors, lawyers, plumbers, iron workers, etc. etc.
> If you don't like realtors...DON'T USE THEM! And I don't know where you get
> your figures from because I work my butt off to makeover $50k....it isn't as
> easy as you think. MLS is a proprietary system set up for realtors. If you
> want access to sales  go to the tax records and assemble the info
> yourself...this work and effort is not FREE! Again, if you think realtors
> are ripping you off, don't use them.
>
>
>
> Signed, a hard working honest realtor...
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* Naji <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>
>
> *To:* 5-dayforum at howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>
> *Sent:* Monday, March 09, 2009 12:03 PM
>
> *Subject:* [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker
>
>
>
> Good article regarding the NAR and their monopolistic hold? This was
> written in 2005 and many laws and lawsuits against the NAR have been won
> since then that have changed a few things but much more needs to be done to
> have a fair system:
>
>
>
> http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/public/workshops/rewcom/213351.htm
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>  Donald C. Lynch
> 500 Smokey Hollow Drive
> Waxhaw , NC 28173
> (704) 843-1392 - Office
> (704) 243-3971 - fax
> (407) 257-7845 - cell
> (800) 880-7845
> (704) 843-8325 - home
> dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
> http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>   Donald C. Lynch
> 500 Smokey Hollow Drive
> Waxhaw, NC 28173
> (704) 843-1392 - Office
> (704) 243-3971 - fax
> (407) 257-7845 - cell
> (800) 880-7845
> (704) 843-8325 - home
> dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
> http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>


-- 
Thank You
Tony Falasca
www.TheNBJinsider.com
http://tinyurl.com/6ucgtj
TonyNBJ at Gmail.com
901-653-0313 Cell
901-471-3808 Fax
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From real.estate.professor at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 10 09:18:45 2009
From: real.estate.professor at hotmail.com (Kyle Cascioli)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 08:18:45 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker
In-Reply-To: <2CB989CA9B12466689C589FD5E0C028B@NSKHome>
References: <80D244F41801405CA51CFC6CA4752F36@NSKHome><17DB3D6863FC46918ABC03B6AFA6A494@Main><9631F7563E2E46FDBD0B31464B83A86D@NSKHome><663316.14472.qm@web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com><9735E643D89246ADA470C42B4D484250@jamesfleming><BED67CC8F69342C08B53ACD4CE228990@NSKHome>
	<DD98F4ED8AF64FB7AA5A8D92D488BB67@Main> 
	<2CB989CA9B12466689C589FD5E0C028B@NSKHome>
Message-ID: <BLU122-W1528FC8406AFCA804BDA73B4A10@phx.gbl>


Hi Naji:

 

Just to check in and be sure everyone understands all that Mark Nadel slames NAR for in the "Nine Pillars of the Citadel" is not just about Realtor/Client conflicts.

 

Moreover, it is about how NAR is violating anti-trust legislation against its own members by requiring members to join three NAR affiliated organizations at the national, state, and federal levels (thereby charging higher dues) in order to have access to their local board's MLS database.

 

While I have many of my own issues with NAR ... thanks for bringing this up.

 

Kyle Cascioli

www.AuctionByBuilder.com 
 


From: nkhouri at cfl.rr.com
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 22:01:26 -0400
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker









-          Correction? I know exactly what I?m talking about. Usually a nerve is struck when the truth is told. 
-          No BS here, just facts? Read the Nine Pillars of The Citadel first or a paper by Mark S. Nadel http://aei-brookings.org/admin/authorpdfs/redirect-safely.php?fname=../pdffiles/phpXf.pdf
-          No problem with ALL realtors? Problem with a broken monopolistic model.
-          No bone to pick and No envy
-          I wouldn?t call an agent to show me a property unless they charge a flat fee for their service just as I would only use a financial advisor that only charges a flat fee as well. BTW, I use an agent that simply charges a FLAT FEE for their FULL SERVICE every time I buy an investment property or any other property? Why you may ask? Because they only charge $2,995 and rebate the difference when a commission is offered
-          No, you did not hit a nerve, but thank you for asking
-          Incorrect again? When I decide to purchase a property, it?s purely from an investment point of view... If the price is right and it makes sense financially, then I move forward? It?s doesn?t matter if it?s FSBO, REO, MLS, SS, or any other type it may be.
 
As Upton Sinclair said ?It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on him not understanding it.?
 
-Naji
 
 




From: 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Don Lynch
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 9:33 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker
 

Naji, You HAVE struck a nerve because you don't know what you are talking about. The BS is spewing from where you stand. Again, I don't know what your problem with realtor's is (full service or otherwise) but I do know you have some kind of bone to pick, maybe some kind of envy. I bet you would have no trouble calling an agent to glean as much information about a property and even have him show it to you, and then turn around and circumvent him/her. Did I hit a nerve? Another question...when you are looking for a property to buy and you find out it is a FSBO do you automatically in your mind subtract 6% from the offer? I'll bet you do.

 

Signed, an honest hard working (with no conflict of interest, perceived or otherwise) realtor


----- Original Message ----- 

From: Naji 

To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days' 

Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 9:21 PM

Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 
Jim,
 
Obviously I hit a sensitive nerve with many Realtors on this issue? You and I know that in the Realtors world, it?s all about protecting the commission, period. So, let?s not fool ourselves with the standard NAR BS and scare tactics that?s been circulating for many decades? The big stock brokerage firms used to say the same thing about the E-Trade?s and Ameritrade?s of the world? where are Bear Stearns and Merrill Lynch today? Same thing was said about Wal-Mart, Amazon.com, Google, and many more industry leaders that decided to get away from the antiquated business as usual model. 
 
Regarding conflict of interest? It doesn?t matter how many laws are written, or how many disclosures are signed, a conflict of interest automatically exists? You don?t get paid unless the house sells? Therefore, whether a sale is a good move or a bad move for the buyer or seller, it doesn?t matter because you don?t get paid if the sale doesn?t close. I know this is difficult to understand, but I think Author Upton Sinclair explains it best ?It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on him not understanding it.?
 
Did you read Nine Pillars of the Citadel?
 
Every monopoly will eventually be broken? The stranglehold of the NAR will as well?. The sooner the average American consumer gets educated the sooner this will happen.
 
Best regards,
 
-Naji
 




From: 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of James Fleming
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 8:12 PM
To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker
 
Thank you Lauri for your posting.  I agree with you that the portrayal of doctors and lawyers as professionals who charge simple flat fees is incorrect.  Anyone who has ever worked at a law firm or medical facility knows better.  Anyone who has ever had serious legal or medical bills knows better.  
 
Furthermore, lawyers and doctors are not paid based on results.  Whether a lawyer wins or loses, you pay.  Whether a doctor heals you or not, you pay.  They get paid handsomely whether they succeed or fail.  It would be difficult to design an arrangement more laden with potential conflict of interest issues.  If you doubt this, just look at the amount of mal-practice and E & O coverage that these professions carry.  
 
Naji, to emphasize the inequity of a 6% Realtor commission, states that ?If a doctor, attorney, plumber, or iron worker was to charge 6% of the average American?s largest asset, I would not use them either.?  Sounds compelling until you really think about it.  What doctors and lawyers (I?m leaving out plumbers and iron workers because, in my opinion, they were included to make a point but really have no place in the argument) charge is often several times more than 100% of the average Americans largest asset.  Think about it.  How many bankruptcies are filed every day by average Americans because of medical and/or legal bills?  Actually, it might eliminate a large percentage of bankruptcy filings if we could limit our medical/legal bills to 6% of our most valuable asset in the event of major health and legal issues.  I like it.
 
Turning to conflicts of interest, the laws of agency in real estate transactions were written largely for the purpose of eliminating conflicts of interest.  These laws now apply in every state.  In practice today, Realtors either represent sellers or they represent buyers.  The exception to this occurs when the Realtor acts as a ?dual agent?.   In instances of dual agency, however, the Realtor must act neutrally.  S/he may not advocate for either party, but instead must simply conduct that transaction at the direction of both being careful not to be pulled into conflicts of interest along the way.  If one comes up, it must be disclosed to both parties.
 
Naji, however, points to a few examples of conflicts of interest that are different from above.  I?d like to address a couple of them.  Naji mentions, for example, ?If you?re not charging a FLAT FEE for your services, you automatically have a built-in conflict of interest, period!! Just like the financial advisor that doesn?t charge a flat fee, the car salesperson, the annuity agent, etc??  I would suggest that whether any of these people are paid on a commission or on a flat fee basis, their job is to sell you products and services.  Your job as the buyer is to make informed decisions.  The sales people do not represent you, the buyer, in any of these examples.  If Naji?s point is that the sales person will try to sell the product or service that pays the most commission, then again, it is up to the buyer to sort through this and make an informed decision.
 
The advantage in real estate is that you can have an advocate whether you are a buyer or a seller.  Seller?s agents manage their listings with the goal of pricing them properly and marketing them extensively.  They never know what the mix of buyers is at any point in time.  When a buyer comes along, they do everything they can to promote the best interests of their client ? the seller.  Equally, when a buyer?s agent presents an offer on behalf of a client, it is the buyer?s interests that the agent promotes above all.  Each of these agents has a fiduciary responsibility to their respective client.  This is true whether your Realtor is working for a flat fee or for a commission.
 
As a practical consideration, many flat fee brokerages are what are called ?limited service? brokerages.  In other words, they offer a menu of services from which their clients can choose.  Clients only pay for what they get.  For example, the brokerage may have one fee for listing your property in the MLS, another for placing a sign in your yard, another for flyers, another for a lockbox, another for advertising online, another for showing your property to buyers, another for conducting open houses, yet another for negotiating the sale with the buyer?s agent, and so on.  Generally, firms with this approach find it hard to stay in business as evidenced by the recent (and third) bankruptcy filing of Help-U-Sell.  They tend to appeal to uninformed first- time sellers or financially strapped sellers who are desperate and don?t know what they don?t know.  
 
These two groups of sellers typically believe that real estate agents are paid too much for the services they provide.  They typically argue their point by using hypothetical comparisons. They point to the associated costs of sales made with and without full service Realtors.  They either point to the increased money that one can make if a Realtor is excluded from the equation, or the decreased amount they can get for their house while still making the same net amount if they had sold it for more using a Realtor.  In the abstract, the same argument can be made for representing yourself in court, or doing your own dental fillings.  In the real world, however, ALL of life?s issues come into play.  People, who make decisions based upon hypothetical or artificial constructs, greatly increase their chances of unintended consequences.  Unfortunately, these are often the same people who, as kids, had to discover for themselves the perils of touching a hot stove.
 
Jim Fleming, Realtor and Lecturer
Vancouver, WA
 
 




From: 5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Soak Up the Sun
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 2:21 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker
 


I don't usually have a lot to say on the forums, however, I read all the posts.
I have to say, if you think Doctors and Lawyers charge flat fees, you are sorely mistaken.
I'm glad that you are happy with the flat fee real estate person that you are using, and hope that they continue to meet your needs.
Lauri

 




From: Naji <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 11:38:02 AM
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

Dear PO ?d Realtor,
 
I don?t have a problem with ALL Realtors? I have a problem with Realtors that charge a commission due to the built-in conflict of interest? I will continue to use Realtors that charge a fair FLAT FEE for their services.
 
-          Doctors ? No commissions
-          Attorneys ? No commissions
-          Plumbers ? No commissions
-          Iron Workers ? No commissions
-          Etc?
 
If a doctor, attorney, plumber, or iron worker was to charge 6% of the average American?s largest asset, I would not use them either. As for the MLS, the cost associated with using the MLS is minimal for any licensed real estate agent, plus you don?t have to be part of NAR or Local Realtor Association to have access to MLS? Additionally, gathering all the ?information? you are talking about takes minutes online.
 
If you?re not charging a FLAT FEE for your services, you automatically have a built-in conflict of interest, period!! Just like the financial advisor that doesn?t charge a flat fee, the car salesperson, the annuity agent, etc?
 
My agent charges a FLAT FEE (Full service agent) of 2,995 regardless of the sale price? Which means, that she gets 2,995 for a house that sells for 200K or 2Million whether she finds the buyer or another agent finds the buyer? Hence, NO CONFLICT OF INTEREST and every home gets the same amount of HARD WORK!!
 
Best wishes,
 
-Naji
 
 
 
 




From: 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Don Lynch
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:16 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker
 

I don't know what your problem  is with realtors. Maybe you need to team up with Obama and go after doctors, lawyers, plumbers, iron workers, etc. etc. If you don't like realtors...DON'T USE THEM! And I don't know where you get your figures from because I work my butt off to makeover $50k....it isn't as easy as you think. MLS is a proprietary system set up for realtors. If you want access to sales  go to the tax records and assemble the info yourself...this work and effort is not FREE! Again, if you think realtors are ripping you off, don't use them.

 

Signed, a hard working honest realtor...


----- Original Message ----- 

From: Naji 

To: 5-dayforum at howtosellyourhomein5days.com 

Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:03 PM

Subject: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

 
Good article regarding the NAR and their monopolistic hold? This was written in 2005 and many laws and lawsuits against the NAR have been won since then that have changed a few things but much more needs to be done to have a fair system:
 
http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/public/workshops/rewcom/213351.htm
 
 
 


 
 



_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

Donald C. Lynch
500 Smokey Hollow Drive
Waxhaw , NC 28173
(704) 843-1392 - Office
(704) 243-3971 - fax
(407) 257-7845 - cell
(800) 880-7845
(704) 843-8325 - home
dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/



_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

Donald C. Lynch
500 Smokey Hollow Drive
Waxhaw, NC 28173
(704) 843-1392 - Office
(704) 243-3971 - fax
(407) 257-7845 - cell
(800) 880-7845
(704) 843-8325 - home
dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. 
http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_70faster_032009
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From real.estate.professor at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 10 09:24:45 2009
From: real.estate.professor at hotmail.com (Kyle Cascioli)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 08:24:45 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] Nine Pillars of the Citadel
Message-ID: <BLU122-W108AD8D642610FA8DE95B3B4A10@phx.gbl>


Opps ... that's national, state, and local levels.

 

Kyle Cascioli

www.AuctionBySeller.com  

_________________________________________________________________
Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail?. 
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From merrymcc at gmail.com  Tue Mar 10 10:25:04 2009
From: merrymcc at gmail.com (Merry McConnell)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 10:25:04 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...
In-Reply-To: <49B2E325.9090300@effros.com>
References: <92c4cf3d0903071202y62af8ee8p304fd4c1ea7e62b3@mail.gmail.com>
	<49B2E325.9090300@effros.com>
Message-ID: <92c4cf3d0903100725o254d173dwe174573b168f863f@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Bill,

The sale is over and the highest bid was too low for me to accept.  I kept
my appointment with the lawyer this morning, but on different terms.  I'm
starting the process for bankruptcy and foreclosure...and it does not feel
good.

The sale in itself was a wonderful experience.  We really felt we had at
least six serious bidders, but they all wanted to 'steal' the property
instead of buy it.  We had a total of 69 responses and
about 40 people come through.  There were 16 names on the bidding sheet and
the majority dropped off at the 120,000 mark.

I still appreciate discovering this method for selling, because I've learned
so much through the process.  There's always a possibility that I could have
put a 'by owner' sale sign out front and
attracted people with a different price range in their minds, because even
though I can hear you say over and over that the low bid I received is the
FMV, I feel I attracted people focused on the
109,500 I advertised.  Forgive me!

I've run out of time and I have my friend here with me for one more week.  I
could make a last ditch effort to run another add for this weekend, but if I
do that we wouldn't be able to 'dismantle' my house and move the things
out.

I'm still in disbelief that things didn't work out to at least a reasonable
closeness to the low figure I was willing to accept.  The high bid was
rediculous and I'm not willing to let someone come in on such a low figure
and benefit from my years of hard work and $$$$ worth of improvements.
I'd rather let the bank eat this one.

Thank you again, Bill...really!

Merry






On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:

>  Good going, Merry!
>
> Most of the people who say they're coming back, and say they're going to
> participate, will not.  Don't be discouraged by this, it doesn't matter.
>
> You will only have 1 final buyer, and 2 others will push that buyer up to
> fair market value.  All the rest are just window dressing.
>
> The people you are talking to are real.  You are real.  The process is
> fair.
>
> No matter what the final bid, proceed.
>
> Let the high bidder negotiate with the bank -- just get out of the way, and
> let both the high bidder and the bank know you are getting out of the way
> before they start negotiating with each other.
>
> Others may call after the bidding.  Send them along to the bank, too -- but
> let your high bidder get the first shot at your house.
>
> The price you are offered, even if it is much much lower than you thought
> it would be, is the current fair market value.  If the bank doesn't accept
> that fact, they will get to hold onto that house until they learn.  If they
> do accept it, they will be able to get it, or maybe a little bit more, from
> your high bidder or one of the other bidders.
>
> In any case, you will have determined the fair market value, and sold your
> home within 5 days.
>
> And that's the whole point of this exercise.
>
> Bill Effros
> Author
>
>
>
> Merry McConnell wrote:
>
> A Quick Update!
>
> Phew!
>
> I had 32 calls by Friday night...and this morning (Sat) the phone has been
> ringing non-stop.
> One person offered a cash offer but I knew better!  Thank goodness read the
> book!
> The house is C L E A N and de-cluttered, good smelling and all lights are
> ON!  People LOVE
> it and I can *feel *determination to own from three sets.  Oh yeah...
>
> We (my friend and I) are having a ball...loving talking to people and
> feeling comfortable with the
> entire process.  Everyone says they're going in on the Round Robin - only
> four signed the sheet
> but others are bringing back spouses, etc.
>
> All I know is that people are awe-struck with the place and they all 'want'
> it.
>
> Thank you, Bill for writing this book...no matter how this works out.
>
> I have my appt. with my lawyer for the contract signing on Monday at
> 10am...because I just
> *know *I'll need it!
>
> More Later!
>
> Merry
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.comhttp://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>


-- 
IF YOU THINK YOU CAN OR YOU THINK YOU CAN'T...YOU'RE RIGHT!  Henry Ford
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From dashawn98 at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 10 09:57:55 2009
From: dashawn98 at hotmail.com (Shawn J)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 08:57:55 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] High End Homes
Message-ID: <COL103-W736E8E022D258E10B1CD93A8A10@phx.gbl>


Hi Bill,Just read the book and I have a question.  Would this process work on a 5 million dollar home and if so are there any special changes that have to be made during the process or just follow the exact steps as they are in the book.Thanks,Sean

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live? Hotmail??more than just e-mail. 
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From dashawn98 at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 10 10:06:12 2009
From: dashawn98 at hotmail.com (Shawn J)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 09:06:12 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] High End Homes
Message-ID: <COL103-W819EC07DD6042571617045A8A10@phx.gbl>


Hi Bill,Just read the book and I have a question.  Would this process work on a 5 million dollar home and if so are there any special changes that have to be made during the process or just follow the exact steps as they are in the book.Thanks,Shawn
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. 
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From skyhighplanning at gmail.com  Tue Mar 10 10:59:48 2009
From: skyhighplanning at gmail.com (SKY HIGH)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 10:59:48 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...
In-Reply-To: <92c4cf3d0903100725o254d173dwe174573b168f863f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <92c4cf3d0903071202y62af8ee8p304fd4c1ea7e62b3@mail.gmail.com>
	<49B2E325.9090300@effros.com>
	<92c4cf3d0903100725o254d173dwe174573b168f863f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E713ADEC-B2CC-4AFD-8ABD-F54DC8A123EB@gmail.com>

You should not do BK just for the house.  If it's for other debts then  
it may make more sense.  As far as foreclosure it never makes sense to  
allow bank to foreclose.  If you have no other option then take the  
best offer you received & do a short sale.

Carlos A. Chica
Sky High Planning, Inc.
7380 Sand Lake Rd.  #500
Orlando, FL  32819
Office:  (407) 352-3220
Fax:      (407) 738-4816
Cell:      (646) 552-0107
skyhighplanning at gmail.com

Coming Soon:

www. SKYHIGHPLANNING .com

"It's kind of Fun to do the Impossible"

  -  Walt Disney

On Mar 10, 2009, at 10:25 AM, Merry McConnell <merrymcc at gmail.com>  
wrote:

> Hello Bill,
>
> The sale is over and the highest bid was too low for me to accept.   
> I kept my appointment with the lawyer this morning, but on different  
> terms.  I'm starting the process for bankruptcy and  
> foreclosure...and it does not feel good.
>
> The sale in itself was a wonderful experience.  We really felt we  
> had at least six serious bidders, but they all wanted to 'steal' the  
> property instead of buy it.  We had a total of 69 responses and
> about 40 people come through.  There were 16 names on the bidding  
> sheet and the majority dropped off at the 120,000 mark.
>
> I still appreciate discovering this method for selling, because I've  
> learned so much through the process.  There's always a possibility  
> that I could have put a 'by owner' sale sign out front and
> attracted people with a different price range in their minds,  
> because even though I can hear you say over and over that the low  
> bid I received is the FMV, I feel I attracted people focused on the
> 109,500 I advertised.  Forgive me!
>
> I've run out of time and I have my friend here with me for one more  
> week.  I could make a last ditch effort to run another add for this  
> weekend, but if I do that we wouldn't be able to 'dismantle' my  
> house and move the things out.
>
> I'm still in disbelief that things didn't work out to at least a  
> reasonable closeness to the low figure I was willing to accept.  The  
> high bid was rediculous and I'm not willing to let someone come in  
> on such a low figure and benefit from my years of hard work and $$$$  
> worth of improvements.
> I'd rather let the bank eat this one.
>
> Thank you again, Bill...really!
>
> Merry
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> Good going, Merry!
>
> Most of the people who say they're coming back, and say they're  
> going to participate, will not.  Don't be discouraged by this, it  
> doesn't matter.
>
> You will only have 1 final buyer, and 2 others will push that buyer  
> up to fair market value.  All the rest are just window dressing.
>
> The people you are talking to are real.  You are real.  The process  
> is fair.
>
> No matter what the final bid, proceed.
>
> Let the high bidder negotiate with the bank -- just get out of the  
> way, and let both the high bidder and the bank know you are getting  
> out of the way before they start negotiating with each other.
>
> Others may call after the bidding.  Send them along to the bank, too  
> -- but let your high bidder get the first shot at your house.
>
> The price you are offered, even if it is much much lower than you  
> thought it would be, is the current fair market value.  If the bank  
> doesn't accept that fact, they will get to hold onto that house  
> until they learn.  If they do accept it, they will be able to get  
> it, or maybe a little bit more, from your high bidder or one of the  
> other bidders.
>
> In any case, you will have determined the fair market value, and  
> sold your home within 5 days.
>
> And that's the whole point of this exercise.
>
> Bill Effros
> Author
>
>
>
> Merry McConnell wrote:
>>
>> A Quick Update!
>>
>> Phew!
>>
>> I had 32 calls by Friday night...and this morning (Sat) the phone  
>> has been ringing non-stop.
>> One person offered a cash offer but I knew better!  Thank goodness  
>> read the book!
>> The house is C L E A N and de-cluttered, good smelling and all  
>> lights are ON!  People LOVE
>> it and I can feel determination to own from three sets.  Oh yeah...
>>
>> We (my friend and I) are having a ball...loving talking to people  
>> and feeling comfortable with the
>> entire process.  Everyone says they're going in on the Round Robin  
>> - only four signed the sheet
>> but others are bringing back spouses, etc.
>>
>> All I know is that people are awe-struck with the place and they  
>> all 'want' it.
>>
>> Thank you, Bill for writing this book...no matter how this works out.
>>
>> I have my appt. with my lawyer for the contract signing on Monday  
>> at 10am...because I just
>> know I'll need it!
>>
>> More Later!
>>
>> Merry
>> _______________________________________________
>> 5-DayForum mailing list
>> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> IF YOU THINK YOU CAN OR YOU THINK YOU CAN'T...YOU'RE RIGHT!  Henry  
> Ford
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
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From bill at effros.com  Tue Mar 10 11:23:12 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 11:23:12 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...
In-Reply-To: <92c4cf3d0903100725o254d173dwe174573b168f863f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <92c4cf3d0903071202y62af8ee8p304fd4c1ea7e62b3@mail.gmail.com>	<49B2E325.9090300@effros.com>
	<92c4cf3d0903100725o254d173dwe174573b168f863f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49B685E0.8020203@effros.com>

Merry,

Thanks for getting back to us.

People all over the country are having the same experience you just went 
through -- no one will pay anything near what the owner has in the 
house. And it just gets worse.

There is nothing home-owners can do but let the banks eat the losses.

You clearly did everything you could do, and still you didn't come close 
to the value the bank appraisers told you your home was worth when you 
took your mortgage.

Many, many people are in the same boat, and more discover they are in 
this boat every day.

The only thing that makes sense is for home owners to walk away from 
these homes and mortgages, and that is what I am recommending to all who 
finds themselves in the same same situation you are in.

At some point everyone will realize that ALL mortgages must be re-set to 
reflect current values, and that we will all have to pay for it.  (That 
is already going on in terms of bank bailouts--but the process has not 
fairly reached down to homeowners who would be foolish to continue 
paying outsized mortgages on homes that will not again be worth what 
they paid for a long time.)

At some point inflation will kick in again, and home prices will again 
return to what they were -- but that process could take a decade.  No 
one can say.

In the meantime, go through the bankruptcy with the knowledge that you 
did everything you could to avoid it.  The prices you were offered for 
your home are the most anyone could get at this time, and you know you 
cannot afford to wait for times to change. 

We will all have to rebuild our finances, and I'm sure programs will 
develop to ease the rebuilding for those hardest hit.

Check in with us from time to time to let us know how you are doing.  As 
new resources develop for people with "upside-down" mortgages, we will 
be talking about them, and how they alter the home-selling market.  So 
many people share your dilemma, this country will have to develop 
remedies -- and when they do, you can be sure there will be a lot of 
people on this Forum prepared to vouch for you.

Regards,

Bill Effros
Author

Merry McConnell wrote:
> Hello Bill,
>
> The sale is over and the highest bid was too low for me to accept.  I 
> kept my appointment with the lawyer this morning, but on different 
> terms.  I'm starting the process for bankruptcy and foreclosure...and 
> it does not feel good.
>
> The sale in itself was a wonderful experience.  We really felt we had 
> at least six serious bidders, but they all wanted to 'steal' the 
> property instead of buy it.  We had a total of 69 responses and
> about 40 people come through.  There were 16 names on the bidding 
> sheet and the majority dropped off at the 120,000 mark. 
>
> I still appreciate discovering this method for selling, because I've 
> learned so much through the process.  There's always a possibility 
> that I could have put a 'by owner' sale sign out front and
> attracted people with a different price range in their minds, because 
> even though I can hear you say over and over that the low bid I 
> received is the FMV, I feel I attracted people focused on the
> 109,500 I advertised.  Forgive me! 
>
> I've run out of time and I have my friend here with me for one more 
> week.  I could make a last ditch effort to run another add for this 
> weekend, but if I do that we wouldn't be able to 'dismantle' my house 
> and move the things out. 
>
> I'm still in disbelief that things didn't work out to at least a 
> reasonable closeness to the low figure I was willing to accept.  The 
> high bid was rediculous and I'm not willing to let someone come in on 
> such a low figure and benefit from my years of hard work and $$$$ 
> worth of improvements.
> I'd rather let the bank eat this one.
>
> Thank you again, Bill...really!
>
> Merry
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com 
> <mailto:bill at effros.com>> wrote:
>
>     Good going, Merry!
>
>     Most of the people who say they're coming back, and say they're
>     going to participate, will not.  Don't be discouraged by this, it
>     doesn't matter.
>
>     You will only have 1 final buyer, and 2 others will push that
>     buyer up to fair market value.  All the rest are just window dressing.
>
>     The people you are talking to are real.  You are real.  The
>     process is fair.
>
>     No matter what the final bid, proceed.
>
>     Let the high bidder negotiate with the bank -- just get out of the
>     way, and let both the high bidder and the bank know you are
>     getting out of the way before they start negotiating with each other.
>
>     Others may call after the bidding.  Send them along to the bank,
>     too -- but let your high bidder get the first shot at your house.
>
>     The price you are offered, even if it is much much lower than you
>     thought it would be, is the current fair market value.  If the
>     bank doesn't accept that fact, they will get to hold onto that
>     house until they learn.  If they do accept it, they will be able
>     to get it, or maybe a little bit more, from your high bidder or
>     one of the other bidders.
>
>     In any case, you will have determined the fair market value, and
>     sold your home within 5 days.
>
>     And that's the whole point of this exercise.
>
>     Bill Effros
>     Author
>
>
>
>     Merry McConnell wrote:
>>     A Quick Update!
>>
>>     Phew!
>>
>>     I had 32 calls by Friday night...and this morning (Sat) the phone
>>     has been ringing non-stop.
>>     One person offered a cash offer but I knew better!  Thank
>>     goodness read the book!
>>     The house is C L E A N and de-cluttered, good smelling and all
>>     lights are ON!  People LOVE
>>     it and I can /feel /determination to own from three sets.  Oh yeah...
>>
>>     We (my friend and I) are having a ball...loving talking to people
>>     and feeling comfortable with the
>>     entire process.  Everyone says they're going in on the Round
>>     Robin - only four signed the sheet
>>     but others are bringing back spouses, etc.
>>
>>     All I know is that people are awe-struck with the place and they
>>     all 'want' it. 
>>
>>     Thank you, Bill for writing this book...no matter how this works out.
>>
>>     I have my appt. with my lawyer for the contract signing on Monday
>>     at 10am...because I just
>>     /know /I'll need it!
>>
>>     More Later!
>>
>>     Merry
>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     5-DayForum mailing list
>>     5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>>     http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>       
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     5-DayForum mailing list
>     5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>     <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>     http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> IF YOU THINK YOU CAN OR YOU THINK YOU CAN'T...YOU'RE RIGHT!  Henry Ford
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
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From bill at effros.com  Tue Mar 10 11:34:38 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 11:34:38 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...
In-Reply-To: <E713ADEC-B2CC-4AFD-8ABD-F54DC8A123EB@gmail.com>
References: <92c4cf3d0903071202y62af8ee8p304fd4c1ea7e62b3@mail.gmail.com>	<49B2E325.9090300@effros.com>	<92c4cf3d0903100725o254d173dwe174573b168f863f@mail.gmail.com>
	<E713ADEC-B2CC-4AFD-8ABD-F54DC8A123EB@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49B6888E.9010808@effros.com>

Carlos,

I agree!

Please take a little time to explain to others what you mean.  Many have 
tried to explain in the past, but list membership keeps changing, and 
there is so much in the archives it is daunting for new members to 
figure this out.

Also remember, most list members are not professional sellers.  Most 
sell only a handful of houses in a lifetime, and many have never sold a 
house before.  (You can bet nobody has sold a house before into this 
situation.)

Change the subject line to "Short Sales" so future members can find it 
back.  Be sure to mention there was no such thing as a "short sale" when 
most people bought their homes -- this is a new and expanding field that 
5-Day Sellers are perfectly positioned to explore.

Bill Effros
Author

SKY HIGH wrote:
> You should not do BK just for the house.  If it's for other debts then 
> it may make more sense.  As far as foreclosure it never makes sense to 
> allow bank to foreclose.  If you have no other option then take the 
> best offer you received & do a short sale.
>
> Carlos A. Chica
> Sky High Planning, Inc.
> 7380 Sand Lake Rd.  #500
> Orlando, FL  32819
> Office:  (407) 352-3220
> Fax:      (407) 738-4816
> Cell:      (646) 552-0107
> skyhighplanning at gmail.com <mailto:skyhighplanning at gmail.com>
>
> Coming Soon:
>
> www. SKYHIGHPLANNING .com
>
> "It's kind of Fun to do the Impossible"
>
>  -  Walt Disney
>
> On Mar 10, 2009, at 10:25 AM, Merry McConnell <merrymcc at gmail.com 
> <mailto:merrymcc at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>> Hello Bill,
>>
>> The sale is over and the highest bid was too low for me to accept.  I 
>> kept my appointment with the lawyer this morning, but on different 
>> terms.  I'm starting the process for bankruptcy and foreclosure...and 
>> it does not feel good.
>>
>> The sale in itself was a wonderful experience.  We really felt we had 
>> at least six serious bidders, but they all wanted to 'steal' the 
>> property instead of buy it.  We had a total of 69 responses and
>> about 40 people come through.  There were 16 names on the bidding 
>> sheet and the majority dropped off at the 120,000 mark. 
>>
>> I still appreciate discovering this method for selling, because I've 
>> learned so much through the process.  There's always a possibility 
>> that I could have put a 'by owner' sale sign out front and
>> attracted people with a different price range in their minds, because 
>> even though I can hear you say over and over that the low bid I 
>> received is the FMV, I feel I attracted people focused on the
>> 109,500 I advertised.  Forgive me! 
>>
>> I've run out of time and I have my friend here with me for one more 
>> week.  I could make a last ditch effort to run another add for this 
>> weekend, but if I do that we wouldn't be able to 'dismantle' my house 
>> and move the things out. 
>>
>> I'm still in disbelief that things didn't work out to at least a 
>> reasonable closeness to the low figure I was willing to accept.  The 
>> high bid was rediculous and I'm not willing to let someone come in on 
>> such a low figure and benefit from my years of hard work and $$$$ 
>> worth of improvements.
>> I'd rather let the bank eat this one.
>>
>> Thank you again, Bill...really!
>>
>> Merry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com 
>> <mailto:bill at effros.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     Good going, Merry!
>>
>>     Most of the people who say they're coming back, and say they're
>>     going to participate, will not.  Don't be discouraged by this, it
>>     doesn't matter.
>>
>>     You will only have 1 final buyer, and 2 others will push that
>>     buyer up to fair market value.  All the rest are just window
>>     dressing.
>>
>>     The people you are talking to are real.  You are real.  The
>>     process is fair.
>>
>>     No matter what the final bid, proceed.
>>
>>     Let the high bidder negotiate with the bank -- just get out of
>>     the way, and let both the high bidder and the bank know you are
>>     getting out of the way before they start negotiating with each other.
>>
>>     Others may call after the bidding.  Send them along to the bank,
>>     too -- but let your high bidder get the first shot at your house.
>>
>>     The price you are offered, even if it is much much lower than you
>>     thought it would be, is the current fair market value.  If the
>>     bank doesn't accept that fact, they will get to hold onto that
>>     house until they learn.  If they do accept it, they will be able
>>     to get it, or maybe a little bit more, from your high bidder or
>>     one of the other bidders.
>>
>>     In any case, you will have determined the fair market value, and
>>     sold your home within 5 days.
>>
>>     And that's the whole point of this exercise.
>>
>>     Bill Effros
>>     Author
>>
>>
>>
>>     Merry McConnell wrote:
>>>     A Quick Update!
>>>
>>>     Phew!
>>>
>>>     I had 32 calls by Friday night...and this morning (Sat) the
>>>     phone has been ringing non-stop.
>>>     One person offered a cash offer but I knew better!  Thank
>>>     goodness read the book!
>>>     The house is C L E A N and de-cluttered, good smelling and all
>>>     lights are ON!  People LOVE
>>>     it and I can /feel /determination to own from three sets.  Oh
>>>     yeah...
>>>
>>>     We (my friend and I) are having a ball...loving talking to
>>>     people and feeling comfortable with the
>>>     entire process.  Everyone says they're going in on the Round
>>>     Robin - only four signed the sheet
>>>     but others are bringing back spouses, etc.
>>>
>>>     All I know is that people are awe-struck with the place and they
>>>     all 'want' it. 
>>>
>>>     Thank you, Bill for writing this book...no matter how this works
>>>     out.
>>>
>>>     I have my appt. with my lawyer for the contract signing on
>>>     Monday at 10am...because I just
>>>     /know /I'll need it!
>>>
>>>     More Later!
>>>
>>>     Merry
>>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>     5-DayForum mailing list
>>>     5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>>>     http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>>       
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     5-DayForum mailing list
>>     5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>>     <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>>     http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> IF YOU THINK YOU CAN OR YOU THINK YOU CAN'T...YOU'RE RIGHT!  Henry Ford
>> _______________________________________________
>> 5-DayForum mailing list
>> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
>> <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
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From lili at lilioday.com  Tue Mar 10 11:42:01 2009
From: lili at lilioday.com (O'Day, Lili)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 11:42:01 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...
In-Reply-To: <49B685E0.8020203@effros.com>
Message-ID: <E8687DEB9C959E488879896C3F6D001121698AA0@winxbeus12.exchange.xchg>


Why not do a short sale instead of a foreclosure?  The bank will take less than is currently owed on the property and pay the cost of a Realtor and your attorney costs to do a short sale.  If normally cost the bank about approx $50,000 to foreclose, and they still won't get more than the property is worth (Bill is correct the market is the market after all).  A short sale would have less of a negative impact on your credit report long term than a foreclosure. It's at least worth a try.  If you go this route, make sure that the Realtor that you use has knowledge of the short sale process and knows what they're doing, so as not to waste time..  They need to be able to work well with the asset manager in the loss mitigation department of your bank.

A lot of people are going through this.  It's a real nightmare!  Know all your options before going forward with a forclosure.  Best of luck,

Lili O'Day
Broker Associate  IL &FL


________________________________
From: 5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:23 AM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...

Merry,

Thanks for getting back to us.

People all over the country are having the same experience you just went through -- no one will pay anything near what the owner has in the house. And it just gets worse.

There is nothing home-owners can do but let the banks eat the losses.

You clearly did everything you could do, and still you didn't come close to the value the bank appraisers told you your home was worth when you took your mortgage.

Many, many people are in the same boat, and more discover they are in this boat every day.

The only thing that makes sense is for home owners to walk away from these homes and mortgages, and that is what I am recommending to all who finds themselves in the same same situation you are in.

At some point everyone will realize that ALL mortgages must be re-set to reflect current values, and that we will all have to pay for it.  (That is already going on in terms of bank bailouts--but the process has not fairly reached down to homeowners who would be foolish to continue paying outsized mortgages on homes that will not again be worth what they paid for a long time.)

At some point inflation will kick in again, and home prices will again return to what they were -- but that process could take a decade.  No one can say.

In the meantime, go through the bankruptcy with the knowledge that you did everything you could to avoid it.  The prices you were offered for your home are the most anyone could get at this time, and you know you cannot afford to wait for times to change.

We will all have to rebuild our finances, and I'm sure programs will develop to ease the rebuilding for those hardest hit.

Check in with us from time to time to let us know how you are doing.  As new resources develop for people with "upside-down" mortgages, we will be talking about them, and how they alter the home-selling market.  So many people share your dilemma, this country will have to develop remedies -- and when they do, you can be sure there will be a lot of people on this Forum prepared to vouch for you.

Regards,

Bill Effros
Author

Merry McConnell wrote:
Hello Bill,

The sale is over and the highest bid was too low for me to accept.  I kept my appointment with the lawyer this morning, but on different terms.  I'm starting the process for bankruptcy and foreclosure...and it does not feel good.

The sale in itself was a wonderful experience.  We really felt we had at least six serious bidders, but they all wanted to 'steal' the property instead of buy it.  We had a total of 69 responses and
about 40 people come through.  There were 16 names on the bidding sheet and the majority dropped off at the 120,000 mark.

I still appreciate discovering this method for selling, because I've learned so much through the process.  There's always a possibility that I could have put a 'by owner' sale sign out front and
attracted people with a different price range in their minds, because even though I can hear you say over and over that the low bid I received is the FMV, I feel I attracted people focused on the
109,500 I advertised.  Forgive me!

I've run out of time and I have my friend here with me for one more week.  I could make a last ditch effort to run another add for this weekend, but if I do that we wouldn't be able to 'dismantle' my house and move the things out.

I'm still in disbelief that things didn't work out to at least a reasonable closeness to the low figure I was willing to accept.  The high bid was rediculous and I'm not willing to let someone come in on such a low figure and benefit from my years of hard work and $$$$ worth of improvements.
I'd rather let the bank eat this one.

Thank you again, Bill...really!

Merry






On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com<mailto:bill at effros.com>> wrote:
Good going, Merry!

Most of the people who say they're coming back, and say they're going to participate, will not.  Don't be discouraged by this, it doesn't matter.

You will only have 1 final buyer, and 2 others will push that buyer up to fair market value.  All the rest are just window dressing.

The people you are talking to are real.  You are real.  The process is fair.

No matter what the final bid, proceed.

Let the high bidder negotiate with the bank -- just get out of the way, and let both the high bidder and the bank know you are getting out of the way before they start negotiating with each other.

Others may call after the bidding.  Send them along to the bank, too -- but let your high bidder get the first shot at your house.

The price you are offered, even if it is much much lower than you thought it would be, is the current fair market value.  If the bank doesn't accept that fact, they will get to hold onto that house until they learn.  If they do accept it, they will be able to get it, or maybe a little bit more, from your high bidder or one of the other bidders.

In any case, you will have determined the fair market value, and sold your home within 5 days.

And that's the whole point of this exercise.

Bill Effros
Author



Merry McConnell wrote:
A Quick Update!

Phew!

I had 32 calls by Friday night...and this morning (Sat) the phone has been ringing non-stop.
One person offered a cash offer but I knew better!  Thank goodness read the book!
The house is C L E A N and de-cluttered, good smelling and all lights are ON!  People LOVE
it and I can feel determination to own from three sets.  Oh yeah...

We (my friend and I) are having a ball...loving talking to people and feeling comfortable with the
entire process.  Everyone says they're going in on the Round Robin - only four signed the sheet
but others are bringing back spouses, etc.

All I know is that people are awe-struck with the place and they all 'want' it.

Thank you, Bill for writing this book...no matter how this works out.

I have my appt. with my lawyer for the contract signing on Monday at 10am...because I just
know I'll need it!

More Later!

Merry

________________________________

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--
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From dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com  Tue Mar 10 11:43:56 2009
From: dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com (Don Lynch)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 11:43:56 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...
In-Reply-To: <49B6888E.9010808@effros.com>
References: <92c4cf3d0903071202y62af8ee8p304fd4c1ea7e62b3@mail.gmail.com>	<49B2E325.9090300@effros.com>	<92c4cf3d0903100725o254d173dwe174573b168f863f@mail.gmail.com><E713ADEC-B2CC-4AFD-8ABD-F54DC8A123EB@gmail.com>
	<49B6888E.9010808@effros.com>
Message-ID: <B0E87E2607D546F9AE25896F3354996E@Main>

Bill,

Good advice, as Carlos said a short sale is much less destructive to ones credit.. From what I heard a short sale will lower your FICO by 100 points +/- which can be rebuilt quickly and has no long term lingering effect a bankruptcy has (10 years). 

Don Lynch

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bill Effros 
  To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days 
  Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:34 AM
  Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...


  Carlos,

  I agree!

  Please take a little time to explain to others what you mean.  Many have tried to explain in the past, but list membership keeps changing, and there is so much in the archives it is daunting for new members to figure this out.

  Also remember, most list members are not professional sellers.  Most sell only a handful of houses in a lifetime, and many have never sold a house before.  (You can bet nobody has sold a house before into this situation.)

  Change the subject line to "Short Sales" so future members can find it back.  Be sure to mention there was no such thing as a "short sale" when most people bought their homes -- this is a new and expanding field that 5-Day Sellers are perfectly positioned to explore.

  Bill Effros
  Author

  SKY HIGH wrote: 
    You should not do BK just for the house.  If it's for other debts then it may make more sense.  As far as foreclosure it never makes sense to allow bank to foreclose.  If you have no other option then take the best offer you received & do a short sale.

    Carlos A. Chica 
    Sky High Planning, Inc.
    7380 Sand Lake Rd.  #500
    Orlando, FL  32819
    Office:  (407) 352-3220
    Fax:      (407) 738-4816
    Cell:      (646) 552-0107
    skyhighplanning at gmail.com


    Coming Soon:


    www. SKYHIGHPLANNING .com


    "It's kind of Fun to do the Impossible"


     -  Walt Disney

    On Mar 10, 2009, at 10:25 AM, Merry McConnell <merrymcc at gmail.com> wrote:


      Hello Bill,

      The sale is over and the highest bid was too low for me to accept.  I kept my appointment with the lawyer this morning, but on different terms.  I'm starting the process for bankruptcy and foreclosure...and it does not feel good.

      The sale in itself was a wonderful experience.  We really felt we had at least six serious bidders, but they all wanted to 'steal' the property instead of buy it.  We had a total of 69 responses and
      about 40 people come through.  There were 16 names on the bidding sheet and the majority dropped off at the 120,000 mark.  

      I still appreciate discovering this method for selling, because I've learned so much through the process.  There's always a possibility that I could have put a 'by owner' sale sign out front and 
      attracted people with a different price range in their minds, because even though I can hear you say over and over that the low bid I received is the FMV, I feel I attracted people focused on the
      109,500 I advertised.  Forgive me!  

      I've run out of time and I have my friend here with me for one more week.  I could make a last ditch effort to run another add for this weekend, but if I do that we wouldn't be able to 'dismantle' my house and move the things out.  

      I'm still in disbelief that things didn't work out to at least a reasonable closeness to the low figure I was willing to accept.  The high bid was rediculous and I'm not willing to let someone come in on such a low figure and benefit from my years of hard work and $$$$ worth of improvements.
      I'd rather let the bank eat this one.

      Thank you again, Bill...really!

      Merry







      On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:

        Good going, Merry!

        Most of the people who say they're coming back, and say they're going to participate, will not.  Don't be discouraged by this, it doesn't matter.

        You will only have 1 final buyer, and 2 others will push that buyer up to fair market value.  All the rest are just window dressing.

        The people you are talking to are real.  You are real.  The process is fair.

        No matter what the final bid, proceed.

        Let the high bidder negotiate with the bank -- just get out of the way, and let both the high bidder and the bank know you are getting out of the way before they start negotiating with each other.

        Others may call after the bidding.  Send them along to the bank, too -- but let your high bidder get the first shot at your house.

        The price you are offered, even if it is much much lower than you thought it would be, is the current fair market value.  If the bank doesn't accept that fact, they will get to hold onto that house until they learn.  If they do accept it, they will be able to get it, or maybe a little bit more, from your high bidder or one of the other bidders.

        In any case, you will have determined the fair market value, and sold your home within 5 days.

        And that's the whole point of this exercise.

        Bill Effros
        Author



        Merry McConnell wrote: 
          A Quick Update!

          Phew!

          I had 32 calls by Friday night...and this morning (Sat) the phone has been ringing non-stop.
          One person offered a cash offer but I knew better!  Thank goodness read the book!
          The house is C L E A N and de-cluttered, good smelling and all lights are ON!  People LOVE
          it and I can feel determination to own from three sets.  Oh yeah...

          We (my friend and I) are having a ball...loving talking to people and feeling comfortable with the
          entire process.  Everyone says they're going in on the Round Robin - only four signed the sheet
          but others are bringing back spouses, etc.

          All I know is that people are awe-struck with the place and they all 'want' it.  

          Thank you, Bill for writing this book...no matter how this works out.

          I have my appt. with my lawyer for the contract signing on Monday at 10am...because I just
          know I'll need it!

          More Later!

          Merry

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5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
  
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      -- 
      IF YOU THINK YOU CAN OR YOU THINK YOU CAN'T...YOU'RE RIGHT!  Henry Ford

      _______________________________________________
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Donald C. Lynch
500 Smokey Hollow Drive
Waxhaw, NC 28173
(704) 843-1392 - Office
(704) 243-3971 - fax
(407) 257-7845 - cell
(800) 880-7845
(704) 843-8325 - home
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From bill at effros.com  Tue Mar 10 11:49:31 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 11:49:31 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Short Sale
In-Reply-To: <E8687DEB9C959E488879896C3F6D001121698AA0@winxbeus12.exchange.xchg>
References: <E8687DEB9C959E488879896C3F6D001121698AA0@winxbeus12.exchange.xchg>
Message-ID: <49B68C0B.3020104@effros.com>

Thanks, Lili,

I've changed the subject line so people can find this back in the archives.

Bill Effros
List Administrator

O'Day, Lili wrote:
>  
> Why not do a short sale instead of a foreclosure?  The bank will take 
> less than is currently owed on the property and pay the cost of a 
> Realtor and your attorney costs to do a short sale.  If normally cost 
> the bank about approx $50,000 to foreclose, and they still won't get 
> more than the property is worth (Bill is correct the market is the 
> market after all).  A short sale would have less of a negative impact 
> on your credit report long term than a foreclosure. It's at least 
> worth a try.  If you go this route, make sure that the Realtor that 
> you use has knowledge of the short sale process and knows what they're 
> doing, so as not to waste time..  They need to be able to work well 
> with the asset manager in the loss mitigation department of your bank.
>  
> A lot of people are going through this.  It's a real nightmare!  Know 
> all your options before going forward with a forclosure.  Best of luck,
>  
> Lili O'Day
> Broker Associate  IL &FL
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* 
> 5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] 
> *On Behalf Of *Bill Effros
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:23 AM
> *To:* How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...
>
> Merry,
>
> Thanks for getting back to us.
>
> People all over the country are having the same experience you just 
> went through -- no one will pay anything near what the owner has in 
> the house. And it just gets worse.
>
> There is nothing home-owners can do but let the banks eat the losses.
>
> You clearly did everything you could do, and still you didn't come 
> close to the value the bank appraisers told you your home was worth 
> when you took your mortgage.
>
> Many, many people are in the same boat, and more discover they are in 
> this boat every day.
>
> The only thing that makes sense is for home owners to walk away from 
> these homes and mortgages, and that is what I am recommending to all 
> who finds themselves in the same same situation you are in.
>
> At some point everyone will realize that ALL mortgages must be re-set 
> to reflect current values, and that we will all have to pay for it.  
> (That is already going on in terms of bank bailouts--but the process 
> has not fairly reached down to homeowners who would be foolish to 
> continue paying outsized mortgages on homes that will not again be 
> worth what they paid for a long time.)
>
> At some point inflation will kick in again, and home prices will again 
> return to what they were -- but that process could take a decade.  No 
> one can say.
>
> In the meantime, go through the bankruptcy with the knowledge that you 
> did everything you could to avoid it.  The prices you were offered for 
> your home are the most anyone could get at this time, and you know you 
> cannot afford to wait for times to change. 
>
> We will all have to rebuild our finances, and I'm sure programs will 
> develop to ease the rebuilding for those hardest hit.
>
> Check in with us from time to time to let us know how you are doing.  
> As new resources develop for people with "upside-down" mortgages, we 
> will be talking about them, and how they alter the home-selling 
> market.  So many people share your dilemma, this country will have to 
> develop remedies -- and when they do, you can be sure there will be a 
> lot of people on this Forum prepared to vouch for you.
>
> Regards,
>
> Bill Effros
> Author
>
> Merry McConnell wrote:
>> Hello Bill,
>>
>> The sale is over and the highest bid was too low for me to accept.  I 
>> kept my appointment with the lawyer this morning, but on different 
>> terms.  I'm starting the process for bankruptcy and foreclosure...and 
>> it does not feel good.
>>
>> The sale in itself was a wonderful experience.  We really felt we had 
>> at least six serious bidders, but they all wanted to 'steal' the 
>> property instead of buy it.  We had a total of 69 responses and
>> about 40 people come through.  There were 16 names on the bidding 
>> sheet and the majority dropped off at the 120,000 mark. 
>>
>> I still appreciate discovering this method for selling, because I've 
>> learned so much through the process.  There's always a possibility 
>> that I could have put a 'by owner' sale sign out front and
>> attracted people with a different price range in their minds, because 
>> even though I can hear you say over and over that the low bid I 
>> received is the FMV, I feel I attracted people focused on the
>> 109,500 I advertised.  Forgive me! 
>>
>> I've run out of time and I have my friend here with me for one more 
>> week.  I could make a last ditch effort to run another add for this 
>> weekend, but if I do that we wouldn't be able to 'dismantle' my house 
>> and move the things out. 
>>
>> I'm still in disbelief that things didn't work out to at least a 
>> reasonable closeness to the low figure I was willing to accept.  The 
>> high bid was rediculous and I'm not willing to let someone come in on 
>> such a low figure and benefit from my years of hard work and $$$$ 
>> worth of improvements.
>> I'd rather let the bank eat this one.
>>
>> Thank you again, Bill...really!
>>
>> Merry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com 
>> <mailto:bill at effros.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     Good going, Merry!
>>
>>     Most of the people who say they're coming back, and say they're
>>     going to participate, will not.  Don't be discouraged by this, it
>>     doesn't matter.
>>
>>     You will only have 1 final buyer, and 2 others will push that
>>     buyer up to fair market value.  All the rest are just window
>>     dressing.
>>
>>     The people you are talking to are real.  You are real.  The
>>     process is fair.
>>
>>     No matter what the final bid, proceed.
>>
>>     Let the high bidder negotiate with the bank -- just get out of
>>     the way, and let both the high bidder and the bank know you are
>>     getting out of the way before they start negotiating with each other.
>>
>>     Others may call after the bidding.  Send them along to the bank,
>>     too -- but let your high bidder get the first shot at your house.
>>
>>     The price you are offered, even if it is much much lower than you
>>     thought it would be, is the current fair market value.  If the
>>     bank doesn't accept that fact, they will get to hold onto that
>>     house until they learn.  If they do accept it, they will be able
>>     to get it, or maybe a little bit more, from your high bidder or
>>     one of the other bidders.
>>
>>     In any case, you will have determined the fair market value, and
>>     sold your home within 5 days.
>>
>>     And that's the whole point of this exercise.
>>
>>     Bill Effros
>>     Author
>>
>>
>>
>>     Merry McConnell wrote:
>>>     A Quick Update!
>>>
>>>     Phew!
>>>
>>>     I had 32 calls by Friday night...and this morning (Sat) the
>>>     phone has been ringing non-stop.
>>>     One person offered a cash offer but I knew better!  Thank
>>>     goodness read the book!
>>>     The house is C L E A N and de-cluttered, good smelling and all
>>>     lights are ON!  People LOVE
>>>     it and I can /feel /determination to own from three sets.  Oh
>>>     yeah...
>>>
>>>     We (my friend and I) are having a ball...loving talking to
>>>     people and feeling comfortable with the
>>>     entire process.  Everyone says they're going in on the Round
>>>     Robin - only four signed the sheet
>>>     but others are bringing back spouses, etc.
>>>
>>>     All I know is that people are awe-struck with the place and they
>>>     all 'want' it. 
>>>
>>>     Thank you, Bill for writing this book...no matter how this works
>>>     out.
>>>
>>>     I have my appt. with my lawyer for the contract signing on
>>>     Monday at 10am...because I just
>>>     /know /I'll need it!
>>>
>>>     More Later!
>>>
>>>     Merry
>>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>     5-DayForum mailing list
>>>     5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>>>     http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>>       
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     5-DayForum mailing list
>>     5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>>     <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>>     http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> IF YOU THINK YOU CAN OR YOU THINK YOU CAN'T...YOU'RE RIGHT!  Henry Ford
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> 5-DayForum mailing list
>> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>   
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
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From bill at effros.com  Tue Mar 10 11:51:36 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 11:51:36 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Short Sale was Sale in Progress...
In-Reply-To: <B0E87E2607D546F9AE25896F3354996E@Main>
References: <92c4cf3d0903071202y62af8ee8p304fd4c1ea7e62b3@mail.gmail.com>	<49B2E325.9090300@effros.com>	<92c4cf3d0903100725o254d173dwe174573b168f863f@mail.gmail.com><E713ADEC-B2CC-4AFD-8ABD-F54DC8A123EB@gmail.com>	<49B6888E.9010808@effros.com>
	<B0E87E2607D546F9AE25896F3354996E@Main>
Message-ID: <49B68C88.7030801@effros.com>

Thanks, Don,

Again I've changed the subject line so people can find your comments.

Bill Effros
List Administrator



Don Lynch wrote:
> Bill,
>  
> Good advice, as Carlos said a short sale is much less destructive to 
> ones credit.. From what I heard a short sale will lower your FICO by 
> 100 points +/- which can be rebuilt quickly and has no long term 
> lingering effect a bankruptcy has (10 years).
>  
> Don Lynch
>  
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     *From:* Bill Effros <mailto:bill at effros.com>
>     *To:* How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
>     <mailto:5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>     *Sent:* Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:34 AM
>     *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...
>
>     Carlos,
>
>     I agree!
>
>     Please take a little time to explain to others what you mean. 
>     Many have tried to explain in the past, but list membership keeps
>     changing, and there is so much in the archives it is daunting for
>     new members to figure this out.
>
>     Also remember, most list members are not professional sellers. 
>     Most sell only a handful of houses in a lifetime, and many have
>     never sold a house before.  (You can bet nobody has sold a house
>     before into this situation.)
>
>     Change the subject line to "Short Sales" so future members can
>     find it back.  Be sure to mention there was no such thing as a
>     "short sale" when most people bought their homes -- this is a new
>     and expanding field that 5-Day Sellers are perfectly positioned to
>     explore.
>
>     Bill Effros
>     Author
>
>     SKY HIGH wrote:
>>     You should not do BK just for the house.  If it's for other debts
>>     then it may make more sense.  As far as foreclosure it never
>>     makes sense to allow bank to foreclose.  If you have no other
>>     option then take the best offer you received & do a short sale.
>>
>>     Carlos A. Chica
>>     Sky High Planning, Inc.
>>     7380 Sand Lake Rd.  #500
>>     Orlando, FL  32819
>>     Office:  (407) 352-3220
>>     Fax:      (407) 738-4816
>>     Cell:      (646) 552-0107
>>     skyhighplanning at gmail.com <mailto:skyhighplanning at gmail.com>
>>
>>     Coming Soon:
>>
>>     www. SKYHIGHPLANNING .com
>>
>>     "It's kind of Fun to do the Impossible"
>>
>>      -  Walt Disney
>>
>>     On Mar 10, 2009, at 10:25 AM, Merry McConnell <merrymcc at gmail.com
>>     <mailto:merrymcc at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>>     Hello Bill,
>>>
>>>     The sale is over and the highest bid was too low for me to
>>>     accept.  I kept my appointment with the lawyer this morning, but
>>>     on different terms.  I'm starting the process for bankruptcy and
>>>     foreclosure...and it does not feel good.
>>>
>>>     The sale in itself was a wonderful experience.  We really felt
>>>     we had at least six serious bidders, but they all wanted to
>>>     'steal' the property instead of buy it.  We had a total of 69
>>>     responses and
>>>     about 40 people come through.  There were 16 names on the
>>>     bidding sheet and the majority dropped off at the 120,000 mark. 
>>>
>>>     I still appreciate discovering this method for selling, because
>>>     I've learned so much through the process.  There's always a
>>>     possibility that I could have put a 'by owner' sale sign out
>>>     front and
>>>     attracted people with a different price range in their minds,
>>>     because even though I can hear you say over and over that the
>>>     low bid I received is the FMV, I feel I attracted people focused
>>>     on the
>>>     109,500 I advertised.  Forgive me! 
>>>
>>>     I've run out of time and I have my friend here with me for one
>>>     more week.  I could make a last ditch effort to run another add
>>>     for this weekend, but if I do that we wouldn't be able to
>>>     'dismantle' my house and move the things out. 
>>>
>>>     I'm still in disbelief that things didn't work out to at least a
>>>     reasonable closeness to the low figure I was willing to accept. 
>>>     The high bid was rediculous and I'm not willing to let someone
>>>     come in on such a low figure and benefit from my years of hard
>>>     work and $$$$ worth of improvements.
>>>     I'd rather let the bank eat this one.
>>>
>>>     Thank you again, Bill...really!
>>>
>>>     Merry
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com
>>>     <mailto:bill at effros.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>         Good going, Merry!
>>>
>>>         Most of the people who say they're coming back, and say
>>>         they're going to participate, will not.  Don't be
>>>         discouraged by this, it doesn't matter.
>>>
>>>         You will only have 1 final buyer, and 2 others will push
>>>         that buyer up to fair market value.  All the rest are just
>>>         window dressing.
>>>
>>>         The people you are talking to are real.  You are real.  The
>>>         process is fair.
>>>
>>>         No matter what the final bid, proceed.
>>>
>>>         Let the high bidder negotiate with the bank -- just get out
>>>         of the way, and let both the high bidder and the bank know
>>>         you are getting out of the way before they start negotiating
>>>         with each other.
>>>
>>>         Others may call after the bidding.  Send them along to the
>>>         bank, too -- but let your high bidder get the first shot at
>>>         your house.
>>>
>>>         The price you are offered, even if it is much much lower
>>>         than you thought it would be, is the current fair market
>>>         value.  If the bank doesn't accept that fact, they will get
>>>         to hold onto that house until they learn.  If they do accept
>>>         it, they will be able to get it, or maybe a little bit more,
>>>         from your high bidder or one of the other bidders.
>>>
>>>         In any case, you will have determined the fair market value,
>>>         and sold your home within 5 days.
>>>
>>>         And that's the whole point of this exercise.
>>>
>>>         Bill Effros
>>>         Author
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>         Merry McConnell wrote:
>>>>         A Quick Update!
>>>>
>>>>         Phew!
>>>>
>>>>         I had 32 calls by Friday night...and this morning (Sat) the
>>>>         phone has been ringing non-stop.
>>>>         One person offered a cash offer but I knew better!  Thank
>>>>         goodness read the book!
>>>>         The house is C L E A N and de-cluttered, good smelling and
>>>>         all lights are ON!  People LOVE
>>>>         it and I can /feel /determination to own from three sets. 
>>>>         Oh yeah...
>>>>
>>>>         We (my friend and I) are having a ball...loving talking to
>>>>         people and feeling comfortable with the
>>>>         entire process.  Everyone says they're going in on the
>>>>         Round Robin - only four signed the sheet
>>>>         but others are bringing back spouses, etc.
>>>>
>>>>         All I know is that people are awe-struck with the place and
>>>>         they all 'want' it. 
>>>>
>>>>         Thank you, Bill for writing this book...no matter how this
>>>>         works out.
>>>>
>>>>         I have my appt. with my lawyer for the contract signing on
>>>>         Monday at 10am...because I just
>>>>         /know /I'll need it!
>>>>
>>>>         More Later!
>>>>
>>>>         Merry
>>>>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>>         5-DayForum mailing list
>>>>         5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>>>>         http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>>>           
>>>
>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>         5-DayForum mailing list
>>>         5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>>>         <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>>>         http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     -- 
>>>     IF YOU THINK YOU CAN OR YOU THINK YOU CAN'T...YOU'RE RIGHT!
>>>      Henry Ford
>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>     5-DayForum mailing list
>>>     5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>>>     <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>>>     http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     5-DayForum mailing list
>>     5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>>     http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>       
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     _______________________________________________
>     5-DayForum mailing list
>     5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>     http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
> Donald C. Lynch
> 500 Smokey Hollow Drive
> Waxhaw, NC 28173
> (704) 843-1392 - Office
> (704) 243-3971 - fax
> (407) 257-7845 - cell
> (800) 880-7845
> (704) 843-8325 - home
> dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com <mailto:dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com>
> http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
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From scott.dunn at lmsofjax.com  Tue Mar 10 11:15:06 2009
From: scott.dunn at lmsofjax.com (Scott Dunn)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 11:15:06 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...
In-Reply-To: <92c4cf3d0903100725o254d173dwe174573b168f863f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <92c4cf3d0903071202y62af8ee8p304fd4c1ea7e62b3@mail.gmail.com>	<49B2E325.9090300@effros.com>
	<92c4cf3d0903100725o254d173dwe174573b168f863f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00eb01c9a192$ff1122a0$fd3367e0$@dunn@lmsofjax.com>

Merry,

 

Sorry to hear that your 5-day sale did not pan out for you. Before you
follow through with the Bankruptcy though have you sorted through all
available options? If you are in foreclosure and can't hang on to the
property a short sale is definitely your best option. A foreclosure will
keep you from getting another Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac loan for 5-7 years &
a BK will stay with you for 10 years, not to mention the BK will not stop a
foreclosure it will only delay it. Once the BK is dismissed or released the
foreclosure process picks back up and you will still have that on your
credit report. Make sure you are aware of all your options! Feel free to
contact me direct if you have any questions. Good Luck,  Scott

 

Scott A Dunn

Loss Mitigation Solutions of Jacksonville, LLC

10752 Deerwood Park Blv. S

Suite 100-169

Jacksonville, Fl. 32256

Office (904) 394 - 2890

Cell   (904) 563 - 4478

Fax    (904) 394 -2893

scott.dunn at lmsofjax.com

www.lmsofjax.com

 

 

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+scott.dunn=lmsofjax.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.
com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+scott.dunn=lmsofjax.com at mailman.howtosellyourhome
in5days.com] On Behalf Of Merry McConnell
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:25 AM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...

 

Hello Bill,

The sale is over and the highest bid was too low for me to accept.  I kept
my appointment with the lawyer this morning, but on different terms.  I'm
starting the process for bankruptcy and foreclosure...and it does not feel
good.

The sale in itself was a wonderful experience.  We really felt we had at
least six serious bidders, but they all wanted to 'steal' the property
instead of buy it.  We had a total of 69 responses and
about 40 people come through.  There were 16 names on the bidding sheet and
the majority dropped off at the 120,000 mark.  

I still appreciate discovering this method for selling, because I've learned
so much through the process.  There's always a possibility that I could have
put a 'by owner' sale sign out front and 
attracted people with a different price range in their minds, because even
though I can hear you say over and over that the low bid I received is the
FMV, I feel I attracted people focused on the
109,500 I advertised.  Forgive me!  

I've run out of time and I have my friend here with me for one more week.  I
could make a last ditch effort to run another add for this weekend, but if I
do that we wouldn't be able to 'dismantle' my house and move the things out.


I'm still in disbelief that things didn't work out to at least a reasonable
closeness to the low figure I was willing to accept.  The high bid was
rediculous and I'm not willing to let someone come in on such a low figure
and benefit from my years of hard work and $$$$ worth of improvements.
I'd rather let the bank eat this one.

Thank you again, Bill...really!

Merry







On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:

Good going, Merry!

Most of the people who say they're coming back, and say they're going to
participate, will not.  Don't be discouraged by this, it doesn't matter.

You will only have 1 final buyer, and 2 others will push that buyer up to
fair market value.  All the rest are just window dressing.

The people you are talking to are real.  You are real.  The process is fair.

No matter what the final bid, proceed.

Let the high bidder negotiate with the bank -- just get out of the way, and
let both the high bidder and the bank know you are getting out of the way
before they start negotiating with each other.

Others may call after the bidding.  Send them along to the bank, too -- but
let your high bidder get the first shot at your house.

The price you are offered, even if it is much much lower than you thought it
would be, is the current fair market value.  If the bank doesn't accept that
fact, they will get to hold onto that house until they learn.  If they do
accept it, they will be able to get it, or maybe a little bit more, from
your high bidder or one of the other bidders.

In any case, you will have determined the fair market value, and sold your
home within 5 days.

And that's the whole point of this exercise.

Bill Effros
Author



Merry McConnell wrote: 

A Quick Update!

Phew!

I had 32 calls by Friday night...and this morning (Sat) the phone has been
ringing non-stop.
One person offered a cash offer but I knew better!  Thank goodness read the
book!
The house is C L E A N and de-cluttered, good smelling and all lights are
ON!  People LOVE
it and I can feel determination to own from three sets.  Oh yeah...

We (my friend and I) are having a ball...loving talking to people and
feeling comfortable with the
entire process.  Everyone says they're going in on the Round Robin - only
four signed the sheet
but others are bringing back spouses, etc.

All I know is that people are awe-struck with the place and they all 'want'
it.  

Thank you, Bill for writing this book...no matter how this works out.

I have my appt. with my lawyer for the contract signing on Monday at
10am...because I just
know I'll need it!

More Later!

Merry




  _____  



 
_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
  


_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum




-- 
IF YOU THINK YOU CAN OR YOU THINK YOU CAN'T...YOU'RE RIGHT!  Henry Ford

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From nkhouri at cfl.rr.com  Tue Mar 10 11:58:43 2009
From: nkhouri at cfl.rr.com (Naji)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 11:58:43 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Short Sales/Other Options
In-Reply-To: <49B6888E.9010808@effros.com>
References: <92c4cf3d0903071202y62af8ee8p304fd4c1ea7e62b3@mail.gmail.com>	<49B2E325.9090300@effros.com>	<92c4cf3d0903100725o254d173dwe174573b168f863f@mail.gmail.com><E713ADEC-B2CC-4AFD-8ABD-F54DC8A123EB@gmail.com>
	<49B6888E.9010808@effros.com>
Message-ID: <3C619E1F68094CBC89F5F31CFCC6A0FB@NSKHome>

Anyone that purchased a home or refinanced (and tapped their equity) in the
last 5 years or so in many parts of the country (if not all of the country)
is upside down on their mortgage, i.e house worth less than what's owed on
it, or are falling behind on payments:

 

So what are the options if you're in that situation:

 

1.	Reinstatement - Determine the amount owed necessary to bring loan
current.

*	This just prolongs the inevitable. If the house is worth much less,
especially in hard hit areas, expect to stay put for many many years before
you break even. So, you may find yourself in the same situation a few month
or years from now

2.	Forbearance - Set up a payment plan to bring the loan current.

*	Another option that's not really going to work. If someone cannot
pay now, how will he be able to become current with more payments.

3.	Modification - Adjust the loan terms (interest rate, payment and
length). 

*	Loan modification only benefits the banks at this point. They just
tack it on to the back end of the mortgage.
*	This will only work if banks actually reduce the principal to match
current value. Unfortunately, less than 1% of loan modifications result in
principal reductions.

4.	Deed-in-lieu - Give the property back to the lender.

*	Works if the lender agrees to it and there aren't 2nd, 3rd, etc
liens 

5.	Walk Away - Leave the property in the most beneficial way possible.

*	Stay as long as you can in the home - You can stay at least 8 months
before it goes to the bank and in states like Florida, expect to stay almost
2 years.
*	Don't pay the mortgage, but instead save it all so you can rebuild
your life
*	When it's judgment time, find a place to rent and plan on renting
for a while
*	You could also offload your property to someone as well

6.	Short Sale - List the property for less than the amount owed.

*	You can negotiate a short sale with your bank. You can do it
yourself or hire someone to do it on you behalf. It's really not that
difficult, all it takes is communicating with your lender
*	Many banks are getting easier to work with while others are still in
dreamville
*	Expect this to take months due to the bank backlogs. Also, some
banks want to see the property on the market for at least 90 days before
agreeing to anything. Then they do their own BPO (which is still out of
whack) and wait like everyone else thinking they can get all their money
back.

7.	Refinance - Obtain a new loan to replace the current loan(s).

*	Will not work unless you're going to bring a big chunk of change to
the table. 

8.	Excess Proceeds- Collecting excess money from the auction/sale of
the property.

*	Wait until the property goes to the auction block and if there's any
money left after the 1st Lien holder is paid, you may get something back.
Doubtful in many cases since all the homes going back are worth less than
the mortgage

9.	Postponements - Delay the auction/sale date of the property.

*	Delay the public auction of the property while you try to figure
something out
*	This will only buy you time and you'll still have to face the music
later

10.	Stay In Your Home - Continue living in your current home. 

*	If you can afford the payments and are willing to stick it out for
10 years or more, then just stay put

 

-Naji

 

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:35 AM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...

 

Carlos,

I agree!

Please take a little time to explain to others what you mean.  Many have
tried to explain in the past, but list membership keeps changing, and there
is so much in the archives it is daunting for new members to figure this
out.

Also remember, most list members are not professional sellers.  Most sell
only a handful of houses in a lifetime, and many have never sold a house
before.  (You can bet nobody has sold a house before into this situation.)

Change the subject line to "Short Sales" so future members can find it back.
Be sure to mention there was no such thing as a "short sale" when most
people bought their homes -- this is a new and expanding field that 5-Day
Sellers are perfectly positioned to explore.

Bill Effros
Author

SKY HIGH wrote: 

You should not do BK just for the house.  If it's for other debts then it
may make more sense.  As far as foreclosure it never makes sense to allow
bank to foreclose.  If you have no other option then take the best offer you
received & do a short sale.

Carlos A. Chica 

Sky High Planning, Inc.

7380 Sand Lake Rd.  #500

Orlando, FL  32819

Office:  (407) 352-3220

Fax:      (407) 738-4816

Cell:      (646) 552-0107

skyhighplanning at gmail.com

 

Coming Soon:

 

www. SKYHIGHPLANNING .com

 

"It's kind of Fun to do the Impossible"

 

 -  Walt Disney


On Mar 10, 2009, at 10:25 AM, Merry McConnell <merrymcc at gmail.com> wrote:

Hello Bill,

The sale is over and the highest bid was too low for me to accept.  I kept
my appointment with the lawyer this morning, but on different terms.  I'm
starting the process for bankruptcy and foreclosure...and it does not feel
good.

The sale in itself was a wonderful experience.  We really felt we had at
least six serious bidders, but they all wanted to 'steal' the property
instead of buy it.  We had a total of 69 responses and
about 40 people come through.  There were 16 names on the bidding sheet and
the majority dropped off at the 120,000 mark.  

I still appreciate discovering this method for selling, because I've learned
so much through the process.  There's always a possibility that I could have
put a 'by owner' sale sign out front and 
attracted people with a different price range in their minds, because even
though I can hear you say over and over that the low bid I received is the
FMV, I feel I attracted people focused on the
109,500 I advertised.  Forgive me!  

I've run out of time and I have my friend here with me for one more week.  I
could make a last ditch effort to run another add for this weekend, but if I
do that we wouldn't be able to 'dismantle' my house and move the things out.


I'm still in disbelief that things didn't work out to at least a reasonable
closeness to the low figure I was willing to accept.  The high bid was
rediculous and I'm not willing to let someone come in on such a low figure
and benefit from my years of hard work and $$$$ worth of improvements.
I'd rather let the bank eat this one.

Thank you again, Bill...really!

Merry







On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:

Good going, Merry!

Most of the people who say they're coming back, and say they're going to
participate, will not.  Don't be discouraged by this, it doesn't matter.

You will only have 1 final buyer, and 2 others will push that buyer up to
fair market value.  All the rest are just window dressing.

The people you are talking to are real.  You are real.  The process is fair.

No matter what the final bid, proceed.

Let the high bidder negotiate with the bank -- just get out of the way, and
let both the high bidder and the bank know you are getting out of the way
before they start negotiating with each other.

Others may call after the bidding.  Send them along to the bank, too -- but
let your high bidder get the first shot at your house.

The price you are offered, even if it is much much lower than you thought it
would be, is the current fair market value.  If the bank doesn't accept that
fact, they will get to hold onto that house until they learn.  If they do
accept it, they will be able to get it, or maybe a little bit more, from
your high bidder or one of the other bidders.

In any case, you will have determined the fair market value, and sold your
home within 5 days.

And that's the whole point of this exercise.

Bill Effros
Author



Merry McConnell wrote: 

A Quick Update!

Phew!

I had 32 calls by Friday night...and this morning (Sat) the phone has been
ringing non-stop.
One person offered a cash offer but I knew better!  Thank goodness read the
book!
The house is C L E A N and de-cluttered, good smelling and all lights are
ON!  People LOVE
it and I can feel determination to own from three sets.  Oh yeah...

We (my friend and I) are having a ball...loving talking to people and
feeling comfortable with the
entire process.  Everyone says they're going in on the Round Robin - only
four signed the sheet
but others are bringing back spouses, etc.

All I know is that people are awe-struck with the place and they all 'want'
it.  

Thank you, Bill for writing this book...no matter how this works out.

I have my appt. with my lawyer for the contract signing on Monday at
10am...because I just
know I'll need it!

More Later!

Merry






  _____  



_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
  


_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum




-- 
IF YOU THINK YOU CAN OR YOU THINK YOU CAN'T...YOU'RE RIGHT!  Henry Ford

_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

 





  _____  



 
_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
  
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From bill at effros.com  Tue Mar 10 12:00:03 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 12:00:03 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Short Sale was Sale in Progress...
In-Reply-To: <00eb01c9a192$ff1122a0$fd3367e0$@dunn@lmsofjax.com>
References: <92c4cf3d0903071202y62af8ee8p304fd4c1ea7e62b3@mail.gmail.com>	<49B2E325.9090300@effros.com>	<92c4cf3d0903100725o254d173dwe174573b168f863f@mail.gmail.com>
	<00eb01c9a192$ff1122a0$fd3367e0$@dunn@lmsofjax.com>
Message-ID: <49B68E83.20309@effros.com>

Thanks, Scott,

I've changed your subject heading also for the same reason.

There are literally hundreds of people on this Forum who only read and 
never post, including many in your area.

Please feel free to continue posting specific information while clearly 
identifying yourself for those who might want to take advantage of your 
professional help.  That is really what this Forum is for.

Bill Effros
List Administrator

PS -- That goes for others, too.  If you're putting something in, you 
have every right to get something back...



Scott Dunn wrote:
>
> Merry,
>
>  
>
> Sorry to hear that your 5-day sale did not pan out for you. Before you 
> follow through with the Bankruptcy though have you sorted through all 
> available options? If you are in foreclosure and can't hang on to the 
> property a short sale is definitely your best option. A foreclosure 
> will keep you from getting another Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac loan for 
> 5-7 years & a BK will stay with you for 10 years, not to mention the 
> BK will not stop a foreclosure it will only delay it. Once the BK is 
> dismissed or released the foreclosure process picks back up and you 
> will still have that on your credit report. Make sure you are aware of 
> all your options! Feel free to contact me direct if you have any 
> questions. Good Luck,  Scott
>
>  
>
> Scott A Dunn
>
> Loss Mitigation Solutions of Jacksonville, LLC
>
> 10752 Deerwood Park Blv. S
>
> Suite 100-169
>
> Jacksonville, Fl. 32256
>
> Office (904) 394 - 2890
>
> Cell   (904) 563 - 4478
>
> Fax    (904) 394 -2893
>
> scott.dunn at lmsofjax.com <mailto:scott.dunn at lmsofjax.com>
>
> www.lmsofjax.com <http://www.lmsofjax.com>
>
>  
>
>  
>
> *From:* 
> 5-dayforum-bounces+scott.dunn=lmsofjax.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+scott.dunn=lmsofjax.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] 
> *On Behalf Of *Merry McConnell
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:25 AM
> *To:* How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...
>
>  
>
> Hello Bill,
>
> The sale is over and the highest bid was too low for me to accept.  I 
> kept my appointment with the lawyer this morning, but on different 
> terms.  I'm starting the process for bankruptcy and foreclosure...and 
> it does not feel good.
>
> The sale in itself was a wonderful experience.  We really felt we had 
> at least six serious bidders, but they all wanted to 'steal' the 
> property instead of buy it.  We had a total of 69 responses and
> about 40 people come through.  There were 16 names on the bidding 
> sheet and the majority dropped off at the 120,000 mark. 
>
> I still appreciate discovering this method for selling, because I've 
> learned so much through the process.  There's always a possibility 
> that I could have put a 'by owner' sale sign out front and
> attracted people with a different price range in their minds, because 
> even though I can hear you say over and over that the low bid I 
> received is the FMV, I feel I attracted people focused on the
> 109,500 I advertised.  Forgive me! 
>
> I've run out of time and I have my friend here with me for one more 
> week.  I could make a last ditch effort to run another add for this 
> weekend, but if I do that we wouldn't be able to 'dismantle' my house 
> and move the things out. 
>
> I'm still in disbelief that things didn't work out to at least a 
> reasonable closeness to the low figure I was willing to accept.  The 
> high bid was rediculous and I'm not willing to let someone come in on 
> such a low figure and benefit from my years of hard work and $$$$ 
> worth of improvements.
> I'd rather let the bank eat this one.
>
> Thank you again, Bill...really!
>
> Merry
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com 
> <mailto:bill at effros.com>> wrote:
>
> Good going, Merry!
>
> Most of the people who say they're coming back, and say they're going 
> to participate, will not.  Don't be discouraged by this, it doesn't 
> matter.
>
> You will only have 1 final buyer, and 2 others will push that buyer up 
> to fair market value.  All the rest are just window dressing.
>
> The people you are talking to are real.  You are real.  The process is 
> fair.
>
> No matter what the final bid, proceed.
>
> Let the high bidder negotiate with the bank -- just get out of the 
> way, and let both the high bidder and the bank know you are getting 
> out of the way before they start negotiating with each other.
>
> Others may call after the bidding.  Send them along to the bank, too 
> -- but let your high bidder get the first shot at your house.
>
> The price you are offered, even if it is much much lower than you 
> thought it would be, is the current fair market value.  If the bank 
> doesn't accept that fact, they will get to hold onto that house until 
> they learn.  If they do accept it, they will be able to get it, or 
> maybe a little bit more, from your high bidder or one of the other 
> bidders.
>
> In any case, you will have determined the fair market value, and sold 
> your home within 5 days.
>
> And that's the whole point of this exercise.
>
> Bill Effros
> Author
>
>
>
> Merry McConnell wrote:
>
> A Quick Update!
>
> Phew!
>
> I had 32 calls by Friday night...and this morning (Sat) the phone has 
> been ringing non-stop.
> One person offered a cash offer but I knew better!  Thank goodness 
> read the book!
> The house is C L E A N and de-cluttered, good smelling and all lights 
> are ON!  People LOVE
> it and I can /feel /determination to own from three sets.  Oh yeah...
>
> We (my friend and I) are having a ball...loving talking to people and 
> feeling comfortable with the
> entire process.  Everyone says they're going in on the Round Robin - 
> only four signed the sheet
> but others are bringing back spouses, etc.
>
> All I know is that people are awe-struck with the place and they all 
> 'want' it. 
>
> Thank you, Bill for writing this book...no matter how this works out.
>
> I have my appt. with my lawyer for the contract signing on Monday at 
> 10am...because I just
> /know /I'll need it!
>
> More Later!
>
> Merry
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>   
>  
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> IF YOU THINK YOU CAN OR YOU THINK YOU CAN'T...YOU'RE RIGHT!  Henry Ford
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
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From bill at effros.com  Tue Mar 10 12:07:25 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 12:07:25 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Short Sales/Other Options
In-Reply-To: <3C619E1F68094CBC89F5F31CFCC6A0FB@NSKHome>
References: <92c4cf3d0903071202y62af8ee8p304fd4c1ea7e62b3@mail.gmail.com>	<49B2E325.9090300@effros.com>	<92c4cf3d0903100725o254d173dwe174573b168f863f@mail.gmail.com><E713ADEC-B2CC-4AFD-8ABD-F54DC8A123EB@gmail.com>	<49B6888E.9010808@effros.com>
	<3C619E1F68094CBC89F5F31CFCC6A0FB@NSKHome>
Message-ID: <49B6903D.4050000@effros.com>

Thank you, Thank you Naji!

With your permission I will repost this email from time to time, and you 
should feel free to do the same.

After I've posted this a few times I'll probably forget I didn't write 
it, and I'll include it in the 4th Edition of the Book.  Remind me to 
credit you.

Things like this are SO helpful.

Anyone who doesn't understand what Naji and others previously cited are 
talking about should ask, either back channel, or on the Forum.  This is 
what the current market is about, and everyone is going to have to learn 
how to deal with it.

Bill Effros
Author



Naji wrote:
>
> Anyone that purchased a home or refinanced (and tapped their equity) 
> in the last 5 years or so in many parts of the country (if not all of 
> the country) is upside down on their mortgage, i.e house worth less 
> than what's owed on it, or are falling behind on payments:
>
>  
>
> So what are the options if you're in that situation:
>
>  
>
>          1. Reinstatement - Determine the amount owed necessary to
>             bring loan current.
>                 o This just prolongs the inevitable... If the house is
>                   worth much less, especially in hard hit areas,
>                   expect to stay put for many many years before you
>                   break even. So, you may find yourself in the same
>                   situation a few month or years from now
>          2. Forbearance - Set up a payment plan to bring the loan current.
>                 o Another option that's not really going to work... If
>                   someone cannot pay now, how will he be able to
>                   become current with more payments.
>          3. Modification - Adjust the loan terms (interest rate,
>             payment and length).
>                 o Loan modification only benefits the banks at this
>                   point... They just tack it on to the back end of the
>                   mortgage.
>                 o This will only work if banks actually reduce the
>                   principal to match current value. Unfortunately,
>                   less than 1% of loan modifications result in
>                   principal reductions.
>          4. Deed-in-lieu - Give the property back to the lender.
>                 o Works if the lender agrees to it and there aren't
>                   2^nd , 3^rd , etc liens
>          5. Walk Away - Leave the property in the most beneficial way
>             possible.
>                 o Stay as long as you can in the home -- You can stay
>                   at least 8 months before it goes to the bank and in
>                   states like Florida, expect to stay almost 2 years.
>                 o Don't pay the mortgage, but instead save it all so
>                   you can rebuild your life
>                 o When it's judgment time, find a place to rent and
>                   plan on renting for a while
>                 o You could also offload your property to someone as well
>          6. Short Sale - List the property for less than the amount owed.
>                 o You can negotiate a short sale with your bank... You
>                   can do it yourself or hire someone to do it on you
>                   behalf. It's really not that difficult, all it takes
>                   is communicating with your lender
>                 o Many banks are getting easier to work with while
>                   others are still in dreamville
>                 o Expect this to take months due to the bank backlogs.
>                   Also, some banks want to see the property on the
>                   market for at least 90 days before agreeing to
>                   anything. Then they do their own BPO (which is still
>                   out of whack) and wait like everyone else thinking
>                   they can get all their money back...
>          7. Refinance - Obtain a new loan to replace the current loan(s).
>                 o Will not work unless you're going to bring a big
>                   chunk of change to the table.
>          8. Excess Proceeds- Collecting excess money from the
>             auction/sale of the property.
>                 o Wait until the property goes to the auction block
>                   and if there's any money left after the 1^st Lien
>                   holder is paid, you may get something back...
>                   Doubtful in many cases since all the homes going
>                   back are worth less than the mortgage
>          9. Postponements - Delay the auction/sale date of the property.
>                 o Delay the public auction of the property while you
>                   try to figure something out
>                 o This will only buy you time and you'll still have to
>                   face the music later
>         10. Stay In Your Home - Continue living in your current home.
>                 o If you can afford the payments and are willing to
>                   stick it out for 10 years or more, then just stay put
>
>  
>
> -Naji
>
>  
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* 
> 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] 
> *On Behalf Of *Bill Effros
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:35 AM
> *To:* How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...
>
>  
>
> Carlos,
>
> I agree!
>
> Please take a little time to explain to others what you mean.  Many 
> have tried to explain in the past, but list membership keeps changing, 
> and there is so much in the archives it is daunting for new members to 
> figure this out.
>
> Also remember, most list members are not professional sellers.  Most 
> sell only a handful of houses in a lifetime, and many have never sold 
> a house before.  (You can bet nobody has sold a house before into this 
> situation.)
>
> Change the subject line to "Short Sales" so future members can find it 
> back.  Be sure to mention there was no such thing as a "short sale" 
> when most people bought their homes -- this is a new and expanding 
> field that 5-Day Sellers are perfectly positioned to explore.
>
> Bill Effros
> Author
>
> SKY HIGH wrote:
>
> You should not do BK just for the house.  If it's for other debts then 
> it may make more sense.  As far as foreclosure it never makes sense to 
> allow bank to foreclose.  If you have no other option then take the 
> best offer you received & do a short sale.
>
> Carlos A. Chica
>
> Sky High Planning, Inc.
>
> 7380 Sand Lake Rd.  #500
>
> Orlando, FL  32819
>
> Office:  (407) 352-3220
>
> Fax:      (407) 738-4816
>
> Cell:      (646) 552-0107
>
> skyhighplanning at gmail.com <mailto:skyhighplanning at gmail.com>
>
>  
>
> Coming Soon:
>
>  
>
> www. SKYHIGHPLANNING .com
>
>  
>
> "It's kind of Fun to do the Impossible"
>
>  
>
>  -  Walt Disney
>
>
> On Mar 10, 2009, at 10:25 AM, Merry McConnell <merrymcc at gmail.com 
> <mailto:merrymcc at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>> Hello Bill,
>>
>> The sale is over and the highest bid was too low for me to accept.  I 
>> kept my appointment with the lawyer this morning, but on different 
>> terms.  I'm starting the process for bankruptcy and foreclosure...and 
>> it does not feel good.
>>
>> The sale in itself was a wonderful experience.  We really felt we had 
>> at least six serious bidders, but they all wanted to 'steal' the 
>> property instead of buy it.  We had a total of 69 responses and
>> about 40 people come through.  There were 16 names on the bidding 
>> sheet and the majority dropped off at the 120,000 mark. 
>>
>> I still appreciate discovering this method for selling, because I've 
>> learned so much through the process.  There's always a possibility 
>> that I could have put a 'by owner' sale sign out front and
>> attracted people with a different price range in their minds, because 
>> even though I can hear you say over and over that the low bid I 
>> received is the FMV, I feel I attracted people focused on the
>> 109,500 I advertised.  Forgive me! 
>>
>> I've run out of time and I have my friend here with me for one more 
>> week.  I could make a last ditch effort to run another add for this 
>> weekend, but if I do that we wouldn't be able to 'dismantle' my house 
>> and move the things out. 
>>
>> I'm still in disbelief that things didn't work out to at least a 
>> reasonable closeness to the low figure I was willing to accept.  The 
>> high bid was rediculous and I'm not willing to let someone come in on 
>> such a low figure and benefit from my years of hard work and $$$$ 
>> worth of improvements.
>> I'd rather let the bank eat this one.
>>
>> Thank you again, Bill...really!
>>
>> Merry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com 
>> <mailto:bill at effros.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Good going, Merry!
>>
>> Most of the people who say they're coming back, and say they're going 
>> to participate, will not.  Don't be discouraged by this, it doesn't 
>> matter.
>>
>> You will only have 1 final buyer, and 2 others will push that buyer 
>> up to fair market value.  All the rest are just window dressing.
>>
>> The people you are talking to are real.  You are real.  The process 
>> is fair.
>>
>> No matter what the final bid, proceed.
>>
>> Let the high bidder negotiate with the bank -- just get out of the 
>> way, and let both the high bidder and the bank know you are getting 
>> out of the way before they start negotiating with each other.
>>
>> Others may call after the bidding.  Send them along to the bank, too 
>> -- but let your high bidder get the first shot at your house.
>>
>> The price you are offered, even if it is much much lower than you 
>> thought it would be, is the current fair market value.  If the bank 
>> doesn't accept that fact, they will get to hold onto that house until 
>> they learn.  If they do accept it, they will be able to get it, or 
>> maybe a little bit more, from your high bidder or one of the other 
>> bidders.
>>
>> In any case, you will have determined the fair market value, and sold 
>> your home within 5 days.
>>
>> And that's the whole point of this exercise.
>>
>> Bill Effros
>> Author
>>
>>
>>
>> Merry McConnell wrote:
>>
>> A Quick Update!
>>
>> Phew!
>>
>> I had 32 calls by Friday night...and this morning (Sat) the phone has 
>> been ringing non-stop.
>> One person offered a cash offer but I knew better!  Thank goodness 
>> read the book!
>> The house is C L E A N and de-cluttered, good smelling and all lights 
>> are ON!  People LOVE
>> it and I can /feel /determination to own from three sets.  Oh yeah...
>>
>> We (my friend and I) are having a ball...loving talking to people and 
>> feeling comfortable with the
>> entire process.  Everyone says they're going in on the Round Robin - 
>> only four signed the sheet
>> but others are bringing back spouses, etc.
>>
>> All I know is that people are awe-struck with the place and they all 
>> 'want' it. 
>>
>> Thank you, Bill for writing this book...no matter how this works out.
>>
>> I have my appt. with my lawyer for the contract signing on Monday at 
>> 10am...because I just
>> /know /I'll need it!
>>
>> More Later!
>>
>> Merry
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> 5-DayForum mailing list
>> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>   
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> 5-DayForum mailing list
>> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
>> <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> IF YOU THINK YOU CAN OR YOU THINK YOU CAN'T...YOU'RE RIGHT!  Henry Ford
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> 5-DayForum mailing list
>> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
>> <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>
>  
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>  
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
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From leslierundquist at gmail.com  Tue Mar 10 12:06:12 2009
From: leslierundquist at gmail.com (leslie rundquist)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 11:06:12 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...
In-Reply-To: <B0E87E2607D546F9AE25896F3354996E@Main>
References: <92c4cf3d0903071202y62af8ee8p304fd4c1ea7e62b3@mail.gmail.com>
	<49B2E325.9090300@effros.com>
	<92c4cf3d0903100725o254d173dwe174573b168f863f@mail.gmail.com>
	<E713ADEC-B2CC-4AFD-8ABD-F54DC8A123EB@gmail.com>
	<49B6888E.9010808@effros.com> <B0E87E2607D546F9AE25896F3354996E@Main>
Message-ID: <636451100903100906s475d5ad7g6422739311a81ee5@mail.gmail.com>

Though you didn't get the price you hoped for, it did not fail as you now
have a potential short sale buyer!

I too agree that short sale is the way to go! The banks are definitely more
interested in short selling as opposed to a foreclosure that cost them
nearly 3 times more than a short sale.
Most times the difference is forgiven, however in some instances they are
requiring it to be paid back. Check with your lender. ( I did a short sale
on my own home, before I was a Realtor, in 2002, my unpaid balance was
forgiven & showed paid in full on my credit report)

If you aren't sure how to orchestrate a short sale then do enlist a Realtor
as the bank will pay the commission.

If you don't feel this is something you want to attempt and the only reason
for filing bankruptcy is the mortgage then consider deed in lieu of
foreclosure ( where you sign the deed back over to the bank with the loan
being forgiven) , not sure but think this fares better on your credit than
foreclosure.

I am a Realtor  but I also work for a third party company( hired by mortgage
companies) that contact homeowners in trouble, face to face, in an attempt
to educate then about the options available to them aside from foreclosure.
Most people have stopped answering their phones or opening their mail & feel
they have no way out.
They are being offered loan modifications, deferment, short sale opportunity
or deed in lieu of foreclosure.

Much luck to you and keep in mind this isn't the end of the world for you...
look at it as a new beginning!

much peace!

Leslie Rundquist
314-283-5670

Rundquist Realty
1011 Highway OO
Pacific Mo 63069-5912
fax 314-529-3429


On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Don Lynch <dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com>wrote:

>  Bill,
>
> Good advice, as Carlos said a short sale is much less destructive to ones
> credit.. From what I heard a short sale will lower your FICO by 100 points
> +/- which can be rebuilt quickly and has no long term lingering effect a
> bankruptcy has (10 years).
>
> Don Lynch
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
> *To:* How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days<5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:34 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...
>
> Carlos,
>
> I agree!
>
> Please take a little time to explain to others what you mean.  Many have
> tried to explain in the past, but list membership keeps changing, and there
> is so much in the archives it is daunting for new members to figure this
> out.
>
> Also remember, most list members are not professional sellers.  Most sell
> only a handful of houses in a lifetime, and many have never sold a house
> before.  (You can bet nobody has sold a house before into this situation.)
>
> Change the subject line to "Short Sales" so future members can find it
> back.  Be sure to mention there was no such thing as a "short sale" when
> most people bought their homes -- this is a new and expanding field that
> 5-Day Sellers are perfectly positioned to explore.
>
> Bill Effros
> Author
>
> SKY HIGH wrote:
>
> You should not do BK just for the house.  If it's for other debts then it
> may make more sense.  As far as foreclosure it never makes sense to allow
> bank to foreclose.  If you have no other option then take the best offer you
> received & do a short sale.
>
> Carlos A. Chica Sky High Planning, Inc.
> 7380 Sand Lake Rd.  #500
> Orlando, FL  32819
> Office:  (407) 352-3220
> Fax:      (407) 738-4816
> Cell:      (646) 552-0107
> skyhighplanning at gmail.com
>
> Coming Soon:
>
> www. SKYHIGHPLANNING .com
>
> "It's kind of Fun to do the Impossible"
>
>  -  Walt Disney
>
> On Mar 10, 2009, at 10:25 AM, Merry McConnell <merrymcc at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  Hello Bill,
>
> The sale is over and the highest bid was too low for me to accept.  I kept
> my appointment with the lawyer this morning, but on different terms.  I'm
> starting the process for bankruptcy and foreclosure...and it does not feel
> good.
>
> The sale in itself was a wonderful experience.  We really felt we had at
> least six serious bidders, but they all wanted to 'steal' the property
> instead of buy it.  We had a total of 69 responses and
> about 40 people come through.  There were 16 names on the bidding sheet and
> the majority dropped off at the 120,000 mark.
>
> I still appreciate discovering this method for selling, because I've
> learned so much through the process.  There's always a possibility that I
> could have put a 'by owner' sale sign out front and
> attracted people with a different price range in their minds, because even
> though I can hear you say over and over that the low bid I received is the
> FMV, I feel I attracted people focused on the
> 109,500 I advertised.  Forgive me!
>
> I've run out of time and I have my friend here with me for one more week.
> I could make a last ditch effort to run another add for this weekend, but if
> I do that we wouldn't be able to 'dismantle' my house and move the things
> out.
>
> I'm still in disbelief that things didn't work out to at least a reasonable
> closeness to the low figure I was willing to accept.  The high bid was
> rediculous and I'm not willing to let someone come in on such a low figure
> and benefit from my years of hard work and $$$$ worth of improvements.
> I'd rather let the bank eat this one.
>
> Thank you again, Bill...really!
>
> Merry
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>
>> Good going, Merry!
>>
>> Most of the people who say they're coming back, and say they're going to
>> participate, will not.  Don't be discouraged by this, it doesn't matter.
>>
>> You will only have 1 final buyer, and 2 others will push that buyer up to
>> fair market value.  All the rest are just window dressing.
>>
>> The people you are talking to are real.  You are real.  The process is
>> fair.
>>
>> No matter what the final bid, proceed.
>>
>> Let the high bidder negotiate with the bank -- just get out of the way,
>> and let both the high bidder and the bank know you are getting out of the
>> way before they start negotiating with each other.
>>
>> Others may call after the bidding.  Send them along to the bank, too --
>> but let your high bidder get the first shot at your house.
>>
>> The price you are offered, even if it is much much lower than you thought
>> it would be, is the current fair market value.  If the bank doesn't accept
>> that fact, they will get to hold onto that house until they learn.  If they
>> do accept it, they will be able to get it, or maybe a little bit more, from
>> your high bidder or one of the other bidders.
>>
>> In any case, you will have determined the fair market value, and sold your
>> home within 5 days.
>>
>> And that's the whole point of this exercise.
>>
>> Bill Effros
>> Author
>>
>>
>>
>> Merry McConnell wrote:
>>
>>  A Quick Update!
>>
>> Phew!
>>
>> I had 32 calls by Friday night...and this morning (Sat) the phone has been
>> ringing non-stop.
>> One person offered a cash offer but I knew better!  Thank goodness read
>> the book!
>> The house is C L E A N and de-cluttered, good smelling and all lights are
>> ON!  People LOVE
>> it and I can *feel *determination to own from three sets.  Oh yeah...
>>
>> We (my friend and I) are having a ball...loving talking to people and
>> feeling comfortable with the
>> entire process.  Everyone says they're going in on the Round Robin - only
>> four signed the sheet
>> but others are bringing back spouses, etc.
>>
>> All I know is that people are awe-struck with the place and they all
>> 'want' it.
>>
>> Thank you, Bill for writing this book...no matter how this works out.
>>
>> I have my appt. with my lawyer for the contract signing on Monday at
>> 10am...because I just
>> *know *I'll need it!
>>
>> More Later!
>>
>> Merry
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> 5-DayForum mailing list5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.comhttp://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> 5-DayForum mailing list
>> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>>
>> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> IF YOU THINK YOU CAN OR YOU THINK YOU CAN'T...YOU'RE RIGHT!  Henry Ford
>
>  _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.comhttp://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
> Donald C. Lynch
> 500 Smokey Hollow Drive
> Waxhaw, NC 28173
> (704) 843-1392 - Office
> (704) 243-3971 - fax
> (407) 257-7845 - cell
> (800) 880-7845
> (704) 843-8325 - home
> dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
> http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
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From gary_st_armand at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 10 12:20:07 2009
From: gary_st_armand at yahoo.com (Gary St. Armand)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 09:20:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [5-DayForum] 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 11
Message-ID: <572738.32947.qm@web45013.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Naji,
?
Way to tell it. The only thing?I'd say is you do attorney, doctors and plumbers a 
disservice? by lumping them with realtors. The amount of time?and education required 
to gain entry into these professions is much greater. It takes about?a week of class work
and a test ( 70% passing grade) to become a real estate agent in my state.?The writing is on the wall for this vocation. It's clear to me that this is?an industry that is primed to go the way of travel agents and elevator operators. 
?
I am an investor and a licensed RE salesperson. I got my license to gain access to the MLS to do my deals. The only people that will make an attempt to defend the current?model are those that have an interest in perpetuating the 6% commission. The internet will be the end of the 6% commission. Once a system is developed where people
will fully expose their house, they will see no reason to continue to fork over 6% of their largest asset to the middleman. Unfortunately, that system will be vigorously opposed by the NAR, and their members. 
?
On second thought maybe we pay the?title agents 6%, the attorneys 6%, mortgage brokers 
6% as well. They need to make a living too.

--- On Tue, 3/10/09, 5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com> wrote:


From: 5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Subject: 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 11
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Date: Tuesday, March 10, 2009, 3:23 PM


Send 5-DayForum mailing list submissions to
??? 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
??? http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
??? 5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com

You can reach the person managing the list at
??? 5-dayforum-owner at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of 5-DayForum digest..."

Today's Topics:

???1. Re: Why you shouldn't protect the broker (James Fleming)
???2. Re: Why you shouldn't protect the broker (Naji)
???3. Re: Why you shouldn't protect the broker (Tony Falasca)
???4. Re: Why you shouldn't protect the broker (Kyle Cascioli)
???5. Nine Pillars of the Citadel (Kyle Cascioli)
???6. Re: Sale in Progress... (Merry McConnell)
???7. High End Homes (Shawn J)
???8. High End Homes (Shawn J)
???9. Re: Sale in Progress... (SKY HIGH)
? 10. Re: Sale in Progress... (Bill Effros)

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From nkhouri at cfl.rr.com  Tue Mar 10 12:28:37 2009
From: nkhouri at cfl.rr.com (Naji)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 12:28:37 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...
In-Reply-To: <636451100903100906s475d5ad7g6422739311a81ee5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <92c4cf3d0903071202y62af8ee8p304fd4c1ea7e62b3@mail.gmail.com><49B2E325.9090300@effros.com><92c4cf3d0903100725o254d173dwe174573b168f863f@mail.gmail.com><E713ADEC-B2CC-4AFD-8ABD-F54DC8A123EB@gmail.com><49B6888E.9010808@effros.com>
	<B0E87E2607D546F9AE25896F3354996E@Main>
	<636451100903100906s475d5ad7g6422739311a81ee5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1B834636C77D4C43819ECC3DA8D5C2C7@NSKHome>

Prior to Bush's signature on HR 3648 if the debt was forgiven by the bank
you would receive a 1099 statement for that amount and you were zinged with
income tax due from uncle sam. With the new bill, you don't have to worry
about uncle sam coming after you, however, there are caveats: This applies
to primary residences, you may have to prove that if you took out money by
refinancing it was spent on updating the home, and this only applies if the
debt is forgiven on or before Dec. 31, 2009.

 

Seek the advice of a tax accountant as these laws and regulations are
changing on a regular basis.

 

-Naji

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of leslie rundquist
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 12:06 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...

 

Though you didn't get the price you hoped for, it did not fail as you now
have a potential short sale buyer!

I too agree that short sale is the way to go! The banks are definitely more
interested in short selling as opposed to a foreclosure that cost them
nearly 3 times more than a short sale.
Most times the difference is forgiven, however in some instances they are
requiring it to be paid back. Check with your lender. ( I did a short sale
on my own home, before I was a Realtor, in 2002, my unpaid balance was
forgiven & showed paid in full on my credit report)

If you aren't sure how to orchestrate a short sale then do enlist a Realtor
as the bank will pay the commission. 

If you don't feel this is something you want to attempt and the only reason
for filing bankruptcy is the mortgage then consider deed in lieu of
foreclosure ( where you sign the deed back over to the bank with the loan
being forgiven) , not sure but think this fares better on your credit than
foreclosure.

I am a Realtor  but I also work for a third party company( hired by mortgage
companies) that contact homeowners in trouble, face to face, in an attempt
to educate then about the options available to them aside from foreclosure.
Most people have stopped answering their phones or opening their mail & feel
they have no way out.
They are being offered loan modifications, deferment, short sale opportunity
or deed in lieu of foreclosure.

Much luck to you and keep in mind this isn't the end of the world for you...
look at it as a new beginning! 

much peace!

Leslie Rundquist
314-283-5670

Rundquist Realty
1011 Highway OO 
Pacific Mo 63069-5912
fax 314-529-3429



On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Don Lynch <dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com>
wrote:

Bill,

 

Good advice, as Carlos said a short sale is much less destructive to ones
credit.. From what I heard a short sale will lower your FICO by 100 points
+/- which can be rebuilt quickly and has no long term lingering effect a
bankruptcy has (10 years). 

 

Don Lynch

 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Bill <mailto:bill at effros.com>  Effros 

To: How To Sell Your Home
<mailto:5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>  in 5-Days 

Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:34 AM

Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...

 

Carlos,

I agree!

Please take a little time to explain to others what you mean.  Many have
tried to explain in the past, but list membership keeps changing, and there
is so much in the archives it is daunting for new members to figure this
out.

Also remember, most list members are not professional sellers.  Most sell
only a handful of houses in a lifetime, and many have never sold a house
before.  (You can bet nobody has sold a house before into this situation.)

Change the subject line to "Short Sales" so future members can find it back.
Be sure to mention there was no such thing as a "short sale" when most
people bought their homes -- this is a new and expanding field that 5-Day
Sellers are perfectly positioned to explore.

Bill Effros
Author

SKY HIGH wrote: 

You should not do BK just for the house.  If it's for other debts then it
may make more sense.  As far as foreclosure it never makes sense to allow
bank to foreclose.  If you have no other option then take the best offer you
received & do a short sale.

Carlos A. Chica 

Sky High Planning, Inc.

7380 Sand Lake Rd.  #500

Orlando, FL  32819

Office:  (407) 352-3220

Fax:      (407) 738-4816

Cell:      (646) 552-0107

skyhighplanning at gmail.com

 

Coming Soon:

 

www. SKYHIGHPLANNING .com

 

"It's kind of Fun to do the Impossible"

 

 -  Walt Disney


On Mar 10, 2009, at 10:25 AM, Merry McConnell <merrymcc at gmail.com> wrote:

Hello Bill,

The sale is over and the highest bid was too low for me to accept.  I kept
my appointment with the lawyer this morning, but on different terms.  I'm
starting the process for bankruptcy and foreclosure...and it does not feel
good.

The sale in itself was a wonderful experience.  We really felt we had at
least six serious bidders, but they all wanted to 'steal' the property
instead of buy it.  We had a total of 69 responses and
about 40 people come through.  There were 16 names on the bidding sheet and
the majority dropped off at the 120,000 mark.  

I still appreciate discovering this method for selling, because I've learned
so much through the process.  There's always a possibility that I could have
put a 'by owner' sale sign out front and 
attracted people with a different price range in their minds, because even
though I can hear you say over and over that the low bid I received is the
FMV, I feel I attracted people focused on the
109,500 I advertised.  Forgive me!  

I've run out of time and I have my friend here with me for one more week.  I
could make a last ditch effort to run another add for this weekend, but if I
do that we wouldn't be able to 'dismantle' my house and move the things out.


I'm still in disbelief that things didn't work out to at least a reasonable
closeness to the low figure I was willing to accept.  The high bid was
rediculous and I'm not willing to let someone come in on such a low figure
and benefit from my years of hard work and $$$$ worth of improvements.
I'd rather let the bank eat this one.

Thank you again, Bill...really!

Merry







On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:

Good going, Merry!

Most of the people who say they're coming back, and say they're going to
participate, will not.  Don't be discouraged by this, it doesn't matter.

You will only have 1 final buyer, and 2 others will push that buyer up to
fair market value.  All the rest are just window dressing.

The people you are talking to are real.  You are real.  The process is fair.

No matter what the final bid, proceed.

Let the high bidder negotiate with the bank -- just get out of the way, and
let both the high bidder and the bank know you are getting out of the way
before they start negotiating with each other.

Others may call after the bidding.  Send them along to the bank, too -- but
let your high bidder get the first shot at your house.

The price you are offered, even if it is much much lower than you thought it
would be, is the current fair market value.  If the bank doesn't accept that
fact, they will get to hold onto that house until they learn.  If they do
accept it, they will be able to get it, or maybe a little bit more, from
your high bidder or one of the other bidders.

In any case, you will have determined the fair market value, and sold your
home within 5 days.

And that's the whole point of this exercise.

Bill Effros
Author



Merry McConnell wrote: 

A Quick Update!

Phew!

I had 32 calls by Friday night...and this morning (Sat) the phone has been
ringing non-stop.
One person offered a cash offer but I knew better!  Thank goodness read the
book!
The house is C L E A N and de-cluttered, good smelling and all lights are
ON!  People LOVE
it and I can feel determination to own from three sets.  Oh yeah...

We (my friend and I) are having a ball...loving talking to people and
feeling comfortable with the
entire process.  Everyone says they're going in on the Round Robin - only
four signed the sheet
but others are bringing back spouses, etc.

All I know is that people are awe-struck with the place and they all 'want'
it.  

Thank you, Bill for writing this book...no matter how this works out.

I have my appt. with my lawyer for the contract signing on Monday at
10am...because I just
know I'll need it!

More Later!

Merry






  _____  



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-- 
IF YOU THINK YOU CAN OR YOU THINK YOU CAN'T...YOU'RE RIGHT!  Henry Ford

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  _____  



 
_______________________________________________
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http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
  

  _____  


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5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

Donald C. Lynch
500 Smokey Hollow Drive
Waxhaw, NC 28173
(704) 843-1392 - Office
(704) 243-3971 - fax
(407) 257-7845 - cell
(800) 880-7845
(704) 843-8325 - home
dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/


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From dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com  Tue Mar 10 12:42:44 2009
From: dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com (Don Lynch)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 12:42:44 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 11
In-Reply-To: <572738.32947.qm@web45013.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <572738.32947.qm@web45013.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6CF9F28F81E14776933308E05F45C33D@Main>

Gary,

While you are at, you and Naji can do all the DIY work like do your own plumbing, build your own house, grow your own food, put a power generator in your back yard so you don't have to pay the utility companies, clean your own house, repair your car, etc., etc. etc., Do it all yourself. Why pay anybody anything?  BTW you do a great disservice to real estate professionals, for which there are many specialties, who take many years of training (classroom and OJT) to hone their profession. As an investor and realtor myself I see no problems with negotiating commissions when it is a determinant in a deal, but I do not begrudge a realtor or salespeson their earned part of a transaction! 

I might add that I find this forum very helpful in that the 5-day method, which I have used successfully myself, but don't hold your breath about the real estate industry going the way of travel agencies and the like. The industry will be here but it will be always changing. For the better I hope.


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Gary St. Armand 
  To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 12:20 PM
  Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 11


        Naji,

        Way to tell it. The only thing I'd say is you do attorney, doctors and plumbers a 
        disservice  by lumping them with realtors. The amount of time and education required 
        to gain entry into these professions is much greater. It takes about a week of class work
        and a test ( 70% passing grade) to become a real estate agent in my state. The writing is on the wall for this vocation. It's clear to me that this is an industry that is primed to go the way of travel agents and elevator operators. 

        I am an investor and a licensed RE salesperson. I got my license to gain access to the MLS to do my deals. The only people that will make an attempt to defend the current model are those that have an interest in perpetuating the 6% commission. The internet will be the end of the 6% commission. Once a system is developed where people
        will fully expose their house, they will see no reason to continue to fork over 6% of their largest asset to the middleman. Unfortunately, that system will be vigorously opposed by the NAR, and their members. 

        On second thought maybe we pay the title agents 6%, the attorneys 6%, mortgage brokers 
        6% as well. They need to make a living too.

        --- On Tue, 3/10/09, 5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com> wrote:


          From: 5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
          Subject: 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 11
          To: 5-dayforum at mailman..howtosellyourhomein5days.com
          Date: Tuesday, March 10, 2009, 3:23 PM


          Send 5-DayForum mailing list submissions to
              5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com

          To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
              http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

          or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
              5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com

          You can reach the person managing the list at
              5-dayforum-owner at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com

          When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
          than "Re: Contents of 5-DayForum digest..."

          Today's Topics:

             1. Re: Why you shouldn't protect the broker (James Fleming)
             2. Re: Why you shouldn't protect the broker (Naji)
             3. Re: Why you shouldn't protect the broker (Tony Falasca)
             4. Re: Why you shouldn't protect the broker (Kyle Cascioli)
             5. Nine Pillars of the Citadel (Kyle Cascioli)
             6. Re: Sale in Progress... (Merry McConnell)
             7. High End Homes (Shawn J)
             8. High End Homes (Shawn J)
             9. Re: Sale in Progress... (SKY HIGH)
            10. Re: Sale in Progress... (Bill Effros)

          _______________________________________________
          5-DayForum mailing list
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          http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
       



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  http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

Donald C. Lynch
500 Smokey Hollow Drive
Waxhaw, NC 28173
(704) 843-1392 - Office
(704) 243-3971 - fax
(407) 257-7845 - cell
(800) 880-7845
(704) 843-8325 - home
dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/
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From keith.pinster at comcast.net  Tue Mar 10 13:13:31 2009
From: keith.pinster at comcast.net (Keith R. Pinster)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 10:13:31 -0700
Subject: [5-DayForum] Short sale
In-Reply-To: <E8687DEB9C959E488879896C3F6D001121698AA0@winxbeus12.exchange.xchg>
References: <49B685E0.8020203@effros.com>
	<E8687DEB9C959E488879896C3F6D001121698AA0@winxbeus12.exchange.xchg>
Message-ID: <3A52AE6E61474C468EA0BB4F60C3A6E6@keithoffice>

One very important thing about finding the right realtor to do a short sale
for you is their ability to negotiate with the bank.  If they don't know how
(or thing that it is possible) to make sure the bank will not issue a 1099-C
for the difference between what you owe and what the short sale price is,
FIND A DIFFERENT REALTOR!  Sure, with a hardship you can get out from under
the 1099, but it is much better to not have to deal with it in the first
place.

 

Keith Pinster - Real Estate Investor, Vancouver, WA

 

  _____  

From: O'Day, Lili [mailto:lili at lilioday.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 8:42 AM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...

 

 

Why not do a short sale instead of a foreclosure?  The bank will take less
than is currently owed on the property and pay the cost of a Realtor and
your attorney costs to do a short sale.  If normally cost the bank about
approx $50,000 to foreclose, and they still won't get more than the property
is worth (Bill is correct the market is the market after all).  A short sale
would have less of a negative impact on your credit report long term than a
foreclosure. It's at least worth a try.  If you go this route, make sure
that the Realtor that you use has knowledge of the short sale process and
knows what they're doing, so as not to waste time..  They need to be able to
work well with the asset manager in the loss mitigation department of your
bank.

 

A lot of people are going through this.  It's a real nightmare!  Know all
your options before going forward with a forclosure.  Best of luck, 

 

Lili O'Day

Broker Associate  IL &FL

 

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5day
s.com] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:23 AM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...

Merry,

Thanks for getting back to us.

People all over the country are having the same experience you just went
through -- no one will pay anything near what the owner has in the house.
And it just gets worse.

There is nothing home-owners can do but let the banks eat the losses.

You clearly did everything you could do, and still you didn't come close to
the value the bank appraisers told you your home was worth when you took
your mortgage.

Many, many people are in the same boat, and more discover they are in this
boat every day.

The only thing that makes sense is for home owners to walk away from these
homes and mortgages, and that is what I am recommending to all who finds
themselves in the same same situation you are in.

At some point everyone will realize that ALL mortgages must be re-set to
reflect current values, and that we will all have to pay for it.  (That is
already going on in terms of bank bailouts--but the process has not fairly
reached down to homeowners who would be foolish to continue paying outsized
mortgages on homes that will not again be worth what they paid for a long
time.)

At some point inflation will kick in again, and home prices will again
return to what they were -- but that process could take a decade.  No one
can say.

In the meantime, go through the bankruptcy with the knowledge that you did
everything you could to avoid it.  The prices you were offered for your home
are the most anyone could get at this time, and you know you cannot afford
to wait for times to change.  

We will all have to rebuild our finances, and I'm sure programs will develop
to ease the rebuilding for those hardest hit.

Check in with us from time to time to let us know how you are doing.  As new
resources develop for people with "upside-down" mortgages, we will be
talking about them, and how they alter the home-selling market.  So many
people share your dilemma, this country will have to develop remedies -- and
when they do, you can be sure there will be a lot of people on this Forum
prepared to vouch for you.

Regards,

Bill Effros
Author

Merry McConnell wrote: 

Hello Bill,

The sale is over and the highest bid was too low for me to accept.  I kept
my appointment with the lawyer this morning, but on different terms.  I'm
starting the process for bankruptcy and foreclosure...and it does not feel
good.

The sale in itself was a wonderful experience.  We really felt we had at
least six serious bidders, but they all wanted to 'steal' the property
instead of buy it.  We had a total of 69 responses and
about 40 people come through.  There were 16 names on the bidding sheet and
the majority dropped off at the 120,000 mark.  

I still appreciate discovering this method for selling, because I've learned
so much through the process.  There's always a possibility that I could have
put a 'by owner' sale sign out front and 
attracted people with a different price range in their minds, because even
though I can hear you say over and over that the low bid I received is the
FMV, I feel I attracted people focused on the
109,500 I advertised.  Forgive me!  

I've run out of time and I have my friend here with me for one more week.  I
could make a last ditch effort to run another add for this weekend, but if I
do that we wouldn't be able to 'dismantle' my house and move the things out.


I'm still in disbelief that things didn't work out to at least a reasonable
closeness to the low figure I was willing to accept.  The high bid was
rediculous and I'm not willing to let someone come in on such a low figure
and benefit from my years of hard work and $$$$ worth of improvements.
I'd rather let the bank eat this one.

Thank you again, Bill...really!

Merry







On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:

Good going, Merry!

Most of the people who say they're coming back, and say they're going to
participate, will not.  Don't be discouraged by this, it doesn't matter.

You will only have 1 final buyer, and 2 others will push that buyer up to
fair market value.  All the rest are just window dressing.

The people you are talking to are real.  You are real.  The process is fair.

No matter what the final bid, proceed.

Let the high bidder negotiate with the bank -- just get out of the way, and
let both the high bidder and the bank know you are getting out of the way
before they start negotiating with each other.

Others may call after the bidding.  Send them along to the bank, too -- but
let your high bidder get the first shot at your house.

The price you are offered, even if it is much much lower than you thought it
would be, is the current fair market value.  If the bank doesn't accept that
fact, they will get to hold onto that house until they learn.  If they do
accept it, they will be able to get it, or maybe a little bit more, from
your high bidder or one of the other bidders.

In any case, you will have determined the fair market value, and sold your
home within 5 days.

And that's the whole point of this exercise.

Bill Effros
Author



Merry McConnell wrote: 

A Quick Update!

Phew!

I had 32 calls by Friday night...and this morning (Sat) the phone has been
ringing non-stop.
One person offered a cash offer but I knew better!  Thank goodness read the
book!
The house is C L E A N and de-cluttered, good smelling and all lights are
ON!  People LOVE
it and I can feel determination to own from three sets.  Oh yeah...

We (my friend and I) are having a ball...loving talking to people and
feeling comfortable with the
entire process.  Everyone says they're going in on the Round Robin - only
four signed the sheet
but others are bringing back spouses, etc.

All I know is that people are awe-struck with the place and they all 'want'
it.  

Thank you, Bill for writing this book...no matter how this works out.

I have my appt. with my lawyer for the contract signing on Monday at
10am...because I just
know I'll need it!

More Later!

Merry






  _____  



 
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From jamesfleming.realestate at gmail.com  Tue Mar 10 13:25:28 2009
From: jamesfleming.realestate at gmail.com (James Fleming)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 10:25:28 -0700
Subject: [5-DayForum] Short sale
In-Reply-To: <3A52AE6E61474C468EA0BB4F60C3A6E6@keithoffice>
References: <49B685E0.8020203@effros.com><E8687DEB9C959E488879896C3F6D001121698AA0@winxbeus12.exchange.xchg>
	<3A52AE6E61474C468EA0BB4F60C3A6E6@keithoffice>
Message-ID: <AF4B4B4CD99646A197C9F39C4CED1F56@jamesfleming>

Keith - 

 

By law, lenders are required to issue a 1099-C whenever they agree to a
short sale.  This is non-negotiable.  It is the Mortgage Forgiveness and
Debt Relief Act that gives borrowers relief from the associated tax if the
debt relief was for the mortgage on their primary residence.  Borrowers who
have received a 1099-C can file a form 982 with their tax return to obtain
this benefit.  For more information about the legislation, go to the
following IRS link:

 

http://www.irs.gov/individuals/article/0,,id=179414,00.html

 

Jim Fleming

Realtor & Lecturer

 

Vancouver WA

 

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourho
mein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtose
llyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Keith R. Pinster
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:14 AM
To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Short sale

 

One very important thing about finding the right realtor to do a short sale
for you is their ability to negotiate with the bank.  If they don't know how
(or thing that it is possible) to make sure the bank will not issue a 1099-C
for the difference between what you owe and what the short sale price is,
FIND A DIFFERENT REALTOR!  Sure, with a hardship you can get out from under
the 1099, but it is much better to not have to deal with it in the first
place.

 

Keith Pinster - Real Estate Investor, Vancouver, WA

 

  _____  

From: O'Day, Lili [mailto:lili at lilioday.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 8:42 AM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...

 

 

Why not do a short sale instead of a foreclosure?  The bank will take less
than is currently owed on the property and pay the cost of a Realtor and
your attorney costs to do a short sale.  If normally cost the bank about
approx $50,000 to foreclose, and they still won't get more than the property
is worth (Bill is correct the market is the market after all).  A short sale
would have less of a negative impact on your credit report long term than a
foreclosure. It's at least worth a try.  If you go this route, make sure
that the Realtor that you use has knowledge of the short sale process and
knows what they're doing, so as not to waste time..  They need to be able to
work well with the asset manager in the loss mitigation department of your
bank.

 

A lot of people are going through this.  It's a real nightmare!  Know all
your options before going forward with a forclosure.  Best of luck, 

 

Lili O'Day

Broker Associate  IL &FL

 

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5day
s.com] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:23 AM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...

Merry,

Thanks for getting back to us.

People all over the country are having the same experience you just went
through -- no one will pay anything near what the owner has in the house.
And it just gets worse.

There is nothing home-owners can do but let the banks eat the losses.

You clearly did everything you could do, and still you didn't come close to
the value the bank appraisers told you your home was worth when you took
your mortgage.

Many, many people are in the same boat, and more discover they are in this
boat every day.

The only thing that makes sense is for home owners to walk away from these
homes and mortgages, and that is what I am recommending to all who finds
themselves in the same same situation you are in.

At some point everyone will realize that ALL mortgages must be re-set to
reflect current values, and that we will all have to pay for it.  (That is
already going on in terms of bank bailouts--but the process has not fairly
reached down to homeowners who would be foolish to continue paying outsized
mortgages on homes that will not again be worth what they paid for a long
time.)

At some point inflation will kick in again, and home prices will again
return to what they were -- but that process could take a decade.  No one
can say.

In the meantime, go through the bankruptcy with the knowledge that you did
everything you could to avoid it.  The prices you were offered for your home
are the most anyone could get at this time, and you know you cannot afford
to wait for times to change.  

We will all have to rebuild our finances, and I'm sure programs will develop
to ease the rebuilding for those hardest hit.

Check in with us from time to time to let us know how you are doing.  As new
resources develop for people with "upside-down" mortgages, we will be
talking about them, and how they alter the home-selling market.  So many
people share your dilemma, this country will have to develop remedies -- and
when they do, you can be sure there will be a lot of people on this Forum
prepared to vouch for you.

Regards,

Bill Effros
Author

Merry McConnell wrote: 

Hello Bill,

The sale is over and the highest bid was too low for me to accept.  I kept
my appointment with the lawyer this morning, but on different terms.  I'm
starting the process for bankruptcy and foreclosure...and it does not feel
good.

The sale in itself was a wonderful experience.  We really felt we had at
least six serious bidders, but they all wanted to 'steal' the property
instead of buy it.  We had a total of 69 responses and
about 40 people come through.  There were 16 names on the bidding sheet and
the majority dropped off at the 120,000 mark.  

I still appreciate discovering this method for selling, because I've learned
so much through the process.  There's always a possibility that I could have
put a 'by owner' sale sign out front and 
attracted people with a different price range in their minds, because even
though I can hear you say over and over that the low bid I received is the
FMV, I feel I attracted people focused on the
109,500 I advertised.  Forgive me!  

I've run out of time and I have my friend here with me for one more week.  I
could make a last ditch effort to run another add for this weekend, but if I
do that we wouldn't be able to 'dismantle' my house and move the things out.


I'm still in disbelief that things didn't work out to at least a reasonable
closeness to the low figure I was willing to accept.  The high bid was
rediculous and I'm not willing to let someone come in on such a low figure
and benefit from my years of hard work and $$$$ worth of improvements.
I'd rather let the bank eat this one.

Thank you again, Bill...really!

Merry






On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:

Good going, Merry!

Most of the people who say they're coming back, and say they're going to
participate, will not.  Don't be discouraged by this, it doesn't matter.

You will only have 1 final buyer, and 2 others will push that buyer up to
fair market value.  All the rest are just window dressing.

The people you are talking to are real.  You are real.  The process is fair.

No matter what the final bid, proceed.

Let the high bidder negotiate with the bank -- just get out of the way, and
let both the high bidder and the bank know you are getting out of the way
before they start negotiating with each other.

Others may call after the bidding.  Send them along to the bank, too -- but
let your high bidder get the first shot at your house.

The price you are offered, even if it is much much lower than you thought it
would be, is the current fair market value.  If the bank doesn't accept that
fact, they will get to hold onto that house until they learn.  If they do
accept it, they will be able to get it, or maybe a little bit more, from
your high bidder or one of the other bidders.

In any case, you will have determined the fair market value, and sold your
home within 5 days.

And that's the whole point of this exercise.

Bill Effros
Author



Merry McConnell wrote: 

A Quick Update!

Phew!

I had 32 calls by Friday night...and this morning (Sat) the phone has been
ringing non-stop.
One person offered a cash offer but I knew better!  Thank goodness read the
book!
The house is C L E A N and de-cluttered, good smelling and all lights are
ON!  People LOVE
it and I can feel determination to own from three sets.  Oh yeah...

We (my friend and I) are having a ball...loving talking to people and
feeling comfortable with the
entire process.  Everyone says they're going in on the Round Robin - only
four signed the sheet
but others are bringing back spouses, etc.

All I know is that people are awe-struck with the place and they all 'want'
it.  

Thank you, Bill for writing this book...no matter how this works out.

I have my appt. with my lawyer for the contract signing on Monday at
10am...because I just
know I'll need it!

More Later!

Merry

 
 





  _____  



 
 
 
_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
  


_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum




-- 
IF YOU THINK YOU CAN OR YOU THINK YOU CAN'T...YOU'RE RIGHT!  Henry Ford

 
 





  _____  



 
 
 
_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
  
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From jamesfleming.realestate at gmail.com  Tue Mar 10 13:46:32 2009
From: jamesfleming.realestate at gmail.com (James Fleming)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 10:46:32 -0700
Subject: [5-DayForum] Short sale
In-Reply-To: <3A52AE6E61474C468EA0BB4F60C3A6E6@keithoffice>
References: <49B685E0.8020203@effros.com><E8687DEB9C959E488879896C3F6D001121698AA0@winxbeus12.exchange.xchg>
	<3A52AE6E61474C468EA0BB4F60C3A6E6@keithoffice>
Message-ID: <C693E5B868D541EC8BD8A4F7DCB4E738@jamesfleming>

Keith - 

 

An additional thing to know about Washington is that this state is a
non-recourse state.  By state law, Mortgage Lenders are prohibited from
suing borrowers for additional funds following foreclosures.  In some
states, the same is true for short sales.  There are a handful of such
"walk-away" states with anti-deficiency laws.  They are Alaska, Arizona,
California, Connecticut, Florida, Idaho, North Carolina, North Dakota, Texas
and Utah.

 

Jim Fleming

Realtor & Lecturer

 

Vancouver WA

 

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourho
mein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtose
llyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Keith R. Pinster
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:14 AM
To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Short sale

 

One very important thing about finding the right realtor to do a short sale
for you is their ability to negotiate with the bank.  If they don't know how
(or thing that it is possible) to make sure the bank will not issue a 1099-C
for the difference between what you owe and what the short sale price is,
FIND A DIFFERENT REALTOR!  Sure, with a hardship you can get out from under
the 1099, but it is much better to not have to deal with it in the first
place.

 

Keith Pinster - Real Estate Investor, Vancouver, WA

 

  _____  

From: O'Day, Lili [mailto:lili at lilioday.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 8:42 AM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...

 

 

Why not do a short sale instead of a foreclosure?  The bank will take less
than is currently owed on the property and pay the cost of a Realtor and
your attorney costs to do a short sale.  If normally cost the bank about
approx $50,000 to foreclose, and they still won't get more than the property
is worth (Bill is correct the market is the market after all).  A short sale
would have less of a negative impact on your credit report long term than a
foreclosure. It's at least worth a try.  If you go this route, make sure
that the Realtor that you use has knowledge of the short sale process and
knows what they're doing, so as not to waste time..  They need to be able to
work well with the asset manager in the loss mitigation department of your
bank.

 

A lot of people are going through this.  It's a real nightmare!  Know all
your options before going forward with a forclosure.  Best of luck, 

 

Lili O'Day

Broker Associate  IL &FL

 

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5day
s.com] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:23 AM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...

Merry,

Thanks for getting back to us.

People all over the country are having the same experience you just went
through -- no one will pay anything near what the owner has in the house.
And it just gets worse.

There is nothing home-owners can do but let the banks eat the losses.

You clearly did everything you could do, and still you didn't come close to
the value the bank appraisers told you your home was worth when you took
your mortgage.

Many, many people are in the same boat, and more discover they are in this
boat every day.

The only thing that makes sense is for home owners to walk away from these
homes and mortgages, and that is what I am recommending to all who finds
themselves in the same same situation you are in.

At some point everyone will realize that ALL mortgages must be re-set to
reflect current values, and that we will all have to pay for it.  (That is
already going on in terms of bank bailouts--but the process has not fairly
reached down to homeowners who would be foolish to continue paying outsized
mortgages on homes that will not again be worth what they paid for a long
time.)

At some point inflation will kick in again, and home prices will again
return to what they were -- but that process could take a decade.  No one
can say.

In the meantime, go through the bankruptcy with the knowledge that you did
everything you could to avoid it.  The prices you were offered for your home
are the most anyone could get at this time, and you know you cannot afford
to wait for times to change.  

We will all have to rebuild our finances, and I'm sure programs will develop
to ease the rebuilding for those hardest hit.

Check in with us from time to time to let us know how you are doing.  As new
resources develop for people with "upside-down" mortgages, we will be
talking about them, and how they alter the home-selling market.  So many
people share your dilemma, this country will have to develop remedies -- and
when they do, you can be sure there will be a lot of people on this Forum
prepared to vouch for you.

Regards,

Bill Effros
Author

Merry McConnell wrote: 

Hello Bill,

The sale is over and the highest bid was too low for me to accept.  I kept
my appointment with the lawyer this morning, but on different terms.  I'm
starting the process for bankruptcy and foreclosure...and it does not feel
good.

The sale in itself was a wonderful experience.  We really felt we had at
least six serious bidders, but they all wanted to 'steal' the property
instead of buy it.  We had a total of 69 responses and
about 40 people come through.  There were 16 names on the bidding sheet and
the majority dropped off at the 120,000 mark.  

I still appreciate discovering this method for selling, because I've learned
so much through the process.  There's always a possibility that I could have
put a 'by owner' sale sign out front and 
attracted people with a different price range in their minds, because even
though I can hear you say over and over that the low bid I received is the
FMV, I feel I attracted people focused on the
109,500 I advertised.  Forgive me!  

I've run out of time and I have my friend here with me for one more week.  I
could make a last ditch effort to run another add for this weekend, but if I
do that we wouldn't be able to 'dismantle' my house and move the things out.


I'm still in disbelief that things didn't work out to at least a reasonable
closeness to the low figure I was willing to accept.  The high bid was
rediculous and I'm not willing to let someone come in on such a low figure
and benefit from my years of hard work and $$$$ worth of improvements.
I'd rather let the bank eat this one.

Thank you again, Bill...really!

Merry






On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:

Good going, Merry!

Most of the people who say they're coming back, and say they're going to
participate, will not.  Don't be discouraged by this, it doesn't matter.

You will only have 1 final buyer, and 2 others will push that buyer up to
fair market value.  All the rest are just window dressing.

The people you are talking to are real.  You are real.  The process is fair.

No matter what the final bid, proceed.

Let the high bidder negotiate with the bank -- just get out of the way, and
let both the high bidder and the bank know you are getting out of the way
before they start negotiating with each other.

Others may call after the bidding.  Send them along to the bank, too -- but
let your high bidder get the first shot at your house.

The price you are offered, even if it is much much lower than you thought it
would be, is the current fair market value.  If the bank doesn't accept that
fact, they will get to hold onto that house until they learn.  If they do
accept it, they will be able to get it, or maybe a little bit more, from
your high bidder or one of the other bidders.

In any case, you will have determined the fair market value, and sold your
home within 5 days.

And that's the whole point of this exercise.

Bill Effros
Author



Merry McConnell wrote: 

A Quick Update!

Phew!

I had 32 calls by Friday night...and this morning (Sat) the phone has been
ringing non-stop.
One person offered a cash offer but I knew better!  Thank goodness read the
book!
The house is C L E A N and de-cluttered, good smelling and all lights are
ON!  People LOVE
it and I can feel determination to own from three sets.  Oh yeah...

We (my friend and I) are having a ball...loving talking to people and
feeling comfortable with the
entire process.  Everyone says they're going in on the Round Robin - only
four signed the sheet
but others are bringing back spouses, etc.

All I know is that people are awe-struck with the place and they all 'want'
it.  

Thank you, Bill for writing this book...no matter how this works out.

I have my appt. with my lawyer for the contract signing on Monday at
10am...because I just
know I'll need it!

More Later!

Merry

 
 





  _____  



 
 
 
_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
  


_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum




-- 
IF YOU THINK YOU CAN OR YOU THINK YOU CAN'T...YOU'RE RIGHT!  Henry Ford

 
 





  _____  



 
 
 
_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
  
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From nkhouri at cfl.rr.com  Tue Mar 10 17:21:47 2009
From: nkhouri at cfl.rr.com (Naji)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 17:21:47 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Short sale
In-Reply-To: <C693E5B868D541EC8BD8A4F7DCB4E738@jamesfleming>
References: <49B685E0.8020203@effros.com><E8687DEB9C959E488879896C3F6D001121698AA0@winxbeus12.exchange.xchg><3A52AE6E61474C468EA0BB4F60C3A6E6@keithoffice>
	<C693E5B868D541EC8BD8A4F7DCB4E738@jamesfleming>
Message-ID: <B68D8BEC155449688BC82F1420508955@NSKHome>

You may want to double check with the state laws and seek tax & legal
advice, each state law is different. Usually, mortgages are non-recourse
while in almost all cases HELOC's are recourse and hence the reason most
will elect to go the bankruptcy way when they have a HELOC on top of their
1st mortgage. And I say in almost all cases because in certain situations a
HELOC may not be considered recourse.

 

-Naji

 

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of James Fleming
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:47 PM
To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Short sale

 

Keith - 

 

An additional thing to know about Washington is that this state is a
non-recourse state.  By state law, Mortgage Lenders are prohibited from
suing borrowers for additional funds following foreclosures.  In some
states, the same is true for short sales.  There are a handful of such
"walk-away" states with anti-deficiency laws.  They are Alaska, Arizona,
California, Connecticut, Florida, Idaho, North Carolina, North Dakota, Texas
and Utah.

 

Jim Fleming

Realtor & Lecturer

 

Vancouver WA

 

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourho
mein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtose
llyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Keith R. Pinster
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:14 AM
To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Short sale

 

One very important thing about finding the right realtor to do a short sale
for you is their ability to negotiate with the bank.  If they don't know how
(or thing that it is possible) to make sure the bank will not issue a 1099-C
for the difference between what you owe and what the short sale price is,
FIND A DIFFERENT REALTOR!  Sure, with a hardship you can get out from under
the 1099, but it is much better to not have to deal with it in the first
place.

 

Keith Pinster - Real Estate Investor, Vancouver, WA

 

  _____  

From: O'Day, Lili [mailto:lili at lilioday.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 8:42 AM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...

 

 

Why not do a short sale instead of a foreclosure?  The bank will take less
than is currently owed on the property and pay the cost of a Realtor and
your attorney costs to do a short sale.  If normally cost the bank about
approx $50,000 to foreclose, and they still won't get more than the property
is worth (Bill is correct the market is the market after all).  A short sale
would have less of a negative impact on your credit report long term than a
foreclosure. It's at least worth a try.  If you go this route, make sure
that the Realtor that you use has knowledge of the short sale process and
knows what they're doing, so as not to waste time..  They need to be able to
work well with the asset manager in the loss mitigation department of your
bank.

 

A lot of people are going through this.  It's a real nightmare!  Know all
your options before going forward with a forclosure.  Best of luck, 

 

Lili O'Day

Broker Associate  IL &FL

 

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5day
s.com] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:23 AM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...

Merry,

Thanks for getting back to us.

People all over the country are having the same experience you just went
through -- no one will pay anything near what the owner has in the house.
And it just gets worse.

There is nothing home-owners can do but let the banks eat the losses.

You clearly did everything you could do, and still you didn't come close to
the value the bank appraisers told you your home was worth when you took
your mortgage.

Many, many people are in the same boat, and more discover they are in this
boat every day.

The only thing that makes sense is for home owners to walk away from these
homes and mortgages, and that is what I am recommending to all who finds
themselves in the same same situation you are in.

At some point everyone will realize that ALL mortgages must be re-set to
reflect current values, and that we will all have to pay for it.  (That is
already going on in terms of bank bailouts--but the process has not fairly
reached down to homeowners who would be foolish to continue paying outsized
mortgages on homes that will not again be worth what they paid for a long
time.)

At some point inflation will kick in again, and home prices will again
return to what they were -- but that process could take a decade.  No one
can say.

In the meantime, go through the bankruptcy with the knowledge that you did
everything you could to avoid it.  The prices you were offered for your home
are the most anyone could get at this time, and you know you cannot afford
to wait for times to change.  

We will all have to rebuild our finances, and I'm sure programs will develop
to ease the rebuilding for those hardest hit.

Check in with us from time to time to let us know how you are doing.  As new
resources develop for people with "upside-down" mortgages, we will be
talking about them, and how they alter the home-selling market.  So many
people share your dilemma, this country will have to develop remedies -- and
when they do, you can be sure there will be a lot of people on this Forum
prepared to vouch for you.

Regards,

Bill Effros
Author

Merry McConnell wrote: 

Hello Bill,

The sale is over and the highest bid was too low for me to accept.  I kept
my appointment with the lawyer this morning, but on different terms.  I'm
starting the process for bankruptcy and foreclosure...and it does not feel
good.

The sale in itself was a wonderful experience.  We really felt we had at
least six serious bidders, but they all wanted to 'steal' the property
instead of buy it.  We had a total of 69 responses and
about 40 people come through.  There were 16 names on the bidding sheet and
the majority dropped off at the 120,000 mark.  

I still appreciate discovering this method for selling, because I've learned
so much through the process.  There's always a possibility that I could have
put a 'by owner' sale sign out front and 
attracted people with a different price range in their minds, because even
though I can hear you say over and over that the low bid I received is the
FMV, I feel I attracted people focused on the
109,500 I advertised.  Forgive me!  

I've run out of time and I have my friend here with me for one more week.  I
could make a last ditch effort to run another add for this weekend, but if I
do that we wouldn't be able to 'dismantle' my house and move the things out.


I'm still in disbelief that things didn't work out to at least a reasonable
closeness to the low figure I was willing to accept.  The high bid was
rediculous and I'm not willing to let someone come in on such a low figure
and benefit from my years of hard work and $$$$ worth of improvements.
I'd rather let the bank eat this one.

Thank you again, Bill...really!

Merry





On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:

Good going, Merry!

Most of the people who say they're coming back, and say they're going to
participate, will not.  Don't be discouraged by this, it doesn't matter.

You will only have 1 final buyer, and 2 others will push that buyer up to
fair market value.  All the rest are just window dressing.

The people you are talking to are real.  You are real.  The process is fair.

No matter what the final bid, proceed.

Let the high bidder negotiate with the bank -- just get out of the way, and
let both the high bidder and the bank know you are getting out of the way
before they start negotiating with each other.

Others may call after the bidding.  Send them along to the bank, too -- but
let your high bidder get the first shot at your house.

The price you are offered, even if it is much much lower than you thought it
would be, is the current fair market value.  If the bank doesn't accept that
fact, they will get to hold onto that house until they learn.  If they do
accept it, they will be able to get it, or maybe a little bit more, from
your high bidder or one of the other bidders.

In any case, you will have determined the fair market value, and sold your
home within 5 days.

And that's the whole point of this exercise.

Bill Effros
Author



Merry McConnell wrote: 

A Quick Update!

Phew!

I had 32 calls by Friday night...and this morning (Sat) the phone has been
ringing non-stop.
One person offered a cash offer but I knew better!  Thank goodness read the
book!
The house is C L E A N and de-cluttered, good smelling and all lights are
ON!  People LOVE
it and I can feel determination to own from three sets.  Oh yeah...

We (my friend and I) are having a ball...loving talking to people and
feeling comfortable with the
entire process.  Everyone says they're going in on the Round Robin - only
four signed the sheet
but others are bringing back spouses, etc.

All I know is that people are awe-struck with the place and they all 'want'
it.  

Thank you, Bill for writing this book...no matter how this works out.

I have my appt. with my lawyer for the contract signing on Monday at
10am...because I just
know I'll need it!

More Later!

Merry

 
 
 
 





  _____  



 
 
 
 
 
_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
  


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-- 
IF YOU THINK YOU CAN OR YOU THINK YOU CAN'T...YOU'RE RIGHT!  Henry Ford

 
 
 
 





  _____  



 
 
 
 
 
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From jmanny at bellsouth.net  Tue Mar 10 18:21:14 2009
From: jmanny at bellsouth.net (jmanny at bellsouth.net)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 22:21:14 +0000
Subject: [5-DayForum] Please remove me from your mailing list
In-Reply-To: <mailman.8.1236700816.6164.5-dayforum@mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Message-ID: <031020092221.13643.49B6E7D90002199D0000354B22243651029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9702020E0306@att.net>


 
 This is the second request to be removed.
Thank You
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From rickhdee at gmail.com  Tue Mar 10 21:24:48 2009
From: rickhdee at gmail.com (Rick Duffin)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 21:24:48 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Short sale
In-Reply-To: <3A52AE6E61474C468EA0BB4F60C3A6E6@keithoffice>
References: <49B685E0.8020203@effros.com>
	<E8687DEB9C959E488879896C3F6D001121698AA0@winxbeus12.exchange.xchg>
	<3A52AE6E61474C468EA0BB4F60C3A6E6@keithoffice>
Message-ID: <d690dc2c0903101824p68434e89t6ae286d844c38fa9@mail.gmail.com>

Great Reading over the last couple months.  Read the book in one night.
Makes perfect sense.  My house has been on the market for 3 months.  About
20 showings. No offers.  Listing expires in April. New post-divorce salary
takes effect this week, half my normal pay.  No way to afford house and too
much house for just me and kids on weekends.  Even if I could manage it, I
would be working more side jobs then now just to break even.  Called bank,
not really a mortgage, I just have an equity loan for the cost of the
house.  Asked about short sale, mitigation dept.  Was real nice, just told
me to fax him an offer when I get it.  I asked how long for decision, he
said just a couple days.  Sounds to good to be true.  House currently listed
for 150, I owe 162 , very hard to get comps since house is valued at
170-190+ by online sites.  Houses on my street go from mine, low at 160 I
paid, to probably 750,000 high end.  Next street over, 1 or 2 million?,
glass elevators etc.  Mine build 1935, first house in area.  Odd property -
love or hate it (My X wife obviously loved it.) Plan: No offers by
expiration on listing, do 5 day sale.  Bank can take it or leave it.  If
they refuse, offer deed in liu of forclosure.  I do not feel it is right to
stay here while in foreclosure, I signed the contract.  Mostly worried about
hit to credit.

Questions: 1
) For deed in liu, what are the odds in general and what is the credit hit.
Do they mark "Settled for less.." ?

2)  On short sale, how do you get out of paying taxes on the forgiveness.
You mention that you need to negotiate this, but don't they have to hit you
with it by law?  Anything on this in the new laws coming down?

3) Is Mitigation guy pulling my leg, saying 2 days to decide.  Bank is
Charter One, now owned by Citizens.  Loan is 20 year, 6.5% Equity Line of
Credit.  We had a regular loan but got this one 2 years ago as rate was
lower, no closing costs at all.  But is weird, not a mortgage but Equity
LIne.  Need to get paperwork to check whether is with or without recource.
(Wife removed all paperwork from home, says she threw it out, oh well)
Banker told me that they would determine what I would still have to pay
after short sale at the time they approve it.

 Lastly, tried to convince realtor to do 5day sale, very against it.  Not
worth arguing.  Should I give her another chance to help hold 5-day
sale before listing expires?  I only agreed to 4 month listing since I told
her up front I would not be able to make the mortgage payments after
that. She will also not like bank offer, they told me they usually only pay
2% commission on short sale, we have agread to 4% single, 5% dual agency.

 Current credit in very good shape, took a while to get it there and hate to
loose it, but that's life.  Thanks for the book Bill, you must put many
hours into this list.  Thanks to all you pro's and regular Joes and
Jills too for giving me an education.

On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 1:13 PM, Keith R. Pinster <keith.pinster at comcast.net
> wrote:

>  One very important thing about finding the right realtor to do a short
> sale for you is their ability to negotiate with the bank.  If they don?t
> know how (or thing that it is possible) to make sure the bank will not issue
> a 1099-C for the difference between what you owe and what the short sale
> price is, FIND A DIFFERENT REALTOR!  Sure, with a hardship you can get out
> from under the 1099, but it is much better to not have to deal with it in
> the first place.
>
>
>
> Keith Pinster ? Real Estate Investor, Vancouver, WA
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* O'Day, Lili [mailto:lili at lilioday.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 10, 2009 8:42 AM
> *To:* How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...
>
>
>
>
>
> Why not do a short sale instead of a foreclosure?  The bank will take less
> than is currently owed on the property and pay the cost of a Realtor and
> your attorney costs to do a short sale.  If normally cost the bank about
> approx $50,000 to foreclose, and they still won't get more than the property
> is worth (Bill is correct the market is the market after all).  A short sale
> would have less of a negative impact on your credit report long term than a
> foreclosure. It's at least worth a try.  If you go this route, make sure
> that the Realtor that you use has knowledge of the short sale process and
> knows what they're doing, so as not to waste time..  They need to be able to
> work well with the asset manager in the loss mitigation department of your
> bank.
>
>
>
> A lot of people are going through this.  It's a real nightmare!  Know all
> your options before going forward with a forclosure.  Best of luck,
>
>
>
> Lili O'Day
>
> Broker Associate  IL &FL
>
>
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* 5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com@
> mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili<5-dayforum-bounces%2Blili>
> =lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill
> Effros
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:23 AM
> *To:* How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...
>
> Merry,
>
> Thanks for getting back to us.
>
> People all over the country are having the same experience you just went
> through -- no one will pay anything near what the owner has in the house.
> And it just gets worse.
>
> There is nothing home-owners can do but let the banks eat the losses.
>
> You clearly did everything you could do, and still you didn't come close to
> the value the bank appraisers told you your home was worth when you took
> your mortgage.
>
> Many, many people are in the same boat, and more discover they are in this
> boat every day.
>
> The only thing that makes sense is for home owners to walk away from these
> homes and mortgages, and that is what I am recommending to all who finds
> themselves in the same same situation you are in.
>
> At some point everyone will realize that ALL mortgages must be re-set to
> reflect current values, and that we will all have to pay for it.  (That is
> already going on in terms of bank bailouts--but the process has not fairly
> reached down to homeowners who would be foolish to continue paying outsized
> mortgages on homes that will not again be worth what they paid for a long
> time.)
>
> At some point inflation will kick in again, and home prices will again
> return to what they were -- but that process could take a decade.  No one
> can say.
>
> In the meantime, go through the bankruptcy with the knowledge that you did
> everything you could to avoid it.  The prices you were offered for your home
> are the most anyone could get at this time, and you know you cannot afford
> to wait for times to change.
>
> We will all have to rebuild our finances, and I'm sure programs will
> develop to ease the rebuilding for those hardest hit.
>
> Check in with us from time to time to let us know how you are doing.  As
> new resources develop for people with "upside-down" mortgages, we will be
> talking about them, and how they alter the home-selling market.  So many
> people share your dilemma, this country will have to develop remedies -- and
> when they do, you can be sure there will be a lot of people on this Forum
> prepared to vouch for you.
>
> Regards,
>
> Bill Effros
> Author
>
> Merry McConnell wrote:
>
> Hello Bill,
>
> The sale is over and the highest bid was too low for me to accept.  I kept
> my appointment with the lawyer this morning, but on different terms.  I'm
> starting the process for bankruptcy and foreclosure...and it does not feel
> good.
>
> The sale in itself was a wonderful experience.  We really felt we had at
> least six serious bidders, but they all wanted to 'steal' the property
> instead of buy it.  We had a total of 69 responses and
> about 40 people come through.  There were 16 names on the bidding sheet and
> the majority dropped off at the 120,000 mark.
>
> I still appreciate discovering this method for selling, because I've
> learned so much through the process.  There's always a possibility that I
> could have put a 'by owner' sale sign out front and
> attracted people with a different price range in their minds, because even
> though I can hear you say over and over that the low bid I received is the
> FMV, I feel I attracted people focused on the
> 109,500 I advertised.  Forgive me!
>
> I've run out of time and I have my friend here with me for one more week.
> I could make a last ditch effort to run another add for this weekend, but if
> I do that we wouldn't be able to 'dismantle' my house and move the things
> out.
>
> I'm still in disbelief that things didn't work out to at least a reasonable
> closeness to the low figure I was willing to accept.  The high bid was
> rediculous and I'm not willing to let someone come in on such a low figure
> and benefit from my years of hard work and $$$$ worth of improvements.
> I'd rather let the bank eat this one.
>
> Thank you again, Bill...really!
>
> Merry
>
>
>
>
>
>  On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>
> Good going, Merry!
>
> Most of the people who say they're coming back, and say they're going to
> participate, will not.  Don't be discouraged by this, it doesn't matter.
>
> You will only have 1 final buyer, and 2 others will push that buyer up to
> fair market value.  All the rest are just window dressing.
>
> The people you are talking to are real.  You are real.  The process is
> fair.
>
> No matter what the final bid, proceed.
>
> Let the high bidder negotiate with the bank -- just get out of the way, and
> let both the high bidder and the bank know you are getting out of the way
> before they start negotiating with each other.
>
> Others may call after the bidding.  Send them along to the bank, too -- but
> let your high bidder get the first shot at your house.
>
> The price you are offered, even if it is much much lower than you thought
> it would be, is the current fair market value.  If the bank doesn't accept
> that fact, they will get to hold onto that house until they learn.  If they
> do accept it, they will be able to get it, or maybe a little bit more, from
> your high bidder or one of the other bidders.
>
> In any case, you will have determined the fair market value, and sold your
> home within 5 days.
>
> And that's the whole point of this exercise.
>
> Bill Effros
> Author
>
>
>
> Merry McConnell wrote:
>
> A Quick Update!
>
> Phew!
>
> I had 32 calls by Friday night...and this morning (Sat) the phone has been
> ringing non-stop.
> One person offered a cash offer but I knew better!  Thank goodness read the
> book!
> The house is C L E A N and de-cluttered, good smelling and all lights are
> ON!  People LOVE
> it and I can *feel *determination to own from three sets.  Oh yeah...
>
> We (my friend and I) are having a ball...loving talking to people and
> feeling comfortable with the
> entire process.  Everyone says they're going in on the Round Robin - only
> four signed the sheet
> but others are bringing back spouses, etc.
>
> All I know is that people are awe-struck with the place and they all 'want'
> it.
>
> Thank you, Bill for writing this book...no matter how this works out.
>
> I have my appt. with my lawyer for the contract signing on Monday at
> 10am...because I just
> *know *I'll need it!
>
> More Later!
>
> Merry
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> 5-DayForum mailing list
>
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>
>
>
> --
> IF YOU THINK YOU CAN OR YOU THINK YOU CAN'T...YOU'RE RIGHT!  Henry Ford
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> 5-DayForum mailing list
>
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
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>
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From rickhdee at gmail.com  Tue Mar 10 21:41:49 2009
From: rickhdee at gmail.com (Rick Duffin)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 21:41:49 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Short sale
In-Reply-To: <d690dc2c0903101824p68434e89t6ae286d844c38fa9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49B685E0.8020203@effros.com>
	<E8687DEB9C959E488879896C3F6D001121698AA0@winxbeus12.exchange.xchg>
	<3A52AE6E61474C468EA0BB4F60C3A6E6@keithoffice>
	<d690dc2c0903101824p68434e89t6ae286d844c38fa9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d690dc2c0903101841t18d38356q44c225e23d73dfe9@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry, I scrolled down further and read the IRS pub (Thanks Jim) on debt
forgiveness and issues on recource after sending my email.

Rick




> Questions: 1
> ) For deed in liu, what are the odds in general and what is the credit
> hit.  Do they mark "Settled for less.." ?
>
> 2)  On short sale, how do you get out of paying taxes on the forgiveness.
> You mention that you need to negotiate this, but don't they have to hit you
> with it by law?  Anything on this in the new laws coming down?  <<SEE IRS
> PUB 982>> Will be forgiven if primary and limits.
>
>
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From glendav24 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 10 23:20:29 2009
From: glendav24 at yahoo.com (V Glenda)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 20:20:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [5-DayForum] 5 Day Sale in Manhattan
Message-ID: <694561.31484.qm@web112213.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Thanks, Guy.

On another note, we've scheduled our 5 day sale on March 21-22 but we started advertising as of March 1.  We have not revealed the exact location and plan to do so the week of the sale.  We have it on the Times and Craigs List and have gotten about 100 responses both e-mail and phone calls.  I am just wondering if anyone has done this kind of sale in Manhattan on a coop?  Did you actually get the sale price you wanted if you follow the book to the T?

Would appreciate any feedback. 

Thanks,
Glenda


      
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From StructureRealty at comcast.net  Wed Mar 11 07:53:12 2009
From: StructureRealty at comcast.net (Andrew Silverberg)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 07:53:12 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Short sale
In-Reply-To: <C693E5B868D541EC8BD8A4F7DCB4E738@jamesfleming>
Message-ID: <200903111153.n2BBrB4l018826@intel1.peregrinehw.com>

Jim,

I am working with someone in Florida on a short sale and when the property
sells there will be a significant shortfall / deficiency.  The property was
purchased in a LLC formed in Fla but the Members are from Maryland, and they
personally guaranteed the loan. The Fla state law allows them to walk away?
Where can I find documentation to support that ? Thanks

 

Andrew Silverberg

Broker & Investor

Bethesda, Maryland

 

 

  _____  

From: James Fleming [mailto:jamesfleming.realestate at gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:47 PM
To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Short sale

 

Keith - 

 

An additional thing to know about Washington is that this state is a
non-recourse state.  By state law, Mortgage Lenders are prohibited from
suing borrowers for additional funds following foreclosures.  In some
states, the same is true for short sales.  There are a handful of such
"walk-away" states with anti-deficiency laws.  They are Alaska, Arizona,
California, Connecticut, Florida, Idaho, North Carolina, North Dakota, Texas
and Utah.

 

Jim Fleming

Realtor & Lecturer

 

Vancouver WA

 

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourho
mein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtose
llyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Keith R. Pinster
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:14 AM
To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Short sale

 

One very important thing about finding the right realtor to do a short sale
for you is their ability to negotiate with the bank.  If they don't know how
(or thing that it is possible) to make sure the bank will not issue a 1099-C
for the difference between what you owe and what the short sale price is,
FIND A DIFFERENT REALTOR!  Sure, with a hardship you can get out from under
the 1099, but it is much better to not have to deal with it in the first
place.

 

Keith Pinster - Real Estate Investor, Vancouver, WA

 

  _____  

From: O'Day, Lili [mailto:lili at lilioday.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 8:42 AM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...

 

 

Why not do a short sale instead of a foreclosure?  The bank will take less
than is currently owed on the property and pay the cost of a Realtor and
your attorney costs to do a short sale.  If normally cost the bank about
approx $50,000 to foreclose, and they still won't get more than the property
is worth (Bill is correct the market is the market after all).  A short sale
would have less of a negative impact on your credit report long term than a
foreclosure. It's at least worth a try.  If you go this route, make sure
that the Realtor that you use has knowledge of the short sale process and
knows what they're doing, so as not to waste time..  They need to be able to
work well with the asset manager in the loss mitigation department of your
bank.

 

A lot of people are going through this.  It's a real nightmare!  Know all
your options before going forward with a forclosure.  Best of luck, 

 

Lili O'Day

Broker Associate  IL &FL

 

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5day
s.com] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:23 AM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...

Merry,

Thanks for getting back to us.

People all over the country are having the same experience you just went
through -- no one will pay anything near what the owner has in the house.
And it just gets worse.

There is nothing home-owners can do but let the banks eat the losses.

You clearly did everything you could do, and still you didn't come close to
the value the bank appraisers told you your home was worth when you took
your mortgage.

Many, many people are in the same boat, and more discover they are in this
boat every day.

The only thing that makes sense is for home owners to walk away from these
homes and mortgages, and that is what I am recommending to all who finds
themselves in the same same situation you are in.

At some point everyone will realize that ALL mortgages must be re-set to
reflect current values, and that we will all have to pay for it.  (That is
already going on in terms of bank bailouts--but the process has not fairly
reached down to homeowners who would be foolish to continue paying outsized
mortgages on homes that will not again be worth what they paid for a long
time.)

At some point inflation will kick in again, and home prices will again
return to what they were -- but that process could take a decade.  No one
can say.

In the meantime, go through the bankruptcy with the knowledge that you did
everything you could to avoid it.  The prices you were offered for your home
are the most anyone could get at this time, and you know you cannot afford
to wait for times to change.  

We will all have to rebuild our finances, and I'm sure programs will develop
to ease the rebuilding for those hardest hit.

Check in with us from time to time to let us know how you are doing.  As new
resources develop for people with "upside-down" mortgages, we will be
talking about them, and how they alter the home-selling market.  So many
people share your dilemma, this country will have to develop remedies -- and
when they do, you can be sure there will be a lot of people on this Forum
prepared to vouch for you.

Regards,

Bill Effros
Author

Merry McConnell wrote: 

Hello Bill,

The sale is over and the highest bid was too low for me to accept.  I kept
my appointment with the lawyer this morning, but on different terms.  I'm
starting the process for bankruptcy and foreclosure...and it does not feel
good.

The sale in itself was a wonderful experience.  We really felt we had at
least six serious bidders, but they all wanted to 'steal' the property
instead of buy it.  We had a total of 69 responses and
about 40 people come through.  There were 16 names on the bidding sheet and
the majority dropped off at the 120,000 mark.  

I still appreciate discovering this method for selling, because I've learned
so much through the process.  There's always a possibility that I could have
put a 'by owner' sale sign out front and 
attracted people with a different price range in their minds, because even
though I can hear you say over and over that the low bid I received is the
FMV, I feel I attracted people focused on the
109,500 I advertised.  Forgive me!  

I've run out of time and I have my friend here with me for one more week.  I
could make a last ditch effort to run another add for this weekend, but if I
do that we wouldn't be able to 'dismantle' my house and move the things out.


I'm still in disbelief that things didn't work out to at least a reasonable
closeness to the low figure I was willing to accept.  The high bid was
rediculous and I'm not willing to let someone come in on such a low figure
and benefit from my years of hard work and $$$$ worth of improvements.
I'd rather let the bank eat this one.

Thank you again, Bill...really!

Merry





On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:

Good going, Merry!

Most of the people who say they're coming back, and say they're going to
participate, will not.  Don't be discouraged by this, it doesn't matter.

You will only have 1 final buyer, and 2 others will push that buyer up to
fair market value.  All the rest are just window dressing.

The people you are talking to are real.  You are real.  The process is fair.

No matter what the final bid, proceed.

Let the high bidder negotiate with the bank -- just get out of the way, and
let both the high bidder and the bank know you are getting out of the way
before they start negotiating with each other.

Others may call after the bidding.  Send them along to the bank, too -- but
let your high bidder get the first shot at your house.

The price you are offered, even if it is much much lower than you thought it
would be, is the current fair market value.  If the bank doesn't accept that
fact, they will get to hold onto that house until they learn.  If they do
accept it, they will be able to get it, or maybe a little bit more, from
your high bidder or one of the other bidders.

In any case, you will have determined the fair market value, and sold your
home within 5 days.

And that's the whole point of this exercise.

Bill Effros
Author



Merry McConnell wrote: 

A Quick Update!

Phew!

I had 32 calls by Friday night...and this morning (Sat) the phone has been
ringing non-stop.
One person offered a cash offer but I knew better!  Thank goodness read the
book!
The house is C L E A N and de-cluttered, good smelling and all lights are
ON!  People LOVE
it and I can feel determination to own from three sets.  Oh yeah...

We (my friend and I) are having a ball...loving talking to people and
feeling comfortable with the
entire process.  Everyone says they're going in on the Round Robin - only
four signed the sheet
but others are bringing back spouses, etc.

All I know is that people are awe-struck with the place and they all 'want'
it.  

Thank you, Bill for writing this book...no matter how this works out.

I have my appt. with my lawyer for the contract signing on Monday at
10am...because I just
know I'll need it!

More Later!

Merry

 
 
 
 





  _____  



 
 
 
 
 
_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
  


_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum




-- 
IF YOU THINK YOU CAN OR YOU THINK YOU CAN'T...YOU'RE RIGHT!  Henry Ford

 
 
 
 





  _____  



 
 
 
 
 
_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
  
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From damian_colden at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 11 08:15:40 2009
From: damian_colden at yahoo.com (Damian Colden)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 05:15:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [5-DayForum] Short sale
References: <200903111153.n2BBrB4l018826@intel1.peregrinehw.com>
Message-ID: <327857.47274.qm@web53204.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Andrew - 

Most of the discussion on this topic has been as it may relate to homeowners selling their primary residence. Your clients appear to have an investment property. This client should seek compete advice from a FL CPA and/or lawyer that specializes in this area of tax/finance/real estate.


Dac Colden
The KatieDidIt! Team
Keller Williams Realty
Grand Blanc, MI




________________________________
From: Andrew Silverberg <StructureRealty at comcast.net>
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 7:53:12 AM
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Short sale

 
Jim,
I am working with someone in Florida on a short sale
and when the property sells there will be a significant shortfall /
deficiency.  The property was purchased in a LLC formed in Fla but the Members are from Maryland , and they personally guaranteed the
loan. The Fla 
state law allows them to walk away?  Where can I find documentation to
support that ? Thanks
 
Andrew Silverberg
Broker & Investor
Bethesda, Maryland
 
 

________________________________
 
From:James Fleming [mailto:jamesfleming.realestate at gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:47
PM
To: 'How To Sell Your Home in
5-Days'
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Short
sale
 
Keith ? 
 
An additional thing to know about Washington is that this
state is a non-recourse state.  By state law, Mortgage Lenders are prohibited
from suing borrowers for additional funds following foreclosures.  In some
states, the same is true for short sales.  There are a handful of such
?walk-away? states with anti-deficiency laws.  They are Alaska , Arizona , California , Connecticut , Florida , Idaho , North Carolina , North Dakota , Texas and Utah .
 
Jim Fleming
Realtor & Lecturer
 
VancouverWA
 
 

________________________________
 
From:5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Keith R. Pinster
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009
10:14 AM
To: 'How To Sell Your Home in
5-Days'
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Short
sale
 
One very important thing about finding the
right realtor to do a short sale for you is their ability to negotiate with the
bank.  If they don?t know how (or thing that it is possible) to make
sure the bank will not issue a 1099-C for the difference between what you owe
and what the short sale price is, FIND A DIFFERENT REALTOR!  Sure, with a
hardship you can get out from under the 1099, but it is much better to not have
to deal with it in the first place.
 
Keith Pinster ? Real Estate
Investor, Vancouver , WA
 

________________________________
 
From:O'Day, Lili [mailto:lili at lilioday.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 8:42
AM
To: How To Sell Your Home in
5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...
 
 
Why not do a short sale instead of a
foreclosure?  The bank will take less than is currently owed on the property
and pay the cost of a Realtor and your attorney costs to do a short sale. 
If normally cost the bank about approx $50,000 to foreclose, and they still
won't get more than the property is worth (Bill is correct the market is the
market after all).  A short sale would have less of a negative impact on
your credit report long term than a foreclosure. It's at least worth a
try.  If you go this route, make sure that the Realtor that you use has
knowledge of the short sale process and knows what they're doing, so as not to
waste time..  They need to be able to work well with the asset manager in
the loss mitigation department of your bank.
 
A lot of people are going through this.  It's a
real nightmare!  Know all your options before going forward with a forclosure. 
Best of luck, 
 
Lili O'Day
Broker Associate  IL &FL
 
 

________________________________
 
From:5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009
10:23 AM
To: How To Sell Your Home in
5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...
Merry,

Thanks for getting back to us.

People all over the country are having the same experience you just went
through -- no one will pay anything near what the owner has in the house. And
it just gets worse.

There is nothing home-owners can do but let the banks eat the losses.

You clearly did everything you could do, and still you didn't come close to the
value the bank appraisers told you your home was worth when you took your
mortgage.

Many, many people are in the same boat, and more discover they are in this boat
every day.

The only thing that makes sense is for home owners to walk away from these
homes and mortgages, and that is what I am recommending to all who finds
themselves in the same same situation you are in.

At some point everyone will realize that ALL mortgages must be re-set to
reflect current values, and that we will all have to pay for it.  (That is
already going on in terms of bank bailouts--but the process has not fairly
reached down to homeowners who would be foolish to continue paying outsized
mortgages on homes that will not again be worth what they paid for a long
time.)

At some point inflation will kick in again, and home prices will again return
to what they were -- but that process could take a decade.  No one can
say.

In the meantime, go through the bankruptcy with the knowledge that you did
everything you could to avoid it.  The prices you were offered for your
home are the most anyone could get at this time, and you know you cannot afford
to wait for times to change.  

We will all have to rebuild our finances, and I'm sure programs will develop to
ease the rebuilding for those hardest hit.

Check in with us from time to time to let us know how you are doing.  As
new resources develop for people with "upside-down" mortgages, we
will be talking about them, and how they alter the home-selling market. 
So many people share your dilemma, this country will have to develop remedies
-- and when they do, you can be sure there will be a lot of people on this
Forum prepared to vouch for you.

Regards,

Bill Effros
Author

Merry McConnell wrote: 
Hello Bill,

The sale is over and the highest bid was too low for me to accept.  I kept
my appointment with the lawyer this morning, but on different terms.  I'm
starting the process for bankruptcy and foreclosure...and it does not feel
good.

The sale in itself was a wonderful experience.  We really felt we had at
least six serious bidders, but they all wanted to 'steal' the property instead
of buy it.  We had a total of 69 responses and
about 40 people come through.  There were 16 names on the bidding sheet
and the majority dropped off at the 120,000 mark.  

I still appreciate discovering this method for selling, because I've learned so
much through the process.  There's always a possibility that I could have
put a 'by owner' sale sign out front and 
attracted people with a different price range in their minds, because even
though I can hear you say over and over that the low bid I received is the FMV,
I feel I attracted people focused on the
109,500 I advertised.  Forgive me!  

I've run out of time and I have my friend here with me for one more week. 
I could make a last ditch effort to run another add for this weekend, but if I
do that we wouldn't be able to 'dismantle' my house and move the things
out.  

I'm still in disbelief that things didn't work out to at least a reasonable
closeness to the low figure I was willing to accept.  The high bid was
rediculous and I'm not willing to let someone come in on such a low figure and
benefit from my years of hard work and $$$$ worth of improvements.
I'd rather let the bank eat this one.

Thank you again, Bill...really!

Merry




On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
wrote:
Good going, Merry!

Most of the people who say they're coming back, and say they're going to
participate, will not.  Don't be discouraged by this, it doesn't matter.

You will only have 1 final buyer, and 2 others will push that buyer up to fair
market value.  All the rest are just window dressing.

The people you are talking to are real.  You are real.  The process
is fair.

No matter what the final bid, proceed.

Let the high bidder negotiate with the bank -- just get out of the way, and let
both the high bidder and the bank know you are getting out of the way before
they start negotiating with each other.

Others may call after the bidding.  Send them along to the bank, too --
but let your high bidder get the first shot at your house.

The price you are offered, even if it is much much lower than you thought it
would be, is the current fair market value.  If the bank doesn't accept
that fact, they will get to hold onto that house until they learn.  If
they do accept it, they will be able to get it, or maybe a little bit more,
from your high bidder or one of the other bidders.

In any case, you will have determined the fair market value, and sold your home
within 5 days.

And that's the whole point of this exercise.

Bill Effros
Author



Merry McConnell wrote: 
A Quick Update!

Phew!

I had 32 calls by Friday night...and this morning (Sat) the phone has been
ringing non-stop.
One person offered a cash offer but I knew better!  Thank goodness read
the book!
The house is C L E A N and de-cluttered, good smelling and all lights are
ON!  People LOVE
it and I can feel determination
to own from three sets.  Oh yeah...

We (my friend and I) are having a ball...loving talking to people and feeling
comfortable with the
entire process.  Everyone says they're going in on the Round Robin - only
four signed the sheet
but others are bringing back spouses, etc.

All I know is that people are awe-struck with the place and they all 'want'
it.  

Thank you, Bill for writing this book...no matter how this works out.

I have my appt. with my lawyer for the contract signing on Monday at
10am...because I just
know I'll need it!

More Later!

Merry
  
  
  
  

________________________________
 

  
  
  
  
  
_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
  

_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum



-- 
IF YOU THINK YOU CAN OR YOU THINK YOU CAN'T...YOU'RE RIGHT!  Henry Ford
  
  
  
  

________________________________
 

  
  
  
  
  
_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum


      
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From nkhouri at cfl.rr.com  Wed Mar 11 08:22:25 2009
From: nkhouri at cfl.rr.com (Naji)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 08:22:25 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Short sale
In-Reply-To: <200903111153.n2BBrB4l018826@intel1.peregrinehw.com>
References: <C693E5B868D541EC8BD8A4F7DCB4E738@jamesfleming>
	<200903111153.n2BBrB4l018826@intel1.peregrinehw.com>
Message-ID: <B93A9BBE92E94D16B502A05F353387DA@NSKHome>

Title XL Chapter 702 of Florida Statutes regarding foreclosures:

 

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute
<http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=
Ch0702/titl0702.htm&StatuteYear=2008&Title=%2D%3E2008%2D%3EChapter%20702>
&URL=Ch0702/titl0702.htm&StatuteYear=2008&Title=%2D%3E2008%2D%3EChapter%2070
2

 

Also, the lender "may" sue for deficiency judgment as Florida laws do allow
for deficiency judgment:

 

http://www.foreclosurelaw.org/Florida_Foreclosure_Law.htm

 

Have them seek legal and tax advice as they probably will be zinged with
income taxes for the forgiven amount since the property is not a primary
residence.

 

-Naji

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Silverberg
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 7:53 AM
To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Short sale

 

Jim,

I am working with someone in Florida on a short sale and when the property
sells there will be a significant shortfall / deficiency.  The property was
purchased in a LLC formed in Fla but the Members are from Maryland, and they
personally guaranteed the loan. The Fla state law allows them to walk away?
Where can I find documentation to support that ? Thanks

 

Andrew Silverberg

Broker & Investor

Bethesda, Maryland

 

 

  _____  

From: James Fleming [mailto:jamesfleming.realestate at gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:47 PM
To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Short sale

 

Keith - 

 

An additional thing to know about Washington is that this state is a
non-recourse state.  By state law, Mortgage Lenders are prohibited from
suing borrowers for additional funds following foreclosures.  In some
states, the same is true for short sales.  There are a handful of such
"walk-away" states with anti-deficiency laws.  They are Alaska, Arizona,
California, Connecticut, Florida, Idaho, North Carolina, North Dakota, Texas
and Utah.

 

Jim Fleming

Realtor & Lecturer

 

Vancouver WA

 

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourho
mein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtose
llyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Keith R. Pinster
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:14 AM
To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Short sale

 

One very important thing about finding the right realtor to do a short sale
for you is their ability to negotiate with the bank.  If they don't know how
(or thing that it is possible) to make sure the bank will not issue a 1099-C
for the difference between what you owe and what the short sale price is,
FIND A DIFFERENT REALTOR!  Sure, with a hardship you can get out from under
the 1099, but it is much better to not have to deal with it in the first
place.

 

Keith Pinster - Real Estate Investor, Vancouver, WA

 

  _____  

From: O'Day, Lili [mailto:lili at lilioday.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 8:42 AM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...

 

 

Why not do a short sale instead of a foreclosure?  The bank will take less
than is currently owed on the property and pay the cost of a Realtor and
your attorney costs to do a short sale.  If normally cost the bank about
approx $50,000 to foreclose, and they still won't get more than the property
is worth (Bill is correct the market is the market after all).  A short sale
would have less of a negative impact on your credit report long term than a
foreclosure. It's at least worth a try.  If you go this route, make sure
that the Realtor that you use has knowledge of the short sale process and
knows what they're doing, so as not to waste time..  They need to be able to
work well with the asset manager in the loss mitigation department of your
bank.

 

A lot of people are going through this.  It's a real nightmare!  Know all
your options before going forward with a forclosure.  Best of luck, 

 

Lili O'Day

Broker Associate  IL &FL

 

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5day
s.com] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:23 AM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...

Merry,

Thanks for getting back to us.

People all over the country are having the same experience you just went
through -- no one will pay anything near what the owner has in the house.
And it just gets worse.

There is nothing home-owners can do but let the banks eat the losses.

You clearly did everything you could do, and still you didn't come close to
the value the bank appraisers told you your home was worth when you took
your mortgage.

Many, many people are in the same boat, and more discover they are in this
boat every day.

The only thing that makes sense is for home owners to walk away from these
homes and mortgages, and that is what I am recommending to all who finds
themselves in the same same situation you are in.

At some point everyone will realize that ALL mortgages must be re-set to
reflect current values, and that we will all have to pay for it.  (That is
already going on in terms of bank bailouts--but the process has not fairly
reached down to homeowners who would be foolish to continue paying outsized
mortgages on homes that will not again be worth what they paid for a long
time.)

At some point inflation will kick in again, and home prices will again
return to what they were -- but that process could take a decade.  No one
can say.

In the meantime, go through the bankruptcy with the knowledge that you did
everything you could to avoid it.  The prices you were offered for your home
are the most anyone could get at this time, and you know you cannot afford
to wait for times to change.  

We will all have to rebuild our finances, and I'm sure programs will develop
to ease the rebuilding for those hardest hit.

Check in with us from time to time to let us know how you are doing.  As new
resources develop for people with "upside-down" mortgages, we will be
talking about them, and how they alter the home-selling market.  So many
people share your dilemma, this country will have to develop remedies -- and
when they do, you can be sure there will be a lot of people on this Forum
prepared to vouch for you.

Regards,

Bill Effros
Author

Merry McConnell wrote: 

Hello Bill,

The sale is over and the highest bid was too low for me to accept.  I kept
my appointment with the lawyer this morning, but on different terms.  I'm
starting the process for bankruptcy and foreclosure...and it does not feel
good.

The sale in itself was a wonderful experience.  We really felt we had at
least six serious bidders, but they all wanted to 'steal' the property
instead of buy it.  We had a total of 69 responses and
about 40 people come through.  There were 16 names on the bidding sheet and
the majority dropped off at the 120,000 mark.  

I still appreciate discovering this method for selling, because I've learned
so much through the process.  There's always a possibility that I could have
put a 'by owner' sale sign out front and 
attracted people with a different price range in their minds, because even
though I can hear you say over and over that the low bid I received is the
FMV, I feel I attracted people focused on the
109,500 I advertised.  Forgive me!  

I've run out of time and I have my friend here with me for one more week.  I
could make a last ditch effort to run another add for this weekend, but if I
do that we wouldn't be able to 'dismantle' my house and move the things out.


I'm still in disbelief that things didn't work out to at least a reasonable
closeness to the low figure I was willing to accept.  The high bid was
rediculous and I'm not willing to let someone come in on such a low figure
and benefit from my years of hard work and $$$$ worth of improvements.
I'd rather let the bank eat this one.

Thank you again, Bill...really!

Merry




On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:

Good going, Merry!

Most of the people who say they're coming back, and say they're going to
participate, will not.  Don't be discouraged by this, it doesn't matter.

You will only have 1 final buyer, and 2 others will push that buyer up to
fair market value.  All the rest are just window dressing.

The people you are talking to are real.  You are real.  The process is fair.

No matter what the final bid, proceed.

Let the high bidder negotiate with the bank -- just get out of the way, and
let both the high bidder and the bank know you are getting out of the way
before they start negotiating with each other.

Others may call after the bidding.  Send them along to the bank, too -- but
let your high bidder get the first shot at your house.

The price you are offered, even if it is much much lower than you thought it
would be, is the current fair market value.  If the bank doesn't accept that
fact, they will get to hold onto that house until they learn.  If they do
accept it, they will be able to get it, or maybe a little bit more, from
your high bidder or one of the other bidders.

In any case, you will have determined the fair market value, and sold your
home within 5 days.

And that's the whole point of this exercise.

Bill Effros
Author



Merry McConnell wrote: 

A Quick Update!

Phew!

I had 32 calls by Friday night...and this morning (Sat) the phone has been
ringing non-stop.
One person offered a cash offer but I knew better!  Thank goodness read the
book!
The house is C L E A N and de-cluttered, good smelling and all lights are
ON!  People LOVE
it and I can feel determination to own from three sets.  Oh yeah...

We (my friend and I) are having a ball...loving talking to people and
feeling comfortable with the
entire process.  Everyone says they're going in on the Round Robin - only
four signed the sheet
but others are bringing back spouses, etc.

All I know is that people are awe-struck with the place and they all 'want'
it.  

Thank you, Bill for writing this book...no matter how this works out.

I have my appt. with my lawyer for the contract signing on Monday at
10am...because I just
know I'll need it!

More Later!

Merry

 
 
 
 
 
 





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-- 
IF YOU THINK YOU CAN OR YOU THINK YOU CAN'T...YOU'RE RIGHT!  Henry Ford

 
 
 
 
 
 





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From investments at foreclosurescanada.com  Tue Mar 10 23:18:22 2009
From: investments at foreclosurescanada.com (Wade Fenner)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 21:18:22 -0600
Subject: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker
References: <80D244F41801405CA51CFC6CA4752F36@NSKHome><17DB3D6863FC46918ABC03B6AFA6A494@Main><9631F7563E2E46FDBD0B31464B83A86D@NSKHome><663316.14472.qm@web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com><9735E643D89246ADA470C42B4D484250@jamesfleming><BED67CC8F69342C08B53ACD4CE228990@NSKHome><DD98F4ED8AF64FB7AA5A8D92D488BB67@Main>
	<2CB989CA9B12466689C589FD5E0C028B@NSKHome>
Message-ID: <19788BD6936B43D197C5BF83E92637B5@owner92923b38f>

Naji & Your Reator Friend,

I joined this forum to learn about people's experience with the 5 Day Sale format

Not to listen to you two squabble .....

Please take your debate some place else and out of my inbox.

Thank-you,

Wade Fenner
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Naji 
  To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days' 
  Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 8:01 PM
  Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker


  -          Correction. I know exactly what I'm talking about. Usually a nerve is struck when the truth is told. 

  -          No BS here, just facts. Read the Nine Pillars of The Citadel first or a paper by Mark S. Nadel http://aei-brookings.org/admin/authorpdfs/redirect-safely.php?fname=../pdffiles/phpXf.pdf

  -          No problem with ALL realtors. Problem with a broken monopolistic model.

  -          No bone to pick and No envy

  -          I wouldn't call an agent to show me a property unless they charge a flat fee for their service just as I would only use a financial advisor that only charges a flat fee as well. BTW, I use an agent that simply charges a FLAT FEE for their FULL SERVICE every time I buy an investment property or any other property. Why you may ask? Because they only charge $2,995 and rebate the difference when a commission is offered

  -          No, you did not hit a nerve, but thank you for asking

  -          Incorrect again. When I decide to purchase a property, it's purely from an investment point of view... If the price is right and it makes sense financially, then I move forward. It's doesn't matter if it's FSBO, REO, MLS, SS, or any other type it may be.

   

  As Upton Sinclair said "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on him not understanding it."

   

  -Naji

   

   


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  From: 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Don Lynch
  Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 9:33 PM
  To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
  Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

   

  Naji, You HAVE struck a nerve because you don't know what you are talking about. The BS is spewing from where you stand. Again, I don't know what your problem with realtor's is (full service or otherwise) but I do know you have some kind of bone to pick, maybe some kind of envy. I bet you would have no trouble calling an agent to glean as much information about a property and even have him show it to you, and then turn around and circumvent him/her. Did I hit a nerve? Another question...when you are looking for a property to buy and you find out it is a FSBO do you automatically in your mind subtract 6% from the offer? I'll bet you do.

   

  Signed, an honest hard working (with no conflict of interest, perceived or otherwise) realtor

    ----- Original Message ----- 

    From: Naji 

    To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days' 

    Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 9:21 PM

    Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

     

    Jim,

     

    Obviously I hit a sensitive nerve with many Realtors on this issue. You and I know that in the Realtors world, it's all about protecting the commission, period. So, let's not fool ourselves with the standard NAR BS and scare tactics that's been circulating for many decades. The big stock brokerage firms used to say the same thing about the E-Trade's and Ameritrade's of the world. where are Bear Stearns and Merrill Lynch today? Same thing was said about Wal-Mart, Amazon.com, Google, and many more industry leaders that decided to get away from the antiquated business as usual model. 

     

    Regarding conflict of interest. It doesn't matter how many laws are written, or how many disclosures are signed, a conflict of interest automatically exists. You don't get paid unless the house sells. Therefore, whether a sale is a good move or a bad move for the buyer or seller, it doesn't matter because you don't get paid if the sale doesn't close. I know this is difficult to understand, but I think Author Upton Sinclair explains it best "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on him not understanding it."

     

    Did you read Nine Pillars of the Citadel?

     

    Every monopoly will eventually be broken. The stranglehold of the NAR will as well.. The sooner the average American consumer gets educated the sooner this will happen.

     

    Best regards,

     

    -Naji

     


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of James Fleming
    Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 8:12 PM
    To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
    Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

     

    Thank you Lauri for your posting.  I agree with you that the portrayal of doctors and lawyers as professionals who charge simple flat fees is incorrect.  Anyone who has ever worked at a law firm or medical facility knows better.  Anyone who has ever had serious legal or medical bills knows better.  

     

    Furthermore, lawyers and doctors are not paid based on results.  Whether a lawyer wins or loses, you pay.  Whether a doctor heals you or not, you pay.  They get paid handsomely whether they succeed or fail.  It would be difficult to design an arrangement more laden with potential conflict of interest issues.  If you doubt this, just look at the amount of mal-practice and E & O coverage that these professions carry.  

     

    Naji, to emphasize the inequity of a 6% Realtor commission, states that "If a doctor, attorney, plumber, or iron worker was to charge 6% of the average American's largest asset, I would not use them either."  Sounds compelling until you really think about it.  What doctors and lawyers (I'm leaving out plumbers and iron workers because, in my opinion, they were included to make a point but really have no place in the argument) charge is often several times more than 100% of the average Americans largest asset.  Think about it.  How many bankruptcies are filed every day by average Americans because of medical and/or legal bills?  Actually, it might eliminate a large percentage of bankruptcy filings if we could limit our medical/legal bills to 6% of our most valuable asset in the event of major health and legal issues.  I like it.

     

    Turning to conflicts of interest, the laws of agency in real estate transactions were written largely for the purpose of eliminating conflicts of interest.  These laws now apply in every state.  In practice today, Realtors either represent sellers or they represent buyers.  The exception to this occurs when the Realtor acts as a "dual agent".   In instances of dual agency, however, the Realtor must act neutrally.  S/he may not advocate for either party, but instead must simply conduct that transaction at the direction of both being careful not to be pulled into conflicts of interest along the way.  If one comes up, it must be disclosed to both parties.

     

    Naji, however, points to a few examples of conflicts of interest that are different from above.  I'd like to address a couple of them.  Naji mentions, for example, "If you're not charging a FLAT FEE for your services, you automatically have a built-in conflict of interest, period!! Just like the financial advisor that doesn't charge a flat fee, the car salesperson, the annuity agent, etc."  I would suggest that whether any of these people are paid on a commission or on a flat fee basis, their job is to sell you products and services.  Your job as the buyer is to make informed decisions.  The sales people do not represent you, the buyer, in any of these examples.  If Naji's point is that the sales person will try to sell the product or service that pays the most commission, then again, it is up to the buyer to sort through this and make an informed decision.

     

    The advantage in real estate is that you can have an advocate whether you are a buyer or a seller.  Seller's agents manage their listings with the goal of pricing them properly and marketing them extensively.  They never know what the mix of buyers is at any point in time.  When a buyer comes along, they do everything they can to promote the best interests of their client - the seller.  Equally, when a buyer's agent presents an offer on behalf of a client, it is the buyer's interests that the agent promotes above all.  Each of these agents has a fiduciary responsibility to their respective client.  This is true whether your Realtor is working for a flat fee or for a commission.

     

    As a practical consideration, many flat fee brokerages are what are called "limited service" brokerages.  In other words, they offer a menu of services from which their clients can choose.  Clients only pay for what they get.  For example, the brokerage may have one fee for listing your property in the MLS, another for placing a sign in your yard, another for flyers, another for a lockbox, another for advertising online, another for showing your property to buyers, another for conducting open houses, yet another for negotiating the sale with the buyer's agent, and so on.  Generally, firms with this approach find it hard to stay in business as evidenced by the recent (and third) bankruptcy filing of Help-U-Sell.  They tend to appeal to uninformed first- time sellers or financially strapped sellers who are desperate and don't know what they don't know.  

     

    These two groups of sellers typically believe that real estate agents are paid too much for the services they provide.  They typically argue their point by using hypothetical comparisons. They point to the associated costs of sales made with and without full service Realtors.  They either point to the increased money that one can make if a Realtor is excluded from the equation, or the decreased amount they can get for their house while still making the same net amount if they had sold it for more using a Realtor.  In the abstract, the same argument can be made for representing yourself in court, or doing your own dental fillings.  In the real world, however, ALL of life's issues come into play.  People, who make decisions based upon hypothetical or artificial constructs, greatly increase their chances of unintended consequences.  Unfortunately, these are often the same people who, as kids, had to discover for themselves the perils of touching a hot stove.

     

    Jim Fleming, Realtor and Lecturer

    Vancouver, WA

     

     


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: 5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Soak Up the Sun
    Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 2:21 PM
    To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
    Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

     

    I don't usually have a lot to say on the forums, however, I read all the posts.
    I have to say, if you think Doctors and Lawyers charge flat fees, you are sorely mistaken.
    I'm glad that you are happy with the flat fee real estate person that you are using, and hope that they continue to meet your needs.
    Lauri

     


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: Naji <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>
    To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
    Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 11:38:02 AM
    Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

    Dear PO 'd Realtor,

     

    I don't have a problem with ALL Realtors. I have a problem with Realtors that charge a commission due to the built-in conflict of interest. I will continue to use Realtors that charge a fair FLAT FEE for their services.

     

    -          Doctors - No commissions

    -          Attorneys - No commissions

    -          Plumbers - No commissions

    -          Iron Workers - No commissions

    -          Etc.

     

    If a doctor, attorney, plumber, or iron worker was to charge 6% of the average American's largest asset, I would not use them either. As for the MLS, the cost associated with using the MLS is minimal for any licensed real estate agent, plus you don't have to be part of NAR or Local Realtor Association to have access to MLS. Additionally, gathering all the "information" you are talking about takes minutes online.

     

    If you're not charging a FLAT FEE for your services, you automatically have a built-in conflict of interest, period!! Just like the financial advisor that doesn't charge a flat fee, the car salesperson, the annuity agent, etc.

     

    My agent charges a FLAT FEE (Full service agent) of 2,995 regardless of the sale price. Which means, that she gets 2,995 for a house that sells for 200K or 2Million whether she finds the buyer or another agent finds the buyer. Hence, NO CONFLICT OF INTEREST and every home gets the same amount of HARD WORK!!

     

    Best wishes,

     

    -Naji

     

     

     

     


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Don Lynch
    Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:16 PM
    To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
    Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

     

    I don't know what your problem  is with realtors. Maybe you need to team up with Obama and go after doctors, lawyers, plumbers, iron workers, etc. etc. If you don't like realtors...DON'T USE THEM! And I don't know where you get your figures from because I work my butt off to makeover $50k....it isn't as easy as you think. MLS is a proprietary system set up for realtors. If you want access to sales  go to the tax records and assemble the info yourself...this work and effort is not FREE! Again, if you think realtors are ripping you off, don't use them.

     

    Signed, a hard working honest realtor...

      ----- Original Message ----- 

      From: Naji 

      To: 5-dayforum at howtosellyourhomein5days.com 

      Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:03 PM

      Subject: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker

       

      Good article regarding the NAR and their monopolistic hold. This was written in 2005 and many laws and lawsuits against the NAR have been won since then that have changed a few things but much more needs to be done to have a fair system:

       

      http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/public/workshops/rewcom/213351.htm

       

       

       

       

       


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    Donald C. Lynch
    500 Smokey Hollow Drive
    Waxhaw , NC 28173
    (704) 843-1392 - Office
    (704) 243-3971 - fax
    (407) 257-7845 - cell
    (800) 880-7845
    (704) 843-8325 - home
    dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
    http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/


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    5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
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  Donald C. Lynch
  500 Smokey Hollow Drive
  Waxhaw, NC 28173
  (704) 843-1392 - Office
  (704) 243-3971 - fax
  (407) 257-7845 - cell
  (800) 880-7845
  (704) 843-8325 - home
  dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
  http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/



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From bill at effros.com  Wed Mar 11 11:02:09 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 11:02:09 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] 5 Day Sale in Manhattan
In-Reply-To: <694561.31484.qm@web112213.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <694561.31484.qm@web112213.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49B7D271.2050709@effros.com>

Glenda,

I've sold co-ops in NYC for years.

You are defeating yourself by advertising early.

You can never get the sale price you want if you want more than the 
market says your co-op is currently worth.

I always got more than I expected because I had reasonable expectations 
for the market I was selling into, and ran my 5-Day sale exactly as 
described in the book.

Bill Effros
Author

V Glenda wrote:
> Thanks, Guy.
>
> On another note, we've scheduled our 5 day sale on March 21-22 but we 
> started advertising as of March 1.  We have not revealed the exact 
> location and plan to do so the week of the sale.  We have it on the 
> Times and Craigs List and have gotten about 100 responses both e-mail 
> and phone calls.  I am just wondering if anyone has done this kind of 
> sale in Manhattan on a coop?  Did you actually get the sale price you 
> wanted if you follow the book to the T?
>
> Would appreciate any feedback. 
>
> Thanks,
> Glenda
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
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From mnorris at mutualdata.com  Sun Mar  8 15:15:08 2009
From: mnorris at mutualdata.com (Mike Norris)
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 15:15:08 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] commerical property
Message-ID: <AEFF17FF9D8241E9941CFB9F9B39CC3C@MNorrisPC>

I have a 1300 square commerical building which was a barber/beauty shop, but could be used for office or small retail. It is in rural small town in Michigan (population 2300). 

I own it free and clear. Do you think the 5 Day plan would work for selling this business. 

Please respond to mnorris358 at yahoo.com. as my mutualdata in coming mail server is not working.

thanks
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From tgarter at comcast.net  Wed Mar 11 11:26:14 2009
From: tgarter at comcast.net (tgarter at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 15:26:14 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [5-DayForum] 5 Day Sale in Manhattan
In-Reply-To: <1396978700.2538241236784137160.JavaMail.root@sz0064a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1842863160.2546921236785174015.JavaMail.root@sz0064a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>


Glenda, 
Bill is definitely the expert, but I am a little thick I guess. As long as you aren't giving out the address, I don't see what's wrong in accumulating names of people that you can contact when the sale weekend arrives. Bill said this is a big waste of time and unlikely that you will find the ultimate buyer in this group. I understand it is extra work, but if you are willing to do it, you might just add some serious people to your open house who might otherwise miss the 5 day advertising. I'm thinking of is as a way to enhance my advertising, not a way to cheat the system. 
Tom Garter (owner, soon to be 5 day sale operator) 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com> 
To: "How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days" <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com> 
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 11:02:09 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern 
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] 5 Day Sale in Manhattan 

Glenda, 

I've sold co-ops in NYC for years. 

You are defeating yourself by advertising early. 

You can never get the sale price you want if you want more than the market says your co-op is currently worth. 

I always got more than I expected because I had reasonable expectations for the market I was selling into, and ran my 5-Day sale exactly as described in the book. 

Bill Effros 
Author 

V Glenda wrote: 



Thanks, Guy. 


On another note, we've scheduled our 5 day sale on March 21-22 but we started advertising as of March 1. We have not revealed the exact location and plan to do so the week of the sale. We have it on the Times and Craigs List and have gotten about 100 responses both e-mail and phone calls. I am just wondering if anyone has done this kind of sale in Manhattan on a coop? Did you actually get the sale price you wanted if you follow the book to the T? 


Would appreciate any feedback. 


Thanks, 
Glenda 

_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum 
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From bill at effros.com  Wed Mar 11 12:10:07 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 12:10:07 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] 5 Day Sale in Manhattan
In-Reply-To: <1842863160.2546921236785174015.JavaMail.root@sz0064a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
References: <1842863160.2546921236785174015.JavaMail.root@sz0064a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <49B7E25F.50101@effros.com>

Tom,

Out of 20 million people who can easily view Glenda's advertising and 
show up at the co-op, only 1 is going to be offered the property.

That one is surely looking in the NYT and on Craig's list the Wednesday 
before the sale.

Glenda already knows the advertised price and the tested media are 
sufficient to attract that one, along with enough others to ensure the 
bidding will reach fair market value.

How will Glenda find that one if hundreds show up over a 2 day period?  
How can Glenda be sure the best one won't lose interest over time and 
not show up at all?  How can Glenda know if 100 responding over several 
weeks equals the same enthusiasm as 25 responding in 3 days?  (Certainly 
Glenda already knows there won't be an AVERAGE of 8 1/3 responses over a 
21 day period -- and there probably won't be 25 ADDITIONAL responses 
between Wednesday and Friday.)

There is absolutely no trick to getting 25 responses between Wednesday 
and Friday of any week in any place for any residential property if that 
property has any current market value at all, and you have advertised at 
50% of its current market value in the right places.  There are always 3 
real buyers for such a property, and you can know if they know your home 
will be available as of Sunday night to the high bidder if you place 
your ad on a Wednesday and get 25 responses by Friday night.

Getting 150 responses over a 3 week period in a market like NYC does not 
let you know the real buyers will show up over the weekend you have 
selected.  It does not help your sale in any way, or get you a higher 
selling price.  It muddies the waters for both you and the real buyers.  
It is counterproductive.

You are not thick.  I have been unable to adequately explain this for 
more than 20 years--but I keep trying.  Maybe I'm a little thick.

Bill Effros
Author



tgarter at comcast.net wrote:
> Glenda,
> Bill is definitely the expert, but I am a little thick I guess.  As 
> long as you aren't giving out the address, I don't see what's wrong in 
> accumulating names of people that you can contact when the sale 
> weekend arrives.  Bill said this is a big waste of time and unlikely 
> that you will find the ultimate buyer in this group.  I understand it 
> is extra work, but if you are willing to do it, you might just add 
> some serious people to your open house who might otherwise miss the 5 
> day advertising.   I'm thinking of is as a way to enhance my 
> advertising, not a way to cheat the system.
> Tom Garter (owner, soon to be 5 day sale operator)
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
> To: "How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days" 
> <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 11:02:09 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
> Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] 5 Day Sale in Manhattan
>
> Glenda,
>
> I've sold co-ops in NYC for years.
>
> You are defeating yourself by advertising early.
>
> You can never get the sale price you want if you want more than the 
> market says your co-op is currently worth.
>
> I always got more than I expected because I had reasonable 
> expectations for the market I was selling into, and ran my 5-Day sale 
> exactly as described in the book.
>
> Bill Effros
> Author
>
> V Glenda wrote:
>
>     Thanks, Guy.
>
>     On another note, we've scheduled our 5 day sale on March 21-22 but
>     we started advertising as of March 1.  We have not revealed the
>     exact location and plan to do so the week of the sale.  We have it
>     on the Times and Craigs List and have gotten about 100 responses
>     both e-mail and phone calls.  I am just wondering if anyone has
>     done this kind of sale in Manhattan on a coop?  Did you actually
>     get the sale price you wanted if you follow the book to the T?
>
>     Would appreciate any feedback. 
>
>     Thanks,
>     Glenda
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     5-DayForum mailing list
>     5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>     http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>       
>
>
> _______________________________________________ 5-DayForum mailing 
> list 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum 
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
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From aamirsy at gmail.com  Wed Mar 11 11:36:45 2009
From: aamirsy at gmail.com (Aamir Syed)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 11:36:45 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Ads in Multiple news papers
Message-ID: <b37b7a0d0903110836y757a6a98mb75a1d3ae2d8fdca@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

I'm currently putting the 5-Day method into practice next week. Our house is
in Rockland County NY (about 35 miles north of NYC). I know that I will be
posting an ad in our local news paper, but I was considering perhaps the NY
times as well. an online+print ad = $380 (very expensive). However, an
online only ad is approx $130. Considering the price difference would it be
worth it to place just an online ad? both online and print? or none?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

-- 
-Aamir
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From sterbert at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 11 12:41:47 2009
From: sterbert at yahoo.com (Steven Herbert)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 09:41:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [5-DayForum] Ads in Multiple news papers
In-Reply-To: <b37b7a0d0903110836y757a6a98mb75a1d3ae2d8fdca@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <656521.14020.qm@web30201.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Lots of my response came from Print I believe. I'm in
Washington State. 

I was first quoted $480. Then I was told that by
putting my Wed-Fri ad 1st, I was discounted on the
Sat-Sun rate. 

I paid $140 for Wed--Fri and $70 for Sat & Sun.

STeven



--- Aamir Syed <aamirsy at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello all,
> 
> I'm currently putting the 5-Day method into practice
> next week. Our house is
> in Rockland County NY (about 35 miles north of NYC).
> I know that I will be
> posting an ad in our local news paper, but I was
> considering perhaps the NY
> times as well. an online+print ad = $380 (very
> expensive). However, an
> online only ad is approx $130. Considering the price
> difference would it be
> worth it to place just an online ad? both online and
> print? or none?
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
> 
> -- 
> -Aamir
> > _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> 



      

From bill at effros.com  Wed Mar 11 13:30:18 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 13:30:18 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Ads in Multiple news papers
In-Reply-To: <656521.14020.qm@web30201.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <656521.14020.qm@web30201.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49B7F52A.7040106@effros.com>

Aamir,

I've sold homes in Rockland County, so I know what you're talking about.

Here's the way I always figure it:

If an ad brings in one additional real buyer who bumps up the final bid 
by $500, the ad was worth $1000. (If that real buyer had not bid at the 
end of the round robin, the final buyer would have been able to buy for 
$1000 less than the final bid.)

In my experience the New York City buyers are generally outbid by the 
locals, because they don't know the market as well, and tend to drop out 
sooner.

With regard to the Internet versus print ad, I don't know what to say, 
or how to figure it. Five-day ads pop out on New York Times pages. The 
price is clearly all wrong, and you tend to get responses from people 
who are not trolling Internet ads. The people who pick up your 
advertising on the Internet often see it both in the New York Times and 
craigslist.

Your call. I usually run both.

Bill Effros
Author

Steven Herbert wrote:
> Lots of my response came from Print I believe. I'm in
> Washington State. 
>
> I was first quoted $480. Then I was told that by
> putting my Wed-Fri ad 1st, I was discounted on the
> Sat-Sun rate. 
>
> I paid $140 for Wed--Fri and $70 for Sat & Sun.
>
> STeven
>
>
>
> --- Aamir Syed <aamirsy at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>   
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I'm currently putting the 5-Day method into practice
>> next week. Our house is
>> in Rockland County NY (about 35 miles north of NYC).
>> I know that I will be
>> posting an ad in our local news paper, but I was
>> considering perhaps the NY
>> times as well. an online+print ad = $380 (very
>> expensive). However, an
>> online only ad is approx $130. Considering the price
>> difference would it be
>> worth it to place just an online ad? both online and
>> print? or none?
>>
>> Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
>>
>> -- 
>> -Aamir
>>     
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>       
>> 5-DayForum mailing list
>> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>>
>>     
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
>
>
>
>       
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>   
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From lbicon at aol.com  Wed Mar 11 14:00:52 2009
From: lbicon at aol.com (lbicon at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 14:00:52 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Short sale
In-Reply-To: <200903111153.n2BBrB4l018826@intel1.peregrinehw.com>
Message-ID: <8CB708A73D39C46-1090-BAB@FWM-M40.sysops.aol.com>

Andrew,

I am already dealing with many investors in Fl. Your borrowers will be responsible. That is why they were required to personally guarantee the loan. The good news is that everything is negotiable. If they can show that they are in distress, they can get the amount that the bank wants reduced.

Regards,

Conrad Kuiken, Loan Officer, Realtor


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Silverberg <StructureRealty at comcast.net>
To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days' <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Sent: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 4:53 am
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Short sale




Jim,

I am working with someone in Florida on a short sale and when the property sells there will be a significant shortfall / deficiency.? The property was purchased in a LLC formed in Fla but the Members are from Maryland, and they personally guaranteed the loan. The Fla state law allows them to walk away?? Where can I find documentation to support that ? Thanks

?

Andrew Silverberg

Broker & Investor

Bethesda, Maryland

?

?




From: James Fleming [mailto:jamesfleming.realestate at gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:47 PM
To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Short sale


?

Keith ? 

?

An additional thing to know about Washington is that this state is a non-recourse state.? By state law, Mortgage Lenders are prohibited from suing borrowers for additional funds following foreclosures.? In some states, the same is true for short sales.
 There are a handful of such ?walk-away? states with anti-deficiency laws.? They are Alaska, Arizona, California, Connecticut, Florida, Idaho, North Carolina, North Dakota, Texas and Utah.

?

Jim Fleming

Realtor & Lecturer

?

Vancouver WA

?


?





From: 5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Keith R. Pinster
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:14 AM
To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Short sale


?

One very important thing about finding the right realtor to do a short sale for you is their ability to negotiate with the bank.? If they don?t know how (or thing that it is possible) to make sure the bank will not issue a 1099-C for the difference between what you owe and what the short sale price is, FIND A DIFFERENT REALTOR!? Sure, with a hardship you can get out from under the 1099, but it is much better to not have to deal with it in the first place.

?

Keith Pinster ? Real Estate Investor, Vancouver, WA

?




From: O'Day, Lili [mailto:lili at lilioday.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 8:42 AM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...


?

?


Why not do a short sale instead of a foreclosure?? The bank will take less than is currently owed on the property and pay the cost of a Realt
or and your attorney costs to do a short sale.? If normally cost the bank about approx $50,000 to foreclose, and they still won't get more than the property is worth (Bill is correct the market is the market after all).? A short sale would have less of a negative impact on your credit report long term than a foreclosure. It's at least worth a try.? If you go this route, make sure that the Realtor that you use has knowledge of the short sale process and knows what they're doing, so as not to waste time..? They need to be able to work well with the asset manager in the loss mitigation department of your bank.



?



A lot of people are going through this.? It's a real nightmare!? Know all your options before going forward with a forclosure.? Best of luck, 



?



Lili O'Day



Broker Associate ?IL &FL



?


?



From: 5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:23 AM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...

Merry,

Thanks for getting back to us.

People all over the country are having the same experience you just went through -- no one will pay anything near what the owner has in the house. And it just gets worse.

There is nothing home-owners can do but let the banks eat the losses.

You clearly did everything you20could do, and still you didn't come close to the value the bank appraisers told you your home was worth when you took your mortgage.

Many, many people are in the same boat, and more discover they are in this boat every day.

The only thing that makes sense is for home owners to walk away from these homes and mortgages, and that is what I am recommending to all who finds themselves in the same same situation you are in.

At some point everyone will realize that ALL mortgages must be re-set to reflect current values, and that we will all have to pay for it.? (That is already going on in terms of bank bailouts--but the process has not fairly reached down to homeowners who would be foolish to continue paying outsized mortgages on homes that will not again be worth what they paid for a long time.)

At some point inflation will kick in again, and home prices will again return to what they were -- but that process could take a decade.? No one can say.

In the meantime, go through the bankruptcy with the knowledge that you did everything you could to avoid it.? The prices you were offered for your home are the most anyone could get at this time, and you know you cannot afford to wait for times to change.? 

We will all have to rebuild our finances, and I'm sure programs will develop to ease the rebuilding for those hardest hit.

Check in with us from time to time to let us know how you are doing.? As new resources develop for people with "up
side-down" mortgages, we will be talking about them, and how they alter the home-selling market.? So many people share your dilemma, this country will have to develop remedies -- and when they do, you can be sure there will be a lot of people on this Forum prepared to vouch for you.

Regards,

Bill Effros
Author

Merry McConnell wrote: 

Hello Bill,

The sale is over and the highest bid was too low for me to accept.? I kept my appointment with the lawyer this morning, but on different terms.? I'm starting the process for bankruptcy and foreclosure...and it does not feel good.

The sale in itself was a wonderful experience.? We really felt we had at least six serious bidders, but they all wanted to 'steal' the property instead of buy it.? We had a total of 69 responses and
about 40 people come through.? There were 16 names on the bidding sheet and the majority dropped off at the 120,000 mark.? 

I still appreciate discovering this method for selling, because I've learned so much through the process.? There's always a possibility that I could have put a 'by owner' sale sign out front and 
attracted people with a different price range in their minds, because even though I can hear you say over and over that the low bid I received is the FMV, I feel I attracted people focused on the
109,500 I advertised.? Forgive me!? 

I've run out of time and I have my friend here with me for one more week.? I could make a last ditch effort20to run another add for this weekend, but if I do that we wouldn't be able to 'dismantle' my house and move the things out.? 

I'm still in disbelief that things didn't work out to at least a reasonable closeness to the low figure I was willing to accept.? The high bid was rediculous and I'm not willing to let someone come in on such a low figure and benefit from my years of hard work and $$$$ worth of improvements.
I'd rather let the bank eat this one.

Thank you again, Bill...really!

Merry






On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:


Good going, Merry!

Most of the people who say they're coming back, and say they're going to participate, will not.? Don't be discouraged by this, it doesn't matter.

You will only have 1 final buyer, and 2 others will push that buyer up to fair market value.? All the rest are just window dressing.

The people you are talking to are real.? You are real.? The process is fair.

No matter what the final bid, proceed.

Let the high bidder negotiate with the bank -- just get out of the way, and let both the high bidder and the bank know you are getting out of the way before they start negotiating with each other.

Others may call after the bidding.? Send them along to the bank, too -- but let your high bidder get the first shot at your house.

The price you are offered, even if it is much much lower than you thought it would be, is the current fair mark
et value.? If the bank doesn't accept that fact, they will get to hold onto that house until they learn.? If they do accept it, they will be able to get it, or maybe a little bit more, from your high bidder or one of the other bidders.

In any case, you will have determined the fair market value, and sold your home within 5 days.

And that's the whole point of this exercise.

Bill Effros
Author



Merry McConnell wrote: 



A Quick Update!

Phew!

I had 32 calls by Friday night...and this morning (Sat) the phone has been ringing non-stop.
One person offered a cash offer but I knew better!? Thank goodness read the book!
The house is C L E A N and de-cluttered, good smelling and all lights are ON!? People LOVE
it and I can feel determination to own from three sets.? Oh yeah...

We (my friend and I) are having a ball...loving talking to people and feeling comfortable with the
entire process.? Everyone says they're going in on the Round Robin - only four signed the sheet
but others are bringing back spouses, etc.

All I know is that people are awe-struck with the place and they all 'want' it.? 

Thank you, Bill for writing this book...no matter how this works out.

I have my appt. with my lawyer for the contract signing on Monday at 10am...because I just
know I'll need it!

More Later!

Merry



?

?

?

?




?

?

?

?

?

_______________________________________________

5-
DayForum mailing list

5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com

http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

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-- 
IF YOU THINK YOU CAN OR YOU THINK YOU CAN'T...YOU'RE RIGHT! ?Henry Ford

?

?

?

?




?

?

?

?

?

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5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com

http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

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From jamesfleming.realestate at gmail.com  Wed Mar 11 18:47:35 2009
From: jamesfleming.realestate at gmail.com (James Fleming)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 15:47:35 -0700
Subject: [5-DayForum] Short sale
In-Reply-To: <200903111153.n2BBrB4l018826@intel1.peregrinehw.com>
References: <C693E5B868D541EC8BD8A4F7DCB4E738@jamesfleming>
	<200903111153.n2BBrB4l018826@intel1.peregrinehw.com>
Message-ID: <043DD6B4F7EB4D55B2D9BF8F1CF7FBE2@jamesfleming>

Andrew - 

 

Todd Zywicki, law professor at George Mason University in Fairfax, Virginia,
and Senior Scholar at the Mercatus Center think tank, is writing a book
about bankruptcy and consumer credit.  It is from a detailed news article in
the Seattle Times on January 9th of this year about Prof. Zywicki's work
that I quoted the list of non-recourse states that have anti-deficiency
laws.  He is an authority on this subject; I am not.  He is not far from you
geographically; it might pay to contact him.  Contact information at the
University:

 

George Mason University

4400 University Drive

Fairfax, Virginia 22030

703-993-1000

 

Link to Prof. Zyicki's personal contact information and biographical
information: http://www.law.gmu.edu/faculty/directory/zywicki_todd

 

Best of luck with this Andrew.

 

Kind regards,

 

Jim Fleming

Realtor & Lecturer

Vancouver WA

 

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourho
mein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtose
llyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Silverberg
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 4:53 AM
To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Short sale

 

Jim,

I am working with someone in Florida on a short sale and when the property
sells there will be a significant shortfall / deficiency.  The property was
purchased in a LLC formed in Fla but the Members are from Maryland, and they
personally guaranteed the loan. The Fla state law allows them to walk away?
Where can I find documentation to support that ? Thanks

 

Andrew Silverberg

Broker & Investor

Bethesda, Maryland

 

 

  _____  

From: James Fleming [mailto:jamesfleming.realestate at gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:47 PM
To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Short sale

 

Keith - 

 

An additional thing to know about Washington is that this state is a
non-recourse state.  By state law, Mortgage Lenders are prohibited from
suing borrowers for additional funds following foreclosures.  In some
states, the same is true for short sales.  There are a handful of such
"walk-away" states with anti-deficiency laws.  They are Alaska, Arizona,
California, Connecticut, Florida, Idaho, North Carolina, North Dakota, Texas
and Utah.

 

Jim Fleming

Realtor & Lecturer

 

Vancouver WA

 

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourho
mein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtose
llyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Keith R. Pinster
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:14 AM
To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Short sale

 

One very important thing about finding the right realtor to do a short sale
for you is their ability to negotiate with the bank.  If they don't know how
(or thing that it is possible) to make sure the bank will not issue a 1099-C
for the difference between what you owe and what the short sale price is,
FIND A DIFFERENT REALTOR!  Sure, with a hardship you can get out from under
the 1099, but it is much better to not have to deal with it in the first
place.

 

Keith Pinster - Real Estate Investor, Vancouver, WA

 

  _____  

From: O'Day, Lili [mailto:lili at lilioday.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 8:42 AM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...

 

 

Why not do a short sale instead of a foreclosure?  The bank will take less
than is currently owed on the property and pay the cost of a Realtor and
your attorney costs to do a short sale.  If normally cost the bank about
approx $50,000 to foreclose, and they still won't get more than the property
is worth (Bill is correct the market is the market after all).  A short sale
would have less of a negative impact on your credit report long term than a
foreclosure. It's at least worth a try.  If you go this route, make sure
that the Realtor that you use has knowledge of the short sale process and
knows what they're doing, so as not to waste time..  They need to be able to
work well with the asset manager in the loss mitigation department of your
bank.

 

A lot of people are going through this.  It's a real nightmare!  Know all
your options before going forward with a forclosure.  Best of luck, 

 

Lili O'Day

Broker Associate  IL &FL

 

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5day
s.com] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:23 AM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...

Merry,

Thanks for getting back to us.

People all over the country are having the same experience you just went
through -- no one will pay anything near what the owner has in the house.
And it just gets worse.

There is nothing home-owners can do but let the banks eat the losses.

You clearly did everything you could do, and still you didn't come close to
the value the bank appraisers told you your home was worth when you took
your mortgage.

Many, many people are in the same boat, and more discover they are in this
boat every day.

The only thing that makes sense is for home owners to walk away from these
homes and mortgages, and that is what I am recommending to all who finds
themselves in the same same situation you are in.

At some point everyone will realize that ALL mortgages must be re-set to
reflect current values, and that we will all have to pay for it.  (That is
already going on in terms of bank bailouts--but the process has not fairly
reached down to homeowners who would be foolish to continue paying outsized
mortgages on homes that will not again be worth what they paid for a long
time.)

At some point inflation will kick in again, and home prices will again
return to what they were -- but that process could take a decade.  No one
can say.

In the meantime, go through the bankruptcy with the knowledge that you did
everything you could to avoid it.  The prices you were offered for your home
are the most anyone could get at this time, and you know you cannot afford
to wait for times to change.  

We will all have to rebuild our finances, and I'm sure programs will develop
to ease the rebuilding for those hardest hit.

Check in with us from time to time to let us know how you are doing.  As new
resources develop for people with "upside-down" mortgages, we will be
talking about them, and how they alter the home-selling market.  So many
people share your dilemma, this country will have to develop remedies -- and
when they do, you can be sure there will be a lot of people on this Forum
prepared to vouch for you.

Regards,

Bill Effros
Author

Merry McConnell wrote: 

Hello Bill,

The sale is over and the highest bid was too low for me to accept.  I kept
my appointment with the lawyer this morning, but on different terms.  I'm
starting the process for bankruptcy and foreclosure...and it does not feel
good.

The sale in itself was a wonderful experience.  We really felt we had at
least six serious bidders, but they all wanted to 'steal' the property
instead of buy it.  We had a total of 69 responses and
about 40 people come through.  There were 16 names on the bidding sheet and
the majority dropped off at the 120,000 mark.  

I still appreciate discovering this method for selling, because I've learned
so much through the process.  There's always a possibility that I could have
put a 'by owner' sale sign out front and 
attracted people with a different price range in their minds, because even
though I can hear you say over and over that the low bid I received is the
FMV, I feel I attracted people focused on the
109,500 I advertised.  Forgive me!  

I've run out of time and I have my friend here with me for one more week.  I
could make a last ditch effort to run another add for this weekend, but if I
do that we wouldn't be able to 'dismantle' my house and move the things out.


I'm still in disbelief that things didn't work out to at least a reasonable
closeness to the low figure I was willing to accept.  The high bid was
rediculous and I'm not willing to let someone come in on such a low figure
and benefit from my years of hard work and $$$$ worth of improvements.
I'd rather let the bank eat this one.

Thank you again, Bill...really!

Merry




On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:

Good going, Merry!

Most of the people who say they're coming back, and say they're going to
participate, will not.  Don't be discouraged by this, it doesn't matter.

You will only have 1 final buyer, and 2 others will push that buyer up to
fair market value.  All the rest are just window dressing.

The people you are talking to are real.  You are real.  The process is fair.

No matter what the final bid, proceed.

Let the high bidder negotiate with the bank -- just get out of the way, and
let both the high bidder and the bank know you are getting out of the way
before they start negotiating with each other.

Others may call after the bidding.  Send them along to the bank, too -- but
let your high bidder get the first shot at your house.

The price you are offered, even if it is much much lower than you thought it
would be, is the current fair market value.  If the bank doesn't accept that
fact, they will get to hold onto that house until they learn.  If they do
accept it, they will be able to get it, or maybe a little bit more, from
your high bidder or one of the other bidders.

In any case, you will have determined the fair market value, and sold your
home within 5 days.

And that's the whole point of this exercise.

Bill Effros
Author



Merry McConnell wrote: 

A Quick Update!

Phew!

I had 32 calls by Friday night...and this morning (Sat) the phone has been
ringing non-stop.
One person offered a cash offer but I knew better!  Thank goodness read the
book!
The house is C L E A N and de-cluttered, good smelling and all lights are
ON!  People LOVE
it and I can feel determination to own from three sets.  Oh yeah...

We (my friend and I) are having a ball...loving talking to people and
feeling comfortable with the
entire process.  Everyone says they're going in on the Round Robin - only
four signed the sheet
but others are bringing back spouses, etc.

All I know is that people are awe-struck with the place and they all 'want'
it.  

Thank you, Bill for writing this book...no matter how this works out.

I have my appt. with my lawyer for the contract signing on Monday at
10am...because I just
know I'll need it!

More Later!

Merry

 
 
 
 
 
 





  _____  



 
 
 
 
 
 
 
_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
  


_______________________________________________
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5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum




-- 
IF YOU THINK YOU CAN OR YOU THINK YOU CAN'T...YOU'RE RIGHT!  Henry Ford

 
 
 
 
 
 





  _____  



 
 
 
 
 
 
 
_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
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From bill at effros.com  Wed Mar 11 19:15:16 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 19:15:16 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] A very unique land sale
In-Reply-To: <001b01c995d6$13d2c590$3b7850b0$@com>
References: <001b01c995d6$13d2c590$3b7850b0$@com>
Message-ID: <49B84604.4020006@effros.com>

Did anyone get back to this guy?

Bill Effros

(Catching up on email again...)

Steven Bogensberger wrote:
>
> Hi there,
>
>  
>
> I have just read the book, joined the forum and  perused through the 
> archives and yet I am not %100 sure if there is value in using the 
> 5-day method in my case.  Here is the story.
>
>  
>
> I own a group of islands (4 islands) on a very desirable cottage 
> country lake in Canada.  They have many desirable features not least 
> of which is the fact that it has the furthest distance to a neighbour 
> of any property in the region and being islands that will not change 
> until the polar ice caps melt. Other intangibles include: located in a 
> UNESCO world heritage site, resident Osprey family, best deep clear 
> water access in lake system, renowned bass fishing (annual 
> professional tournaments held on the lake) and of course the cache of 
> being able to say you own a group of islands.
>
>  
>
> All that being said the property is so unique that there literally are 
> no sufficient comps or historical data on the property itself that 
> evaluating the property has been extremely difficult.  To add to the 
> problem I purchased the property from a person who bought it 1965 at a 
> price that was not much more than they paid for it then.  It was a 
> purely emotional sale for them and money was not an issue so they sold 
> it to me for surely far less than it was worth. For the record If I 
> had any other choice I wouldn't be selling it but financial stress has 
> forced my hand.
>
>  
>
> 45 years later I have had it evaluated by appraisers, agents and banks 
> and have had a range of response from 45,000 to 255,000.  Needless to 
> say I am no further ahead.
>
>  
>
> The problem is I want to find a "true" market value and thought the 
> 5-day sale might just do it (although due to the uniqueness there are 
> only so many people in the market at any given time for a group of 
> islands)...without the 5-day sale though I feel I am left to only 
> being able to trust my gut...which certainly won't be accurate.
>
>  
>
> I know that 5-day sales are not recommended for land sales, but I 
> thought maybe even a hybrid/modified version might work in this case.
>
>  
>
> PLEASE ADVISE!  :o)
>
>  
>
> Any other suggestions also would be greatly appreciated.
>
>  
>
> Steve.
>
>  
>
> P.S. enjoyed the book and plan on running a five day sale with my 
> buddy's house.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
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From bill at effros.com  Wed Mar 11 19:19:23 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 19:19:23 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] commerical property
In-Reply-To: <AEFF17FF9D8241E9941CFB9F9B39CC3C@MNorrisPC>
References: <AEFF17FF9D8241E9941CFB9F9B39CC3C@MNorrisPC>
Message-ID: <49B846FB.2020905@effros.com>

Nope, probably not.
 
Bill Effros
Author

Mike Norris wrote:
> I have a 1300 square commerical building which was a barber/beauty 
> shop, but could be used for office or small retail. It is in rural 
> small town in Michigan (population 2300).
>  
> I own it free and clear. Do you think the 5 Day plan would work for 
> selling this business.
>  
> Please respond to mnorris358 at yahoo.com <mailto:mnorris358 at yahoo.com>. 
> as my mutualdata in coming mail server is not working.
>  
> thanks
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
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From bill at effros.com  Wed Mar 11 19:20:24 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 19:20:24 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Does This Method Work With Coops Too?
In-Reply-To: <BAY138-DS5F3181D063B0C704E6F26ACAD0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY138-DS5F3181D063B0C704E6F26ACAD0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <49B84738.8080803@effros.com>

Works fine on coops.

Bill Effros
Author



Rosemary wrote:
> Hello,
>  
> Both my sisters used this book to sell their homes and it worked like 
> a charm!  I have a coop to sell, will this method work for me?
>  
> Thank you.
>  
> Sincerely,
>  
>  
> Rosemary
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
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From bill at effros.com  Wed Mar 11 19:21:32 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 19:21:32 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] High End Homes
In-Reply-To: <COL103-W819EC07DD6042571617045A8A10@phx.gbl>
References: <COL103-W819EC07DD6042571617045A8A10@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <49B8477C.7090900@effros.com>

No problem.

But the house must still be worth 5 million in the current market.  The 
5-Day Method does not change the market.

Bill Effros
Author

Shawn J wrote:
> Hi Bill,
> Just read the book and I have a question.  Would this process work on a 5 million dollar home and if so are there any special changes that have to be made during the process or just follow the exact steps as they are in the book.
> Thanks,
> Shawn
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Find 
> out more. 
> <http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_70faster_032009> 
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
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From sterbert at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 11 19:22:38 2009
From: sterbert at yahoo.com (Steven Herbert)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 16:22:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [5-DayForum] Ads on Craigslist
In-Reply-To: <49B7F52A.7040106@effros.com>
Message-ID: <186557.8273.qm@web30207.mail.mud.yahoo.com>



I just wanted to add ...

that advertising has been complicated for me. In the
Seattle area, the general inventory is especially
high.  New housing developments were rising on a daily
basis not too long ago. Now I'm competing with brand
new unsold homes being given away so the builders can
cut their losses. 

On Craigslist, in the Seattle-Tacoma area, since I
placed my ad late Tuesday night, more than 1000 new
postings are there. I don't see how anyone can find my
ad after today.  I can't even find it--and I'm
lookingfor it.

This is my 2nd time trying to run the sale (despite
Bill's warning). I got several responses today ...
but, like last time, it will decline fast as my ad
gets further buried.

Steven


--- Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:

> Aamir,
> 
> I've sold homes in Rockland County, so I know what
> you're talking about.
> 
> Here's the way I always figure it:
> 
> If an ad brings in one additional real buyer who
> bumps up the final bid 
> by $500, the ad was worth $1000. (If that real buyer
> had not bid at the 
> end of the round robin, the final buyer would have
> been able to buy for 
> $1000 less than the final bid.)
> 
> In my experience the New York City buyers are
> generally outbid by the 
> locals, because they don't know the market as well,
> and tend to drop out 
> sooner.
> 
> With regard to the Internet versus print ad, I don't
> know what to say, 
> or how to figure it. Five-day ads pop out on New
> York Times pages. The 
> price is clearly all wrong, and you tend to get
> responses from people 
> who are not trolling Internet ads. The people who
> pick up your 
> advertising on the Internet often see it both in the
> New York Times and 
> craigslist.
> 
> Your call. I usually run both.
> 
> Bill Effros
> Author
> 
> Steven Herbert wrote:
> > Lots of my response came from Print I believe. I'm
> in
> > Washington State. 
> >
> > I was first quoted $480. Then I was told that by
> > putting my Wed-Fri ad 1st, I was discounted on the
> > Sat-Sun rate. 
> >
> > I paid $140 for Wed--Fri and $70 for Sat & Sun.
> >
> > STeven
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Aamir Syed <aamirsy at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >   
> >> Hello all,
> >>
> >> I'm currently putting the 5-Day method into
> practice
> >> next week. Our house is
> >> in Rockland County NY (about 35 miles north of
> NYC).
> >> I know that I will be
> >> posting an ad in our local news paper, but I was
> >> considering perhaps the NY
> >> times as well. an online+print ad = $380 (very
> >> expensive). However, an
> >> online only ad is approx $130. Considering the
> price
> >> difference would it be
> >> worth it to place just an online ad? both online
> and
> >> print? or none?
> >>
> >> Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
> >>
> >> -- 
> >> -Aamir
> >>     
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>>       
> >> 5-DayForum mailing list
> >> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> >>
> >>     
> >
>
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> >   
> >
> >
> >
> >       
> > _______________________________________________
> > 5-DayForum mailing list
> > 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> >
>
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> >
> >   
> > _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> 



      

From lili at lilioday.com  Wed Mar 11 20:43:56 2009
From: lili at lilioday.com (O'Day, Lili)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 20:43:56 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] A very unique land sale
In-Reply-To: <49B84604.4020006@effros.com>
Message-ID: <E8687DEB9C959E488879896C3F6D001121698D52@winxbeus12.exchange.xchg>

This is the type of property that I've seen marketed through the FIABCI and CIPS networks.  FIABCI is an international organization with headquarters in Paris (worldwide) with several thousand members who have clients looking for specialized and unique properties  and luxury homes all over the world...This is a network of international property specialists who cooperate worldwide, on every continent, with the ability to send an e-mail blast to every member across the world..There are also regular meetings and conferences where these properties are marketed .CIPS candidates are Certified International Property Specialists (candidates, again are worldwide), with years of international experience marketing to a global market.  I'm a member of both organizations, and have seen some very unique properties sell.  Your buyer for this type of property could potentially come from any corner of the earth, and your ability to get the message out about the uniqueness is very limited on your own.  By exposing your property to a larger international audience, I think you would get a higher price.

I'm a fan of the 5 day sale, but with regard to your property, I don't think you can reach a large enough audience.

Lili

Lili O'Day
Broker Associate
CRS,GRI,E-PRO,TRC
CIPS,CSC,FIABCI
Re/Max Results
239-449-8460 direct
708-878-9097 cell
lili at lilioday.com<mailto:lili at lilioday.com>
http://www.lilioday.remax.com<http://www.lilioday.remax.com/>



________________________________
From: 5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 6:15 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] A very unique land sale

Did anyone get back to this guy?

Bill Effros

(Catching up on email again...)

Steven Bogensberger wrote:
Hi there,
I have just read the book, joined the forum and  perused through the archives and yet I am not %100 sure if there is value in using the 5-day method in my case.  Here is the story.
I own a group of islands (4 islands) on a very desirable cottage country lake in Canada.  They have many desirable features not least of which is the fact that it has the furthest distance to a neighbour of any property in the region and being islands that will not change until the polar ice caps melt. Other intangibles include: located in a UNESCO world heritage site, resident Osprey family, best deep clear water access in lake system, renowned bass fishing (annual professional tournaments held on the lake) and of course the cache of being able to say you own a group of islands.
All that being said the property is so unique that there literally are no sufficient comps or historical data on the property itself that evaluating the property has been extremely difficult.  To add to the problem I purchased the property from a person who bought it 1965 at a price that was not much more than they paid for it then.  It was a purely emotional sale for them and money was not an issue so they sold it to me for surely far less than it was worth. For the record If I had any other choice I wouldn't be selling it but financial stress has forced my hand.
45 years later I have had it evaluated by appraisers, agents and banks and have had a range of response from 45,000 to 255,000.  Needless to say I am no further ahead.
The problem is I want to find a "true" market value and thought the 5-day sale might just do it (although due to the uniqueness there are only so many people in the market at any given time for a group of islands)...without the 5-day sale though I feel I am left to only being able to trust my gut...which certainly won't be accurate.
I know that 5-day sales are not recommended for land sales, but I thought maybe even a hybrid/modified version might work in this case.
PLEASE ADVISE!  :o)
Any other suggestions also would be greatly appreciated.
Steve.
P.S. enjoyed the book and plan on running a five day sale with my buddy's house.

________________________________

_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com<mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

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From bill at effros.com  Wed Mar 11 22:25:47 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:25:47 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Foreclosures
Message-ID: <49B872AB.4020408@effros.com>

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/housing/2009-03-05-foreclosure_N.htm

From steve_bog at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 11 21:45:21 2009
From: steve_bog at yahoo.com (Steve Bogensberger)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 18:45:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [5-DayForum] A very unique land sale
References: <E8687DEB9C959E488879896C3F6D001121698D52@winxbeus12.exchange.xchg>
Message-ID: <655528.4254.qm@web65716.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

Thank you kindly Lili, 

I am very grateful for the suggestion and direction at first blush it makes complete sense for my property characteristics! I had never heard of the organizations that you mentioned, but I have immediately bookmarked them and have already started investigating the path you suggested.

Take good care,
Steve


?



________________________________
From: "O'Day, Lili" <lili at lilioday.com>
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 8:43:56 PM
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] A very unique land sale


This is the type of property that I've seen marketed through the FIABCI and CIPS networks.? FIABCI is an international organization with headquarters in Paris (worldwide) with several thousand members who have clients looking for specialized and unique properties? and luxury homes all over the world...This is a network of international property specialists?who cooperate?worldwide, on every continent, with the ability to send an e-mail blast to every member across the world..There are also regular meetings and conferences where these properties are marketed .CIPS candidates are Certified International Property Specialists (candidates, again?are worldwide), with years of international experience marketing to a?global market.? I'm a member of both organizations, and have seen some very unique properties sell.? Your buyer for this type of property could potentially come from any corner of the earth, and your ability to get the message out about the
 uniqueness is very limited on your own.??By exposing your property to a larger international?audience, I think you would get a higher price. 
?
I'm a fan of the 5 day sale, but with regard to your property, I don't think you can reach a large enough audience.
?
Lili
?
Lili O'Day
Broker Associate
CRS,GRI,E-PRO,TRC
CIPS,CSC,FIABCI
Re/Max Results
239-449-8460 direct
708-878-9097 cell
lili at lilioday.com
http://www.lilioday.remax.com




________________________________
From: 5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 6:15 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] A very unique land sale

Did anyone get back to this guy?

Bill Effros

(Catching up on email again...)

Steven Bogensberger wrote: 
Hi there,
I have just read the book, joined the forum and? perused through the archives and yet I am not %100 sure if there is value in using the 5-day method in my case.? Here is the story.
I own a group of islands (4 islands) on a very desirable cottage country lake in Canada.? They have many desirable features not least of which is the fact that it has the furthest distance to a neighbour of any property in the region and being islands that will not change until the polar ice caps melt. Other intangibles include: located in a UNESCO world heritage site, resident Osprey family, best deep clear water access in lake system, renowned bass fishing (annual professional tournaments held on the lake) and of course the cache of being able to say you own a group of islands.
All that being said the property is so unique that there literally are no sufficient comps or historical data on the property itself that evaluating the property has been extremely difficult.? To add to the problem I purchased the property from a person who bought it 1965 at a price that was not much more than they paid for it then.? It was a purely emotional sale for them and money was not an issue so they sold it to me for surely far less than it was worth. For the record If I had any other choice I wouldn?t be selling it but financial stress has forced my hand.
45 years later I have had it evaluated by appraisers, agents and banks and have had a range of response from 45,000 to 255,000.? Needless to say I am no further ahead.
The problem is I want to find a ?true? market value and thought the 5-day sale might just do it (although due to the uniqueness there are only so many people in the market at any given time for a group of islands)...without the 5-day sale though I feel I am left to only being able to trust my gut...which certainly won?t be accurate.
I know that 5-day sales are not recommended for land sales, but I thought maybe even a hybrid/modified version might work in this case.
PLEASE ADVISE!? :o)
Any other suggestions also would be greatly appreciated.
Steve.
P.S. enjoyed the book and plan on running a five day sale with my buddy?s house.

________________________________

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From bill at effros.com  Wed Mar 11 22:41:28 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:41:28 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] A very unique land sale
In-Reply-To: <E8687DEB9C959E488879896C3F6D001121698D52@winxbeus12.exchange.xchg>
References: <E8687DEB9C959E488879896C3F6D001121698D52@winxbeus12.exchange.xchg>
Message-ID: <49B87658.1080101@effros.com>

Steve,

I basically agree with Lili.  You won't be able to pull 3 real buyers 
together in 5 days, no matter what you do.  There may not be 3 real 
buyers for that property at any given time.

Bill Effros
Author



O'Day, Lili wrote:
> This is the type of property that I've seen marketed through the 
> FIABCI and CIPS networks.  FIABCI is an international organization 
> with headquarters in Paris (worldwide) with several thousand members 
> who have clients looking for specialized and unique properties  and 
> luxury homes all over the world...This is a network of international 
> property specialists who cooperate worldwide, on every continent, with 
> the ability to send an e-mail blast to every member across the 
> world..There are also regular meetings and conferences where these 
> properties are marketed .CIPS candidates are Certified International 
> Property Specialists (candidates, again are worldwide), with years of 
> international experience marketing to a global market.  I'm a member 
> of both organizations, and have seen some very unique properties 
> sell.  Your buyer for this type of property could potentially come 
> from any corner of the earth, and your ability to get the message out 
> about the uniqueness is very limited on your own.  By exposing your 
> property to a larger international audience, I think you would get a 
> higher price.
>  
> I'm a fan of the 5 day sale, but with regard to your property, I don't 
> think you can reach a large enough audience.
>  
> Lili
>  
> Lili O'Day
> Broker Associate
> CRS,GRI,E-PRO,TRC
> CIPS,CSC,FIABCI
> Re/Max Results
> 239-449-8460 direct
> 708-878-9097 cell
> lili at lilioday.com <mailto:lili at lilioday.com>
> http://www.lilioday.remax.com <http://www.lilioday.remax.com/>
>  
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* 
> 5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] 
> *On Behalf Of *Bill Effros
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 11, 2009 6:15 PM
> *To:* How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] A very unique land sale
>
> Did anyone get back to this guy?
>
> Bill Effros
>
> (Catching up on email again...)
>
> Steven Bogensberger wrote:
>>
>> Hi there,
>>
>> I have just read the book, joined the forum and  perused through the 
>> archives and yet I am not %100 sure if there is value in using the 
>> 5-day method in my case.  Here is the story.
>>
>> I own a group of islands (4 islands) on a very desirable cottage 
>> country lake in Canada.  They have many desirable features not least 
>> of which is the fact that it has the furthest distance to a neighbour 
>> of any property in the region and being islands that will not change 
>> until the polar ice caps melt. Other intangibles include: located in 
>> a UNESCO world heritage site, resident Osprey family, best deep clear 
>> water access in lake system, renowned bass fishing (annual 
>> professional tournaments held on the lake) and of course the cache of 
>> being able to say you own a group of islands.
>>
>> All that being said the property is so unique that there literally 
>> are no sufficient comps or historical data on the property itself 
>> that evaluating the property has been extremely difficult.  To add to 
>> the problem I purchased the property from a person who bought it 1965 
>> at a price that was not much more than they paid for it then.  It was 
>> a purely emotional sale for them and money was not an issue so they 
>> sold it to me for surely far less than it was worth. For the record 
>> If I had any other choice I wouldn't be selling it but financial 
>> stress has forced my hand.
>>
>> 45 years later I have had it evaluated by appraisers, agents and 
>> banks and have had a range of response from 45,000 to 255,000.  
>> Needless to say I am no further ahead.
>>
>> The problem is I want to find a "true" market value and thought the 
>> 5-day sale might just do it (although due to the uniqueness there are 
>> only so many people in the market at any given time for a group of 
>> islands)...without the 5-day sale though I feel I am left to only 
>> being able to trust my gut...which certainly won't be accurate.
>>
>> I know that 5-day sales are not recommended for land sales, but I 
>> thought maybe even a hybrid/modified version might work in this case.
>>
>> PLEASE ADVISE!  :o)
>>
>> Any other suggestions also would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> Steve.
>>
>> P.S. enjoyed the book and plan on running a five day sale with my 
>> buddy's house.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> 5-DayForum mailing list
>> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>   
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
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From glendav24 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 11 22:43:23 2009
From: glendav24 at yahoo.com (V Glenda)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 19:43:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [5-DayForum] 5 Day Sale in Manhattan
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6.1236787227.13018.5-dayforum@mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
References: <mailman.6.1236787227.13018.5-dayforum@mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Message-ID: <663450.80551.qm@web112201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hi!  Bill-
Ok, so how should I handle the advertisement then?  Place a print and on line ad in the New York Times for all 5 days even though the biggest exposure will be only be on the Sunday edition?   I need some guidance....this is making me really nervous.  Also, for the on line ad, advertising if for $269,500 automatically puts it at the bottom of the search list.  Aren't I  missing potential buyers who are in the 500K range?

Another one of my concern is how do I avoid going into contract with an unqualified buyer?  By this I mean, it is one thing for the buyer and I to agree on a price, but the buyer must pass the board qualification and bank qualification as well.  Your book did not really address this area in detail as far as taking board prequalifications into consideration.  Would it be okay if I have the five top bidders fill out a prequalifying questionnaire and offer to the one who will most likely qualify through the board (ie sound employement history, sufficient financial reserve, income, etc?)  How did you handle this area when you were selling coops in Manhattan?  Thanks for your input...

Best,
Glenda



________________________________
From: "5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com" <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 12:00:27 PM
Subject: 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 14

Send 5-DayForum mailing list submissions to
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Today's Topics:

   1. Please remove me from your mailing list (jmanny at bellsouth.net)
   2. Re: Short sale (Rick Duffin)
   3. Re: Short sale (Rick Duffin)
   4. 5 Day Sale in Manhattan (V Glenda)
   5. Re: Short sale (Andrew Silverberg)
   6. Re: Short sale (Damian Colden)
   7. Re: Short sale (Naji)
   8. Re: Why you shouldn't protect the broker (Wade Fenner)
   9. Re: 5 Day Sale in Manhattan (Bill Effros)
  10. commerical property (Mike Norris)
  11. Re: 5 Day Sale in Manhattan (tgarter at comcast.net)


-----Inline Message Follows-----


 This is the second request to be removed.
Thank You

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> Send 5-DayForum mailing list submissions to 
> 	5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit 
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> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum 
> 
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to 
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> 
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> 
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-----Inline Message Follows-----


Great Reading over the last couple months.  Read the book in one night.  Makes perfect sense.  My house has been on the market for 3 months.  About 20 showings. No offers.  Listing expires in April. New post-divorce salary takes effect this week, half my normal pay.  No way to afford house and too much house for just me and kids on weekends.  Even if I could manage it, I would be working more side jobs then now just to break even.  Called bank, not really a mortgage, I just have an equity loan for the cost of the house.  Asked about short sale, mitigation dept.  Was real nice, just told me to fax him an offer when I get it.  I asked how long for decision, he said just a couple days.  Sounds to good to be true.  House currently listed for 150, I owe 162 , very hard to get comps since house is valued at 170-190+ by online sites.  Houses on my street go from mine, low at 160 I paid, to probably 750,000 high end.  Next street over, 1 or 2 million?, glass
 elevators etc.  Mine build 1935, first house in area.  Odd property - love or hate it (My X wife obviously loved it.) Plan: No offers by expiration on listing, do 5 day sale.  Bank can take it or leave it.  If they refuse, offer deed in liu of forclosure.  I do not feel it is right to stay here while in foreclosure, I signed the contract.  Mostly worried about hit to credit.  
 
Questions: 1
) For deed in liu, what are the odds in general and what is the credit hit.  Do they mark "Settled for less.." ? 
 
2)  On short sale, how do you get out of paying taxes on the forgiveness.  You mention that you need to negotiate this, but don't they have to hit you with it by law?  Anything on this in the new laws coming down? 
 
3) Is Mitigation guy pulling my leg, saying 2 days to decide.  Bank is Charter One, now owned by Citizens.  Loan is 20 year, 6.5% Equity Line of Credit.  We had a regular loan but got this one 2 years ago as rate was lower, no closing costs at all.  But is weird, not a mortgage but Equity LIne.  Need to get paperwork to check whether is with or without recource.  (Wife removed all paperwork from home, says she threw it out, oh well)  Banker told me that they would determine what I would still have to pay after short sale at the time they approve it.  
 
 Lastly, tried to convince realtor to do 5day sale, very against it.  Not worth arguing.  Should I give her another chance to help hold 5-day sale before listing expires?  I only agreed to 4 month listing since I told her up front I would not be able to make the mortgage payments after that. She will also not like bank offer, they told me they usually only pay 2% commission on short sale, we have agread to 4% single, 5% dual agency. 
 
 Current credit in very good shape, took a while to get it there and hate to loose it, but that's life.  Thanks for the book Bill, you must put many hours into this list.  Thanks to all you pro's and regular Joes and Jills too for giving me an education.  


On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 1:13 PM, Keith R. Pinster <keith.pinster at comcast.net> wrote:

One very important thing about finding the right realtor to do a short sale for you is their ability to negotiate with the bank.  If they don?t know how (or thing that it is possible) to make sure the bank will not issue a 1099-C for the difference between what you owe and what the short sale price is, FIND A DIFFERENT REALTOR!  Sure, with a hardship you can get out from under the 1099, but it is much better to not have to deal with it in the first place.
 
Keith Pinster ? Real Estate Investor, Vancouver, WA
 

________________________________
 
From:O'Day, Lili [mailto:lili at lilioday.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 8:42 AM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...
 
 
Why not do a short sale instead of a foreclosure?  The bank will take less than is currently owed on the property and pay the cost of a Realtor and your attorney costs to do a short sale.  If normally cost the bank about approx $50,000 to foreclose, and they still won't get more than the property is worth (Bill is correct the market is the market after all).  A short sale would have less of a negative impact on your credit report long term than a foreclosure. It's at least worth a try.  If you go this route, make sure that the Realtor that you use has knowledge of the short sale process and knows what they're doing, so as not to waste time..  They need to be able to work well with the asset manager in the loss mitigation department of your bank.
 
A lot of people are going through this.  It's a real nightmare!  Know all your options before going forward with a forclosure.  Best of luck, 
 
Lili O'Day
Broker Associate  IL &FL
 
 

________________________________
 
From:5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:23 AM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...
Merry,

Thanks for getting back to us.

People all over the country are having the same experience you just went through -- no one will pay anything near what the owner has in the house. And it just gets worse.

There is nothing home-owners can do but let the banks eat the losses.

You clearly did everything you could do, and still you didn't come close to the value the bank appraisers told you your home was worth when you took your mortgage.

Many, many people are in the same boat, and more discover they are in this boat every day.

The only thing that makes sense is for home owners to walk away from these homes and mortgages, and that is what I am recommending to all who finds themselves in the same same situation you are in.

At some point everyone will realize that ALL mortgages must be re-set to reflect current values, and that we will all have to pay for it.  (That is already going on in terms of bank bailouts--but the process has not fairly reached down to homeowners who would be foolish to continue paying outsized mortgages on homes that will not again be worth what they paid for a long time.)

At some point inflation will kick in again, and home prices will again return to what they were -- but that process could take a decade.  No one can say.

In the meantime, go through the bankruptcy with the knowledge that you did everything you could to avoid it.  The prices you were offered for your home are the most anyone could get at this time, and you know you cannot afford to wait for times to change.  

We will all have to rebuild our finances, and I'm sure programs will develop to ease the rebuilding for those hardest hit.

Check in with us from time to time to let us know how you are doing.  As new resources develop for people with "upside-down" mortgages, we will be talking about them, and how they alter the home-selling market.  So many people share your dilemma, this country will have to develop remedies -- and when they do, you can be sure there will be a lot of people on this Forum prepared to vouch for you.

Regards,

Bill Effros
Author

Merry McConnell wrote: 
Hello Bill,

The sale is over and the highest bid was too low for me to accept.  I kept my appointment with the lawyer this morning, but on different terms.  I'm starting the process for bankruptcy and foreclosure...and it does not feel good.

The sale in itself was a wonderful experience.  We really felt we had at least six serious bidders, but they all wanted to 'steal' the property instead of buy it.  We had a total of 69 responses and
about 40 people come through.  There were 16 names on the bidding sheet and the majority dropped off at the 120,000 mark.  

I still appreciate discovering this method for selling, because I've learned so much through the process.  There's always a possibility that I could have put a 'by owner' sale sign out front and 
attracted people with a different price range in their minds, because even though I can hear you say over and over that the low bid I received is the FMV, I feel I attracted people focused on the
109,500 I advertised.  Forgive me!  

I've run out of time and I have my friend here with me for one more week.  I could make a last ditch effort to run another add for this weekend, but if I do that we wouldn't be able to 'dismantle' my house and move the things out.  

I'm still in disbelief that things didn't work out to at least a reasonable closeness to the low figure I was willing to accept.  The high bid was rediculous and I'm not willing to let someone come in on such a low figure and benefit from my years of hard work and $$$$ worth of improvements.
I'd rather let the bank eat this one.

Thank you again, Bill...really!

Merry






On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
Good going, Merry!

Most of the people who say they're coming back, and say they're going to participate, will not.  Don't be discouraged by this, it doesn't matter.

You will only have 1 final buyer, and 2 others will push that buyer up to fair market value.  All the rest are just window dressing.

The people you are talking to are real.  You are real.  The process is fair.

No matter what the final bid, proceed.

Let the high bidder negotiate with the bank -- just get out of the way, and let both the high bidder and the bank know you are getting out of the way before they start negotiating with each other.

Others may call after the bidding.  Send them along to the bank, too -- but let your high bidder get the first shot at your house.

The price you are offered, even if it is much much lower than you thought it would be, is the current fair market value.  If the bank doesn't accept that fact, they will get to hold onto that house until they learn.  If they do accept it, they will be able to get it, or maybe a little bit more, from your high bidder or one of the other bidders.

In any case, you will have determined the fair market value, and sold your home within 5 days.

And that's the whole point of this exercise.

Bill Effros
Author



Merry McConnell wrote: 
A Quick Update!

Phew!

I had 32 calls by Friday night...and this morning (Sat) the phone has been ringing non-stop.
One person offered a cash offer but I knew better!  Thank goodness read the book!
The house is C L E A N and de-cluttered, good smelling and all lights are ON!  People LOVE
it and I can feel determination to own from three sets.  Oh yeah...

We (my friend and I) are having a ball...loving talking to people and feeling comfortable with the
entire process.  Everyone says they're going in on the Round Robin - only four signed the sheet
but others are bringing back spouses, etc.

All I know is that people are awe-struck with the place and they all 'want' it.  

Thank you, Bill for writing this book...no matter how this works out.

I have my appt. with my lawyer for the contract signing on Monday at 10am...because I just
know I'll need it!

More Later!

Merry

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IF YOU THINK YOU CAN OR YOU THINK YOU CAN'T...YOU'RE RIGHT!  Henry Ford



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-----Inline Message Follows-----


Sorry, I scrolled down further and read the IRS pub (Thanks Jim) on debt forgiveness and issues on recource after sending my email.
 
Rick


 
Questions: 1
) For deed in liu, what are the odds in general and what is the credit hit.  Do they mark "Settled for less.." ? 
 
2)  On short sale, how do you get out of paying taxes on the forgiveness.  You mention that you need to negotiate this, but don't they have to hit you with it by law?  Anything on this in the new laws coming down?  <<SEE IRS PUB 982>> Will be forgiven if primary and limits.
 

-----Inline Message Follows-----


Thanks, Guy.

On another note, we've scheduled our 5 day sale on March 21-22 but we started advertising as of March 1.  We have not revealed the exact location and plan to do so the week of the sale.  We have it on the Times and Craigs List and have gotten about 100 responses both e-mail and phone calls.  I am just wondering if anyone has done this kind of sale in Manhattan on a coop?  Did you actually get the sale price you wanted if you follow the book to the T?

Would appreciate any feedback. 

Thanks,
Glenda


-----Inline Message Follows-----


Jim,
I am working with someone in Florida on a short sale
and when the property sells there will be a significant shortfall /
deficiency.  The property was purchased in a LLC formed in Fla but the Members are from Maryland , and they personally guaranteed the
loan. The Fla 
state law allows them to walk away?  Where can I find documentation to
support that ? Thanks
 
Andrew Silverberg
Broker & Investor
Bethesda, Maryland
 
 

________________________________
 
From:James Fleming [mailto:jamesfleming.realestate at gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:47
PM
To: 'How To Sell Your Home in
5-Days'
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Short
sale
 
Keith ? 
 
An additional thing to know about Washington is that this
state is a non-recourse state.  By state law, Mortgage Lenders are prohibited
from suing borrowers for additional funds following foreclosures.  In some
states, the same is true for short sales.  There are a handful of such
?walk-away? states with anti-deficiency laws.  They are Alaska , Arizona , California , Connecticut , Florida , Idaho , North Carolina , North Dakota , Texas and Utah .
 
Jim Fleming
Realtor & Lecturer
 
VancouverWA
 
 

________________________________
 
From:5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days..com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Keith R. Pinster
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009
10:14 AM
To: 'How To Sell Your Home in
5-Days'
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Short
sale
 
One very important thing about finding the
right realtor to do a short sale for you is their ability to negotiate with the
bank.  If they don?t know how (or thing that it is possible) to make
sure the bank will not issue a 1099-C for the difference between what you owe
and what the short sale price is, FIND A DIFFERENT REALTOR!  Sure, with a
hardship you can get out from under the 1099, but it is much better to not have
to deal with it in the first place.
 
Keith Pinster ? Real Estate
Investor, Vancouver , WA
 

________________________________
 
From:O'Day, Lili [mailto:lili at lilioday.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 8:42
AM
To: How To Sell Your Home in
5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...
 
 
Why not do a short sale instead of a
foreclosure?  The bank will take less than is currently owed on the property
and pay the cost of a Realtor and your attorney costs to do a short sale. 
If normally cost the bank about approx $50,000 to foreclose, and they still
won't get more than the property is worth (Bill is correct the market is the
market after all).  A short sale would have less of a negative impact on
your credit report long term than a foreclosure. It's at least worth a
try.  If you go this route, make sure that the Realtor that you use has
knowledge of the short sale process and knows what they're doing, so as not to
waste time..  They need to be able to work well with the asset manager in
the loss mitigation department of your bank.
 
A lot of people are going through this.  It's a
real nightmare!  Know all your options before going forward with a forclosure. 
Best of luck, 
 
Lili O'Day
Broker Associate  IL &FL
 
 

________________________________
 
From:5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009
10:23 AM
To: How To Sell Your Home in
5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...
Merry,

Thanks for getting back to us.

People all over the country are having the same experience you just went
through -- no one will pay anything near what the owner has in the house. And
it just gets worse.

There is nothing home-owners can do but let the banks eat the losses.

You clearly did everything you could do, and still you didn't come close to the
value the bank appraisers told you your home was worth when you took your
mortgage.

Many, many people are in the same boat, and more discover they are in this boat
every day.

The only thing that makes sense is for home owners to walk away from these
homes and mortgages, and that is what I am recommending to all who finds
themselves in the same same situation you are in.

At some point everyone will realize that ALL mortgages must be re-set to
reflect current values, and that we will all have to pay for it.  (That is
already going on in terms of bank bailouts--but the process has not fairly
reached down to homeowners who would be foolish to continue paying outsized
mortgages on homes that will not again be worth what they paid for a long
time.)

At some point inflation will kick in again, and home prices will again return
to what they were -- but that process could take a decade.  No one can
say.

In the meantime, go through the bankruptcy with the knowledge that you did
everything you could to avoid it.  The prices you were offered for your
home are the most anyone could get at this time, and you know you cannot afford
to wait for times to change.  

We will all have to rebuild our finances, and I'm sure programs will develop to
ease the rebuilding for those hardest hit.

Check in with us from time to time to let us know how you are doing.  As
new resources develop for people with "upside-down" mortgages, we
will be talking about them, and how they alter the home-selling market. 
So many people share your dilemma, this country will have to develop remedies
-- and when they do, you can be sure there will be a lot of people on this
Forum prepared to vouch for you.

Regards,

Bill Effros
Author

Merry McConnell wrote: 
Hello Bill,

The sale is over and the highest bid was too low for me to accept.  I kept
my appointment with the lawyer this morning, but on different terms.  I'm
starting the process for bankruptcy and foreclosure...and it does not feel
good.

The sale in itself was a wonderful experience.  We really felt we had at
least six serious bidders, but they all wanted to 'steal' the property instead
of buy it.  We had a total of 69 responses and
about 40 people come through.  There were 16 names on the bidding sheet
and the majority dropped off at the 120,000 mark.  

I still appreciate discovering this method for selling, because I've learned so
much through the process..  There's always a possibility that I could have
put a 'by owner' sale sign out front and 
attracted people with a different price range in their minds, because even
though I can hear you say over and over that the low bid I received is the FMV,
I feel I attracted people focused on the
109,500 I advertised.  Forgive me!  

I've run out of time and I have my friend here with me for one more week. 
I could make a last ditch effort to run another add for this weekend, but if I
do that we wouldn't be able to 'dismantle' my house and move the things
out.  

I'm still in disbelief that things didn't work out to at least a reasonable
closeness to the low figure I was willing to accept.  The high bid was
rediculous and I'm not willing to let someone come in on such a low figure and
benefit from my years of hard work and $$$$ worth of improvements.
I'd rather let the bank eat this one.

Thank you again, Bill...really!

Merry




On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
wrote:
Good going, Merry!

Most of the people who say they're coming back, and say they're going to
participate, will not.  Don't be discouraged by this, it doesn't matter.

You will only have 1 final buyer, and 2 others will push that buyer up to fair
market value.  All the rest are just window dressing.

The people you are talking to are real.  You are real.  The process
is fair.

No matter what the final bid, proceed..

Let the high bidder negotiate with the bank -- just get out of the way, and let
both the high bidder and the bank know you are getting out of the way before
they start negotiating with each other.

Others may call after the bidding.  Send them along to the bank, too --
but let your high bidder get the first shot at your house.

The price you are offered, even if it is much much lower than you thought it
would be, is the current fair market value.  If the bank doesn't accept
that fact, they will get to hold onto that house until they learn.  If
they do accept it, they will be able to get it, or maybe a little bit more,
from your high bidder or one of the other bidders.

In any case, you will have determined the fair market value, and sold your home
within 5 days.

And that's the whole point of this exercise.

Bill Effros
Author



Merry McConnell wrote: 
A Quick Update!

Phew!

I had 32 calls by Friday night...and this morning (Sat) the phone has been
ringing non-stop.
One person offered a cash offer but I knew better!  Thank goodness read
the book!
The house is C L E A N and de-cluttered, good smelling and all lights are
ON!  People LOVE
it and I can feel determination
to own from three sets.  Oh yeah...

We (my friend and I) are having a ball...loving talking to people and feeling
comfortable with the
entire process.  Everyone says they're going in on the Round Robin - only
four signed the sheet
but others are bringing back spouses, etc.

All I know is that people are awe-struck with the place and they all 'want'
it.  

Thank you, Bill for writing this book...no matter how this works out.

I have my appt. with my lawyer for the contract signing on Monday at
10am...because I just
know I'll need it!

More Later!

Merry
  
  
  
  

________________________________
 

  
  
  
  
  
_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
  

_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum



-- 
IF YOU THINK YOU CAN OR YOU THINK YOU CAN'T...YOU'RE RIGHT!  Henry Ford
  
  
  
  

________________________________
 

  
  
  
  
  
_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
  

-----Inline Message Follows-----


Andrew - 

Most of the discussion on this topic has been as it may relate to homeowners selling their primary residence. Your clients appear to have an investment property. This client should seek compete advice from a FL CPA and/or lawyer that specializes in this area of tax/finance/real estate.


Dac Colden
The KatieDidIt! Team
Keller Williams Realty
Grand Blanc, MI




________________________________
From: Andrew Silverberg <StructureRealty at comcast.net>
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 7:53:12 AM
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Short sale


Jim,
I am working with someone in Florida on a short sale
and when the property sells there will be a significant shortfall /
deficiency.  The property was purchased in a LLC formed in Fla but the Members are from Maryland , and they personally guaranteed the
loan. The Fla 
state law allows them to walk away?  Where can I find documentation to
support that ? Thanks
 
Andrew Silverberg
Broker & Investor
Bethesda, Maryland
 
 

________________________________
 
From:James Fleming [mailto:jamesfleming.realestate at gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:47
PM
To: 'How To Sell Your Home in
5-Days'
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Short
sale
 
Keith ? 
 
An additional thing to know about Washington is that this
state is a non-recourse state.  By state law, Mortgage Lenders are prohibited
from suing borrowers for additional funds following foreclosures.  In some
states, the same is true for short sales.  There are a handful of such
?walk-away? states with anti-deficiency laws.  They are Alaska , Arizona , California , Connecticut , Florida , Idaho , North Carolina , North Dakota , Texas and Utah .
 
Jim Fleming
Realtor & Lecturer
 
VancouverWA
 
 

________________________________
 
From:5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Keith R. Pinster
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009
10:14 AM
To: 'How To Sell Your Home in
5-Days'
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Short
sale
 
One very important thing about finding the
right realtor to do a short sale for you is their ability to negotiate with the
bank.  If they don?t know how (or thing that it is possible) to make
sure the bank will not issue a 1099-C for the difference between what you owe
and what the short sale price is, FIND A DIFFERENT REALTOR!  Sure, with a
hardship you can get out from under the 1099, but it is much better to not have
to deal with it in the first place.
 
Keith Pinster ? Real Estate
Investor, Vancouver , WA
 

________________________________
 
From:O'Day, Lili [mailto:lili at lilioday.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 8:42
AM
To: How To Sell Your Home in
5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...
 
 
Why not do a short sale instead of a
foreclosure?  The bank will take less than is currently owed on the property
and pay the cost of a Realtor and your attorney costs to do a short sale. 
If normally cost the bank about approx $50,000 to foreclose, and they still
won't get more than the property is worth (Bill is correct the market is the
market after all).  A short sale would have less of a negative impact on
your credit report long term than a foreclosure. It's at least worth a
try.  If you go this route, make sure that the Realtor that you use has
knowledge of the short sale process and knows what they're doing, so as not to
waste time..  They need to be able to work well with the asset manager in
the loss mitigation department of your bank.
 
A lot of people are going through this.  It's a
real nightmare!  Know all your options before going forward with a forclosure. 
Best of luck, 
 
Lili O'Day
Broker Associate  IL &FL
 
 

________________________________
 
From:5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009
10:23 AM
To: How To Sell Your Home in
5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...
Merry,

Thanks for getting back to us.

People all over the country are having the same experience you just went
through -- no one will pay anything near what the owner has in the house. And
it just gets worse.

There is nothing home-owners can do but let the banks eat the losses.

You clearly did everything you could do, and still you didn't come close to the
value the bank appraisers told you your home was worth when you took your
mortgage.

Many, many people are in the same boat, and more discover they are in this boat
every day.

The only thing that makes sense is for home owners to walk away from these
homes and mortgages, and that is what I am recommending to all who finds
themselves in the same same situation you are in.

At some point everyone will realize that ALL mortgages must be re-set to
reflect current values, and that we will all have to pay for it.  (That is
already going on in terms of bank bailouts--but the process has not fairly
reached down to homeowners who would be foolish to continue paying outsized
mortgages on homes that will not again be worth what they paid for a long
time.)

At some point inflation will kick in again, and home prices will again return
to what they were -- but that process could take a decade.  No one can
say.

In the meantime, go through the bankruptcy with the knowledge that you did
everything you could to avoid it.  The prices you were offered for your
home are the most anyone could get at this time, and you know you cannot afford
to wait for times to change.  

We will all have to rebuild our finances, and I'm sure programs will develop to
ease the rebuilding for those hardest hit.

Check in with us from time to time to let us know how you are doing.  As
new resources develop for people with "upside-down" mortgages, we
will be talking about them, and how they alter the home-selling market. 
So many people share your dilemma, this country will have to develop remedies
-- and when they do, you can be sure there will be a lot of people on this
Forum prepared to vouch for you.

Regards,

Bill Effros
Author

Merry McConnell wrote: 
Hello Bill,

The sale is over and the highest bid was too low for me to accept.  I kept
my appointment with the lawyer this morning, but on different terms.  I'm
starting the process for bankruptcy and foreclosure...and it does not feel
good.

The sale in itself was a wonderful experience.  We really felt we had at
least six serious bidders, but they all wanted to 'steal' the property instead
of buy it.  We had a total of 69 responses and
about 40 people come through.  There were 16 names on the bidding sheet
and the majority dropped off at the 120,000 mark.  

I still appreciate discovering this method for selling, because I've learned so
much through the process.  There's always a possibility that I could have
put a 'by owner' sale sign out front and 
attracted people with a different price range in their minds, because even
though I can hear you say over and over that the low bid I received is the FMV,
I feel I attracted people focused on the
109,500 I advertised.  Forgive me!  

I've run out of time and I have my friend here with me for one more week. 
I could make a last ditch effort to run another add for this weekend, but if I
do that we wouldn't be able to 'dismantle' my house and move the things
out.  

I'm still in disbelief that things didn't work out to at least a reasonable
closeness to the low figure I was willing to accept.  The high bid was
rediculous and I'm not willing to let someone come in on such a low figure and
benefit from my years of hard work and $$$$ worth of improvements.
I'd rather let the bank eat this one.

Thank you again, Bill...really!

Merry




On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
wrote:
Good going, Merry!

Most of the people who say they're coming back, and say they're going to
participate, will not.  Don't be discouraged by this, it doesn't matter.

You will only have 1 final buyer, and 2 others will push that buyer up to fair
market value.  All the rest are just window dressing.

The people you are talking to are real.  You are real.  The process
is fair.

No matter what the final bid, proceed.

Let the high bidder negotiate with the bank -- just get out of the way, and let
both the high bidder and the bank know you are getting out of the way before
they start negotiating with each other.

Others may call after the bidding.  Send them along to the bank, too --
but let your high bidder get the first shot at your house.

The price you are offered, even if it is much much lower than you thought it
would be, is the current fair market value.  If the bank doesn't accept
that fact, they will get to hold onto that house until they learn.  If
they do accept it, they will be able to get it, or maybe a little bit more,
from your high bidder or one of the other bidders.

In any case, you will have determined the fair market value, and sold your home
within 5 days.

And that's the whole point of this exercise.

Bill Effros
Author



Merry McConnell wrote: 
A Quick Update!

Phew!

I had 32 calls by Friday night....and this morning (Sat) the phone has been
ringing non-stop.
One person offered a cash offer but I knew better!  Thank goodness read
the book!
The house is C L E A N and de-cluttered, good smelling and all lights are
ON!  People LOVE
it and I can feel determination
to own from three sets.  Oh yeah...

We (my friend and I) are having a ball...loving talking to people and feeling
comfortable with the
entire process.  Everyone says they're going in on the Round Robin - only
four signed the sheet
but others are bringing back spouses, etc.

All I know is that people are awe-struck with the place and they all 'want'
it.  

Thank you, Bill for writing this book...no matter how this works out.

I have my appt. with my lawyer for the contract signing on Monday at
10am...because I just
know I'll need it!

More Later!

Merry
  
  
  
  

________________________________
 

  
  
  
  
  
_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing
 list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
  

_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum



-- 
IF YOU THINK YOU CAN OR YOU THINK YOU CAN'T...YOU'RE RIGHT!  Henry Ford
  
  
  
  

________________________________
 

  
  
  
  
  
_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing
 list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
  


-----Inline Message Follows-----


Title XL Chapter 702 of Florida Statutes
regarding foreclosures:
 
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0702/titl0702.htm&StatuteYear=2008&Title=%2D%3E2008%2D%3EChapter%20702
 
Also, the lender ?may? sue for
deficiency judgment as Florida 
laws do allow for deficiency judgment:
 
http://www.foreclosurelaw.org/Florida_Foreclosure_Law.htm
 
Have them seek legal and tax advice as
they probably will be zinged with income taxes for the forgiven amount since
the property is not a primary residence.
 
-Naji
 

________________________________
 
From:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Silverberg
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009
7:53 AM
To: ' How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days '
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Short
sale
 
Jim,
I am working with someone in Florida on a short sale
and when the property sells there will be a significant shortfall /
deficiency.  The property was purchased in a LLC formed in Fla but the Members are from Maryland , and they personally guaranteed the
loan. The Fla 
state law allows them to walk away?  Where can I find documentation to
support that ? Thanks
 
Andrew Silverberg
Broker & Investor
Bethesda, Maryland
 
 

________________________________
 
From:James Fleming [mailto:jamesfleming.realestate at gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:47
PM
To: ' How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days '
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Short
sale
 
Keith ? 
 
An additional thing to know about Washington is that this
state is a non-recourse state.  By state law, Mortgage Lenders are
prohibited from suing borrowers for additional funds following
foreclosures.  In some states, the same is true for short sales. 
There are a handful of such ?walk-away? states with anti-deficiency
laws.  They are Alaska , Arizona , California , Connecticut , Florida , Idaho , North Carolina , North Dakota , Texas and Utah .
 
Jim Fleming
Realtor & Lecturer
 
VancouverWA
 
 

________________________________
 
From:5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail..com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Keith R. Pinster
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009
10:14 AM
To: ' How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days '
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Short
sale
 
One very important thing about finding the
right realtor to do a short sale for you is their ability to negotiate with the
bank.  If they don?t know how (or thing that it is possible) to make
sure the bank will not issue a 1099-C for the difference between what you owe
and what the short sale price is, FIND A DIFFERENT REALTOR!  Sure, with a
hardship you can get out from under the 1099, but it is much better to not have
to deal with it in the first place.
 
Keith Pinster ? Real Estate
Investor, Vancouver , WA
 

________________________________
 
From:O'Day, Lili [mailto:lili at lilioday.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 8:42
AM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...
 
 
Why not do a short sale instead of a
foreclosure?  The bank will take less than is currently owed on the
property and pay the cost of a Realtor and your attorney costs to do a short
sale.  If normally cost the bank about approx $50,000 to foreclose, and
they still won't get more than the property is worth (Bill is correct the
market is the market after all).  A short sale would have less of a
negative impact on your credit report long term than a foreclosure. It's at
least worth a try.  If you go this route, make sure that the Realtor that
you use has knowledge of the short sale process and knows what they're doing,
so as not to waste time..  They need to be able to work well with the
asset manager in the loss mitigation department of your bank.
 
A lot of people are going through this.  It's a
real nightmare!  Know all your options before going forward with a
forclosure.  Best of luck, 
 
Lili O'Day
Broker Associate  IL &FL
 
 

________________________________
 
From:5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009
10:23 AM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...
Merry,

Thanks for getting back to us.

People all over the country are having the same experience you just went
through -- no one will pay anything near what the owner has in the house. And
it just gets worse.

There is nothing home-owners can do but let the banks eat the losses.

You clearly did everything you could do, and still you didn't come close to the
value the bank appraisers told you your home was worth when you took your
mortgage.

Many, many people are in the same boat, and more discover they are in this boat
every day.

The only thing that makes sense is for home owners to walk away from these
homes and mortgages, and that is what I am recommending to all who finds
themselves in the same same situation you are in.

At some point everyone will realize that ALL mortgages must be re-set to
reflect current values, and that we will all have to pay for it.  (That is
already going on in terms of bank bailouts--but the process has not fairly
reached down to homeowners who would be foolish to continue paying outsized
mortgages on homes that will not again be worth what they paid for a long
time.)

At some point inflation will kick in again, and home prices will again return
to what they were -- but that process could take a decade.  No one can
say.

In the meantime, go through the bankruptcy with the knowledge that you did
everything you could to avoid it.  The prices you were offered for your
home are the most anyone could get at this time, and you know you cannot afford
to wait for times to change.  

We will all have to rebuild our finances, and I'm sure programs will develop to
ease the rebuilding for those hardest hit.

Check in with us from time to time to let us know how you are doing.  As
new resources develop for people with "upside-down" mortgages, we
will be talking about them, and how they alter the home-selling market. 
So many people share your dilemma, this country will have to develop remedies
-- and when they do, you can be sure there will be a lot of people on this
Forum prepared to vouch for you.

Regards,

Bill Effros
Author

Merry McConnell wrote: 
Hello Bill,

The sale is over and the highest bid was too low for me to accept.  I kept
my appointment with the lawyer this morning, but on different terms.  I'm
starting the process for bankruptcy and foreclosure...and it does not feel
good.

The sale in itself was a wonderful experience.  We really felt we had at
least six serious bidders, but they all wanted to 'steal' the property instead
of buy it.  We had a total of 69 responses and
about 40 people come through.  There were 16 names on the bidding sheet
and the majority dropped off at the 120,000 mark.  

I still appreciate discovering this method for selling, because I've learned so
much through the process.  There's always a possibility that I could have
put a 'by owner' sale sign out front and 
attracted people with a different price range in their minds, because even
though I can hear you say over and over that the low bid I received is the FMV,
I feel I attracted people focused on the
109,500 I advertised.  Forgive me!  

I've run out of time and I have my friend here with me for one more week. 
I could make a last ditch effort to run another add for this weekend, but if I
do that we wouldn't be able to 'dismantle' my house and move the things
out.  

I'm still in disbelief that things didn't work out to at least a reasonable
closeness to the low figure I was willing to accept.  The high bid was
rediculous and I'm not willing to let someone come in on such a low figure and
benefit from my years of hard work and $$$$ worth of improvements.
I'd rather let the bank eat this one.

Thank you again, Bill...really!

Merry



On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
wrote:
Good going, Merry!

Most of the people who say they're coming back, and say they're going to
participate, will not.  Don't be discouraged by this, it doesn't matter.

You will only have 1 final buyer, and 2 others will push that buyer up to fair
market value.  All the rest are just window dressing.

The people you are talking to are real.  You are real.  The process
is fair.

No matter what the final bid, proceed..

Let the high bidder negotiate with the bank -- just get out of the way, and let
both the high bidder and the bank know you are getting out of the way before
they start negotiating with each other.

Others may call after the bidding.  Send them along to the bank, too --
but let your high bidder get the first shot at your house.

The price you are offered, even if it is much much lower than you thought it
would be, is the current fair market value.  If the bank doesn't accept
that fact, they will get to hold onto that house until they learn.  If
they do accept it, they will be able to get it, or maybe a little bit more,
from your high bidder or one of the other bidders.

In any case, you will have determined the fair market value, and sold your home
within 5 days.

And that's the whole point of this exercise.

Bill Effros
Author



Merry McConnell wrote: 
A Quick Update!

Phew!

I had 32 calls by Friday night...and this morning (Sat) the phone has been
ringing non-stop.
One person offered a cash offer but I knew better!  Thank goodness read
the book!
The house is C L E A N and de-cluttered, good smelling and all lights are
ON!  People LOVE
it and I can feel determination
to own from three sets.  Oh yeah...

We (my friend and I) are having a ball...loving talking to people and feeling
comfortable with the
entire process.  Everyone says they're going in on the Round Robin - only
four signed the sheet
but others are bringing back spouses, etc.

All I know is that people are awe-struck with the place and they all 'want'
it.  

Thank you, Bill for writing this book...no matter how this works out.

I have my appt. with my lawyer for the contract signing on Monday at
10am...because I just
know I'll need it!

More Later!

Merry
  
  
  
  
  
  

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-- 
IF YOU THINK YOU CAN OR YOU THINK YOU CAN'T...YOU'RE RIGHT!  Henry Ford
  
  
  
  
  
  

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-----Inline Message Follows-----


Naji & Your Reator Friend,
 
I joined this forum to learn about people's 
experience with the 5 Day Sale format
 
Not to listen to you two squabble .....
 
Please take your debate some place else and out of 
my inbox.
 
Thank-you,
 
Wade Fenner
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Naji 
To: 'How To Sell  Your Home in 5-Days' 
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 8:01 
PM
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you  shouldn't protect the broker

-          Correction? I know  exactly what I?m talking about. Usually a nerve is struck when the truth is  told.. 
-          No BS  here, just facts? Read the Nine Pillars of The Citadel first or a paper by  Mark S. Nadel http://aei-brookings.org/admin/authorpdfs/redirect-safely.php?fname=../pdffiles/phpXf.pdf
-          No  problem with ALL realtors? Problem with a broken monopolistic  model.
-          No bone  to pick and No envy
-          I  wouldn?t call an agent to show me a property unless they charge a flat fee for  their service just as I would only use a financial advisor that only charges a  flat fee as well. BTW, I use an agent that simply charges a FLAT FEE for their  FULL SERVICE every time I buy an investment property or any other property?  Why you may ask? Because they only charge $2,995 and rebate the difference  when a commission is offered
-          No, you  did not hit a nerve, but thank you for asking
-          Incorrect again? When  I decide to purchase a property, it?s purely from an investment point of  view... If the price is right and it makes sense financially, then I move  forward? It?s doesn?t matter if it?s FSBO, REO, MLS, SS, or any other type it  may be.
 
As Upton Sinclair  said ?It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary  depends on him not understanding it.?
 
-Naji
 
 

________________________________
 
From:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com  [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Don  Lynch
Sent: Monday, March 09,  2009 9:33 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in  5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you  shouldn't protect the broker
 
Naji, You HAVE struck a nerve because you don't  know what you are talking about. The BS is spewing from where you stand..  Again, I don't know what your problem with realtor's is (full service or  otherwise) but I do know you have some kind of bone to pick, maybe some kind  of envy. I bet you would have no trouble calling an agent to glean as much  information about a property and even have him show it to you, and then turn  around and circumvent him/her. Did I hit a nerve? Another question....when you  are looking for a property to buy and you find out it is a FSBO do you  automatically in your mind subtract 6% from the offer? I'll bet you  do.
 
Signed, an honest hard working (with no conflict of  interest, perceived or otherwise) realtor
----- Original Message ----- 
From:Naji 
To:'How To Sell  Your Home in 5-Days' 
Sent:Monday,  March 09, 2009 9:21 PM
Subject:Re:  [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the  broker
 
Jim,
 
Obviously I hit a  sensitive nerve with many Realtors on this issue? You and I know that in the  Realtors world, it?s all about protecting the commission, period. So, let?s  not fool ourselves with the standard NAR BS and scare tactics that?s been  circulating for many decades? The big stock brokerage firms used to say the  same thing about the E-Trade?s and Ameritrade?s of the world? where are Bear  Stearns and Merrill Lynch today? Same thing was said about Wal-Mart,  Amazon.com, Google, and many more industry leaders that decided to get away  from the antiquated business as usual model. 
 
Regarding conflict  of interest? It doesn?t matter how many laws are written, or how many  disclosures are signed, a conflict of interest automatically exists? You  don?t get paid unless the house sells? Therefore, whether a sale is a good  move or a bad move for the buyer or seller, it doesn?t matter because you  don?t get paid if the sale doesn?t close. I know this is difficult to  understand, but I think Author Upton Sinclair explains it best ?It is  difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on  him not understanding it.?
 
Did you read Nine  Pillars of the Citadel?
 
Every monopoly will  eventually be broken? The stranglehold of the NAR will as well?. The sooner  the average American consumer gets educated the sooner this will  happen.
 
Best  regards,
 
-Naji
 

________________________________
 
From:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com  [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of James  Fleming
Sent: Monday, March  09, 2009 8:12 PM
To: ' How To Sell Your Home in  5-Days '
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you  shouldn't protect the broker
 
Thank you Lauri for  your posting.  I agree with you that the portrayal of doctors and  lawyers as professionals who charge simple flat fees is incorrect.   Anyone who has ever worked at a law firm or medical facility knows  better.  Anyone who has ever had serious legal or medical bills knows  better.  
 
Furthermore,  lawyers and doctors are not paid based on results.  Whether a lawyer  wins or loses, you pay.  Whether a doctor heals you or not, you  pay.  They get paid handsomely whether they succeed or fail.  It  would be difficult to design an arrangement more laden with potential  conflict of interest issues.  If you doubt this, just look at the  amount of mal-practice and E & O coverage that these professions  carry.  
 
Naji, to emphasize  the inequity of a 6% Realtor commission, states that ?If a doctor, attorney,  plumber, or iron worker was to charge 6% of the average American?s largest  asset, I would not use them either.?  Sounds compelling until you  really think about it.  What doctors and lawyers (I?m leaving out  plumbers and iron workers because, in my opinion, they were included to make  a point but really have no place in the argument) charge is often several  times more than 100% of the average Americans largest asset.  Think  about it.  How many bankruptcies are filed every day by average  Americans because of medical and/or legal bills?  Actually, it might  eliminate a large percentage of bankruptcy filings if we could limit our  medical/legal bills to 6% of our most valuable asset in the event of major  health and legal issues.  I like it.
 
Turning to  conflicts of interest, the laws of agency in real estate transactions were  written largely for the purpose of eliminating conflicts of interest.   These laws now apply in every state.  In practice today, Realtors  either represent sellers or they represent buyers.  The exception to  this occurs when the Realtor acts as a ?dual agent?.   In  instances of dual agency, however, the Realtor must act neutrally.   S/he may not advocate for either party, but instead must simply conduct that  transaction at the direction of both being careful not to be pulled into  conflicts of interest along the way.  If one comes up, it must be  disclosed to both parties.
 
Naji, however,  points to a few examples of conflicts of interest that are different from  above.  I?d like to address a couple of them.  Naji mentions, for  example, ?If you?re not charging a FLAT FEE for your services, you  automatically have a built-in conflict of interest, period!! Just like the  financial advisor that doesn?t charge a flat fee, the car salesperson, the  annuity agent, etc??  I would suggest that whether any of these people  are paid on a commission or on a flat fee basis, their job is to sell you  products and services.  Your job as the buyer is to make informed  decisions.  The sales people do not represent you, the buyer, in any of  these examples.  If Naji?s point is that the sales person will try to  sell the product or service that pays the most commission, then again, it is  up to the buyer to sort through this and make an informed  decision.
 
The advantage in  real estate is that you can have an advocate whether you are a buyer or a  seller.  Seller?s agents manage their listings with the goal of pricing  them properly and marketing them extensively.  They never know what the  mix of buyers is at any point in time.  When a buyer comes along, they  do everything they can to promote the best interests of their client ? the  seller.  Equally, when a buyer?s agent presents an offer on behalf of a  client, it is the buyer?s interests that the agent promotes above all.   Each of these agents has a fiduciary responsibility to their respective  client.  This is true whether your Realtor is working for a flat fee or  for a commission.
 
As a practical  consideration, many flat fee brokerages are what are called ?limited  service? brokerages.  In other words, they offer a menu of services  from which their clients can choose.  Clients only pay for what they  get.  For example, the brokerage may have one fee for listing your  property in the MLS, another for placing a sign in your yard, another for  flyers, another for a lockbox, another for advertising online, another for  showing your property to buyers, another for conducting open houses, yet  another for negotiating the sale with the buyer?s agent, and so on.   Generally, firms with this approach find it hard to stay in business as  evidenced by the recent (and third) bankruptcy filing of Help-U-Sell.   They tend to appeal to uninformed first- time sellers or financially  strapped sellers who are desperate and don?t know what they don?t  know.  
 
These two groups of  sellers typically believe that real estate agents are paid too much for the  services they provide.  They typically argue their point by using  hypothetical comparisons. They point to the associated costs of sales made  with and without full service Realtors.  They either point to the  increased money that one can make if a Realtor is excluded from the  equation, or the decreased amount they can get for their house while still  making the same net amount if they had sold it for more using a  Realtor.  In the abstract, the same argument can be made for  representing yourself in court, or doing your own dental fillings.  In  the real world, however, ALL of life?s issues come into play.  People,  who make decisions based upon hypothetical or artificial constructs, greatly  increase their chances of unintended consequences.  Unfortunately,  these are often the same people who, as kids, had to discover for themselves  the perils of
 touching a hot stove.
 
Jim Fleming,  Realtor and Lecturer
Vancouver, WA
 
 

________________________________
 
From:5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com  [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman..howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Soak Up the  Sun
Sent: Monday, March 09,  2009 2:21 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in  5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you  shouldn't protect the broker
 
I don't usually have a lot to say on the forums,  however, I read all the posts.
I have to say, if you think Doctors and  Lawyers charge flat fees, you are sorely mistaken.
I'm glad that you are  happy with the flat fee real estate person that you are using, and hope that  they continue to meet your 
needs..
Lauri
 

________________________________
 
From:Naji  <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>
To: How To  Sell Your Home in 5-Days  <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 11:38:02  AM
Subject: Re:  [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the  broker
Dear PO ?d Realtor,
 
I don?t have a  problem with ALL Realtors? I have a problem with Realtors that charge a  commission due to the built-in conflict of interest? I will continue to use  Realtors that charge a fair FLAT FEE for their  services.
 
-          Doctors ? No  commissions
-          Attorneys ? No  commissions
-          Plumbers ? No  commissions
-          Iron Workers ? No  commissions
-          Etc?
 
If a doctor,  attorney, plumber, or iron worker was to charge 6% of the average American?s  largest asset, I would not use them either. As for the MLS, the cost  associated with using the MLS is minimal for any licensed real estate agent,  plus you don?t have to be part of NAR or Local Realtor Association to have  access to MLS? Additionally, gathering all the ?information? you are talking  about takes minutes online.
 
If you?re not  charging a FLAT FEE for your services, you automatically have a built-in  conflict of interest, period!! Just like the financial advisor that doesn?t  charge a flat fee, the car salesperson, the annuity agent,  etc?
 
My agent charges a  FLAT FEE (Full service agent) of 2,995 regardless of the sale price? Which  means, that she gets 2,995 for a house that sells for 200K or 2Million  whether she finds the buyer or another agent finds the buyer? Hence, NO  CONFLICT OF INTEREST and every home gets the same amount of HARD  WORK!!
 
Best  wishes,
 
-Naji
 
 
 
 

________________________________
 
From:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com  [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Don  Lynch
Sent: Monday, March  09, 2009 12:16 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in  5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Why you  shouldn't protect the broker
 
I don't know what your problem  is with  realtors. Maybe you need to team up with Obama and go after doctors,  lawyers, plumbers, iron workers, etc. etc. If you don't like  realtors...DON'T USE THEM! And I don't know where you get your figures  from because I work my butt off to makeover $50k....it isn't as easy as you  think. MLS is a proprietary system set up for realtors. If you want access  to sales  go to the tax records and assemble the info yourself...this  work and effort is not FREE! Again, if you think realtors are ripping you  off, don't use them.
 
Signed, a hard working honest  realtor...
----- Original Message ----- 
From:Naji 
To:5-dayforum at howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
Sent:Monday, March 09, 2009 12:03 PM
Subject:[5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the  broker
 
Good article regarding the NAR  and their monopolistic hold? This was written in 2005 and many laws and  lawsuits against the NAR have been won since then that have changed a few  things but much more needs to be done to have a fair  system:
 
http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/public/workshops/rewcom/213351.htm
 
 
 
 
 

________________________________
 
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Donald C. Lynch
500 Smokey Hollow  Drive
Waxhaw , NC  28173
(704)  843-1392 - Office
(704) 243-3971 - fax
(407) 257-7845 - cell
(800)  880-7845
(704) 843-8325 - home
dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/

________________________________
 
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Donald C. Lynch
500 Smokey Hollow Drive
Waxhaw , NC 28173
(704) 843-1392 -  Office
(704) 243-3971 - fax
(407) 257-7845 - cell
(800)  880-7845
(704) 843-8325 - home
dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com
http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/
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-----Inline Message Follows-----

Glenda,

I've sold co-ops in NYC for years.

You are defeating yourself by advertising early.

You can never get the sale price you want if you want more than the
market says your co-op is currently worth.

I always got more than I expected because I had reasonable expectations
for the market I was selling into, and ran my 5-Day sale exactly as
described in the book.

Bill Effros
Author

V Glenda wrote: 
Thanks, Guy.

On another note, we've scheduled our 5 day sale on March 21-22
but we started advertising as of March 1.  We have not revealed the
exact location and plan to do so the week of the sale.  We have it on
the Times and Craigs List and have gotten about 100 responses both
e-mail and phone calls.  I am just wondering if anyone has done this
kind of sale in Manhattan on a coop?  Did you actually get the sale
price you wanted if you follow the book to the T?

Would appreciate any feedback. 

Thanks,
Glenda


________________________________

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5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum 

-----Inline Message Follows-----


I have a 1300 square commerical building which was 
a barber/beauty shop, but could be used for office or small retail. It is 
in rural small town in Michigan (population 2300). 
 
I own it free and clear. Do you think the 5 Day 
plan would work for selling this business. 
 
Please respond to mnorris358 at yahoo.com. as my mutualdata in 
coming mail server is not working.
 
thanks

-----Inline Message Follows-----


Glenda,
Bill is definitely the expert, but I am a little thick I guess.  As long as you aren't giving out the address, I don't see what's wrong in accumulating names of people that you can contact when the sale weekend arrives.  Bill said this is a big waste of time and unlikely that you will find the ultimate buyer in this group.  I understand it is extra work, but if you are willing to do it, you might just add some serious people to your open house who might otherwise miss the 5 day advertising.   I'm thinking of is as a way to enhance my advertising, not a way to cheat the system.
Tom Garter (owner, soon to be 5 day sale operator)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
To: "How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days" <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 11:02:09 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] 5 Day Sale in Manhattan

Glenda,

I've sold co-ops in NYC for years.

You are defeating yourself by advertising early.

You can never get the sale price you want if you want more than the
market says your co-op is currently worth.

I always got more than I expected because I had reasonable expectations
for the market I was selling into, and ran my 5-Day sale exactly as
described in the book.

Bill Effros
Author

V Glenda wrote: 
Thanks, Guy.

On another note, we've scheduled our 5 day sale on March 21-22
but we started advertising as of March 1.  We have not revealed the
exact location and plan to do so the week of the sale.  We have it on
the Times and Craigs List and have gotten about 100 responses both
e-mail and phone calls.  I am just wondering if anyone has done this
kind of sale in Manhattan on a coop?  Did you actually get the sale
price you wanted if you follow the book to the T?

Would appreciate any feedback. 

Thanks,
Glenda


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From lili at lilioday.com  Wed Mar 11 23:20:10 2009
From: lili at lilioday.com (O'Day, Lili)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 23:20:10 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] A very unique land sale
In-Reply-To: <655528.4254.qm@web65716.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <E8687DEB9C959E488879896C3F6D001121698D8F@winxbeus12.exchange.xchg>

If it would be helpful., I can go through my member directories to see who specializes in your area and give you some referrals that you could contact. I have a who's who in international real estate directory to pinpoint a specialist who can help

Lili

Lili O'Day
Broker Associate
CRS,GRI,E-PRO,TRC
CIPS,CSC,FIABCI
Re/Max Results
239-449-8460 direct
708-878-9097 cell
lili at lilioday.com<mailto:lili at lilioday.com>
http://www.lilioday.remax.com<http://www.lilioday.remax.com/>



________________________________
From: 5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Steve Bogensberger
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 8:45 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] A very unique land sale

Thank you kindly Lili,

I am very grateful for the suggestion and direction at first blush it makes complete sense for my property characteristics! I had never heard of the organizations that you mentioned, but I have immediately bookmarked them and have already started investigating the path you suggested.

Take good care,
Steve




________________________________
From: "O'Day, Lili" <lili at lilioday.com>
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 8:43:56 PM
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] A very unique land sale

This is the type of property that I've seen marketed through the FIABCI and CIPS networks.  FIABCI is an international organization with headquarters in Paris (worldwide) with several thousand members who have clients looking for specialized and unique properties  and luxury homes all over the world...This is a network of international property specialists who cooperate worldwide, on every continent, with the ability to send an e-mail blast to every member across the world..There are also regular meetings and conferences where these properties are marketed .CIPS candidates are Certified International Property Specialists (candidates, again are worldwide), with years of international experience marketing to a global market.  I'm a member of both organizations, and have seen some very unique properties sell.  Your buyer for this type of property could potentially come from any corner of the earth, and your ability to get the message out about the uniqueness is very limited on your own.  By exposing your property to a larger international audience, I think you would get a higher price.

I'm a fan of the 5 day sale, but with regard to your property, I don't think you can reach a large enough audience.

Lili

Lili O'Day
Broker Associate
CRS,GRI,E-PRO,TRC
CIPS,CSC,FIABCI
Re/Max Results
239-449-8460 direct
708-878-9097 cell
lili at lilioday.com<mailto:lili at lilioday.com>
http://www.lilioday.remax.com<http://www.lilioday.remax.com/>



________________________________
From: 5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 6:15 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] A very unique land sale

Did anyone get back to this guy?

Bill Effros

(Catching up on email again...)

Steven Bogensberger wrote:
Hi there,
I have just read the book, joined the forum and  perused through the archives and yet I am not %100 sure if there is value in using the 5-day method in my case.  Here is the story.
I own a group of islands (4 islands) on a very desirable cottage country lake in Canada.  They have many desirable features not least of which is the fact that it has the furthest distance to a neighbour of any property in the region and being islands that will not change until the polar ice caps melt. Other intangibles include: located in a UNESCO world heritage site, resident Osprey family, best deep clear water access in lake system, renowned bass fishing (annual professional tournaments held on the lake) and of course the cache of being able to say you own a group of islands.
All that being said the property is so unique that there literally are no sufficient comps or historical data on the property itself that evaluating the property has been extremely difficult.  To add to the problem I purchased the property from a person who bought it 1965 at a price that was not much more than they paid for it then.  It was a purely emotional sale for them and money was not an issue so they sold it to me for surely far less than it was worth. For the record If I had any other choice I wouldn't be selling it but financial stress has forced my hand.
45 years later I have had it evaluated by appraisers, agents and banks and have had a range of response from 45,000 to 255,000.  Needless to say I am no further ahead.
The problem is I want to find a "true" market value and thought the 5-day sale might just do it (although due to the uniqueness there are only so many people in the market at any given time for a group of islands)...without the 5-day sale though I feel I am left to only being able to trust my gut...which certainly won't be accurate.
I know that 5-day sales are not recommended for land sales, but I thought maybe even a hybrid/modified version might work in this case.
PLEASE ADVISE!  :o)
Any other suggestions also would be greatly appreciated.
Steve.
P.S. enjoyed the book and plan on running a five day sale with my buddy's house.

________________________________

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From kelseyuh at gmail.com  Thu Mar 12 04:17:01 2009
From: kelseyuh at gmail.com (kelsey uh)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 04:17:01 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] 5 Day Sale in Manhattan
Message-ID: <007701c9a2ea$edbaa950$4df3fea9@es>

 

I have been helping Glenda with marketing. I am her friend.

 

I have a real estate agent license. If Glenda goes on business trip on the
inspection days, can I do the auction and round robin for her? Is it legal
in NY state? 

 

Your response will be highly appreciated, as I have no time to check with
county clerks and lawyers.

 

Thanks,

Kelsey

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From azsayani at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 10 18:57:14 2009
From: azsayani at yahoo.com (SAYANI)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 15:57:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [5-DayForum] Home Affordable Modification Program
Message-ID: <686721.26492.qm@web111407.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Bill:
I have seen couple of posts about short sales but haven't heard anyone talking about the above program started by the government on March 4 and almost anyone with any income is eligible for it. Here are the details: http://www.treas.gov/press/releases/reports/modification_program_guidelines.pdf
?
There is no LTV (Loan to Value) or equity requirements and people who are current on their payments as well as those in foreclosure proceedings are eligible.
?
Ahmed Sayani


--- On Tue, 3/10/09, 5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com> wrote:


From: 5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Subject: 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 13
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Date: Tuesday, March 10, 2009, 4:21 PM


Send 5-DayForum mailing list submissions to
??? 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
??? http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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You can reach the person managing the list at
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of 5-DayForum digest..."

Today's Topics:

???1. Short Sale was Sale in Progress... (Bill Effros)
???2. Re: Short Sales/Other Options (Bill Effros)
???3. Re: Sale in Progress... (leslie rundquist)
???4. Re: 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 11 (Gary St. Armand)
???5. Re: Sale in Progress... (Naji)
???6. Re: 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 11 (Don Lynch)
???7. Re: Short sale (Keith R. Pinster)
???8. Re: Short sale (James Fleming)
???9. Re: Short sale (James Fleming)
? 10. Re: Short sale (Naji)

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From steve_bog at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 12 10:43:42 2009
From: steve_bog at yahoo.com (Steve Bogensberger)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 07:43:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [5-DayForum] A very unique land sale
References: <E8687DEB9C959E488879896C3F6D001121698D8F@winxbeus12.exchange.xchg>
Message-ID: <617014.68566.qm@web65711.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

Thank you Lili,

The location of the property is situated in the?center of the triangle formed?by the Cities of Toronto, Ottawa, and Montreal.? The region is commonly refered to as the Rideau Lakes?and is situated on the Rideau Canal, smaller cities that are closer are Brockville and Kingston.

Any information would be greatly appreciated of course!

Thank you again,
Steve




________________________________
From: "O'Day, Lili" <lili at lilioday.com>
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 11:20:10 PM
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] A very unique land sale


If it would be helpful., I can go through my member directories to see who specializes in your area and give you some referrals that you could contact. I have a who's who in international real estate directory to pinpoint a specialist who can help
?
Lili

Lili O'Day
Broker Associate
CRS,GRI,E-PRO,TRC
CIPS,CSC,FIABCI
Re/Max Results
239-449-8460 direct
708-878-9097 cell
lili at lilioday.com
http://www.lilioday.remax.com




________________________________
From: 5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Steve Bogensberger
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 8:45 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] A very unique land sale


Thank you kindly Lili, 

I am very grateful for the suggestion and direction at first blush it makes complete sense for my property characteristics! I had never heard of the organizations that you mentioned, but I have immediately bookmarked them and have already started investigating the path you suggested.

Take good care,
Steve


?



________________________________
From: "O'Day, Lili" <lili at lilioday.com>
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 8:43:56 PM
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] A very unique land sale


This is the type of property that I've seen marketed through the FIABCI and CIPS networks.? FIABCI is an international organization with headquarters in Paris (worldwide) with several thousand members who have clients looking for specialized and unique properties? and luxury homes all over the world...This is a network of international property specialists?who cooperate?worldwide, on every continent, with the ability to send an e-mail blast to every member across the world..There are also regular meetings and conferences where these properties are marketed .CIPS candidates are Certified International Property Specialists (candidates, again?are worldwide), with years of international experience marketing to a?global market.? I'm a member of both organizations, and have seen some very unique properties sell.? Your buyer for this type of property could potentially come from any corner of the earth, and your ability to get the message out about the
 uniqueness is very limited on your own.??By exposing your property to a larger international?audience, I think you would get a higher price. 
?
I'm a fan of the 5 day sale, but with regard to your property, I don't think you can reach a large enough audience.
?
Lili
?
Lili O'Day
Broker Associate
CRS,GRI,E-PRO,TRC
CIPS,CSC,FIABCI
Re/Max Results
239-449-8460 direct
708-878-9097 cell
lili at lilioday.com
http://www.lilioday.remax.com




________________________________
From: 5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 6:15 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] A very unique land sale

Did anyone get back to this guy?

Bill Effros

(Catching up on email again...)

Steven Bogensberger wrote: 
Hi there,
I have just read the book, joined the forum and? perused through the archives and yet I am not %100 sure if there is value in using the 5-day method in my case.? Here is the story.
I own a group of islands (4 islands) on a very desirable cottage country lake in Canada.? They have many desirable features not least of which is the fact that it has the furthest distance to a neighbour of any property in the region and being islands that will not change until the polar ice caps melt. Other intangibles include: located in a UNESCO world heritage site, resident Osprey family, best deep clear water access in lake system, renowned bass fishing (annual professional tournaments held on the lake) and of course the cache of being able to say you own a group of islands.
All that being said the property is so unique that there literally are no sufficient comps or historical data on the property itself that evaluating the property has been extremely difficult.? To add to the problem I purchased the property from a person who bought it 1965 at a price that was not much more than they paid for it then.? It was a purely emotional sale for them and money was not an issue so they sold it to me for surely far less than it was worth. For the record If I had any other choice I wouldn?t be selling it but financial stress has forced my hand.
45 years later I have had it evaluated by appraisers, agents and banks and have had a range of response from 45,000 to 255,000.? Needless to say I am no further ahead.
The problem is I want to find a ?true? market value and thought the 5-day sale might just do it (although due to the uniqueness there are only so many people in the market at any given time for a group of islands)...without the 5-day sale though I feel I am left to only being able to trust my gut...which certainly won?t be accurate.
I know that 5-day sales are not recommended for land sales, but I thought maybe even a hybrid/modified version might work in this case.
PLEASE ADVISE!? :o)
Any other suggestions also would be greatly appreciated.
Steve.
P.S. enjoyed the book and plan on running a five day sale with my buddy?s house.

________________________________

_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum


      
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From bill at effros.com  Thu Mar 12 17:35:23 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:35:23 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Advertising location AND open house hours
In-Reply-To: <ae701b2a0901182237o14c0d3c0xda44a3de28743d43@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ae701b2a0901182237o14c0d3c0xda44a3de28743d43@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49B9801B.5000004@effros.com>

Did anyone get back to Kathryn?

Bill Effros



Serious Property Solutions wrote:
> Hi all,
>  
> I've read the book at least a half-dozen times and I've been doing my 
> best to follow everything verbatim. But I've run into a slight dilemma 
> in two different areas: advertising the location of the investment 
> property I'll be selling and establishing the hours for my open house. 
>  
> My property isn't situated in a certain development or any other 
> classification by which I can vaguely advertise its location. I 
> thought about including the zip code with my print ad but this 
> particular zip code encompasses some sketchy areas of the city that 
> some might rule out despite the fact that my property is located in 
> one of the more desirable locations in the zip. The best solution I 
> can come up with to solving my advertising pickle is to reference 
> intersecting streets.
>  
> So with that said, would it be appropriate to place the first line of 
> my print ad, flush left with all capital letters, to include the 
> location of "Off of 29th & Market Streets?" I honestly can't think of 
> any other way to give potential buyers the general gist of the area in 
> which the property is located unless I specifically announce the exact 
> address -- which I obviously don't want to do with any sort of 
> advertising.
>  
> My second question is in regard to the best hours to feature an open 
> house. As a single mom, I realistically cannot do the 10AM - 5PM hours 
> that were suggested in the book. The best I could do is a 12noon - 4PM 
> or a 1PM - 5PM. Have any of you found either of these timeframes to be 
> more advantageous than the other? Please do advise!! 
>  
> Thanks so much for taking the time to read this. And a very special 
> thanks to Mr. Effros and to all who contribute to this Forum!!
>  
> Kindest regards,
>  
> Kathryn
> Harrisburg, PA
> Nervous seller (currently in need of Xanax due to my upcoming sale!!), 
> landlord, investor
>  
>  
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
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From bill at effros.com  Thu Mar 12 17:36:15 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:36:15 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Marin County, CA Seller Questions
In-Reply-To: <70A587D0.0BE5.4D59.9E91.9B0AEECF024C@aol.com>
References: <70A587D0.0BE5.4D59.9E91.9B0AEECF024C@aol.com>
Message-ID: <49B9804F.3010404@effros.com>

How about Susan?

Bill Effros



sdeluxexx wrote:
> Dear Bill:
>
> I'm new to your forum but not to unsuccessfully trying to sell my 1 
> acre wooded bay view house in Tiburon, CA, an affluent  enclave (pop 
> 8,500) just north of the Golden Gate Bridge in Marin County, CA.  In 
> July '07 I listed it for $2,499,000 for 4 1/2 months and received one 
> $2 mil written offer which I blew off.  In March '08 I listed with 
> another agent at $2,199,000 for 4 months and received no offers.  A 
> house a 1/2 mile away that's not as nice has been for sale since last 
> September, and they've dropped their price from $2,150,000 to $1,900,000.
>
> Researching your method online has been very empowering, and I plan on 
> buying your book tomorrow.  Here are my initial questions:
>
> 1.  Do you really recommend I advertise my house for $1 mil (assuming 
> it's worth about $2 mil)?  This is a bit scary, and I'm wondering does 
> the 50% rule still apply for higher priced real estate?  What about 
> starting at $1.5 mil instead?  This is a pretty sophisticated market, 
> and do you think that hurts or helps my chances?
>
> 2.  The primary buyer objection has been the access.  To get the 
> panoramic view, the cars are parked further down the hill and 45 steps 
> away from the front door.   Because of the hillside, steep driveway 
> and limited parking, do you think having people walk up the driveway 
> and stairs for the open house will be a big negative?  I'm not quite 
> sure if trying to shuttle buyers up and down the driveway is the 
> answer. Any advice?
>
> 3.  When we added on a big addition six years ago, we made the lower 
> level into a legal 775 sq ft 1 bedrm in-law apartment with separate 
> french door entrance and same quality finishes.  The 2,400 sq ft 
> upstairs (main level) is two bedrms and 2.5 baths.  We designed the 
> house so it can be easily connected internally with a circular 
> staircase if someone so desires.  The downstairs layout accommodates 
> this and the upstairs floor is all ready framed for the install.  My 
> question is how would you suggest we market  the house?  As 3 bedrms 
> and 3.5 baths? Do you think its current configuration will help or 
> hurt our chances to sell?  Should we mention the in-law aspect in our 
> ads or over the phone?
>
> 4.  My in-law tenant's lease is up in July.  If I sell the house using 
> your techniques this spring, how do you suggest I handle the lease?
>
> 5.  I inherited the carport from the previous owner and have 
> previously disclosed I don't believe it was ever built to code.  As 
> part of my seller's prep, if I order a home inspection report I'm 
> afraid the carport issue will open up a potential can of worms.  Any 
> suggestion how to deal with this?
>
> 6.  Both our local Marin County newspaper and SF Chronicle's weekday 
> real estate sections are pretty skimpy, and I'm concerned no one will 
> pay attention to a midweek ad.  Do you ever recommend buying weekday 
> front section display ad space?  How effective is creating a 
> broker-like weekend ad with a color photo of the house?  Any posting 
> tips for Craig's List?
>
> 7.  Does creating a temporary website with photos, features, school 
> district info, etc. help the 5 Day Sale process?
>
> With great appreciation,
>
> Susan Deluxe 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
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From real.estate.professor at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 12 18:21:05 2009
From: real.estate.professor at hotmail.com (Kyle Cascioli)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:21:05 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] Marin County, CA Seller Questions
In-Reply-To: <49B9804F.3010404@effros.com>
References: <70A587D0.0BE5.4D59.9E91.9B0AEECF024C@aol.com>
	<49B9804F.3010404@effros.com>
Message-ID: <BLU122-W42CA56A8546CD11501C321B49F0@phx.gbl>


Hi Bill:

 

I remember this one ... it was posted sometime ago (this looks like a re-post) and she was given advice by several people.
 

I posted an in-depth response that should be in the archives.

 

Best to all,

 

Kyle Cascioli

www.AuctionBySeller.com 


Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:36:15 -0400
From: bill at effros.com
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Marin County, CA Seller Questions

How about Susan?

Bill Effros



sdeluxexx wrote: 

Dear Bill: 


I'm new to your forum but not to unsuccessfully trying to sell my 1 acre wooded bay view house in Tiburon, CA, an affluent  enclave (pop 8,500) just north of the Golden Gate Bridge in Marin County, CA.  In July '07 I listed it for $2,499,000 for 4 1/2 months and received one $2 mil written offer which I blew off.  In March '08 I listed with another agent at $2,199,000 for 4 months and received no offers.  A house a 1/2 mile away that's not as nice has been for sale since last September, and they've dropped their price from $2,150,000 to $1,900,000.

Researching your method online has been very empowering, and I plan on buying your book tomorrow.  Here are my initial questions:



1.  Do you really recommend I advertise my house for $1 mil (assuming it's worth about $2 mil)?  This is a bit scary, and I'm wondering does the 50% rule still apply for higher priced real estate?  What about starting at $1.5 mil instead?  This is a pretty sophisticated market, and do you think that hurts or helps my chances?



2.  The primary buyer objection has been the access.  To get the panoramic view, the cars are parked further down the hill and 45 steps away from the front door.   Because of the hillside, steep driveway and limited parking, do you think having people walk up the driveway and stairs for the open house will be a big negative?  I'm not quite sure if trying to shuttle buyers up and down the driveway is the answer. Any advice?

3.  When we added on a big addition six years ago, we made the lower level into a legal 775 sq ft 1 bedrm in-law apartment with separate french door entrance and same quality finishes.  The 2,400 sq ft upstairs (main level) is two bedrms and 2.5 baths.  We designed the house so it can be easily connected internally with a circular staircase if someone so desires.  The downstairs layout accommodates this and the upstairs floor is all ready framed for the install.  My question is how would you suggest we market  the house?  As 3 bedrms and 3.5 baths? Do you think its current configuration will help or hurt our chances to sell?  Should we mention the in-law aspect in our ads or over the phone? 


4.  My in-law tenant's lease is up in July.  If I sell the house using your techniques this spring, how do you suggest I handle the lease?



5.  I inherited the carport from the previous owner and have previously disclosed I don't believe it was ever built to code.  As part of my seller's prep, if I order a home inspection report I'm afraid the carport issue will open up a potential can of worms.  Any suggestion how to deal with this? 


6.  Both our local Marin County newspaper and SF Chronicle's weekday real estate sections are pretty skimpy, and I'm concerned no one will pay attention to a midweek ad.  Do you ever recommend buying weekday front section display ad space?  How effective is creating a broker-like weekend ad with a color photo of the house?  Any posting tips for Craig's List? 


7.  Does creating a temporary website with photos, features, school district info, etc. help the 5 Day Sale process? 


With great appreciation,

Susan Deluxe 
_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. 
http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_70faster_032009
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From bill at effros.com  Thu Mar 12 18:30:04 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:30:04 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Marin County, CA Seller Questions
In-Reply-To: <BLU122-W42CA56A8546CD11501C321B49F0@phx.gbl>
References: <70A587D0.0BE5.4D59.9E91.9B0AEECF024C@aol.com>	<49B9804F.3010404@effros.com>
	<BLU122-W42CA56A8546CD11501C321B49F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <49B98CEC.2000407@effros.com>

Thanks, Kyle,

I'm catching up, and I just don't know what has happened by looking at 
my own email box.

My home mouse was inserting double clicks some of the time, so when I 
went to delete something it sometimes deleted 2 things and I had to find 
back the unintended delete.

This one must have been an intended delete, but I didn't know.

Then I went on the road and Vista interpreted my efforts to get onto the 
Internet as an intruder, and wouldn't let me do it.

I'll be going on the road again in a month, and I'm determined to have 
things under control before I leave.

I see you survived your weekend.

B.



Kyle Cascioli wrote:
> Hi Bill:
>  
> I remember this one ... it was posted sometime ago (this looks like a 
> re-post) and she was given advice by several people.
>  
> I posted an in-depth response that should be in the archives.
>  
> Best to all,
>  
> Kyle Cascioli
> www.AuctionBySeller.com <http://www.auctionbyseller.com/>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:36:15 -0400
> From: bill at effros.com
> To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Marin County, CA Seller Questions
>
> How about Susan?
>
> Bill Effros
>
>
>
> sdeluxexx wrote:
>
>     Dear Bill:
>
>     I'm new to your forum but not to unsuccessfully trying to sell my
>     1 acre wooded bay view house in Tiburon, CA, an affluent  enclave
>     (pop 8,500) just north of the Golden Gate Bridge in Marin County,
>     CA.  In July '07 I listed it for $2,499,000 for 4 1/2 months and
>     received one $2 mil written offer which I blew off.  In March '08
>     I listed with another agent at $2,199,000 for 4 months and
>     received no offers.  A house a 1/2 mile away that's not as nice
>     has been for sale since last September, and they've dropped their
>     price from $2,150,000 to $1,900,000.
>
>     Researching your method online has been very empowering, and I
>     plan on buying your book tomorrow.  Here are my initial questions:
>
>     1.  Do you really recommend I advertise my house for $1 mil
>     (assuming it's worth about $2 mil)?  This is a bit scary, and I'm
>     wondering does the 50% rule still apply for higher priced real
>     estate?  What about starting at $1.5 mil instead?  This is a
>     pretty sophisticated market, and do you think that hurts or helps
>     my chances?
>
>     2.  The primary buyer objection has been the access.  To get the
>     panoramic view, the cars are parked further down the hill and 45
>     steps away from the front door.   Because of the hillside, steep
>     driveway and limited parking, do you think having people walk up
>     the driveway and stairs for the open house will be a big negative?
>      I'm not quite sure if trying to shuttle buyers up and down the
>     driveway is the answer. Any advice?
>
>     3.  When we added on a big addition six years ago, we made the
>     lower level into a legal 775 sq ft 1 bedrm in-law apartment with
>     separate french door entrance and same quality finishes.  The
>     2,400 sq ft upstairs (main level) is two bedrms and 2.5 baths.  We
>     designed the house so it can be easily connected internally with a
>     circular staircase if someone so desires.  The downstairs layout
>     accommodates this and the upstairs floor is all ready framed for
>     the install.  My question is how would you suggest we market  the
>     house?  As 3 bedrms and 3.5 baths? Do you think its current
>     configuration will help or hurt our chances to sell?  Should we
>     mention the in-law aspect in our ads or over the phone?
>
>     4.  My in-law tenant's lease is up in July.  If I sell the house
>     using your techniques this spring, how do you suggest I handle the
>     lease?
>
>     5.  I inherited the carport from the previous owner and have
>     previously disclosed I don't believe it was ever built to code.
>      As part of my seller's prep, if I order a home inspection report
>     I'm afraid the carport issue will open up a potential can of
>     worms.  Any suggestion how to deal with this?
>
>     6.  Both our local Marin County newspaper and SF Chronicle's
>     weekday real estate sections are pretty skimpy, and I'm concerned
>     no one will pay attention to a midweek ad.  Do you ever recommend
>     buying weekday front section display ad space?  How effective is
>     creating a broker-like weekend ad with a color photo of the house?
>      Any posting tips for Craig's List?
>
>     7.  Does creating a temporary website with photos, features,
>     school district info, etc. help the 5 Day Sale process?
>
>     With great appreciation,
>
>     Susan Deluxe 
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     5-DayForum mailing list
>     5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>     http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>       
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Find 
> out more. 
> <http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_70faster_032009> 
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
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From real.estate.professor at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 12 19:47:51 2009
From: real.estate.professor at hotmail.com (Kyle Cascioli)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:47:51 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] Marin County, CA Seller Questions
In-Reply-To: <49B98CEC.2000407@effros.com>
References: <70A587D0.0BE5.4D59.9E91.9B0AEECF024C@aol.com>
	<49B9804F.3010404@effros.com>	<BLU122-W42CA56A8546CD11501C321B49F0@phx.gbl>
	<49B98CEC.2000407@effros.com>
Message-ID: <BLU122-W131FF2C35A5857DDAA3A7FB49F0@phx.gbl>


Hi Bill:

 

No worries ... the Forum has your back.

 

As I reflect on the weekend and our pre-5 Day Sale campaign, I've come to the conclusion that what we are all really trying to do here is to marry real estate with a little "theater" in order to create a specific "real estate transaction event."

 

Our students assisted and we are preparing another case study that we will post in the next week or so.

 

Kyle Cascioli

www.AuctionByBuilder.com 

 


 


Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:30:04 -0400
From: bill at effros.com
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Marin County, CA Seller Questions

Thanks, Kyle,

I'm catching up, and I just don't know what has happened by looking at my own email box.

My home mouse was inserting double clicks some of the time, so when I went to delete something it sometimes deleted 2 things and I had to find back the unintended delete.

This one must have been an intended delete, but I didn't know.

Then I went on the road and Vista interpreted my efforts to get onto the Internet as an intruder, and wouldn't let me do it.

I'll be going on the road again in a month, and I'm determined to have things under control before I leave.

I see you survived your weekend.

B.



Kyle Cascioli wrote: 


Hi Bill:
 
I remember this one ... it was posted sometime ago (this looks like a re-post) and she was given advice by several people.
 
I posted an in-depth response that should be in the archives.
 
Best to all,
 
Kyle Cascioli
www.AuctionBySeller.com 


Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:36:15 -0400
From: bill at effros.com
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Marin County, CA Seller Questions

How about Susan?

Bill Effros



sdeluxexx wrote: 

Dear Bill: 


I'm new to your forum but not to unsuccessfully trying to sell my 1 acre wooded bay view house in Tiburon, CA, an affluent  enclave (pop 8,500) just north of the Golden Gate Bridge in Marin County, CA.  In July '07 I listed it for $2,499,000 for 4 1/2 months and received one $2 mil written offer which I blew off.  In March '08 I listed with another agent at $2,199,000 for 4 months and received no offers.  A house a 1/2 mile away that's not as nice has been for sale since last September, and they've dropped their price from $2,150,000 to $1,900,000.

Researching your method online has been very empowering, and I plan on buying your book tomorrow.  Here are my initial questions:



1.  Do you really recommend I advertise my house for $1 mil (assuming it's worth about $2 mil)?  This is a bit scary, and I'm wondering does the 50% rule still apply for higher priced real estate?  What about starting at $1.5 mil instead?  This is a pretty sophisticated market, and do you think that hurts or helps my chances?



2.  The primary buyer objection has been the access.  To get the panoramic view, the cars are parked further down the hill and 45 steps away from the front door.   Because of the hillside, steep driveway and limited parking, do you think having people walk up the driveway and stairs for the open house will be a big negative?  I'm not quite sure if trying to shuttle buyers up and down the driveway is the answer. Any advice?

3.  When we added on a big addition six years ago, we made the lower level into a legal 775 sq ft 1 bedrm in-law apartment with separate french door entrance and same quality finishes.  The 2,400 sq ft upstairs (main level) is two bedrms and 2.5 baths.  We designed the house so it can be easily connected internally with a circular staircase if someone so desires.  The downstairs layout accommodates this and the upstairs floor is all ready framed for the install.  My question is how would you suggest we market  the house?  As 3 bedrms and 3.5 baths? Do you think its current configuration will help or hurt our chances to sell?  Should we mention the in-law aspect in our ads or over the phone? 


4.  My in-law tenant's lease is up in July.  If I sell the house using your techniques this spring, how do you suggest I handle the lease?



5.  I inherited the carport from the previous owner and have previously disclosed I don't believe it was ever built to code.  As part of my seller's prep, if I order a home inspection report I'm afraid the carport issue will open up a potential can of worms.  Any suggestion how to deal with this? 


6.  Both our local Marin County newspaper and SF Chronicle's weekday real estate sections are pretty skimpy, and I'm concerned no one will pay attention to a midweek ad.  Do you ever recommend buying weekday front section display ad space?  How effective is creating a broker-like weekend ad with a color photo of the house?  Any posting tips for Craig's List? 


7.  Does creating a temporary website with photos, features, school district info, etc. help the 5 Day Sale process? 


With great appreciation,

Susan Deluxe 
_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
  


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From bill at effros.com  Thu Mar 12 20:16:51 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 20:16:51 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Marin County, CA Seller Questions
In-Reply-To: <BLU122-W131FF2C35A5857DDAA3A7FB49F0@phx.gbl>
References: <70A587D0.0BE5.4D59.9E91.9B0AEECF024C@aol.com>	<49B9804F.3010404@effros.com>	<BLU122-W42CA56A8546CD11501C321B49F0@phx.gbl>	<49B98CEC.2000407@effros.com>
	<BLU122-W131FF2C35A5857DDAA3A7FB49F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <49B9A5F3.2090307@effros.com>

I'm anxious to see it.

Of course, all markets are theater -- that's why people like shopping in 
markets so much.

As you know, home buyers love shopping in 5-Day Markets.

B.



Kyle Cascioli wrote:
> Hi Bill:
>  
> No worries ... the Forum has your back.
>  
> As I reflect on the weekend and our pre-5 Day Sale campaign, I've 
> come to the conclusion that what we are all really trying to do here 
> is to marry real estate with a little "theater" in order to create a 
> specific "real estate transaction event."
>  
> Our students assisted and we are preparing another case study that we 
> will post in the next week or so.
>  
> Kyle Cascioli
> www.AuctionByBuilder.com <http://www.auctionbybuilder.com/>
>  
>
>  
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:30:04 -0400
> From: bill at effros.com
> To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Marin County, CA Seller Questions
>
> Thanks, Kyle,
>
> I'm catching up, and I just don't know what has happened by looking at 
> my own email box.
>
> My home mouse was inserting double clicks some of the time, so when I 
> went to delete something it sometimes deleted 2 things and I had to 
> find back the unintended delete.
>
> This one must have been an intended delete, but I didn't know.
>
> Then I went on the road and Vista interpreted my efforts to get onto 
> the Internet as an intruder, and wouldn't let me do it.
>
> I'll be going on the road again in a month, and I'm determined to have 
> things under control before I leave.
>
> I see you survived your weekend.
>
> B.
>
>
>
> Kyle Cascioli wrote:
>
>     Hi Bill:
>      
>     I remember this one ... it was posted sometime ago (this looks
>     like a re-post) and she was given advice by several people.
>      
>     I posted an in-depth response that should be in the archives.
>      
>     Best to all,
>      
>     Kyle Cascioli
>     www.AuctionBySeller.com <http://www.auctionbyseller.com/>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:36:15 -0400
>     From: bill at effros.com <mailto:bill at effros.com>
>     To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>     <mailto:5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>     Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Marin County, CA Seller Questions
>
>     How about Susan?
>
>     Bill Effros
>
>
>
>     sdeluxexx wrote:
>
>         Dear Bill:
>
>         I'm new to your forum but not to unsuccessfully trying to sell
>         my 1 acre wooded bay view house in Tiburon, CA, an affluent
>          enclave (pop 8,500) just north of the Golden Gate Bridge in
>         Marin County, CA.  In July '07 I listed it for $2,499,000 for
>         4 1/2 months and received one $2 mil written offer which I
>         blew off.  In March '08 I listed with another agent at
>         $2,199,000 for 4 months and received no offers.  A house a 1/2
>         mile away that's not as nice has been for sale since last
>         September, and they've dropped their price from $2,150,000 to
>         $1,900,000.
>
>         Researching your method online has been very empowering, and I
>         plan on buying your book tomorrow.  Here are my initial questions:
>
>         1.  Do you really recommend I advertise my house for $1 mil
>         (assuming it's worth about $2 mil)?  This is a bit scary, and
>         I'm wondering does the 50% rule still apply for higher priced
>         real estate?  What about starting at $1.5 mil instead?  This
>         is a pretty sophisticated market, and do you think that hurts
>         or helps my chances?
>
>         2.  The primary buyer objection has been the access.  To get
>         the panoramic view, the cars are parked further down the hill
>         and 45 steps away from the front door.   Because of the
>         hillside, steep driveway and limited parking, do you think
>         having people walk up the driveway and stairs for the open
>         house will be a big negative?  I'm not quite sure if trying to
>         shuttle buyers up and down the driveway is the answer. Any advice?
>
>         3.  When we added on a big addition six years ago, we made the
>         lower level into a legal 775 sq ft 1 bedrm in-law apartment
>         with separate french door entrance and same quality finishes.
>          The 2,400 sq ft upstairs (main level) is two bedrms and 2.5
>         baths.  We designed the house so it can be easily connected
>         internally with a circular staircase if someone so desires.
>          The downstairs layout accommodates this and the upstairs
>         floor is all ready framed for the install.  My question is how
>         would you suggest we market  the house?  As 3 bedrms and 3.5
>         baths? Do you think its current configuration will help or
>         hurt our chances to sell?  Should we mention the in-law aspect
>         in our ads or over the phone?
>
>         4.  My in-law tenant's lease is up in July.  If I sell the
>         house using your techniques this spring, how do you suggest I
>         handle the lease?
>
>         5.  I inherited the carport from the previous owner and have
>         previously disclosed I don't believe it was ever built to
>         code.  As part of my seller's prep, if I order a home
>         inspection report I'm afraid the carport issue will open up a
>         potential can of worms.  Any suggestion how to deal with this?
>
>         6.  Both our local Marin County newspaper and SF Chronicle's
>         weekday real estate sections are pretty skimpy, and I'm
>         concerned no one will pay attention to a midweek ad.  Do you
>         ever recommend buying weekday front section display ad space?
>          How effective is creating a broker-like weekend ad with a
>         color photo of the house?  Any posting tips for Craig's List?
>
>         7.  Does creating a temporary website with photos, features,
>         school district info, etc. help the 5 Day Sale process?
>
>         With great appreciation,
>
>         Susan Deluxe 
>
>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         5-DayForum mailing list
>         5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>         http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>           
>
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast.
>     Find out more.
>     <http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_70faster_032009>
>
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>     _______________________________________________
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>     5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
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>       
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Windows Live? Contacts: Organize your contact list. Check it out. 
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From bill at effros.com  Thu Mar 12 22:52:12 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 22:52:12 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] 5 Day Sale in Manhattan
In-Reply-To: <663450.80551.qm@web112201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.6.1236787227.13018.5-dayforum@mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
	<663450.80551.qm@web112201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49B9CA5C.1050201@effros.com>

Glenda,

$249,500.

You won't miss anybody -- if it's worth $500,000 you'll get it from 
someone who will both pass bank and board qualifications.

Don't have anyone fill out pre-qualifications.  If you do it right 
you'll have 5 people within $500 dollars of each other at the highest 
level you can get for that coop at this time.  The unqualified will drop 
out before they are embarrassed.

Real buyers in NYC are looking every day of the week to ensure they will 
be the first to see a new ad.  You just need one.  Start Wednesday.  If 
you don't get 25 responses by Friday, pull the ads and stop the sale.

Prices are dropping everywhere in the country.  The 5-Day Method won't 
cure that.  It will only get you the top end of the current fair market 
value if you play it straight from beginning to end.

Bill Effros
Author



V Glenda wrote:
> Hi!  Bill-
> Ok, so how should I handle the advertisement then?  Place a print and 
> on line ad in the New York Times for all 5 days even though the 
> biggest exposure will be only be on the Sunday edition?   I need some 
> guidance...this is making me really nervous.  Also, for the on line 
> ad, advertising if for $269,500 automatically puts it at the bottom of 
> the search list.  Aren't I  missing potential buyers who are in the 
> 500K range?
>
> Another one of my concern is how do I avoid going into contract with 
> an unqualified buyer?  By this I mean, it is one thing for the buyer 
> and I to agree on a price, but the buyer must pass the board 
> qualification and bank qualification as well.  Your book did not 
> really address this area in detail as far as taking board 
> prequalifications into consideration.  Would it be okay if I have the 
> five top bidders fill out a prequalifying questionnaire and offer to 
> the one who will most likely qualify through the board (ie sound 
> employement history, sufficient financial reserve, income, etc?)  How 
> did you handle this area when you were selling coops in Manhattan? 
>  Thanks for your input...
>
> Best,
> Glenda
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* "5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com" 
> <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
> *To:* 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 11, 2009 12:00:27 PM
> *Subject:* 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 14
>
> Send 5-DayForum mailing list submissions to
>     5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> <mailto:5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>     
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>     5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
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>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>     5-dayforum-owner at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> <mailto:5-dayforum-owner at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of 5-DayForum digest..."
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Please remove me from your mailing list (jmanny at bellsouth.net 
> <mailto:jmanny at bellsouth.net>)
>   2. Re: Short sale (Rick Duffin)
>   3. Re: Short sale (Rick Duffin)
>   4. 5 Day Sale in Manhattan (V Glenda)
>   5. Re: Short sale (Andrew Silverberg)
>   6. Re: Short sale (Damian Colden)
>   7. Re: Short sale (Naji)
>   8. Re: Why you shouldn't protect the broker (Wade Fenner)
>   9. Re: 5 Day Sale in Manhattan (Bill Effros)
>   10. commerical property (Mike Norris)
>   11. Re: 5 Day Sale in Manhattan (tgarter at comcast.net 
> <mailto:tgarter at comcast.net>)
>
>
> -----Inline Message Follows-----
>
>  This is the second request to be removed.
> Thank You
>
>     -------------- Original message from
>     5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com:
>     --------------
>
>
>     > Send 5-DayForum mailing list submissions to
>     > 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>     >
>     > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>     >
>     > http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>     >
>     > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>     > 5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>     >
>     > You can reach the person managing the list at
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>     >
>     > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>     > than "Re: Contents of 5-DayForum digest..." 
>
>
>
> -----Inline Message Follows-----
>
> Great Reading over the last couple months.  Read the book in one 
> night.  Makes perfect sense.  My house has been on the market for 3 
> months.  About 20 showings. No offers.  Listing expires in April. New 
> post-divorce salary takes effect this week, half my normal pay.  No 
> way to afford house and too much house for just me and kids on 
> weekends.  Even if I could manage it, I would be working more side 
> jobs then now just to break even.  Called bank, not really a mortgage, 
> I just have an equity loan for the cost of the house.  Asked about 
> short sale, mitigation dept.  Was real nice, just told me to fax him 
> an offer when I get it.  I asked how long for decision, he said just a 
> couple days.  Sounds to good to be true.  House currently listed for 
> 150, I owe 162 , very hard to get comps since house is valued at 
> 170-190+ by online sites.  Houses on my street go from mine, low at 
> 160 I paid, to probably 750,000 high end.  Next street over, 1 or 2 
> million?, glass elevators etc.  Mine build 1935, first house in area.  
> Odd property - love or hate it (My X wife obviously loved 
> it.) Plan: No offers by expiration on listing, do 5 day sale.  Bank 
> can take it or leave it.  If they refuse, offer deed in liu of 
> forclosure.  I do not feel it is right to stay here while in 
> foreclosure, I signed the contract.  Mostly worried about hit to credit. 
>  
> Questions: 1
> ) For deed in liu, what are the odds in general and what is the credit 
> hit.  Do they mark "Settled for less.." ? 
>  
> 2)  On short sale, how do you get out of paying taxes on the 
> forgiveness.  You mention that you need to negotiate this, but don't 
> they have to hit you with it by law?  Anything on this in the new laws 
> coming down? 
>  
> 3) Is Mitigation guy pulling my leg, saying 2 days to decide.  Bank is 
> Charter One, now owned by Citizens.  Loan is 20 year, 6.5% Equity Line 
> of Credit.  We had a regular loan but got this one 2 years ago as rate 
> was lower, no closing costs at all.  But is weird, not a mortgage but 
> Equity LIne.  Need to get paperwork to check whether is with or 
> without recource.  (Wife removed all paperwork from home, says she 
> threw it out, oh well)  Banker told me that they would determine what 
> I would still have to pay after short sale at the time they approve it. 
>  
>  Lastly, tried to convince realtor to do 5day sale, very against it.  
> Not worth arguing.  Should I give her another chance to help hold 
> 5-day sale before listing expires?  I only agreed to 4 month listing 
> since I told her up front I would not be able to make the mortgage 
> payments after that. She will also not like bank offer, they told 
> me they usually only pay 2% commission on short sale, we have agread 
> to 4% single, 5% dual agency. 
>  
>  Current credit in very good shape, took a while to get it there and 
> hate to loose it, but that's life.  Thanks for the book Bill, you must 
> put many hours into this list.  Thanks to all you pro's and 
> regular Joes and Jills too for giving me an education. 
>
> On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 1:13 PM, Keith R. Pinster 
> <keith.pinster at comcast.net <mailto:keith.pinster at comcast.net>> wrote:
>
>     One very important thing about finding the right realtor to do a
>     short sale for you is their ability to negotiate with the bank. 
>     If they don?t know how (or thing that it is possible) to make sure
>     the bank will not issue a 1099-C for the difference between what
>     you owe and what the short sale price is, FIND A DIFFERENT
>     REALTOR!  Sure, with a hardship you can get out from under the
>     1099, but it is much better to not have to deal with it in the
>     first place.
>
>      
>
>     Keith Pinster ? Real Estate Investor, Vancouver, WA
>
>      
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>     *From:* O'Day, Lili [mailto:lili at lilioday.com
>     <mailto:lili at lilioday.com>]
>     *Sent:* Tuesday, March 10, 2009 8:42 AM
>     *To:* How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
>     *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...
>
>      
>
>      
>
>     Why not do a short sale instead of a foreclosure?  The bank will
>     take less than is currently owed on the property and pay the cost
>     of a Realtor and your attorney costs to do a short sale.  If
>     normally cost the bank about approx $50,000 to foreclose, and they
>     still won't get more than the property is worth (Bill is correct
>     the market is the market after all).  A short sale would have less
>     of a negative impact on your credit report long term than a
>     foreclosure. It's at least worth a try.  If you go this route,
>     make sure that the Realtor that you use has knowledge of the short
>     sale process and knows what they're doing, so as not to waste
>     time..  They need to be able to work well with the asset manager
>     in the loss mitigation department of your bank.
>
>      
>
>     A lot of people are going through this.  It's a real nightmare! 
>     Know all your options before going forward with a forclosure. 
>     Best of luck,
>
>      
>
>     Lili O'Day
>
>     Broker Associate  IL &FL
>
>      
>
>      
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>     *From:* 5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com
>     <http://lilioday.com/>@mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>     <http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/>
>     [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili
>     <mailto:5-dayforum-bounces%2Blili>=lilioday.com
>     <http://lilioday.com/>@mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>     <http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/>] *On Behalf Of
>     *Bill Effros
>     *Sent:* Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:23 AM
>     *To:* How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
>     *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...
>
>     Merry,
>
>     Thanks for getting back to us.
>
>     People all over the country are having the same experience you
>     just went through -- no one will pay anything near what the owner
>     has in the house. And it just gets worse.
>
>     There is nothing home-owners can do but let the banks eat the losses.
>
>     You clearly did everything you could do, and still you didn't come
>     close to the value the bank appraisers told you your home was
>     worth when you took your mortgage.
>
>     Many, many people are in the same boat, and more discover they are
>     in this boat every day.
>
>     The only thing that makes sense is for home owners to walk away
>     from these homes and mortgages, and that is what I am recommending
>     to all who finds themselves in the same same situation you are in.
>
>     At some point everyone will realize that ALL mortgages must be
>     re-set to reflect current values, and that we will all have to pay
>     for it.  (That is already going on in terms of bank bailouts--but
>     the process has not fairly reached down to homeowners who would be
>     foolish to continue paying outsized mortgages on homes that will
>     not again be worth what they paid for a long time.)
>
>     At some point inflation will kick in again, and home prices will
>     again return to what they were -- but that process could take a
>     decade.  No one can say.
>
>     In the meantime, go through the bankruptcy with the knowledge that
>     you did everything you could to avoid it.  The prices you were
>     offered for your home are the most anyone could get at this time,
>     and you know you cannot afford to wait for times to change. 
>
>     We will all have to rebuild our finances, and I'm sure programs
>     will develop to ease the rebuilding for those hardest hit.
>
>     Check in with us from time to time to let us know how you are
>     doing.  As new resources develop for people with "upside-down"
>     mortgages, we will be talking about them, and how they alter the
>     home-selling market.  So many people share your dilemma, this
>     country will have to develop remedies -- and when they do, you can
>     be sure there will be a lot of people on this Forum prepared to
>     vouch for you.
>
>     Regards,
>
>     Bill Effros
>     Author
>
>     Merry McConnell wrote:
>
>     Hello Bill,
>
>     The sale is over and the highest bid was too low for me to
>     accept.  I kept my appointment with the lawyer this morning, but
>     on different terms.  I'm starting the process for bankruptcy and
>     foreclosure....and it does not feel good.
>
>     The sale in itself was a wonderful experience.  We really felt we
>     had at least six serious bidders, but they all wanted to 'steal'
>     the property instead of buy it.  We had a total of 69 responses and
>     about 40 people come through.  There were 16 names on the bidding
>     sheet and the majority dropped off at the 120,000 mark.. 
>
>     I still appreciate discovering this method for selling, because
>     I've learned so much through the process.  There's always a
>     possibility that I could have put a 'by owner' sale sign out front
>     and
>     attracted people with a different price range in their minds,
>     because even though I can hear you say over and over that the low
>     bid I received is the FMV, I feel I attracted people focused on the
>     109,500 I advertised.  Forgive me! 
>
>     I've run out of time and I have my friend here with me for one
>     more week.  I could make a last ditch effort to run another add
>     for this weekend, but if I do that we wouldn't be able to
>     'dismantle' my house and move the things out. 
>
>     I'm still in disbelief that things didn't work out to at least a
>     reasonable closeness to the low figure I was willing to accept. 
>     The high bid was rediculous and I'm not willing to let someone
>     come in on such a low figure and benefit from my years of hard
>     work and $$$$ worth of improvements.
>     I'd rather let the bank eat this one.
>
>     Thank you again, Bill...really!
>
>     Merry
>
>
>
>
>
>     On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com
>     <mailto:bill at effros.com>> wrote:
>
>     Good going, Merry!
>
>     Most of the people who say they're coming back, and say they're
>     going to participate, will not.  Don't be discouraged by this, it
>     doesn't matter.
>
>     You will only have 1 final buyer, and 2 others will push that
>     buyer up to fair market value.  All the rest are just window dressing.
>
>     The people you are talking to are real.  You are real.  The
>     process is fair.
>
>     No matter what the final bid, proceed.
>
>     Let the high bidder negotiate with the bank -- just get out of the
>     way, and let both the high bidder and the bank know you are
>     getting out of the way before they start negotiating with each other.
>
>     Others may call after the bidding.  Send them along to the bank,
>     too -- but let your high bidder get the first shot at your house.
>
>     The price you are offered, even if it is much much lower than you
>     thought it would be, is the current fair market value.  If the
>     bank doesn't accept that fact, they will get to hold onto that
>     house until they learn.  If they do accept it, they will be able
>     to get it, or maybe a little bit more, from your high bidder or
>     one of the other bidders.
>
>     In any case, you will have determined the fair market value, and
>     sold your home within 5 days.
>
>     And that's the whole point of this exercise.
>
>     Bill Effros
>     Author
>
>
>
>     Merry McConnell wrote:
>
>     A Quick Update!
>
>     Phew!
>
>     I had 32 calls by Friday night...and this morning (Sat) the phone
>     has been ringing non-stop.
>     One person offered a cash offer but I knew better!  Thank goodness
>     read the book!
>     The house is C L E A N and de-cluttered, good smelling and all
>     lights are ON!  People LOVE
>     it and I can /feel /determination to own from three sets.  Oh yeah...
>
>     We (my friend and I) are having a ball...loving talking to people
>     and feeling comfortable with the
>     entire process.  Everyone says they're going in on the Round Robin
>     - only four signed the sheet
>     but others are bringing back spouses, etc.
>
>     All I know is that people are awe-struck with the place and they
>     all 'want' it. 
>
>     Thank you, Bill for writing this book...no matter how this works out.
>
>     I have my appt. with my lawyer for the contract signing on Monday
>     at 10am...because I just
>     /know /I'll need it!
>
>     More Later!
>
>     Merry
>
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>      
>
>     _______________________________________________
>
>     5-DayForum mailing list
>
>     5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>
>     http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>       
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     5-DayForum mailing list
>     5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>     <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>     http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>
>
>
>     -- 
>     IF YOU THINK YOU CAN OR YOU THINK YOU CAN'T....YOU'RE RIGHT!
>      Henry Ford
>
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>      
>
>     _______________________________________________
>
>     5-DayForum mailing list
>
>     5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>
>     http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo..cgi/5-dayforum <http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum>
>
>       
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     5-DayForum mailing list
>     5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>     <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>     http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>
>
>
> -----Inline Message Follows-----
>
> Sorry, I scrolled down further and read the IRS pub (Thanks Jim) on 
> debt forgiveness and issues on recource after sending my email.
>  
> Rick
>
>
>  
>
>     Questions: 1
>     ) For deed in liu, what are the odds in general and what is the
>     credit hit.  Do they mark "Settled for less.." ? 
>      
>     2)  On short sale, how do you get out of paying taxes on the
>     forgiveness.  You mention that you need to negotiate this, but
>     don't they have to hit you with it by law?  Anything on this in
>     the new laws coming down?  <<SEE IRS PUB 982>> Will be forgiven if
>     primary and limits.
>      
>
>
>
> -----Inline Message Follows-----
>
> Thanks, Guy.
>
> On another note, we've scheduled our 5 day sale on March 21-22 but we 
> started advertising as of March 1.  We have not revealed the exact 
> location and plan to do so the week of the sale.  We have it on the 
> Times and Craigs List and have gotten about 100 responses both e-mail 
> and phone calls.  I am just wondering if anyone has done this kind of 
> sale in Manhattan on a coop?  Did you actually get the sale price you 
> wanted if you follow the book to the T?
>
> Would appreciate any feedback. 
>
> Thanks,
> Glenda
>
>
>
> -----Inline Message Follows-----
>
> Jim,
>
> I am working with someone in Florida on a short sale and when the 
> property sells there will be a significant shortfall / deficiency..  
> The property was purchased in a LLC formed in Fla but the Members are 
> from Maryland , and they personally guaranteed the loan. The Fla state 
> law allows them to walk away?  Where can I find documentation to 
> support that ? Thanks
>
>  
>
> Andrew Silverberg
>
> Broker & Investor
>
> Bethesda, Maryland
>
>  
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* James Fleming [mailto:jamesfleming.realestate at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:47 PM
> *To:* 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
> *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Short sale
>
>  
>
> Keith ?
>
>  
>
> An additional thing to know about Washington is that this state is a 
> non-recourse state.  By state law, Mortgage Lenders are prohibited 
> from suing borrowers for additional funds following foreclosures.  In 
> some states, the same is true for short sales.  There are a handful of 
> such ?walk-away? states with anti-deficiency laws.  They are Alaska , 
> Arizona , California , Connecticut , Florida , Idaho , North Carolina 
> , North Dakota , Texas and Utah .
>
>  
>
> Jim Fleming
>
> Realtor & Lecturer
>
>  
>
> Vancouver WA
>
>  
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* 
> 5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] 
> *On Behalf Of *Keith R. Pinster
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:14 AM
> *To:* 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
> *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Short sale
>
>  
>
> One very important thing about finding the right realtor to do a short 
> sale for you is their ability to negotiate with the bank.  If they 
> don?t know how (or thing that it is possible) to make sure the bank 
> will not issue a 1099-C for the difference between what you owe and 
> what the short sale price is, FIND A DIFFERENT REALTOR!  Sure, with a 
> hardship you can get out from under the 1099, but it is much better to 
> not have to deal with it in the first place.
>
>  
>
> Keith Pinster ? Real Estate Investor, Vancouver , WA
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* O'Day, Lili [mailto:lili at lilioday.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 10, 2009 8:42 AM
> *To:* How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...
>
>  
>
>  
>
> Why not do a short sale instead of a foreclosure?  The bank will take 
> less than is currently owed on the property and pay the cost of a 
> Realtor and your attorney costs to do a short sale.  If normally cost 
> the bank about approx $50,000 to foreclose, and they still won't get 
> more than the property is worth (Bill is correct the market is the 
> market after all).  A short sale would have less of a negative impact 
> on your credit report long term than a foreclosure. It's at least 
> worth a try.  If you go this route, make sure that the Realtor that 
> you use has knowledge of the short sale process and knows what they're 
> doing, so as not to waste time..  They need to be able to work well 
> with the asset manager in the loss mitigation department of your bank.
>
>  
>
> A lot of people are going through this.  It's a real nightmare!  Know 
> all your options before going forward with a forclosure.  Best of luck,
>
>  
>
> Lili O'Day
>
> Broker Associate  IL &FL
>
>  
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* 
> 5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] 
> *On Behalf Of *Bill Effros
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:23 AM
> *To:* How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...
>
> Merry,
>
> Thanks for getting back to us.
>
> People all over the country are having the same experience you just 
> went through -- no one will pay anything near what the owner has in 
> the house. And it just gets worse.
>
> There is nothing home-owners can do but let the banks eat the losses.
>
> You clearly did everything you could do, and still you didn't come 
> close to the value the bank appraisers told you your home was worth 
> when you took your mortgage.
>
> Many, many people are in the same boat, and more discover they are in 
> this boat every day.
>
> The only thing that makes sense is for home owners to walk away from 
> these homes and mortgages, and that is what I am recommending to all 
> who finds themselves in the same same situation you are in.
>
> At some point everyone will realize that ALL mortgages must be re-set 
> to reflect current values, and that we will all have to pay for it.  
> (That is already going on in terms of bank bailouts--but the process 
> has not fairly reached down to homeowners who would be foolish to 
> continue paying outsized mortgages on homes that will not again be 
> worth what they paid for a long time.)
>
> At some point inflation will kick in again, and home prices will again 
> return to what they were -- but that process could take a decade.  No 
> one can say.
>
> In the meantime, go through the bankruptcy with the knowledge that you 
> did everything you could to avoid it.  The prices you were offered for 
> your home are the most anyone could get at this time, and you know you 
> cannot afford to wait for times to change. 
>
> We will all have to rebuild our finances, and I'm sure programs will 
> develop to ease the rebuilding for those hardest hit.
>
> Check in with us from time to time to let us know how you are doing.  
> As new resources develop for people with "upside-down" mortgages, we 
> will be talking about them, and how they alter the home-selling 
> market.  So many people share your dilemma, this country will have to 
> develop remedies -- and when they do, you can be sure there will be a 
> lot of people on this Forum prepared to vouch for you.
>
> Regards,
>
> Bill Effros
> Author
>
> Merry McConnell wrote:
>
> Hello Bill,
>
> The sale is over and the highest bid was too low for me to accept.  I 
> kept my appointment with the lawyer this morning, but on different 
> terms.  I'm starting the process for bankruptcy and foreclosure...and 
> it does not feel good.
>
> The sale in itself was a wonderful experience.  We really felt we had 
> at least six serious bidders, but they all wanted to 'steal' the 
> property instead of buy it.  We had a total of 69 responses and
> about 40 people come through.  There were 16 names on the bidding 
> sheet and the majority dropped off at the 120,000 mark. 
>
> I still appreciate discovering this method for selling, because I've 
> learned so much through the process.  There's always a possibility 
> that I could have put a 'by owner' sale sign out front and
> attracted people with a different price range in their minds, because 
> even though I can hear you say over and over that the low bid I 
> received is the FMV, I feel I attracted people focused on the
> 109,500 I advertised.  Forgive me! 
>
> I've run out of time and I have my friend here with me for one more 
> week.  I could make a last ditch effort to run another add for this 
> weekend, but if I do that we wouldn't be able to 'dismantle' my house 
> and move the things out. 
>
> I'm still in disbelief that things didn't work out to at least a 
> reasonable closeness to the low figure I was willing to accept.  The 
> high bid was rediculous and I'm not willing to let someone come in on 
> such a low figure and benefit from my years of hard work and $$$$ 
> worth of improvements.
> I'd rather let the bank eat this one.
>
> Thank you again, Bill...really!
>
> Merry
>
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com 
> <mailto:bill at effros.com>> wrote:
>
> Good going, Merry!
>
> Most of the people who say they're coming back, and say they're going 
> to participate, will not.  Don't be discouraged by this, it doesn't 
> matter.
>
> You will only have 1 final buyer, and 2 others will push that buyer up 
> to fair market value.  All the rest are just window dressing.
>
> The people you are talking to are real.  You are real.  The process is 
> fair.
>
> No matter what the final bid, proceed.
>
> Let the high bidder negotiate with the bank -- just get out of the 
> way, and let both the high bidder and the bank know you are getting 
> out of the way before they start negotiating with each other..
>
> Others may call after the bidding.  Send them along to the bank, too 
> -- but let your high bidder get the first shot at your house.
>
> The price you are offered, even if it is much much lower than you 
> thought it would be, is the current fair market value.  If the bank 
> doesn't accept that fact, they will get to hold onto that house until 
> they learn.  If they do accept it, they will be able to get it, or 
> maybe a little bit more, from your high bidder or one of the other 
> bidders.
>
> In any case, you will have determined the fair market value, and sold 
> your home within 5 days.
>
> And that's the whole point of this exercise.
>
> Bill Effros
> Author
>
>
>
> Merry McConnell wrote:
>
> A Quick Update!
>
> Phew!
>
> I had 32 calls by Friday night...and this morning (Sat) the phone has 
> been ringing non-stop.
> One person offered a cash offer but I knew better!  Thank goodness 
> read the book!
> The house is C L E A N and de-cluttered, good smelling and all lights 
> are ON!  People LOVE
> it and I can /feel /determination to own from three sets.  Oh yeah...
>
> We (my friend and I) are having a ball...loving talking to people and 
> feeling comfortable with the
> entire process.  Everyone says they're going in on the Round Robin - 
> only four signed the sheet
> but others are bringing back spouses, etc.
>
> All I know is that people are awe-struck with the place and they all 
> 'want' it. 
>
> Thank you, Bill for writing this book...no matter how this works out.
>
> I have my appt. with my lawyer for the contract signing on Monday at 
> 10am...because I just
> /know /I'll need it!
>
> More Later!
>
> Merry
>
>   
>   
>   
>   
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> IF YOU THINK YOU CAN OR YOU THINK YOU CAN'T...YOU'RE RIGHT!  Henry Ford
>
>   
>   
>   
>   
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
>
>
> -----Inline Message Follows-----
>
> Andrew -
>
> Most of the discussion on this topic has been as it may relate to 
> homeowners selling their primary residence. Your clients appear to 
> have an investment property. This client should seek compete advice 
> from a FL CPA and/or lawyer that specializes in this area of 
> tax/finance/real estate.
>
>
> Dac Colden
> The KatieDidIt! Team
> Keller Williams Realty
> Grand Blanc, MI
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Andrew Silverberg <StructureRealty at comcast.net>
> *To:* How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days 
> <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 11, 2009 7:53:12 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Short sale
>
> Jim,
>
> I am working with someone in Florida on a short sale and when the 
> property sells there will be a significant shortfall / deficiency.  
> The property was purchased in a LLC formed in Fla but the Members are 
> from Maryland , and they personally guaranteed the loan. The Fla state 
> law allows them to walk away?  Where can I find documentation to 
> support that ? Thanks
>
>  
>
> Andrew Silverberg
>
> Broker & Investor
>
> Bethesda, Maryland
>
>  
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* James Fleming [mailto:jamesfleming.realestate at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:47 PM
> *To:* 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
> *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Short sale
>
>  
>
> Keith ?
>
>  
>
> An additional thing to know about Washington is that this state is a 
> non-recourse state.  By state law, Mortgage Lenders are prohibited 
> from suing borrowers for additional funds following foreclosures.  In 
> some states, the same is true for short sales.  There are a handful of 
> such ?walk-away? states with anti-deficiency laws.  They are Alaska , 
> Arizona , California , Connecticut , Florida , Idaho , North Carolina 
> , North Dakota , Texas and Utah .
>
>  
>
> Jim Fleming
>
> Realtor & Lecturer
>
>  
>
> Vancouver WA
>
>  
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* 
> 5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] 
> *On Behalf Of *Keith R. Pinster
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:14 AM
> *To:* 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
> *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Short sale
>
>  
>
> One very important thing about finding the right realtor to do a short 
> sale for you is their ability to negotiate with the bank.  If they 
> don?t know how (or thing that it is possible) to make sure the bank 
> will not issue a 1099-C for the difference between what you owe and 
> what the short sale price is, FIND A DIFFERENT REALTOR!  Sure, with a 
> hardship you can get out from under the 1099, but it is much better to 
> not have to deal with it in the first place.
>
>  
>
> Keith Pinster ? Real Estate Investor, Vancouver , WA
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* O'Day, Lili [mailto:lili at lilioday.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 10, 2009 8:42 AM
> *To:* How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...
>
>  
>
>  
>
> Why not do a short sale instead of a foreclosure?  The bank will take 
> less than is currently owed on the property and pay the cost of a 
> Realtor and your attorney costs to do a short sale.  If normally cost 
> the bank about approx $50,000 to foreclose, and they still won't get 
> more than the property is worth (Bill is correct the market is the 
> market after all).  A short sale would have less of a negative impact 
> on your credit report long term than a foreclosure. It's at least 
> worth a try.  If you go this route, make sure that the Realtor that 
> you use has knowledge of the short sale process and knows what they're 
> doing, so as not to waste time..  They need to be able to work well 
> with the asset manager in the loss mitigation department of your bank.
>
>  
>
> A lot of people are going through this.  It's a real nightmare!  Know 
> all your options before going forward with a forclosure.  Best of luck,
>
>  
>
> Lili O'Day
>
> Broker Associate  IL &FL
>
>  
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* 
> 5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] 
> *On Behalf Of *Bill Effros
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:23 AM
> *To:* How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...
>
> Merry,
>
> Thanks for getting back to us.
>
> People all over the country are having the same experience you just 
> went through -- no one will pay anything near what the owner has in 
> the house. And it just gets worse.
>
> There is nothing home-owners can do but let the banks eat the losses.
>
> You clearly did everything you could do, and still you didn't come 
> close to the value the bank appraisers told you your home was worth 
> when you took your mortgage.
>
> Many, many people are in the same boat, and more discover they are in 
> this boat every day.
>
> The only thing that makes sense is for home owners to walk away from 
> these homes and mortgages, and that is what I am recommending to all 
> who finds themselves in the same same situation you are in.
>
> At some point everyone will realize that ALL mortgages must be re-set 
> to reflect current values, and that we will all have to pay for it.  
> (That is already going on in terms of bank bailouts--but the process 
> has not fairly reached down to homeowners who would be foolish to 
> continue paying outsized mortgages on homes that will not again be 
> worth what they paid for a long time.)
>
> At some point inflation will kick in again, and home prices will again 
> return to what they were -- but that process could take a decade.  No 
> one can say.
>
> In the meantime, go through the bankruptcy with the knowledge that you 
> did everything you could to avoid it.  The prices you were offered for 
> your home are the most anyone could get at this time, and you know you 
> cannot afford to wait for times to change. 
>
> We will all have to rebuild our finances, and I'm sure programs will 
> develop to ease the rebuilding for those hardest hit.
>
> Check in with us from time to time to let us know how you are doing.  
> As new resources develop for people with "upside-down" mortgages, we 
> will be talking about them, and how they alter the home-selling 
> market.  So many people share your dilemma, this country will have to 
> develop remedies -- and when they do, you can be sure there will be a 
> lot of people on this Forum prepared to vouch for you.
>
> Regards,
>
> Bill Effros
> Author
>
> Merry McConnell wrote:
>
> Hello Bill,
>
> The sale is over and the highest bid was too low for me to accept.  I 
> kept my appointment with the lawyer this morning, but on different 
> terms.  I'm starting the process for bankruptcy and foreclosure...and 
> it does not feel good.
>
> The sale in itself was a wonderful experience.  We really felt we had 
> at least six serious bidders, but they all wanted to 'steal' the 
> property instead of buy it.  We had a total of 69 responses and
> about 40 people come through.  There were 16 names on the bidding 
> sheet and the majority dropped off at the 120,000 mark. 
>
> I still appreciate discovering this method for selling, because I've 
> learned so much through the process.  There's always a possibility 
> that I could have put a 'by owner' sale sign out front and
> attracted people with a different price range in their minds, because 
> even though I can hear you say over and over that the low bid I 
> received is the FMV, I feel I attracted people focused on the
> 109,500 I advertised.  Forgive me! 
>
> I've run out of time and I have my friend here with me for one more 
> week.  I could make a last ditch effort to run another add for this 
> weekend, but if I do that we wouldn't be able to 'dismantle' my house 
> and move the things out. 
>
> I'm still in disbelief that things didn't work out to at least a 
> reasonable closeness to the low figure I was willing to accept.  The 
> high bid was rediculous and I'm not willing to let someone come in on 
> such a low figure and benefit from my years of hard work and $$$$ 
> worth of improvements.
> I'd rather let the bank eat this one.
>
> Thank you again, Bill...really!
>
> Merry
>
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com 
> <mailto:bill at effros.com>> wrote:
>
> Good going, Merry!
>
> Most of the people who say they're coming back, and say they're going 
> to participate, will not.  Don't be discouraged by this, it doesn't 
> matter.
>
> You will only have 1 final buyer, and 2 others will push that buyer up 
> to fair market value.  All the rest are just window dressing.
>
> The people you are talking to are real.  You are real.  The process is 
> fair.
>
> No matter what the final bid, proceed.
>
> Let the high bidder negotiate with the bank -- just get out of the 
> way, and let both the high bidder and the bank know you are getting 
> out of the way before they start negotiating with each other.
>
> Others may call after the bidding.  Send them along to the bank, too 
> -- but let your high bidder get the first shot at your house.
>
> The price you are offered, even if it is much much lower than you 
> thought it would be, is the current fair market value.  If the bank 
> doesn't accept that fact, they will get to hold onto that house until 
> they learn.  If they do accept it, they will be able to get it, or 
> maybe a little bit more, from your high bidder or one of the other 
> bidders.
>
> In any case, you will have determined the fair market value, and sold 
> your home within 5 days.
>
> And that's the whole point of this exercise.
>
> Bill Effros
> Author
>
>
>
> Merry McConnell wrote:
>
> A Quick Update!
>
> Phew!
>
> I had 32 calls by Friday night...and this morning (Sat) the phone has 
> been ringing non-stop.
> One person offered a cash offer but I knew better!  Thank goodness 
> read the book!
> The house is C L E A N and de-cluttered, good smelling and all lights 
> are ON!  People LOVE
> it and I can /feel /determination to own from three sets.  Oh yeah...
>
> We (my friend and I) are having a ball...loving talking to people and 
> feeling comfortable with the
> entire process.  Everyone says they're going in on the Round Robin - 
> only four signed the sheet
> but others are bringing back spouses, etc.
>
> All I know is that people are awe-struck with the place and they all 
> 'want' it. 
>
> Thank you, Bill for writing this book...no matter how this works out.
>
> I have my appt. with my lawyer for the contract signing on Monday at 
> 10am....because I just
> /know /I'll need it!
>
> More Later!
>
> Merry
>
>   
>   
>   
>   
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing
>  list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> IF YOU THINK YOU CAN OR YOU THINK YOU CAN'T...YOU'RE RIGHT!  Henry Ford
>
>   
>   
>   
>   
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing
>  list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
>
>
>
> -----Inline Message Follows-----
>
> Title XL Chapter 702 of Florida Statutes regarding foreclosures:
>
>  
>
> http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0702/titl0702.htm&StatuteYear=2008&Title=%2D%3E2008%2D%3EChapter%20702 
> <http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0702/titl0702.htm&StatuteYear=2008&Title=%2D%3E2008%2D%3EChapter%20702>
>
>  
>
> Also, the lender ?may? sue for deficiency judgment as Florida laws do 
> allow for deficiency judgment:
>
>  
>
> http://www.foreclosurelaw.org/Florida_Foreclosure_Law.htm 
> <http://www.foreclosurelaw..org/Florida_Foreclosure_Law.htm>
>
>  
>
> Have them seek legal and tax advice as they probably will be zinged 
> with income taxes for the forgiven amount since the property is not a 
> primary residence.
>
>  
>
> -Naji
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* 
> 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] 
> *On Behalf Of *Andrew Silverberg
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 11, 2009 7:53 AM
> *To:* ' How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days '
> *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Short sale
>
>  
>
> Jim,
>
> I am working with someone in Florida on a short sale and when the 
> property sells there will be a significant shortfall / deficiency.  
> The property was purchased in a LLC formed in Fla but the Members are 
> from Maryland , and they personally guaranteed the loan. The Fla state 
> law allows them to walk away?  Where can I find documentation to 
> support that ? Thanks
>
>  
>
> Andrew Silverberg
>
> Broker & Investor
>
> Bethesda, Maryland
>
>  
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* James Fleming [mailto:jamesfleming.realestate at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:47 PM
> *To:* ' How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days '
> *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Short sale
>
>  
>
> Keith ?
>
>  
>
> An additional thing to know about Washington is that this state is a 
> non-recourse state.  By state law, Mortgage Lenders are prohibited 
> from suing borrowers for additional funds following foreclosures.  In 
> some states, the same is true for short sales.  There are a handful of 
> such ?walk-away? states with anti-deficiency laws.  They are Alaska , 
> Arizona , California , Connecticut , Florida , Idaho , North Carolina 
> , North Dakota , Texas and Utah .
>
>  
>
> Jim Fleming
>
> Realtor & Lecturer
>
>  
>
> Vancouver WA
>
>  
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* 
> 5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] 
> *On Behalf Of *Keith R. Pinster
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:14 AM
> *To:* ' How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days '
> *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Short sale
>
>  
>
> One very important thing about finding the right realtor to do a short 
> sale for you is their ability to negotiate with the bank.  If they 
> don?t know how (or thing that it is possible) to make sure the bank 
> will not issue a 1099-C for the difference between what you owe and 
> what the short sale price is, FIND A DIFFERENT REALTOR!  Sure, with a 
> hardship you can get out from under the 1099, but it is much better to 
> not have to deal with it in the first place.
>
>  
>
> Keith Pinster ? Real Estate Investor, Vancouver , WA
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* O'Day, Lili [mailto:lili at lilioday.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 10, 2009 8:42 AM
> *To:* How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...
>
>  
>
>  
>
> Why not do a short sale instead of a foreclosure?  The bank will take 
> less than is currently owed on the property and pay the cost of a 
> Realtor and your attorney costs to do a short sale.  If normally cost 
> the bank about approx $50,000 to foreclose, and they still won't get 
> more than the property is worth (Bill is correct the market is the 
> market after all).  A short sale would have less of a negative impact 
> on your credit report long term than a foreclosure. It's at least 
> worth a try.  If you go this route, make sure that the Realtor that 
> you use has knowledge of the short sale process and knows what they're 
> doing, so as not to waste time..  They need to be able to work well 
> with the asset manager in the loss mitigation department of your bank.
>
>  
>
> A lot of people are going through this.  It's a real nightmare!  Know 
> all your options before going forward with a forclosure.  Best of luck,
>
>  
>
> Lili O'Day
>
> Broker Associate  IL &FL
>
>  
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* 
> 5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] 
> *On Behalf Of *Bill Effros
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:23 AM
> *To:* How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Sale in Progress...
>
> Merry,
>
> Thanks for getting back to us.
>
> People all over the country are having the same experience you just 
> went through -- no one will pay anything near what the owner has in 
> the house. And it just gets worse.
>
> There is nothing home-owners can do but let the banks eat the losses.
>
> You clearly did everything you could do, and still you didn't come 
> close to the value the bank appraisers told you your home was worth 
> when you took your mortgage.
>
> Many, many people are in the same boat, and more discover they are in 
> this boat every day.
>
> The only thing that makes sense is for home owners to walk away from 
> these homes and mortgages, and that is what I am recommending to all 
> who finds themselves in the same same situation you are in.
>
> At some point everyone will realize that ALL mortgages must be re-set 
> to reflect current values, and that we will all have to pay for it.  
> (That is already going on in terms of bank bailouts--but the process 
> has not fairly reached down to homeowners who would be foolish to 
> continue paying outsized mortgages on homes that will not again be 
> worth what they paid for a long time.)
>
> At some point inflation will kick in again, and home prices will again 
> return to what they were -- but that process could take a decade.  No 
> one can say.
>
> In the meantime, go through the bankruptcy with the knowledge that you 
> did everything you could to avoid it.  The prices you were offered for 
> your home are the most anyone could get at this time, and you know you 
> cannot afford to wait for times to change. 
>
> We will all have to rebuild our finances, and I'm sure programs will 
> develop to ease the rebuilding for those hardest hit.
>
> Check in with us from time to time to let us know how you are doing.  
> As new resources develop for people with "upside-down" mortgages, we 
> will be talking about them, and how they alter the home-selling 
> market.  So many people share your dilemma, this country will have to 
> develop remedies -- and when they do, you can be sure there will be a 
> lot of people on this Forum prepared to vouch for you.
>
> Regards,
>
> Bill Effros
> Author
>
> Merry McConnell wrote:
>
> Hello Bill,
>
> The sale is over and the highest bid was too low for me to accept.  I 
> kept my appointment with the lawyer this morning, but on different 
> terms.  I'm starting the process for bankruptcy and foreclosure...and 
> it does not feel good.
>
> The sale in itself was a wonderful experience.  We really felt we had 
> at least six serious bidders, but they all wanted to 'steal' the 
> property instead of buy it.  We had a total of 69 responses and
> about 40 people come through.  There were 16 names on the bidding 
> sheet and the majority dropped off at the 120,000 mark. 
>
> I still appreciate discovering this method for selling, because I've 
> learned so much through the process.  There's always a possibility 
> that I could have put a 'by owner' sale sign out front and
> attracted people with a different price range in their minds, because 
> even though I can hear you say over and over that the low bid I 
> received is the FMV, I feel I attracted people focused on the
> 109,500 I advertised.  Forgive me! 
>
> I've run out of time and I have my friend here with me for one more 
> week.  I could make a last ditch effort to run another add for this 
> weekend, but if I do that we wouldn't be able to 'dismantle' my house 
> and move the things out. 
>
> I'm still in disbelief that things didn't work out to at least a 
> reasonable closeness to the low figure I was willing to accept.  The 
> high bid was rediculous and I'm not willing to let someone come in on 
> such a low figure and benefit from my years of hard work and $$$$ 
> worth of improvements.
> I'd rather let the bank eat this one.
>
> Thank you again, Bill...really!
>
> Merry
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com 
> <mailto:bill at effros.com>> wrote:
>
> Good going, Merry!
>
> Most of the people who say they're coming back, and say they're going 
> to participate, will not.  Don't be discouraged by this, it doesn't 
> matter.
>
> You will only have 1 final buyer, and 2 others will push that buyer up 
> to fair market value.  All the rest are just window dressing.
>
> The people you are talking to are real.  You are real.  The process is 
> fair.
>
> No matter what the final bid, proceed.
>
> Let the high bidder negotiate with the bank -- just get out of the 
> way, and let both the high bidder and the bank know you are getting 
> out of the way before they start negotiating with each other.
>
> Others may call after the bidding.  Send them along to the bank, too 
> -- but let your high bidder get the first shot at your house.
>
> The price you are offered, even if it is much much lower than you 
> thought it would be, is the current fair market value.  If the bank 
> doesn't accept that fact, they will get to hold onto that house until 
> they learn.  If they do accept it, they will be able to get it, or 
> maybe a little bit more, from your high bidder or one of the other 
> bidders.
>
> In any case, you will have determined the fair market value, and sold 
> your home within 5 days.
>
> And that's the whole point of this exercise.
>
> Bill Effros
> Author
>
>
>
> Merry McConnell wrote:
>
> A Quick Update!
>
> Phew!
>
> I had 32 calls by Friday night...and this morning (Sat) the phone has 
> been ringing non-stop.
> One person offered a cash offer but I knew better!  Thank goodness 
> read the book!
> The house is C L E A N and de-cluttered, good smelling and all lights 
> are ON!  People LOVE
> it and I can /feel /determination to own from three sets.  Oh yeah...
>
> We (my friend and I) are having a ball...loving talking to people and 
> feeling comfortable with the
> entire process.  Everyone says they're going in on the Round Robin - 
> only four signed the sheet
> but others are bringing back spouses, etc.
>
> All I know is that people are awe-struck with the place and they all 
> 'want' it. 
>
> Thank you, Bill for writing this book...no matter how this works out.
>
> I have my appt. with my lawyer for the contract signing on Monday at 
> 10am...because I just
> /know /I'll need it!
>
> More Later!
>
> Merry
>
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>  
>  
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> IF YOU THINK YOU CAN OR YOU THINK YOU CAN'T....YOU'RE RIGHT!  Henry Ford
>
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>  
>  
>
>
> -----Inline Message Follows-----
>
> Naji & Your Reator Friend,
>  
> I joined this forum to learn about people's experience with the 5 Day 
> Sale format
>  
> Not to listen to you two squabble .....
>  
> Please take your debate some place else and out of my inbox.
>  
> Thank-you,
>  
> Wade Fenner
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     *From:* Naji <mailto:nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>
>     *To:* 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
>     <mailto:5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>     *Sent:* Monday, March 09, 2009 8:01 PM
>     *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker
>
>     -          Correction? I know exactly what I?m talking about.
>     Usually a nerve is struck when the truth is told.
>
>     -          No BS here, just facts? Read the Nine Pillars of The
>     Citadel first or a paper by Mark S. Nadel
>     http://aei-brookings.org/admin/authorpdfs/redirect-safely.php?fname=../pdffiles/phpXf.pdf
>
>     -          No problem with ALL realtors? Problem with a broken
>     monopolistic model.
>
>     -          No bone to pick and No envy
>
>     -          I wouldn?t call an agent to show me a property unless
>     they charge a flat fee for their service just as I would only use
>     a financial advisor that only charges a flat fee as well. BTW, I
>     use an agent that simply charges a FLAT FEE for their FULL SERVICE
>     every time I buy an investment property or any other property? Why
>     you may ask? Because they only charge $2,995 and rebate the
>     difference when a commission is offered
>
>     -          No, you did not hit a nerve, but thank you for asking
>
>     -          Incorrect again? When I decide to purchase a property,
>     it?s purely from an investment point of view... If the price is
>     right and it makes sense financially, then I move forward? It?s
>     doesn?t matter if it?s FSBO, REO, MLS, SS, or any other type it
>     may be.
>
>      
>
>     As Upton Sinclair said ?It is difficult to get a man to understand
>     something when his salary depends on him not understanding it.?
>
>      
>
>     -Naji
>
>      
>
>      
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>     *From:*
>     5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>     [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
>     *On Behalf Of *Don Lynch
>     *Sent:* Monday, March 09, 2009 9:33 PM
>     *To:* How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
>     *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker
>
>      
>
>     Naji, You HAVE struck a nerve because you don't know what you are
>     talking about. The BS is spewing from where you stand. Again, I
>     don't know what your problem with realtor's is (full service or
>     otherwise) but I do know you have some kind of bone to pick, maybe
>     some kind of envy. I bet you would have no trouble calling an
>     agent to glean as much information about a property and even have
>     him show it to you, and then turn around and circumvent him/her.
>     Did I hit a nerve? Another question...when you are looking for a
>     property to buy and you find out it is a FSBO do you automatically
>     in your mind subtract 6% from the offer? I'll bet you do.
>
>      
>
>     Signed, an honest hard working (with no conflict of interest,
>     perceived or otherwise) realtor
>
>         ----- Original Message -----
>
>         *From:* Naji <mailto:nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>
>
>         *To:* 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
>         <mailto:5-dayforum at mailman..howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>
>         *Sent:* Monday, March 09, 2009 9:21 PM
>
>         *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker
>
>          
>
>         Jim,
>
>          
>
>         Obviously I hit a sensitive nerve with many Realtors on this
>         issue? You and I know that in the Realtors world, it?s all
>         about protecting the commission, period. So, let?s not fool
>         ourselves with the standard NAR BS and scare tactics that?s
>         been circulating for many decades? The big stock brokerage
>         firms used to say the same thing about the E-Trade?s and
>         Ameritrade?s of the world? where are Bear Stearns and Merrill
>         Lynch today? Same thing was said about Wal-Mart, Amazon.com,
>         Google, and many more industry leaders that decided to get
>         away from the antiquated business as usual model.
>
>          
>
>         Regarding conflict of interest? It doesn?t matter how many
>         laws are written, or how many disclosures are signed, a
>         conflict of interest automatically exists? You don?t get paid
>         unless the house sells? Therefore, whether a sale is a good
>         move or a bad move for the buyer or seller, it doesn?t matter
>         because you don?t get paid if the sale doesn?t close. I know
>         this is difficult to understand, but I think Author Upton
>         Sinclair explains it best ?It is difficult to get a man to
>         understand something when his salary depends on him not
>         understanding it.?
>
>          
>
>         Did you read Nine Pillars of the Citadel?
>
>          
>
>         Every monopoly will eventually be broken? The stranglehold of
>         the NAR will as well?. The sooner the average American
>         consumer gets educated the sooner this will happen.
>
>          
>
>         Best regards,
>
>          
>
>         -Naji
>
>          
>
>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>         *From:*
>         5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>         [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
>         *On Behalf Of *James Fleming
>         *Sent:* Monday, March 09, 2009 8:12 PM
>         *To:* ' How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days '
>         *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker
>
>          
>
>         Thank you Lauri for your posting.  I agree with you that the
>         portrayal of doctors and lawyers as professionals who charge
>         simple flat fees is incorrect.  Anyone who has ever worked at
>         a law firm or medical facility knows better.  Anyone who has
>         ever had serious legal or medical bills knows better. 
>
>          
>
>         Furthermore, lawyers and doctors are not paid based on
>         results.  Whether a lawyer wins or loses, you pay.  Whether a
>         doctor heals you or not, you pay.  They get paid handsomely
>         whether they succeed or fail.  It would be difficult to design
>         an arrangement more laden with potential conflict of interest
>         issues.  If you doubt this, just look at the amount of
>         mal-practice and E & O coverage that these professions carry. 
>
>          
>
>         Naji, to emphasize the inequity of a 6% Realtor commission,
>         states that ?If a doctor, attorney, plumber, or iron worker
>         was to charge 6% of the average American?s largest asset, I
>         would not use them either.?  Sounds compelling until you
>         really think about it.  What doctors and lawyers (I?m leaving
>         out plumbers and iron workers because, in my opinion, they
>         were included to make a point but really have no place in the
>         argument) charge is often several times more than 100% of the
>         average Americans largest asset.  Think about it.  How many
>         bankruptcies are filed every day by average Americans because
>         of medical and/or legal bills?  Actually, it might eliminate a
>         large percentage of bankruptcy filings if we could limit our
>         medical/legal bills to 6% of our most valuable asset in the
>         event of major health and legal issues.  I like it.
>
>          
>
>         Turning to conflicts of interest, the laws of agency in real
>         estate transactions were written largely for the purpose of
>         eliminating conflicts of interest.  These laws now apply in
>         every state.  In practice today, Realtors either represent
>         sellers or they represent buyers.  The exception to this
>         occurs when the Realtor acts as a ?dual agent?.   In instances
>         of dual agency, however, the Realtor must act neutrally.  S/he
>         may not advocate for either party, but instead must simply
>         conduct that transaction at the direction of both being
>         careful not to be pulled into conflicts of interest along the
>         way.  If one comes up, it must be disclosed to both parties.
>
>          
>
>         Naji, however, points to a few examples of conflicts of
>         interest that are different from above.  I?d like to address a
>         couple of them.  Naji mentions, for example, ?If you?re not
>         charging a FLAT FEE for your services, you automatically have
>         a built-in conflict of interest, period!! Just like the
>         financial advisor that doesn?t charge a flat fee, the car
>         salesperson, the annuity agent, etc??  I would suggest that
>         whether any of these people are paid on a commission or on a
>         flat fee basis, their job is to sell you products and
>         services.  Your job as the buyer is to make informed
>         decisions.  The sales people do not represent you, the buyer,
>         in any of these examples.  If Naji?s point is that the sales
>         person will try to sell the product or service that pays the
>         most commission, then again, it is up to the buyer to sort
>         through this and make an informed decision.
>
>          
>
>         The advantage in real estate is that you can have an advocate
>         whether you are a buyer or a seller.  Seller?s agents manage
>         their listings with the goal of pricing them properly and
>         marketing them extensively.  They never know what the mix of
>         buyers is at any point in time.  When a buyer comes along,
>         they do everything they can to promote the best interests of
>         their client ? the seller.  Equally, when a buyer?s agent
>         presents an offer on behalf of a client, it is the buyer?s
>         interests that the agent promotes above all.  Each of these
>         agents has a fiduciary responsibility to their respective
>         client.  This is true whether your Realtor is working for a
>         flat fee or for a commission.
>
>          
>
>         As a practical consideration, many flat fee brokerages are
>         what are called ?limited service? brokerages.  In other words,
>         they offer a menu of services from which their clients can
>         choose.  Clients only pay for what they get.  For example, the
>         brokerage may have one fee for listing your property in the
>         MLS, another for placing a sign in your yard, another for
>         flyers, another for a lockbox, another for advertising online,
>         another for showing your property to buyers, another for
>         conducting open houses, yet another for negotiating the sale
>         with the buyer?s agent, and so on.  Generally, firms with this
>         approach find it hard to stay in business as evidenced by the
>         recent (and third) bankruptcy filing of Help-U-Sell.  They
>         tend to appeal to uninformed first- time sellers or
>         financially strapped sellers who are desperate and don?t know
>         what they don?t know. 
>
>          
>
>         These two groups of sellers typically believe that real estate
>         agents are paid too much for the services they provide.  They
>         typically argue their point by using hypothetical comparisons.
>         They point to the associated costs of sales made with and
>         without full service Realtors.  They either point to the
>         increased money that one can make if a Realtor is excluded
>         from the equation, or the decreased amount they can get for
>         their house while still making the same net amount if they had
>         sold it for more using a Realtor.  In the abstract, the same
>         argument can be made for representing yourself in court, or
>         doing your own dental fillings.  In the real world, however,
>         ALL of life?s issues come into play.  People, who make
>         decisions based upon hypothetical or artificial constructs,
>         greatly increase their chances of unintended consequences. 
>         Unfortunately, these are often the same people who, as kids,
>         had to discover for themselves the perils of touching a hot stove.
>
>          
>
>         Jim Fleming, Realtor and Lecturer
>
>         Vancouver, WA
>
>          
>
>          
>
>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>         *From:*
>         5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>         [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+jamesfleming.realestate=gmail.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
>         *On Behalf Of *Soak Up the Sun
>         *Sent:* Monday, March 09, 2009 2:21 PM
>         *To:* How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
>         *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker
>
>          
>
>         I don't usually have a lot to say on the forums, however, I
>         read all the posts.
>         I have to say, if you think Doctors and Lawyers charge flat
>         fees, you are sorely mistaken..
>         I'm glad that you are happy with the flat fee real estate
>         person that you are using, and hope that they continue to meet
>         your needs.
>         Lauri
>
>          
>
>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>         *From:* Naji <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>
>         *To:* How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
>         <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>         *Sent:* Monday, March 9, 2009 11:38:02 AM
>         *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker
>
>         Dear PO ?d Realtor,
>
>          
>
>         I don?t have a problem with ALL Realtors? I have a problem
>         with Realtors that charge a commission due to the built-in
>         conflict of interest? I will continue to use Realtors that
>         charge a fair FLAT FEE for their services.
>
>          
>
>         -          Doctors ? No commissions
>
>         -          Attorneys ? No commissions
>
>         -          Plumbers ? No commissions
>
>         -          Iron Workers ? No commissions
>
>         -          Etc?
>
>          
>
>         If a doctor, attorney, plumber, or iron worker was to charge
>         6% of the average American?s largest asset, I would not use
>         them either. As for the MLS, the cost associated with using
>         the MLS is minimal for any licensed real estate agent, plus
>         you don?t have to be part of NAR or Local Realtor Association
>         to have access to MLS? Additionally, gathering all the
>         ?information? you are talking about takes minutes online.
>
>          
>
>         If you?re not charging a FLAT FEE for your services, you
>         automatically have a built-in conflict of interest, period!!
>         Just like the financial advisor that doesn?t charge a flat
>         fee, the car salesperson, the annuity agent, etc?
>
>          
>
>         My agent charges a FLAT FEE (Full service agent) of 2,995
>         regardless of the sale price? Which means, that she gets 2,995
>         for a house that sells for 200K or 2Million whether she finds
>         the buyer or another agent finds the buyer? Hence, NO CONFLICT
>         OF INTEREST and every home gets the same amount of HARD WORK!!
>
>          
>
>         Best wishes,
>
>          
>
>         -Naji
>
>          
>
>          
>
>          
>
>          
>
>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>         *From:*
>         5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>         [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
>         *On Behalf Of *Don Lynch
>         *Sent:* Monday, March 09, 2009 12:16 PM
>         *To:* How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
>         *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker
>
>          
>
>         I don't know what your problem  is with realtors. Maybe you
>         need to team up with Obama and go after doctors, lawyers,
>         plumbers, iron workers, etc. etc. If you don't like
>         realtors...DON'T USE THEM! And I don't know where you get your
>         figures from because I work my butt off to makeover $50k....it
>         isn't as easy as you think. MLS is a proprietary system set up
>         for realtors. If you want access to sales  go to the tax
>         records and assemble the info yourself...this work and effort
>         is not FREE! Again, if you think realtors are ripping you off,
>         don't use them.
>
>          
>
>         Signed, a hard working honest realtor...
>
>             ----- Original Message -----
>
>             *From:* Naji <mailto:nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>
>
>             *To:* 5-dayforum at howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>             <mailto:5-dayforum at howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>
>             *Sent:* Monday, March 09, 2009 12:03 PM
>
>             *Subject:* [5-DayForum] Why you shouldn't protect the broker
>
>              
>
>             Good article regarding the NAR and their monopolistic
>             hold? This was written in 2005 and many laws and lawsuits
>             against the NAR have been won since then that have changed
>             a few things but much more needs to be done to have a fair
>             system:
>
>              
>
>             http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/public/workshops/rewcom/213351.htm
>
>              
>
>              
>
>              
>
>              
>
>              
>
>             ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>             _______________________________________________
>             5-DayForum mailing list
>             5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>             http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>         Donald C. Lynch
>         500 Smokey Hollow Drive
>         Waxhaw , NC 28173
>         (704) 843-1392 - Office
>         (704) 243-3971 - fax
>         (407) 257-7845 - cell
>         (800) 880-7845
>         (704) 843-8325 - home
>         dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com <mailto:dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com>
>         http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/
>
>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         5-DayForum mailing list
>         5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>         http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>     Donald C. Lynch
>     500 Smokey Hollow Drive
>     Waxhaw , NC 28173
>     (704) 843-1392 - Office
>     (704) 243-3971 - fax
>     (407) 257-7845 - cell
>     (800) 880-7845
>     (704) 843-8325 - home
>     dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com <mailto:dlynch003 at carolina.rr.com>
>     http://www.marvincreekrealty.com/
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     _______________________________________________
>     5-DayForum mailing list
>     5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>     http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>     <http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days..com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum>
>
>
>
> -----Inline Message Follows-----
>
> Glenda,
>
> I've sold co-ops in NYC for years.
>
> You are defeating yourself by advertising early.
>
> You can never get the sale price you want if you want more than the 
> market says your co-op is currently worth.
>
> I always got more than I expected because I had reasonable 
> expectations for the market I was selling into, and ran my 5-Day sale 
> exactly as described in the book.
>
> Bill Effros
> Author
>
> V Glenda wrote:
>> Thanks, Guy.
>>
>> On another note, we've scheduled our 5 day sale on March 21-22 but we 
>> started advertising as of March 1.  We have not revealed the exact 
>> location and plan to do so the week of the sale.  We have it on the 
>> Times and Craigs List and have gotten about 100 responses both e-mail 
>> and phone calls.  I am just wondering if anyone has done this kind of 
>> sale in Manhattan on a coop?  Did you actually get the sale price you 
>> wanted if you follow the book to the T?
>>
>> Would appreciate any feedback. 
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Glenda
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> 5-DayForum mailing list
>> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>   
>
>
> -----Inline Message Follows-----
>
> I have a 1300 square commerical building which was a barber/beauty 
> shop, but could be used for office or small retail. It is in rural 
> small town in Michigan (population 2300).
>  
> I own it free and clear. Do you think the 5 Day plan would work for 
> selling this business.
>  
> Please respond to mnorris358 at yahoo.com <mailto:mnorris358 at yahoo.com>. 
> as my mutualdata in coming mail server is not working.
>  
> thanks
>
>
> -----Inline Message Follows-----
>
> Glenda,
> Bill is definitely the expert, but I am a little thick I guess.  As 
> long as you aren't giving out the address, I don't see what's wrong in 
> accumulating names of people that you can contact when the sale 
> weekend arrives.  Bill said this is a big waste of time and unlikely 
> that you will find the ultimate buyer in this group.  I understand it 
> is extra work, but if you are willing to do it, you might just add 
> some serious people to your open house who might otherwise miss the 5 
> day advertising.   I'm thinking of is as a way to enhance my 
> advertising, not a way to cheat the system.
> Tom Garter (owner, soon to be 5 day sale operator)
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
> To: "How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days" 
> <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 11:02:09 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
> Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] 5 Day Sale in Manhattan
>
> Glenda,
>
> I've sold co-ops in NYC for years.
>
> You are defeating yourself by advertising early.
>
> You can never get the sale price you want if you want more than the 
> market says your co-op is currently worth.
>
> I always got more than I expected because I had reasonable 
> expectations for the market I was selling into, and ran my 5-Day sale 
> exactly as described in the book.
>
> Bill Effros
> Author
>
> V Glenda wrote:
>
>     Thanks, Guy.
>
>     On another note, we've scheduled our 5 day sale on March 21-22 but
>     we started advertising as of March 1.  We have not revealed the
>     exact location and plan to do so the week of the sale.  We have it
>     on the Times and Craigs List and have gotten about 100 responses
>     both e-mail and phone calls.  I am just wondering if anyone has
>     done this kind of sale in Manhattan on a coop?  Did you actually
>     get the sale price you wanted if you follow the book to the T?
>
>     Would appreciate any feedback. 
>
>     Thanks,
>     Glenda
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     _______________________________________________
>     5-DayForum mailing list
>     5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>     http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>       
>
>
> _______________________________________________ 5-DayForum mailing 
> list 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum 
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum 
> <http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo..cgi/5-dayforum>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
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>   
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From bill at effros.com  Thu Mar 12 22:57:32 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 22:57:32 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] 5 Day Sale in Manhattan
In-Reply-To: <007701c9a2ea$edbaa950$4df3fea9@es>
References: <007701c9a2ea$edbaa950$4df3fea9@es>
Message-ID: <49B9CB9C.9040100@effros.com>

Kelsey,

You can't get legal advice here -- we're not lawyers.

5-Day Sales work best when the owner runs them. Other people can do it,
but if you have been following this Forum of late you read the anger of
many people toward real estate professionals who are widely blamed for
profiting from the bubble that preceded this bust.

You can do all the work for Glenda, but she will get a higher price if
she does it herself.

Bill Effros
Author



kelsey uh wrote:
>
> I have been helping Glenda with marketing. I am her friend.
>
> I have a real estate agent license. If Glenda goes on business trip on
> the inspection days, can I do the auction and round robin for her? Is
> it legal in NY state?
>
> Your response will be highly appreciated, as I have no time to check
> with county clerks and lawyers.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kelsey
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
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From gary_st_armand at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 13 12:20:55 2009
From: gary_st_armand at yahoo.com (Gary St. Armand)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 09:20:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [5-DayForum] 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 18
Message-ID: <221576.48279.qm@web45007.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Bill,
?
Have you ever written an article on using your method to rent an apartment.
I want my property manager to do the same thing, because I have 5 vacancies
in a 12-unit bldg.?I don't know if she'd actually take time to read your book to follow the directions even though it's fairly straight forward.


-Gary
I--- On Fri, 3/13/09, 5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com> wrote:


From: 5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Subject: 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 18
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Date: Friday, March 13, 2009, 4:00 PM


Send 5-DayForum mailing list submissions to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:

???1. Re: 5 Day Sale in Manhattan (Bill Effros)

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From sean at folkson.com  Fri Mar 13 07:40:45 2009
From: sean at folkson.com (Sean Folkson)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 12:40:45 +0100
Subject: [5-DayForum]  Pricing?
Message-ID: <200903131641.n2DGfBqH002343@intel1.peregrinehw.com>

In this case, the starting number shouldn't matter too much Lance.

One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did is that the people that 
would come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not able 
to afford what we wanted to sell it for (which was $350-$400K)

We had buyers that loved the house, but were only approved up into 
the $320K range.  We had great response to the ad...over 100 people 
came over the 2 days, and bids got up to $326,500.  All the buyers 
told me they were really looking for something cheaper, but they fell 
in love with our place and went higher than they even wanted to.

We chose not to sell, listed with a realtor, and ultimately got $358K 
for the house, 2-3 months later.  That sale was this past july.  When 
I do my next one in a month or two, I will be "tweaking the system", 
I'm sure much to Bill's dismay.  I can afford to do that, because on 
this property I'll be selling, I don't really care if it sells or 
not.  If it doesn't sell, my wife and I will move into it.

What I'll be doing is listing it for the lowest price we'd 
accept.  This will help ensure that any potential buyers who visit 
can afford to pay what we want for the house.  in this day and age of 
internet search and filters, listing at 50% of what you want might 
prevent you from having the right buyers find your property.  If you 
were looking for a house, you're looking in a price range.  If you 
enter a price range of $150-$200K, you can't afford to pay the 
$350-$400K the 5 day seller wants.  And, if you're a consumer looking 
to spend $350-$400K for a house, you'll likely never even see the ad 
for the house listed at $174,500.  And, if you do, you'll likely 
assume it's a dump and not something worth looking at.

sean


From kelseyuh at gmail.com  Fri Mar 13 14:27:36 2009
From: kelseyuh at gmail.com (kelsey uh)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:27:36 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] 5 Day Sale in Manhattan
In-Reply-To: <49B9CB9C.9040100@effros.com>
References: <007701c9a2ea$edbaa950$4df3fea9@es> <49B9CB9C.9040100@effros.com>
Message-ID: <15d6ee190903131127t2efbddeauca86d44898d82205@mail.gmail.com>

O.K. Thank you

On 3/12/09, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> Kelsey,
>
> You can't get legal advice here -- we're not lawyers.
>
> 5-Day Sales work best when the owner runs them. Other people can do it,
> but if you have been following this Forum of late you read the anger of
> many people toward real estate professionals who are widely blamed for
> profiting from the bubble that preceded this bust.
>
> You can do all the work for Glenda, but she will get a higher price if
> she does it herself.
>
> Bill Effros
> Author
>
>
>
> kelsey uh wrote:
>>
>> I have been helping Glenda with marketing. I am her friend.
>>
>> I have a real estate agent license. If Glenda goes on business trip on
>> the inspection days, can I do the auction and round robin for her? Is
>> it legal in NY state?
>>
>> Your response will be highly appreciated, as I have no time to check
>> with county clerks and lawyers.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Kelsey
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> 5-DayForum mailing list
>> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>
>

From real.estate.professor at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 13 16:01:52 2009
From: real.estate.professor at hotmail.com (Kyle Cascioli)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:01:52 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] 5 Day Sale in Manhattan
In-Reply-To: <15d6ee190903131127t2efbddeauca86d44898d82205@mail.gmail.com>
References: <007701c9a2ea$edbaa950$4df3fea9@es> <49B9CB9C.9040100@effros.com>
	<15d6ee190903131127t2efbddeauca86d44898d82205@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU122-W12696369B35B4FF9F5398B49C0@phx.gbl>


Agreed!

 

That's how we do it with with our seller and builder platforms and it works well.

 

Many buyers today want direct contact with sellers and builders.

 

Best to all, 

 

Kyle Cascioli

www.AuctionBySeller.com 

www.AuctionByBuilder.com 
 
> Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:27:36 -0400
> From: kelseyuh at gmail.com
> To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] 5 Day Sale in Manhattan
> 
> O.K. Thank you
> 
> On 3/12/09, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> > Kelsey,
> >
> > You can't get legal advice here -- we're not lawyers.
> >
> > 5-Day Sales work best when the owner runs them. Other people can do it,
> > but if you have been following this Forum of late you read the anger of
> > many people toward real estate professionals who are widely blamed for
> > profiting from the bubble that preceded this bust.
> >
> > You can do all the work for Glenda, but she will get a higher price if
> > she does it herself.
> >
> > Bill Effros
> > Author
> >
> >
> >
> > kelsey uh wrote:
> >>
> >> I have been helping Glenda with marketing. I am her friend.
> >>
> >> I have a real estate agent license. If Glenda goes on business trip on
> >> the inspection days, can I do the auction and round robin for her? Is
> >> it legal in NY state?
> >>
> >> Your response will be highly appreciated, as I have no time to check
> >> with county clerks and lawyers.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Kelsey
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> 5-DayForum mailing list
> >> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> >> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> >>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

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From bill at effros.com  Sat Mar 14 11:04:42 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 11:04:42 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
Message-ID: <49BBC78A.1090606@effros.com>

Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan


March 14, 2009
Your Money
By RON LIEBER 
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/l/ron_lieber/index.html?inline=nyt-per)

If you?re among the millions of people who will not qualify for the 
Obama administration?s program to help troubled homeowners, you?re 
probably wondering what you?re supposed to do now.

Perhaps you no longer have enough income to pay your loans 
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier). 
Or you can afford the payments but don?t qualify for refinancing under 
the new plan because the value of your home is too far below the balance 
of the loan. If you?re far enough underwater, you?re probably 
questioning the wisdom of writing a monthly check on a place that may 
take 10 or 15 years to get back to the value it had two or three years 
ago. It isn?t easy to come up with the answer, and if you have moral 
misgivings about not making good on your mortgage 
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/mortgages/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier), 
a religious officiant may offer as much useful guidance as a financial 
planner 
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/planning/financial-planners/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier).

In an economic environment like this one, however, the consequences of 
giving up on your mortgage may not be as painful as they were a few 
years ago. Yes, it?s almost always preferable to negotiate a better deal 
on your existing mortgage than to walk away. But if you can?t work 
things out with your lender, you probably won?t be sued. You shouldn?t 
receive a major tax bill either. And the damage to your credit will not 
be permanent or insurmountable.

Let?s look at these last three in order.

YOUR LENDER First off, let?s define what we mean by ?giving up? on your 
current mortgage. It may mean trying for a short sale 
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/s/short_selling/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier), 
where the lender allows you to sell your home for less than the mortgage 
amount. You may also hand over the deed to the home in exchange for the 
lender agreeing not to start foreclosure proceedings (a ?deed in lieu? 
in industry terms). Then, there?s foreclosure itself, and the 
possibility that bankruptcy judges may soon have the power to adjust the 
terms of primary mortgages.

That said, just because you?re ineligible under the Obama plan doesn?t 
mean that your lender or servicer won?t ultimately adjust your mortgage 
anyhow. Collectively, there are enough people in trouble or under water 
on their loans that they have plenty of leverage if they?re willing to 
play chicken with their lender and threaten to stop paying.

The problem is, the lender can play chicken, too, by threatening to come 
after you for the balance of any money you owe ? whether it?s the 
difference between what you sell the property for yourself and the 
remaining mortgage, or the loan amount left over after the lender sells 
your property in foreclosure.

The lender may not follow through, though. ?What our membership is 
telling us is that it can be cost-prohibitive to chase down a borrower 
who is already in financial distress,? said John Mechem, a spokesman for 
the Mortgage Bankers Association. ?You can?t squeeze blood from a 
stone.? They may, however, still come after people with high incomes who 
walk away from jumbo loans that are way under water or loans on 
investment 
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/investments/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) 
properties.

Some states have laws that may specifically prohibit lenders from 
pursuing borrowers for the balance of many mortgage loans after 
foreclosure, though the particulars vary. Arizona and California are 
among these states, according to Steven Bender, a professor at the 
University of Oregon 
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/u/university_of_oregon/index.html?inline=nyt-org) 
School of Law. It?s best to talk to a lawyer to determine your state?s 
rules.

In fact, if you want to be sure your lender (or a collection agency that 
it may sell your loan to) won?t chase you down, it?s a good idea to have 
a lawyer involved with any short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure 
itself. ?You must get the bank to agree in writing that any deficiency 
is waived,? said Chip Parker, a lawyer specializing in foreclosure with 
Parker & DuFresne in Jacksonville, Fla.

The biggest challenge here may simply be finding someone at the bank to 
help. Having a second mortgage will also complicate matters.

YOUR TAXES You also need to consider the taxman. Often, forgiven debts 
are taxable as income. Recent legislative changes, however, eliminate 
the federal tax burden through 2012 on most primary residence debt that 
a lender has reduced through loan restructuring or forgiven during 
foreclosure.

Mark Luscombe, principal analyst for CCH, a tax information service, 
said that people who sell their home through a short sale or give up the 
deed in lieu of foreclosure can also qualify for tax relief if they use 
a special tax form, 1099-C, that reflects the amount of debt that the 
lender has forgiven.

People who live in states with their own income taxes may avoid a big 
bill as well. Some states, like Arizona and California, have introduced 
or passed legislation that echoes the federal laws, according to the 
National Conference of State Legislatures. Many others tend to mimic 
most or all federal income tax laws as a general rule, according to CCH. 
Check with an accountant in your state to be sure.

YOUR CREDIT A short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure itself will almost 
certainly damage your credit report and score, and the black mark will 
last for up to seven years. But the amount of damage it does will depend 
on how much other credit trouble you?ve gotten yourself into with other 
lenders.

If you?re giving up the home you own, you?ll probably need to rent soon 
afterward. Will landlords turn you away once they check your credit and 
discover your troubled mortgage? ?If it?s the only thing marring their 
credit, it?s probably not a big issue,? said Clay Powell, the director 
of the Rental Property Owners Association of Michigan, who added that 
good tenants could be scarce in economic environments like this one.

In fact, Todd J. Zywicki, a law professor at George Mason University, 
predicted that FICO may have to adjust its credit scores 
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-scores/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) 
to lessen the impact of a foreclosure or similar incident. ?It just 
seems obvious that a foreclosure in 2008 or 2009 doesn?t have as much 
information value as a foreclosure five years ago,? he said. ?To the 
extent that foreclosure doesn?t predict future behavior as much as it 
did in the past, you?d expect that the FICO algorithm would change to 
adjust for that.?

Craig Watts, a spokesman for FICO, said that was an interesting idea. 
?We try not to get involved too much in psychobabble around what is and 
isn?t predictive,? he said. ?If the numbers show that foreclosure is 
less predictive, then we?ll take it into account in future 
redevelopments of the formula.? That would take a minimum of two to 
three years, though.

Some lenders aren?t waiting that long to initiate their own foreclosure 
destigmatization programs. The Golden 1, one of the nation?s largest 
credit unions, now has a mortgage repair loan for people who have lost a 
home to foreclosure but want to buy a new one.

It?s hard to imagine that there won?t be a parade of insurance 
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/insurance/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) 
companies, credit card 
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-and-debit-cards/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) 
issuers and mortgage lenders in Golden 1?s wake, even though Fannie Mae 
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/fannie_mae/index.html?inline=nyt-org) 
and Freddie Mac 
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/freddie_mac/index.html?inline=nyt-org) 
may be unwilling to guarantee the mortgages of such borrowers for 
several years. In fact, Aaron Bresko, the vice president of lending for 
BECU, another large credit union based in Washington State, is putting 
together a panel called ?How to Lend to the Newly Credit Impaired? for a 
conference later this year.

?Good people have bad things happen to them, so how do you find those 
people and reach out to them?? he said. ?As the year progresses, it?s 
going to be an emerging market.?

How are you handling your mortgage problems?
Write to rlieber at nytimes.com.


From rcutcher at austin.rr.com  Sat Mar 14 11:05:53 2009
From: rcutcher at austin.rr.com (RC Cutcher)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 10:05:53 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum]   Pricing?
Message-ID: <002d01c9a4b6$5f4dff00$0201a8c0@RCCutcher>

Shean writes:

One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did is that the people that 
would come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not able 
to afford what we wanted to sell it for (which was $350-$400K)

There are a least of couple of us on the Forum that will agree with you about pricing a property at 50%.  However unlogical it appears, failure is often assigned because a Seller didn't follow the letter of the law (or book) on that point. 

I use a more emotional response to the price by assigning these tags:

Ridiculous
Tiny
Small
Medium
Large

I find that if a potential buyer doesn't believe he/she has a chance at getting the property somewhere between Tiny and Small, they feel deceived and damaged.  And then  they believe that the property must be stigmatized by some unknown defect or building flaw. 

So I think you are on the right track, Shean.  Stay away from ridiculous (50%) pricing, and do the hard work to figure out how to get the property into the 'tiny' range. 

RC Cutcher
Realtor, ABR
Austin Texas Homes, LLC
www.austintexashomes.com
512-848-4449

The Short Sale/Foreclosure Workshop
Trec Provider No. 0623
Course No. 7436

Broker Price Opinion Training
Every Friday

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From rcutcher at austin.rr.com  Sat Mar 14 11:10:21 2009
From: rcutcher at austin.rr.com (RC Cutcher)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 10:10:21 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum]    Pricing?
Message-ID: <003501c9a4b6$feb99c70$0201a8c0@RCCutcher>

2nd try

Sean writes:

One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did is that the people that 
would come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not able 
to afford what we wanted to sell it for (which was $350-$400K)

RC writes:

There are a least of couple of us on the Forum that will agree with you about pricing a property at 50%.  However unlogical it appears, failure is often assigned because a Seller didn't follow the letter of the law (or book) on that point. 

I use a more emotional response to the price by assigning these tags:

Ridiculous
Tiny
Small
Medium
Large

I find that if a potential buyer doesn't believe he/she has a chance at getting the property somewhere between Tiny and Small, they feel deceived and damaged.  And then  they believe that the property must be stigmatized by some unknown defect or building flaw. 

So I think you are on the right track, Sean.  Stay away from ridiculous (50%) pricing, and do the hard work to figure out how to get the property into the 'tiny' range. 

RC Cutcher
Realtor, ABR
Austin Texas Homes, LLC
www.austintexashomes.com
512-848-4449

The Short Sale/Foreclosure Workshop
Trec Provider No. 0623
Course No. 7436

Broker Price Opinion Training
Every Friday
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From bill at effros.com  Sat Mar 14 15:53:27 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 15:53:27 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Pricing?
In-Reply-To: <003501c9a4b6$feb99c70$0201a8c0@RCCutcher>
References: <003501c9a4b6$feb99c70$0201a8c0@RCCutcher>
Message-ID: <49BC0B37.9080901@effros.com>

OK,

Here we go again.

RC Cutcher is a real estate professional in the market every day.  He 
actually knows what homes are selling for in his area, and is constantly 
buying and selling homes for his own account.

RC Cutcher is NOT a private home seller.

Private home owners know what they paid for their homes, a short while 
or a long while ago, and little else.

Brokers don't have a clue, -- they told you your home was worth what you 
paid when you bought it.  Now they are telling you they can't sell it 
for that amount, but if you list with them, maybe they can find you a 
buyer sometime in the future for some amount they have imagined out of 
thin air.

Here's what I'm saying:

Take the number you think your home is currently worth -- based on any 
factors you choose to use -- and TEST THAT NUMBER BEFORE WASTING ANY 
MORE TIME OR MONEY!

You test by offering your home for just 3 days in the best media you can 
think of in your region.

If you get 25 responses by Friday night you can know that your home is 
worth substantially more than the advertised price at the current time.  
It could be worth twice as much as the advertised price.  It could be 
worth a little less.  It could be worth a little more.  But you can be 
certain that the advertised price was EXTREMELY ATTRACTIVE to a large 
number of people looking to buy homes at the present time.

That's what you know.  Nothing more.  Nothing less.

Now, if you start fudging around with your starting price, or the number 
of responses you get...you don't know anything for sure...and in my 
humble opinion you are looking for failure if you proceed with a 5-Day 
Sale without really knowing if your starting price is wildly below the 
price you can expect to get.

When RC runs 5-Day Sales he has many additional properties for sale.  If 
he ropes them in on one price and sells a different home for a different 
price, of course many participants accuse him of a bait and switch, 
because that's exactly what he has done.

But that is not what private home sellers are doing, at all. 

When private home sellers sell their homes using the 5-Day Method 
properly (start at an honest 50% -- take the high bid) nobody is mad at 
them.  People who don't have the money are grateful for being treated 
like everyone else, and being allowed to inspect a fine home slightly 
beyond their means.  They only get mad if you treat them differently 
from anybody else, or insult their ability to ever own your home.

People who have the means to afford the house know they have paid a fair 
price at the current time.

The formulas presented in the book have been developed over 20 years of 
trial and error.  They work in good times.   They work in bad times.  
They work more often for more people than any other formulas I've been 
asked to consider.

Don't re-invent this wheel.  Don't listen to the advice of people whose 
circumstances are significantly different from your own.

Bill Effros
Author





RC Cutcher wrote:
> 2nd try
>  
> Sean writes:
>
> One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did is that the people that
> would come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not able
> to afford what we wanted to sell it for (which was $350-$400K)
>
> RC writes:
>  
> There are a least of couple of us on the Forum that will agree with 
> you about pricing a property at 50%.  However unlogical it appears, 
> failure is often assigned because a Seller didn't follow the letter of 
> the law (or book) on that point.
>
> I use a more emotional response to the price by assigning these tags:
>
> Ridiculous
> Tiny
> Small
> Medium
> Large
>
> I find that if a potential buyer doesn't believe he/she has a chance 
> at getting the property somewhere between Tiny and Small, they feel 
> deceived and damaged.  And then  they believe that the property must 
> be stigmatized by some unknown defect or building flaw.
>
> So I think you are on the right track, Sean.  Stay away from 
> ridiculous (50%) pricing, and do the hard work to figure out how to 
> get the property into the 'tiny' range.
>
> RC Cutcher
> Realtor, ABR
> Austin Texas Homes, LLC
> www.austintexashomes.com
> 512-848-4449
>
> The Short Sale/Foreclosure Workshop
> Trec Provider No. 0623
> Course No. 7436
>
> Broker Price Opinion Training
> Every Friday
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
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From nkhouri at cfl.rr.com  Sat Mar 14 16:29:22 2009
From: nkhouri at cfl.rr.com (Naji)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 16:29:22 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Pricing?
In-Reply-To: <49BC0B37.9080901@effros.com>
References: <003501c9a4b6$feb99c70$0201a8c0@RCCutcher>
	<49BC0B37.9080901@effros.com>
Message-ID: <8000569D82BA4B39ABF8895F77A2B5E0@NSKHome>

Factors to use when pricing your home:

 

1.	If you purchased your home during the bubble (last 5 - 7 Years),
you?re SOL
 The home is not worth anything close to what you think its
worth. Expect to do a short sale or walk away from it. 
2.	If you?ve owned your home for a while:

a.	Get the last 3-5 sales in your neighborhood or within ? mile of your
home for the last 3 months. Figure out the Price Per Square foot and apply
to your home
 This is just to give you an idea/starting point
 Sale prices
are not accurate in many cases due to seller concessions, giveaways, and
other costs that are lumped in the sale price.
b.	Find out how many foreclosures/bank owned properties are in your
neighborhood or within ? mile of your home
 This will give you an idea of
what the distressed properties nearby are going for to see what you?re
competing against
c.	Also, see what?s on the market in your neighborhood or within ? mile
of your home and figure out the average asking price per square foot. Again
to see what others are asking for their homes
 This again is also to see
what others are ?hoping? to get for their property
d.	If you are the first owner of the house, multiply your original
purchase price by 3%-5% compounded annually. If you?re not the first owner,
find out what the first owner paid for the property and run the numbers
accordingly
 For example, if you or the first home owner purchased the home
in 1990 for 100K, 3% appreciation over the last 19 years = $175,350, 4% =
$210,685, 5% = $252,695

 

This information should at least give you a range of what your home ?should?
be worth in a normal market
 If the number you?re expecting is much higher
than what the data indicates, then you need to get realistic or plan on
staying in the home until the tide shifts
 in this case is at least 10
years.

 

-Naji

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 3:53 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Pricing?

 

OK,

Here we go again.

RC Cutcher is a real estate professional in the market every day.  He
actually knows what homes are selling for in his area, and is constantly
buying and selling homes for his own account.

RC Cutcher is NOT a private home seller.

Private home owners know what they paid for their homes, a short while or a
long while ago, and little else.

Brokers don't have a clue, -- they told you your home was worth what you
paid when you bought it.  Now they are telling you they can't sell it for
that amount, but if you list with them, maybe they can find you a buyer
sometime in the future for some amount they have imagined out of thin air.

Here's what I'm saying:

Take the number you think your home is currently worth -- based on any
factors you choose to use -- and TEST THAT NUMBER BEFORE WASTING ANY MORE
TIME OR MONEY!

You test by offering your home for just 3 days in the best media you can
think of in your region.

If you get 25 responses by Friday night you can know that your home is worth
substantially more than the advertised price at the current time.  It could
be worth twice as much as the advertised price.  It could be worth a little
less.  It could be worth a little more.  But you can be certain that the
advertised price was EXTREMELY ATTRACTIVE to a large number of people
looking to buy homes at the present time.

That's what you know.  Nothing more.  Nothing less.

Now, if you start fudging around with your starting price, or the number of
responses you get...you don't know anything for sure...and in my humble
opinion you are looking for failure if you proceed with a 5-Day Sale without
really knowing if your starting price is wildly below the price you can
expect to get.

When RC runs 5-Day Sales he has many additional properties for sale.  If he
ropes them in on one price and sells a different home for a different price,
of course many participants accuse him of a bait and switch, because that's
exactly what he has done.

But that is not what private home sellers are doing, at all.  

When private home sellers sell their homes using the 5-Day Method properly
(start at an honest 50% -- take the high bid) nobody is mad at them.  People
who don't have the money are grateful for being treated like everyone else,
and being allowed to inspect a fine home slightly beyond their means.  They
only get mad if you treat them differently from anybody else, or insult
their ability to ever own your home.

People who have the means to afford the house know they have paid a fair
price at the current time.

The formulas presented in the book have been developed over 20 years of
trial and error.  They work in good times.   They work in bad times.  They
work more often for more people than any other formulas I've been asked to
consider.

Don't re-invent this wheel.  Don't listen to the advice of people whose
circumstances are significantly different from your own.

Bill Effros
Author





RC Cutcher wrote: 

2nd try

 

Sean writes:

One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did is that the people that 
would come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not able 
to afford what we wanted to sell it for (which was $350-$400K)

RC writes:

 

There are a least of couple of us on the Forum that will agree with you
about pricing a property at 50%.  However unlogical it appears, failure is
often assigned because a Seller didn't follow the letter of the law (or
book) on that point. 

I use a more emotional response to the price by assigning these tags:

Ridiculous
Tiny
Small
Medium
Large

I find that if a potential buyer doesn't believe he/she has a chance at
getting the property somewhere between Tiny and Small, they feel deceived
and damaged.  And then  they believe that the property must be stigmatized
by some unknown defect or building flaw. 

So I think you are on the right track, Sean.  Stay away from ridiculous
(50%) pricing, and do the hard work to figure out how to get the property
into the 'tiny' range. 

RC Cutcher
Realtor, ABR
Austin Texas Homes, LLC
www.austintexashomes.com
512-848-4449

The Short Sale/Foreclosure Workshop
Trec Provider No. 0623
Course No. 7436

Broker Price Opinion Training
Every Friday

 





  _____  



 
_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
  
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From lbicon at aol.com  Sat Mar 14 17:30:54 2009
From: lbicon at aol.com (lbicon at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 17:30:54 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Pricing?
In-Reply-To: <8000569D82BA4B39ABF8895F77A2B5E0@NSKHome>
References: <003501c9a4b6$feb99c70$0201a8c0@RCCutcher><49BC0B37.9080901@effros.com>
	<8000569D82BA4B39ABF8895F77A2B5E0@NSKHome>
Message-ID: <8CB73034A5E76D7-16A8-A81@WEBMAIL-DZ34.sysops.aol.com>

Naji,

Great advice. Not sure about the compounding. There are too many factors to simplify it the way you have. Here is an example I bought 2 homes in NJ in 1980 and 1981. The first home was 5 miles from NYC and the other home was about 100 miles from NYC. The first home cost me $165K and the second home cost me $174K. I sold the first home last year for $450K and the second home I could sell?next week for $900K. So straight line compunding doesn't work.

As for the "at least ten years". Nobody can predict where RE will be in 10 years. Especially us Mushrooms.

Have a great weekend.

Conrad


-----Original Message-----
From: Naji <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>
To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days' <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Sent: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 1:29 pm
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Pricing?




Factors to use when pricing your home:

?


If you purchased your home during the bubble (last 5 - 7 Years), you?re SOL? The home is not worth anything close to what you think its worth. Expect to do a short sale or walk away from it. 

If you?ve owned your home for a while:


Get the last 3-5 sales in your neighborhood or within ? mile of your home for the last 3 months. Figure out the Price Per Square foot and apply to your home? This is just to give you an idea/starting point? Sale prices are not accurate in many cases due to seller concessions, giveaways, and other costs that are lumped in the sale price.

Fi
nd out how many foreclosures/bank owned properties are in your neighborhood or within ? mile of your home? This will give you an idea of what the distressed properties nearby are going for to see what you?re competing against

Also, see what?s on the market in your neighborhood or within ? mile of your home and figure out the average asking price per square foot. Again to see what others are asking for their homes? This again is also to see what others are ?hoping? to get for their property

If you are the first owner of the house, multiply your original purchase price by 3%-5% compounded annually. If you?re not the first owner, find out what the first owner paid for the property and run the numbers accordingly? For example, if you or the first home owner purchased the home in 1990 for 100K, 3% appreciation over the last 19 years = $175,350, 4% = $210,685, 5% = $252,695



?

This information should at least give you a range of what your home ?should? be worth in a normal market? If the number you?re expecting is much higher than what the data indicates, then you need to get realistic or plan on staying in the home until the tide shifts? in this case is at least 10 years.

?

-Naji

?




From: 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
Sent: Saturday, Marc
h 14, 2009 3:53 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Pricing?


?

OK,

Here we go again.

RC Cutcher is a real estate professional in the market every day.? He actually knows what homes are selling for in his area, and is constantly buying and selling homes for his own account.

RC Cutcher is NOT a private home seller.

Private home owners know what they paid for their homes, a short while or a long while ago, and little else.

Brokers don't have a clue, -- they told you your home was worth what you paid when you bought it.? Now they are telling you they can't sell it for that amount, but if you list with them, maybe they can find you a buyer sometime in the future for some amount they have imagined out of thin air.

Here's what I'm saying:

Take the number you think your home is currently worth -- based on any factors you choose to use -- and TEST THAT NUMBER BEFORE WASTING ANY MORE TIME OR MONEY!

You test by offering your home for just 3 days in the best media you can think of in your region.

If you get 25 responses by Friday night you can know that your home is worth substantially more than the advertised price at the current time.? It could be worth twice as much as the advertised price.? It could be worth a little less.? It could be worth a little more.? But you can be certain that the advertised price was EXTREMELY ATTRACTIVE to a large number of people looking to buy homes at t
he present time.

That's what you know.? Nothing more.? Nothing less.

Now, if you start fudging around with your starting price, or the number of responses you get...you don't know anything for sure...and in my humble opinion you are looking for failure if you proceed with a 5-Day Sale without really knowing if your starting price is wildly below the price you can expect to get.

When RC runs 5-Day Sales he has many additional properties for sale.? If he ropes them in on one price and sells a different home for a different price, of course many participants accuse him of a bait and switch, because that's exactly what he has done.

But that is not what private home sellers are doing, at all.? 

When private home sellers sell their homes using the 5-Day Method properly (start at an honest 50% -- take the high bid) nobody is mad at them.? People who don't have the money are grateful for being treated like everyone else, and being allowed to inspect a fine home slightly beyond their means.? They only get mad if you treat them differently from anybody else, or insult their ability to ever own your home.

People who have the means to afford the house know they have paid a fair price at the current time.

The formulas presented in the book have been developed over 20 years of trial and error.? They work in good times.?? They work in bad times.? They work more often for more people than any other formulas I've been asked to consider.

Don't
 re-invent this wheel.? Don't listen to the advice of people whose circumstances are significantly different from your own.

Bill Effros
Author





RC Cutcher wrote: 


2nd try



?



Sean writes:

One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did is that the people that 
would come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not able 
to afford what we wanted to sell it for (which was $350-$400K)

RC writes:



?



There are a least of couple of us on the Forum that will agree with you about pricing a property at 50%.? However unlogical it appears, failure is often assigned because a Seller didn't follow the letter of the law (or book) on that point. 

I use a more emotional response to the price by assigning these tags:

Ridiculous
Tiny
Small
Medium
Large

I find that if a potential buyer doesn't believe he/she has a chance at getting the property somewhere between Tiny and Small, they feel deceived and damaged.? And then? they believe that the property must be stigmatized by some unknown defect or building flaw. 

So I think you are on the right track, Sean.? Stay away from ridiculous (50%) pricing, and do the hard work to figure out how to get the property into the 'tiny' range. 

RC Cutcher
Realtor, ABR
Austin Texas Homes, LLC
www.austintexashomes.com
512-848-4449

The Short Sale/Foreclosure Workshop
Trec Provider No. 0623
Course No. 7436

Broker Price Opinion Training
Every Friday


?




?

______
_________________________________________

5-DayForum mailing list

5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com

http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

? 




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-DayForum mailing list
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From rcutcher at austin.rr.com  Sat Mar 14 19:55:06 2009
From: rcutcher at austin.rr.com (RC Cutcher)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 18:55:06 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum]  Pricing?
Message-ID: <000901c9a500$4dbdfed0$0201a8c0@RCCutcher>

Bill writes:

When RC runs 5-Day Sales he has many additional properties for sale.  If he ropes them in on one price and sells a different home for a different price, of course many participants accuse him of a bait and switch, because that's exactly what he has done.

RC writes:

lol. Do you know something about me that I don't know? I can't ever remember anyone accussing me of  'bait and switch.'  Perhaps you are suggesting that lots of Realtors take sign calls and then show unrepresented buyers another property. I refer all buyer calls out to buyer agents who show them all possible available properties. It is illegal to do dual agency in Texas.  Their agents can show my other homes if they choose.  

The 'price point' choice really doesn't have much do with whether a person is offering on a FSBO or MLS Listing, in my opinion.  I simply disagree with you about setting the bar so low that it  could confuse  potential buyers and eliminate other potential candidates. That appeard to be Sean's point. I suppose someone could come along and take your argument and attempt to provide a reasoned thought to start at 40%. 

Ain't no magic in numbers, my friend.  

RC Cutcher
Austin Texas Homes, LLC
www.austintexashomes.com
512-848-4449
RC_Cutcher at Helloworld.com

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From tgarter at comcast.net  Sat Mar 14 20:20:51 2009
From: tgarter at comcast.net (tgarter at comcast.net)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 00:20:51 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [5-DayForum] Pricing?
In-Reply-To: <000901c9a500$4dbdfed0$0201a8c0@RCCutcher>
Message-ID: <1408336225.4064751237076451339.JavaMail.root@sz0064a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

I go to this forum because it's about Bill's Book "How to Sell you Home in 5 days" I've read the book and it is clearly for homeowners choosing not to use a professional. I think it's great that those with experience share it, but I'm not on this forum to waste my time reading every post from bickering professionals. I'm kind of tired of it. This forum is about the 5 day sale. If I do a 5 day sale, I can either follow the book or make up my own rules. I think it would be great if someone had as much conviction and success as Bill and they write their own book. I'll stand in the bookstore, read most of it as I did, if it seems like it's any good then I'll buy it. Every part of Bill's book makes sense. I've had a few questions myself, but he has what appears to be a solid logical answer for every aspect. What's the point in arguing whether his book is correct or not ? 
Tom Garter (plan to do a sale in May) 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "RC Cutcher" <rcutcher at austin.rr.com> 
To: "How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days" <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com> 
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 7:55:06 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern 
Subject: [5-DayForum] Pricing? 


Bill writes: 

When RC runs 5-Day Sales he has many additional properties for sale. If he ropes them in on one price and sells a different home for a different price, of course many participants accuse him of a bait and switch, because that's exactly what he has done. 

RC writes: 

lol. Do you know something about me that I don't know? I can't ever remember anyone accussing me of 'bait and switch.' Perhaps you are suggesting that lots of Realtors take sign calls and then show unrepresented buyers another property. I refer all buyer calls out to buyer agents who show them all possible available properties. It is illegal to do dual agency in Texas. Their agents can show my other homes if they choose. 

The 'price point' choice really doesn't have much do with whether a person is offering on a FSBO or MLS Listing, in my opinion. I simply disagree with you about setting the bar so low that it could confuse potential buyers and eliminate other potential candidates. That appeard to be Sean's point. I suppose someone could come along and take your argument and attempt to provide a reasoned thought to start at 40%. 

Ain't no magic in numbers, my friend. 

RC Cutcher 
Austin Texas Homes, LLC 
www.austintexashomes.com 
512-848-4449 
RC_Cutcher at Helloworld.com 


_______________________________________________ 5-DayForum mailing list 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum 
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From nkhouri at cfl.rr.com  Sat Mar 14 22:11:53 2009
From: nkhouri at cfl.rr.com (Naji)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 22:11:53 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Pricing?
In-Reply-To: <8CB73034A5E76D7-16A8-A81@WEBMAIL-DZ34.sysops.aol.com>
References: <003501c9a4b6$feb99c70$0201a8c0@RCCutcher><49BC0B37.9080901@effros.com><8000569D82BA4B39ABF8895F77A2B5E0@NSKHome>
	<8CB73034A5E76D7-16A8-A81@WEBMAIL-DZ34.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <297E8497A7004B66B51163A5EDD5E13B@NSKHome>

Thanks Conrad
 As I said, this should be a starting point for pricing
 It
all depends on Location, Location, and Location after all :-)

 

As for the 10 years part, I believe based on historical analysis and
previous bubbles; gold, oil, commodities, stocks (dot com), etc, etc
 It?s
safe to say that out of whack bubbles take an extremely long time to
stabilize and then reach the previous peak:

 

-          Gold hit 850 in 1980
 It took almost 30 years to get back to that
point, but if we adjust for inflation, we need to be around 1600 to equal
1980 prices

-          Oil the all time high of the 1970?s last year (105 Adjusted for
inflation) 
 Again, more than 30 years later then it shot up past the 1970?s
highs only to drop down to the 40-50 range now

-          The Nasdaq hit 5048 in 2000
 Here we are 9 years later and the
Nasdaq is sitting at 1430

 

The problem with housing are many; too many people upside down on their
homes, too many homes on the market, too many vacant homes, too many ghost
towns especially in bubble markets
 To clear all the inventories and for
people to get back in the black on their homes will take a very long time.
Of course some regions will recover sooner than others, but when it comes to
Florida, California, Nevada, and Arizona, I think 10 years is playing it
safe.

 

Best regards,

 

-Naji

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of lbicon at aol.com
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 5:31 PM
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Pricing?

 

Naji,

Great advice. Not sure about the compounding. There are too many factors to
simplify it the way you have. Here is an example I bought 2 homes in NJ in
1980 and 1981. The first home was 5 miles from NYC and the other home was
about 100 miles from NYC. The first home cost me $165K and the second home
cost me $174K. I sold the first home last year for $450K and the second home
I could sell next week for $900K. So straight line compunding doesn't work.

As for the "at least ten years". Nobody can predict where RE will be in 10
years. Especially us Mushrooms.

Have a great weekend.

Conrad


-----Original Message-----
From: Naji <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>
To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
<5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Sent: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 1:29 pm
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Pricing?

Factors to use when pricing your home:

 

1.	If you purchased your home during the bubble (last 5 - 7 Years),
you?re SOL
 The home is not worth anything close to what you think its
worth. Expect to do a short sale or walk away from it. 
2.	If you?ve owned your home for a while:

a.	Get the last 3-5 sales in your neighborhood or within ? mile of your
home for the last 3 months. Figure out the Price Per Square foot and apply
to your home
 This is just to give you an idea/starting point
 Sale prices
are not accurate in many cases due to seller concessions, giveaways, and
other costs that are lumped in the sale price.
b.	Find out how many foreclosures/bank owned properties are in your
neighborhood or within ? mile of your home
 This will give you an idea of
what the distressed properties nearby are going for to see what you?re
competing against
c.	Also, see what?s on the market in your neighborhood or within ? mile
of your home and figure out the average asking price per square foot. Again
to see what others are asking for their homes
 This again is also to see
what others are ?hoping? to get for their property
d.	If you are the first owner of the house, multiply your original
purchase price by 3%-5% compounded annually. If you?re not the first owner,
find out what the first owner paid for the property and run the numbers
accordingly
 For example, if you or the first home owner purchased the home
in 1990 for 100K, 3% appreciation over the last 19 years = $175,350, 4% =
$210,685, 5% = $252,695

 

This information should at least give you a range of what your home ?should?
be worth in a normal market
 If the number you?re expecting is much higher
than what the data indicates, then you need to get realistic or plan on
staying in the home until the tide shifts
 in this case is at least 10 yea
rs.

 

-Naji

 

  _____  

From: 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=
<mailto:cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [
<mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com?>
mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5day
s.com] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 3:53 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Pricing?

 

OK,

Here we go again.

RC Cutcher is a real estate professional in the market every day.  He
actually knows what homes are selling for in his area, and is constantly
buying and selling homes for his own account.

RC Cutcher is NOT a private home seller.

Private home owners know what they paid for their homes, a short while or a
long while ago, and little else.

Brokers don't have a clue, -- they told you your home was worth what you
paid when you bought it.  Now they are telling you they can't sell it for
that amount, but if you list with them, maybe they can find you a buyer
sometime in the future for some amount they have imagined out of thin air.

Here's what I'm saying:

Take the number you think your home is currently worth -- based on any
factors you choose to use -- and TEST THAT NUMBER BEFORE WASTING ANY MORE
TIME OR MONEY!

You test by offering your home for just 3 days in the best media you can
think of in your region.

If you get 25 responses by Friday night you can know that your home is worth
substantially more than the advertised price at the current time.  It could
be worth twice as much as the advertised price.  It co uld be worth a little
less.  It could be worth a little more.  But you can be certain that the
advertised price was EXTREMELY ATTRACTIVE to a large number of people
looking to buy homes at the present time.

That's what you know.  Nothing more.  Nothing less.

Now, if you start fudging around with your starting price, or the number of
responses you get...you don't know anything for sure...and in my humble
opinion you are looking for failure if you proceed with a 5-Day Sale without
really knowing if your starting price is wildly below the price you can
expect to get.

When RC runs 5-Day Sales he has many additional properties for sale.  If he
ropes them in on one price and sells a different home for a different price,
of course many participants accuse him of a bait and switch, because that's
exactly what he has done.

But that is not what private home sellers are doing, at all.  

When private home sellers sell their homes using the 5-Day Method properly
(start at an honest 50% -- take the high bid) nobody is mad at them.  People
who don't have the money are grateful for being treated like everyone else,
and being allowed to inspect a fine home slightly beyond their means.  They
only get mad if you treat them differently from anybody else, or insult
their ability to ever own your home.

People who have the means to afford the house know they have paid a fair
price at the current time.

The formulas=2 0presented in the book have been developed over 20 years of
trial and error.  They work in good times.   They work in bad times.  They
work more often for more people than any other formulas I've been asked to
consider.

Don't re-invent this wheel.  Don't listen to the advice of people whose
circumstances are significantly different from your own.

Bill Effros
Author





RC Cutcher wrote: 

2nd try

 

Sean writes:

One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did is that the people that 
would come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not able 
to afford what we wanted to sell it for (which was $350-$400K)

RC writes:

 

There are a least of couple of us on the Forum that will agree with you
about pricing a property at 50%.  How ever unlogical it appears, failure is
often assigned because a Seller didn't follow the letter of the law (or
book) on that point. 

I use a more emotional response to the price by assigning these tags:

Ridiculous
Tiny
Small
Medium
Large

I find that if a potential buyer doesn't believe he/she has a chance at
getting the property somewhere between Tiny and Small, they feel deceived
and damaged.  And then  they believe that the property must be stigmatized
by some unknown defect or building flaw. 

So I think you are on the right track, Sean.  Stay away from ridiculous
(50%) pricing, and do the hard work to figure out how to get the property
into the 'tiny' range. 

RC Cutcher
Realtor, ABR
Austin Texas Homes, LLC
 <http://www.austintexashomes.com/> www.austintexashomes.com
512-848-4449

The Short Sale/Foreclosure Workshop
Trec Provider No. 0623
Course No. 7436

Broker Price Opinion Training
Every Friday

 
 
 





  _____  



 
 
 
_______________________________________________

5-DayForum mailing list

 <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
 
<http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
  
_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
 <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
 
<http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

 

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<http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000035> Get
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From glendav24 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 15 05:15:51 2009
From: glendav24 at yahoo.com (V Glenda)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 02:15:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [5-DayForum] 5 Day Sale in Manhattan
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6.1237046411.32407.5-dayforum@mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
References: <mailman.6.1237046411.32407.5-dayforum@mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Message-ID: <606289.81098.qm@web112206.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Thank you all for the feedback regarding the length of advertising...I am moving on to the next topic regarding the sale.  I am specifically unclear how and when in the process do I introduce the Coop Board packet that a buyer will have to complete?  Bill, when you sold the coop properties in Manhattan how did you do it? 

Thanks,
Glenda






________________________________
From: "5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com" <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:00:11 PM
Subject: 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 19

Send 5-DayForum mailing list submissions to
    5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of 5-DayForum digest..."
Today's Topics:

   1. Re: 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 18 (Gary St. Armand)
   2.  Pricing? (Sean Folkson)
   3. Re: 5 Day Sale in Manhattan (kelsey uh)
   4. Re: 5 Day Sale in Manhattan (Kyle Cascioli)
   5. Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan (Bill Effros)
   6.   Pricing? (RC Cutcher)
   7.    Pricing? (RC Cutcher)


-----Inline Message Follows-----


Bill,
 
Have you ever written an article on using your method to rent an apartment.
I want my property manager to do the same thing, because I have 5 vacancies
in a 12-unit bldg. I don't know if she'd actually take time to read your book to follow the directions even though it's fairly straight forward.


-Gary
I--- On Fri, 3/13/09, 5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com> wrote:


From: 5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Subject: 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 18
To: 5-dayforum at mailman..howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Date: Friday, March 13, 2009, 4:00 PM


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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: 5 Day Sale in Manhattan (Bill Effros)

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-----Inline Message Follows-----

In this case, the starting number shouldn't matter too much Lance.

One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did is that the people that would come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not able to afford what we wanted to sell it for (which was $350-$400K)

We had buyers that loved the house, but were only approved up into the $320K range.  We had great response to the ad...over 100 people came over the 2 days, and bids got up to $326,500.  All the buyers told me they were really looking for something cheaper, but they fell in love with our place and went higher than they even wanted to.

We chose not to sell, listed with a realtor, and ultimately got $358K for the house, 2-3 months later.  That sale was this past july.  When I do my next one in a month or two, I will be "tweaking the system", I'm sure much to Bill's dismay.  I can afford to do that, because on this property I'll be selling, I don't really care if it sells or not.  If it doesn't sell, my wife and I will move into it.

What I'll be doing is listing it for the lowest price we'd accept.  This will help ensure that any potential buyers who visit can afford to pay what we want for the house.  in this day and age of internet search and filters, listing at 50% of what you want might prevent you from having the right buyers find your property.  If you were looking for a house, you're looking in a price range.  If you enter a price range of $150-$200K, you can't afford to pay the $350-$400K the 5 day seller wants.  And, if you're a consumer looking to spend $350-$400K for a house, you'll likely never even see the ad for the house listed at $174,500.  And, if you do, you'll likely assume it's a dump and not something worth looking at.

sean




-----Inline Message Follows-----

O.K.. Thank you

On 3/12/09, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> Kelsey,
>
> You can't get legal advice here -- we're not lawyers.
>
> 5-Day Sales work best when the owner runs them. Other people can do it,
> but if you have been following this Forum of late you read the anger of
> many people toward real estate professionals who are widely blamed for
> profiting from the bubble that preceded this bust.
>
> You can do all the work for Glenda, but she will get a higher price if
> she does it herself.
>
> Bill Effros
> Author
>
>
>
> kelsey uh wrote:
>>
>> I have been helping Glenda with marketing. I am her friend.
>>
>> I have a real estate agent license. If Glenda goes on business trip on
>> the inspection days, can I do the auction and round robin for her? Is
>> it legal in NY state?
>>
>> Your response will be highly appreciated, as I have no time to check
>> with county clerks and lawyers.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Kelsey
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> 5-DayForum mailing list
>> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>
>



-----Inline Message Follows-----

Agreed!
 
That's how we do it with with our seller and builder platforms and it works well.
 
Many buyers today want direct contact with sellers and builders.
 
Best to all, 
 
Kyle Cascioli
www.AuctionBySeller.com 
www.AuctionByBuilder.com 
 
> Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:27:36 -0400
> From: kelseyuh at gmail.com
> To: 5-dayforum at mailman..howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] 5 Day Sale in Manhattan
> 
> O.K. Thank you
> 
> On 3/12/09, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> > Kelsey,
> >
> > You can't get legal advice here -- we're not lawyers.
> >
> > 5-Day Sales work best when the owner runs them. Other people can do it,
> > but if you have been following this Forum of late you read the anger of
> > many people toward real estate professionals who are widely blamed for
> > profiting from the bubble that preceded this bust.
> >
> > You can do all the work for Glenda, but she will get a higher price if
> > she does it herself.
> >
> > Bill Effros
> > Author
> >
> >
> >
> > kelsey uh wrote:
> >>
> >> I have been helping Glenda with marketing. I am her friend.
> >>
> >> I have a real estate agent license. If Glenda goes on business trip on
> >> the inspection days, can I do the auction and round robin for her? Is
> >> it legal in NY state?
> >>
> >> Your response will be highly appreciated, as I have no time to check
> >> with county clerks and lawyers.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Kelsey
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> 5-DayForum mailing list
> >> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> >> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> >>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

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Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan


March 14, 2009
Your Money
By RON LIEBER (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/l/ron_lieber/index.html?inline=nyt-per)

If you?re among the millions of people who will not qualify for the Obama administration?s program to help troubled homeowners, you?re probably wondering what you?re supposed to do now.

Perhaps you no longer have enough income to pay your loans (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier). Or you can afford the payments but don?t qualify for refinancing under the new plan because the value of your home is too far below the balance of the loan. If you?re far enough underwater, you?re probably questioning the wisdom of writing a monthly check on a place that may take 10 or 15 years to get back to the value it had two or three years ago. It isn?t easy to come up with the answer, and if you have moral misgivings about not making good on your mortgage (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/mortgages/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier), a religious officiant may offer as much useful guidance as a financial planner (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/planning/financial-planners/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier).

In an economic environment like this one, however, the consequences of giving up on your mortgage may not be as painful as they were a few years ago. Yes, it?s almost always preferable to negotiate a better deal on your existing mortgage than to walk away. But if you can?t work things out with your lender, you probably won?t be sued. You shouldn?t receive a major tax bill either. And the damage to your credit will not be permanent or insurmountable.

Let?s look at these last three in order.

YOUR LENDER First off, let?s define what we mean by ?giving up? on your current mortgage. It may mean trying for a short sale (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/s/short_selling/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier), where the lender allows you to sell your home for less than the mortgage amount. You may also hand over the deed to the home in exchange for the lender agreeing not to start foreclosure proceedings (a ?deed in lieu? in industry terms). Then, there?s foreclosure itself, and the possibility that bankruptcy judges may soon have the power to adjust the terms of primary mortgages.

That said, just because you?re ineligible under the Obama plan doesn?t mean that your lender or servicer won?t ultimately adjust your mortgage anyhow. Collectively, there are enough people in trouble or under water on their loans that they have plenty of leverage if they?re willing to play chicken with their lender and threaten to stop paying.

The problem is, the lender can play chicken, too, by threatening to come after you for the balance of any money you owe ? whether it?s the difference between what you sell the property for yourself and the remaining mortgage, or the loan amount left over after the lender sells your property in foreclosure.

The lender may not follow through, though. ?What our membership is telling us is that it can be cost-prohibitive to chase down a borrower who is already in financial distress,? said John Mechem, a spokesman for the Mortgage Bankers Association. ?You can?t squeeze blood from a stone.? They may, however, still come after people with high incomes who walk away from jumbo loans that are way under water or loans on investment (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/investments/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) properties.

Some states have laws that may specifically prohibit lenders from pursuing borrowers for the balance of many mortgage loans after foreclosure, though the particulars vary. Arizona and California are among these states, according to Steven Bender, a professor at the University of Oregon (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/u/university_of_oregon/index.html?inline=nyt-org) School of Law. It?s best to talk to a lawyer to determine your state?s rules.

In fact, if you want to be sure your lender (or a collection agency that it may sell your loan to) won?t chase you down, it?s a good idea to have a lawyer involved with any short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure itself. ?You must get the bank to agree in writing that any deficiency is waived,? said Chip Parker, a lawyer specializing in foreclosure with Parker & DuFresne in Jacksonville, Fla.

The biggest challenge here may simply be finding someone at the bank to help. Having a second mortgage will also complicate matters.

YOUR TAXES You also need to consider the taxman. Often, forgiven debts are taxable as income. Recent legislative changes, however, eliminate the federal tax burden through 2012 on most primary residence debt that a lender has reduced through loan restructuring or forgiven during foreclosure.

Mark Luscombe, principal analyst for CCH, a tax information service, said that people who sell their home through a short sale or give up the deed in lieu of foreclosure can also qualify for tax relief if they use a special tax form, 1099-C, that reflects the amount of debt that the lender has forgiven.

People who live in states with their own income taxes may avoid a big bill as well. Some states, like Arizona and California, have introduced or passed legislation that echoes the federal laws, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. Many others tend to mimic most or all federal income tax laws as a general rule, according to CCH. Check with an accountant in your state to be sure.

YOUR CREDIT A short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure itself will almost certainly damage your credit report and score, and the black mark will last for up to seven years. But the amount of damage it does will depend on how much other credit trouble you?ve gotten yourself into with other lenders.

If you?re giving up the home you own, you?ll probably need to rent soon afterward. Will landlords turn you away once they check your credit and discover your troubled mortgage? ?If it?s the only thing marring their credit, it?s probably not a big issue,? said Clay Powell, the director of the Rental Property Owners Association of Michigan, who added that good tenants could be scarce in economic environments like this one.

In fact, Todd J.. Zywicki, a law professor at George Mason University, predicted that FICO may have to adjust its credit scores (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-scores/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) to lessen the impact of a foreclosure or similar incident. ?It just seems obvious that a foreclosure in 2008 or 2009 doesn?t have as much information value as a foreclosure five years ago,? he said. ?To the extent that foreclosure doesn?t predict future behavior as much as it did in the past, you?d expect that the FICO algorithm would change to adjust for that.?

Craig Watts, a spokesman for FICO, said that was an interesting idea. ?We try not to get involved too much in psychobabble around what is and isn?t predictive,? he said.. ?If the numbers show that foreclosure is less predictive, then we?ll take it into account in future redevelopments of the formula.? That would take a minimum of two to three years, though.

Some lenders aren?t waiting that long to initiate their own foreclosure destigmatization programs. The Golden 1, one of the nation?s largest credit unions, now has a mortgage repair loan for people who have lost a home to foreclosure but want to buy a new one.

It?s hard to imagine that there won?t be a parade of insurance (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/insurance/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) companies, credit card (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-and-debit-cards/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) issuers and mortgage lenders in Golden 1?s wake, even though Fannie Mae (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/fannie_mae/index.html?inline=nyt-org) and Freddie Mac (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/freddie_mac/index.html?inline=nyt-org) may be unwilling to guarantee the mortgages of such borrowers for several years. In fact, Aaron Bresko, the vice president of lending for BECU, another large credit union based in Washington State, is putting together a panel called ?How to Lend to the Newly Credit Impaired? for a conference later this year.

?Good people have bad things happen to them, so how do you find those people and reach out to them?? he said. ?As the year progresses, it?s going to be an emerging market.?

How are you handling your mortgage problems?
Write to rlieber at nytimes.com.




-----Inline Message Follows-----


Shean writes:
 
One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did is that the 
people that 
would come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not 
able 
to afford what we wanted to sell it for (which was 
$350-$400K)
 
There are a least of couple of us on the 
Forum that will agree with you about pricing a property at 50%.  However 
unlogical it appears, failure is often assigned because a Seller didn't follow 
the letter of the law (or book) on that point. 
 
I use a more emotional response to the price 
by assigning these tags:
 
Ridiculous
Tiny
Small
Medium
Large
 
I find that if a potential buyer doesn't 
believe he/she has a chance at getting the property somewhere between Tiny and 
Small, they feel deceived and damaged.  And then  they believe 
that the property must be stigmatized by some unknown defect or building flaw. 
 
So I think you are on the right track, 
Shean.  Stay away from ridiculous (50%) pricing, and do the hard work 
to figure out how to get the property into the 'tiny' range. 
 
RC Cutcher
Realtor, ABR
Austin Texas Homes, LLC
www.austintexashomes.com
512-848-4449
 
The Short Sale/Foreclosure 
Workshop
Trec Provider No. 0623
Course No. 7436
 
Broker Price Opinion 
Training
Every Friday
 

-----Inline Message Follows-----


2nd try
 
Sean writes:

One concern I found with the 5-Day 
sale I did is that the people that 
would come view a house that we 
advertised at $174,500 were not able 
to afford what we wanted to sell it for 
(which was $350-$400K)

RC writes:
 
There are a least of couple of us on the Forum that will 
agree with you about pricing a property at 50%.  However unlogical it 
appears, failure is often assigned because a Seller didn't follow the letter of 
the law (or book) on that point. 

I use a more emotional response to the 
price by assigning these 
tags:

Ridiculous
Tiny
Small
Medium
Large

I find that 
if a potential buyer doesn't believe he/she has a chance at getting the property 
somewhere between Tiny and Small, they feel deceived and damaged.  And 
then  they believe that the property must be stigmatized by some unknown 
defect or building flaw. 

So I think you are on the right track, 
Sean.  Stay away from ridiculous (50%) pricing, and do the hard work to 
figure out how to get the property into the 'tiny' range. 

RC 
Cutcher
Realtor, ABR
Austin Texas Homes, 
LLC
www.austintexashomes.com
512-848-4449

The Short 
Sale/Foreclosure Workshop
Trec Provider No. 0623
Course No. 
7436

Broker Price Opinion Training
Every 
Friday
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From glendav24 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 15 08:44:54 2009
From: glendav24 at yahoo.com (V Glenda)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 05:44:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [5-DayForum] Pricing
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6.1237046411.32407.5-dayforum@mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
References: <mailman.6.1237046411.32407.5-dayforum@mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Message-ID: <118055.46956.qm@web112211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hi!  All-
Maybe I am just getting the cold feet...our 5 day sale is scheduled for this coming weekend and I just read Sean's comment about pricing....I am also concerned that those who will show up at our open house cannot really afford the price we want and worst of all will not qualify to get through the coop board for the same reasons Sean mentioned.  

In the event that we don't get the price we want and end up not selling, I am wondering how Sean told the highest bidder of his decision not to sell and how did the buyer take it?  

Thanks,
Glenda



________________________________
From: "5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com" <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:00:11 PM
Subject: 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 19

Send 5-DayForum mailing list submissions to
    5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
    http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
    5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com

You can reach the person managing the list at
    5-dayforum-owner at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of 5-DayForum digest..."
Today's Topics:

   1. Re: 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 18 (Gary St. Armand)
   2.  Pricing? (Sean Folkson)
   3. Re: 5 Day Sale in Manhattan (kelsey uh)
   4. Re: 5 Day Sale in Manhattan (Kyle Cascioli)
   5. Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan (Bill Effros)
   6.   Pricing? (RC Cutcher)
   7.    Pricing? (RC Cutcher)


-----Inline Message Follows-----


Bill,
 
Have you ever written an article on using your method to rent an apartment.
I want my property manager to do the same thing, because I have 5 vacancies
in a 12-unit bldg. I don't know if she'd actually take time to read your book to follow the directions even though it's fairly straight forward.


-Gary
I--- On Fri, 3/13/09, 5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com> wrote:


From: 5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Subject: 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 18
To: 5-dayforum at mailman..howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Date: Friday, March 13, 2009, 4:00 PM


Send 5-DayForum mailing list submissions to
    5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
    http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
    5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com

You can reach the person managing the list at
    5-dayforum-owner at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of 5-DayForum digest..."

Today's Topics:

   1. Re: 5 Day Sale in Manhattan (Bill Effros)

_______________________________________________
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-----Inline Message Follows-----

In this case, the starting number shouldn't matter too much Lance.

One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did is that the people that would come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not able to afford what we wanted to sell it for (which was $350-$400K)

We had buyers that loved the house, but were only approved up into the $320K range.  We had great response to the ad...over 100 people came over the 2 days, and bids got up to $326,500.  All the buyers told me they were really looking for something cheaper, but they fell in love with our place and went higher than they even wanted to.

We chose not to sell, listed with a realtor, and ultimately got $358K for the house, 2-3 months later.  That sale was this past july.  When I do my next one in a month or two, I will be "tweaking the system", I'm sure much to Bill's dismay.  I can afford to do that, because on this property I'll be selling, I don't really care if it sells or not.  If it doesn't sell, my wife and I will move into it.

What I'll be doing is listing it for the lowest price we'd accept.  This will help ensure that any potential buyers who visit can afford to pay what we want for the house.  in this day and age of internet search and filters, listing at 50% of what you want might prevent you from having the right buyers find your property.  If you were looking for a house, you're looking in a price range.  If you enter a price range of $150-$200K, you can't afford to pay the $350-$400K the 5 day seller wants.  And, if you're a consumer looking to spend $350-$400K for a house, you'll likely never even see the ad for the house listed at $174,500.  And, if you do, you'll likely assume it's a dump and not something worth looking at.

sean




-----Inline Message Follows-----

O.K. Thank you

On 3/12/09, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> Kelsey,
>
> You can't get legal advice here -- we're not lawyers.
>
> 5-Day Sales work best when the owner runs them. Other people can do it,
> but if you have been following this Forum of late you read the anger of
> many people toward real estate professionals who are widely blamed for
> profiting from the bubble that preceded this bust.
>
> You can do all the work for Glenda, but she will get a higher price if
> she does it herself.
>
> Bill Effros
> Author
>
>
>
> kelsey uh wrote:
>>
>> I have been helping Glenda with marketing. I am her friend.
>>
>> I have a real estate agent license. If Glenda goes on business trip on
>> the inspection days, can I do the auction and round robin for her? Is
>> it legal in NY state?
>>
>> Your response will be highly appreciated, as I have no time to check
>> with county clerks and lawyers.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Kelsey
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> 5-DayForum mailing list
>> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>
>



-----Inline Message Follows-----

Agreed!
 
That's how we do it with with our seller and builder platforms and it works well.
 
Many buyers today want direct contact with sellers and builders.
 
Best to all, 
 
Kyle Cascioli
www.AuctionBySeller..com 
www.AuctionByBuilder.com 
 
> Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:27:36 -0400
> From: kelseyuh at gmail.com
> To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] 5 Day Sale in Manhattan
> 
> O.K. Thank you
> 
> On 3/12/09, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> > Kelsey,
> >
> > You can't get legal advice here -- we're not lawyers.
> >
> > 5-Day Sales work best when the owner runs them. Other people can do it,
> > but if you have been following this Forum of late you read the anger of
> > many people toward real estate professionals who are widely blamed for
> > profiting from the bubble that preceded this bust.
> >
> > You can do all the work for Glenda, but she will get a higher price if
> > she does it herself.
> >
> > Bill Effros
> > Author
> >
> >
> >
> > kelsey uh wrote:
> >>
> >> I have been helping Glenda with marketing. I am her friend.
> >>
> >> I have a real estate agent license. If Glenda goes on business trip on
> >> the inspection days, can I do the auction and round robin for her? Is
> >> it legal in NY state?
> >>
> >> Your response will be highly appreciated, as I have no time to check
> >> with county clerks and lawyers.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Kelsey
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> 5-DayForum mailing list
> >> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> >> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> >>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

________________________________
Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail?. See how. 

-----Inline Message Follows-----

Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan


March 14, 2009
Your Money
By RON LIEBER (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/l/ron_lieber/index.html?inline=nyt-per)

If you?re among the millions of people who will not qualify for the Obama administration?s program to help troubled homeowners, you?re probably wondering what you?re supposed to do now.

Perhaps you no longer have enough income to pay your loans (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier). Or you can afford the payments but don?t qualify for refinancing under the new plan because the value of your home is too far below the balance of the loan. If you?re far enough underwater, you?re probably questioning the wisdom of writing a monthly check on a place that may take 10 or 15 years to get back to the value it had two or three years ago. It isn?t easy to come up with the answer, and if you have moral misgivings about not making good on your mortgage (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/mortgages/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier), a religious officiant may offer as much useful guidance as a financial planner (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/planning/financial-planners/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier).

In an economic environment like this one, however, the consequences of giving up on your mortgage may not be as painful as they were a few years ago. Yes, it?s almost always preferable to negotiate a better deal on your existing mortgage than to walk away. But if you can?t work things out with your lender, you probably won?t be sued. You shouldn?t receive a major tax bill either. And the damage to your credit will not be permanent or insurmountable.

Let?s look at these last three in order.

YOUR LENDER First off, let?s define what we mean by ?giving up? on your current mortgage. It may mean trying for a short sale (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/s/short_selling/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier), where the lender allows you to sell your home for less than the mortgage amount. You may also hand over the deed to the home in exchange for the lender agreeing not to start foreclosure proceedings (a ?deed in lieu? in industry terms). Then, there?s foreclosure itself, and the possibility that bankruptcy judges may soon have the power to adjust the terms of primary mortgages.

That said, just because you?re ineligible under the Obama plan doesn?t mean that your lender or servicer won?t ultimately adjust your mortgage anyhow. Collectively, there are enough people in trouble or under water on their loans that they have plenty of leverage if they?re willing to play chicken with their lender and threaten to stop paying.

The problem is, the lender can play chicken, too, by threatening to come after you for the balance of any money you owe ? whether it?s the difference between what you sell the property for yourself and the remaining mortgage, or the loan amount left over after the lender sells your property in foreclosure.

The lender may not follow through, though. ?What our membership is telling us is that it can be cost-prohibitive to chase down a borrower who is already in financial distress,? said John Mechem, a spokesman for the Mortgage Bankers Association. ?You can?t squeeze blood from a stone.? They may, however, still come after people with high incomes who walk away from jumbo loans that are way under water or loans on investment (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/investments/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) properties.

Some states have laws that may specifically prohibit lenders from pursuing borrowers for the balance of many mortgage loans after foreclosure, though the particulars vary. Arizona and California are among these states, according to Steven Bender, a professor at the University of Oregon (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/u/university_of_oregon/index.html?inline=nyt-org) School of Law. It?s best to talk to a lawyer to determine your state?s rules.

In fact, if you want to be sure your lender (or a collection agency that it may sell your loan to) won?t chase you down, it?s a good idea to have a lawyer involved with any short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure itself.. ?You must get the bank to agree in writing that any deficiency is waived,? said Chip Parker, a lawyer specializing in foreclosure with Parker & DuFresne in Jacksonville, Fla.

The biggest challenge here may simply be finding someone at the bank to help. Having a second mortgage will also complicate matters.

YOUR TAXES You also need to consider the taxman. Often, forgiven debts are taxable as income. Recent legislative changes, however, eliminate the federal tax burden through 2012 on most primary residence debt that a lender has reduced through loan restructuring or forgiven during foreclosure.

Mark Luscombe, principal analyst for CCH, a tax information service, said that people who sell their home through a short sale or give up the deed in lieu of foreclosure can also qualify for tax relief if they use a special tax form, 1099-C, that reflects the amount of debt that the lender has forgiven.

People who live in states with their own income taxes may avoid a big bill as well. Some states, like Arizona and California, have introduced or passed legislation that echoes the federal laws, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. Many others tend to mimic most or all federal income tax laws as a general rule, according to CCH. Check with an accountant in your state to be sure.

YOUR CREDIT A short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure itself will almost certainly damage your credit report and score, and the black mark will last for up to seven years. But the amount of damage it does will depend on how much other credit trouble you?ve gotten yourself into with other lenders.

If you?re giving up the home you own, you?ll probably need to rent soon afterward. Will landlords turn you away once they check your credit and discover your troubled mortgage? ?If it?s the only thing marring their credit, it?s probably not a big issue,? said Clay Powell, the director of the Rental Property Owners Association of Michigan, who added that good tenants could be scarce in economic environments like this one.

In fact, Todd J. Zywicki, a law professor at George Mason University, predicted that FICO may have to adjust its credit scores (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-scores/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) to lessen the impact of a foreclosure or similar incident. ?It just seems obvious that a foreclosure in 2008 or 2009 doesn?t have as much information value as a foreclosure five years ago,? he said. ?To the extent that foreclosure doesn?t predict future behavior as much as it did in the past, you?d expect that the FICO algorithm would change to adjust for that..?

Craig Watts, a spokesman for FICO, said that was an interesting idea. ?We try not to get involved too much in psychobabble around what is and isn?t predictive,? he said. ?If the numbers show that foreclosure is less predictive, then we?ll take it into account in future redevelopments of the formula.? That would take a minimum of two to three years, though.

Some lenders aren?t waiting that long to initiate their own foreclosure destigmatization programs. The Golden 1, one of the nation?s largest credit unions, now has a mortgage repair loan for people who have lost a home to foreclosure but want to buy a new one.

It?s hard to imagine that there won?t be a parade of insurance (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/insurance/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) companies, credit card (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-and-debit-cards/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) issuers and mortgage lenders in Golden 1?s wake, even though Fannie Mae (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/fannie_mae/index.html?inline=nyt-org) and Freddie Mac (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/freddie_mac/index.html?inline=nyt-org) may be unwilling to guarantee the mortgages of such borrowers for several years. In fact, Aaron Bresko, the vice president of lending for BECU, another large credit union based in Washington State, is putting together a panel called ?How to Lend to the Newly Credit Impaired? for a conference later this year.

?Good people have bad things happen to them, so how do you find those people and reach out to them?? he said. ?As the year progresses, it?s going to be an emerging market.?

How are you handling your mortgage problems?
Write to rlieber at nytimes.com.




-----Inline Message Follows-----


Shean writes:
 
One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did is that the 
people that 
would come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not 
able 
to afford what we wanted to sell it for (which was 
$350-$400K)
 
There are a least of couple of us on the 
Forum that will agree with you about pricing a property at 50%.  However 
unlogical it appears, failure is often assigned because a Seller didn't follow 
the letter of the law (or book) on that point. 
 
I use a more emotional response to the price 
by assigning these tags:
 
Ridiculous
Tiny
Small
Medium
Large
 
I find that if a potential buyer doesn't 
believe he/she has a chance at getting the property somewhere between Tiny and 
Small, they feel deceived and damaged.  And then  they believe 
that the property must be stigmatized by some unknown defect or building flaw. 
 
So I think you are on the right track, 
Shean.  Stay away from ridiculous (50%) pricing, and do the hard work 
to figure out how to get the property into the 'tiny' range. 
 
RC Cutcher
Realtor, ABR
Austin Texas Homes, LLC
www.austintexashomes.com
512-848-4449
 
The Short Sale/Foreclosure 
Workshop
Trec Provider No. 0623
Course No. 7436
 
Broker Price Opinion 
Training
Every Friday
 

-----Inline Message Follows-----


2nd try
 
Sean writes:

One concern I found with the 5-Day 
sale I did is that the people that 
would come view a house that we 
advertised at $174,500 were not able 
to afford what we wanted to sell it for 
(which was $350-$400K)

RC writes:
 
There are a least of couple of us on the Forum that will 
agree with you about pricing a property at 50%.  However unlogical it 
appears, failure is often assigned because a Seller didn't follow the letter of 
the law (or book) on that point. 

I use a more emotional response to the 
price by assigning these 
tags:

Ridiculous
Tiny
Small
Medium
Large

I find that 
if a potential buyer doesn't believe he/she has a chance at getting the property 
somewhere between Tiny and Small, they feel deceived and damaged.  And 
then  they believe that the property must be stigmatized by some unknown 
defect or building flaw. 

So I think you are on the right track, 
Sean.  Stay away from ridiculous (50%) pricing, and do the hard work to 
figure out how to get the property into the 'tiny' range. 

RC 
Cutcher
Realtor, ABR
Austin Texas Homes, 
LLC
www.austintexashomes.com
512-848-4449

The Short 
Sale/Foreclosure Workshop
Trec Provider No. 0623
Course No. 
7436

Broker Price Opinion Training
Every 
Friday
 _______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum



      
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From bill at effros.com  Sun Mar 15 09:08:30 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 09:08:30 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Pricing?
In-Reply-To: <000901c9a500$4dbdfed0$0201a8c0@RCCutcher>
References: <000901c9a500$4dbdfed0$0201a8c0@RCCutcher>
Message-ID: <49BCFDCE.9030401@effros.com>

RC,

Sorry if I misrepresented your situation.

Many private sellers fear that if they start at a low number and sell at 
a higher number they are baiting and switching.  I was only trying to 
illustrate that your situation and pricing decisions are not the same as 
those of a one time seller, and that you have a much firmer basis for 
selecting a starting point.

Originally I did not advocate either a 50% starting point, or a firm 25 
responses by Friday night minimum, however it soon became obvious that 
private sellers had no ability to determine the true current value of 
their homes, or the fact that they could not possibly sell their homes 
for anywhere near the price they hoped to get--no matter what method 
they used.

50% is a clearly ridiculous number -- and it is intended to be a clearly 
ridiculous number.  It is so ridiculous it will ALWAYS pull 25 responses 
by Friday night if it is offered in the right places.

Yet, look at the number of people on this Forum who fail to get 25 
responses by Friday night!  What did they do wrong?  You know, and I 
know the answer -- they have no idea of the true current value of their 
homes.  So I tell them to back out of their 5-Day sales before they get 
into a situation that will only make matters worse.

I use 50% because most people can do the math, and it's far enough away 
from true market value that if it turns out to be 40% or 60% it makes no 
difference.

There IS magic in numbers!  This entire housing crisis exists because so 
few people were able to determine current market values -- both 
professionals and private parties.

5-Day Sellers who stick closely to the book know better than anyone in 
their communities the current market value of their homes.  They see 
downturns coming before they happen; they see upturns coming before they 
happen; and they can know the best price currently offered for their 
homes -- in 5 days.

I know it's counter-intuitive, and I know most real estate 
"professionals" will provide reasons why it won't work.  But the fact of 
the matter is that it has been working ever since I first tried it, and 
virtually all professionals have turned out, over time, to be wrong in 
the methods they used to determine current home values.

Bill Effros
Author





RC Cutcher wrote:
> Bill writes:
>  
> When RC runs 5-Day Sales he has many additional properties for sale.  
> If he ropes them in on one price and sells a different home for a 
> different price, of course many participants accuse him of a bait and 
> switch, because that's exactly what he has done.
>  
> RC writes:
>  
> lol. Do you know something about me that I don't know? I can't ever 
> remember anyone accussing me of  'bait and switch.'  Perhaps you are 
> suggesting that lots of Realtors take sign calls and then 
> show unrepresented buyers another property. I refer all buyer calls 
> out to buyer agents who show them all possible available properties. 
> It is illegal to do dual agency in Texas.  Their agents can show my 
> other homes if they choose. 
>  
> The 'price point' choice really doesn't have much do with whether a 
> person is offering on a FSBO or MLS Listing, in my opinion.  I simply 
> disagree with you about setting the bar so low that it  could confuse 
>  potential buyers and eliminate other potential candidates. That 
> appeard to be Sean's point. I suppose someone could come along and 
> take your argument and attempt to provide a reasoned thought to start 
> at 40%. 
>  
> Ain't no magic in numbers, my friend. 
>  
> RC Cutcher
> Austin Texas Homes, LLC
> www.austintexashomes.com <http://www.austintexashomes.com>
> 512-848-4449
> RC_Cutcher at Helloworld.com <mailto:RC_Cutcher at Helloworld.com>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
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From bill at effros.com  Sun Mar 15 09:22:40 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 09:22:40 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Pricing?
In-Reply-To: <1408336225.4064751237076451339.JavaMail.root@sz0064a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
References: <1408336225.4064751237076451339.JavaMail.root@sz0064a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <49BD0120.7060008@effros.com>

Tom,

Thanks for the vote of confidence, but people challenging my ideas make 
the 5-Day Method stronger.

A lot of my ideas have been modified over the years by people tweaking 
the system, and when I started most professionals would not even 
consider the possibility of private parties being successful using the 
5-Day Method, much less try it themselves or talk to others in their 
community about the demonstrated successes of the method.

Hit the delete key when something annoys you, or set up a filter in your 
email system to filter in or out individuals you do or don't want to 
hear from.

More importantly, use this forum to set up your sale properly.  The 
5-Day Method can't change the market -- you've read me saying that over 
and over -- but it can get you the most you can get in this market if 
you follow it closely. 

Bring everyone on this Forum into your thinking, and let us know what 
happens -- a lot of people stand ready to help you with their 
experiences and their ideas.  You are venturing into one of the most 
important financial decisions of your life.  You are strong enough to 
come to your own conclusions, and to live with the outcome.

Feel free to speak up when you've got something to say, and continue to 
do so!

It helps everybody.

Bill Effros
Author



tgarter at comcast.net wrote:
> I go to this forum because it's about Bill's Book "How to Sell you 
> Home in 5 days" I've read the book and it is clearly for homeowners 
> choosing not to use a professional.  I think it's great that those 
> with experience share it, but I'm not on this forum to waste my time 
> reading every post from bickering professionals. I'm kind of tired of 
> it. This forum is about the 5 day sale.  If I do a 5 day sale, I can 
> either follow the book or make up my own rules.  I think it would be 
> great if someone had as much conviction and success as Bill and they 
> write their own book.  I'll stand in the bookstore, read most of it as 
> I did, if it seems like it's any good then I'll buy it. Every part of 
> Bill's book makes sense. I've had a few questions myself, but he has 
> what appears to be a solid logical answer for every aspect. What's the 
> point in arguing whether his book is correct or not ?
> Tom Garter (plan to do a sale in May)
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "RC Cutcher" <rcutcher at austin.rr.com>
> To: "How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days" 
> <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
> Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 7:55:06 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
> Subject: [5-DayForum]  Pricing?
>
> Bill writes:
>  
> When RC runs 5-Day Sales he has many additional properties for sale.  
> If he ropes them in on one price and sells a different home for a 
> different price, of course many participants accuse him of a bait and 
> switch, because that's exactly what he has done.
>  
> RC writes:
>  
> lol. Do you know something about me that I don't know? I can't ever 
> remember anyone accussing me of  'bait and switch.'  Perhaps you are 
> suggesting that lots of Realtors take sign calls and then 
> show unrepresented buyers another property. I refer all buyer calls 
> out to buyer agents who show them all possible available properties. 
> It is illegal to do dual agency in Texas.  Their agents can show my 
> other homes if they choose. 
>  
> The 'price point' choice really doesn't have much do with whether a 
> person is offering on a FSBO or MLS Listing, in my opinion.  I simply 
> disagree with you about setting the bar so low that it  could confuse 
>  potential buyers and eliminate other potential candidates. That 
> appeard to be Sean's point. I suppose someone could come along and 
> take your argument and attempt to provide a reasoned thought to start 
> at 40%. 
>  
> Ain't no magic in numbers, my friend. 
>  
> RC Cutcher
> Austin Texas Homes, LLC
> www.austintexashomes.com <http://www.austintexashomes.com>
> 512-848-4449
> RC_Cutcher at Helloworld.com <mailto:RC_Cutcher at Helloworld.com>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ 5-DayForum mailing 
> list 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum 
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
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From bill at effros.com  Sun Mar 15 09:48:49 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 09:48:49 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Pricing?
In-Reply-To: <8000569D82BA4B39ABF8895F77A2B5E0@NSKHome>
References: <003501c9a4b6$feb99c70$0201a8c0@RCCutcher>	<49BC0B37.9080901@effros.com>
	<8000569D82BA4B39ABF8895F77A2B5E0@NSKHome>
Message-ID: <49BD0741.5050909@effros.com>

Naji,

Thanks for spending the time to provide so much detail to the list.  
It's extremely helpful to have a concrete starting point.

Where are you?

Your suggested formulas may work for your region, but they are not right 
for other places. 

Still, they suggest a methodology for coming up with a starting price.

The whole point of the 5-Day Method is that it is possible for anyone to 
know in 5 days what their home is worth, and to sell it for current 
market value.

First, somehow, you must come up with some idea of how much your home is 
currently worth.

Then, if you follow my book, you offer your home for 1/2 that amount.

If you get 25 responses by Friday night, you can be sure your home is 
worth much more than the starting price.  If you don't get 25 responses 
by Friday night, you don't know anything...except that you should call 
off your sale until you understand your local market better.

Where I live, homes are still worth pretty much what they were purchased 
for up to 2 years ago.  There are no nearby foreclosures.  Square 
footage is more important with regard to zoning permitted than current 
home size. etc.

But, at least you have provided a way for people to think that makes 
some sense.  They MUST come up with some starting price -- some number 
they think is possible at this time.

If they offer their home at 50% of what they believe their home is 
currently worth, and fail to get 25 responses by Friday night, they can 
be pretty sure their valuation is too high, and they MUST go back to the 
drawing board to figure out current market value and deal with it.  They 
should NOT say "19 is close enough, let's just tough it out..."

How they do this is up to them, but you have provided some valuable 
mechanisms for coming up with a ballpark number that people must 
establish before they can proceed with the 5-Day Method.

Any other formula or way of coming up with a number would also be 
helpful if anyone else has more ideas.

Bill Effros
Author



Naji wrote:
>
> Factors to use when pricing your home:
>
>  
>
>    1. If you purchased your home during the bubble (last 5 - 7 Years),
>       you're SOL... The home is not worth anything close to what you
>       think its worth. Expect to do a short sale or walk away from it.
>    2. If you've owned your home for a while:
>          1. Get the last 3-5 sales in your neighborhood or within ?
>             mile of your home for the last 3 months. Figure out the
>             Price Per Square foot and apply to your home... This is
>             just to give you an idea/starting point... Sale prices are
>             not accurate in many cases due to seller concessions,
>             giveaways, and other costs that are lumped in the sale price.
>          2. Find out how many foreclosures/bank owned properties are
>             in your neighborhood or within ? mile of your home... This
>             will give you an idea of what the distressed properties
>             nearby are going for to see what you're competing against
>          3. Also, see what's on the market in your neighborhood or
>             within ? mile of your home and figure out the average
>             asking price per square foot. Again to see what others are
>             asking for their homes... This again is also to see what
>             others are "hoping" to get for their property
>          4. If you are the first owner of the house, multiply your
>             original purchase price by 3%-5% compounded annually. If
>             you're not the first owner, find out what the first owner
>             paid for the property and run the numbers accordingly...
>             For example, if you or the first home owner purchased the
>             home in 1990 for 100K, 3% appreciation over the last 19
>             years = $175,350, 4% = $210,685, 5% = $252,695
>
>  
>
> This information should at least give you a range of what your home 
> "should" be worth in a normal market... If the number you're expecting 
> is much higher than what the data indicates, then you need to get 
> realistic or plan on staying in the home until the tide shifts... in 
> this case is at least 10 years.
>
>  
>
> -Naji
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* 
> 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] 
> *On Behalf Of *Bill Effros
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 14, 2009 3:53 PM
> *To:* How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Pricing?
>
>  
>
> OK,
>
> Here we go again.
>
> RC Cutcher is a real estate professional in the market every day.  He 
> actually knows what homes are selling for in his area, and is 
> constantly buying and selling homes for his own account.
>
> RC Cutcher is NOT a private home seller.
>
> Private home owners know what they paid for their homes, a short while 
> or a long while ago, and little else.
>
> Brokers don't have a clue, -- they told you your home was worth what 
> you paid when you bought it.  Now they are telling you they can't sell 
> it for that amount, but if you list with them, maybe they can find you 
> a buyer sometime in the future for some amount they have imagined out 
> of thin air.
>
> Here's what I'm saying:
>
> Take the number you think your home is currently worth -- based on any 
> factors you choose to use -- and TEST THAT NUMBER BEFORE WASTING ANY 
> MORE TIME OR MONEY!
>
> You test by offering your home for just 3 days in the best media you 
> can think of in your region.
>
> If you get 25 responses by Friday night you can know that your home is 
> worth substantially more than the advertised price at the current 
> time.  It could be worth twice as much as the advertised price.  It 
> could be worth a little less.  It could be worth a little more.  But 
> you can be certain that the advertised price was EXTREMELY ATTRACTIVE 
> to a large number of people looking to buy homes at the present time.
>
> That's what you know.  Nothing more.  Nothing less.
>
> Now, if you start fudging around with your starting price, or the 
> number of responses you get...you don't know anything for sure...and 
> in my humble opinion you are looking for failure if you proceed with a 
> 5-Day Sale without really knowing if your starting price is wildly 
> below the price you can expect to get.
>
> When RC runs 5-Day Sales he has many additional properties for sale.  
> If he ropes them in on one price and sells a different home for a 
> different price, of course many participants accuse him of a bait and 
> switch, because that's exactly what he has done.
>
> But that is not what private home sellers are doing, at all. 
>
> When private home sellers sell their homes using the 5-Day Method 
> properly (start at an honest 50% -- take the high bid) nobody is mad 
> at them.  People who don't have the money are grateful for being 
> treated like everyone else, and being allowed to inspect a fine home 
> slightly beyond their means.  They only get mad if you treat them 
> differently from anybody else, or insult their ability to ever own 
> your home.
>
> People who have the means to afford the house know they have paid a 
> fair price at the current time.
>
> The formulas presented in the book have been developed over 20 years 
> of trial and error.  They work in good times.   They work in bad 
> times.  They work more often for more people than any other formulas 
> I've been asked to consider.
>
> Don't re-invent this wheel.  Don't listen to the advice of people 
> whose circumstances are significantly different from your own.
>
> Bill Effros
> Author
>
>
>
>
>
> RC Cutcher wrote:
>
> 2nd try
>
>  
>
> Sean writes:
>
> One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did is that the people that
> would come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not able
> to afford what we wanted to sell it for (which was $350-$400K)
>
> RC writes:
>
>  
>
> There are a least of couple of us on the Forum that will agree with 
> you about pricing a property at 50%.  However unlogical it appears, 
> failure is often assigned because a Seller didn't follow the letter of 
> the law (or book) on that point.
>
> I use a more emotional response to the price by assigning these tags:
>
> Ridiculous
> Tiny
> Small
> Medium
> Large
>
> I find that if a potential buyer doesn't believe he/she has a chance 
> at getting the property somewhere between Tiny and Small, they feel 
> deceived and damaged.  And then  they believe that the property must 
> be stigmatized by some unknown defect or building flaw.
>
> So I think you are on the right track, Sean.  Stay away from 
> ridiculous (50%) pricing, and do the hard work to figure out how to 
> get the property into the 'tiny' range.
>
> RC Cutcher
> Realtor, ABR
> Austin Texas Homes, LLC
> www.austintexashomes.com <http://www.austintexashomes.com>
> 512-848-4449
>
> The Short Sale/Foreclosure Workshop
> Trec Provider No. 0623
> Course No. 7436
>
> Broker Price Opinion Training
> Every Friday
>
>  
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>  
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From kyle.vandegriff at gmail.com  Sat Mar 14 23:47:57 2009
From: kyle.vandegriff at gmail.com (Kyle Vandegriff)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 22:47:57 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] Realtor Attendance
Message-ID: <56bd5f520903142047m6f304709nf414c487afc8d05@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all.  I?m wondering if it is advisable to try to entice realtors to
attend my 5-day with clients looking to buy the type of house I?m offering.
I know I?m not supposed to protect the broker, but I feel this might help to
get the real buyers to the house. The only reason I?m considering this
action is because I?ve painted myself into a corner.  I really really need
to sell my house the weekend I?m offering it because of a forced move
(military).  I live in a fairly rural and economically depressed town in
south Texas and am concerned about the lack of volume of home sales in the
area over the past year.



In my situation I feel it might be a good tradeoff to potentially have to
pay a small commission to make the sale happen vs. certainly having to pay a
large one if the real buyers don?t turn out.  Or is this just normal
pre-sale jitters and I should stick to the book?



What sort of minimum commission or flat fee would be sufficient to entice
them to attend (about a $100,000 house)?



Thanks!



-Kyle
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From bill at effros.com  Sun Mar 15 10:04:28 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 10:04:28 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Pricing?
In-Reply-To: <297E8497A7004B66B51163A5EDD5E13B@NSKHome>
References: <003501c9a4b6$feb99c70$0201a8c0@RCCutcher><49BC0B37.9080901@effros.com><8000569D82BA4B39ABF8895F77A2B5E0@NSKHome>	<8CB73034A5E76D7-16A8-A81@WEBMAIL-DZ34.sysops.aol.com>
	<297E8497A7004B66B51163A5EDD5E13B@NSKHome>
Message-ID: <49BD0AEC.8020803@effros.com>

Naji, Conrad,

Important discussion!

I agree with you, Naji, that the housing price downturn is more than 
just a blip on the chart, and I read the same history you read which 
leads me to fear that the current "hard times" could last for a decade 
or more, and could get significantly worse...

Current government strategy is to promote inflation.  If this strategy 
can be made to work in less than 10 years time, it will be considered a 
success.  No one can know the time frame, as Conrad points out, but 
those of us with assets must decide how to handle them.

There is no better way to value a home than a 5-Day Sale.  If you decide 
you are better off selling than holding, there is no better way IMHO, 
than a 5-Day Sale, properly conducted.

This is a decision each of us must make for ourselves, and it's 
important to hear how others view it.

Thanks for talking about this,

Bill Effros
Author





Naji wrote:
>
> Thanks Conrad... As I said, this should be a starting point for 
> pricing... It all depends on Location, Location, and Location after all J
>
>  
>
> As for the 10 years part, I believe based on historical analysis and 
> previous bubbles; gold, oil, commodities, stocks (dot com), etc, 
> etc... It's safe to say that out of whack bubbles take an extremely 
> long time to stabilize and then reach the previous peak:
>
>  
>
> -          Gold hit 850 in 1980... It took almost 30 years to get back 
> to that point, but if we adjust for inflation, we need to be around 
> 1600 to equal 1980 prices
>
> -          Oil the all time high of the 1970's last year (105 Adjusted 
> for inflation) ... Again, more than 30 years later then it shot up 
> past the 1970's highs only to drop down to the 40-50 range now
>
> -          The Nasdaq hit 5048 in 2000... Here we are 9 years later 
> and the Nasdaq is sitting at 1430
>
>  
>
> The problem with housing are many; too many people upside down on 
> their homes, too many homes on the market, too many vacant homes, too 
> many ghost towns especially in bubble markets... To clear all the 
> inventories and for people to get back in the black on their homes 
> will take a very long time. Of course some regions will recover sooner 
> than others, but when it comes to Florida, California, Nevada, and 
> Arizona, I think 10 years is playing it safe.
>
>  
>
> Best regards,
>
>  
>
> -Naji
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* 
> 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] 
> *On Behalf Of *lbicon at aol.com
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 14, 2009 5:31 PM
> *To:* 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Pricing?
>
>  
>
> Naji,
>
> **Great advice.** Not sure about the compounding. There are too many 
> factors to simplify it the way you have. Here is an example I bought 2 
> homes in NJ in 1980 and 1981. The first home was 5 miles from NYC and 
> the other home was about 100 miles from NYC. The first home cost me 
> $165K and the second home cost me $174K. I sold the first home last 
> year for $450K and the second home I could sell next week for $900K. 
> So straight line compunding doesn't work.
>
> As for the "at least ten years". Nobody can predict where RE will be 
> in 10 years. Especially us Mushrooms.
>
> Have a great weekend.
>
> Conrad
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Naji <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>
> To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days' 
> <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
> Sent: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 1:29 pm
> Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Pricing?
>
> Factors to use when pricing your home:
>
>  
>
>    1. If you purchased your home during the bubble (last 5 - 7 Years),
>       you're SOL... The home is not worth anything close to what you
>       think its worth. Expect to do a short sale or walk away from it.
>    2. If you've owned your home for a while:
>
>          1. Get the last 3-5 sales in your neighborhood or within ?
>             mile of your home for the last 3 months. Figure out the
>             Price Per Square foot and apply to your home... This is
>             just to give you an idea/starting point... Sale prices are
>             not accurate in many cases due to seller concessions,
>             giveaways, and other costs that are lumped in the sale price.
>          2. Find out how many foreclosures/bank owned properties are
>             in your neighborhood or within ? mile of your home... This
>             will give you an idea of what the distressed properties
>             nearby are going for to see what you're competing against
>          3. Also, see what's on the market in your neighborhood or
>             within ? mile of your home and figure out the average
>             asking price per square foot. Again to see what others are
>             asking for their homes... This again is also to see what
>             others are "hoping" to get for their property
>          4. If you are the first owner of the house, multiply your
>             original purchase price by 3%-5% compounded annually. If
>             you're not the first owner, find out what the first owner
>             paid for the property and run the numbers accordingly...
>             For example, if you or the first home owner purchased the
>             home in 1990 for 100K, 3% appreciation over the last 19
>             years = $175,350, 4% = $210,685, 5% = $252,695
>
>  
>
> This information should at least give you a range of what your home 
> "should" be worth in a normal market... If the number you're expecting 
> is much higher than what the data indicates, then you need to get 
> realistic or plan on staying in the home until the tide shifts... in 
> this case is at least 10 yea rs.
>
>  
>
> -Naji
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* 
> 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=_cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com_ 
> <mailto:cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com> 
> [_mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com_ 
> <mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com?>] 
> *On Behalf Of *Bill Effros
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 14, 2009 3:53 PM
> *To:* How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Pricing?
>
>  
>
> OK,
>
> Here we go again.
>
> RC Cutcher is a real estate professional in the market every day.  He 
> actually knows what homes are selling for in his area, and is 
> constantly buying and selling homes for his own account.
>
> RC Cutcher is NOT a private home seller.
>
> Private home owners know what they paid for their homes, a short while 
> or a long while ago, and little else.
>
> Brokers don't have a clue, -- they told you your home was worth what 
> you paid when you bought it.  Now they are telling you they can't sell 
> it for that amount, but if you list with them, maybe they can find you 
> a buyer sometime in the future for some amount they have imagined out 
> of thin air.
>
> Here's what I'm saying:
>
> Take the number you think your home is currently worth -- based on any 
> factors you choose to use -- and TEST THAT NUMBER BEFORE WASTING ANY 
> MORE TIME OR MONEY!
>
> You test by offering your home for just 3 days in the best media you 
> can think of in your region.
>
> If you get 25 responses by Friday night you can know that your home is 
> worth substantially more than the advertised price at the current 
> time.  It could be worth twice as much as the advertised price.  It co 
> uld be worth a little less.  It could be worth a little more.  But you 
> can be certain that the advertised price was EXTREMELY ATTRACTIVE to a 
> large number of people looking to buy homes at the present time.
>
> That's what you know.  Nothing more.  Nothing less.
>
> Now, if you start fudging around with your starting price, or the 
> number of responses you get...you don't know anything for sure...and 
> in my humble opinion you are looking for failure if you proceed with a 
> 5-Day Sale without really knowing if your starting price is wildly 
> below the price you can expect to get.
>
> When RC runs 5-Day Sales he has many additional properties for sale.  
> If he ropes them in on one price and sells a different home for a 
> different price, of course many participants accuse him of a bait and 
> switch, because that's exactly what he has done.
>
> But that is not what private home sellers are doing, at all. 
>
> When private home sellers sell their homes using the 5-Day Method 
> properly (start at an honest 50% -- take the high bid) nobody is mad 
> at them.  People who don't have the money are grateful for being 
> treated like everyone else, and being allowed to inspect a fine home 
> slightly beyond their means.  They only get mad if you treat them 
> differently from anybody else, or insult their ability to ever own 
> your home.
>
> People who have the means to afford the house know they have paid a 
> fair price at the current time.
>
> The formulas=2 0presented in the book have been developed over 20 
> years of trial and error.  They work in good times.   They work in bad 
> times.  They work more often for more people than any other formulas 
> I've been asked to consider.
>
> Don't re-invent this wheel.  Don't listen to the advice of people 
> whose circumstances are significantly different from your own.
>
> Bill Effros
> Author
>
>
>
>
>
> RC Cutcher wrote:
>
> 2nd try
>
>  
>
> Sean writes:
>
> One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did is that the people that
> would come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not able
> to afford what we wanted to sell it for (which was $350-$400K)
>
> RC writes:
>
>  
>
> There are a least of couple of us on the Forum that will agree with 
> you about pricing a property at 50%.  How ever unlogical it appears, 
> failure is often assigned because a Seller didn't follow the letter of 
> the law (or book) on that point.
>
> I use a more emotional response to the price by assigning these tags:
>
> Ridiculous
> Tiny
> Small
> Medium
> Large
>
> I find that if a potential buyer doesn't believe he/she has a chance 
> at getting the property somewhere between Tiny and Small, they feel 
> deceived and damaged.  And then  they believe that the property must 
> be stigmatized by some unknown defect or building flaw.
>
> So I think you are on the right track, Sean.  Stay away from 
> ridiculous (50%) pricing, and do the hard work to figure out how to 
> get the property into the 'tiny' range.
>
> RC Cutcher
> Realtor, ABR
> Austin Texas Homes, LLC
> _www.austintexashomes.com_ <http://www.austintexashomes.com/>
> 512-848-4449
>
> The Short Sale/Foreclosure Workshop
> Trec Provider No. 0623
> Course No. 7436
>
> Broker Price Opinion Training
> Every Friday
>
>  
>  
>  
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>  
>  
>  
> _______________________________________________
>
> 5-DayForum mailing list
>
> _5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com_ <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
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>   
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>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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> <http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000035>!
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From bill at effros.com  Sun Mar 15 10:21:19 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 10:21:19 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Realtor Attendance
In-Reply-To: <56bd5f520903142047m6f304709nf414c487afc8d05@mail.gmail.com>
References: <56bd5f520903142047m6f304709nf414c487afc8d05@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49BD0EDF.6010901@effros.com>

Kyle,

Pre-sale jitters.

If you offer your home for $49,500 you'll get 25 responses.  Military 
5-Day Sales have been extremely successful because it's so easy to 
explain to everyone why you are doing what you are doing, and many have 
heard of 5-Day Sales before.

Everyone will know if a $100,000 home is being offered for $50,000 -- 
and they will all know you are really going to go through with it 
because you have to.

Buyers' Brokers will show up with their clients and they will push the 
value of your home to the highest possible level.  They will be paid by 
their clients, and they won't collect anything unless they get their 
clients to bid more than any other buyer is willing to pay. 

Have extra copies of the book on hand -- you should get a very large 
turnout and you may not be able to spend as much time as you need 
explaining the 5-Day Sale over and over.  Tab the buyer's section of the 
book so new buyers can comfortably get into the bidding and take it to 
the highest point they are prepared to pay.

Start at a "Magic Number" -- $49,500 -- not an oddball number.

Play straight -- you'll get the best possible price -- you'll be able to 
buy another home at an equivalent price if you choose to do so.

Bill Effros
Author

Kyle Vandegriff wrote:
>
> Hello all.  I?m wondering if it is advisable to try to entice realtors 
> to attend my 5-day with clients looking to buy the type of house I?m 
> offering.  I know I?m not supposed to protect the broker, but I feel 
> this might help to get the real buyers to the house. The only reason 
> I?m considering this action is because I?ve painted myself into a 
> corner.  I really really need to sell my house the weekend I?m 
> offering it because of a forced move (military).  I live in a fairly 
> rural and economically depressed town in south Texas and am concerned 
> about the lack of volume of home sales in the area over the past year.
>
>  
>
> In my situation I feel it might be a good tradeoff to potentially have 
> to pay a small commission to make the sale happen vs. certainly having 
> to pay a large one if the real buyers don?t turn out.  Or is this just 
> normal pre-sale jitters and I should stick to the book?
>
>  
>
> What sort of minimum commission or flat fee would be sufficient to 
> entice them to attend (about a $100,000 house)?
>
>  
>
> Thanks!
>
>  
>
> -Kyle
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
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From bill at effros.com  Sun Mar 15 10:28:15 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 10:28:15 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] 5 Day Sale in Manhattan
In-Reply-To: <606289.81098.qm@web112206.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.6.1237046411.32407.5-dayforum@mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
	<606289.81098.qm@web112206.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49BD107F.9080106@effros.com>

Forget the packet.

Locate the buyer first.  Find out what your Coop is worth.

We all know how coop boards work around here, and that a sale is never a 
sale until the board OKs it.

Just run the sale, then go through the normal closing routines including 
coop packets and all the rest.

If the Board turns the buyer down, run another 5 Day sale.  You will get 
exactly the same price you got the first time.  Many of the same people 
will bid. 

Keep doing it until the board finally accepts someone -- although I 
would guess it is easier to get people though when there are fewer 
buyers than when there are more buyers than co-ops.

Bill Effros
Author

V Glenda wrote:
> Thank you all for the feedback regarding the length of advertising...I 
> am moving on to the next topic regarding the sale.  I am specifically 
> unclear how and when in the process do I introduce the Coop Board 
> packet that a buyer will have to complete?  Bill, when you sold the 
> coop properties in Manhattan how did you do it? 
>
> Thanks,
> Glenda
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* "5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com" 
> <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
> *To:* 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:00:11 PM
> *Subject:* 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 19
>
> Send 5-DayForum mailing list submissions to
>     5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> <mailto:5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>     
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>     5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
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>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>     5-dayforum-owner at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> <mailto:5-dayforum-owner at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of 5-DayForum digest..."
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 18 (Gary St. Armand)
>   2.  Pricing? (Sean Folkson)
>   3. Re: 5 Day Sale in Manhattan (kelsey uh)
>   4. Re: 5 Day Sale in Manhattan (Kyle Cascioli)
>   5. Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan (Bill Effros)
>   6.  Pricing? (RC Cutcher)
>   7.    Pricing? (RC Cutcher)
>
>
> -----Inline Message Follows-----
>
> Bill,
>  
> Have you ever written an article on using your method to rent an 
> apartment.
> I want my property manager to do the same thing, because I have 5 
> vacancies
> in a 12-unit bldg. I don't know if she'd actually take time to read 
> your book to follow the directions even though it's fairly straight 
> forward.
>
> -Gary
> I--- On *Fri, 3/13/09, 
> 5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> /<5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>/* wrote:
>
>
>     From: 5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>     <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>     Subject: 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 18
>     To: 5-dayforum at mailman..howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>     Date: Friday, March 13, 2009, 4:00 PM
>
>     Send 5-DayForum mailing list submissions to
>         5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
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>
>     To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>        
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>
>     When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>     than "Re: Contents of 5-DayForum digest..."
>     Today's Topics:
>
>        1. Re: 5 Day Sale in Manhattan (Bill Effros)
>     _______________________________________________
>     5-DayForum mailing list
>     5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
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>
>
>
> -----Inline Message Follows-----
>
> In this case, the starting number shouldn't matter too much Lance.
>
> One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did is that the people that 
> would come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not able 
> to afford what we wanted to sell it for (which was $350-$400K)
>
> We had buyers that loved the house, but were only approved up into the 
> $320K range.  We had great response to the ad...over 100 people came 
> over the 2 days, and bids got up to $326,500.  All the buyers told me 
> they were really looking for something cheaper, but they fell in love 
> with our place and went higher than they even wanted to.
>
> We chose not to sell, listed with a realtor, and ultimately got $358K 
> for the house, 2-3 months later.  That sale was this past july.  When 
> I do my next one in a month or two, I will be "tweaking the system", 
> I'm sure much to Bill's dismay.  I can afford to do that, because on 
> this property I'll be selling, I don't really care if it sells or 
> not.  If it doesn't sell, my wife and I will move into it.
>
> What I'll be doing is listing it for the lowest price we'd accept.  
> This will help ensure that any potential buyers who visit can afford 
> to pay what we want for the house.  in this day and age of internet 
> search and filters, listing at 50% of what you want might prevent you 
> from having the right buyers find your property.  If you were looking 
> for a house, you're looking in a price range.  If you enter a price 
> range of $150-$200K, you can't afford to pay the $350-$400K the 5 day 
> seller wants.  And, if you're a consumer looking to spend $350-$400K 
> for a house, you'll likely never even see the ad for the house listed 
> at $174,500.  And, if you do, you'll likely assume it's a dump and not 
> something worth looking at.
>
> sean
>
>
>
>
> -----Inline Message Follows-----
>
> O.K. Thank you
>
> On 3/12/09, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com <mailto:bill at effros.com>> wrote:
> > Kelsey,
> >
> > You can't get legal advice here -- we're not lawyers.
> >
> > 5-Day Sales work best when the owner runs them. Other people can do it,
> > but if you have been following this Forum of late you read the anger of
> > many people toward real estate professionals who are widely blamed for
> > profiting from the bubble that preceded this bust.
> >
> > You can do all the work for Glenda, but she will get a higher price if
> > she does it herself.
> >
> > Bill Effros
> > Author
> >
> >
> >
> > kelsey uh wrote:
> >>
> >> I have been helping Glenda with marketing. I am her friend.
> >>
> >> I have a real estate agent license. If Glenda goes on business trip on
> >> the inspection days, can I do the auction and round robin for her? Is
> >> it legal in NY state?
> >>
> >> Your response will be highly appreciated, as I have no time to check
> >> with county clerks and lawyers.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Kelsey
> >>
> >> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> 5-DayForum mailing list
> >> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
> >> 
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> >>
> >
>
>
>
> -----Inline Message Follows-----
>
> Agreed!
>  
> That's how we do it with with our seller and builder platforms and it 
> works well.
>  
> Many buyers today want direct contact with sellers and builders.
>  
> Best to all,
>  
> Kyle Cascioli
> www.AuctionBySeller.com <http://www.auctionbyseller.com/>
> www.AuctionByBuilder.com <http://www.auctionbybuilder.com/> 
>  
> > Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:27:36 -0400
> > From: kelseyuh at gmail.com
> > To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] 5 Day Sale in Manhattan
> >
> > O.K. Thank you
> >
> > On 3/12/09, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> > > Kelsey,
> > >
> > > You can't get legal advice here -- we're not lawyers.
> > >
> > > 5-Day Sales work best when the owner runs them. Other people can 
> do it,
> > > but if you have been following this Forum of late you read the 
> anger of
> > > many people toward real estate professionals who are widely blamed for
> > > profiting from the bubble that preceded this bust.
> > >
> > > You can do all the work for Glenda, but she will get a higher price if
> > > she does it herself.
> > >
> > > Bill Effros
> > > Author
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > kelsey uh wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I have been helping Glenda with marketing. I am her friend.
> > >>
> > >> I have a real estate agent license. If Glenda goes on business 
> trip on
> > >> the inspection days, can I do the auction and round robin for her? Is
> > >> it legal in NY state?
> > >>
> > >> Your response will be highly appreciated, as I have no time to check
> > >> with county clerks and lawyers.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >>
> > >> Kelsey
> > >>
> > >> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> 5-DayForum mailing list
> > >> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >> 
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> > >>
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > 5-DayForum mailing list
> > 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for 
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>
>
> -----Inline Message Follows-----
>
> Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
>
>
> March 14, 2009
> Your Money
> By RON LIEBER 
> (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/l/ron_lieber/index.html?inline=nyt-per)
>
> If you?re among the millions of people who will not qualify for the 
> Obama administration?s program to help troubled homeowners, you?re 
> probably wondering what you?re supposed to do now.
>
> Perhaps you no longer have enough income to pay your loans 
> (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier). 
> Or you can afford the payments but don?t qualify for refinancing under 
> the new plan because the value of your home is too far below the 
> balance of the loan. If you?re far enough underwater, you?re probably 
> questioning the wisdom of writing a monthly check on a place that may 
> take 10 or 15 years to get back to the value it had two or three years 
> ago. It isn?t easy to come up with the answer, and if you have moral 
> misgivings about not making good on your mortgage 
> (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/mortgages/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier), 
> a religious officiant may offer as much useful guidance as a financial 
> planner 
> (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/planning/financial-planners/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier).
>
> In an economic environment like this one, however, the consequences of 
> giving up on your mortgage may not be as painful as they were a few 
> years ago. Yes, it?s almost always preferable to negotiate a better 
> deal on your existing mortgage than to walk away. But if you can?t 
> work things out with your lender, you probably won?t be sued. You 
> shouldn?t receive a major tax bill either. And the damage to your 
> credit will not be permanent or insurmountable.
>
> Let?s look at these last three in order.
>
> YOUR LENDER First off, let?s define what we mean by ?giving up? on 
> your current mortgage. It may mean trying for a short sale 
> (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/s/short_selling/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier), 
> where the lender allows you to sell your home for less than the 
> mortgage amount. You may also hand over the deed to the home in 
> exchange for the lender agreeing not to start foreclosure proceedings 
> (a ?deed in lieu? in industry terms). Then, there?s foreclosure 
> itself, and the possibility that bankruptcy judges may soon have the 
> power to adjust the terms of primary mortgages.
>
> That said, just because you?re ineligible under the Obama plan doesn?t 
> mean that your lender or servicer won?t ultimately adjust your 
> mortgage anyhow. Collectively, there are enough people in trouble or 
> under water on their loans that they have plenty of leverage if 
> they?re willing to play chicken with their lender and threaten to stop 
> paying.
>
> The problem is, the lender can play chicken, too, by threatening to 
> come after you for the balance of any money you owe ? whether it?s the 
> difference between what you sell the property for yourself and the 
> remaining mortgage, or the loan amount left over after the lender 
> sells your property in foreclosure.
>
> The lender may not follow through, though. ?What our membership is 
> telling us is that it can be cost-prohibitive to chase down a borrower 
> who is already in financial distress,? said John Mechem, a spokesman 
> for the Mortgage Bankers Association. ?You can?t squeeze blood from a 
> stone.? They may, however, still come after people with high incomes 
> who walk away from jumbo loans that are way under water or loans on 
> investment 
> (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/investments/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) 
> properties.
>
> Some states have laws that may specifically prohibit lenders from 
> pursuing borrowers for the balance of many mortgage loans after 
> foreclosure, though the particulars vary. Arizona and California are 
> among these states, according to Steven Bender, a professor at the 
> University of Oregon 
> (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/u/university_of_oregon/index.html?inline=nyt-org) 
> School of Law. It?s best to talk to a lawyer to determine your state?s 
> rules.
>
> In fact, if you want to be sure your lender (or a collection agency 
> that it may sell your loan to) won?t chase you down, it?s a good idea 
> to have a lawyer involved with any short sale, deed in lieu or 
> foreclosure itself. ?You must get the bank to agree in writing that 
> any deficiency is waived,? said Chip Parker, a lawyer specializing in 
> foreclosure with Parker & DuFresne in Jacksonville, Fla.
>
> The biggest challenge here may simply be finding someone at the bank 
> to help. Having a second mortgage will also complicate matters.
>
> YOUR TAXES You also need to consider the taxman. Often, forgiven debts 
> are taxable as income. Recent legislative changes, however, eliminate 
> the federal tax burden through 2012 on most primary residence debt 
> that a lender has reduced through loan restructuring or forgiven 
> during foreclosure.
>
> Mark Luscombe, principal analyst for CCH, a tax information service, 
> said that people who sell their home through a short sale or give up 
> the deed in lieu of foreclosure can also qualify for tax relief if 
> they use a special tax form, 1099-C, that reflects the amount of debt 
> that the lender has forgiven.
>
> People who live in states with their own income taxes may avoid a big 
> bill as well. Some states, like Arizona and California, have 
> introduced or passed legislation that echoes the federal laws, 
> according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. Many 
> others tend to mimic most or all federal income tax laws as a general 
> rule, according to CCH. Check with an accountant in your state to be sure.
>
> YOUR CREDIT A short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure itself will 
> almost certainly damage your credit report and score, and the black 
> mark will last for up to seven years. But the amount of damage it does 
> will depend on how much other credit trouble you?ve gotten yourself 
> into with other lenders..
>
> If you?re giving up the home you own, you?ll probably need to rent 
> soon afterward. Will landlords turn you away once they check your 
> credit and discover your troubled mortgage? ?If it?s the only thing 
> marring their credit, it?s probably not a big issue,? said Clay 
> Powell, the director of the Rental Property Owners Association of 
> Michigan, who added that good tenants could be scarce in economic 
> environments like this one.
>
> In fact, Todd J. Zywicki, a law professor at George Mason University, 
> predicted that FICO may have to adjust its credit scores 
> (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-scores/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) 
> to lessen the impact of a foreclosure or similar incident. ?It just 
> seems obvious that a foreclosure in 2008 or 2009 doesn?t have as much 
> information value as a foreclosure five years ago,? he said. ?To the 
> extent that foreclosure doesn?t predict future behavior as much as it 
> did in the past, you?d expect that the FICO algorithm would change to 
> adjust for that.?
>
> Craig Watts, a spokesman for FICO, said that was an interesting idea. 
> ?We try not to get involved too much in psychobabble around what is 
> and isn?t predictive,? he said. ?If the numbers show that foreclosure 
> is less predictive, then we?ll take it into account in future 
> redevelopments of the formula.? That would take a minimum of two to 
> three years, though.
>
> Some lenders aren?t waiting that long to initiate their own 
> foreclosure destigmatization programs. The Golden 1, one of the 
> nation?s largest credit unions, now has a mortgage repair loan for 
> people who have lost a home to foreclosure but want to buy a new one.
>
> It?s hard to imagine that there won?t be a parade of insurance 
> (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/insurance/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) 
> companies, credit card 
> (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-and-debit-cards/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) 
> issuers and mortgage lenders in Golden 1?s wake, even though Fannie 
> Mae 
> (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/fannie_mae/index.html?inline=nyt-org) 
> and Freddie Mac 
> (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/freddie_mac/index.html?inline=nyt-org) 
> may be unwilling to guarantee the mortgages of such borrowers for 
> several years. In fact, Aaron Bresko, the vice president of lending 
> for BECU, another large credit union based in Washington State, is 
> putting together a panel called ?How to Lend to the Newly Credit 
> Impaired? for a conference later this year.
>
> ?Good people have bad things happen to them, so how do you find those 
> people and reach out to them?? he said. ?As the year progresses, it?s 
> going to be an emerging market.?
>
> How are you handling your mortgage problems?
> Write to rlieber at nytimes.com <mailto:rlieber at nytimes.com>.
>
>
>
>
> -----Inline Message Follows-----
>
> Shean writes:
>  
> One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did is that the people that
> would come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not able
> to afford what we wanted to sell it for (which was $350-$400K)
>  
> There are a least of couple of us on the Forum that will agree with 
> you about pricing a property at 50%.  However unlogical it appears, 
> failure is often assigned because a Seller didn't follow the letter of 
> the law (or book) on that point.
>  
> I use a more emotional response to the price by assigning these tags:
>  
> Ridiculous
> */Tiny/*
> Small
> Medium
> Large
>  
> I find that if a potential buyer doesn't believe he/she has a chance 
> at getting the property somewhere between Tiny and Small, they feel 
> deceived and damaged.  And then  they believe that the property must 
> be stigmatized by some unknown defect or building flaw.
>  
> So I think you are on the right track, Shean.  Stay away from 
> ridiculous (50%) pricing, and do the hard work to figure out how to 
> get the property into the 'tiny' range.
>  
> RC Cutcher
> Realtor, ABR
> Austin Texas Homes, LLC
> www.austintexashomes.com <http://www.austintexashomes.com>
> 512-848-4449
>  
> The Short Sale/Foreclosure Workshop
> Trec Provider No. 0623
> Course No. 7436
>  
> Broker Price Opinion Training
> Every Friday
>
>
>
> -----Inline Message Follows-----
>
> 2nd try
>  
> Sean writes:
>
> One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did is that the people that
> would come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not able
> to afford what we wanted to sell it for (which was $350-$400K)
>
> RC writes:
>  
> There are a least of couple of us on the Forum that will agree with 
> you about pricing a property at 50%.  However unlogical it appears, 
> failure is often assigned because a Seller didn't follow the letter of 
> the law (or book) on that point.
>
> I use a more emotional response to the price by assigning these tags:
>
> Ridiculous
> Tiny
> Small
> Medium
> Large
>
> I find that if a potential buyer doesn't believe he/she has a chance 
> at getting the property somewhere between Tiny and Small, they feel 
> deceived and damaged.  And then  they believe that the property must 
> be stigmatized by some unknown defect or building flaw.
>
> So I think you are on the right track, Sean.  Stay away from 
> ridiculous (50%) pricing, and do the hard work to figure out how to 
> get the property into the 'tiny' range.
>
> RC Cutcher
> Realtor, ABR
> Austin Texas Homes, LLC
> www.austintexashomes.com <http://www.austintexashomes.com>
> 512-848-4449
>
> The Short Sale/Foreclosure Workshop
> Trec Provider No. 0623
> Course No. 7436
>
> Broker Price Opinion Training
> Every Friday
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
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> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
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From bill at effros.com  Sun Mar 15 10:45:04 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 10:45:04 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Pricing
In-Reply-To: <118055.46956.qm@web112211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.6.1237046411.32407.5-dayforum@mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
	<118055.46956.qm@web112211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49BD1470.2070200@effros.com>

Glenda,

Let's talk real numbers here.

Co-op prices in NYC are going down, just like the rest of the 
nation--people are losing their jobs in massive numbers, and those rich 
kids can't afford the Manhattan co-ops anymore -- there is no one to 
sell to at the old prices.

YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GET THE PRICE YOU WANT AT THIS TIME NO MATTER WHAT 
YOU DO!

Don't start the 5-Day method if you are not really prepared to follow 
through.  Sean was offered a lower price because buyers KNEW he wasn't 
really going to sell at the high bid price.  When it becomes clear the 
seller isn't really going to follow through, the buyers leave without 
revealing their top bid.

If you buy Sean's story, why is he using the 5-Day Method again?  If you 
believe a Real Estate Broker can get you more 2-3 months from now, why 
not offer your home through a Real Estate Broker for 2-3 months and see 
if you get what you want, or not.  You can always run a 5-Day Sale.

You are setting yourself up for failure.  You are tweaking something you 
don't understand.  This is not going to work!

Bill Effros
Author




V Glenda wrote:
> Hi!  All-
> Maybe I am just getting the cold feet...our 5 day sale is scheduled 
> for this coming weekend and I just read Sean's comment about 
> pricing...I am also concerned that those who will show up at our open 
> house cannot really afford the price we want and worst of all will not 
> qualify to get through the coop board for the same reasons Sean 
> mentioned.  
>
> In the event that we don't get the price we want and end up not 
> selling, I am wondering how Sean told the highest bidder of his 
> decision not to sell and how did the buyer take it?  
>
> Thanks,
> Glenda
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* "5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com" 
> <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
> *To:* 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:00:11 PM
> *Subject:* 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 19
>
> Send 5-DayForum mailing list submissions to
>     5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> <mailto:5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>     
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>     5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> <mailto:5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>     5-dayforum-owner at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> <mailto:5-dayforum-owner at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of 5-DayForum digest..."
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 18 (Gary St. Armand)
>   2.  Pricing? (Sean Folkson)
>   3. Re: 5 Day Sale in Manhattan (kelsey uh)
>   4. Re: 5 Day Sale in Manhattan (Kyle Cascioli)
>   5. Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan (Bill Effros)
>   6.  Pricing? (RC Cutcher)
>   7.    Pricing? (RC Cutcher)
>
>
> -----Inline Message Follows-----
>
> Bill,
>  
> Have you ever written an article on using your method to rent an 
> apartment.
> I want my property manager to do the same thing, because I have 5 
> vacancies
> in a 12-unit bldg. I don't know if she'd actually take time to read 
> your book to follow the directions even though it's fairly straight 
> forward.
>
> -Gary
> I--- On *Fri, 3/13/09, 
> 5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> /<5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>/* wrote:
>
>
>     From: 5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>     <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>     Subject: 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 18
>     To: 5-dayforum at mailman..howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>     Date: Friday, March 13, 2009, 4:00 PM
>
>     Send 5-DayForum mailing list submissions to
>         5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>     <http://us.mc450.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>
>     To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>        
>     http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>     or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>         5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
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>
>     You can reach the person managing the list at
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>
>     When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>     than "Re: Contents of 5-DayForum digest..."
>     Today's Topics:
>
>        1. Re: 5 Day Sale in Manhattan (Bill Effros)
>     _______________________________________________
>     5-DayForum mailing list
>     5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>     <http://us.mc450.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
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>
>
>
> -----Inline Message Follows-----
>
> In this case, the starting number shouldn't matter too much Lance.
>
> One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did is that the people that 
> would come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not able 
> to afford what we wanted to sell it for (which was $350-$400K)
>
> We had buyers that loved the house, but were only approved up into the 
> $320K range.  We had great response to the ad...over 100 people came 
> over the 2 days, and bids got up to $326,500.  All the buyers told me 
> they were really looking for something cheaper, but they fell in love 
> with our place and went higher than they even wanted to.
>
> We chose not to sell, listed with a realtor, and ultimately got $358K 
> for the house, 2-3 months later.  That sale was this past july.  When 
> I do my next one in a month or two, I will be "tweaking the system", 
> I'm sure much to Bill's dismay.  I can afford to do that, because on 
> this property I'll be selling, I don't really care if it sells or 
> not.  If it doesn't sell, my wife and I will move into it.
>
> What I'll be doing is listing it for the lowest price we'd accept.  
> This will help ensure that any potential buyers who visit can afford 
> to pay what we want for the house.  in this day and age of internet 
> search and filters, listing at 50% of what you want might prevent you 
> from having the right buyers find your property.  If you were looking 
> for a house, you're looking in a price range.  If you enter a price 
> range of $150-$200K, you can't afford to pay the $350-$400K the 5 day 
> seller wants.  And, if you're a consumer looking to spend $350-$400K 
> for a house, you'll likely never even see the ad for the house listed 
> at $174,500.  And, if you do, you'll likely assume it's a dump and not 
> something worth looking at.
>
> sean
>
>
>
>
> -----Inline Message Follows-----
>
> O.K. Thank you
>
> On 3/12/09, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com <mailto:bill at effros.com>> wrote:
> > Kelsey,
> >
> > You can't get legal advice here -- we're not lawyers.
> >
> > 5-Day Sales work best when the owner runs them. Other people can do it,
> > but if you have been following this Forum of late you read the anger of
> > many people toward real estate professionals who are widely blamed for
> > profiting from the bubble that preceded this bust.
> >
> > You can do all the work for Glenda, but she will get a higher price if
> > she does it herself.
> >
> > Bill Effros
> > Author
> >
> >
> >
> > kelsey uh wrote:
> >>
> >> I have been helping Glenda with marketing. I am her friend.
> >>
> >> I have a real estate agent license. If Glenda goes on business trip on
> >> the inspection days, can I do the auction and round robin for her? Is
> >> it legal in NY state?
> >>
> >> Your response will be highly appreciated, as I have no time to check
> >> with county clerks and lawyers.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Kelsey
> >>
> >> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> 5-DayForum mailing list
> >> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
> >> 
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> >>
> >
>
>
>
> -----Inline Message Follows-----
>
> Agreed!
>  
> That's how we do it with with our seller and builder platforms and it 
> works well.
>  
> Many buyers today want direct contact with sellers and builders.
>  
> Best to all,
>  
> Kyle Cascioli
> www.AuctionBySeller.com <http://www.auctionbyseller.com/>
> www.AuctionByBuilder.com <http://www.auctionbybuilder.com/> 
>  
> > Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:27:36 -0400
> > From: kelseyuh at gmail.com
> > To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] 5 Day Sale in Manhattan
> >
> > O.K. Thank you
> >
> > On 3/12/09, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> > > Kelsey,
> > >
> > > You can't get legal advice here -- we're not lawyers.
> > >
> > > 5-Day Sales work best when the owner runs them. Other people can 
> do it,
> > > but if you have been following this Forum of late you read the 
> anger of
> > > many people toward real estate professionals who are widely blamed for
> > > profiting from the bubble that preceded this bust.
> > >
> > > You can do all the work for Glenda, but she will get a higher price if
> > > she does it herself.
> > >
> > > Bill Effros
> > > Author
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > kelsey uh wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I have been helping Glenda with marketing. I am her friend.
> > >>
> > >> I have a real estate agent license. If Glenda goes on business 
> trip on
> > >> the inspection days, can I do the auction and round robin for her? Is
> > >> it legal in NY state?
> > >>
> > >> Your response will be highly appreciated, as I have no time to check
> > >> with county clerks and lawyers.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >>
> > >> Kelsey
> > >>
> > >> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> 5-DayForum mailing list
> > >> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >> 
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> > >>
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > 5-DayForum mailing list
> > 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for 
> Hotmail?. See how. 
> <http://www.windowslive-hotmail..com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme> 
>
>
> -----Inline Message Follows-----
>
> Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
>
>
> March 14, 2009
> Your Money
> By RON LIEBER 
> (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/l/ron_lieber/index.html?inline=nyt-per)
>
> If you?re among the millions of people who will not qualify for the 
> Obama administration?s program to help troubled homeowners, you?re 
> probably wondering what you?re supposed to do now.
>
> Perhaps you no longer have enough income to pay your loans 
> (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier). 
> Or you can afford the payments but don?t qualify for refinancing under 
> the new plan because the value of your home is too far below the 
> balance of the loan. If you?re far enough underwater, you?re probably 
> questioning the wisdom of writing a monthly check on a place that may 
> take 10 or 15 years to get back to the value it had two or three years 
> ago. It isn?t easy to come up with the answer, and if you have moral 
> misgivings about not making good on your mortgage 
> (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/mortgages/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier), 
> a religious officiant may offer as much useful guidance as a financial 
> planner 
> (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/planning/financial-planners/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier).
>
> In an economic environment like this one, however, the consequences of 
> giving up on your mortgage may not be as painful as they were a few 
> years ago. Yes, it?s almost always preferable to negotiate a better 
> deal on your existing mortgage than to walk away. But if you can?t 
> work things out with your lender, you probably won?t be sued. You 
> shouldn?t receive a major tax bill either. And the damage to your 
> credit will not be permanent or insurmountable.
>
> Let?s look at these last three in order.
>
> YOUR LENDER First off, let?s define what we mean by ?giving up? on 
> your current mortgage. It may mean trying for a short sale 
> (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/s/short_selling/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier), 
> where the lender allows you to sell your home for less than the 
> mortgage amount. You may also hand over the deed to the home in 
> exchange for the lender agreeing not to start foreclosure proceedings 
> (a ?deed in lieu? in industry terms). Then, there?s foreclosure 
> itself, and the possibility that bankruptcy judges may soon have the 
> power to adjust the terms of primary mortgages.
>
> That said, just because you?re ineligible under the Obama plan doesn?t 
> mean that your lender or servicer won?t ultimately adjust your 
> mortgage anyhow. Collectively, there are enough people in trouble or 
> under water on their loans that they have plenty of leverage if 
> they?re willing to play chicken with their lender and threaten to stop 
> paying.
>
> The problem is, the lender can play chicken, too, by threatening to 
> come after you for the balance of any money you owe ? whether it?s the 
> difference between what you sell the property for yourself and the 
> remaining mortgage, or the loan amount left over after the lender 
> sells your property in foreclosure.
>
> The lender may not follow through, though. ?What our membership is 
> telling us is that it can be cost-prohibitive to chase down a borrower 
> who is already in financial distress,? said John Mechem, a spokesman 
> for the Mortgage Bankers Association. ?You can?t squeeze blood from a 
> stone.? They may, however, still come after people with high incomes 
> who walk away from jumbo loans that are way under water or loans on 
> investment 
> (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/investments/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) 
> properties.
>
> Some states have laws that may specifically prohibit lenders from 
> pursuing borrowers for the balance of many mortgage loans after 
> foreclosure, though the particulars vary. Arizona and California are 
> among these states, according to Steven Bender, a professor at the 
> University of Oregon 
> (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/u/university_of_oregon/index.html?inline=nyt-org) 
> School of Law. It?s best to talk to a lawyer to determine your state?s 
> rules.
>
> In fact, if you want to be sure your lender (or a collection agency 
> that it may sell your loan to) won?t chase you down, it?s a good idea 
> to have a lawyer involved with any short sale, deed in lieu or 
> foreclosure itself. ?You must get the bank to agree in writing that 
> any deficiency is waived,? said Chip Parker, a lawyer specializing in 
> foreclosure with Parker & DuFresne in Jacksonville, Fla.
>
> The biggest challenge here may simply be finding someone at the bank 
> to help. Having a second mortgage will also complicate matters.
>
> YOUR TAXES You also need to consider the taxman. Often, forgiven debts 
> are taxable as income. Recent legislative changes, however, eliminate 
> the federal tax burden through 2012 on most primary residence debt 
> that a lender has reduced through loan restructuring or forgiven 
> during foreclosure.
>
> Mark Luscombe, principal analyst for CCH, a tax information service, 
> said that people who sell their home through a short sale or give up 
> the deed in lieu of foreclosure can also qualify for tax relief if 
> they use a special tax form, 1099-C, that reflects the amount of debt 
> that the lender has forgiven.
>
> People who live in states with their own income taxes may avoid a big 
> bill as well. Some states, like Arizona and California, have 
> introduced or passed legislation that echoes the federal laws, 
> according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. Many 
> others tend to mimic most or all federal income tax laws as a general 
> rule, according to CCH. Check with an accountant in your state to be sure.
>
> YOUR CREDIT A short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure itself will 
> almost certainly damage your credit report and score, and the black 
> mark will last for up to seven years. But the amount of damage it does 
> will depend on how much other credit trouble you?ve gotten yourself 
> into with other lenders..
>
> If you?re giving up the home you own, you?ll probably need to rent 
> soon afterward. Will landlords turn you away once they check your 
> credit and discover your troubled mortgage? ?If it?s the only thing 
> marring their credit, it?s probably not a big issue,? said Clay 
> Powell, the director of the Rental Property Owners Association of 
> Michigan, who added that good tenants could be scarce in economic 
> environments like this one.
>
> In fact, Todd J. Zywicki, a law professor at George Mason University, 
> predicted that FICO may have to adjust its credit scores 
> (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-scores/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) 
> to lessen the impact of a foreclosure or similar incident. ?It just 
> seems obvious that a foreclosure in 2008 or 2009 doesn?t have as much 
> information value as a foreclosure five years ago,? he said. ?To the 
> extent that foreclosure doesn?t predict future behavior as much as it 
> did in the past, you?d expect that the FICO algorithm would change to 
> adjust for that.?
>
> Craig Watts, a spokesman for FICO, said that was an interesting idea. 
> ?We try not to get involved too much in psychobabble around what is 
> and isn?t predictive,? he said. ?If the numbers show that foreclosure 
> is less predictive, then we?ll take it into account in future 
> redevelopments of the formula.? That would take a minimum of two to 
> three years, though.
>
> Some lenders aren?t waiting that long to initiate their own 
> foreclosure destigmatization programs. The Golden 1, one of the 
> nation?s largest credit unions, now has a mortgage repair loan for 
> people who have lost a home to foreclosure but want to buy a new one.
>
> It?s hard to imagine that there won?t be a parade of insurance 
> (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/insurance/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) 
> companies, credit card 
> (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-and-debit-cards/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) 
> issuers and mortgage lenders in Golden 1?s wake, even though Fannie 
> Mae 
> (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/fannie_mae/index.html?inline=nyt-org) 
> and Freddie Mac 
> (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/freddie_mac/index.html?inline=nyt-org) 
> may be unwilling to guarantee the mortgages of such borrowers for 
> several years. In fact, Aaron Bresko, the vice president of lending 
> for BECU, another large credit union based in Washington State, is 
> putting together a panel called ?How to Lend to the Newly Credit 
> Impaired? for a conference later this year.
>
> ?Good people have bad things happen to them, so how do you find those 
> people and reach out to them?? he said. ?As the year progresses, it?s 
> going to be an emerging market.?
>
> How are you handling your mortgage problems?
> Write to rlieber at nytimes.com <mailto:rlieber at nytimes.com>.
>
>
>
>
> -----Inline Message Follows-----
>
> Shean writes:
>  
> One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did is that the people that
> would come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not able
> to afford what we wanted to sell it for (which was $350-$400K)
>  
> There are a least of couple of us on the Forum that will agree with 
> you about pricing a property at 50%.  However unlogical it appears, 
> failure is often assigned because a Seller didn't follow the letter of 
> the law (or book) on that point.
>  
> I use a more emotional response to the price by assigning these tags:
>  
> Ridiculous
> */Tiny/*
> Small
> Medium
> Large
>  
> I find that if a potential buyer doesn't believe he/she has a chance 
> at getting the property somewhere between Tiny and Small, they feel 
> deceived and damaged.  And then  they believe that the property must 
> be stigmatized by some unknown defect or building flaw.
>  
> So I think you are on the right track, Shean.  Stay away from 
> ridiculous (50%) pricing, and do the hard work to figure out how to 
> get the property into the 'tiny' range.
>  
> RC Cutcher
> Realtor, ABR
> Austin Texas Homes, LLC
> www.austintexashomes.com <http://www.austintexashomes.com>
> 512-848-4449
>  
> The Short Sale/Foreclosure Workshop
> Trec Provider No. 0623
> Course No. 7436
>  
> Broker Price Opinion Training
> Every Friday
>
>
>
> -----Inline Message Follows-----
>
> 2nd try
>  
> Sean writes:
>
> One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did is that the people that
> would come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not able
> to afford what we wanted to sell it for (which was $350-$400K)
>
> RC writes:
>  
> There are a least of couple of us on the Forum that will agree with 
> you about pricing a property at 50%.  However unlogical it appears, 
> failure is often assigned because a Seller didn't follow the letter of 
> the law (or book) on that point.
>
> I use a more emotional response to the price by assigning these tags:
>
> Ridiculous
> Tiny
> Small
> Medium
> Large
>
> I find that if a potential buyer doesn't believe he/she has a chance 
> at getting the property somewhere between Tiny and Small, they feel 
> deceived and damaged.  And then  they believe that the property must 
> be stigmatized by some unknown defect or building flaw.
>
> So I think you are on the right track, Sean.  Stay away from 
> ridiculous (50%) pricing, and do the hard work to figure out how to 
> get the property into the 'tiny' range.
>
> RC Cutcher
> Realtor, ABR
> Austin Texas Homes, LLC
> www.austintexashomes.com <http://www.austintexashomes.com>
> 512-848-4449
>
> The Short Sale/Foreclosure Workshop
> Trec Provider No. 0623
> Course No. 7436
>
> Broker Price Opinion Training
> Every Friday
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
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From nkhouri at cfl.rr.com  Sun Mar 15 10:47:58 2009
From: nkhouri at cfl.rr.com (Naji)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 10:47:58 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Pricing?
In-Reply-To: <49BD0741.5050909@effros.com>
References: <003501c9a4b6$feb99c70$0201a8c0@RCCutcher>	<49BC0B37.9080901@effros.com><8000569D82BA4B39ABF8895F77A2B5E0@NSKHome>
	<49BD0741.5050909@effros.com>
Message-ID: <68DB174FA8A54F308D385A3CFF4BBD6D@NSKHome>

Thank you Bill
 I live in Central Florida, which is ground zero when it
comes to housing. I agree with you that the formula works for some parts of
the country but not others
 They actually may change from one neighborhood
to another. 

 

My intention is to give the average home owner the tools necessary to give
them an idea of what?s taking place in their own area. As I said, it?s just
a starting point or what I would call a 10,000 view from above.

 

After all, it?s always the buyer that will determine what something is worth
and no amount of research, comparables, appraisal, or anything else really
matters. I learned that from doing many 5-day sales on properties that we?ve
owned and truly learned it when I sold my own residence in August 2006 using
the 5-day method: I had over 150 people attend, over 40 initial bids, and
sold it AS-IS by the end of the weekend to a Real Estate Attorney of all
people
 After the sale, many of the so called professionals contacted me to
tell me that I gave the place away and could have gotten at least 40K more
for it had I used their services. A year later, all of these so called pros
said that I really got top dollar for it.

 

-Naji

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 9:49 AM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Pricing?

 

Naji,

Thanks for spending the time to provide so much detail to the list.  It's
extremely helpful to have a concrete starting point.

Where are you?

Your suggested formulas may work for your region, but they are not right for
other places.  

Still, they suggest a methodology for coming up with a starting price.

The whole point of the 5-Day Method is that it is possible for anyone to
know in 5 days what their home is worth, and to sell it for current market
value.

First, somehow, you must come up with some idea of how much your home is
currently worth.

Then, if you follow my book, you offer your home for 1/2 that amount.

If you get 25 responses by Friday night, you can be sure your home is worth
much more than the starting price.  If you don't get 25 responses by Friday
night, you don't know anything...except that you should call off your sale
until you understand your local market better.

Where I live, homes are still worth pretty much what they were purchased for
up to 2 years ago.  There are no nearby foreclosures.  Square footage is
more important with regard to zoning permitted than current home size. etc.

But, at least you have provided a way for people to think that makes some
sense.  They MUST come up with some starting price -- some number they think
is possible at this time.

If they offer their home at 50% of what they believe their home is currently
worth, and fail to get 25 responses by Friday night, they can be pretty sure
their valuation is too high, and they MUST go back to the drawing board to
figure out current market value and deal with it.  They should NOT say "19
is close enough, let's just tough it out..."

How they do this is up to them, but you have provided some valuable
mechanisms for coming up with a ballpark number that people must establish
before they can proceed with the 5-Day Method.

Any other formula or way of coming up with a number would also be helpful if
anyone else has more ideas.

Bill Effros
Author



Naji wrote: 

Factors to use when pricing your home:

 

1.	If you purchased your home during the bubble (last 5 - 7 Years),
you?re SOL
 The home is not worth anything close to what you think its
worth. Expect to do a short sale or walk away from it. 
2.	If you?ve owned your home for a while:

a.	Get the last 3-5 sales in your neighborhood or within ? mile of your
home for the last 3 months. Figure out the Price Per Square foot and apply
to your home
 This is just to give you an idea/starting point
 Sale prices
are not accurate in many cases due to seller concessions, giveaways, and
other costs that are lumped in the sale price.
b.	Find out how many foreclosures/bank owned properties are in your
neighborhood or within ? mile of your home
 This will give you an idea of
what the distressed properties nearby are going for to see what you?re
competing against
c.	Also, see what?s on the market in your neighborhood or within ? mile
of your home and figure out the average asking price per square foot. Again
to see what others are asking for their homes
 This again is also to see
what others are ?hoping? to get for their property
d.	If you are the first owner of the house, multiply your original
purchase price by 3%-5% compounded annually. If you?re not the first owner,
find out what the first owner paid for the property and run the numbers
accordingly
 For example, if you or the first home owner purchased the home
in 1990 for 100K, 3% appreciation over the last 19 years = $175,350, 4% =
$210,685, 5% = $252,695

 

This information should at least give you a range of what your home ?should?
be worth in a normal market
 If the number you?re expecting is much higher
than what the data indicates, then you need to get realistic or plan on
staying in the home until the tide shifts
 in this case is at least 10
years.

 

-Naji

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 3:53 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Pricing?

 

OK,

Here we go again.

RC Cutcher is a real estate professional in the market every day.  He
actually knows what homes are selling for in his area, and is constantly
buying and selling homes for his own account.

RC Cutcher is NOT a private home seller.

Private home owners know what they paid for their homes, a short while or a
long while ago, and little else.

Brokers don't have a clue, -- they told you your home was worth what you
paid when you bought it.  Now they are telling you they can't sell it for
that amount, but if you list with them, maybe they can find you a buyer
sometime in the future for some amount they have imagined out of thin air.

Here's what I'm saying:

Take the number you think your home is currently worth -- based on any
factors you choose to use -- and TEST THAT NUMBER BEFORE WASTING ANY MORE
TIME OR MONEY!

You test by offering your home for just 3 days in the best media you can
think of in your region.

If you get 25 responses by Friday night you can know that your home is worth
substantially more than the advertised price at the current time.  It could
be worth twice as much as the advertised price.  It could be worth a little
less.  It could be worth a little more.  But you can be certain that the
advertised price was EXTREMELY ATTRACTIVE to a large number of people
looking to buy homes at the present time.

That's what you know.  Nothing more.  Nothing less.

Now, if you start fudging around with your starting price, or the number of
responses you get...you don't know anything for sure...and in my humble
opinion you are looking for failure if you proceed with a 5-Day Sale without
really knowing if your starting price is wildly below the price you can
expect to get.

When RC runs 5-Day Sales he has many additional properties for sale.  If he
ropes them in on one price and sells a different home for a different price,
of course many participants accuse him of a bait and switch, because that's
exactly what he has done.

But that is not what private home sellers are doing, at all.  

When private home sellers sell their homes using the 5-Day Method properly
(start at an honest 50% -- take the high bid) nobody is mad at them.  People
who don't have the money are grateful for being treated like everyone else,
and being allowed to inspect a fine home slightly beyond their means.  They
only get mad if you treat them differently from anybody else, or insult
their ability to ever own your home.

People who have the means to afford the house know they have paid a fair
price at the current time.

The formulas presented in the book have been developed over 20 years of
trial and error.  They work in good times.   They work in bad times.  They
work more often for more people than any other formulas I've been asked to
consider.

Don't re-invent this wheel.  Don't listen to the advice of people whose
circumstances are significantly different from your own.

Bill Effros
Author





RC Cutcher wrote: 

2nd try

 

Sean writes:

One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did is that the people that 
would come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not able 
to afford what we wanted to sell it for (which was $350-$400K)

RC writes:

 

There are a least of couple of us on the Forum that will agree with you
about pricing a property at 50%.  However unlogical it appears, failure is
often assigned because a Seller didn't follow the letter of the law (or
book) on that point. 

I use a more emotional response to the price by assigning these tags:

Ridiculous
Tiny
Small
Medium
Large

I find that if a potential buyer doesn't believe he/she has a chance at
getting the property somewhere between Tiny and Small, they feel deceived
and damaged.  And then  they believe that the property must be stigmatized
by some unknown defect or building flaw. 

So I think you are on the right track, Sean.  Stay away from ridiculous
(50%) pricing, and do the hard work to figure out how to get the property
into the 'tiny' range. 

RC Cutcher
Realtor, ABR
Austin Texas Homes, LLC
www.austintexashomes.com
512-848-4449

The Short Sale/Foreclosure Workshop
Trec Provider No. 0623
Course No. 7436

Broker Price Opinion Training
Every Friday

 
 
 





  _____  



 
 
 
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5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
  
 





  _____  



 
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From nkhouri at cfl.rr.com  Sun Mar 15 10:50:12 2009
From: nkhouri at cfl.rr.com (Naji)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 10:50:12 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Realtor Attendance
In-Reply-To: <56bd5f520903142047m6f304709nf414c487afc8d05@mail.gmail.com>
References: <56bd5f520903142047m6f304709nf414c487afc8d05@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DA7DBA6CB05A4156861A162684085C0A@NSKHome>

Realtors don't find buyers. Buyers find the Realtors and use their service
to buy. You can always offer a commission for a Realtor that brings you a
buyer and add a buyer's premium to the mix.

 

-Naji

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of Kyle Vandegriff
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 11:48 PM
To: 5-dayforum at howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Subject: [5-DayForum] Realtor Attendance

 

Hello all.  I'm wondering if it is advisable to try to entice realtors to
attend my 5-day with clients looking to buy the type of house I'm offering.
I know I'm not supposed to protect the broker, but I feel this might help to
get the real buyers to the house. The only reason I'm considering this
action is because I've painted myself into a corner.  I really really need
to sell my house the weekend I'm offering it because of a forced move
(military).  I live in a fairly rural and economically depressed town in
south Texas and am concerned about the lack of volume of home sales in the
area over the past year.

 

In my situation I feel it might be a good tradeoff to potentially have to
pay a small commission to make the sale happen vs. certainly having to pay a
large one if the real buyers don't turn out.  Or is this just normal
pre-sale jitters and I should stick to the book?

 

What sort of minimum commission or flat fee would be sufficient to entice
them to attend (about a $100,000 house)? 

 

Thanks!

 

-Kyle

 

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From nkhouri at cfl.rr.com  Sun Mar 15 10:54:58 2009
From: nkhouri at cfl.rr.com (Naji)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 10:54:58 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Pricing
In-Reply-To: <49BD1470.2070200@effros.com>
References: <mailman.6.1237046411.32407.5-dayforum@mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com><118055.46956.qm@web112211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<49BD1470.2070200@effros.com>
Message-ID: <324453D44A194057B2393866C584A3C5@NSKHome>

Bill hit it right on the nail "YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GET THE PRICE YOU WANT
AT THIS TIME NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO!" 

 

We all WANT a certain price or NEED to get a certain price, however, what we
WANT, NEED, and GET for a house will never be the same.

 

-Naji

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 10:45 AM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Pricing

 

Glenda,

Let's talk real numbers here.

Co-op prices in NYC are going down, just like the rest of the nation--people
are losing their jobs in massive numbers, and those rich kids can't afford
the Manhattan co-ops anymore -- there is no one to sell to at the old
prices.

YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GET THE PRICE YOU WANT AT THIS TIME NO MATTER WHAT YOU
DO!

Don't start the 5-Day method if you are not really prepared to follow
through.  Sean was offered a lower price because buyers KNEW he wasn't
really going to sell at the high bid price.  When it becomes clear the
seller isn't really going to follow through, the buyers leave without
revealing their top bid.

If you buy Sean's story, why is he using the 5-Day Method again?  If you
believe a Real Estate Broker can get you more 2-3 months from now, why not
offer your home through a Real Estate Broker for 2-3 months and see if you
get what you want, or not.  You can always run a 5-Day Sale.

You are setting yourself up for failure.  You are tweaking something you
don't understand.  This is not going to work!

Bill Effros
Author




V Glenda wrote: 

Hi!  All-

Maybe I am just getting the cold feet...our 5 day sale is scheduled for this
coming weekend and I just read Sean's comment about pricing...I am also
concerned that those who will show up at our open house cannot really afford
the price we want and worst of all will not qualify to get through the coop
board for the same reasons Sean mentioned.  

 

In the event that we don't get the price we want and end up not selling, I
am wondering how Sean told the highest bidder of his decision not to sell
and how did the buyer take it?  

 

Thanks,

Glenda

 

  _____  

From:  <mailto:5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
"5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com"
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Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:00:11 PM
Subject: 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 19

Send 5-DayForum mailing list submissions to
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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 18 (Gary St. Armand)
  2.  Pricing? (Sean Folkson)
  3. Re: 5 Day Sale in Manhattan (kelsey uh)
  4. Re: 5 Day Sale in Manhattan (Kyle Cascioli)
  5. Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan (Bill Effros)
  6.  Pricing? (RC Cutcher)
  7.    Pricing? (RC Cutcher)


-----Inline Message Follows-----


Bill,

 

Have you ever written an article on using your method to rent an apartment.

I want my property manager to do the same thing, because I have 5 vacancies

in a 12-unit bldg. I don't know if she'd actually take time to read your
book to follow the directions even though it's fairly straight forward.

-Gary

I--- On Fri, 3/13/09,
5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
<mailto:5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
<5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com> wrote:


From: 5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
<mailto:5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
<5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Subject: 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 18
To: 5-dayforum at mailman..howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Date: Friday, March 13, 2009, 4:00 PM

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   1. Re: 5 Day Sale in Manhattan (Bill Effros)

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-----Inline Message Follows-----

In this case, the starting number shouldn't matter too much Lance.

One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did is that the people that would
come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not able to afford
what we wanted to sell it for (which was $350-$400K)

We had buyers that loved the house, but were only approved up into the $320K
range.  We had great response to the ad...over 100 people came over the 2
days, and bids got up to $326,500.  All the buyers told me they were really
looking for something cheaper, but they fell in love with our place and went
higher than they even wanted to.

We chose not to sell, listed with a realtor, and ultimately got $358K for
the house, 2-3 months later.  That sale was this past july.  When I do my
next one in a month or two, I will be "tweaking the system", I'm sure much
to Bill's dismay.  I can afford to do that, because on this property I'll be
selling, I don't really care if it sells or not.  If it doesn't sell, my
wife and I will move into it.

What I'll be doing is listing it for the lowest price we'd accept.  This
will help ensure that any potential buyers who visit can afford to pay what
we want for the house.  in this day and age of internet search and filters,
listing at 50% of what you want might prevent you from having the right
buyers find your property.  If you were looking for a house, you're looking
in a price range.  If you enter a price range of $150-$200K, you can't
afford to pay the $350-$400K the 5 day seller wants.  And, if you're a
consumer looking to spend $350-$400K for a house, you'll likely never even
see the ad for the house listed at $174,500.  And, if you do, you'll likely
assume it's a dump and not something worth looking at.

sean




-----Inline Message Follows-----

O.K. Thank you

On 3/12/09, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> Kelsey,
>
> You can't get legal advice here -- we're not lawyers.
>
> 5-Day Sales work best when the owner runs them. Other people can do it,
> but if you have been following this Forum of late you read the anger of
> many people toward real estate professionals who are widely blamed for
> profiting from the bubble that preceded this bust.
>
> You can do all the work for Glenda, but she will get a higher price if
> she does it herself.
>
> Bill Effros
> Author
>
>
>
> kelsey uh wrote:
>>
>> I have been helping Glenda with marketing. I am her friend.
>>
>> I have a real estate agent license. If Glenda goes on business trip on
>> the inspection days, can I do the auction and round robin for her? Is
>> it legal in NY state?
>>
>> Your response will be highly appreciated, as I have no time to check
>> with county clerks and lawyers.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Kelsey
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> 5-DayForum mailing list
>> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>>
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>
>



-----Inline Message Follows-----

Agreed!
 
That's how we do it with with our seller and builder platforms and it works
well.
 
Many buyers today want direct contact with sellers and builders.
 
Best to all, 
 
Kyle Cascioli
www.AuctionBySeller.com <http://www.auctionbyseller.com/>  
www.AuctionByBuilder.com <http://www.auctionbybuilder.com/>  
 
> Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:27:36 -0400
> From: kelseyuh at gmail.com
> To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] 5 Day Sale in Manhattan
> 
> O.K. Thank you
> 
> On 3/12/09, Bill Effros  <mailto:bill at effros.com> <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> > Kelsey,
> >
> > You can't get legal advice here -- we're not lawyers.
> >
> > 5-Day Sales work best when the owner runs them. Other people can do it,
> > but if you have been following this Forum of late you read the anger of
> > many people toward real estate professionals who are widely blamed for
> > profiting from the bubble that preceded this bust.
> >
> > You can do all the work for Glenda, but she will get a higher price if
> > she does it herself.
> >
> > Bill Effros
> > Author
> >
> >
> >
> > kelsey uh wrote:
> >>
> >> I have been helping Glenda with marketing. I am her friend.
> >>
> >> I have a real estate agent license. If Glenda goes on business trip on
> >> the inspection days, can I do the auction and round robin for her? Is
> >> it legal in NY state?
> >>
> >> Your response will be highly appreciated, as I have no time to check
> >> with county clerks and lawyers.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Kelsey
> >>
> >>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> 5-DayForum mailing list
> >> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> >>
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> >>
> >
> _______________________________________________
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> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>
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-----Inline Message Follows-----

Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan


March 14, 2009
Your Money
By RON LIEBER
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/l/ron_lieber/ind
ex.html?inline=nyt-per)

If you're among the millions of people who will not qualify for the Obama
administration's program to help troubled homeowners, you're probably
wondering what you're supposed to do now.

Perhaps you no longer have enough income to pay your loans
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
). Or you can afford the payments but don't qualify for refinancing under
the new plan because the value of your home is too far below the balance of
the loan. If you're far enough underwater, you're probably questioning the
wisdom of writing a monthly check on a place that may take 10 or 15 years to
get back to the value it had two or three years ago. It isn't easy to come
up with the answer, and if you have moral misgivings about not making good
on your mortgage
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/mortgages/index.html?inline=nyt-
classifier), a religious officiant may offer as much useful guidance as a
financial planner
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/planning/financial-planners/index.html
?inline=nyt-classifier).

In an economic environment like this one, however, the consequences of
giving up on your mortgage may not be as painful as they were a few years
ago. Yes, it's almost always preferable to negotiate a better deal on your
existing mortgage than to walk away. But if you can't work things out with
your lender, you probably won't be sued. You shouldn't receive a major tax
bill either. And the damage to your credit will not be permanent or
insurmountable.

Let's look at these last three in order.

YOUR LENDER First off, let's define what we mean by "giving up" on your
current mortgage. It may mean trying for a short sale
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/s/short_sellin
g/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier), where the lender allows you to sell
your home for less than the mortgage amount. You may also hand over the deed
to the home in exchange for the lender agreeing not to start foreclosure
proceedings (a "deed in lieu" in industry terms). Then, there's foreclosure
itself, and the possibility that bankruptcy judges may soon have the power
to adjust the terms of primary mortgages.

That said, just because you're ineligible under the Obama plan doesn't mean
that your lender or servicer won't ultimately adjust your mortgage anyhow.
Collectively, there are enough people in trouble or under water on their
loans that they have plenty of leverage if they're willing to play chicken
with their lender and threaten to stop paying.

The problem is, the lender can play chicken, too, by threatening to come
after you for the balance of any money you owe - whether it's the difference
between what you sell the property for yourself and the remaining mortgage,
or the loan amount left over after the lender sells your property in
foreclosure.

The lender may not follow through, though. "What our membership is telling
us is that it can be cost-prohibitive to chase down a borrower who is
already in financial distress," said John Mechem, a spokesman for the
Mortgage Bankers Association. "You can't squeeze blood from a stone." They
may, however, still come after people with high incomes who walk away from
jumbo loans that are way under water or loans on investment
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/investments/index.html?inline=nyt-clas
sifier) properties.

Some states have laws that may specifically prohibit lenders from pursuing
borrowers for the balance of many mortgage loans after foreclosure, though
the particulars vary. Arizona and California are among these states,
according to Steven Bender, a professor at the University of Oregon
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/u/univers
ity_of_oregon/index.html?inline=nyt-org) School of Law. It's best to talk to
a lawyer to determine your state's rules.

In fact, if you want to be sure your lender (or a collection agency that it
may sell your loan to) won't chase you down, it's a good idea to have a
lawyer involved with any short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure itself.
"You must get the bank to agree in writing that any deficiency is waived,"
said Chip Parker, a lawyer specializing in foreclosure with Parker &
DuFresne in Jacksonville, Fla.

The biggest challenge here may simply be finding someone at the bank to
help. Having a second mortgage will also complicate matters.

YOUR TAXES You also need to consider the taxman. Often, forgiven debts are
taxable as income. Recent legislative changes, however, eliminate the
federal tax burden through 2012 on most primary residence debt that a lender
has reduced through loan restructuring or forgiven during foreclosure.

Mark Luscombe, principal analyst for CCH, a tax information service, said
that people who sell their home through a short sale or give up the deed in
lieu of foreclosure can also qualify for tax relief if they use a special
tax form, 1099-C, that reflects the amount of debt that the lender has
forgiven.

People who live in states with their own income taxes may avoid a big bill
as well. Some states, like Arizona and California, have introduced or passed
legislation that echoes the federal laws, according to the National
Conference of State Legislatures. Many others tend to mimic most or all
federal income tax laws as a general rule, according to CCH. Check with an
accountant in your state to be sure.

YOUR CREDIT A short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure itself will almost
certainly damage your credit report and score, and the black mark will last
for up to seven years. But the amount of damage it does will depend on how
much other credit trouble you've gotten yourself into with other lenders..

If you're giving up the home you own, you'll probably need to rent soon
afterward. Will landlords turn you away once they check your credit and
discover your troubled mortgage? "If it's the only thing marring their
credit, it's probably not a big issue," said Clay Powell, the director of
the Rental Property Owners Association of Michigan, who added that good
tenants could be scarce in economic environments like this one.

In fact, Todd J. Zywicki, a law professor at George Mason University,
predicted that FICO may have to adjust its credit scores
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-scores/index.html?inline
=nyt-classifier) to lessen the impact of a foreclosure or similar incident.
"It just seems obvious that a foreclosure in 2008 or 2009 doesn't have as
much information value as a foreclosure five years ago," he said. "To the
extent that foreclosure doesn't predict future behavior as much as it did in
the past, you'd expect that the FICO algorithm would change to adjust for
that."

Craig Watts, a spokesman for FICO, said that was an interesting idea. "We
try not to get involved too much in psychobabble around what is and isn't
predictive," he said. "If the numbers show that foreclosure is less
predictive, then we'll take it into account in future redevelopments of the
formula." That would take a minimum of two to three years, though.

Some lenders aren't waiting that long to initiate their own foreclosure
destigmatization programs. The Golden 1, one of the nation's largest credit
unions, now has a mortgage repair loan for people who have lost a home to
foreclosure but want to buy a new one.

It's hard to imagine that there won't be a parade of insurance
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/insurance/index.html?inline=nyt-classi
fier) companies, credit card
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-and-debit-cards/index.ht
ml?inline=nyt-classifier) issuers and mortgage lenders in Golden 1's wake,
even though Fannie Mae
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/fannie_mae/index.html
?inline=nyt-org) and Freddie Mac
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/freddie_mac/index.htm
l?inline=nyt-org) may be unwilling to guarantee the mortgages of such
borrowers for several years. In fact, Aaron Bresko, the vice president of
lending for BECU, another large credit union based in Washington State, is
putting together a panel called "How to Lend to the Newly Credit Impaired"
for a conference later this year.

"Good people have bad things happen to them, so how do you find those people
and reach out to them?" he said. "As the year progresses, it's going to be
an emerging market."

How are you handling your mortgage problems?
Write to rlieber at nytimes.com.




-----Inline Message Follows-----

Shean writes:

 

One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did is that the people that 
would come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not able 
to afford what we wanted to sell it for (which was $350-$400K)

 

There are a least of couple of us on the Forum that will agree with you
about pricing a property at 50%.  However unlogical it appears, failure is
often assigned because a Seller didn't follow the letter of the law (or
book) on that point. 

 

I use a more emotional response to the price by assigning these tags:

 

Ridiculous

Tiny

Small

Medium

Large

 

I find that if a potential buyer doesn't believe he/she has a chance at
getting the property somewhere between Tiny and Small, they feel deceived
and damaged.  And then  they believe that the property must be stigmatized
by some unknown defect or building flaw. 

 

So I think you are on the right track, Shean.  Stay away from ridiculous
(50%) pricing, and do the hard work to figure out how to get the property
into the 'tiny' range. 

 

RC Cutcher

Realtor, ABR

Austin Texas Homes, LLC

www.austintexashomes.com

512-848-4449

 

The Short Sale/Foreclosure Workshop

Trec Provider No. 0623

Course No. 7436

 

Broker Price Opinion Training

Every Friday

 



-----Inline Message Follows-----

2nd try

 

Sean writes:

One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did is that the people that 
would come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not able 
to afford what we wanted to sell it for (which was $350-$400K)

RC writes:

 

There are a least of couple of us on the Forum that will agree with you
about pricing a property at 50%.  However unlogical it appears, failure is
often assigned because a Seller didn't follow the letter of the law (or
book) on that point. 

I use a more emotional response to the price by assigning these tags:

Ridiculous
Tiny
Small
Medium
Large

I find that if a potential buyer doesn't believe he/she has a chance at
getting the property somewhere between Tiny and Small, they feel deceived
and damaged.  And then  they believe that the property must be stigmatized
by some unknown defect or building flaw. 

So I think you are on the right track, Sean.  Stay away from ridiculous
(50%) pricing, and do the hard work to figure out how to get the property
into the 'tiny' range. 

RC Cutcher
Realtor, ABR
Austin Texas Homes, LLC
www.austintexashomes.com
512-848-4449

The Short Sale/Foreclosure Workshop
Trec Provider No. 0623
Course No. 7436

Broker Price Opinion Training
Every Friday

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From wayne at capecoralinvestmentproperties.com  Sun Mar 15 11:08:26 2009
From: wayne at capecoralinvestmentproperties.com (Wayne Giese)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 11:08:26 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Second day of sale
Message-ID: <9B4670BD-47A9-4E0C-BE99-BFF0AA1C089D@capecoralinvestmentproperties.com>

I've have had 50+ call pryor to sale but have had only 15 show and 4  
bid. The highest is 10k from what I need. Do u guys think I will get  
it?  Any advice ?

Sent from my iPhone

From bill at effros.com  Sun Mar 15 11:14:55 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 11:14:55 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Second day of sale
In-Reply-To: <9B4670BD-47A9-4E0C-BE99-BFF0AA1C089D@capecoralinvestmentproperties.com>
References: <9B4670BD-47A9-4E0C-BE99-BFF0AA1C089D@capecoralinvestmentproperties.com>
Message-ID: <49BD1B6F.7040907@effros.com>

Wayne,

Play it straight -- take what you get -- few people are getting anywhere 
near this close at this time.

Keep texting to the list, and a people will reply.

There is no pattern to what will happen from this point forward, however 
you have run your sale properly, and you will get the most you can get 
on this weekend.

Continue to tell people you will sell to the high bidder without 
reservation -- if you have to start dancing on Monday morning, people on 
this list will help you call the tune.

Bill Effros
Author



Wayne Giese wrote:
> I've have had 50+ call pryor to sale but have had only 15 show and 4  
> bid. The highest is 10k from what I need. Do u guys think I will get  
> it?  Any advice ?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>   

From bill at effros.com  Sun Mar 15 11:28:36 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 11:28:36 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Pricing?
In-Reply-To: <68DB174FA8A54F308D385A3CFF4BBD6D@NSKHome>
References: <003501c9a4b6$feb99c70$0201a8c0@RCCutcher>	<49BC0B37.9080901@effros.com><8000569D82BA4B39ABF8895F77A2B5E0@NSKHome>	<49BD0741.5050909@effros.com>
	<68DB174FA8A54F308D385A3CFF4BBD6D@NSKHome>
Message-ID: <49BD1EA4.1080804@effros.com>

Naji,

OK, now I see where your advice is coming from!

Wow.

What has happened in your neck of the woods is truly unimaginable -- 
even after it's happened to you.

Please continue to give us your perspective -- you are like a distant 
early warning for the rest of us.

What will be hard for you to understand is the extent to which your 
experiences have NOT been mirrored in some other places up to this time.

Will the bank bailout spare NYC from your fate?

Will Google spare San Francisco from your fate?

Stay tuned to this channel.  Most of the country is somewhere in-between 
you and those who have not yet seen a serious price decline in the 
current value of real estate.

Is there anything that can turn things around?  Or will most communities 
approach your level of value erosion?

I gather you have been able to stay on your feet in the Real Estate 
market.  Everyone will want to know how you have managed to do that. 

Thanks for all your input -- it helps everyone if we can more clearly 
see where we all might be headed.

Bill Effros
Author



Naji wrote:
>
> Thank you Bill... I live in Central Florida, which is ground zero when 
> it comes to housing. I agree with you that the formula works for some 
> parts of the country but not others... They actually may change from 
> one neighborhood to another.
>
>  
>
> My intention is to give the average home owner the tools necessary to 
> give them an idea of what's taking place in their own area. As I said, 
> it's just a starting point or what I would call a 10,000 view from above.
>
>  
>
> After all, it's always the buyer that will determine what something is 
> worth and no amount of research, comparables, appraisal, or anything 
> else really matters. I learned that from doing many 5-day sales on 
> properties that we've owned and truly learned it when I sold my own 
> residence in August 2006 using the 5-day method: I had over 150 people 
> attend, over 40 initial bids, and sold it AS-IS by the end of the 
> weekend to a Real Estate Attorney of all people... After the sale, 
> many of the so called professionals contacted me to tell me that I 
> gave the place away and could have gotten at least 40K more for it had 
> I used their services. A year later, all of these so called pros said 
> that I really got top dollar for it.
>
>  
>
> -Naji
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* 
> 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] 
> *On Behalf Of *Bill Effros
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 15, 2009 9:49 AM
> *To:* How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Pricing?
>
>  
>
> Naji,
>
> Thanks for spending the time to provide so much detail to the list.  
> It's extremely helpful to have a concrete starting point.
>
> Where are you?
>
> Your suggested formulas may work for your region, but they are not 
> right for other places. 
>
> Still, they suggest a methodology for coming up with a starting price.
>
> The whole point of the 5-Day Method is that it is possible for anyone 
> to know in 5 days what their home is worth, and to sell it for current 
> market value.
>
> First, somehow, you must come up with some idea of how much your home 
> is currently worth.
>
> Then, if you follow my book, you offer your home for 1/2 that amount.
>
> If you get 25 responses by Friday night, you can be sure your home is 
> worth much more than the starting price.  If you don't get 25 
> responses by Friday night, you don't know anything...except that you 
> should call off your sale until you understand your local market better.
>
> Where I live, homes are still worth pretty much what they were 
> purchased for up to 2 years ago.  There are no nearby foreclosures.  
> Square footage is more important with regard to zoning permitted than 
> current home size. etc.
>
> But, at least you have provided a way for people to think that makes 
> some sense.  They MUST come up with some starting price -- some number 
> they think is possible at this time.
>
> If they offer their home at 50% of what they believe their home is 
> currently worth, and fail to get 25 responses by Friday night, they 
> can be pretty sure their valuation is too high, and they MUST go back 
> to the drawing board to figure out current market value and deal with 
> it.  They should NOT say "19 is close enough, let's just tough it out..."
>
> How they do this is up to them, but you have provided some valuable 
> mechanisms for coming up with a ballpark number that people must 
> establish before they can proceed with the 5-Day Method.
>
> Any other formula or way of coming up with a number would also be 
> helpful if anyone else has more ideas.
>
> Bill Effros
> Author
>
>
>
> Naji wrote:
>
> Factors to use when pricing your home:
>
>  
>
>    1. If you purchased your home during the bubble (last 5 - 7 Years),
>       you're SOL... The home is not worth anything close to what you
>       think its worth. Expect to do a short sale or walk away from it.
>    2. If you've owned your home for a while:
>          1. Get the last 3-5 sales in your neighborhood or within ?
>             mile of your home for the last 3 months. Figure out the
>             Price Per Square foot and apply to your home... This is
>             just to give you an idea/starting point... Sale prices are
>             not accurate in many cases due to seller concessions,
>             giveaways, and other costs that are lumped in the sale price.
>          2. Find out how many foreclosures/bank owned properties are
>             in your neighborhood or within ? mile of your home... This
>             will give you an idea of what the distressed properties
>             nearby are going for to see what you're competing against
>          3. Also, see what's on the market in your neighborhood or
>             within ? mile of your home and figure out the average
>             asking price per square foot. Again to see what others are
>             asking for their homes... This again is also to see what
>             others are "hoping" to get for their property
>          4. If you are the first owner of the house, multiply your
>             original purchase price by 3%-5% compounded annually. If
>             you're not the first owner, find out what the first owner
>             paid for the property and run the numbers accordingly...
>             For example, if you or the first home owner purchased the
>             home in 1990 for 100K, 3% appreciation over the last 19
>             years = $175,350, 4% = $210,685, 5% = $252,695
>
>  
>
> This information should at least give you a range of what your home 
> "should" be worth in a normal market... If the number you're expecting 
> is much higher than what the data indicates, then you need to get 
> realistic or plan on staying in the home until the tide shifts... in 
> this case is at least 10 years.
>
>  
>
> -Naji
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* 
> 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> <mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com> 
> [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] 
> *On Behalf Of *Bill Effros
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 14, 2009 3:53 PM
> *To:* How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Pricing?
>
>  
>
> OK,
>
> Here we go again.
>
> RC Cutcher is a real estate professional in the market every day.  He 
> actually knows what homes are selling for in his area, and is 
> constantly buying and selling homes for his own account.
>
> RC Cutcher is NOT a private home seller.
>
> Private home owners know what they paid for their homes, a short while 
> or a long while ago, and little else.
>
> Brokers don't have a clue, -- they told you your home was worth what 
> you paid when you bought it.  Now they are telling you they can't sell 
> it for that amount, but if you list with them, maybe they can find you 
> a buyer sometime in the future for some amount they have imagined out 
> of thin air.
>
> Here's what I'm saying:
>
> Take the number you think your home is currently worth -- based on any 
> factors you choose to use -- and TEST THAT NUMBER BEFORE WASTING ANY 
> MORE TIME OR MONEY!
>
> You test by offering your home for just 3 days in the best media you 
> can think of in your region.
>
> If you get 25 responses by Friday night you can know that your home is 
> worth substantially more than the advertised price at the current 
> time.  It could be worth twice as much as the advertised price.  It 
> could be worth a little less.  It could be worth a little more.  But 
> you can be certain that the advertised price was EXTREMELY ATTRACTIVE 
> to a large number of people looking to buy homes at the present time.
>
> That's what you know.  Nothing more.  Nothing less.
>
> Now, if you start fudging around with your starting price, or the 
> number of responses you get...you don't know anything for sure...and 
> in my humble opinion you are looking for failure if you proceed with a 
> 5-Day Sale without really knowing if your starting price is wildly 
> below the price you can expect to get.
>
> When RC runs 5-Day Sales he has many additional properties for sale.  
> If he ropes them in on one price and sells a different home for a 
> different price, of course many participants accuse him of a bait and 
> switch, because that's exactly what he has done.
>
> But that is not what private home sellers are doing, at all. 
>
> When private home sellers sell their homes using the 5-Day Method 
> properly (start at an honest 50% -- take the high bid) nobody is mad 
> at them.  People who don't have the money are grateful for being 
> treated like everyone else, and being allowed to inspect a fine home 
> slightly beyond their means.  They only get mad if you treat them 
> differently from anybody else, or insult their ability to ever own 
> your home.
>
> People who have the means to afford the house know they have paid a 
> fair price at the current time.
>
> The formulas presented in the book have been developed over 20 years 
> of trial and error.  They work in good times.   They work in bad 
> times.  They work more often for more people than any other formulas 
> I've been asked to consider.
>
> Don't re-invent this wheel.  Don't listen to the advice of people 
> whose circumstances are significantly different from your own.
>
> Bill Effros
> Author
>
>
>
>
>
> RC Cutcher wrote:
>
> 2nd try
>
>  
>
> Sean writes:
>
> One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did is that the people that
> would come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not able
> to afford what we wanted to sell it for (which was $350-$400K)
>
> RC writes:
>
>  
>
> There are a least of couple of us on the Forum that will agree with 
> you about pricing a property at 50%.  However unlogical it appears, 
> failure is often assigned because a Seller didn't follow the letter of 
> the law (or book) on that point.
>
> I use a more emotional response to the price by assigning these tags:
>
> Ridiculous
> Tiny
> Small
> Medium
> Large
>
> I find that if a potential buyer doesn't believe he/she has a chance 
> at getting the property somewhere between Tiny and Small, they feel 
> deceived and damaged.  And then  they believe that the property must 
> be stigmatized by some unknown defect or building flaw.
>
> So I think you are on the right track, Sean.  Stay away from 
> ridiculous (50%) pricing, and do the hard work to figure out how to 
> get the property into the 'tiny' range.
>
> RC Cutcher
> Realtor, ABR
> Austin Texas Homes, LLC
> www.austintexashomes.com <http://www.austintexashomes.com>
> 512-848-4449
>
> The Short Sale/Foreclosure Workshop
> Trec Provider No. 0623
> Course No. 7436
>
> Broker Price Opinion Training
> Every Friday
>
>  
>  
>  
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>  
>  
>  
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
>  
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>  
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
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From glendav24 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 15 19:43:17 2009
From: glendav24 at yahoo.com (V Glenda)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 16:43:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [5-DayForum] 5 Day sale in Manhattan
In-Reply-To: <mailman.10.1237132806.3275.5-dayforum@mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
References: <mailman.10.1237132806.3275.5-dayforum@mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Message-ID: <166491.53860.qm@web112219.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Thanks for the feedback, Bill.  Point well taken regarding the pricing issue as well.  I guess, one way to find out is really to go through the 5-day sale and see for myself.

On another note,  someone contacted me regarding helping me prequalify a buyer once we agreed on the price...sounds like a closer.  He is charging $1,500 payable once we close with the buyer..good idea or bad idea to enlist his service?  Do you have any lawyer you would recommend who you worked with in the Manhattan area to help in closing a 5 day sale?



________________________________
From: "5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com" <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 12:00:06 PM
Subject: 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 21

Send 5-DayForum mailing list submissions to
    5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com

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    http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of 5-DayForum digest..."
Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Realtor Attendance (Bill Effros)
   2. Re: 5 Day Sale in Manhattan (Bill Effros)
   3. Re: Pricing (Bill Effros)
   4. Re: Pricing? (Naji)
   5. Re: Realtor Attendance (Naji)
   6. Re: Pricing (Naji)
   7. Second day of sale (Wayne Giese)
   8. Re: Second day of sale (Bill Effros)
   9. Re: Pricing? (Bill Effros)


-----Inline Message Follows-----

Kyle,

Pre-sale jitters.

If you offer your home for $49,500 you'll get 25 responses.  Military
5-Day Sales have been extremely successful because it's so easy to
explain to everyone why you are doing what you are doing, and many have
heard of 5-Day Sales before.

Everyone will know if a $100,000 home is being offered for $50,000 --
and they will all know you are really going to go through with it
because you have to.

Buyers' Brokers will show up with their clients and they will push the
value of your home to the highest possible level.  They will be paid by
their clients, and they won't collect anything unless they get their
clients to bid more than any other buyer is willing to pay.  

Have extra copies of the book on hand -- you should get a very large
turnout and you may not be able to spend as much time as you need
explaining the 5-Day Sale over and over.  Tab the buyer's section of
the book so new buyers can comfortably get into the bidding and take it
to the highest point they are prepared to pay.

Start at a "Magic Number" -- $49,500 -- not an oddball number.

Play straight -- you'll get the best possible price -- you'll be able
to buy another home at an equivalent price if you choose to do so.

Bill Effros
Author

Kyle Vandegriff wrote: 
Hello all.  I?m
wondering if it is advisable to try to entice realtors to attend my
5-day with clients looking to buy the type of house I?m offering.  I know I?m not supposed to protect the broker, but
I feel this might help to get the real buyers to the house. The only
reason I?m considering this action is because I?ve painted myself into
a corner.  I really really need to sell my house
the weekend I?m offering it because of a forced move (military).  I live in a fairly rural and economically depressed
town in south Texas and am concerned about the lack of volume of home
sales in the area over the past year.
 
In my situation I feel it might be a
good tradeoff to potentially have to pay a small commission to make the
sale happen vs. certainly having to pay a large one if the real buyers
don?t turn out.  Or is this just normal pre-sale
jitters and I should stick to the book?
 
What sort of minimum commission or
flat fee would be sufficient to entice them to attend (about a $100,000
house)? 
 
Thanks!
 
-Kyle
 

________________________________

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5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum 

-----Inline Message Follows-----

Forget the packet.

Locate the buyer first.  Find out what your Coop is worth.

We all know how coop boards work around here, and that a sale is never
a sale until the board OKs it.

Just run the sale, then go through the normal closing routines
including coop packets and all the rest.

If the Board turns the buyer down, run another 5 Day sale.  You will
get exactly the same price you got the first time.  Many of the same
people will bid.  

Keep doing it until the board finally accepts someone -- although I
would guess it is easier to get people though when there are fewer
buyers than when there are more buyers than co-ops.

Bill Effros
Author

V Glenda wrote: 
Thank you all for the feedback regarding the length of
advertising...I am moving on to the next topic regarding the sale.  I
am specifically unclear how and when in the process do I introduce the
Coop Board packet that a buyer will have to complete?  Bill, when you
sold the coop properties in Manhattan how did you do it? 

Thanks,
Glenda






________________________________
From: "5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com" <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Sent: Saturday, March
14, 2009 12:00:11 PM
Subject: 5-DayForum
Digest, Vol 24, Issue 19

Send 5-DayForum mailing list submissions to
    5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com

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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of 5-DayForum digest..."
Today's Topics:

  1. Re: 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 18 (Gary St. Armand)
  2.  Pricing? (Sean Folkson)
  3. Re: 5 Day Sale in Manhattan (kelsey uh)
  4. Re: 5 Day Sale in Manhattan (Kyle Cascioli)
  5. Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan (Bill Effros)
  6.  Pricing? (RC Cutcher)
  7.    Pricing? (RC Cutcher)


-----Inline Message Follows-----


Bill,
 
Have you ever written an article on using your method to
rent an apartment.
I want my property manager to do the same thing, because I
have 5 vacancies
in a 12-unit bldg. I don't know if she'd actually take
time to read your book to follow the directions even though it's fairly
straight forward.


-Gary
I--- On Fri, 3/13/09, 5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com> wrote:


From: 5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Subject: 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 18
To: 5-dayforum at mailman..howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Date: Friday, March 13, 2009, 4:00 PM


Send 5-DayForum mailing list
submissions to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: 5 Day Sale in Manhattan (Bill Effros)

_______________________________________________
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http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days..com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
 

-----Inline Message Follows-----

In this case, the starting number shouldn't matter too much Lance.

One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did is that the people that
would come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not able to
afford what we wanted to sell it for (which was $350-$400K)

We had buyers that loved the house, but were only approved up into the
$320K range.  We had great response to the ad...over 100 people came
over the 2 days, and bids got up to $326,500.  All the buyers told me
they were really looking for something cheaper, but they fell in love
with our place and went higher than they even wanted to.

We chose not to sell, listed with a realtor, and ultimately got $358K
for the house, 2-3 months later.  That sale was this past july.  When I
do my next one in a month or two, I will be "tweaking the system", I'm
sure much to Bill's dismay.  I can afford to do that, because on this
property I'll be selling, I don't really care if it sells or not.  If
it doesn't sell, my wife and I will move into it.

What I'll be doing is listing it for the lowest price we'd accept. 
This will help ensure that any potential buyers who visit can afford to
pay what we want for the house.  in this day and age of internet search
and filters, listing at 50% of what you want might prevent you from
having the right buyers find your property.  If you were looking for a
house, you're looking in a price range.  If you enter a price range of
$150-$200K, you can't afford to pay the $350-$400K the 5 day seller
wants.  And, if you're a consumer looking to spend $350-$400K for a
house, you'll likely never even see the ad for the house listed at
$174,500.  And, if you do, you'll likely assume it's a dump and not
something worth looking at..

sean




-----Inline Message Follows-----

O.K. Thank you

On 3/12/09, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
wrote:
> Kelsey,
>
> You can't get legal advice here -- we're not lawyers.
>
> 5-Day Sales work best when the owner runs them. Other people can
do it,
> but if you have been following this Forum of late you read the
anger of
> many people toward real estate professionals who are widely blamed
for
> profiting from the bubble that preceded this bust.
>
> You can do all the work for Glenda, but she will get a higher
price if
> she does it herself.
>
> Bill Effros
> Author
>
>
>
> kelsey uh wrote:
>>
>> I have been helping Glenda with marketing. I am her friend.
>>
>> I have a real estate agent license. If Glenda goes on business
trip on
>> the inspection days, can I do the auction and round robin for
her? Is
>> it legal in NY state?
>>
>> Your response will be highly appreciated, as I have no time to
check
>> with county clerks and lawyers.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Kelsey
>>
>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> 5-DayForum mailing list
>> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>
>



-----Inline Message Follows-----

Agreed!
 
That's how we do it with with our seller and builder platforms and it
works well.
 
Many buyers today want direct contact with sellers and builders.
 
Best to all, 
 
Kyle Cascioli
www.AuctionBySeller.com 
www.AuctionByBuilder.com 
 
> Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:27:36 -0400
> From: kelseyuh at gmail.com
> To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] 5 Day Sale in Manhattan
> 
> O.K. Thank you
> 
> On 3/12/09, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> > Kelsey,
> >
> > You can't get legal advice here -- we're not lawyers.
> >
> > 5-Day Sales work best when the owner runs them. Other people
can do it,
> > but if you have been following this Forum of late you read
the anger of
> > many people toward real estate professionals who are widely
blamed for
> > profiting from the bubble that preceded this bust.
> >
> > You can do all the work for Glenda, but she will get a higher
price if
> > she does it herself.
> >
> > Bill Effros
> > Author
> >
> >
> >
> > kelsey uh wrote:
> >>
> >> I have been helping Glenda with marketing. I am her
friend..
> >>
> >> I have a real estate agent license. If Glenda goes on
business trip on
> >> the inspection days, can I do the auction and round robin
for her? Is
> >> it legal in NY state?
> >>
> >> Your response will be highly appreciated, as I have no
time to check
> >> with county clerks and lawyers.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Kelsey
> >>
> >>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> 5-DayForum mailing list
> >> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> >> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> >>
> >
> _______________________________________________
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> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
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Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan


March 14, 2009
Your Money
By RON LIEBER (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/l/ron_lieber/index.html?inline=nyt-per)

If you?re among the millions of people who will not qualify for the
Obama administration?s program to help troubled homeowners, you?re
probably wondering what you?re supposed to do now.

Perhaps you no longer have enough income to pay your loans (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier).
Or you can afford the payments but don?t qualify for refinancing under
the new plan because the value of your home is too far below the
balance of the loan. If you?re far enough underwater, you?re probably
questioning the wisdom of writing a monthly check on a place that may
take 10 or 15 years to get back to the value it had two or three years
ago. It isn?t easy to come up with the answer, and if you have moral
misgivings about not making good on your mortgage (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/mortgages/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier),
a religious officiant may offer as much useful guidance as a financial
planner (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/planning/financial-planners/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier).

In an economic environment like this one, however, the consequences of
giving up on your mortgage may not be as painful as they were a few
years ago. Yes, it?s almost always preferable to negotiate a better
deal on your existing mortgage than to walk away. But if you can?t work
things out with your lender, you probably won?t be sued. You shouldn?t
receive a major tax bill either. And the damage to your credit will not
be permanent or insurmountable.

Let?s look at these last three in order.

YOUR LENDER First off, let?s define what we mean by ?giving up? on your
current mortgage. It may mean trying for a short sale (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/s/short_selling/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier),
where the lender allows you to sell your home for less than the
mortgage amount. You may also hand over the deed to the home in
exchange for the lender agreeing not to start foreclosure proceedings
(a ?deed in lieu? in industry terms). Then, there?s foreclosure itself,
and the possibility that bankruptcy judges may soon have the power to
adjust the terms of primary mortgages.

That said, just because you?re ineligible under the Obama plan doesn?t
mean that your lender or servicer won?t ultimately adjust your mortgage
anyhow. Collectively, there are enough people in trouble or under water
on their loans that they have plenty of leverage if they?re willing to
play chicken with their lender and threaten to stop paying.

The problem is, the lender can play chicken, too, by threatening to
come after you for the balance of any money you owe ? whether it?s the
difference between what you sell the property for yourself and the
remaining mortgage, or the loan amount left over after the lender sells
your property in foreclosure.

The lender may not follow through, though. ?What our membership is
telling us is that it can be cost-prohibitive to chase down a borrower
who is already in financial distress,? said John Mechem, a spokesman
for the Mortgage Bankers Association. ?You can?t squeeze blood from a
stone.? They may, however, still come after people with high incomes
who walk away from jumbo loans that are way under water or loans on
investment (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/investments/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
properties.

Some states have laws that may specifically prohibit lenders from
pursuing borrowers for the balance of many mortgage loans after
foreclosure, though the particulars vary. Arizona and California are
among these states, according to Steven Bender, a professor at the
University of Oregon (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/u/university_of_oregon/index..html?inline=nyt-org)
School of Law. It?s best to talk to a lawyer to determine your state?s
rules.

In fact, if you want to be sure your lender (or a collection agency
that it may sell your loan to) won?t chase you down, it?s a good idea
to have a lawyer involved with any short sale, deed in lieu or
foreclosure itself. ?You must get the bank to agree in writing that any
deficiency is waived,? said Chip Parker, a lawyer specializing in
foreclosure with Parker & DuFresne in Jacksonville, Fla.

The biggest challenge here may simply be finding someone at the bank to
help. Having a second mortgage will also complicate matters.

YOUR TAXES You also need to consider the taxman. Often, forgiven debts
are taxable as income. Recent legislative changes, however, eliminate
the federal tax burden through 2012 on most primary residence debt that
a lender has reduced through loan restructuring or forgiven during
foreclosure.

Mark Luscombe, principal analyst for CCH, a tax information service,
said that people who sell their home through a short sale or give up
the deed in lieu of foreclosure can also qualify for tax relief if they
use a special tax form, 1099-C, that reflects the amount of debt that
the lender has forgiven.

People who live in states with their own income taxes may avoid a big
bill as well. Some states, like Arizona and California, have introduced
or passed legislation that echoes the federal laws, according to the
National Conference of State Legislatures. Many others tend to mimic
most or all federal income tax laws as a general rule, according to
CCH. Check with an accountant in your state to be sure.

YOUR CREDIT A short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure itself will
almost certainly damage your credit report and score, and the black
mark will last for up to seven years. But the amount of damage it does
will depend on how much other credit trouble you?ve gotten yourself
into with other lenders..

If you?re giving up the home you own, you?ll probably need to rent soon
afterward. Will landlords turn you away once they check your credit and
discover your troubled mortgage? ?If it?s the only thing marring their
credit, it?s probably not a big issue,? said Clay Powell, the director
of the Rental Property Owners Association of Michigan, who added that
good tenants could be scarce in economic environments like this one.

In fact, Todd J. Zywicki, a law professor at George Mason University,
predicted that FICO may have to adjust its credit scores (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-scores/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
to lessen the impact of a foreclosure or similar incident. ?It just
seems obvious that a foreclosure in 2008 or 2009 doesn?t have as much
information value as a foreclosure five years ago,? he said. ?To the
extent that foreclosure doesn?t predict future behavior as much as it
did in the past, you?d expect that the FICO algorithm would change to
adjust for that.?

Craig Watts, a spokesman for FICO, said that was an interesting idea.
?We try not to get involved too much in psychobabble around what is and
isn?t predictive,? he said. ?If the numbers show that foreclosure is
less predictive, then we?ll take it into account in future
redevelopments of the formula.? That would take a minimum of two to
three years, though.

Some lenders aren?t waiting that long to initiate their own foreclosure
destigmatization programs. The Golden 1, one of the nation?s largest
credit unions, now has a mortgage repair loan for people who have lost
a home to foreclosure but want to buy a new one.

It?s hard to imagine that there won?t be a parade of insurance (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/insurance/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
companies, credit card (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-and-debit-cards/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
issuers and mortgage lenders in Golden 1?s wake, even though Fannie Mae
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/fannie_mae/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
and Freddie Mac (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/freddie_mac/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
may be unwilling to guarantee the mortgages of such borrowers for
several years. In fact, Aaron Bresko, the vice president of lending for
BECU, another large credit union based in Washington State, is putting
together a panel called ?How to Lend to the Newly Credit Impaired? for
a conference later this year.

?Good people have bad things happen to them, so how do you find those
people and reach out to them?? he said. ?As the year progresses, it?s
going to be an emerging market.?

How are you handling your mortgage problems?
Write to rlieber at nytimes.com.




-----Inline Message Follows-----


Shean writes:
 
One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did
is that the people that 
would come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not able 
to afford what we wanted to sell it for (which was $350-$400K)
 
There are a least of couple of
us on the Forum that will agree with you about pricing a property at
50%.  However unlogical it appears, failure is often assigned because a
Seller didn't follow the letter of the law (or book) on that point. 
 
I use a more emotional
response to the price by assigning these tags:
 
Ridiculous
Tiny
Small
Medium
Large
 
I find that if a potential
buyer doesn't believe he/she has a chance at getting the property
somewhere between Tiny and Small, they feel deceived and damaged.  And
then  they believe that the property must be stigmatized by some
unknown defect or building flaw. 
 
So I think you are on the
right track, Shean.  Stay away from ridiculous (50%) pricing, and do
the hard work to figure out how to get the property into the 'tiny'
range. 
 
RC Cutcher
Realtor, ABR
Austin Texas Homes, LLC
www.austintexashomes.com
512-848-4449
 
The Short Sale/Foreclosure
Workshop
Trec Provider No. 0623
Course No. 7436
 
Broker Price Opinion Training
Every Friday


-----Inline Message Follows-----


2nd try
 
Sean writes:

One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did is that the people that 
would come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not able 
to afford what we wanted to sell it for (which was $350-$400K)

RC writes:
 
There are a least of couple of us on the
Forum that will agree with you about pricing a property at 50%. 
However unlogical it appears, failure is often assigned because a
Seller didn't follow the letter of the law (or book) on that point. 

I use a more emotional response to the price by assigning these tags:

Ridiculous
Tiny
Small
Medium
Large

I find that if a potential buyer doesn't believe he/she has a chance at
getting the property somewhere between Tiny and Small, they feel
deceived and damaged.  And then  they believe that the property must be
stigmatized by some unknown defect or building flaw. 

So I think you are on the right track, Sean.  Stay away from ridiculous
(50%) pricing, and do the hard work to figure out how to get the
property into the 'tiny' range. 

RC Cutcher
Realtor, ABR
Austin Texas Homes, LLC
www.austintexashomes.com
512-848-4449

The Short Sale/Foreclosure Workshop
Trec Provider No. 0623
Course No. 7436

Broker Price Opinion Training
Every Friday

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________________________________

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-----Inline Message Follows-----

Glenda,

Let's talk real numbers here.

Co-op prices in NYC are going down, just like the rest of the
nation--people are losing their jobs in massive numbers, and those rich
kids can't afford the Manhattan co-ops anymore -- there is no one to
sell to at the old prices.

YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GET THE PRICE YOU WANT AT THIS TIME NO MATTER WHAT
YOU DO!

Don't start the 5-Day method if you are not really prepared to follow
through.  Sean was offered a lower price because buyers KNEW he wasn't
really going to sell at the high bid price.  When it becomes clear the
seller isn't really going to follow through, the buyers leave without
revealing their top bid.

If you buy Sean's story, why is he using the 5-Day Method again?  If
you believe a Real Estate Broker can get you more 2-3 months from now,
why not offer your home through a Real Estate Broker for 2-3 months and
see if you get what you want, or not.  You can always run a 5-Day Sale.

You are setting yourself up for failure.  You are tweaking something
you don't understand.  This is not going to work!

Bill Effros
Author




V Glenda wrote: 
Hi!  All-
Maybe I am just getting the cold feet...our 5 day sale is
scheduled for this coming weekend and I just read Sean's comment about
pricing...I am also concerned that those who will show up at our open
house cannot really afford the price we want and worst of all will not
qualify to get through the coop board for the same reasons Sean
mentioned.  

In the event that we don't get the price we want and end up not
selling, I am wondering how Sean told the highest bidder of his
decision not to sell and how did the buyer take it?  

Thanks,
Glenda



________________________________
From: "5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com" <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Sent: Saturday, March
14, 2009 12:00:11 PM
Subject: 5-DayForum
Digest, Vol 24, Issue 19

Send 5-DayForum mailing list submissions to
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or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of 5-DayForum digest..."
Today's Topics:

  1. Re: 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 18 (Gary St. Armand)
  2.  Pricing? (Sean Folkson)
  3. Re: 5 Day Sale in Manhattan (kelsey uh)
  4. Re: 5 Day Sale in Manhattan (Kyle Cascioli)
  5. Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan (Bill Effros)
  6.  Pricing? (RC Cutcher)
  7.    Pricing? (RC Cutcher)


-----Inline Message Follows-----


Bill,
 
Have you ever written an article on using your method to
rent an apartment.
I want my property manager to do the same thing, because I
have 5 vacancies
in a 12-unit bldg. I don't know if she'd actually take
time to read your book to follow the directions even though it's fairly
straight forward.


-Gary
I--- On Fri, 3/13/09, 5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com> wrote:


From: 5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Subject: 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 18
To: 5-dayforum at mailman..howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Date: Friday, March 13, 2009, 4:00 PM


Send 5-DayForum mailing list
submissions to
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To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of 5-DayForum digest..."

Today's Topics:

   1. Re: 5 Day Sale in Manhattan (Bill Effros)

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-----Inline Message Follows-----

In this case, the starting number shouldn't matter too much Lance.

One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did is that the people that
would come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not able to
afford what we wanted to sell it for (which was $350-$400K)

We had buyers that loved the house, but were only approved up into the
$320K range.  We had great response to the ad....over 100 people came
over the 2 days, and bids got up to $326,500.  All the buyers told me
they were really looking for something cheaper, but they fell in love
with our place and went higher than they even wanted to.

We chose not to sell, listed with a realtor, and ultimately got $358K
for the house, 2-3 months later.  That sale was this past july.  When I
do my next one in a month or two, I will be "tweaking the system", I'm
sure much to Bill's dismay.  I can afford to do that, because on this
property I'll be selling, I don't really care if it sells or not.  If
it doesn't sell, my wife and I will move into it.

What I'll be doing is listing it for the lowest price we'd accept. 
This will help ensure that any potential buyers who visit can afford to
pay what we want for the house.  in this day and age of internet search
and filters, listing at 50% of what you want might prevent you from
having the right buyers find your property.  If you were looking for a
house, you're looking in a price range.  If you enter a price range of
$150-$200K, you can't afford to pay the $350-$400K the 5 day seller
wants.  And, if you're a consumer looking to spend $350-$400K for a
house, you'll likely never even see the ad for the house listed at
$174,500.  And, if you do, you'll likely assume it's a dump and not
something worth looking at.

sean




-----Inline Message Follows-----

O.K. Thank you

On 3/12/09, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
wrote:
> Kelsey,
>
> You can't get legal advice here -- we're not lawyers.
>
> 5-Day Sales work best when the owner runs them. Other people can
do it,
> but if you have been following this Forum of late you read the
anger of
> many people toward real estate professionals who are widely blamed
for
> profiting from the bubble that preceded this bust.
>
> You can do all the work for Glenda, but she will get a higher
price if
> she does it herself.
>
> Bill Effros
> Author
>
>
>
> kelsey uh wrote:
>>
>> I have been helping Glenda with marketing. I am her friend.
>>
>> I have a real estate agent license. If Glenda goes on business
trip on
>> the inspection days, can I do the auction and round robin for
her? Is
>> it legal in NY state?
>>
>> Your response will be highly appreciated, as I have no time to
check
>> with county clerks and lawyers.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Kelsey
>>
>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> 5-DayForum mailing list
>> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>
>



-----Inline Message Follows-----

Agreed!
 
That's how we do it with with our seller and builder platforms and it
works well.
 
Many buyers today want direct contact with sellers and builders.
 
Best to all, 
 
Kyle Cascioli
www.AuctionBySeller.com 
www.AuctionByBuilder.com 
 
> Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:27:36 -0400
> From: kelseyuh at gmail.com
> To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] 5 Day Sale in Manhattan
> 
> O.K. Thank you
> 
> On 3/12/09, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> > Kelsey,
> >
> > You can't get legal advice here -- we're not lawyers.
> >
> > 5-Day Sales work best when the owner runs them. Other people
can do it,
> > but if you have been following this Forum of late you read
the anger of
> > many people toward real estate professionals who are widely
blamed for
> > profiting from the bubble that preceded this bust.
> >
> > You can do all the work for Glenda, but she will get a higher
price if
> > she does it herself.
> >
> > Bill Effros
> > Author
> >
> >
> >
> > kelsey uh wrote:
> >>
> >> I have been helping Glenda with marketing. I am her
friend.
> >>
> >> I have a real estate agent license. If Glenda goes on
business trip on
> >> the inspection days, can I do the auction and round robin
for her? Is
> >> it legal in NY state?
> >>
> >> Your response will be highly appreciated, as I have no
time to check
> >> with county clerks and lawyers.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Kelsey
> >>
> >>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> 5-DayForum mailing list
> >> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> >> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> >>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

________________________________
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how. 

-----Inline Message Follows-----

Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan


March 14, 2009
Your Money
By RON LIEBER (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/l/ron_lieber/index.html?inline=nyt-per)

If you?re among the millions of people who will not qualify for the
Obama administration?s program to help troubled homeowners, you?re
probably wondering what you?re supposed to do now.

Perhaps you no longer have enough income to pay your loans (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier).
Or you can afford the payments but don?t qualify for refinancing under
the new plan because the value of your home is too far below the
balance of the loan. If you?re far enough underwater, you?re probably
questioning the wisdom of writing a monthly check on a place that may
take 10 or 15 years to get back to the value it had two or three years
ago. It isn?t easy to come up with the answer, and if you have moral
misgivings about not making good on your mortgage (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/mortgages/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier),
a religious officiant may offer as much useful guidance as a financial
planner (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/planning/financial-planners/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier).

In an economic environment like this one, however, the consequences of
giving up on your mortgage may not be as painful as they were a few
years ago. Yes, it?s almost always preferable to negotiate a better
deal on your existing mortgage than to walk away. But if you can?t work
things out with your lender, you probably won?t be sued. You shouldn?t
receive a major tax bill either.. And the damage to your credit will not
be permanent or insurmountable.

Let?s look at these last three in order.

YOUR LENDER First off, let?s define what we mean by ?giving up? on your
current mortgage. It may mean trying for a short sale (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/s/short_selling/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier),
where the lender allows you to sell your home for less than the
mortgage amount. You may also hand over the deed to the home in
exchange for the lender agreeing not to start foreclosure proceedings
(a ?deed in lieu? in industry terms). Then, there?s foreclosure itself,
and the possibility that bankruptcy judges may soon have the power to
adjust the terms of primary mortgages.

That said, just because you?re ineligible under the Obama plan doesn?t
mean that your lender or servicer won?t ultimately adjust your mortgage
anyhow. Collectively, there are enough people in trouble or under water
on their loans that they have plenty of leverage if they?re willing to
play chicken with their lender and threaten to stop paying.

The problem is, the lender can play chicken, too, by threatening to
come after you for the balance of any money you owe ? whether it?s the
difference between what you sell the property for yourself and the
remaining mortgage, or the loan amount left over after the lender sells
your property in foreclosure.

The lender may not follow through, though. ?What our membership is
telling us is that it can be cost-prohibitive to chase down a borrower
who is already in financial distress,? said John Mechem, a spokesman
for the Mortgage Bankers Association. ?You can?t squeeze blood from a
stone.? They may, however, still come after people with high incomes
who walk away from jumbo loans that are way under water or loans on
investment (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/investments/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
properties.

Some states have laws that may specifically prohibit lenders from
pursuing borrowers for the balance of many mortgage loans after
foreclosure, though the particulars vary. Arizona and California are
among these states, according to Steven Bender, a professor at the
University of Oregon (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/u/university_of_oregon/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
School of Law. It?s best to talk to a lawyer to determine your state?s
rules.

In fact, if you want to be sure your lender (or a collection agency
that it may sell your loan to) won?t chase you down, it?s a good idea
to have a lawyer involved with any short sale, deed in lieu or
foreclosure itself. ?You must get the bank to agree in writing that any
deficiency is waived,? said Chip Parker, a lawyer specializing in
foreclosure with Parker & DuFresne in Jacksonville, Fla.

The biggest challenge here may simply be finding someone at the bank to
help. Having a second mortgage will also complicate matters.

YOUR TAXES You also need to consider the taxman. Often, forgiven debts
are taxable as income. Recent legislative changes, however, eliminate
the federal tax burden through 2012 on most primary residence debt that
a lender has reduced through loan restructuring or forgiven during
foreclosure.

Mark Luscombe, principal analyst for CCH, a tax information service,
said that people who sell their home through a short sale or give up
the deed in lieu of foreclosure can also qualify for tax relief if they
use a special tax form, 1099-C, that reflects the amount of debt that
the lender has forgiven.

People who live in states with their own income taxes may avoid a big
bill as well. Some states, like Arizona and California, have introduced
or passed legislation that echoes the federal laws, according to the
National Conference of State Legislatures. Many others tend to mimic
most or all federal income tax laws as a general rule, according to
CCH. Check with an accountant in your state to be sure.

YOUR CREDIT A short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure itself will
almost certainly damage your credit report and score, and the black
mark will last for up to seven years. But the amount of damage it does
will depend on how much other credit trouble you?ve gotten yourself
into with other lenders..

If you?re giving up the home you own, you?ll probably need to rent soon
afterward. Will landlords turn you away once they check your credit and
discover your troubled mortgage? ?If it?s the only thing marring their
credit, it?s probably not a big issue,? said Clay Powell, the director
of the Rental Property Owners Association of Michigan, who added that
good tenants could be scarce in economic environments like this one.

In fact, Todd J. Zywicki, a law professor at George Mason University,
predicted that FICO may have to adjust its credit scores (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-scores/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
to lessen the impact of a foreclosure or similar incident. ?It just
seems obvious that a foreclosure in 2008 or 2009 doesn?t have as much
information value as a foreclosure five years ago,? he said. ?To the
extent that foreclosure doesn?t predict future behavior as much as it
did in the past, you?d expect that the FICO algorithm would change to
adjust for that.?

Craig Watts, a spokesman for FICO, said that was an interesting idea.
?We try not to get involved too much in psychobabble around what is and
isn?t predictive,? he said. ?If the numbers show that foreclosure is
less predictive, then we?ll take it into account in future
redevelopments of the formula.? That would take a minimum of two to
three years, though.

Some lenders aren?t waiting that long to initiate their own foreclosure
destigmatization programs. The Golden 1, one of the nation?s largest
credit unions, now has a mortgage repair loan for people who have lost
a home to foreclosure but want to buy a new one.

It?s hard to imagine that there won?t be a parade of insurance (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/insurance/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
companies, credit card (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-and-debit-cards/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
issuers and mortgage lenders in Golden 1?s wake, even though Fannie Mae
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/fannie_mae/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
and Freddie Mac (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/freddie_mac/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
may be unwilling to guarantee the mortgages of such borrowers for
several years. In fact, Aaron Bresko, the vice president of lending for
BECU, another large credit union based in Washington State, is putting
together a panel called ?How to Lend to the Newly Credit Impaired? for
a conference later this year.

?Good people have bad things happen to them, so how do you find those
people and reach out to them?? he said. ?As the year progresses, it?s
going to be an emerging market.?

How are you handling your mortgage problems?
Write to rlieber at nytimes.com.




-----Inline Message Follows-----


Shean writes:
 
One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did
is that the people that 
would come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not able 
to afford what we wanted to sell it for (which was $350-$400K)
 
There are a least of couple of
us on the Forum that will agree with you about pricing a property at
50%.  However unlogical it appears, failure is often assigned because a
Seller didn't follow the letter of the law (or book) on that point. 
 
I use a more emotional
response to the price by assigning these tags:
 
Ridiculous
Tiny
Small
Medium
Large
 
I find that if a potential
buyer doesn't believe he/she has a chance at getting the property
somewhere between Tiny and Small, they feel deceived and damaged.  And
then  they believe that the property must be stigmatized by some
unknown defect or building flaw. 
 
So I think you are on the
right track, Shean.  Stay away from ridiculous (50%) pricing, and do
the hard work to figure out how to get the property into the 'tiny'
range. 
 
RC Cutcher
Realtor, ABR
Austin Texas Homes, LLC
www.austintexashomes.com
512-848-4449
 
The Short Sale/Foreclosure
Workshop
Trec Provider No. 0623
Course No. 7436
 
Broker Price Opinion Training
Every Friday


-----Inline Message Follows-----


2nd try
 
Sean writes:

One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did is that the people that 
would come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not able 
to afford what we wanted to sell it for (which was $350-$400K)

RC writes:
 
There are a least of couple of us on the
Forum that will agree with you about pricing a property at 50%. 
However unlogical it appears, failure is often assigned because a
Seller didn't follow the letter of the law (or book) on that point. 

I use a more emotional response to the price by assigning these tags:

Ridiculous
Tiny
Small
Medium
Large

I find that if a potential buyer doesn't believe he/she has a chance at
getting the property somewhere between Tiny and Small, they feel
deceived and damaged.  And then  they believe that the property must be
stigmatized by some unknown defect or building flaw. 

So I think you are on the right track, Sean.  Stay away from ridiculous
(50%) pricing, and do the hard work to figure out how to get the
property into the 'tiny' range. 

RC Cutcher
Realtor, ABR
Austin Texas Homes, LLC
www.austintexashomes.com
512-848-4449

The Short Sale/Foreclosure Workshop
Trec Provider No. 0623
Course No. 7436

Broker Price Opinion Training
Every Friday

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-----Inline Message Follows-----


Thank you Bill? I live in Central Florida , which is ground zero when it comes to
housing. I agree with you that the formula works for some parts of the country
but not others? They actually may change from one neighborhood to
another. 
 
My intention is to give the average home
owner the tools necessary to give them an idea of what?s taking place in
their own area. As I said, it?s just a starting point or what I would
call a 10,000 view from above.
 
After all, it?s always the buyer
that will determine what something is worth and no amount of research, comparables,
appraisal, or anything else really matters. I learned that from doing many
5-day sales on properties that we?ve owned and truly learned it when I
sold my own residence in August 2006 using the 5-day method: I had over 150
people attend, over 40 initial bids, and sold it AS-IS by the end of the
weekend to a Real Estate Attorney of all people? After the sale, many of
the so called professionals contacted me to tell me that I gave the place away
and could have gotten at least 40K more for it had I used their services. A
year later, all of these so called pros said that I really got top dollar for
it.
 
-Naji
 

________________________________
 
From:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 9:49
AM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Pricing?
 
Naji,

Thanks for spending the time to provide so much detail to the list.  It's
extremely helpful to have a concrete starting point.

Where are you?

Your suggested formulas may work for your region, but they are not right for
other places.  

Still, they suggest a methodology for coming up with a starting price.

The whole point of the 5-Day Method is that it is possible for anyone to know
in 5 days what their home is worth, and to sell it for current market value.

First, somehow, you must come up with some idea of how much your home is
currently worth.

Then, if you follow my book, you offer your home for 1/2 that amount.

If you get 25 responses by Friday night, you can be sure your home is worth
much more than the starting price.  If you don't get 25 responses by
Friday night, you don't know anything...except that you should call off your
sale until you understand your local market better.

Where I live, homes are still worth pretty much what they were purchased for up
to 2 years ago.  There are no nearby foreclosures.  Square footage is
more important with regard to zoning permitted than current home size. etc.

But, at least you have provided a way for people to think that makes some
sense.  They MUST come up with some starting price -- some number they
think is possible at this time.

If they offer their home at 50% of what they believe their home is currently
worth, and fail to get 25 responses by Friday night, they can be pretty sure
their valuation is too high, and they MUST go back to the drawing board to
figure out current market value and deal with it.  They should NOT say
"19 is close enough, let's just tough it out..."

How they do this is up to them, but you have provided some valuable mechanisms
for coming up with a ballpark number that people must establish before they can
proceed with the 5-Day Method.

Any other formula or way of coming up with a number would also be helpful if
anyone else has more ideas.

Bill Effros
Author



Naji wrote: 
Factors
to use when pricing your home:
 
	1. If you purchased your home during the bubble (last 5 - 7 Years), you?re SOL? The home is not worth anything close to what you think its worth. Expect to do a short sale or walk away from it. 
	2. If you?ve owned your home for a while:
	1.. Get the last 3-5 sales in your neighborhood or within ? mile of your home for the last 3 months. Figure out the Price Per Square foot and apply to your home? This is just to give you an idea/starting point? Sale  prices are not accurate in many cases due to seller concessions, giveaways, and other costs that are lumped in the sale price.
	2. Find out how many foreclosures/bank owned properties are in your neighborhood or within ? mile of your home? This will give you an idea of what the distressed properties nearby are going for to see what you?re competing against
	3. Also, see what?s on the market in your neighborhood or within ? mile of your home and figure out the average asking price per square foot. Again to see what others are asking for their homes? This again is also to see what others are ?hoping? to get for their property
	4. If you are the first owner of the house, multiply your original purchase price by 3%-5% compounded annually. If you?re not the first owner, find out what the first owner paid for the property and run the numbers accordingly? For example, if you or the first home owner purchased the home in 1990 for 100K, 3% appreciation over the last 19 years = $175,350, 4% = $210,685, 5% = $252,695
 
This information should at least give you
a range of what your home ?should? be worth in a normal
market? If the number you?re expecting is much higher than what the
data indicates, then you need to get realistic or plan on staying in the home
until the tide shifts? in this case is at least 10 years.
 
-Naji
 

________________________________
 
From:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009
3:53 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Pricing?
 
OK,

Here we go again.

RC Cutcher is a real estate professional in the market every day.  He
actually knows what homes are selling for in his area, and is constantly buying
and selling homes for his own account.

RC Cutcher is NOT a private home seller.

Private home owners know what they paid for their homes, a short while or a
long while ago, and little else.

Brokers don't have a clue, -- they told you your home was worth what you paid
when you bought it.  Now they are telling you they can't sell it for that
amount, but if you list with them, maybe they can find you a buyer sometime in
the future for some amount they have imagined out of thin air.

Here's what I'm saying:

Take the number you think your home is currently worth -- based on any factors
you choose to use -- and TEST THAT NUMBER BEFORE WASTING ANY MORE TIME OR
MONEY!

You test by offering your home for just 3 days in the best media you can think
of in your region.

If you get 25 responses by Friday night you can know that your home is worth
substantially more than the advertised price at the current time.  It
could be worth twice as much as the advertised price.  It could be worth a
little less.  It could be worth a little more.  But you can be
certain that the advertised price was EXTREMELY ATTRACTIVE to a large number of
people looking to buy homes at the present time.

That's what you know.  Nothing more.  Nothing less.

Now, if you start fudging around with your starting price, or the number of
responses you get...you don't know anything for sure...and in my humble opinion
you are looking for failure if you proceed with a 5-Day Sale without really
knowing if your starting price is wildly below the price you can expect to get.

When RC runs 5-Day Sales he has many additional properties for sale.  If
he ropes them in on one price and sells a different home for a different price,
of course many participants accuse him of a bait and switch, because that's
exactly what he has done.

But that is not what private home sellers are doing, at all.  

When private home sellers sell their homes using the 5-Day Method properly
(start at an honest 50% -- take the high bid) nobody is mad at them. 
People who don't have the money are grateful for being treated like everyone
else, and being allowed to inspect a fine home slightly beyond their
means.  They only get mad if you treat them differently from anybody else,
or insult their ability to ever own your home.

People who have the means to afford the house know they have paid a fair price
at the current time.

The formulas presented in the book have been developed over 20 years of trial
and error.  They work in good times.   They work in bad
times.  They work more often for more people than any other formulas I've
been asked to consider.

Don't re-invent this wheel.  Don't listen to the advice of people whose
circumstances are significantly different from your own.

Bill Effros
Author





RC Cutcher wrote: 
2nd try
 
Sean writes:

One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did is that the people that 
would come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not able 
to afford what we wanted to sell it for (which was $350-$400K)

RC writes:
 
There are a least of couple of us on the Forum that
will agree with you about pricing a property at 50%.  However unlogical it
appears, failure is often assigned because a Seller didn't follow the letter of
the law (or book) on that point. 

I use a more emotional response to the price by assigning these tags:

Ridiculous
Tiny
Small
Medium
Large

I find that if a potential buyer doesn't believe he/she has a chance at getting
the property somewhere between Tiny and Small, they feel deceived and
damaged.  And then  they believe that the property must be
stigmatized by some unknown defect or building flaw. 

So I think you are on the right track, Sean.  Stay away from ridiculous
(50%) pricing, and do the hard work to figure out how to get the property into
the 'tiny' range. 

RC Cutcher
Realtor, ABR
Austin Texas Homes, LLC
www.austintexashomes.com
512-848-4449

The Short Sale/Foreclosure Workshop
Trec Provider No.. 0623
Course No. 7436

Broker Price Opinion Training
Every Friday
  
  
  

________________________________
 

  
  
  
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5-DayForum mailing list
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-----Inline Message Follows-----


Realtors don?t find buyers? Buyers find
the Realtors and use their service to buy. You can always offer a commission
for a Realtor that brings you a buyer and add a buyer?s premium to the mix.
 
-Naji
 

________________________________
 
From:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Kyle Vandegriff
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009
11:48 PM
To: 5-dayforum at howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Subject: [5-DayForum] Realtor
Attendance
 
Hello all.  I?m wondering if it is advisable to try to entice realtors
to attend my 5-day with clients looking to buy the type of house I?m offering. 
I know I?m not supposed to protect the broker, but I feel this might help to
get the real buyers to the house. The only reason I?m considering this action
is because I?ve painted myself into a corner.  I really really need to sell my
house the weekend I?m offering it because of a forced move (military).  I live
in a fairly rural and economically depressed town in south Texas and am concerned about the lack of
volume of home sales in the area over the past year.
 
In my situation I feel it might be a good tradeoff to potentially have
to pay a small commission to make the sale happen vs. certainly having to pay a
large one if the real buyers don?t turn out.  Or is this just normal pre-sale
jitters and I should stick to the book?
 
What sort of minimum commission or flat fee would be sufficient to
entice them to attend (about a $100,000 house)? 
 
Thanks!
 
-Kyle
 

-----Inline Message Follows-----


Bill hit it right on the nail ?YOU
ARE NOT GOING TO GET THE PRICE YOU WANT AT THIS TIME NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO!? 
 
We all WANT a certain price or NEED to get a certain
price, however, what we WANT, NEED, and GET for a house will never be the same.
 
-Naji
 

________________________________
 
From:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 10:45
AM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Pricing
 
Glenda,

Let's talk real numbers here.

Co-op prices in NYC are going down, just like the rest of the nation--people
are losing their jobs in massive numbers, and those rich kids can't afford the Manhattan co-ops anymore
-- there is no one to sell to at the old prices.

YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GET THE PRICE YOU WANT AT THIS TIME NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO!

Don't start the 5-Day method if you are not really prepared to follow
through.  Sean was offered a lower price because buyers KNEW he wasn't
really going to sell at the high bid price.  When it becomes clear the
seller isn't really going to follow through, the buyers leave without revealing
their top bid.

If you buy Sean's story, why is he using the 5-Day Method again?  If you
believe a Real Estate Broker can get you more 2-3 months from now, why not
offer your home through a Real Estate Broker for 2-3 months and see if you get
what you want, or not.  You can always run a 5-Day Sale .

You are setting yourself up for failure.  You are tweaking something you
don't understand.  This is not going to work!

Bill Effros
Author




V Glenda wrote: 
Hi!  All-
Maybe I am just getting the cold feet...our 5 day sale
is scheduled for this coming weekend and I just read Sean's comment about
pricing...I am also concerned that those who will show up at our open house
cannot really afford the price we want and worst of all will not qualify to get
through the coop board for the same reasons Sean mentioned.  
 
In the event that we don't get the price we want and
end up not selling, I am wondering how Sean told the highest bidder of his
decision not to sell and how did the buyer take it?  
 
Thanks,
Glenda
 

________________________________
 
From:"5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com" <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days..com>
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009
12:00:11 PM
Subject: 5-DayForum Digest, Vol
24, Issue 19

Send 5-DayForum mailing list submissions to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of 5-DayForum digest..."
Today's Topics:

  1. Re: 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 18 (Gary St. Armand)
  2.  Pricing? (Sean Folkson)
  3. Re: 5 Day Sale in Manhattan (kelsey uh)
  4. Re: 5 Day Sale in Manhattan (Kyle Cascioli)
  5. Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan (Bill Effros)
  6.  Pricing? (RC Cutcher)
  7.    Pricing? (RC Cutcher)


-----Inline Message Follows-----
Bill,
 
Have you ever written an article on using your method to rent an apartment.
I want my property manager to do the same thing, because I have 5 vacancies
in a 12-unit bldg. I don't know if she'd actually take time to read your book to follow the directions even though it's fairly straight forward.
- Gary
I--- On Fri, 3/13/09, 5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com> wrote:

From: 5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Subject: 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 18
To: 5-dayforum at mailman..howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Date: Friday, March 13, 2009, 4:00 PM
Send 5-DayForum mailing list submissions to
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   1. Re: 5 Day Sale in Manhattan (Bill Effros)
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-----Inline Message Follows-----

In this case, the starting number shouldn't matter too much Lance.

One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did is that the people that would
come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not able to afford what
we wanted to sell it for (which was $350-$400K)

We had buyers that loved the house, but were only approved up into the $320K
range.  We had great response to the ad...over 100 people came over the 2
days, and bids got up to $326,500.  All the buyers told me they were
really looking for something cheaper, but they fell in love with our place and
went higher than they even wanted to.

We chose not to sell, listed with a realtor, and ultimately got $358K for the
house, 2-3 months later.  That sale was this past july.  When I do my
next one in a month or two, I will be "tweaking the system", I'm sure
much to Bill's dismay.  I can afford to do that, because on this property
I'll be selling, I don't really care if it sells or not.  If it doesn't
sell, my wife and I will move into it.

What I'll be doing is listing it for the lowest price we'd accept.  This
will help ensure that any potential buyers who visit can afford to pay what we
want for the house.  in this day and age of internet search and filters,
listing at 50% of what you want might prevent you from having the right buyers
find your property.  If you were looking for a house, you're looking in a
price range.  If you enter a price range of $150-$200K, you can't afford
to pay the $350-$400K the 5 day seller wants.  And, if you're a consumer
looking to spend $350-$400K for a house, you'll likely never even see the ad
for the house listed at $174,500.  And, if you do, you'll likely assume
it's a dump and not something worth looking at.

sean




-----Inline Message Follows-----

O.K. Thank you

On 3/12/09, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
wrote:
> Kelsey,
>
> You can't get legal advice here -- we're not lawyers.
>
> 5-Day Sales work best when the owner runs them. Other people can do it,
> but if you have been following this Forum of late you read the anger of
> many people toward real estate professionals who are widely blamed for
> profiting from the bubble that preceded this bust.
>
> You can do all the work for Glenda, but she will get a higher price if
> she does it herself.
>
> Bill Effros
> Author
>
>
>
> kelsey uh wrote:
>>
>> I have been helping Glenda with marketing. I am her friend.
>>
>> I have a real estate agent license. If Glenda goes on business trip on
>> the inspection days, can I do the auction and round robin for her? Is
>> it legal in NY state?
>>
>> Your response will be highly appreciated, as I have no time to check
>> with county clerks and lawyers.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Kelsey
>>
>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> 5-DayForum mailing list
>> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>
>



-----Inline Message Follows-----

Agreed!
 
That's how we do it with with our seller and builder platforms and it
works well.
 
Many buyers today want direct contact with sellers and builders.
 
Best to all, 
 
Kyle Cascioli
www.AuctionBySeller.com 
www.AuctionByBuilder.com 
 
> Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:27:36 -0400
> From: kelseyuh at gmail.com
> To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] 5 Day Sale in Manhattan
> 
> O.K. Thank you
> 
> On 3/12/09, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> > Kelsey,
> >
> > You can't get legal advice here -- we're not lawyers.
> >
> > 5-Day Sales work best when the owner runs them. Other people can do
it,
> > but if you have been following this Forum of late you read the anger
of
> > many people toward real estate professionals who are widely blamed
for
> > profiting from the bubble that preceded this bust.
> >
> > You can do all the work for Glenda, but she will get a higher price
if
> > she does it herself..
> >
> > Bill Effros
> > Author
> >
> >
> >
> > kelsey uh wrote:
> >>
> >> I have been helping Glenda with marketing. I am her friend.
> >>
> >> I have a real estate agent license. If Glenda goes on business
trip on
> >> the inspection days, can I do the auction and round robin for
her? Is
> >> it legal in NY state?
> >>
> >> Your response will be highly appreciated, as I have no time to
check
> >> with county clerks and lawyers.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Kelsey
> >>
> >>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> 5-DayForum mailing list
> >> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> >> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> >>
> >
> _______________________________________________
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> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

________________________________
 
Express your personality
in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail?. See how. 

-----Inline Message Follows-----

Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan


March 14, 2009
Your Money
By RON LIEBER (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/l/ron_lieber/index.html?inline=nyt-per)

If you?re among the millions of people who will not qualify for the Obama
administration?s program to help troubled homeowners, you?re probably wondering
what you?re supposed to do now.

Perhaps you no longer have enough income to pay your loans (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier).
Or you can afford the payments but don?t qualify for refinancing under the new
plan because the value of your home is too far below the balance of the loan.
If you?re far enough underwater, you?re probably questioning the wisdom of
writing a monthly check on a place that may take 10 or 15 years to get back to
the value it had two or three years ago. It isn?t easy to come up with the
answer, and if you have moral misgivings about not making good on your mortgage
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/mortgages/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier),
a religious officiant may offer as much useful guidance as a financial planner (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/planning/financial-planners/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier).

In an economic environment like this one, however, the consequences of giving
up on your mortgage may not be as painful as they were a few years ago. Yes, it?s
almost always preferable to negotiate a better deal on your existing mortgage
than to walk away. But if you can?t work things out with your lender, you
probably won?t be sued. You shouldn?t receive a major tax bill either. And the
damage to your credit will not be permanent or insurmountable.

Let?s look at these last three in order.

YOUR LENDER First off, let?s define what we mean by ?giving up? on your current
mortgage. It may mean trying for a short sale (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/s/short_selling/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier),
where the lender allows you to sell your home for less than the mortgage
amount. You may also hand over the deed to the home in exchange for the lender
agreeing not to start foreclosure proceedings (a ?deed in lieu? in industry
terms). Then, there?s foreclosure itself, and the possibility that bankruptcy
judges may soon have the power to adjust the terms of primary mortgages.

That said, just because you?re ineligible under the Obama plan doesn?t mean
that your lender or servicer won?t ultimately adjust your mortgage anyhow.
Collectively, there are enough people in trouble or under water on their loans
that they have plenty of leverage if they?re willing to play chicken with their
lender and threaten to stop paying.

The problem is, the lender can play chicken, too, by threatening to come after
you for the balance of any money you owe ? whether it?s the difference between
what you sell the property for yourself and the remaining mortgage, or the loan
amount left over after the lender sells your property in foreclosure.

The lender may not follow through, though. ?What our membership is telling us
is that it can be cost-prohibitive to chase down a borrower who is already in
financial distress,? said John Mechem, a spokesman for the Mortgage Bankers
Association. ?You can?t squeeze blood from a stone.? They may, however, still
come after people with high incomes who walk away from jumbo loans that are way
under water or loans on investment (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/investments/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
properties.

Some states have laws that may specifically prohibit lenders from pursuing
borrowers for the balance of many mortgage loans after foreclosure, though the
particulars vary. Arizona and California are among these states, according to Steven
Bender, a professor at the University 
of Oregon (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/u/university_of_oregon/index.html?inline=nyt-org) School of Law . It?s best to talk to a lawyer to
determine your state?s rules.

In fact, if you want to be sure your lender (or a collection agency that it may
sell your loan to) won?t chase you down, it?s a good idea to have a lawyer
involved with any short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure itself. ?You must get
the bank to agree in writing that any deficiency is waived,? said Chip Parker,
a lawyer specializing in foreclosure with Parker & DuFresne in Jacksonville , Fla.

The biggest challenge here may simply be finding someone at the bank to help.
Having a second mortgage will also complicate matters.

YOUR TAXES You also need to consider the taxman. Often, forgiven debts are
taxable as income. Recent legislative changes, however, eliminate the federal
tax burden through 2012 on most primary residence debt that a lender has
reduced through loan restructuring or forgiven during foreclosure.

Mark Luscombe, principal analyst for CCH, a tax information service, said that
people who sell their home through a short sale or give up the deed in lieu of
foreclosure can also qualify for tax relief if they use a special tax form,
1099-C, that reflects the amount of debt that the lender has forgiven.

People who live in states with their own income taxes may avoid a big bill as
well. Some states, like Arizona and California , have
introduced or passed legislation that echoes the federal laws, according to the
National Conference of State Legislatures. Many others tend to mimic most or
all federal income tax laws as a general rule, according to CCH. Check with an
accountant in your state to be sure.

YOUR CREDIT A short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure itself will almost
certainly damage your credit report and score, and the black mark will last for
up to seven years. But the amount of damage it does will depend on how much
other credit trouble you?ve gotten yourself into with other lenders..

If you?re giving up the home you own, you?ll probably need to rent soon
afterward. Will landlords turn you away once they check your credit and
discover your troubled mortgage? ?If it?s the only thing marring their credit,
it?s probably not a big issue,? said Clay Powell, the director of the Rental
Property Owners Association of Michigan, who added that good tenants could be
scarce in economic environments like this one.

In fact, Todd J. Zywicki, a law professor at George Mason  University , predicted
that FICO may have to adjust its credit scores (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-scores/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
to lessen the impact of a foreclosure or similar incident. ?It just seems
obvious that a foreclosure in 2008 or 2009 doesn?t have as much information
value as a foreclosure five years ago,? he said. ?To the extent that
foreclosure doesn?t predict future behavior as much as it did in the past,
you?d expect that the FICO algorithm would change to adjust for that.?

Craig Watts, a spokesman for FICO, said that was an interesting idea. ?We try
not to get involved too much in psychobabble around what is and isn?t
predictive,? he said. ?If the numbers show that foreclosure is less predictive,
then we?ll take it into account in future redevelopments of the formula.? That
would take a minimum of two to three years, though.

Some lenders aren?t waiting that long to initiate their own foreclosure
destigmatization programs. The Golden 1, one of the nation?s largest credit
unions, now has a mortgage repair loan for people who have lost a home to
foreclosure but want to buy a new one.

It?s hard to imagine that there won?t be a parade of insurance (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/insurance/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
companies, credit card (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-and-debit-cards/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
issuers and mortgage lenders in Golden 1?s wake, even though Fannie Mae (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/fannie_mae/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
and Freddie Mac (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/freddie_mac/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
may be unwilling to guarantee the mortgages of such borrowers for several
years. In fact, Aaron Bresko, the vice president of lending for BECU, another
large credit union based in Washington State, is putting together a panel
called ?How to Lend to the Newly Credit Impaired? for a conference later this
year.

?Good people have bad things happen to them, so how do you find those people
and reach out to them?? he said. ?As the year progresses, it?s going to be an
emerging market.?

How are you handling your mortgage problems?
Write to rlieber at nytimes.com.




-----Inline Message Follows-----
Shean writes:
 
One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did is that
the people that 
would come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not able 
to afford what we wanted to sell it for (which was $350-$400K)
 
There are a least of couple of us on the Forum that
will agree with you about pricing a property at 50%.  However unlogical it
appears, failure is often assigned because a Seller didn't follow the letter of
the law (or book) on that point. 
 
I use a more emotional response to the price by
assigning these tags:
 
Ridiculous
Tiny
Small
Medium
Large
 
I find that if a potential buyer doesn't believe
he/she has a chance at getting the property somewhere between Tiny and Small,
they feel deceived and damaged.  And then  they believe that the
property must be stigmatized by some unknown defect or building flaw. 
 
So I think you are on the right track, Shean. 
Stay away from ridiculous (50%) pricing, and do the hard work to figure
out how to get the property into the 'tiny' range. 
 
RC Cutcher
Realtor, ABR
Austin Texas Homes, LLC
www.austintexashomes.com
512-848-4449
 
The Short Sale/Foreclosure Workshop
Trec Provider No. 0623
Course No. 7436
 
Broker Price Opinion Training
Every Friday
 


-----Inline Message Follows-----
2nd try
 
Sean writes:

One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did is that the people that 
would come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not able 
to afford what we wanted to sell it for (which was $350-$400K)

RC writes:
 
There are a least of couple of us on the Forum that
will agree with you about pricing a property at 50%.  However unlogical it
appears, failure is often assigned because a Seller didn't follow the letter of
the law (or book) on that point. 

I use a more emotional response to the price by assigning these tags:

Ridiculous
Tiny
Small
Medium
Large

I find that if a potential buyer doesn't believe he/she has a chance at getting
the property somewhere between Tiny and Small, they feel deceived and
damaged..  And then  they believe that the property must be
stigmatized by some unknown defect or building flaw. 

So I think you are on the right track, Sean.  Stay away from ridiculous
(50%) pricing, and do the hard work to figure out how to get the property into
the 'tiny' range. 

RC Cutcher
Realtor, ABR
Austin Texas Homes, LLC
www.austintexashomes.com
512-848-4449

The Short Sale/Foreclosure Workshop
Trec Provider No. 0623
Course No. 7436

Broker Price Opinion Training
Every Friday
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-----Inline Message Follows-----

I've have had 50+ call pryor to sale but have had only 15 show and 4 bid. The highest is 10k from what I need. Do u guys think I will get it?  Any advice ?

Sent from my iPhone



-----Inline Message Follows-----

Wayne,

Play it straight -- take what you get -- few people are getting anywhere near this close at this time.

Keep texting to the list, and a people will reply.

There is no pattern to what will happen from this point forward, however you have run your sale properly, and you will get the most you can get on this weekend.

Continue to tell people you will sell to the high bidder without reservation -- if you have to start dancing on Monday morning, people on this list will help you call the tune.

Bill Effros
Author



Wayne Giese wrote:
> I've have had 50+ call pryor to sale but have had only 15 show and 4  bid. The highest is 10k from what I need. Do u guys think I will get  it?  Any advice ?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> 
>  



-----Inline Message Follows-----

Naji,

OK, now I see where your advice is coming from!

Wow.

What has happened in your neck of the woods is truly unimaginable --
even after it's happened to you.

Please continue to give us your perspective -- you are like a distant
early warning for the rest of us.

What will be hard for you to understand is the extent to which your
experiences have NOT been mirrored in some other places up to this time.

Will the bank bailout spare NYC from your fate?

Will Google spare San Francisco from your fate?

Stay tuned to this channel.  Most of the country is somewhere
in-between you and those who have not yet seen a serious price decline
in the current value of real estate.

Is there anything that can turn things around?  Or will most
communities approach your level of value erosion?

I gather you have been able to stay on your feet in the Real Estate
market.  Everyone will want to know how you have managed to do that.  

Thanks for all your input -- it helps everyone if we can more clearly
see where we all might be headed.

Bill Effros
Author



Naji wrote: 
Thank you
Bill? I live in Central Florida ,
which is ground zero when it comes to
housing. I agree with you that the formula works for some parts of the
country
but not others? They actually may change from one neighborhood to
another. 
 
My intention
is to give the average home
owner the tools necessary to give them an idea of what?s taking place
in
their own area. As I said, it?s just a starting point or what I would
call a 10,000 view from above.
 
After all,
it?s always the buyer
that will determine what something is worth and no amount of research,
comparables,
appraisal, or anything else really matters. I learned that from doing
many
5-day sales on properties that we?ve owned and truly learned it when I
sold my own residence in August 2006 using the 5-day method: I had over
150
people attend, over 40 initial bids, and sold it AS-IS by the end of
the
weekend to a Real Estate Attorney of all people? After the sale, many
of
the so called professionals contacted me to tell me that I gave the
place away
and could have gotten at least 40K more for it had I used their
services. A
year later, all of these so called pros said that I really got top
dollar for
it.
 
-Naji
 

________________________________

From:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Effros
Sent: Sunday, March
15, 2009 9:49
AM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re:
[5-DayForum] Pricing?
 
Naji,

Thanks for spending the time to provide so much detail to the list. 
It's
extremely helpful to have a concrete starting point.

Where are you?

Your suggested formulas may work for your region, but they are not
right for
other places.  

Still, they suggest a methodology for coming up with a starting price.

The whole point of the 5-Day Method is that it is possible for anyone
to know
in 5 days what their home is worth, and to sell it for current market
value.

First, somehow, you must come up with some idea of how much your home
is
currently worth.

Then, if you follow my book, you offer your home for 1/2 that amount.

If you get 25 responses by Friday night, you can be sure your home is
worth
much more than the starting price.  If you don't get 25 responses by
Friday night, you don't know anything...except that you should call off
your
sale until you understand your local market better.

Where I live, homes are still worth pretty much what they were
purchased for up
to 2 years ago.  There are no nearby foreclosures.  Square footage is
more important with regard to zoning permitted than current home size.
etc.

But, at least you have provided a way for people to think that makes
some
sense.  They MUST come up with some starting price -- some number they
think is possible at this time.

If they offer their home at 50% of what they believe their home is
currently
worth, and fail to get 25 responses by Friday night, they can be pretty
sure
their valuation is too high, and they MUST go back to the drawing board
to
figure out current market value and deal with it.  They should NOT say
"19 is close enough, let's just tough it out...."

How they do this is up to them, but you have provided some valuable
mechanisms
for coming up with a ballpark number that people must establish before
they can
proceed with the 5-Day Method.

Any other formula or way of coming up with a number would also be
helpful if
anyone else has more ideas.

Bill Effros
Author



Naji wrote: 
Factors
to use when pricing your home:
 
	1. If you purchased your
home during the bubble (last 5 - 7 Years), you?re SOL? The home is not
worth anything close to what you think its worth. Expect to do a short
sale or walk away from it. 
	2. If you?ve owned your home
for a while:
	1. Get the last 3-5 sales in
your neighborhood or within ? mile of your home for the last 3 months.
Figure out the Price Per Square foot and apply to your home? This is
just to give you an idea/starting point? Sale 
prices are not accurate in many cases due to seller concessions,
giveaways, and other costs that are lumped in the sale price.
	2. Find out how many
foreclosures/bank owned properties are in your neighborhood or within ?
mile of your home? This will give you an idea of what the distressed
properties nearby are going for to see what you?re competing against
	3. Also, see what?s on the
market in your neighborhood or within ? mile of your home and figure
out the average asking price per square foot. Again to see what others
are asking for their homes? This again is also to see what others are
?hoping? to get for their property
	4. If you are the first
owner of the house, multiply your original purchase price by 3%-5%
compounded annually. If you?re not the first owner, find out what the
first owner paid for the property and run the numbers accordingly? For
example, if you or the first home owner purchased the home in 1990 for
100K, 3% appreciation over the last 19 years = $175,350, 4% = $210,685,
5% = $252,695
 
This
information should at least give you
a range of what your home ?should? be worth in a normal
market? If the number you?re expecting is much higher than what the
data indicates, then you need to get realistic or plan on staying in
the home
until the tide shifts? in this case is at least 10 years.
 
-Naji
 

________________________________

From:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr..com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Effros
Sent: Saturday, March
14, 2009
3:53 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re:
[5-DayForum] Pricing?
 
OK,

Here we go again.

RC Cutcher is a real estate professional in the market every day.  He
actually knows what homes are selling for in his area, and is
constantly buying
and selling homes for his own account.

RC Cutcher is NOT a private home seller.

Private home owners know what they paid for their homes, a short while
or a
long while ago, and little else.

Brokers don't have a clue, -- they told you your home was worth what
you paid
when you bought it.  Now they are telling you they can't sell it for
that
amount, but if you list with them, maybe they can find you a buyer
sometime in
the future for some amount they have imagined out of thin air.

Here's what I'm saying:

Take the number you think your home is currently worth -- based on any
factors
you choose to use -- and TEST THAT NUMBER BEFORE WASTING ANY MORE TIME
OR
MONEY!

You test by offering your home for just 3 days in the best media you
can think
of in your region.

If you get 25 responses by Friday night you can know that your home is
worth
substantially more than the advertised price at the current time.  It
could be worth twice as much as the advertised price.  It could be
worth a
little less.  It could be worth a little more.  But you can be
certain that the advertised price was EXTREMELY ATTRACTIVE to a large
number of
people looking to buy homes at the present time.

That's what you know.  Nothing more.  Nothing less.

Now, if you start fudging around with your starting price, or the
number of
responses you get...you don't know anything for sure...and in my humble
opinion
you are looking for failure if you proceed with a 5-Day Sale without
really
knowing if your starting price is wildly below the price you can expect
to get.

When RC runs 5-Day Sales he has many additional properties for sale. 
If
he ropes them in on one price and sells a different home for a
different price,
of course many participants accuse him of a bait and switch, because
that's
exactly what he has done.

But that is not what private home sellers are doing, at all.  

When private home sellers sell their homes using the 5-Day Method
properly
(start at an honest 50% -- take the high bid) nobody is mad at them. 
People who don't have the money are grateful for being treated like
everyone
else, and being allowed to inspect a fine home slightly beyond their
means.  They only get mad if you treat them differently from anybody
else,
or insult their ability to ever own your home.

People who have the means to afford the house know they have paid a
fair price
at the current time.

The formulas presented in the book have been developed over 20 years of
trial
and error.  They work in good times.   They work in bad
times.  They work more often for more people than any other formulas
I've
been asked to consider.

Don't re-invent this wheel.  Don't listen to the advice of people whose
circumstances are significantly different from your own.

Bill Effros
Author





RC Cutcher wrote: 
2nd try
 
Sean writes:

One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did is that the people that 
would come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not able 
to afford what we wanted to sell it for (which was $350-$400K)

RC writes:
 
There are a least of
couple of us on the Forum that
will agree with you about pricing a property at 50%.  However unlogical
it
appears, failure is often assigned because a Seller didn't follow the
letter of
the law (or book) on that point. 

I use a more emotional response to the price by assigning these tags:

Ridiculous
Tiny
Small
Medium
Large

I find that if a potential buyer doesn't believe he/she has a chance at
getting
the property somewhere between Tiny and Small, they feel deceived and
damaged.  And then  they believe that the property must be
stigmatized by some unknown defect or building flaw. 

So I think you are on the right track, Sean.  Stay away from ridiculous
(50%) pricing, and do the hard work to figure out how to get the
property into
the 'tiny' range. 

RC Cutcher
Realtor, ABR
Austin Texas Homes, LLC
www.austintexashomes.com
512-848-4449

The Short Sale/Foreclosure Workshop
Trec Provider No. 0623
Course No.. 7436

Broker Price Opinion Training
Every Friday
  
  
  

________________________________
 

  
  
  
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From jcrafor at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 15 20:04:09 2009
From: jcrafor at hotmail.com (j crafor)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 00:04:09 +0000
Subject: [5-DayForum] Ads on Craigslist
In-Reply-To: <186557.8273.qm@web30207.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <49B7F52A.7040106@effros.com>
	<186557.8273.qm@web30207.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W23723185F852933265D5C6AE9B0@phx.gbl>


It's the same here, too, both with ads and builders. 

If you are careful, you might be able to post you ad a day or two apart. Be very careful to use different words to describe it in the subject heading. People here vary the subject line, but keep the rest of the post pretty much the same.  

 

One of the builders is advertising his new homes starting at $140K. I hope to get more than that for mine. So, what are the differences? Bigger trees? More shade? 

Both are hoas, BUT mine is built out and sold, he may not sell all his for a long time, My hoa is established, and having very few amenities, has a much lower association fee. Some of what he's advertising as part of the hoa and fees, we have paid taxes for, less than a mile away...

 

I will look for others, but maybe if you push how YOURS is better, you will look better to buyers, too. 

JCrafor

 

> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 16:22:38 -0700
> From: sterbert at yahoo.com
> To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Ads on Craigslist
> 
> 
> 
> I just wanted to add ...
> 
> that advertising has been complicated for me. In the
> Seattle area, the general inventory is especially
> high. New housing developments were rising on a daily
> basis not too long ago. Now I'm competing with brand
> new unsold homes being given away so the builders can
> cut their losses. 
> 
> On Craigslist, in the Seattle-Tacoma area, since I
> placed my ad late Tuesday night, more than 1000 new
> postings are there. I don't see how anyone can find my
> ad after today. I can't even find it--and I'm
> lookingfor it.
> 
> This is my 2nd time trying to run the sale (despite
> Bill's warning). I got several responses today ...
> but, like last time, it will decline fast as my ad
> gets further buried.
> 
> Steven
> 
> 
> --- Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> 
> > Aamir,
> > 
> > I've sold homes in Rockland County, so I know what
> > you're talking about.
> > 
> > Here's the way I always figure it:
> > 
> > If an ad brings in one additional real buyer who
> > bumps up the final bid 
> > by $500, the ad was worth $1000. (If that real buyer
> > had not bid at the 
> > end of the round robin, the final buyer would have
> > been able to buy for 
> > $1000 less than the final bid.)
> > 
> > In my experience the New York City buyers are
> > generally outbid by the 
> > locals, because they don't know the market as well,
> > and tend to drop out 
> > sooner.
> > 
> > With regard to the Internet versus print ad, I don't
> > know what to say, 
> > or how to figure it. Five-day ads pop out on New
> > York Times pages. The 
> > price is clearly all wrong, and you tend to get
> > responses from people 
> > who are not trolling Internet ads. The people who
> > pick up your 
> > advertising on the Internet often see it both in the
> > New York Times and 
> > craigslist.
> > 
> > Your call. I usually run both.
> > 
> > Bill Effros
> > Author
> > 
> > Steven Herbert wrote:
> > > Lots of my response came from Print I believe. I'm
> > in
> > > Washington State. 
> > >
> > > I was first quoted $480. Then I was told that by
> > > putting my Wed-Fri ad 1st, I was discounted on the
> > > Sat-Sun rate. 
> > >
> > > I paid $140 for Wed--Fri and $70 for Sat & Sun.
> > >
> > > STeven
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Aamir Syed <aamirsy at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > >> Hello all,
> > >>
> > >> I'm currently putting the 5-Day method into
> > practice
> > >> next week. Our house is
> > >> in Rockland County NY (about 35 miles north of
> > NYC).
> > >> I know that I will be
> > >> posting an ad in our local news paper, but I was
> > >> considering perhaps the NY
> > >> times as well. an online+print ad = $380 (very
> > >> expensive). However, an
> > >> online only ad is approx $130. Considering the
> > price
> > >> difference would it be
> > >> worth it to place just an online ad? both online
> > and
> > >> print? or none?
> > >>
> > >> Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
> > >>
> > >> -- 
> > >> -Aamir
> > >> 
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> 
> > >> 5-DayForum mailing list
> > >> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >>
> > >> 
> > >
> >
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> > > 
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > 5-DayForum mailing list
> > > 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> >
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> > >
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > 5-DayForum mailing list
> > 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> >
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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From glendav24 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 16 01:44:01 2009
From: glendav24 at yahoo.com (V Glenda)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 22:44:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [5-DayForum] 5 Day Sale in Manhattan
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1494.1237161855.1212.5-dayforum@mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
References: <mailman.1494.1237161855.1212.5-dayforum@mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Message-ID: <509156.12108.qm@web112210.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hi!  Bill-
Here's the latest on my project...which I don't seem to be managing very well lately...I came across a listing from Bellmarc Realty where the broker, Merrill Flaum, I spoke with on Thursday (Who pose to inquire about the ad he saw either on Craig's List or NYTimes, at first...long story) decided, without my full consent, to list our property online and at Easy Street.com.  I have since got both parties to remove the listings.  But now, I just came across a real estate publication based in NY and Florida real estate  and they have written an article about my apartment being the cheapest that has come to market so far, except they put Bellmarc as the listing agent.  At this point, it is probably too late to fight everyone in an effort to hide the property address before the sale...a lesson for me for running the advertisement earlier than what you suggested in the book...now, what should I do in terms of damage control?  Is it even worth it to try?  I
 emailed the publication and wrote a corrective comment under the comment section in response to the 1 comment currently, which is discouraging any possible interest on the property (she said it is probably roast infested, etc).  I told the commentator that it is not and she should contact me directly so she can take a look for herself.  Do I now send the mass e-mail to my responders so far of the exact address or just wait until Wednesday, when I was planning on doing so?  The article did not mention any open house nor its a bidding process either...all mis information....

Thanks,
Glenda



________________________________
From: "5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com" <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 8:04:15 PM
Subject: 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 22

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Today's Topics:

   1. 5 Day sale in Manhattan (V Glenda)
   2. Re: Ads on Craigslist (j crafor)


-----Inline Message Follows-----


Thanks for the feedback, Bill.  Point well taken regarding the pricing issue as well.  I guess, one way to find out is really to go through the 5-day sale and see for myself.

On another note,  someone contacted me regarding helping me prequalify a buyer once we agreed on the price...sounds like a closer.  He is charging $1,500 payable once we close with the buyer..good idea or bad idea to enlist his service?  Do you have any lawyer you would recommend who you worked with in the Manhattan area to help in closing a 5 day sale?



________________________________
From: "5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com" <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 12:00:06 PM
Subject: 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 21

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Realtor Attendance (Bill Effros)
   2. Re: 5 Day Sale in Manhattan (Bill Effros)
   3. Re: Pricing (Bill Effros)
   4. Re: Pricing? (Naji)
   5. Re: Realtor Attendance (Naji)
   6. Re: Pricing (Naji)
   7. Second day of sale (Wayne Giese)
   8. Re: Second day of sale (Bill Effros)
   9. Re: Pricing? (Bill Effros)


-----Inline Message Follows-----

Kyle,

Pre-sale jitters.

If you offer your home for $49,500 you'll get 25 responses.  Military
5-Day Sales have been extremely successful because it's so easy to
explain to everyone why you are doing what you are doing, and many have
heard of 5-Day Sales before.

Everyone will know if a $100,000 home is being offered for $50,000 --
and they will all know you are really going to go through with it
because you have to.

Buyers' Brokers will show up with their clients and they will push the
value of your home to the highest possible level.  They will be paid by
their clients, and they won't collect anything unless they get their
clients to bid more than any other buyer is willing to pay.  

Have extra copies of the book on hand -- you should get a very large
turnout and you may not be able to spend as much time as you need
explaining the 5-Day Sale over and over.  Tab the buyer's section of
the book so new buyers can comfortably get into the bidding and take it
to the highest point they are prepared to pay.

Start at a "Magic Number" -- $49,500 -- not an oddball number.

Play straight -- you'll get the best possible price -- you'll be able
to buy another home at an equivalent price if you choose to do so.

Bill Effros
Author

Kyle Vandegriff wrote: 
Hello all.  I?m
wondering if it is advisable to try to entice realtors to attend my
5-day with clients looking to buy the type of house I?m offering.  I know I?m not supposed to protect the broker, but
I feel this might help to get the real buyers to the house. The only
reason I?m considering this action is because I?ve painted myself into
a corner.  I really really need to sell my house
the weekend I?m offering it because of a forced move (military).  I live in a fairly rural and economically depressed
town in south Texas and am concerned about the lack of volume of home
sales in the area over the past year.
 
In my situation I feel it might be a
good tradeoff to potentially have to pay a small commission to make the
sale happen vs. certainly having to pay a large one if the real buyers
don?t turn out.  Or is this just normal pre-sale
jitters and I should stick to the book?
 
What sort of minimum commission or
flat fee would be sufficient to entice them to attend (about a $100,000
house)? 
 
Thanks!
 
-Kyle
 

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-----Inline Message Follows-----

Forget the packet.

Locate the buyer first.  Find out what your Coop is worth..

We all know how coop boards work around here, and that a sale is never
a sale until the board OKs it.

Just run the sale, then go through the normal closing routines
including coop packets and all the rest.

If the Board turns the buyer down, run another 5 Day sale.  You will
get exactly the same price you got the first time.  Many of the same
people will bid.  

Keep doing it until the board finally accepts someone -- although I
would guess it is easier to get people though when there are fewer
buyers than when there are more buyers than co-ops.

Bill Effros
Author

V Glenda wrote: 
Thank you all for the feedback regarding the length of
advertising....I am moving on to the next topic regarding the sale.  I
am specifically unclear how and when in the process do I introduce the
Coop Board packet that a buyer will have to complete?  Bill, when you
sold the coop properties in Manhattan how did you do it? 

Thanks,
Glenda






________________________________
From: "5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com" <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Sent: Saturday, March
14, 2009 12:00:11 PM
Subject: 5-DayForum
Digest, Vol 24, Issue 19

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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 18 (Gary St. Armand)
  2.  Pricing? (Sean Folkson)
  3. Re: 5 Day Sale in Manhattan (kelsey uh)
  4. Re: 5 Day Sale in Manhattan (Kyle Cascioli)
  5. Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan (Bill Effros)
  6.  Pricing? (RC Cutcher)
  7.    Pricing? (RC Cutcher)


-----Inline Message Follows-----


Bill,
 
Have you ever written an article on using your method to
rent an apartment.
I want my property manager to do the same thing, because I
have 5 vacancies
in a 12-unit bldg. I don't know if she'd actually take
time to read your book to follow the directions even though it's fairly
straight forward.


-Gary
I--- On Fri, 3/13/09, 5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com> wrote:


From: 5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Subject: 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 18
To: 5-dayforum at mailman..howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Date: Friday, March 13, 2009, 4:00 PM


Send 5-DayForum mailing list
submissions to
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   1. Re: 5 Day Sale in Manhattan (Bill Effros)

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-----Inline Message Follows-----

In this case, the starting number shouldn't matter too much Lance.

One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did is that the people that
would come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not able to
afford what we wanted to sell it for (which was $350-$400K)

We had buyers that loved the house, but were only approved up into the
$320K range.  We had great response to the ad...over 100 people came
over the 2 days, and bids got up to $326,500.  All the buyers told me
they were really looking for something cheaper, but they fell in love
with our place and went higher than they even wanted to.

We chose not to sell, listed with a realtor, and ultimately got $358K
for the house, 2-3 months later.  That sale was this past july.  When I
do my next one in a month or two, I will be "tweaking the system", I'm
sure much to Bill's dismay.  I can afford to do that, because on this
property I'll be selling, I don't really care if it sells or not.  If
it doesn't sell, my wife and I will move into it.

What I'll be doing is listing it for the lowest price we'd accept. 
This will help ensure that any potential buyers who visit can afford to
pay what we want for the house.  in this day and age of internet search
and filters, listing at 50% of what you want might prevent you from
having the right buyers find your property.  If you were looking for a
house, you're looking in a price range.  If you enter a price range of
$150-$200K, you can't afford to pay the $350-$400K the 5 day seller
wants.  And, if you're a consumer looking to spend $350-$400K for a
house, you'll likely never even see the ad for the house listed at
$174,500.  And, if you do, you'll likely assume it's a dump and not
something worth looking at.

sean




-----Inline Message Follows-----

O.K. Thank you

On 3/12/09, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
wrote:
> Kelsey,
>
> You can't get legal advice here -- we're not lawyers..
>
> 5-Day Sales work best when the owner runs them. Other people can
do it,
> but if you have been following this Forum of late you read the
anger of
> many people toward real estate professionals who are widely blamed
for
> profiting from the bubble that preceded this bust..
>
> You can do all the work for Glenda, but she will get a higher
price if
> she does it herself.
>
> Bill Effros
> Author
>
>
>
> kelsey uh wrote:
>>
>> I have been helping Glenda with marketing. I am her friend..
>>
>> I have a real estate agent license. If Glenda goes on business
trip on
>> the inspection days, can I do the auction and round robin for
her? Is
>> it legal in NY state?
>>
>> Your response will be highly appreciated, as I have no time to
check
>> with county clerks and lawyers.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Kelsey
>>
>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> 5-DayForum mailing list
>> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>
>



-----Inline Message Follows-----

Agreed!
 
That's how we do it with with our seller and builder platforms and it
works well.
 
Many buyers today want direct contact with sellers and builders.
 
Best to all, 
 
Kyle Cascioli
www.AuctionBySeller.com 
www.AuctionByBuilder.com 
 
> Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:27:36 -0400
> From: kelseyuh at gmail.com
> To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] 5 Day Sale in Manhattan
> 
> O.K. Thank you
> 
> On 3/12/09, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> > Kelsey,
> >
> > You can't get legal advice here -- we're not lawyers.
> >
> > 5-Day Sales work best when the owner runs them. Other people
can do it,
> > but if you have been following this Forum of late you read
the anger of
> > many people toward real estate professionals who are widely
blamed for
> > profiting from the bubble that preceded this bust.
> >
> > You can do all the work for Glenda, but she will get a higher
price if
> > she does it herself.
> >
> > Bill Effros
> > Author
> >
> >
> >
> > kelsey uh wrote:
> >>
> >> I have been helping Glenda with marketing. I am her
friend.
> >>
> >> I have a real estate agent license. If Glenda goes on
business trip on
> >> the inspection days, can I do the auction and round robin
for her? Is
> >> it legal in NY state?
> >>
> >> Your response will be highly appreciated, as I have no
time to check
> >> with county clerks and lawyers.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Kelsey
> >>
> >>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> 5-DayForum mailing list
> >> 5-DayForum at mailman..howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> >> http://mailman..howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> >>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
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Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan


March 14, 2009
Your Money
By RON LIEBER (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/l/ron_lieber/index.html?inline=nyt-per)

If you?re among the millions of people who will not qualify for the
Obama administration?s program to help troubled homeowners, you?re
probably wondering what you?re supposed to do now.

Perhaps you no longer have enough income to pay your loans (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier).
Or you can afford the payments but don?t qualify for refinancing under
the new plan because the value of your home is too far below the
balance of the loan. If you?re far enough underwater, you?re probably
questioning the wisdom of writing a monthly check on a place that may
take 10 or 15 years to get back to the value it had two or three years
ago. It isn?t easy to come up with the answer, and if you have moral
misgivings about not making good on your mortgage (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/mortgages/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier),
a religious officiant may offer as much useful guidance as a financial
planner (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/planning/financial-planners/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)..

In an economic environment like this one, however, the consequences of
giving up on your mortgage may not be as painful as they were a few
years ago. Yes, it?s almost always preferable to negotiate a better
deal on your existing mortgage than to walk away. But if you can?t work
things out with your lender, you probably won?t be sued... You shouldn?t
receive a major tax bill either. And the damage to your credit will not
be permanent or insurmountable.

Let?s look at these last three in order.

YOUR LENDER First off, let?s define what we mean by ?giving up? on your
current mortgage. It may mean trying for a short sale (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/s/short_selling/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier),
where the lender allows you to sell your home for less than the
mortgage amount. You may also hand over the deed to the home in
exchange for the lender agreeing not to start foreclosure proceedings
(a ?deed in lieu? in industry terms). Then, there?s foreclosure itself,
and the possibility that bankruptcy judges may soon have the power to
adjust the terms of primary mortgages.

That said, just because you?re ineligible under the Obama plan doesn?t
mean that your lender or servicer won?t ultimately adjust your mortgage
anyhow. Collectively, there are enough people in trouble or under water
on their loans that they have plenty of leverage if they?re willing to
play chicken with their lender and threaten to stop paying.

The problem is, the lender can play chicken, too, by threatening to
come after you for the balance of any money you owe ? whether it?s the
difference between what you sell the property for yourself and the
remaining mortgage, or the loan amount left over after the lender sells
your property in foreclosure.

The lender may not follow through, though. ?What our membership is
telling us is that it can be cost-prohibitive to chase down a borrower
who is already in financial distress,? said John Mechem, a spokesman
for the Mortgage Bankers Association. ?You can?t squeeze blood from a
stone.? They may, however, still come after people with high incomes
who walk away from jumbo loans that are way under water or loans on
investment (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/investments/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
properties.

Some states have laws that may specifically prohibit lenders from
pursuing borrowers for the balance of many mortgage loans after
foreclosure, though the particulars vary. Arizona and California are
among these states, according to Steven Bender, a professor at the
University of Oregon (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/u/university_of_oregon/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
School of Law. It?s best to talk to a lawyer to determine your state?s
rules.

In fact, if you want to be sure your lender (or a collection agency
that it may sell your loan to) won?t chase you down, it?s a good idea
to have a lawyer involved with any short sale, deed in lieu or
foreclosure itself. ?You must get the bank to agree in writing that any
deficiency is waived,? said Chip Parker, a lawyer specializing in
foreclosure with Parker & DuFresne in Jacksonville, Fla..

The biggest challenge here may simply be finding someone at the bank to
help. Having a second mortgage will also complicate matters.

YOUR TAXES You also need to consider the taxman. Often, forgiven debts
are taxable as income. Recent legislative changes, however, eliminate
the federal tax burden through 2012 on most primary residence debt that
a lender has reduced through loan restructuring or forgiven during
foreclosure.

Mark Luscombe, principal analyst for CCH, a tax information service,
said that people who sell their home through a short sale or give up
the deed in lieu of foreclosure can also qualify for tax relief if they
use a special tax form, 1099-C, that reflects the amount of debt that
the lender has forgiven.

People who live in states with their own income taxes may avoid a big
bill as well. Some states, like Arizona and California, have introduced
or passed legislation that echoes the federal laws, according to the
National Conference of State Legislatures. Many others tend to mimic
most or all federal income tax laws as a general rule, according to
CCH. Check with an accountant in your state to be sure.

YOUR CREDIT A short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure itself will
almost certainly damage your credit report and score, and the black
mark will last for up to seven years. But the amount of damage it does
will depend on how much other credit trouble you?ve gotten yourself
into with other lenders..

If you?re giving up the home you own, you?ll probably need to rent soon
afterward. Will landlords turn you away once they check your credit and
discover your troubled mortgage? ?If it?s the only thing marring their
credit, it?s probably not a big issue,? said Clay Powell, the director
of the Rental Property Owners Association of Michigan, who added that
good tenants could be scarce in economic environments like this one.

In fact, Todd J. Zywicki, a law professor at George Mason University,
predicted that FICO may have to adjust its credit scores (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-scores/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
to lessen the impact of a foreclosure or similar incident. ?It just
seems obvious that a foreclosure in 2008 or 2009 doesn?t have as much
information value as a foreclosure five years ago,? he said. ?To the
extent that foreclosure doesn?t predict future behavior as much as it
did in the past, you?d expect that the FICO algorithm would change to
adjust for that.?

Craig Watts, a spokesman for FICO, said that was an interesting idea.
?We try not to get involved too much in psychobabble around what is and
isn?t predictive,? he said. ?If the numbers show that foreclosure is
less predictive, then we?ll take it into account in future
redevelopments of the formula.? That would take a minimum of two to
three years, though.

Some lenders aren?t waiting that long to initiate their own foreclosure
destigmatization programs. The Golden 1, one of the nation?s largest
credit unions, now has a mortgage repair loan for people who have lost
a home to foreclosure but want to buy a new one.

It?s hard to imagine that there won?t be a parade of insurance (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/insurance/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
companies, credit card (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-and-debit-cards/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
issuers and mortgage lenders in Golden 1?s wake, even though Fannie Mae
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/fannie_mae/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
and Freddie Mac (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/freddie_mac/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
may be unwilling to guarantee the mortgages of such borrowers for
several years. In fact, Aaron Bresko, the vice president of lending for
BECU, another large credit union based in Washington State, is putting
together a panel called ?How to Lend to the Newly Credit Impaired? for
a conference later this year.

?Good people have bad things happen to them, so how do you find those
people and reach out to them?? he said. ?As the year progresses, it?s
going to be an emerging market.?

How are you handling your mortgage problems?
Write to rlieber at nytimes.com.




-----Inline Message Follows-----


Shean writes:
 
One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did
is that the people that 
would come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not able 
to afford what we wanted to sell it for (which was $350-$400K)
 
There are a least of couple of
us on the Forum that will agree with you about pricing a property at
50%.  However unlogical it appears, failure is often assigned because a
Seller didn't follow the letter of the law (or book) on that point. 
 
I use a more emotional
response to the price by assigning these tags:
 
Ridiculous
Tiny
Small
Medium
Large
 
I find that if a potential
buyer doesn't believe he/she has a chance at getting the property
somewhere between Tiny and Small, they feel deceived and damaged.  And
then  they believe that the property must be stigmatized by some
unknown defect or building flaw. 
 
So I think you are on the
right track, Shean.  Stay away from ridiculous (50%) pricing, and do
the hard work to figure out how to get the property into the 'tiny'
range. 
 
RC Cutcher
Realtor, ABR
Austin Texas Homes, LLC
www.austintexashomes.com
512-848-4449
 
The Short Sale/Foreclosure
Workshop
Trec Provider No. 0623
Course No. 7436
 
Broker Price Opinion Training
Every Friday


-----Inline Message Follows-----


2nd try
 
Sean writes:

One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did is that the people that 
would come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not able 
to afford what we wanted to sell it for (which was $350-$400K)

RC writes:
 
There are a least of couple of us on the
Forum that will agree with you about pricing a property at 50%. 
However unlogical it appears, failure is often assigned because a
Seller didn't follow the letter of the law (or book) on that point. 

I use a more emotional response to the price by assigning these tags:

Ridiculous
Tiny
Small
Medium
Large

I find that if a potential buyer doesn't believe he/she has a chance at
getting the property somewhere between Tiny and Small, they feel
deceived and damaged..  And then  they believe that the property must be
stigmatized by some unknown defect or building flaw. 

So I think you are on the right track, Sean.  Stay away from ridiculous
(50%) pricing, and do the hard work to figure out how to get the
property into the 'tiny' range. 

RC Cutcher
Realtor, ABR
Austin Texas Homes, LLC
www.austintexashomes.com
512-848-4449

The Short Sale/Foreclosure Workshop
Trec Provider No. 0623
Course No. 7436

Broker Price Opinion Training
Every Friday

_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum



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-----Inline Message Follows-----

Glenda,

Let's talk real numbers here.

Co-op prices in NYC are going down, just like the rest of the
nation--people are losing their jobs in massive numbers, and those rich
kids can't afford the Manhattan co-ops anymore -- there is no one to
sell to at the old prices.

YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GET THE PRICE YOU WANT AT THIS TIME NO MATTER WHAT
YOU DO!

Don't start the 5-Day method if you are not really prepared to follow
through.  Sean was offered a lower price because buyers KNEW he wasn't
really going to sell at the high bid price.  When it becomes clear the
seller isn't really going to follow through, the buyers leave without
revealing their top bid.

If you buy Sean's story, why is he using the 5-Day Method again?  If
you believe a Real Estate Broker can get you more 2-3 months from now,
why not offer your home through a Real Estate Broker for 2-3 months and
see if you get what you want, or not.  You can always run a 5-Day Sale.

You are setting yourself up for failure.  You are tweaking something
you don't understand.  This is not going to work!

Bill Effros
Author




V Glenda wrote: 
Hi!  All-
Maybe I am just getting the cold feet...our 5 day sale is
scheduled for this coming weekend and I just read Sean's comment about
pricing...I am also concerned that those who will show up at our open
house cannot really afford the price we want and worst of all will not
qualify to get through the coop board for the same reasons Sean
mentioned.  

In the event that we don't get the price we want and end up not
selling, I am wondering how Sean told the highest bidder of his
decision not to sell and how did the buyer take it?  

Thanks,
Glenda



________________________________
From: "5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com" <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Sent: Saturday, March
14, 2009 12:00:11 PM
Subject: 5-DayForum
Digest, Vol 24, Issue 19

Send 5-DayForum mailing list submissions to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of 5-DayForum digest..."
Today's Topics:

  1. Re: 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 18 (Gary St. Armand)
  2.  Pricing? (Sean Folkson)
  3. Re: 5 Day Sale in Manhattan (kelsey uh)
  4. Re: 5 Day Sale in Manhattan (Kyle Cascioli)
  5. Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan (Bill Effros)
  6.  Pricing? (RC Cutcher)
  7.    Pricing? (RC Cutcher)


-----Inline Message Follows-----


Bill,
 
Have you ever written an article on using your method to
rent an apartment.
I want my property manager to do the same thing, because I
have 5 vacancies
in a 12-unit bldg. I don't know if she'd actually take
time to read your book to follow the directions even though it's fairly
straight forward.


-Gary
I--- On Fri, 3/13/09, 5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com> wrote:


From: 5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Subject: 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 18
To: 5-dayforum at mailman...howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Date: Friday, March 13, 2009, 4:00 PM


Send 5-DayForum mailing list
submissions to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of 5-DayForum digest..."

Today's Topics:

   1. Re: 5 Day Sale in Manhattan (Bill Effros)

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-----Inline Message Follows-----

In this case, the starting number shouldn't matter too much Lance.

One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did is that the people that
would come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not able to
afford what we wanted to sell it for (which was $350-$400K)

We had buyers that loved the house, but were only approved up into the
$320K range.  We had great response to the ad...over 100 people came
over the 2 days, and bids got up to $326,500.  All the buyers told me
they were really looking for something cheaper, but they fell in love
with our place and went higher than they even wanted to.

We chose not to sell, listed with a realtor, and ultimately got $358K
for the house, 2-3 months later.  That sale was this past july.  When I
do my next one in a month or two, I will be "tweaking the system", I'm
sure much to Bill's dismay.  I can afford to do that, because on this
property I'll be selling, I don't really care if it sells or not.  If
it doesn't sell, my wife and I will move into it.

What I'll be doing is listing it for the lowest price we'd accept. 
This will help ensure that any potential buyers who visit can afford to
pay what we want for the house.  in this day and age of internet search
and filters, listing at 50% of what you want might prevent you from
having the right buyers find your property.  If you were looking for a
house, you're looking in a price range.  If you enter a price range of
$150-$200K, you can't afford to pay the $350-$400K the 5 day seller
wants.  And, if you're a consumer looking to spend $350-$400K for a
house, you'll likely never even see the ad for the house listed at
$174,500.  And, if you do, you'll likely assume it's a dump and not
something worth looking at.

sean




-----Inline Message Follows-----

O.K. Thank you

On 3/12/09, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
wrote:
> Kelsey,
>
> You can't get legal advice here -- we're not lawyers.
>
> 5-Day Sales work best when the owner runs them. Other people can
do it,
> but if you have been following this Forum of late you read the
anger of
> many people toward real estate professionals who are widely blamed
for
> profiting from the bubble that preceded this bust.
>
> You can do all the work for Glenda, but she will get a higher
price if
> she does it herself.
>
> Bill Effros
> Author
>
>
>
> kelsey uh wrote:
>>
>> I have been helping Glenda with marketing. I am her friend.
>>
>> I have a real estate agent license. If Glenda goes on business
trip on
>> the inspection days, can I do the auction and round robin for
her? Is
>> it legal in NY state?
>>
>> Your response will be highly appreciated, as I have no time to
check
>> with county clerks and lawyers.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Kelsey
>>
>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> 5-DayForum mailing list
>> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>
>



-----Inline Message Follows-----

Agreed!
 
That's how we do it with with our seller and builder platforms and it
works well.
 
Many buyers today want direct contact with sellers and builders.
 
Best to all, 
 
Kyle Cascioli
www.AuctionBySeller..com 
www.AuctionByBuilder.com 
 
> Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:27:36 -0400
> From: kelseyuh at gmail.com
> To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] 5 Day Sale in Manhattan
> 
> O.K. Thank you
> 
> On 3/12/09, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> > Kelsey,
> >
> > You can't get legal advice here -- we're not lawyers.
> >
> > 5-Day Sales work best when the owner runs them. Other people
can do it,
> > but if you have been following this Forum of late you read
the anger of
> > many people toward real estate professionals who are widely
blamed for
> > profiting from the bubble that preceded this bust.
> >
> > You can do all the work for Glenda, but she will get a higher
price if
> > she does it herself.
> >
> > Bill Effros
> > Author
> >
> >
> >
> > kelsey uh wrote:
> >>
> >> I have been helping Glenda with marketing. I am her
friend.
> >>
> >> I have a real estate agent license. If Glenda goes on
business trip on
> >> the inspection days, can I do the auction and round robin
for her? Is
> >> it legal in NY state?
> >>
> >> Your response will be highly appreciated, as I have no
time to check
> >> with county clerks and lawyers.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Kelsey
> >>
> >>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> 5-DayForum mailing list
> >> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> >> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> >>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

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-----Inline Message Follows-----

Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan


March 14, 2009
Your Money
By RON LIEBER (http://topics.nytimes..com/top/reference/timestopics/people/l/ron_lieber/index.html?inline=nyt-per)

If you?re among the millions of people who will not qualify for the
Obama administration?s program to help troubled homeowners, you?re
probably wondering what you?re supposed to do now.

Perhaps you no longer have enough income to pay your loans (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)..
Or you can afford the payments but don?t qualify for refinancing under
the new plan because the value of your home is too far below the
balance of the loan. If you?re far enough underwater, you?re probably
questioning the wisdom of writing a monthly check on a place that may
take 10 or 15 years to get back to the value it had two or three years
ago. It isn?t easy to come up with the answer, and if you have moral
misgivings about not making good on your mortgage (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/mortgages/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier),
a religious officiant may offer as much useful guidance as a financial
planner (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/planning/financial-planners/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier).

In an economic environment like this one, however, the consequences of
giving up on your mortgage may not be as painful as they were a few
years ago. Yes, it?s almost always preferable to negotiate a better
deal on your existing mortgage than to walk away. But if you can?t work
things out with your lender, you probably won?t be sued. You shouldn?t
receive a major tax bill either. And the damage to your credit will not
be permanent or insurmountable.

Let?s look at these last three in order.

YOUR LENDER First off, let?s define what we mean by ?giving up? on your
current mortgage. It may mean trying for a short sale (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/s/short_selling/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier),
where the lender allows you to sell your home for less than the
mortgage amount. You may also hand over the deed to the home in
exchange for the lender agreeing not to start foreclosure proceedings
(a ?deed in lieu? in industry terms). Then, there?s foreclosure itself,
and the possibility that bankruptcy judges may soon have the power to
adjust the terms of primary mortgages.

That said, just because you?re ineligible under the Obama plan doesn?t
mean that your lender or servicer won?t ultimately adjust your mortgage
anyhow. Collectively, there are enough people in trouble or under water
on their loans that they have plenty of leverage if they?re willing to
play chicken with their lender and threaten to stop paying.

The problem is, the lender can play chicken, too, by threatening to
come after you for the balance of any money you owe ? whether it?s the
difference between what you sell the property for yourself and the
remaining mortgage, or the loan amount left over after the lender sells
your property in foreclosure.

The lender may not follow through, though. ?What our membership is
telling us is that it can be cost-prohibitive to chase down a borrower
who is already in financial distress,? said John Mechem, a spokesman
for the Mortgage Bankers Association. ?You can?t squeeze blood from a
stone.? They may, however, still come after people with high incomes
who walk away from jumbo loans that are way under water or loans on
investment (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/investments/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
properties.

Some states have laws that may specifically prohibit lenders from
pursuing borrowers for the balance of many mortgage loans after
foreclosure, though the particulars vary. Arizona and California are
among these states, according to Steven Bender, a professor at the
University of Oregon (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/u/university_of_oregon/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
School of Law. It?s best to talk to a lawyer to determine your state?s
rules.

In fact, if you want to be sure your lender (or a collection agency
that it may sell your loan to) won?t chase you down, it?s a good idea
to have a lawyer involved with any short sale, deed in lieu or
foreclosure itself. ?You must get the bank to agree in writing that any
deficiency is waived,? said Chip Parker, a lawyer specializing in
foreclosure with Parker & DuFresne in Jacksonville, Fla.

The biggest challenge here may simply be finding someone at the bank to
help. Having a second mortgage will also complicate matters.

YOUR TAXES You also need to consider the taxman. Often, forgiven debts
are taxable as income. Recent legislative changes, however, eliminate
the federal tax burden through 2012 on most primary residence debt that
a lender has reduced through loan restructuring or forgiven during
foreclosure.

Mark Luscombe, principal analyst for CCH, a tax information service,
said that people who sell their home through a short sale or give up
the deed in lieu of foreclosure can also qualify for tax relief if they
use a special tax form, 1099-C, that reflects the amount of debt that
the lender has forgiven.

People who live in states with their own income taxes may avoid a big
bill as well. Some states, like Arizona and California, have introduced
or passed legislation that echoes the federal laws, according to the
National Conference of State Legislatures. Many others tend to mimic
most or all federal income tax laws as a general rule, according to
CCH. Check with an accountant in your state to be sure.

YOUR CREDIT A short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure itself will
almost certainly damage your credit report and score, and the black
mark will last for up to seven years. But the amount of damage it does
will depend on how much other credit trouble you?ve gotten yourself
into with other lenders...

If you?re giving up the home you own, you?ll probably need to rent soon
afterward. Will landlords turn you away once they check your credit and
discover your troubled mortgage? ?If it?s the only thing marring their
credit, it?s probably not a big issue,? said Clay Powell, the director
of the Rental Property Owners Association of Michigan, who added that
good tenants could be scarce in economic environments like this one.

In fact, Todd J. Zywicki, a law professor at George Mason University,
predicted that FICO may have to adjust its credit scores (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-scores/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
to lessen the impact of a foreclosure or similar incident. ?It just
seems obvious that a foreclosure in 2008 or 2009 doesn?t have as much
information value as a foreclosure five years ago,? he said. ?To the
extent that foreclosure doesn?t predict future behavior as much as it
did in the past, you?d expect that the FICO algorithm would change to
adjust for that.?

Craig Watts, a spokesman for FICO, said that was an interesting idea.
?We try not to get involved too much in psychobabble around what is and
isn?t predictive,? he said. ?If the numbers show that foreclosure is
less predictive, then we?ll take it into account in future
redevelopments of the formula.? That would take a minimum of two to
three years, though.

Some lenders aren?t waiting that long to initiate their own foreclosure
destigmatization programs. The Golden 1, one of the nation?s largest
credit unions, now has a mortgage repair loan for people who have lost
a home to foreclosure but want to buy a new one.

It?s hard to imagine that there won?t be a parade of insurance (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/insurance/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
companies, credit card (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-and-debit-cards/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
issuers and mortgage lenders in Golden 1?s wake, even though Fannie Mae
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/fannie_mae/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
and Freddie Mac (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/freddie_mac/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
may be unwilling to guarantee the mortgages of such borrowers for
several years. In fact, Aaron Bresko, the vice president of lending for
BECU, another large credit union based in Washington State, is putting
together a panel called ?How to Lend to the Newly Credit Impaired? for
a conference later this year.

?Good people have bad things happen to them, so how do you find those
people and reach out to them?? he said. ?As the year progresses, it?s
going to be an emerging market.?

How are you handling your mortgage problems?
Write to rlieber at nytimes.com.




-----Inline Message Follows-----


Shean writes:
 
One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did
is that the people that 
would come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not able 
to afford what we wanted to sell it for (which was $350-$400K)
 
There are a least of couple of
us on the Forum that will agree with you about pricing a property at
50%.  However unlogical it appears, failure is often assigned because a
Seller didn't follow the letter of the law (or book) on that point. 
 
I use a more emotional
response to the price by assigning these tags:
 
Ridiculous
Tiny
Small
Medium
Large
 
I find that if a potential
buyer doesn't believe he/she has a chance at getting the property
somewhere between Tiny and Small, they feel deceived and damaged.  And
then  they believe that the property must be stigmatized by some
unknown defect or building flaw. 
 
So I think you are on the
right track, Shean..  Stay away from ridiculous (50%) pricing, and do
the hard work to figure out how to get the property into the 'tiny'
range. 
 
RC Cutcher
Realtor, ABR
Austin Texas Homes, LLC
www.austintexashomes.com
512-848-4449
 
The Short Sale/Foreclosure
Workshop
Trec Provider No. 0623
Course No. 7436
 
Broker Price Opinion Training
Every Friday


-----Inline Message Follows-----


2nd try
 
Sean writes:

One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did is that the people that 
would come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not able 
to afford what we wanted to sell it for (which was $350-$400K)

RC writes:
 
There are a least of couple of us on the
Forum that will agree with you about pricing a property at 50%. 
However unlogical it appears, failure is often assigned because a
Seller didn't follow the letter of the law (or book) on that point. 

I use a more emotional response to the price by assigning these tags:

Ridiculous
Tiny
Small
Medium
Large

I find that if a potential buyer doesn't believe he/she has a chance at
getting the property somewhere between Tiny and Small, they feel
deceived and damaged.  And then  they believe that the property must be
stigmatized by some unknown defect or building flaw. 

So I think you are on the right track, Sean.  Stay away from ridiculous
(50%) pricing, and do the hard work to figure out how to get the
property into the 'tiny' range. 

RC Cutcher
Realtor, ABR
Austin Texas Homes, LLC
www.austintexashomes.com
512-848-4449

The Short Sale/Foreclosure Workshop
Trec Provider No. 0623
Course No. 7436

Broker Price Opinion Training
Every Friday

_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
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-----Inline Message Follows-----


Thank you Bill? I live in Central Florida , which is ground zero when it comes to
housing. I agree with you that the formula works for some parts of the country
but not others? They actually may change from one neighborhood to
another. 
 
My intention is to give the average home
owner the tools necessary to give them an idea of what?s taking place in
their own area. As I said, it?s just a starting point or what I would
call a 10,000 view from above.
 
After all, it?s always the buyer
that will determine what something is worth and no amount of research, comparables,
appraisal, or anything else really matters. I learned that from doing many
5-day sales on properties that we?ve owned and truly learned it when I
sold my own residence in August 2006 using the 5-day method: I had over 150
people attend, over 40 initial bids, and sold it AS-IS by the end of the
weekend to a Real Estate Attorney of all people? After the sale, many of
the so called professionals contacted me to tell me that I gave the place away
and could have gotten at least 40K more for it had I used their services. A
year later, all of these so called pros said that I really got top dollar for
it.
 
-Naji
 

________________________________
 
From:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 9:49
AM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Pricing?
 
Naji,

Thanks for spending the time to provide so much detail to the list.  It's
extremely helpful to have a concrete starting point.

Where are you?

Your suggested formulas may work for your region, but they are not right for
other places.  

Still, they suggest a methodology for coming up with a starting price.

The whole point of the 5-Day Method is that it is possible for anyone to know
in 5 days what their home is worth, and to sell it for current market value.

First, somehow, you must come up with some idea of how much your home is
currently worth.

Then, if you follow my book, you offer your home for 1/2 that amount.

If you get 25 responses by Friday night, you can be sure your home is worth
much more than the starting price.  If you don't get 25 responses by
Friday night, you don't know anything...except that you should call off your
sale until you understand your local market better.

Where I live, homes are still worth pretty much what they were purchased for up
to 2 years ago.  There are no nearby foreclosures.  Square footage is
more important with regard to zoning permitted than current home size. etc.

But, at least you have provided a way for people to think that makes some
sense.  They MUST come up with some starting price -- some number they
think is possible at this time.

If they offer their home at 50% of what they believe their home is currently
worth, and fail to get 25 responses by Friday night, they can be pretty sure
their valuation is too high, and they MUST go back to the drawing board to
figure out current market value and deal with it.  They should NOT say
"19 is close enough, let's just tough it out..."

How they do this is up to them, but you have provided some valuable mechanisms
for coming up with a ballpark number that people must establish before they can
proceed with the 5-Day Method.

Any other formula or way of coming up with a number would also be helpful if
anyone else has more ideas.

Bill Effros
Author



Naji wrote: 
Factors
to use when pricing your home:
 
	1. If you purchased your home during the bubble (last 5 - 7 Years), you?re SOL? The home is not worth anything close to what you think its worth. Expect to do a short sale or walk away from it. 
	2. If you?ve owned your home for a while:
	1. Get the last 3-5 sales in your neighborhood or within ? mile of your home for the last 3 months. Figure out the Price Per Square foot and apply to your home? This is just to give you an idea/starting point? Sale  prices are not accurate in many cases due to seller concessions, giveaways, and other costs that are lumped in the sale price.
	2. Find out how many foreclosures/bank owned properties are in your neighborhood or within ? mile of your home? This will give you an idea of what the distressed properties nearby are going for to see what you?re competing against
	3. Also, see what?s on the market in your neighborhood or within ? mile of your home and figure out the average asking price per square foot. Again to see what others are asking for their homes? This again is also to see what others are ?hoping? to get for their property
	4. If you are the first owner of the house, multiply your original purchase price by 3%-5% compounded annually. If you?re not the first owner, find out what the first owner paid for the property and run the numbers accordingly? For example, if you or the first home owner purchased the home in 1990 for 100K, 3% appreciation over the last 19 years = $175,350, 4% = $210,685, 5% = $252,695
 
This information should at least give you
a range of what your home ?should? be worth in a normal
market? If the number you?re expecting is much higher than what the
data indicates, then you need to get realistic or plan on staying in the home
until the tide shifts? in this case is at least 10 years.
 
-Naji
 

________________________________
 
From:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009
3:53 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Pricing?
 
OK,

Here we go again.

RC Cutcher is a real estate professional in the market every day.  He
actually knows what homes are selling for in his area, and is constantly buying
and selling homes for his own account.

RC Cutcher is NOT a private home seller.

Private home owners know what they paid for their homes, a short while or a
long while ago, and little else.

Brokers don't have a clue, -- they told you your home was worth what you paid
when you bought it.  Now they are telling you they can't sell it for that
amount, but if you list with them, maybe they can find you a buyer sometime in
the future for some amount they have imagined out of thin air.

Here's what I'm saying:

Take the number you think your home is currently worth -- based on any factors
you choose to use -- and TEST THAT NUMBER BEFORE WASTING ANY MORE TIME OR
MONEY!

You test by offering your home for just 3 days in the best media you can think
of in your region.

If you get 25 responses by Friday night you can know that your home is worth
substantially more than the advertised price at the current time.  It
could be worth twice as much as the advertised price.  It could be worth a
little less.  It could be worth a little more.  But you can be
certain that the advertised price was EXTREMELY ATTRACTIVE to a large number of
people looking to buy homes at the present time.

That's what you know.  Nothing more.  Nothing less.

Now, if you start fudging around with your starting price, or the number of
responses you get...you don't know anything for sure...and in my humble opinion
you are looking for failure if you proceed with a 5-Day Sale without really
knowing if your starting price is wildly below the price you can expect to get.

When RC runs 5-Day Sales he has many additional properties for sale.  If
he ropes them in on one price and sells a different home for a different price,
of course many participants accuse him of a bait and switch, because that's
exactly what he has done.

But that is not what private home sellers are doing, at all.  

When private home sellers sell their homes using the 5-Day Method properly
(start at an honest 50% -- take the high bid) nobody is mad at them. 
People who don't have the money are grateful for being treated like everyone
else, and being allowed to inspect a fine home slightly beyond their
means.  They only get mad if you treat them differently from anybody else,
or insult their ability to ever own your home.

People who have the means to afford the house know they have paid a fair price
at the current time.

The formulas presented in the book have been developed over 20 years of trial
and error.  They work in good times.   They work in bad
times.  They work more often for more people than any other formulas I've
been asked to consider.

Don't re-invent this wheel.  Don't listen to the advice of people whose
circumstances are significantly different from your own.

Bill Effros
Author





RC Cutcher wrote: 
2nd try
 
Sean writes:

One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did is that the people that 
would come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not able 
to afford what we wanted to sell it for (which was $350-$400K)

RC writes:
 
There are a least of couple of us on the Forum that
will agree with you about pricing a property at 50%.  However unlogical it
appears, failure is often assigned because a Seller didn't follow the letter of
the law (or book) on that point. 

I use a more emotional response to the price by assigning these tags:

Ridiculous
Tiny
Small
Medium
Large

I find that if a potential buyer doesn't believe he/she has a chance at getting
the property somewhere between Tiny and Small, they feel deceived and
damaged.  And then  they believe that the property must be
stigmatized by some unknown defect or building flaw. 

So I think you are on the right track, Sean.  Stay away from ridiculous
(50%) pricing, and do the hard work to figure out how to get the property into
the 'tiny' range. 

RC Cutcher
Realtor, ABR
Austin Texas Homes, LLC
www.austintexashomes.com
512-848-4449

The Short Sale/Foreclosure Workshop
Trec Provider No. 0623
Course No. 7436

Broker Price Opinion Training
Every Friday
  
  
  

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-----Inline Message Follows-----


Realtors don?t find buyers? Buyers find
the Realtors and use their service to buy. You can always offer a commission
for a Realtor that brings you a buyer and add a buyer?s premium to the mix.
 
-Naji
 

________________________________
 
From:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Kyle Vandegriff
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009
11:48 PM
To: 5-dayforum at howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Subject: [5-DayForum] Realtor
Attendance
 
Hello all.  I?m wondering if it is advisable to try to entice realtors
to attend my 5-day with clients looking to buy the type of house I?m offering. 
I know I?m not supposed to protect the broker, but I feel this might help to
get the real buyers to the house. The only reason I?m considering this action
is because I?ve painted myself into a corner.  I really really need to sell my
house the weekend I?m offering it because of a forced move (military).  I live
in a fairly rural and economically depressed town in south Texas and am concerned about the lack of
volume of home sales in the area over the past year.
 
In my situation I feel it might be a good tradeoff to potentially have
to pay a small commission to make the sale happen vs. certainly having to pay a
large one if the real buyers don?t turn out.  Or is this just normal pre-sale
jitters and I should stick to the book?
 
What sort of minimum commission or flat fee would be sufficient to
entice them to attend (about a $100,000 house)? 
 
Thanks!
 
-Kyle
 

-----Inline Message Follows-----


Bill hit it right on the nail ?YOU
ARE NOT GOING TO GET THE PRICE YOU WANT AT THIS TIME NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO!? 
 
We all WANT a certain price or NEED to get a certain
price, however, what we WANT, NEED, and GET for a house will never be the same.
 
-Naji
 

________________________________
 
From:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 10:45
AM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Pricing
 
Glenda,

Let's talk real numbers here.

Co-op prices in NYC are going down, just like the rest of the nation--people
are losing their jobs in massive numbers, and those rich kids can't afford the Manhattan co-ops anymore
-- there is no one to sell to at the old prices.

YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GET THE PRICE YOU WANT AT THIS TIME NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO!

Don't start the 5-Day method if you are not really prepared to follow
through.  Sean was offered a lower price because buyers KNEW he wasn't
really going to sell at the high bid price.  When it becomes clear the
seller isn't really going to follow through, the buyers leave without revealing
their top bid.

If you buy Sean's story, why is he using the 5-Day Method again?  If you
believe a Real Estate Broker can get you more 2-3 months from now, why not
offer your home through a Real Estate Broker for 2-3 months and see if you get
what you want, or not.  You can always run a 5-Day Sale .

You are setting yourself up for failure.  You are tweaking something you
don't understand.  This is not going to work!

Bill Effros
Author




V Glenda wrote: 
Hi!  All-
Maybe I am just getting the cold feet....our 5 day sale
is scheduled for this coming weekend and I just read Sean's comment about
pricing...I am also concerned that those who will show up at our open house
cannot really afford the price we want and worst of all will not qualify to get
through the coop board for the same reasons Sean mentioned.  
 
In the event that we don't get the price we want and
end up not selling, I am wondering how Sean told the highest bidder of his
decision not to sell and how did the buyer take it?  
 
Thanks,
Glenda
 

________________________________
 
From:"5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com" <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009
12:00:11 PM
Subject: 5-DayForum Digest, Vol
24, Issue 19

Send 5-DayForum mailing list submissions to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of 5-DayForum digest..."
Today's Topics:

  1. Re: 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 18 (Gary St. Armand)
  2.  Pricing? (Sean Folkson)
  3. Re: 5 Day Sale in Manhattan (kelsey uh)
  4. Re: 5 Day Sale in Manhattan (Kyle Cascioli)
  5. Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan (Bill Effros)
  6.  Pricing? (RC Cutcher)
  7.    Pricing? (RC Cutcher)


-----Inline Message Follows-----
Bill,
 
Have you ever written an article on using your method to rent an apartment.
I want my property manager to do the same thing, because I have 5 vacancies
in a 12-unit bldg. I don't know if she'd actually take time to read your book to follow the directions even though it's fairly straight forward.
- Gary
I--- On Fri, 3/13/09, 5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com> wrote:

From: 5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Subject: 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 18
To: 5-dayforum at mailman..howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Date: Friday, March 13, 2009, 4:00 PM
Send 5-DayForum mailing list submissions to
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   1. Re: 5 Day Sale in Manhattan (Bill Effros)
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-----Inline Message Follows-----

In this case, the starting number shouldn't matter too much Lance.

One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did is that the people that would
come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not able to afford what
we wanted to sell it for (which was $350-$400K)

We had buyers that loved the house, but were only approved up into the $320K
range..  We had great response to the ad...over 100 people came over the 2
days, and bids got up to $326,500.  All the buyers told me they were
really looking for something cheaper, but they fell in love with our place and
went higher than they even wanted to.

We chose not to sell, listed with a realtor, and ultimately got $358K for the
house, 2-3 months later.  That sale was this past july.  When I do my
next one in a month or two, I will be "tweaking the system", I'm sure
much to Bill's dismay.  I can afford to do that, because on this property
I'll be selling, I don't really care if it sells or not.  If it doesn't
sell, my wife and I will move into it.

What I'll be doing is listing it for the lowest price we'd accept.  This
will help ensure that any potential buyers who visit can afford to pay what we
want for the house.  in this day and age of internet search and filters,
listing at 50% of what you want might prevent you from having the right buyers
find your property.  If you were looking for a house, you're looking in a
price range.  If you enter a price range of $150-$200K, you can't afford
to pay the $350-$400K the 5 day seller wants.  And, if you're a consumer
looking to spend $350-$400K for a house, you'll likely never even see the ad
for the house listed at $174,500.  And, if you do, you'll likely assume
it's a dump and not something worth looking at.

sean




-----Inline Message Follows-----

O.K. Thank you

On 3/12/09, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
wrote:
> Kelsey,
>
> You can't get legal advice here -- we're not lawyers.
>
> 5-Day Sales work best when the owner runs them. Other people can do it,
> but if you have been following this Forum of late you read the anger of
> many people toward real estate professionals who are widely blamed for
> profiting from the bubble that preceded this bust.
>
> You can do all the work for Glenda, but she will get a higher price if
> she does it herself.
>
> Bill Effros
> Author
>
>
>
> kelsey uh wrote:
>>
>> I have been helping Glenda with marketing. I am her friend.
>>
>> I have a real estate agent license. If Glenda goes on business trip on
>> the inspection days, can I do the auction and round robin for her? Is
>> it legal in NY state?
>>
>> Your response will be highly appreciated, as I have no time to check
>> with county clerks and lawyers.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Kelsey
>>
>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> 5-DayForum mailing list
>> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>
>



-----Inline Message Follows-----

Agreed!
 
That's how we do it with with our seller and builder platforms and it
works well.
 
Many buyers today want direct contact with sellers and builders.
 
Best to all, 
 
Kyle Cascioli
www.AuctionBySeller.com 
www.AuctionByBuilder.com 
 
> Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:27:36 -0400
> From: kelseyuh at gmail.com
> To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] 5 Day Sale in Manhattan
> 
> O.K. Thank you
> 
> On 3/12/09, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> > Kelsey,
> >
> > You can't get legal advice here -- we're not lawyers.
> >
> > 5-Day Sales work best when the owner runs them.. Other people can do
it,
> > but if you have been following this Forum of late you read the anger
of
> > many people toward real estate professionals who are widely blamed
for
> > profiting from the bubble that preceded this bust.
> >
> > You can do all the work for Glenda, but she will get a higher price
if
> > she does it herself.
> >
> > Bill Effros
> > Author
> >
> >
> >
> > kelsey uh wrote:
> >>
> >> I have been helping Glenda with marketing. I am her friend.
> >>
> >> I have a real estate agent license. If Glenda goes on business
trip on
> >> the inspection days, can I do the auction and round robin for
her? Is
> >> it legal in NY state?
> >>
> >> Your response will be highly appreciated, as I have no time to
check
> >> with county clerks and lawyers.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Kelsey
> >>
> >>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> 5-DayForum mailing list
> >> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> >> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> >>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

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Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan


March 14, 2009
Your Money
By RON LIEBER (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/l/ron_lieber/index.html?inline=nyt-per)

If you?re among the millions of people who will not qualify for the Obama
administration?s program to help troubled homeowners, you?re probably wondering
what you?re supposed to do now.

Perhaps you no longer have enough income to pay your loans (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier).
Or you can afford the payments but don?t qualify for refinancing under the new
plan because the value of your home is too far below the balance of the loan.
If you?re far enough underwater, you?re probably questioning the wisdom of
writing a monthly check on a place that may take 10 or 15 years to get back to
the value it had two or three years ago. It isn?t easy to come up with the
answer, and if you have moral misgivings about not making good on your mortgage
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/mortgages/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier),
a religious officiant may offer as much useful guidance as a financial planner (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/planning/financial-planners/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)..

In an economic environment like this one, however, the consequences of giving
up on your mortgage may not be as painful as they were a few years ago. Yes, it?s
almost always preferable to negotiate a better deal on your existing mortgage
than to walk away. But if you can?t work things out with your lender, you
probably won?t be sued. You shouldn?t receive a major tax bill either. And the
damage to your credit will not be permanent or insurmountable.

Let?s look at these last three in order.

YOUR LENDER First off, let?s define what we mean by ?giving up? on your current
mortgage. It may mean trying for a short sale (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/s/short_selling/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier),
where the lender allows you to sell your home for less than the mortgage
amount. You may also hand over the deed to the home in exchange for the lender
agreeing not to start foreclosure proceedings (a ?deed in lieu? in industry
terms). Then, there?s foreclosure itself, and the possibility that bankruptcy
judges may soon have the power to adjust the terms of primary mortgages.

That said, just because you?re ineligible under the Obama plan doesn?t mean
that your lender or servicer won?t ultimately adjust your mortgage anyhow.
Collectively, there are enough people in trouble or under water on their loans
that they have plenty of leverage if they?re willing to play chicken with their
lender and threaten to stop paying.

The problem is, the lender can play chicken, too, by threatening to come after
you for the balance of any money you owe ? whether it?s the difference between
what you sell the property for yourself and the remaining mortgage, or the loan
amount left over after the lender sells your property in foreclosure.

The lender may not follow through, though. ?What our membership is telling us
is that it can be cost-prohibitive to chase down a borrower who is already in
financial distress,? said John Mechem, a spokesman for the Mortgage Bankers
Association. ?You can?t squeeze blood from a stone.? They may, however, still
come after people with high incomes who walk away from jumbo loans that are way
under water or loans on investment (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/investments/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
properties.

Some states have laws that may specifically prohibit lenders from pursuing
borrowers for the balance of many mortgage loans after foreclosure, though the
particulars vary. Arizona and California are among these states, according to Steven
Bender, a professor at the University 
of Oregon (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/u/university_of_oregon/index.html?inline=nyt-org) School of Law . It?s best to talk to a lawyer to
determine your state?s rules.

In fact, if you want to be sure your lender (or a collection agency that it may
sell your loan to) won?t chase you down, it?s a good idea to have a lawyer
involved with any short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure itself. ?You must get
the bank to agree in writing that any deficiency is waived,? said Chip Parker,
a lawyer specializing in foreclosure with Parker & DuFresne in Jacksonville , Fla.

The biggest challenge here may simply be finding someone at the bank to help.
Having a second mortgage will also complicate matters.

YOUR TAXES You also need to consider the taxman. Often, forgiven debts are
taxable as income. Recent legislative changes, however, eliminate the federal
tax burden through 2012 on most primary residence debt that a lender has
reduced through loan restructuring or forgiven during foreclosure.

Mark Luscombe, principal analyst for CCH, a tax information service, said that
people who sell their home through a short sale or give up the deed in lieu of
foreclosure can also qualify for tax relief if they use a special tax form,
1099-C, that reflects the amount of debt that the lender has forgiven.

People who live in states with their own income taxes may avoid a big bill as
well. Some states, like Arizona and California , have
introduced or passed legislation that echoes the federal laws, according to the
National Conference of State Legislatures. Many others tend to mimic most or
all federal income tax laws as a general rule, according to CCH. Check with an
accountant in your state to be sure.

YOUR CREDIT A short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure itself will almost
certainly damage your credit report and score, and the black mark will last for
up to seven years. But the amount of damage it does will depend on how much
other credit trouble you?ve gotten yourself into with other lenders..

If you?re giving up the home you own, you?ll probably need to rent soon
afterward. Will landlords turn you away once they check your credit and
discover your troubled mortgage? ?If it?s the only thing marring their credit,
it?s probably not a big issue,? said Clay Powell, the director of the Rental
Property Owners Association of Michigan, who added that good tenants could be
scarce in economic environments like this one.

In fact, Todd J. Zywicki, a law professor at George Mason  University , predicted
that FICO may have to adjust its credit scores (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-scores/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
to lessen the impact of a foreclosure or similar incident. ?It just seems
obvious that a foreclosure in 2008 or 2009 doesn?t have as much information
value as a foreclosure five years ago,? he said. ?To the extent that
foreclosure doesn?t predict future behavior as much as it did in the past,
you?d expect that the FICO algorithm would change to adjust for that.?

Craig Watts, a spokesman for FICO, said that was an interesting idea. ?We try
not to get involved too much in psychobabble around what is and isn?t
predictive,? he said. ?If the numbers show that foreclosure is less predictive,
then we?ll take it into account in future redevelopments of the formula.? That
would take a minimum of two to three years, though.

Some lenders aren?t waiting that long to initiate their own foreclosure
destigmatization programs. The Golden 1, one of the nation?s largest credit
unions, now has a mortgage repair loan for people who have lost a home to
foreclosure but want to buy a new one.

It?s hard to imagine that there won?t be a parade of insurance (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/insurance/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
companies, credit card (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-and-debit-cards/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
issuers and mortgage lenders in Golden 1?s wake, even though Fannie Mae (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/fannie_mae/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
and Freddie Mac (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/freddie_mac/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
may be unwilling to guarantee the mortgages of such borrowers for several
years. In fact, Aaron Bresko, the vice president of lending for BECU, another
large credit union based in Washington State, is putting together a panel
called ?How to Lend to the Newly Credit Impaired? for a conference later this
year..

?Good people have bad things happen to them, so how do you find those people
and reach out to them?? he said. ?As the year progresses, it?s going to be an
emerging market.?

How are you handling your mortgage problems?
Write to rlieber at nytimes.com.




-----Inline Message Follows-----
Shean writes:
 
One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did is that
the people that 
would come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not able 
to afford what we wanted to sell it for (which was $350-$400K)
 
There are a least of couple of us on the Forum that
will agree with you about pricing a property at 50%.  However unlogical it
appears, failure is often assigned because a Seller didn't follow the letter of
the law (or book) on that point. 
 
I use a more emotional response to the price by
assigning these tags:
 
Ridiculous
Tiny
Small
Medium
Large
 
I find that if a potential buyer doesn't believe
he/she has a chance at getting the property somewhere between Tiny and Small,
they feel deceived and damaged.  And then  they believe that the
property must be stigmatized by some unknown defect or building flaw. 
 
So I think you are on the right track, Shean. 
Stay away from ridiculous (50%) pricing, and do the hard work to figure
out how to get the property into the 'tiny' range. 
 
RC Cutcher
Realtor, ABR
Austin Texas Homes, LLC
www..austintexashomes.com
512-848-4449
 
The Short Sale/Foreclosure Workshop
Trec Provider No. 0623
Course No. 7436
 
Broker Price Opinion Training
Every Friday
 


-----Inline Message Follows-----
2nd try
 
Sean writes:

One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did is that the people that 
would come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not able 
to afford what we wanted to sell it for (which was $350-$400K)

RC writes:
 
There are a least of couple of us on the Forum that
will agree with you about pricing a property at 50%.  However unlogical it
appears, failure is often assigned because a Seller didn't follow the letter of
the law (or book) on that point. 

I use a more emotional response to the price by assigning these tags:

Ridiculous
Tiny
Small
Medium
Large

I find that if a potential buyer doesn't believe he/she has a chance at getting
the property somewhere between Tiny and Small, they feel deceived and
damaged.  And then  they believe that the property must be
stigmatized by some unknown defect or building flaw. 

So I think you are on the right track, Sean.  Stay away from ridiculous
(50%) pricing, and do the hard work to figure out how to get the property into
the 'tiny' range. 

RC Cutcher
Realtor, ABR
Austin Texas Homes, LLC
www.austintexashomes.com
512-848-4449

The Short Sale/Foreclosure Workshop
Trec Provider No. 0623
Course No. 7436

Broker Price Opinion Training
Every Friday
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-----Inline Message Follows-----

I've have had 50+ call pryor to sale but have had only 15 show and 4 bid. The highest is 10k from what I need. Do u guys think I will get it?  Any advice ?

Sent from my iPhone



-----Inline Message Follows-----

Wayne,

Play it straight -- take what you get -- few people are getting anywhere near this close at this time.

Keep texting to the list, and a people will reply.

There is no pattern to what will happen from this point forward, however you have run your sale properly, and you will get the most you can get on this weekend.

Continue to tell people you will sell to the high bidder without reservation -- if you have to start dancing on Monday morning, people on this list will help you call the tune.

Bill Effros
Author



Wayne Giese wrote:
> I've have had 50+ call pryor to sale but have had only 15 show and 4  bid. The highest is 10k from what I need. Do u guys think I will get  it?  Any advice ?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> 
>  



-----Inline Message Follows-----

Naji,

OK, now I see where your advice is coming from!

Wow.

What has happened in your neck of the woods is truly unimaginable --
even after it's happened to you.

Please continue to give us your perspective -- you are like a distant
early warning for the rest of us.

What will be hard for you to understand is the extent to which your
experiences have NOT been mirrored in some other places up to this time.

Will the bank bailout spare NYC from your fate?

Will Google spare San Francisco from your fate?

Stay tuned to this channel.  Most of the country is somewhere
in-between you and those who have not yet seen a serious price decline
in the current value of real estate.

Is there anything that can turn things around?  Or will most
communities approach your level of value erosion?

I gather you have been able to stay on your feet in the Real Estate
market.  Everyone will want to know how you have managed to do that.  

Thanks for all your input -- it helps everyone if we can more clearly
see where we all might be headed.

Bill Effros
Author



Naji wrote: 
Thank you
Bill? I live in Central Florida ,
which is ground zero when it comes to
housing. I agree with you that the formula works for some parts of the
country
but not others? They actually may change from one neighborhood to
another. 
 
My intention
is to give the average home
owner the tools necessary to give them an idea of what?s taking place
in
their own area. As I said, it?s just a starting point or what I would
call a 10,000 view from above.
 
After all,
it?s always the buyer
that will determine what something is worth and no amount of research,
comparables,
appraisal, or anything else really matters. I learned that from doing
many
5-day sales on properties that we?ve owned and truly learned it when I
sold my own residence in August 2006 using the 5-day method: I had over
150
people attend, over 40 initial bids, and sold it AS-IS by the end of
the
weekend to a Real Estate Attorney of all people? After the sale, many
of
the so called professionals contacted me to tell me that I gave the
place away
and could have gotten at least 40K more for it had I used their
services. A
year later, all of these so called pros said that I really got top
dollar for
it..
 
-Naji
 

________________________________

From:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Effros
Sent: Sunday, March
15, 2009 9:49
AM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re:
[5-DayForum] Pricing?
 
Naji,

Thanks for spending the time to provide so much detail to the list. 
It's
extremely helpful to have a concrete starting point..

Where are you?

Your suggested formulas may work for your region, but they are not
right for
other places.  

Still, they suggest a methodology for coming up with a starting price.

The whole point of the 5-Day Method is that it is possible for anyone
to know
in 5 days what their home is worth, and to sell it for current market
value.

First, somehow, you must come up with some idea of how much your home
is
currently worth.

Then, if you follow my book, you offer your home for 1/2 that amount.

If you get 25 responses by Friday night, you can be sure your home is
worth
much more than the starting price.  If you don't get 25 responses by
Friday night, you don't know anything...except that you should call off
your
sale until you understand your local market better.

Where I live, homes are still worth pretty much what they were
purchased for up
to 2 years ago.  There are no nearby foreclosures.  Square footage is
more important with regard to zoning permitted than current home size.
etc.

But, at least you have provided a way for people to think that makes
some
sense.  They MUST come up with some starting price -- some number they
think is possible at this time.

If they offer their home at 50% of what they believe their home is
currently
worth, and fail to get 25 responses by Friday night, they can be pretty
sure
their valuation is too high, and they MUST go back to the drawing board
to
figure out current market value and deal with it.  They should NOT say
"19 is close enough, let's just tough it out...."

How they do this is up to them, but you have provided some valuable
mechanisms
for coming up with a ballpark number that people must establish before
they can
proceed with the 5-Day Method.

Any other formula or way of coming up with a number would also be
helpful if
anyone else has more ideas.

Bill Effros
Author



Naji wrote: 
Factors
to use when pricing your home:
 
	1. If you purchased your
home during the bubble (last 5 - 7 Years), you?re SOL? The home is not
worth anything close to what you think its worth. Expect to do a short
sale or walk away from it. 
	2. If you?ve owned your home
for a while:
	1. Get the last 3-5 sales in
your neighborhood or within ? mile of your home for the last 3 months.
Figure out the Price Per Square foot and apply to your home? This is
just to give you an idea/starting point? Sale 
prices are not accurate in many cases due to seller concessions,
giveaways, and other costs that are lumped in the sale price..
	2. Find out how many
foreclosures/bank owned properties are in your neighborhood or within ?
mile of your home? This will give you an idea of what the distressed
properties nearby are going for to see what you?re competing against
	3. Also, see what?s on the
market in your neighborhood or within ? mile of your home and figure
out the average asking price per square foot. Again to see what others
are asking for their homes? This again is also to see what others are
?hoping? to get for their property
	4. If you are the first
owner of the house, multiply your original purchase price by 3%-5%
compounded annually. If you?re not the first owner, find out what the
first owner paid for the property and run the numbers accordingly? For
example, if you or the first home owner purchased the home in 1990 for
100K, 3% appreciation over the last 19 years = $175,350, 4% = $210,685,
5% = $252,695
 
This
information should at least give you
a range of what your home ?should? be worth in a normal
market? If the number you?re expecting is much higher than what the
data indicates, then you need to get realistic or plan on staying in
the home
until the tide shifts? in this case is at least 10 years.
 
-Naji
 

________________________________

From:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Effros
Sent: Saturday, March
14, 2009
3:53 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re:
[5-DayForum] Pricing?
 
OK,

Here we go again.

RC Cutcher is a real estate professional in the market every day.  He
actually knows what homes are selling for in his area, and is
constantly buying
and selling homes for his own account.

RC Cutcher is NOT a private home seller.

Private home owners know what they paid for their homes, a short while
or a
long while ago, and little else.

Brokers don't have a clue, -- they told you your home was worth what
you paid
when you bought it.  Now they are telling you they can't sell it for
that
amount, but if you list with them, maybe they can find you a buyer
sometime in
the future for some amount they have imagined out of thin air.

Here's what I'm saying:

Take the number you think your home is currently worth -- based on any
factors
you choose to use -- and TEST THAT NUMBER BEFORE WASTING ANY MORE TIME
OR
MONEY!

You test by offering your home for just 3 days in the best media you
can think
of in your region.

If you get 25 responses by Friday night you can know that your home is
worth
substantially more than the advertised price at the current time.  It
could be worth twice as much as the advertised price.  It could be
worth a
little less.  It could be worth a little more.  But you can be
certain that the advertised price was EXTREMELY ATTRACTIVE to a large
number of
people looking to buy homes at the present time.

That's what you know.  Nothing more.  Nothing less.

Now, if you start fudging around with your starting price, or the
number of
responses you get...you don't know anything for sure...and in my humble
opinion
you are looking for failure if you proceed with a 5-Day Sale without
really
knowing if your starting price is wildly below the price you can expect
to get.

When RC runs 5-Day Sales he has many additional properties for sale. 
If
he ropes them in on one price and sells a different home for a
different price,
of course many participants accuse him of a bait and switch, because
that's
exactly what he has done.

But that is not what private home sellers are doing, at all.  

When private home sellers sell their homes using the 5-Day Method
properly
(start at an honest 50% -- take the high bid) nobody is mad at them. 
People who don't have the money are grateful for being treated like
everyone
else, and being allowed to inspect a fine home slightly beyond their
means.  They only get mad if you treat them differently from anybody
else,
or insult their ability to ever own your home.

People who have the means to afford the house know they have paid a
fair price
at the current time.

The formulas presented in the book have been developed over 20 years of
trial
and error.  They work in good times.   They work in bad
times.  They work more often for more people than any other formulas
I've
been asked to consider.

Don't re-invent this wheel.  Don't listen to the advice of people whose
circumstances are significantly different from your own.

Bill Effros
Author





RC Cutcher wrote: 
2nd try
 
Sean writes:

One concern I found with the 5-Day sale I did is that the people that 
would come view a house that we advertised at $174,500 were not able 
to afford what we wanted to sell it for (which was $350-$400K)

RC writes:
 
There are a least of
couple of us on the Forum that
will agree with you about pricing a property at 50%..  However unlogical
it
appears, failure is often assigned because a Seller didn't follow the
letter of
the law (or book) on that point. 

I use a more emotional response to the price by assigning these tags:

Ridiculous
Tiny
Small
Medium
Large

I find that if a potential buyer doesn't believe he/she has a chance at
getting
the property somewhere between Tiny and Small, they feel deceived and
damaged.  And then  they believe that the property must be
stigmatized by some unknown defect or building flaw. 

So I think you are on the right track, Sean.  Stay away from ridiculous
(50%) pricing, and do the hard work to figure out how to get the
property into
the 'tiny' range. 

RC Cutcher
Realtor, ABR
Austin Texas Homes, LLC
www.austintexashomes.com
512-848-4449

The Short Sale/Foreclosure Workshop
Trec Provider No. 0623
Course No. 7436

Broker Price Opinion Training
Every Friday
  
  
  

________________________________
 

  
  
  
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-----Inline Message Follows-----

It's the same here, too, both with ads and builders. 
If you are careful, you might be able to post you ad a day or two apart. Be very careful to use different words to describe it in the subject heading. People here vary the subject line, but keep the rest of the post pretty much the same.  
 
One of the builders is advertising his new homes starting at $140K. I hope to get more than that for mine. So, what are the differences? Bigger trees? More shade? 
Both are hoas, BUT mine is built out and sold, he may not sell all his for a long time, My hoa is established, and having very few amenities, has a much lower association fee. Some of what he's advertising as part of the hoa and fees, we have paid taxes for, less than a mile away...
 
I will look for others, but maybe if you push how YOURS is better, you will look better to buyers, too. 
JCrafor
 
> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 16:22:38 -0700
> From: sterbert at yahoo.com
> To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Ads on Craigslist
> 
> 
> 
> I just wanted to add ...
> 
> that advertising has been complicated for me. In the
> Seattle area, the general inventory is especially
> high. New housing developments were rising on a daily
> basis not too long ago. Now I'm competing with brand
> new unsold homes being given away so the builders can
> cut their losses. 
> 
> On Craigslist, in the Seattle-Tacoma area, since I
> placed my ad late Tuesday night, more than 1000 new
> postings are there. I don't see how anyone can find my
> ad after today. I can't even find it--and I'm
> lookingfor it.
> 
> This is my 2nd time trying to run the sale (despite
> Bill's warning). I got several responses today ...
> but, like last time, it will decline fast as my ad
> gets further buried.
> 
> Steven
> 
> 
> --- Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> 
> > Aamir,
> > 
> > I've sold homes in Rockland County, so I know what
> > you're talking about.
> > 
> > Here's the way I always figure it:
> > 
> > If an ad brings in one additional real buyer who
> > bumps up the final bid 
> > by $500, the ad was worth $1000. (If that real buyer
> > had not bid at the 
> > end of the round robin, the final buyer would have
> > been able to buy for 
> > $1000 less than the final bid.)
> > 
> > In my experience the New York City buyers are
> > generally outbid by the 
> > locals, because they don't know the market as well,
> > and tend to drop out 
> > sooner.
> > 
> > With regard to the Internet versus print ad, I don't
> > know what to say, 
> > or how to figure it. Five-day ads pop out on New
> > York Times pages. The 
> > price is clearly all wrong, and you tend to get
> > responses from people 
> > who are not trolling Internet ads. The people who
> > pick up your 
> > advertising on the Internet often see it both in the
> > New York Times and 
> > craigslist.
> > 
> > Your call. I usually run both.
> > 
> > Bill Effros
> > Author
> > 
> > Steven Herbert wrote:
> > > Lots of my response came from Print I believe. I'm
> > in
> > > Washington State. 
> > >
> > > I was first quoted $480. Then I was told that by
> > > putting my Wed-Fri ad 1st, I was discounted on the
> > > Sat-Sun rate. 
> > >
> > > I paid $140 for Wed--Fri and $70 for Sat & Sun.
> > >
> > > STeven
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Aamir Syed <aamirsy at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > >> Hello all,
> > >>
> > >> I'm currently putting the 5-Day method into
> > practice
> > >> next week. Our house is
> > >> in Rockland County NY (about 35 miles north of
> > NYC).
> > >> I know that I will be
> > >> posting an ad in our local news paper, but I was
> > >> considering perhaps the NY
> > >> times as well. an online+print ad = $380 (very
> > >> expensive). However, an
> > >> online only ad is approx $130. Considering the
> > price
> > >> difference would it be
> > >> worth it to place just an online ad? both online
> > and
> > >> print? or none?
> > >>
> > >> Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
> > >>
> > >> -- 
> > >> -Aamir
> > >> 
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> 
> > >> 5-DayForum mailing list
> > >> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >>
> > >> 
> > >
> >
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> > > 
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > 5-DayForum mailing list
> > > 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> >
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> > >
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > 5-DayForum mailing list
> > 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> >
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
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> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum


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From sean at folkson.com  Mon Mar 16 11:35:44 2009
From: sean at folkson.com (Sean Folkson)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:35:44 +0100
Subject: [5-DayForum]  Pricing?
Message-ID: <200903161536.n2GFawHn022331@intel1.peregrinehw.com>

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From sean at folkson.com  Mon Mar 16 11:57:08 2009
From: sean at folkson.com (Sean Folkson)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:57:08 +0100
Subject: [5-DayForum]  Pricing?
Message-ID: <200903161557.n2GFvdNp004086@intel1.peregrinehw.com>

Bill,

great post.  I'm glad you welcome such exchange as I believe it 
really does help.

Tom, maybe I'm on the leading edge of a tweak for book version 4 or 
5.  Or, maybe not.  No idea just yet.

Bill, just so I'm clear (I don't have the book here with me, it's 
back in NYC), what is the exact pricing strategy you advocate?

Here is what I remember (and what we did):  The idea I remember is 
that we were to take our most realistic idea of what the property is 
worth, multiply that by 50%, and then round down to the next magic 
number.  That's how we got from $380K (what we thought it was worth), 
to $190K ($380K times 50%), and then our advertising price of 
$174,500 (rounding down to next magic number).

My feeling is if we had advertised at $250K - $300K, we might have 
been better off.  Again, still a steal, but at least visible and 
alluring to those with the budget (and pre-approval) we needed to 
sell near our target price (which was kind of justified after we 
listed with the realtor).

tx
sean


From sean at folkson.com  Mon Mar 16 12:09:40 2009
From: sean at folkson.com (Sean Folkson)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:09:40 +0100
Subject: [5-DayForum]  Pricing
Message-ID: <200903161611.n2GGBFPP012401@intel1.peregrinehw.com>

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From sterbert at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 16 12:58:53 2009
From: sterbert at yahoo.com (Steven Herbert)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 09:58:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [5-DayForum] Pricing
In-Reply-To: <200903161611.n2GGBFPP012401@intel1.peregrinehw.com>
Message-ID: <620585.47012.qm@web30206.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


I just had my 5-day sale this weekend. Nobody put down
a bid!!

My take is that they didn't believe I would sell the
house for less and they knew it was worth more ... a
lot lot more than the "teaser price." 

And on arrival, they're not prepared for the
full-figured amount. The papers I handed to them say
they need to sign the agreement on Monday! 

The price shock and the Monday aspect was too much. 
If I had to do this again ... I would price
differently. Banks aren't lending their money out.
People are afraid to spend. Investors that called me
didn't want to waste their time ... they don't want to
pay for what a house is worth--they want a Steal!

Steven

--- Sean Folkson <sean at folkson.com> wrote:


---------------------------------
Bill, 

just saw your post where you say:

"
If you buy Sean's story, why is he using the
5-DayMethod again? "The story is believable and
verifiable, you can search thereal estate records to
see the final sale of the property, and I stillhave
names and numbers (and E-mail addresses) from bidders
whoattended.  I guess you could say I'm not using the
5-Day Methodagain.  I'm just using a substantial part
of the ideas in thebook.  Since pricing is such an
important part, if I'm followingeverything but the
pricing (and I am), I'll let others decide if
it'saccurate to say I'm using the method again.However
anybody views it, I think that, in my particular
circumstance, Iwill give myself the best chance of
selling this house for the highest $amount using ALL
of Bill's advice with the single exception of how
Iadvertise the price, and the fact that I will not
take any bids if noneof them meet my advertised
price.Whether anybody feels I'm using the method or
not for this next sale issemantics.  I would say I am,
but with different pricing....Billmight feel I'm not
because pricing is so critical, that once I do my
ownthing there, it's no longer his method.  I totally
understand thatpoint of view.I loved the process, just
didn't attract people willing to bid what wewanted. 
Bill may be right.  Maybe people knew we had a
numberin mind we just wouldn't sell at.  But, I did
believe we'd sell tothe high bidder, because I
believed our high bidder would get into themid $300K
range.  We had every intention of selling right on
thespot.I was floored when the bidding stopped cold at
$326,500.  But, youcan't get blood from a stone.  The
people that were bidding couldn'tgo higher.Ultimately,
we listed with a realtor who came to our open house,
and whoheard about it from his client (who was the 2nd
highest bidder).  Welisted at $389K, and as the market
continued to drop through Sept, wedropped our listing
price to the $358K range, and had multiple
offers.Again, we just didn't have the right budgets
involved in the biddingprocess.  >
_______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> 



      

From nkhouri at cfl.rr.com  Mon Mar 16 13:03:48 2009
From: nkhouri at cfl.rr.com (Naji)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 13:03:48 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Pricing
In-Reply-To: <620585.47012.qm@web30206.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <200903161611.n2GGBFPP012401@intel1.peregrinehw.com>
	<620585.47012.qm@web30206.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5D34F67E38744964BC99793A1AC5EF1E@NSKHome>

Where are you located?

-----Original Message-----
From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of Steven Herbert
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 12:59 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Pricing


I just had my 5-day sale this weekend. Nobody put down
a bid!!

My take is that they didn't believe I would sell the
house for less and they knew it was worth more ... a
lot lot more than the "teaser price." 

And on arrival, they're not prepared for the
full-figured amount. The papers I handed to them say
they need to sign the agreement on Monday! 

The price shock and the Monday aspect was too much. 
If I had to do this again ... I would price
differently. Banks aren't lending their money out.
People are afraid to spend. Investors that called me
didn't want to waste their time ... they don't want to
pay for what a house is worth--they want a Steal!

Steven

--- Sean Folkson <sean at folkson.com> wrote:


---------------------------------
Bill, 

just saw your post where you say:

"
If you buy Sean's story, why is he using the
5-DayMethod again? "The story is believable and
verifiable, you can search thereal estate records to
see the final sale of the property, and I stillhave
names and numbers (and E-mail addresses) from bidders
whoattended.  I guess you could say I'm not using the
5-Day Methodagain.  I'm just using a substantial part
of the ideas in thebook.  Since pricing is such an
important part, if I'm followingeverything but the
pricing (and I am), I'll let others decide if
it'saccurate to say I'm using the method again.However
anybody views it, I think that, in my particular
circumstance, Iwill give myself the best chance of
selling this house for the highest $amount using ALL
of Bill's advice with the single exception of how
Iadvertise the price, and the fact that I will not
take any bids if noneof them meet my advertised
price.Whether anybody feels I'm using the method or
not for this next sale issemantics.  I would say I am,
but with different pricing....Billmight feel I'm not
because pricing is so critical, that once I do my
ownthing there, it's no longer his method.  I totally
understand thatpoint of view.I loved the process, just
didn't attract people willing to bid what wewanted. 
Bill may be right.  Maybe people knew we had a
numberin mind we just wouldn't sell at.  But, I did
believe we'd sell tothe high bidder, because I
believed our high bidder would get into themid $300K
range.  We had every intention of selling right on
thespot.I was floored when the bidding stopped cold at
$326,500.  But, youcan't get blood from a stone.  The
people that were bidding couldn'tgo higher.Ultimately,
we listed with a realtor who came to our open house,
and whoheard about it from his client (who was the 2nd
highest bidder).  Welisted at $389K, and as the market
continued to drop through Sept, wedropped our listing
price to the $358K range, and had multiple
offers.Again, we just didn't have the right budgets
involved in the biddingprocess.  >
_______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> 



      
_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum



From joannkelty8 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 16 13:25:22 2009
From: joannkelty8 at gmail.com (Jo Ann Kelty)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 13:25:22 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
In-Reply-To: <49BBC78A.1090606@effros.com>
References: <49BBC78A.1090606@effros.com>
Message-ID: <ba6acdee0903161025x7f13fa39je6cdfd4125ec5dc1@mail.gmail.com>

The one option that you did not mention was a Loan Modification.  This can
reduce your interest rate thereby reducing your monthly payment so that you
can afford to stay in your home.  In some cases but not all the principal
amount can also be reducuded.. If you would like more information regarding
if you can qualify please contact me.

Jo Ann Kelty
joannkelty8 at gmail.com

407-610-0736
407-756-6371  cell

On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:

> Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
>
>
> March 14, 2009
> Your Money
> By RON LIEBER
> (
> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/l/ron_lieber/index.html?inline=nyt-per
> )
>
> If you?re among the millions of people who will not qualify for the
> Obama administration?s program to help troubled homeowners, you?re
> probably wondering what you?re supposed to do now.
>
> Perhaps you no longer have enough income to pay your loans
> (
> http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
> ).
> Or you can afford the payments but don?t qualify for refinancing under
> the new plan because the value of your home is too far below the balance
> of the loan. If you?re far enough underwater, you?re probably
> questioning the wisdom of writing a monthly check on a place that may
> take 10 or 15 years to get back to the value it had two or three years
> ago. It isn?t easy to come up with the answer, and if you have moral
> misgivings about not making good on your mortgage
> (
> http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/mortgages/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
> ),
> a religious officiant may offer as much useful guidance as a financial
> planner
> (
> http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/planning/financial-planners/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
> ).
>
> In an economic environment like this one, however, the consequences of
> giving up on your mortgage may not be as painful as they were a few
> years ago. Yes, it?s almost always preferable to negotiate a better deal
> on your existing mortgage than to walk away. But if you can?t work
> things out with your lender, you probably won?t be sued. You shouldn?t
> receive a major tax bill either. And the damage to your credit will not
> be permanent or insurmountable.
>
> Let?s look at these last three in order.
>
> YOUR LENDER First off, let?s define what we mean by ?giving up? on your
> current mortgage. It may mean trying for a short sale
> (
> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/s/short_selling/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
> ),
> where the lender allows you to sell your home for less than the mortgage
> amount. You may also hand over the deed to the home in exchange for the
> lender agreeing not to start foreclosure proceedings (a ?deed in lieu?
> in industry terms). Then, there?s foreclosure itself, and the
> possibility that bankruptcy judges may soon have the power to adjust the
> terms of primary mortgages.
>
> That said, just because you?re ineligible under the Obama plan doesn?t
> mean that your lender or servicer won?t ultimately adjust your mortgage
> anyhow. Collectively, there are enough people in trouble or under water
> on their loans that they have plenty of leverage if they?re willing to
> play chicken with their lender and threaten to stop paying.
>
> The problem is, the lender can play chicken, too, by threatening to come
> after you for the balance of any money you owe ? whether it?s the
> difference between what you sell the property for yourself and the
> remaining mortgage, or the loan amount left over after the lender sells
> your property in foreclosure.
>
> The lender may not follow through, though. ?What our membership is
> telling us is that it can be cost-prohibitive to chase down a borrower
> who is already in financial distress,? said John Mechem, a spokesman for
> the Mortgage Bankers Association. ?You can?t squeeze blood from a
> stone.? They may, however, still come after people with high incomes who
> walk away from jumbo loans that are way under water or loans on
> investment
> (
> http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/investments/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
> )
> properties.
>
> Some states have laws that may specifically prohibit lenders from
> pursuing borrowers for the balance of many mortgage loans after
> foreclosure, though the particulars vary. Arizona and California are
> among these states, according to Steven Bender, a professor at the
> University of Oregon
> (
> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/u/university_of_oregon/index.html?inline=nyt-org
> )
> School of Law. It?s best to talk to a lawyer to determine your state?s
> rules.
>
> In fact, if you want to be sure your lender (or a collection agency that
> it may sell your loan to) won?t chase you down, it?s a good idea to have
> a lawyer involved with any short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure
> itself. ?You must get the bank to agree in writing that any deficiency
> is waived,? said Chip Parker, a lawyer specializing in foreclosure with
> Parker & DuFresne in Jacksonville, Fla.
>
> The biggest challenge here may simply be finding someone at the bank to
> help. Having a second mortgage will also complicate matters.
>
> YOUR TAXES You also need to consider the taxman. Often, forgiven debts
> are taxable as income. Recent legislative changes, however, eliminate
> the federal tax burden through 2012 on most primary residence debt that
> a lender has reduced through loan restructuring or forgiven during
> foreclosure.
>
> Mark Luscombe, principal analyst for CCH, a tax information service,
> said that people who sell their home through a short sale or give up the
> deed in lieu of foreclosure can also qualify for tax relief if they use
> a special tax form, 1099-C, that reflects the amount of debt that the
> lender has forgiven.
>
> People who live in states with their own income taxes may avoid a big
> bill as well. Some states, like Arizona and California, have introduced
> or passed legislation that echoes the federal laws, according to the
> National Conference of State Legislatures. Many others tend to mimic
> most or all federal income tax laws as a general rule, according to CCH.
> Check with an accountant in your state to be sure.
>
> YOUR CREDIT A short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure itself will almost
> certainly damage your credit report and score, and the black mark will
> last for up to seven years. But the amount of damage it does will depend
> on how much other credit trouble you?ve gotten yourself into with other
> lenders.
>
> If you?re giving up the home you own, you?ll probably need to rent soon
> afterward. Will landlords turn you away once they check your credit and
> discover your troubled mortgage? ?If it?s the only thing marring their
> credit, it?s probably not a big issue,? said Clay Powell, the director
> of the Rental Property Owners Association of Michigan, who added that
> good tenants could be scarce in economic environments like this one.
>
> In fact, Todd J. Zywicki, a law professor at George Mason University,
> predicted that FICO may have to adjust its credit scores
> (
> http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-scores/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
> )
> to lessen the impact of a foreclosure or similar incident. ?It just
> seems obvious that a foreclosure in 2008 or 2009 doesn?t have as much
> information value as a foreclosure five years ago,? he said. ?To the
> extent that foreclosure doesn?t predict future behavior as much as it
> did in the past, you?d expect that the FICO algorithm would change to
> adjust for that.?
>
> Craig Watts, a spokesman for FICO, said that was an interesting idea.
> ?We try not to get involved too much in psychobabble around what is and
> isn?t predictive,? he said. ?If the numbers show that foreclosure is
> less predictive, then we?ll take it into account in future
> redevelopments of the formula.? That would take a minimum of two to
> three years, though.
>
> Some lenders aren?t waiting that long to initiate their own foreclosure
> destigmatization programs. The Golden 1, one of the nation?s largest
> credit unions, now has a mortgage repair loan for people who have lost a
> home to foreclosure but want to buy a new one.
>
> It?s hard to imagine that there won?t be a parade of insurance
> (
> http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/insurance/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
> )
> companies, credit card
> (
> http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-and-debit-cards/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
> )
> issuers and mortgage lenders in Golden 1?s wake, even though Fannie Mae
> (
> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/fannie_mae/index.html?inline=nyt-org
> )
> and Freddie Mac
> (
> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/freddie_mac/index.html?inline=nyt-org
> )
> may be unwilling to guarantee the mortgages of such borrowers for
> several years. In fact, Aaron Bresko, the vice president of lending for
> BECU, another large credit union based in Washington State, is putting
> together a panel called ?How to Lend to the Newly Credit Impaired? for a
> conference later this year.
>
> ?Good people have bad things happen to them, so how do you find those
> people and reach out to them?? he said. ?As the year progresses, it?s
> going to be an emerging market.?
>
> How are you handling your mortgage problems?
> Write to rlieber at nytimes.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
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From tomwilson64 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 16 13:19:13 2009
From: tomwilson64 at yahoo.com (Tom Wilson)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 12:19:13 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] Pricing
In-Reply-To: <200903161611.n2GGBFPP012401@intel1.peregrinehw.com>
References: <200903161611.n2GGBFPP012401@intel1.peregrinehw.com>
Message-ID: <489d01c9a65b$54777740$fd6665c0$@com>

I would say you are not using the 5-Day Sale Method, but attempting to
improve on the real deal.  More than just the stipulations in the method,
there is a relaxed openness that has to give everyone who walks in the door
confidence and must capture their trust to spend the time on a bid.  There
is no way to create that atmosphere without being completely genuine and
enjoying the process.  What you're introducing with a higher price and
moreso with telling everyone that you will take no less than x price are
things which will reduce your bidders and I know you desire a reduction of
those who couldn't qualify, but this begins to take away that sense of
openness that I believe Bill's process intends to create.  When they see
some exceptions, such as no lower than, you might get a different response
to the ad and a different response from those who attend inspection.  You
will never know how your change may make your sale more difficult or less
profitable because it will be the absence of possibly just one or two people
who may have made the difference.

 

If this is the way you want to run it, more power to you, but understand in
my opinion it goes against some of the foundational tenets of the 5-Day
Method.   If it works enough that you feel good after its over then that's
great, but in the long run, I prefer 5-Day Method to the attempts others
make to try to improve on it and I wouldn't call yours by the same name.

 

Best of Luck,

 

Tom in Texas

 

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+tomwilson64=yahoo.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.co
m
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+tomwilson64=yahoo.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein
5days.com] On Behalf Of Sean Folkson
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 11:10 AM
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Subject: [5-DayForum] Pricing

 

Bill, 

just saw your post where you say:

"

If you buy Sean's story, why is he using the 5-Day
Method again? "
 
The story is believable and verifiable, you can search the
real estate records to see the final sale of the property, and I still
have names and numbers (and E-mail addresses) from bidders who
attended.  I guess you could say I'm not using the 5-Day Method
again.  I'm just using a substantial part of the ideas in the
book.  Since pricing is such an important part, if I'm following
everything but the pricing (and I am), I'll let others decide if it's
accurate to say I'm using the method again.
 
However anybody views it, I think that, in my particular circumstance, I
will give myself the best chance of selling this house for the highest $
amount using ALL of Bill's advice with the single exception of how I
advertise the price, and the fact that I will not take any bids if none
of them meet my advertised price.
 
Whether anybody feels I'm using the method or not for this next sale is
semantics.  I would say I am, but with different pricing....Bill
might feel I'm not because pricing is so critical, that once I do my own
thing there, it's no longer his method.  I totally understand that
point of view.
 
I loved the process, just didn't attract people willing to bid what we
wanted.  Bill may be right.  Maybe people knew we had a number
in mind we just wouldn't sell at.  But, I did believe we'd sell to
the high bidder, because I believed our high bidder would get into the
mid $300K range.  We had every intention of selling right on the
spot.
 
I was floored when the bidding stopped cold at $326,500.  But, you
can't get blood from a stone.  The people that were bidding couldn't
go higher.
 
Ultimately, we listed with a realtor who came to our open house, and who
heard about it from his client (who was the 2nd highest bidder).  We
listed at $389K, and as the market continued to drop through Sept, we
dropped our listing price to the $358K range, and had multiple offers.
 
Again, we just didn't have the right budgets involved in the bidding
process.  
 
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From investments at foreclosurescanada.com  Mon Mar 16 13:41:45 2009
From: investments at foreclosurescanada.com (Wade Fenner)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 11:41:45 -0600
Subject: [5-DayForum] My 5 Day Sale
Message-ID: <9CC2EB348A7C47E5B09F9D7891DF2799@owner92923b38f>

Well I just held my 5 Day Sale and here is how it went:


Location: Edmonton AB Canada pop. incl area over 1,000,000

Property: 2 storey three bedroom townhouse, one bath, developed basement, fully renovated 18 months ago with everything done & new appliances. It looks Great....and repainted last fall when the tenant moved out.

Price: Listed at $94,500 with an expected net of at lease $170-180. (My guess is the property could sell for around 180-185 with a realtor so my expectation was pretty low in my opinion but I was willing to accept a net after commissions etc)

Advertising: 

  a.. I placed a 2 column wide by 2.25 " high display ad in the real estate section as per the book example. The ad was to run wed, thur, fri, sat, sun as instructed. The newspaper co. messed up and did not get my ad in by wed so I doubled up the ad for thur & fri by placing the ad in the very front section of the paper. Total cost $1,900.
  b.. Kijiji, Craigs list and in my monthly re group website

Signs: I had 20 signs made up 24' wide by 18" high that read (House Auction, To Be Sold Sunday Night, Higgest Bidder, Inspection: Sat & Sunday, Ph & email address) these were made up as per exaples on the site (bright yellow, red, etc). These were set up on street poles on Wed afternoon. Plus 2 24 x 60 signs attached to my truck on the main road leading to my unit. Cost about $4-500

Calls: By Friday morning I had 20+ calls (remember my ad only cale out Thurs. By Sat noon I had over 30 calls, by sat night I had 45 calls, by sun noon around 50 calls.

Open House: Sat 7-8 different parties showed up with 2 bids on the bid sheet. Sun about 20 parties & a total of 12 bids.


Bidding: 4 peopled bailed immediately. 3-4 bailed in the first 3-4 rounds, finally few bailed in the next few rounds with the last person sitting at $163k. There was only one serious bidder.

Conclusion: I need more than one serious bidder to get the price up. Was I impressed? No, not by the results but the process has got my attention and I will do it again but probably with a modification or two I'm just not sure what yet. I spent good money on ads & signs $2,500. and had a very low expectation of price......

Cheers,

Wade Fenner

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From nkhouri at cfl.rr.com  Mon Mar 16 13:47:29 2009
From: nkhouri at cfl.rr.com (Naji)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 13:47:29 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
In-Reply-To: <ba6acdee0903161025x7f13fa39je6cdfd4125ec5dc1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49BBC78A.1090606@effros.com>
	<ba6acdee0903161025x7f13fa39je6cdfd4125ec5dc1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CBF8BF9D8EF14897AAE15BD8A47D397F@NSKHome>

Loan modifications without an actual principal reduction to current market
valuation only benefits the banks, period! You're better off walking away or
doing a short sale than prolonging the inevitable.

 

BTW, Loan Modification programs are being pushed (mostly) by the same banks
and mortgage brokers that were giving away billions of dollars to
unqualified buyers during the peak. It's amazing that the same crooks that
were telling a person making 40K a year they can afford a 500K home with 0
down are the same ones getting into the loan modification business.

 

-Naji

 

 

---------- From my previous posting ----------

 

Anyone that purchased a home or refinanced (and tapped their equity) in the
last 5 years or so in many parts of the country (if not all of the country)
is upside down on their mortgage, i.e house worth less than what's owed on
it, or are falling behind on payments:

 

So what are the options if you're in that situation:

 

1.	Reinstatement - Determine the amount owed necessary to bring loan
current. 

*	This just prolongs the inevitable. If the house is worth much less,
especially in hard hit areas, expect to stay put for many many years before
you break even. So, you may find yourself in the same situation a few month
or years from now 

2.	Forbearance - Set up a payment plan to bring the loan current. 

*	Another option that's not really going to work. If someone cannot
pay now, how will he be able to become current with more payments. 

3.	Modification - Adjust the loan terms (interest rate, payment and
length). 

*	Loan modification only benefits the banks at this point. They just
tack it on to the back end of the mortgage. 
*	This will only work if banks actually reduce the principal to match
current value. Unfortunately, less than 1% of loan modifications result in
principal reductions. 

4.	Deed-in-lieu - Give the property back to the lender. 

*	Works if the lender agrees to it and there aren't 2nd, 3rd, etc
liens 

5.	Walk Away - Leave the property in the most beneficial way possible. 

*	Stay as long as you can in the home - You can stay at least 8 months
before it goes to the bank and in states like Florida, expect to stay almost
2 years. 
*	Don't pay the mortgage, but instead save it all so you can rebuild
your life 
*	When it's judgment time, find a place to rent and plan on renting
for a while 
*	You could also offload your property to someone as well 

6.	Short Sale - List the property for less than the amount owed. 

*	You can negotiate a short sale with your bank. You can do it
yourself or hire someone to do it on you behalf. It's really not that
difficult, all it takes is communicating with your lender 
*	Many banks are getting easier to work with while others are still in
dreamville 
*	Expect this to take months due to the bank backlogs. Also, some
banks want to see the property on the market for at least 90 days before
agreeing to anything. Then they do their own BPO (which is still out of
whack) and wait like everyone else thinking they can get all their money
back. 

7.	Refinance - Obtain a new loan to replace the current loan(s). 

*	Will not work unless you're going to bring a big chunk of change to
the table. 

8.	Excess Proceeds- Collecting excess money from the auction/sale of
the property. 

*	Wait until the property goes to the auction block and if there's any
money left after the 1st Lien holder is paid, you may get something back.
Doubtful in many cases since all the homes going back are worth less than
the mortgage 

9.	Postponements - Delay the auction/sale date of the property. 

*	Delay the public auction of the property while you try to figure
something out 
*	This will only buy you time and you'll still have to face the music
later 

10.	Stay In Your Home - Continue living in your current home. 

*	If you can afford the payments and are willing to stick it out for
10 years or more, then just stay put 

 

-Naji

 

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of Jo Ann Kelty
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 1:25 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan

 

The one option that you did not mention was a Loan Modification.  This can
reduce your interest rate thereby reducing your monthly payment so that you
can afford to stay in your home.  In some cases but not all the principal
amount can also be reducuded.. If you would like more information regarding
if you can qualify please contact me.  

 

Jo Ann Kelty 

joannkelty8 at gmail.com

 

407-610-0736  

407-756-6371  cell

On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:

Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan


March 14, 2009
Your Money
By RON LIEBER
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/l/ron_lieber/ind
ex.html?inline=nyt-per)

If you're among the millions of people who will not qualify for the
Obama administration's program to help troubled homeowners, you're
probably wondering what you're supposed to do now.

Perhaps you no longer have enough income to pay your loans
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
).
Or you can afford the payments but don't qualify for refinancing under
the new plan because the value of your home is too far below the balance
of the loan. If you're far enough underwater, you're probably
questioning the wisdom of writing a monthly check on a place that may
take 10 or 15 years to get back to the value it had two or three years
ago. It isn't easy to come up with the answer, and if you have moral
misgivings about not making good on your mortgage
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/mortgages/index.html?inline=nyt-
classifier),
a religious officiant may offer as much useful guidance as a financial
planner
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/planning/financial-planners/index.html
?inline=nyt-classifier).

In an economic environment like this one, however, the consequences of
giving up on your mortgage may not be as painful as they were a few
years ago. Yes, it's almost always preferable to negotiate a better deal
on your existing mortgage than to walk away. But if you can't work
things out with your lender, you probably won't be sued. You shouldn't
receive a major tax bill either. And the damage to your credit will not
be permanent or insurmountable.

Let's look at these last three in order.

YOUR LENDER First off, let's define what we mean by "giving up" on your
current mortgage. It may mean trying for a short sale
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/s/short_sellin
g/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier),
where the lender allows you to sell your home for less than the mortgage
amount. You may also hand over the deed to the home in exchange for the
lender agreeing not to start foreclosure proceedings (a "deed in lieu"
in industry terms). Then, there's foreclosure itself, and the
possibility that bankruptcy judges may soon have the power to adjust the
terms of primary mortgages.

That said, just because you're ineligible under the Obama plan doesn't
mean that your lender or servicer won't ultimately adjust your mortgage
anyhow. Collectively, there are enough people in trouble or under water
on their loans that they have plenty of leverage if they're willing to
play chicken with their lender and threaten to stop paying.

The problem is, the lender can play chicken, too, by threatening to come
after you for the balance of any money you owe - whether it's the
difference between what you sell the property for yourself and the
remaining mortgage, or the loan amount left over after the lender sells
your property in foreclosure.

The lender may not follow through, though. "What our membership is
telling us is that it can be cost-prohibitive to chase down a borrower
who is already in financial distress," said John Mechem, a spokesman for
the Mortgage Bankers Association. "You can't squeeze blood from a
stone." They may, however, still come after people with high incomes who
walk away from jumbo loans that are way under water or loans on
investment
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/investments/index.html?inline=nyt-clas
sifier)
properties.

Some states have laws that may specifically prohibit lenders from
pursuing borrowers for the balance of many mortgage loans after
foreclosure, though the particulars vary. Arizona and California are
among these states, according to Steven Bender, a professor at the
University of Oregon
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/u/univers
ity_of_oregon/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
School of Law. It's best to talk to a lawyer to determine your state's
rules.

In fact, if you want to be sure your lender (or a collection agency that
it may sell your loan to) won't chase you down, it's a good idea to have
a lawyer involved with any short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure
itself. "You must get the bank to agree in writing that any deficiency
is waived," said Chip Parker, a lawyer specializing in foreclosure with
Parker & DuFresne in Jacksonville, Fla.

The biggest challenge here may simply be finding someone at the bank to
help. Having a second mortgage will also complicate matters.

YOUR TAXES You also need to consider the taxman. Often, forgiven debts
are taxable as income. Recent legislative changes, however, eliminate
the federal tax burden through 2012 on most primary residence debt that
a lender has reduced through loan restructuring or forgiven during
foreclosure.

Mark Luscombe, principal analyst for CCH, a tax information service,
said that people who sell their home through a short sale or give up the
deed in lieu of foreclosure can also qualify for tax relief if they use
a special tax form, 1099-C, that reflects the amount of debt that the
lender has forgiven.

People who live in states with their own income taxes may avoid a big
bill as well. Some states, like Arizona and California, have introduced
or passed legislation that echoes the federal laws, according to the
National Conference of State Legislatures. Many others tend to mimic
most or all federal income tax laws as a general rule, according to CCH.
Check with an accountant in your state to be sure.

YOUR CREDIT A short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure itself will almost
certainly damage your credit report and score, and the black mark will
last for up to seven years. But the amount of damage it does will depend
on how much other credit trouble you've gotten yourself into with other
lenders.

If you're giving up the home you own, you'll probably need to rent soon
afterward. Will landlords turn you away once they check your credit and
discover your troubled mortgage? "If it's the only thing marring their
credit, it's probably not a big issue," said Clay Powell, the director
of the Rental Property Owners Association of Michigan, who added that
good tenants could be scarce in economic environments like this one.

In fact, Todd J. Zywicki, a law professor at George Mason University,
predicted that FICO may have to adjust its credit scores
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-scores/index.html?inline
=nyt-classifier)
to lessen the impact of a foreclosure or similar incident. "It just
seems obvious that a foreclosure in 2008 or 2009 doesn't have as much
information value as a foreclosure five years ago," he said. "To the
extent that foreclosure doesn't predict future behavior as much as it
did in the past, you'd expect that the FICO algorithm would change to
adjust for that."

Craig Watts, a spokesman for FICO, said that was an interesting idea.
"We try not to get involved too much in psychobabble around what is and
isn't predictive," he said. "If the numbers show that foreclosure is
less predictive, then we'll take it into account in future
redevelopments of the formula." That would take a minimum of two to
three years, though.

Some lenders aren't waiting that long to initiate their own foreclosure
destigmatization programs. The Golden 1, one of the nation's largest
credit unions, now has a mortgage repair loan for people who have lost a
home to foreclosure but want to buy a new one.

It's hard to imagine that there won't be a parade of insurance
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/insurance/index.html?inline=nyt-classi
fier)
companies, credit card
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-and-debit-cards/index.ht
ml?inline=nyt-classifier)
issuers and mortgage lenders in Golden 1's wake, even though Fannie Mae
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/fannie_mae/index.html
?inline=nyt-org)
and Freddie Mac
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/freddie_mac/index.htm
l?inline=nyt-org)
may be unwilling to guarantee the mortgages of such borrowers for
several years. In fact, Aaron Bresko, the vice president of lending for
BECU, another large credit union based in Washington State, is putting
together a panel called "How to Lend to the Newly Credit Impaired" for a
conference later this year.

"Good people have bad things happen to them, so how do you find those
people and reach out to them?" he said. "As the year progresses, it's
going to be an emerging market."

How are you handling your mortgage problems?
Write to rlieber at nytimes.com.

_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

 

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From real.estate.professor at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 16 14:02:21 2009
From: real.estate.professor at hotmail.com (Kyle Cascioli)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 13:02:21 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] Realtor Attendance
In-Reply-To: <DA7DBA6CB05A4156861A162684085C0A@NSKHome>
References: <56bd5f520903142047m6f304709nf414c487afc8d05@mail.gmail.com>
	<DA7DBA6CB05A4156861A162684085C0A@NSKHome>
Message-ID: <BLU122-W8C62CF042140727259D62B49B0@phx.gbl>


Agreed ... we offer 2% to the bidders agent if they have pre-registered their client on our site.

 

This is the same percentage that the national auction firms pay to the outside.

 

Kyle Cascioli

www.AuctionByAgent.com 
 


From: nkhouri at cfl.rr.com
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 10:50:12 -0400
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Realtor Attendance









Realtors don?t find buyers? Buyers find the Realtors and use their service to buy. You can always offer a commission for a Realtor that brings you a buyer and add a buyer?s premium to the mix.
 
-Naji
 




From: 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Kyle Vandegriff
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 11:48 PM
To: 5-dayforum at howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Subject: [5-DayForum] Realtor Attendance
 
Hello all.  I?m wondering if it is advisable to try to entice realtors to attend my 5-day with clients looking to buy the type of house I?m offering.  I know I?m not supposed to protect the broker, but I feel this might help to get the real buyers to the house. The only reason I?m considering this action is because I?ve painted myself into a corner.  I really really need to sell my house the weekend I?m offering it because of a forced move (military).  I live in a fairly rural and economically depressed town in south Texas and am concerned about the lack of volume of home sales in the area over the past year.
 
In my situation I feel it might be a good tradeoff to potentially have to pay a small commission to make the sale happen vs. certainly having to pay a large one if the real buyers don?t turn out.  Or is this just normal pre-sale jitters and I should stick to the book?
 
What sort of minimum commission or flat fee would be sufficient to entice them to attend (about a $100,000 house)? 
 
Thanks!
 
-Kyle
 
_________________________________________________________________
Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail?. 
http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme
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From bill at effros.com  Mon Mar 16 14:02:10 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 14:02:10 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Pricing?
In-Reply-To: <200903161557.n2GFvdNp004086@intel1.peregrinehw.com>
References: <200903161557.n2GFvdNp004086@intel1.peregrinehw.com>
Message-ID: <49BE9422.2060308@effros.com>

Sean,

I didn't know where your original post was, either, which was why I 
didn't respond directly to you.

Here's the deal:

You thought your home was worth at least $380,000, but now (as a direct 
result of your 5-Day Sale) you know it wasn't worth that much at the 
time you offered it, and that had you taken the high bid you would have 
put approximately the same amount in your pocket as you eventually got.

A real estate broker who attended your 5-Day Sale, earned $15,000 to 
$20,000 by advising his client to not bid more than $326,000 for your 
home, and then came back to you and told you it was worth $389,000.

You now know the broker knew you would not get $389,000, and should have 
told your second bidder to advance the bidding, so, of course, you are 
not inclined to offer another home through that broker -- instead, you 
plan to offer your second home at a level that will not attract 25 
responses by Friday night, and to proceed with a smaller number of 
bidders in such a way that you will not know the true current value of 
your home, and you will then move into it.

Why not save yourself the trouble, and just move into the second house?

Many people have tried the "wrong buyers attended--increase the starting 
price" variation.  They don't get 25 responses by Friday night, and we 
never hear from them again.

This approach has a long history of failure, and you do new sellers a 
disservice by advocating it before you have tried it.

The 5-Day Method worked for you, even though you were not prepared to 
accept the current market value.  If the high price had been $355,000 
you wouldn't have taken that either, because you were convinced the 
"real" price should have been greater than $380,000.  At some point you 
started weaseling about whether you were REALLY going to sell at the 
high price -- and as soon as you started to do that, the real buyers 
knew it was time to walk away from the bidding.

Now you propose to do the same thing again. 

Don't!

Either run a 5-Day Sale properly and then take the high bid; or move 
into the house and enjoy it because you are not prepared to accept the 
current market value.

Bill Effros
Author











Sean Folkson wrote:
> Bill,
>
> great post.  I'm glad you welcome such exchange as I believe it 
> really does help.
>
> Tom, maybe I'm on the leading edge of a tweak for book version 4 or 
> 5.  Or, maybe not.  No idea just yet.
>
> Bill, just so I'm clear (I don't have the book here with me, it's 
> back in NYC), what is the exact pricing strategy you advocate?
>
> Here is what I remember (and what we did):  The idea I remember is 
> that we were to take our most realistic idea of what the property is 
> worth, multiply that by 50%, and then round down to the next magic 
> number.  That's how we got from $380K (what we thought it was worth), 
> to $190K ($380K times 50%), and then our advertising price of 
> $174,500 (rounding down to next magic number).
>
> My feeling is if we had advertised at $250K - $300K, we might have 
> been better off.  Again, still a steal, but at least visible and 
> alluring to those with the budget (and pre-approval) we needed to 
> sell near our target price (which was kind of justified after we 
> listed with the realtor).
>
> tx
> sean
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>   

From bill at effros.com  Mon Mar 16 14:07:14 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 14:07:14 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
In-Reply-To: <ba6acdee0903161025x7f13fa39je6cdfd4125ec5dc1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49BBC78A.1090606@effros.com>
	<ba6acdee0903161025x7f13fa39je6cdfd4125ec5dc1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49BE9552.3020308@effros.com>

Jo Ann,

My current thinking (and I am open on this) is that for many homeowners 
reducing the monthly payments is just a formula for throwing good money 
after bad.  This is not the case everywhere, but in many places I 
believe they will walk away sooner or later, and sooner is better for 
everyone.

Bill Effros
Author



Jo Ann Kelty wrote:
> The one option that you did not mention was a Loan Modification.  This 
> can reduce your interest rate thereby reducing your monthly payment so 
> that you can afford to stay in your home.  In some cases but not all 
> the principal amount can also be reducuded.. If you would like more 
> information regarding if you can qualify please contact me. 
>  
> Jo Ann Kelty
> joannkelty8 at gmail.com <mailto:joannkelty8 at gmail.com>
>  
> 407-610-0736 
> 407-756-6371  cell
>
> On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com 
> <mailto:bill at effros.com>> wrote:
>
>     Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
>
>
>     March 14, 2009
>     Your Money
>     By RON LIEBER
>     (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/l/ron_lieber/index.html?inline=nyt-per)
>
>     If you?re among the millions of people who will not qualify for the
>     Obama administration?s program to help troubled homeowners, you?re
>     probably wondering what you?re supposed to do now.
>
>     Perhaps you no longer have enough income to pay your loans
>     (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier).
>     Or you can afford the payments but don?t qualify for refinancing under
>     the new plan because the value of your home is too far below the
>     balance
>     of the loan. If you?re far enough underwater, you?re probably
>     questioning the wisdom of writing a monthly check on a place that may
>     take 10 or 15 years to get back to the value it had two or three years
>     ago. It isn?t easy to come up with the answer, and if you have moral
>     misgivings about not making good on your mortgage
>     (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/mortgages/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier),
>     a religious officiant may offer as much useful guidance as a financial
>     planner
>     (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/planning/financial-planners/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier).
>
>     In an economic environment like this one, however, the consequences of
>     giving up on your mortgage may not be as painful as they were a few
>     years ago. Yes, it?s almost always preferable to negotiate a
>     better deal
>     on your existing mortgage than to walk away. But if you can?t work
>     things out with your lender, you probably won?t be sued. You shouldn?t
>     receive a major tax bill either. And the damage to your credit
>     will not
>     be permanent or insurmountable.
>
>     Let?s look at these last three in order.
>
>     YOUR LENDER First off, let?s define what we mean by ?giving up? on
>     your
>     current mortgage. It may mean trying for a short sale
>     (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/s/short_selling/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier),
>     where the lender allows you to sell your home for less than the
>     mortgage
>     amount. You may also hand over the deed to the home in exchange
>     for the
>     lender agreeing not to start foreclosure proceedings (a ?deed in lieu?
>     in industry terms). Then, there?s foreclosure itself, and the
>     possibility that bankruptcy judges may soon have the power to
>     adjust the
>     terms of primary mortgages.
>
>     That said, just because you?re ineligible under the Obama plan doesn?t
>     mean that your lender or servicer won?t ultimately adjust your
>     mortgage
>     anyhow. Collectively, there are enough people in trouble or under
>     water
>     on their loans that they have plenty of leverage if they?re willing to
>     play chicken with their lender and threaten to stop paying.
>
>     The problem is, the lender can play chicken, too, by threatening
>     to come
>     after you for the balance of any money you owe ? whether it?s the
>     difference between what you sell the property for yourself and the
>     remaining mortgage, or the loan amount left over after the lender
>     sells
>     your property in foreclosure.
>
>     The lender may not follow through, though. ?What our membership is
>     telling us is that it can be cost-prohibitive to chase down a borrower
>     who is already in financial distress,? said John Mechem, a
>     spokesman for
>     the Mortgage Bankers Association. ?You can?t squeeze blood from a
>     stone.? They may, however, still come after people with high
>     incomes who
>     walk away from jumbo loans that are way under water or loans on
>     investment
>     (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/investments/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
>     properties.
>
>     Some states have laws that may specifically prohibit lenders from
>     pursuing borrowers for the balance of many mortgage loans after
>     foreclosure, though the particulars vary. Arizona and California are
>     among these states, according to Steven Bender, a professor at the
>     University of Oregon
>     (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/u/university_of_oregon/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
>     School of Law. It?s best to talk to a lawyer to determine your state?s
>     rules.
>
>     In fact, if you want to be sure your lender (or a collection
>     agency that
>     it may sell your loan to) won?t chase you down, it?s a good idea
>     to have
>     a lawyer involved with any short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure
>     itself. ?You must get the bank to agree in writing that any deficiency
>     is waived,? said Chip Parker, a lawyer specializing in foreclosure
>     with
>     Parker & DuFresne in Jacksonville, Fla.
>
>     The biggest challenge here may simply be finding someone at the
>     bank to
>     help. Having a second mortgage will also complicate matters.
>
>     YOUR TAXES You also need to consider the taxman. Often, forgiven debts
>     are taxable as income. Recent legislative changes, however, eliminate
>     the federal tax burden through 2012 on most primary residence debt
>     that
>     a lender has reduced through loan restructuring or forgiven during
>     foreclosure.
>
>     Mark Luscombe, principal analyst for CCH, a tax information service,
>     said that people who sell their home through a short sale or give
>     up the
>     deed in lieu of foreclosure can also qualify for tax relief if
>     they use
>     a special tax form, 1099-C, that reflects the amount of debt that the
>     lender has forgiven.
>
>     People who live in states with their own income taxes may avoid a big
>     bill as well. Some states, like Arizona and California, have
>     introduced
>     or passed legislation that echoes the federal laws, according to the
>     National Conference of State Legislatures. Many others tend to mimic
>     most or all federal income tax laws as a general rule, according
>     to CCH.
>     Check with an accountant in your state to be sure.
>
>     YOUR CREDIT A short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure itself will
>     almost
>     certainly damage your credit report and score, and the black mark will
>     last for up to seven years. But the amount of damage it does will
>     depend
>     on how much other credit trouble you?ve gotten yourself into with
>     other
>     lenders.
>
>     If you?re giving up the home you own, you?ll probably need to rent
>     soon
>     afterward. Will landlords turn you away once they check your
>     credit and
>     discover your troubled mortgage? ?If it?s the only thing marring their
>     credit, it?s probably not a big issue,? said Clay Powell, the director
>     of the Rental Property Owners Association of Michigan, who added that
>     good tenants could be scarce in economic environments like this one.
>
>     In fact, Todd J. Zywicki, a law professor at George Mason University,
>     predicted that FICO may have to adjust its credit scores
>     (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-scores/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
>     to lessen the impact of a foreclosure or similar incident. ?It just
>     seems obvious that a foreclosure in 2008 or 2009 doesn?t have as much
>     information value as a foreclosure five years ago,? he said. ?To the
>     extent that foreclosure doesn?t predict future behavior as much as it
>     did in the past, you?d expect that the FICO algorithm would change to
>     adjust for that.?
>
>     Craig Watts, a spokesman for FICO, said that was an interesting idea.
>     ?We try not to get involved too much in psychobabble around what
>     is and
>     isn?t predictive,? he said. ?If the numbers show that foreclosure is
>     less predictive, then we?ll take it into account in future
>     redevelopments of the formula.? That would take a minimum of two to
>     three years, though.
>
>     Some lenders aren?t waiting that long to initiate their own
>     foreclosure
>     destigmatization programs. The Golden 1, one of the nation?s largest
>     credit unions, now has a mortgage repair loan for people who have
>     lost a
>     home to foreclosure but want to buy a new one.
>
>     It?s hard to imagine that there won?t be a parade of insurance
>     (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/insurance/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
>     companies, credit card
>     (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-and-debit-cards/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
>     issuers and mortgage lenders in Golden 1?s wake, even though
>     Fannie Mae
>     (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/fannie_mae/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
>     and Freddie Mac
>     (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/freddie_mac/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
>     may be unwilling to guarantee the mortgages of such borrowers for
>     several years. In fact, Aaron Bresko, the vice president of
>     lending for
>     BECU, another large credit union based in Washington State, is putting
>     together a panel called ?How to Lend to the Newly Credit Impaired?
>     for a
>     conference later this year.
>
>     ?Good people have bad things happen to them, so how do you find those
>     people and reach out to them?? he said. ?As the year progresses, it?s
>     going to be an emerging market.?
>
>     How are you handling your mortgage problems?
>     Write to rlieber at nytimes.com <mailto:rlieber at nytimes.com>.
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     5-DayForum mailing list
>     5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>     <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>     http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
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From joannkelty8 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 16 14:12:30 2009
From: joannkelty8 at gmail.com (Jo Ann Kelty)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 14:12:30 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
In-Reply-To: <CBF8BF9D8EF14897AAE15BD8A47D397F@NSKHome>
References: <49BBC78A.1090606@effros.com>
	<ba6acdee0903161025x7f13fa39je6cdfd4125ec5dc1@mail.gmail.com>
	<CBF8BF9D8EF14897AAE15BD8A47D397F@NSKHome>
Message-ID: <ba6acdee0903161112i5fbf8bp30663c0a21225b50@mail.gmail.com>

Naji

I work for Attorneys that have a 98% success rate in getting both reduced
interest rates and reduction of the principal.. They negotiate with the
banks.. If you try to do it directly with the bank you will not have the
same success..   If we can not get a Modification the client recieves a 100%
refund...  Our mission is to help those that want to stay in thier
homes..... and we have helped hundreds of homeowners...

Jo Ann

2009/3/16 Naji <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>

>  Loan modifications without an *actual principal reduction to current
> market valuation* only benefits the banks, period! You?re better off
> walking away or doing a short sale than prolonging the inevitable.
>
>
>
> BTW, Loan Modification programs are being pushed (mostly) by the same banks
> and mortgage brokers that were giving away billions of dollars to
> unqualified buyers during the peak? It?s amazing that the same crooks that
> were telling a person making 40K a year they can afford a 500K home with 0
> down are the same ones getting into the loan modification business.
>
>
>
> -Naji
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- From my previous posting ----------
>
>
>
> Anyone that purchased a home or refinanced (and tapped their equity) in the
> last 5 years or so in many parts of the country (if not all of the country)
> is upside down on their mortgage, i.e house worth less than what?s owed on
> it, or are falling behind on payments:
>
>
>
> So what are the options if you?re in that situation:
>
>
>
>     1. Reinstatement - Determine the amount owed necessary to bring loan
>       current.
>          - This just prolongs the inevitable? If the house is worth much
>          less, especially in hard hit areas, expect to stay put for many many years
>          before you break even. So, you may find yourself in the same situation a few
>          month or years from now
>       2. Forbearance - Set up a payment plan to bring the loan current.
>          - Another option that?s not really going to work? If someone
>          cannot pay now, how will he be able to become current with more payments.
>       3. Modification - Adjust the loan terms (interest rate, payment and
>       length).
>          - Loan modification only benefits the banks at this point? They
>          just tack it on to the back end of the mortgage.
>          - This will only work if banks actually reduce the principal to
>          match current value. Unfortunately, less than 1% of loan modifications
>          result in principal reductions.
>       4. Deed-in-lieu - Give the property back to the lender.
>          - Works if the lender agrees to it and there aren?t 2nd, 3rd, etc
>          liens
>       5. Walk Away - Leave the property in the most beneficial way
>       possible.
>          - Stay as long as you can in the home ? You can stay at least 8
>          months before it goes to the bank and in states like Florida, expect to stay
>          almost 2 years.
>          - Don?t pay the mortgage, but instead save it all so you can
>          rebuild your life
>          - When it?s judgment time, find a place to rent and plan on
>          renting for a while
>          - You could also offload your property to someone as well
>       6. Short Sale - List the property for less than the amount owed.
>          - You can negotiate a short sale with your bank? You can do it
>          yourself or hire someone to do it on you behalf. It?s really not that
>          difficult, all it takes is communicating with your lender
>          - Many banks are getting easier to work with while others are
>          still in dreamville
>          - Expect this to take months due to the bank backlogs. Also, some
>          banks want to see the property on the market for at least 90 days before
>          agreeing to anything. Then they do their own BPO (which is still out of
>          whack) and wait like everyone else thinking they can get all their money
>          back?
>       7. Refinance - Obtain a new loan to replace the current loan(s).
>          - Will not work unless you?re going to bring a big chunk of
>          change to the table.
>       8. Excess Proceeds- Collecting excess money from the auction/sale of
>       the property.
>          - Wait until the property goes to the auction block and if
>          there?s any money left after the 1st Lien holder is paid, you may
>          get something back? Doubtful in many cases since all the homes going back
>          are worth less than the mortgage
>       9. Postponements - Delay the auction/sale date of the property.
>          - Delay the public auction of the property while you try to
>          figure something out
>          - This will only buy you time and you?ll still have to face the
>          music later
>       10. Stay In Your Home - Continue living in your current home.
>          - If you can afford the payments and are willing to stick it out
>          for 10 years or more, then just stay put
>
>
>
> -Naji
>
>
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com@
> mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri<5-dayforum-bounces%2Bnkhouri>
> =cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] *On Behalf Of *Jo Ann
> Kelty
> *Sent:* Monday, March 16, 2009 1:25 PM
> *To:* How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
>
>
>
> The one option that you did not mention was a Loan Modification.  This can
> reduce your interest rate thereby reducing your monthly payment so that you
> can afford to stay in your home.  In some cases but not all the principal
> amount can also be reducuded.. If you would like more information regarding
> if you can qualify please contact me.
>
>
>
> Jo Ann Kelty
>
> joannkelty8 at gmail.com
>
>
>
> 407-610-0736
>
> 407-756-6371  cell
>
> On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>
> Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
>
>
> March 14, 2009
> Your Money
> By RON LIEBER
> (
> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/l/ron_lieber/index.html?inline=nyt-per
> )
>
> If you?re among the millions of people who will not qualify for the
> Obama administration?s program to help troubled homeowners, you?re
> probably wondering what you?re supposed to do now.
>
> Perhaps you no longer have enough income to pay your loans
> (
> http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
> ).
> Or you can afford the payments but don?t qualify for refinancing under
> the new plan because the value of your home is too far below the balance
> of the loan. If you?re far enough underwater, you?re probably
> questioning the wisdom of writing a monthly check on a place that may
> take 10 or 15 years to get back to the value it had two or three years
> ago. It isn?t easy to come up with the answer, and if you have moral
> misgivings about not making good on your mortgage
> (
> http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/mortgages/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
> ),
> a religious officiant may offer as much useful guidance as a financial
> planner
> (
> http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/planning/financial-planners/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
> ).
>
> In an economic environment like this one, however, the consequences of
> giving up on your mortgage may not be as painful as they were a few
> years ago. Yes, it?s almost always preferable to negotiate a better deal
> on your existing mortgage than to walk away. But if you can?t work
> things out with your lender, you probably won?t be sued. You shouldn?t
> receive a major tax bill either. And the damage to your credit will not
> be permanent or insurmountable.
>
> Let?s look at these last three in order.
>
> YOUR LENDER First off, let?s define what we mean by ?giving up? on your
> current mortgage. It may mean trying for a short sale
> (
> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/s/short_selling/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
> ),
> where the lender allows you to sell your home for less than the mortgage
> amount. You may also hand over the deed to the home in exchange for the
> lender agreeing not to start foreclosure proceedings (a ?deed in lieu?
> in industry terms). Then, there?s foreclosure itself, and the
> possibility that bankruptcy judges may soon have the power to adjust the
> terms of primary mortgages.
>
> That said, just because you?re ineligible under the Obama plan doesn?t
> mean that your lender or servicer won?t ultimately adjust your mortgage
> anyhow. Collectively, there are enough people in trouble or under water
> on their loans that they have plenty of leverage if they?re willing to
> play chicken with their lender and threaten to stop paying.
>
> The problem is, the lender can play chicken, too, by threatening to come
> after you for the balance of any money you owe ? whether it?s the
> difference between what you sell the property for yourself and the
> remaining mortgage, or the loan amount left over after the lender sells
> your property in foreclosure.
>
> The lender may not follow through, though. ?What our membership is
> telling us is that it can be cost-prohibitive to chase down a borrower
> who is already in financial distress,? said John Mechem, a spokesman for
> the Mortgage Bankers Association. ?You can?t squeeze blood from a
> stone.? They may, however, still come after people with high incomes who
> walk away from jumbo loans that are way under water or loans on
> investment
> (
> http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/investments/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
> )
> properties.
>
> Some states have laws that may specifically prohibit lenders from
> pursuing borrowers for the balance of many mortgage loans after
> foreclosure, though the particulars vary. Arizona and California are
> among these states, according to Steven Bender, a professor at the
> University of Oregon
> (
> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/u/university_of_oregon/index.html?inline=nyt-org
> )
> School of Law. It?s best to talk to a lawyer to determine your state?s
> rules.
>
> In fact, if you want to be sure your lender (or a collection agency that
> it may sell your loan to) won?t chase you down, it?s a good idea to have
> a lawyer involved with any short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure
> itself. ?You must get the bank to agree in writing that any deficiency
> is waived,? said Chip Parker, a lawyer specializing in foreclosure with
> Parker & DuFresne in Jacksonville, Fla.
>
> The biggest challenge here may simply be finding someone at the bank to
> help. Having a second mortgage will also complicate matters.
>
> YOUR TAXES You also need to consider the taxman. Often, forgiven debts
> are taxable as income. Recent legislative changes, however, eliminate
> the federal tax burden through 2012 on most primary residence debt that
> a lender has reduced through loan restructuring or forgiven during
> foreclosure.
>
> Mark Luscombe, principal analyst for CCH, a tax information service,
> said that people who sell their home through a short sale or give up the
> deed in lieu of foreclosure can also qualify for tax relief if they use
> a special tax form, 1099-C, that reflects the amount of debt that the
> lender has forgiven.
>
> People who live in states with their own income taxes may avoid a big
> bill as well. Some states, like Arizona and California, have introduced
> or passed legislation that echoes the federal laws, according to the
> National Conference of State Legislatures. Many others tend to mimic
> most or all federal income tax laws as a general rule, according to CCH.
> Check with an accountant in your state to be sure.
>
> YOUR CREDIT A short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure itself will almost
> certainly damage your credit report and score, and the black mark will
> last for up to seven years. But the amount of damage it does will depend
> on how much other credit trouble you?ve gotten yourself into with other
> lenders.
>
> If you?re giving up the home you own, you?ll probably need to rent soon
> afterward. Will landlords turn you away once they check your credit and
> discover your troubled mortgage? ?If it?s the only thing marring their
> credit, it?s probably not a big issue,? said Clay Powell, the director
> of the Rental Property Owners Association of Michigan, who added that
> good tenants could be scarce in economic environments like this one.
>
> In fact, Todd J. Zywicki, a law professor at George Mason University,
> predicted that FICO may have to adjust its credit scores
> (
> http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-scores/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
> )
> to lessen the impact of a foreclosure or similar incident. ?It just
> seems obvious that a foreclosure in 2008 or 2009 doesn?t have as much
> information value as a foreclosure five years ago,? he said. ?To the
> extent that foreclosure doesn?t predict future behavior as much as it
> did in the past, you?d expect that the FICO algorithm would change to
> adjust for that.?
>
> Craig Watts, a spokesman for FICO, said that was an interesting idea.
> ?We try not to get involved too much in psychobabble around what is and
> isn?t predictive,? he said. ?If the numbers show that foreclosure is
> less predictive, then we?ll take it into account in future
> redevelopments of the formula.? That would take a minimum of two to
> three years, though.
>
> Some lenders aren?t waiting that long to initiate their own foreclosure
> destigmatization programs. The Golden 1, one of the nation?s largest
> credit unions, now has a mortgage repair loan for people who have lost a
> home to foreclosure but want to buy a new one.
>
> It?s hard to imagine that there won?t be a parade of insurance
> (
> http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/insurance/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
> )
> companies, credit card
> (
> http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-and-debit-cards/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
> )
> issuers and mortgage lenders in Golden 1?s wake, even though Fannie Mae
> (
> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/fannie_mae/index.html?inline=nyt-org
> )
> and Freddie Mac
> (
> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/freddie_mac/index.html?inline=nyt-org
> )
> may be unwilling to guarantee the mortgages of such borrowers for
> several years. In fact, Aaron Bresko, the vice president of lending for
> BECU, another large credit union based in Washington State, is putting
> together a panel called ?How to Lend to the Newly Credit Impaired? for a
> conference later this year.
>
> ?Good people have bad things happen to them, so how do you find those
> people and reach out to them?? he said. ?As the year progresses, it?s
> going to be an emerging market.?
>
> How are you handling your mortgage problems?
> Write to rlieber at nytimes.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
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>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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From joannkelty8 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 16 14:20:29 2009
From: joannkelty8 at gmail.com (Jo Ann Kelty)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 14:20:29 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
In-Reply-To: <ba6acdee0903161112i5fbf8bp30663c0a21225b50@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49BBC78A.1090606@effros.com>
	<ba6acdee0903161025x7f13fa39je6cdfd4125ec5dc1@mail.gmail.com>
	<CBF8BF9D8EF14897AAE15BD8A47D397F@NSKHome>
	<ba6acdee0903161112i5fbf8bp30663c0a21225b50@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ba6acdee0903161120t49c333bfg7800974e37259c03@mail.gmail.com>

Bill

I would agree if the homeowner is trying to negotiate with the banks
directly.. because they do not know all the laws involved that can be used.
We nornally get the Modification for a period of 5 years .. That give the
homeowner the opportunity to get out from under any financial dificulties
that they may be in at this time and if we are lucky the market may ( or may
not ) go up in value.... but it will give them some breathing room ..

If they negotiate with a bank ... the bank will normally only give them a 6
month reprive... and almost 50% will again be behind in thier payments at
the end of that period because they are back to the original payment.

Jo Ann

On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Naji
>
> I work for Attorneys that have a 98% success rate in getting both reduced
> interest rates and reduction of the principal.. They negotiate with the
> banks.. If you try to do it directly with the bank you will not have the
> same success..   If we can not get a Modification the client recieves a 100%
> refund...  Our mission is to help those that want to stay in thier
> homes..... and we have helped hundreds of homeowners...
>
> Jo Ann
>
> 2009/3/16 Naji <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>
>
>   Loan modifications without an *actual principal reduction to current
>> market valuation* only benefits the banks, period! You?re better off
>> walking away or doing a short sale than prolonging the inevitable.
>>
>>
>>
>> BTW, Loan Modification programs are being pushed (mostly) by the same
>> banks and mortgage brokers that were giving away billions of dollars to
>> unqualified buyers during the peak? It?s amazing that the same crooks that
>> were telling a person making 40K a year they can afford a 500K home with 0
>> down are the same ones getting into the loan modification business.
>>
>>
>>
>> -Naji
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- From my previous posting ----------
>>
>>
>>
>> Anyone that purchased a home or refinanced (and tapped their equity) in
>> the last 5 years or so in many parts of the country (if not all of the
>> country) is upside down on their mortgage, i.e house worth less than what?s
>> owed on it, or are falling behind on payments:
>>
>>
>>
>> So what are the options if you?re in that situation:
>>
>>
>>
>>     1. Reinstatement - Determine the amount owed necessary to bring loan
>>       current.
>>          - This just prolongs the inevitable? If the house is worth much
>>          less, especially in hard hit areas, expect to stay put for many many years
>>          before you break even. So, you may find yourself in the same situation a few
>>          month or years from now
>>       2. Forbearance - Set up a payment plan to bring the loan current.
>>          - Another option that?s not really going to work? If someone
>>          cannot pay now, how will he be able to become current with more payments.
>>       3. Modification - Adjust the loan terms (interest rate, payment and
>>       length).
>>          - Loan modification only benefits the banks at this point? They
>>          just tack it on to the back end of the mortgage.
>>          - This will only work if banks actually reduce the principal to
>>          match current value. Unfortunately, less than 1% of loan modifications
>>          result in principal reductions.
>>       4. Deed-in-lieu - Give the property back to the lender.
>>          - Works if the lender agrees to it and there aren?t 2nd, 3rd,
>>          etc liens
>>       5. Walk Away - Leave the property in the most beneficial way
>>       possible.
>>          - Stay as long as you can in the home ? You can stay at least 8
>>          months before it goes to the bank and in states like Florida, expect to stay
>>          almost 2 years.
>>          - Don?t pay the mortgage, but instead save it all so you can
>>          rebuild your life
>>          - When it?s judgment time, find a place to rent and plan on
>>          renting for a while
>>          - You could also offload your property to someone as well
>>       6. Short Sale - List the property for less than the amount owed.
>>          - You can negotiate a short sale with your bank? You can do it
>>          yourself or hire someone to do it on you behalf. It?s really not that
>>          difficult, all it takes is communicating with your lender
>>          - Many banks are getting easier to work with while others are
>>          still in dreamville
>>          - Expect this to take months due to the bank backlogs. Also,
>>          some banks want to see the property on the market for at least 90 days
>>          before agreeing to anything. Then they do their own BPO (which is still out
>>          of whack) and wait like everyone else thinking they can get all their money
>>          back?
>>       7. Refinance - Obtain a new loan to replace the current loan(s).
>>          - Will not work unless you?re going to bring a big chunk of
>>          change to the table.
>>       8. Excess Proceeds- Collecting excess money from the auction/sale
>>       of the property.
>>          - Wait until the property goes to the auction block and if
>>          there?s any money left after the 1st Lien holder is paid, you
>>          may get something back? Doubtful in many cases since all the homes going
>>          back are worth less than the mortgage
>>       9. Postponements - Delay the auction/sale date of the property.
>>          - Delay the public auction of the property while you try to
>>          figure something out
>>          - This will only buy you time and you?ll still have to face the
>>          music later
>>       10. Stay In Your Home - Continue living in your current home.
>>          - If you can afford the payments and are willing to stick it out
>>          for 10 years or more, then just stay put
>>
>>
>>
>> -Naji
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  ------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com@
>> mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri<5-dayforum-bounces%2Bnkhouri>
>> =cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] *On Behalf Of *Jo Ann
>> Kelty
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 16, 2009 1:25 PM
>> *To:* How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
>> *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
>>
>>
>>
>> The one option that you did not mention was a Loan Modification.  This can
>> reduce your interest rate thereby reducing your monthly payment so that you
>> can afford to stay in your home.  In some cases but not all the principal
>> amount can also be reducuded.. If you would like more information regarding
>> if you can qualify please contact me.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jo Ann Kelty
>>
>> joannkelty8 at gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>> 407-610-0736
>>
>> 407-756-6371  cell
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>>
>> Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
>>
>>
>> March 14, 2009
>> Your Money
>> By RON LIEBER
>> (
>> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/l/ron_lieber/index.html?inline=nyt-per
>> )
>>
>> If you?re among the millions of people who will not qualify for the
>> Obama administration?s program to help troubled homeowners, you?re
>> probably wondering what you?re supposed to do now.
>>
>> Perhaps you no longer have enough income to pay your loans
>> (
>> http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
>> ).
>> Or you can afford the payments but don?t qualify for refinancing under
>> the new plan because the value of your home is too far below the balance
>> of the loan. If you?re far enough underwater, you?re probably
>> questioning the wisdom of writing a monthly check on a place that may
>> take 10 or 15 years to get back to the value it had two or three years
>> ago. It isn?t easy to come up with the answer, and if you have moral
>> misgivings about not making good on your mortgage
>> (
>> http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/mortgages/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
>> ),
>> a religious officiant may offer as much useful guidance as a financial
>> planner
>> (
>> http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/planning/financial-planners/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
>> ).
>>
>> In an economic environment like this one, however, the consequences of
>> giving up on your mortgage may not be as painful as they were a few
>> years ago. Yes, it?s almost always preferable to negotiate a better deal
>> on your existing mortgage than to walk away. But if you can?t work
>> things out with your lender, you probably won?t be sued. You shouldn?t
>> receive a major tax bill either. And the damage to your credit will not
>> be permanent or insurmountable.
>>
>> Let?s look at these last three in order.
>>
>> YOUR LENDER First off, let?s define what we mean by ?giving up? on your
>> current mortgage. It may mean trying for a short sale
>> (
>> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/s/short_selling/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
>> ),
>> where the lender allows you to sell your home for less than the mortgage
>> amount. You may also hand over the deed to the home in exchange for the
>> lender agreeing not to start foreclosure proceedings (a ?deed in lieu?
>> in industry terms). Then, there?s foreclosure itself, and the
>> possibility that bankruptcy judges may soon have the power to adjust the
>> terms of primary mortgages.
>>
>> That said, just because you?re ineligible under the Obama plan doesn?t
>> mean that your lender or servicer won?t ultimately adjust your mortgage
>> anyhow. Collectively, there are enough people in trouble or under water
>> on their loans that they have plenty of leverage if they?re willing to
>> play chicken with their lender and threaten to stop paying.
>>
>> The problem is, the lender can play chicken, too, by threatening to come
>> after you for the balance of any money you owe ? whether it?s the
>> difference between what you sell the property for yourself and the
>> remaining mortgage, or the loan amount left over after the lender sells
>> your property in foreclosure.
>>
>> The lender may not follow through, though. ?What our membership is
>> telling us is that it can be cost-prohibitive to chase down a borrower
>> who is already in financial distress,? said John Mechem, a spokesman for
>> the Mortgage Bankers Association. ?You can?t squeeze blood from a
>> stone.? They may, however, still come after people with high incomes who
>> walk away from jumbo loans that are way under water or loans on
>> investment
>> (
>> http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/investments/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
>> )
>> properties.
>>
>> Some states have laws that may specifically prohibit lenders from
>> pursuing borrowers for the balance of many mortgage loans after
>> foreclosure, though the particulars vary. Arizona and California are
>> among these states, according to Steven Bender, a professor at the
>> University of Oregon
>> (
>> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/u/university_of_oregon/index.html?inline=nyt-org
>> )
>> School of Law. It?s best to talk to a lawyer to determine your state?s
>> rules.
>>
>> In fact, if you want to be sure your lender (or a collection agency that
>> it may sell your loan to) won?t chase you down, it?s a good idea to have
>> a lawyer involved with any short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure
>> itself. ?You must get the bank to agree in writing that any deficiency
>> is waived,? said Chip Parker, a lawyer specializing in foreclosure with
>> Parker & DuFresne in Jacksonville, Fla.
>>
>> The biggest challenge here may simply be finding someone at the bank to
>> help. Having a second mortgage will also complicate matters.
>>
>> YOUR TAXES You also need to consider the taxman. Often, forgiven debts
>> are taxable as income. Recent legislative changes, however, eliminate
>> the federal tax burden through 2012 on most primary residence debt that
>> a lender has reduced through loan restructuring or forgiven during
>> foreclosure.
>>
>> Mark Luscombe, principal analyst for CCH, a tax information service,
>> said that people who sell their home through a short sale or give up the
>> deed in lieu of foreclosure can also qualify for tax relief if they use
>> a special tax form, 1099-C, that reflects the amount of debt that the
>> lender has forgiven.
>>
>> People who live in states with their own income taxes may avoid a big
>> bill as well. Some states, like Arizona and California, have introduced
>> or passed legislation that echoes the federal laws, according to the
>> National Conference of State Legislatures. Many others tend to mimic
>> most or all federal income tax laws as a general rule, according to CCH.
>> Check with an accountant in your state to be sure.
>>
>> YOUR CREDIT A short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure itself will almost
>> certainly damage your credit report and score, and the black mark will
>> last for up to seven years. But the amount of damage it does will depend
>> on how much other credit trouble you?ve gotten yourself into with other
>> lenders.
>>
>> If you?re giving up the home you own, you?ll probably need to rent soon
>> afterward. Will landlords turn you away once they check your credit and
>> discover your troubled mortgage? ?If it?s the only thing marring their
>> credit, it?s probably not a big issue,? said Clay Powell, the director
>> of the Rental Property Owners Association of Michigan, who added that
>> good tenants could be scarce in economic environments like this one.
>>
>> In fact, Todd J. Zywicki, a law professor at George Mason University,
>> predicted that FICO may have to adjust its credit scores
>> (
>> http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-scores/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
>> )
>> to lessen the impact of a foreclosure or similar incident. ?It just
>> seems obvious that a foreclosure in 2008 or 2009 doesn?t have as much
>> information value as a foreclosure five years ago,? he said. ?To the
>> extent that foreclosure doesn?t predict future behavior as much as it
>> did in the past, you?d expect that the FICO algorithm would change to
>> adjust for that.?
>>
>> Craig Watts, a spokesman for FICO, said that was an interesting idea.
>> ?We try not to get involved too much in psychobabble around what is and
>> isn?t predictive,? he said. ?If the numbers show that foreclosure is
>> less predictive, then we?ll take it into account in future
>> redevelopments of the formula.? That would take a minimum of two to
>> three years, though.
>>
>> Some lenders aren?t waiting that long to initiate their own foreclosure
>> destigmatization programs. The Golden 1, one of the nation?s largest
>> credit unions, now has a mortgage repair loan for people who have lost a
>> home to foreclosure but want to buy a new one.
>>
>> It?s hard to imagine that there won?t be a parade of insurance
>> (
>> http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/insurance/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
>> )
>> companies, credit card
>> (
>> http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-and-debit-cards/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
>> )
>> issuers and mortgage lenders in Golden 1?s wake, even though Fannie Mae
>> (
>> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/fannie_mae/index.html?inline=nyt-org
>> )
>> and Freddie Mac
>> (
>> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/freddie_mac/index.html?inline=nyt-org
>> )
>> may be unwilling to guarantee the mortgages of such borrowers for
>> several years. In fact, Aaron Bresko, the vice president of lending for
>> BECU, another large credit union based in Washington State, is putting
>> together a panel called ?How to Lend to the Newly Credit Impaired? for a
>> conference later this year.
>>
>> ?Good people have bad things happen to them, so how do you find those
>> people and reach out to them?? he said. ?As the year progresses, it?s
>> going to be an emerging market.?
>>
>> How are you handling your mortgage problems?
>> Write to rlieber at nytimes.com.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> 5-DayForum mailing list
>> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>>
>> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> 5-DayForum mailing list
>> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>>
>> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>
>>
>
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From bill at effros.com  Mon Mar 16 14:41:21 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 14:41:21 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] My 5 Day Sale
In-Reply-To: <9CC2EB348A7C47E5B09F9D7891DF2799@owner92923b38f>
References: <9CC2EB348A7C47E5B09F9D7891DF2799@owner92923b38f>
Message-ID: <49BE9D51.4030309@effros.com>

Wade,

Thanks for the report.

I know it's hard to believe that doing the 5-Day Method properly makes a 
difference, but it does.

$94,500 is not a "Magic Number".  Magic numbers pull.

At $74,500 -- which should have been your starting point -- you would 
have had 25 responses by Friday night even with the newspaper screw-up, 
and without moving your ad from where it should have been, to where it 
shouldn't have been.

Enough people know about the 5-Day Method to be able to read into your 
$94,500 starting price that you weren't going to let that property go 
for much under $200,000--which is probably substantially more than it is 
currently worth.

The signs are always a mistake.  They throw off your ability to judge 
response totals, turn off real buyers, and attract the curious with 
nothing better to do.

Rental properties are worth 10 times the rent roll.  What were you 
renting that property for?

Bill Effros
Author

Wade Fenner wrote:
> *_Well I just held my 5 Day Sale and here is how it went:_*
> ** 
> ** 
> *Location:* Edmonton AB Canada pop. incl area over 1,000,000
>  
> *Property:* 2 storey three bedroom townhouse, one bath, developed 
> basement, fully renovated 18 months ago with everything done & new 
> appliances. It looks Great....and repainted last fall when the tenant 
> moved out.
>  
> *Price:* Listed at $94,500 with an expected net of at lease $170-180. 
> (My guess is the property could sell for around 180-185 with a realtor 
> so my expectation was pretty low in my opinion but I was willing to 
> accept a net after commissions etc)
>  
> *Advertising:*
>  
>
>     * I placed a 2 column wide by 2.25 " high display ad in the real
>       estate section as per the book example. The ad was to run wed,
>       thur, fri, sat, sun as instructed. The newspaper co. messed up
>       and did not get my ad in by wed so I doubled up the ad for thur
>       & fri by placing the ad in the very front section of the paper.
>       *Total cost $1,900.*
>     * Kijiji, Craigs list and in my monthly re group website
>
>  
> *Signs:* I had 20 signs made up 24' wide by 18" high that read (House 
> Auction, To Be Sold Sunday Night, Higgest Bidder, Inspection: Sat & 
> Sunday, Ph & email address) these were made up as per exaples on the 
> site (bright yellow, red, etc). These were set up on street poles on 
> Wed afternoon. Plus 2 24 x 60 signs attached to my truck on the main 
> road leading to my unit. *Cost about $4-500*
>  
> *Calls*: By Friday morning I had 20+ calls (remember my ad only cale 
> out Thurs. By Sat noon I had over 30 calls, by sat night I had 45 
> calls, by sun noon around 50 calls.
>  
> *Open House:* Sat 7-8 different parties showed up with 2 bids on the 
> bid sheet. Sun about 20 parties & a total of 12 bids.
>  
>  
> *Bidding*: 4 peopled bailed immediately. 3-4 bailed in the first 3-4 
> rounds, finally few bailed in the next few rounds with the last person 
> sitting at $163k. There was only one serious bidder.
>  
> *Conclusion:* I need more than one serious bidder to get the price up. 
> Was I impressed? No, not by the results but the process has got my 
> attention and I will do it again but probably with a modification or 
> two I'm just not sure what yet. I spent good money on ads & signs 
> $2,500. and had a very low expectation of price......
>  
> Cheers,
>  
> Wade Fenner
>  
>  
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
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From bill at effros.com  Mon Mar 16 14:54:06 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 14:54:06 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
In-Reply-To: <ba6acdee0903161120t49c333bfg7800974e37259c03@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49BBC78A.1090606@effros.com>	<ba6acdee0903161025x7f13fa39je6cdfd4125ec5dc1@mail.gmail.com>	<CBF8BF9D8EF14897AAE15BD8A47D397F@NSKHome>	<ba6acdee0903161112i5fbf8bp30663c0a21225b50@mail.gmail.com>
	<ba6acdee0903161120t49c333bfg7800974e37259c03@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49BEA04E.4000003@effros.com>

Jo Ann,

Naji's point, and my point is that many homes in many places are not 
worth the current value of the principal and probably will never ever be 
worth the value of the principal.

A case in point would be a retirement community in Fort Meyers, Fla. 
where 64 of the 65 homes have been foreclosed.  That 65th home owner 
should get out of there as quickly as possible, and before paying any 
more money on the mortgage.  None of those homes will ever be lived in 
again.

While this may seem like an extreme example, there are, at the least, 
100,000s of thousands of homes that fall into this category at this 
time.  100% of their current value will be lost -- the only question is 
who will take the hit.  Let the banks and the taxpayers take the rest of 
the hit.  The home buyer has been hurt enough already, don't make it worse.

This is not to say payment reduction may not be good for some people.

But many on this list would be much better off immediately selling their 
homes either to the high bidder in a 5-Day Sale, or to their banks if 
the bank will not accept the current value of the home.

Bill Effros
Author

PS -- Is it principal or principle...the principal is your pal...??



Jo Ann Kelty wrote:
> Bill
>  
> I would agree if the homeowner is trying to negotiate with the banks 
> directly.. because they do not know all the laws involved that can be 
> used.  We nornally get the Modification for a period of 5 years .. 
> That give the homeowner the opportunity to get out from under any 
> financial dificulties that they may be in at this time and if we are 
> lucky the market may ( or may not ) go up in value.... but it will 
> give them some breathing room ..
>  
> If they negotiate with a bank ... the bank will normally only give 
> them a 6 month reprive... and almost 50% will again be behind in thier 
> payments at the end of that period because they are back to the 
> original payment.
>  
> Jo Ann
>
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com 
> <mailto:joannkelty8 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Naji
>      
>     I work for Attorneys that have a 98% success rate in getting both
>     reduced interest rates and reduction of the principal.. They
>     negotiate with the banks.. If you try to do it directly with the
>     bank you will not have the same success..   If we can not get a
>     Modification the client recieves a 100% refund...  Our mission is
>     to help those that want to stay in thier homes..... and we have
>     helped hundreds of homeowners...
>      
>     Jo Ann
>
>     2009/3/16 Naji <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com <mailto:nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>>
>
>         Loan modifications without an *actual principal reduction to
>         current market valuation* only benefits the banks, period!
>         You?re better off walking away or doing a short sale than
>         prolonging the inevitable.
>
>          
>
>         BTW, Loan Modification programs are being pushed (mostly) by
>         the same banks and mortgage brokers that were giving away
>         billions of dollars to unqualified buyers during the peak?
>         It?s amazing that the same crooks that were telling a person
>         making 40K a year they can afford a 500K home with 0 down are
>         the same ones getting into the loan modification business.
>
>          
>
>         -Naji
>
>          
>
>          
>
>         ---------- From my previous posting ----------
>
>          
>
>         Anyone that purchased a home or refinanced (and tapped their
>         equity) in the last 5 years or so in many parts of the country
>         (if not all of the country) is upside down on their mortgage,
>         i.e house worth less than what?s owed on it, or are falling
>         behind on payments:
>
>          
>
>         So what are the options if you?re in that situation:
>
>          
>
>                  1. Reinstatement - Determine the amount owed
>                     necessary to bring loan current.
>                         o This just prolongs the inevitable? If the
>                           house is worth much less, especially in hard
>                           hit areas, expect to stay put for many many
>                           years before you break even. So, you may
>                           find yourself in the same situation a few
>                           month or years from now
>                  2. Forbearance - Set up a payment plan to bring the
>                     loan current.
>                         o Another option that?s not really going to
>                           work? If someone cannot pay now, how will he
>                           be able to become current with more payments.
>                  3. Modification - Adjust the loan terms (interest
>                     rate, payment and length).
>                         o Loan modification only benefits the banks at
>                           this point? They just tack it on to the back
>                           end of the mortgage.
>                         o This will only work if banks actually reduce
>                           the principal to match current value.
>                           Unfortunately, less than 1% of loan
>                           modifications result in principal reductions.
>                  4. Deed-in-lieu - Give the property back to the lender.
>                         o Works if the lender agrees to it and there
>                           aren?t 2^nd , 3^rd , etc liens
>                  5. Walk Away - Leave the property in the most
>                     beneficial way possible.
>                         o Stay as long as you can in the home ? You
>                           can stay at least 8 months before it goes to
>                           the bank and in states like Florida, expect
>                           to stay almost 2 years.
>                         o Don?t pay the mortgage, but instead save it
>                           all so you can rebuild your life
>                         o When it?s judgment time, find a place to
>                           rent and plan on renting for a while
>                         o You could also offload your property to
>                           someone as well
>                  6. Short Sale - List the property for less than the
>                     amount owed.
>                         o You can negotiate a short sale with your
>                           bank? You can do it yourself or hire someone
>                           to do it on you behalf. It?s really not that
>                           difficult, all it takes is communicating
>                           with your lender
>                         o Many banks are getting easier to work with
>                           while others are still in dreamville
>                         o Expect this to take months due to the bank
>                           backlogs. Also, some banks want to see the
>                           property on the market for at least 90 days
>                           before agreeing to anything. Then they do
>                           their own BPO (which is still out of whack)
>                           and wait like everyone else thinking they
>                           can get all their money back?
>                  7. Refinance - Obtain a new loan to replace the
>                     current loan(s).
>                         o Will not work unless you?re going to bring a
>                           big chunk of change to the table.
>                  8. Excess Proceeds- Collecting excess money from the
>                     auction/sale of the property.
>                         o Wait until the property goes to the auction
>                           block and if there?s any money left after
>                           the 1^st Lien holder is paid, you may get
>                           something back? Doubtful in many cases since
>                           all the homes going back are worth less than
>                           the mortgage
>                  9. Postponements - Delay the auction/sale date of the
>                     property.
>                         o Delay the public auction of the property
>                           while you try to figure something out
>                         o This will only buy you time and you?ll still
>                           have to face the music later
>                 10. Stay In Your Home - Continue living in your
>                     current home.
>                         o If you can afford the payments and are
>                           willing to stick it out for 10 years or
>                           more, then just stay put
>
>          
>
>         -Naji
>
>          
>
>          
>
>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>         *From:* 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com
>         <http://cfl.rr.com/>@mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>         <http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/>
>         [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri
>         <mailto:5-dayforum-bounces%2Bnkhouri>=cfl.rr.com
>         <http://cfl.rr.com/>@mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>         <http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/>] *On Behalf Of
>         *Jo Ann Kelty
>         *Sent:* Monday, March 16, 2009 1:25 PM
>         *To:* How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
>         *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your
>         Home Loan
>
>          
>
>         The one option that you did not mention was a Loan
>         Modification.  This can reduce your interest rate thereby
>         reducing your monthly payment so that you can afford to stay
>         in your home.  In some cases but not all the principal amount
>         can also be reducuded.. If you would like more information
>         regarding if you can qualify please contact me. 
>
>          
>
>         Jo Ann Kelty
>
>         joannkelty8 at gmail.com <mailto:joannkelty8 at gmail.com>
>
>          
>
>         407-610-0736 
>
>         407-756-6371  cell
>
>         On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com
>         <mailto:bill at effros.com>> wrote:
>
>         Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
>
>
>         March 14, 2009
>         Your Money
>         By RON LIEBER
>         (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/l/ron_lieber/index.html?inline=nyt-per)
>
>         If you?re among the millions of people who will not qualify
>         for the
>         Obama administration?s program to help troubled homeowners, you?re
>         probably wondering what you?re supposed to do now.
>
>         Perhaps you no longer have enough income to pay your loans
>         (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier).
>         Or you can afford the payments but don?t qualify for
>         refinancing under
>         the new plan because the value of your home is too far below
>         the balance
>         of the loan. If you?re far enough underwater, you?re probably
>         questioning the wisdom of writing a monthly check on a place
>         that may
>         take 10 or 15 years to get back to the value it had two or
>         three years
>         ago. It isn?t easy to come up with the answer, and if you have
>         moral
>         misgivings about not making good on your mortgage
>         (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/mortgages/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier),
>         a religious officiant may offer as much useful guidance as a
>         financial
>         planner
>         (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/planning/financial-planners/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier).
>
>         In an economic environment like this one, however, the
>         consequences of
>         giving up on your mortgage may not be as painful as they were
>         a few
>         years ago. Yes, it?s almost always preferable to negotiate a
>         better deal
>         on your existing mortgage than to walk away. But if you can?t work
>         things out with your lender, you probably won?t be sued. You
>         shouldn?t
>         receive a major tax bill either. And the damage to your credit
>         will not
>         be permanent or insurmountable.
>
>         Let?s look at these last three in order.
>
>         YOUR LENDER First off, let?s define what we mean by ?giving
>         up? on your
>         current mortgage. It may mean trying for a short sale
>         (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/s/short_selling/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier),
>         where the lender allows you to sell your home for less than
>         the mortgage
>         amount. You may also hand over the deed to the home in
>         exchange for the
>         lender agreeing not to start foreclosure proceedings (a ?deed
>         in lieu?
>         in industry terms). Then, there?s foreclosure itself, and the
>         possibility that bankruptcy judges may soon have the power to
>         adjust the
>         terms of primary mortgages.
>
>         That said, just because you?re ineligible under the Obama plan
>         doesn?t
>         mean that your lender or servicer won?t ultimately adjust your
>         mortgage
>         anyhow. Collectively, there are enough people in trouble or
>         under water
>         on their loans that they have plenty of leverage if they?re
>         willing to
>         play chicken with their lender and threaten to stop paying.
>
>         The problem is, the lender can play chicken, too, by
>         threatening to come
>         after you for the balance of any money you owe ? whether it?s the
>         difference between what you sell the property for yourself and the
>         remaining mortgage, or the loan amount left over after the
>         lender sells
>         your property in foreclosure.
>
>         The lender may not follow through, though. ?What our membership is
>         telling us is that it can be cost-prohibitive to chase down a
>         borrower
>         who is already in financial distress,? said John Mechem, a
>         spokesman for
>         the Mortgage Bankers Association. ?You can?t squeeze blood from a
>         stone.? They may, however, still come after people with high
>         incomes who
>         walk away from jumbo loans that are way under water or loans on
>         investment
>         (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/investments/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
>         properties.
>
>         Some states have laws that may specifically prohibit lenders from
>         pursuing borrowers for the balance of many mortgage loans after
>         foreclosure, though the particulars vary. Arizona and
>         California are
>         among these states, according to Steven Bender, a professor at the
>         University of Oregon
>         (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/u/university_of_oregon/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
>         School of Law. It?s best to talk to a lawyer to determine your
>         state?s
>         rules.
>
>         In fact, if you want to be sure your lender (or a collection
>         agency that
>         it may sell your loan to) won?t chase you down, it?s a good
>         idea to have
>         a lawyer involved with any short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure
>         itself. ?You must get the bank to agree in writing that any
>         deficiency
>         is waived,? said Chip Parker, a lawyer specializing in
>         foreclosure with
>         Parker & DuFresne in Jacksonville, Fla.
>
>         The biggest challenge here may simply be finding someone at
>         the bank to
>         help. Having a second mortgage will also complicate matters.
>
>         YOUR TAXES You also need to consider the taxman. Often,
>         forgiven debts
>         are taxable as income. Recent legislative changes, however,
>         eliminate
>         the federal tax burden through 2012 on most primary residence
>         debt that
>         a lender has reduced through loan restructuring or forgiven during
>         foreclosure.
>
>         Mark Luscombe, principal analyst for CCH, a tax information
>         service,
>         said that people who sell their home through a short sale or
>         give up the
>         deed in lieu of foreclosure can also qualify for tax relief if
>         they use
>         a special tax form, 1099-C, that reflects the amount of debt
>         that the
>         lender has forgiven.
>
>         People who live in states with their own income taxes may
>         avoid a big
>         bill as well. Some states, like Arizona and California, have
>         introduced
>         or passed legislation that echoes the federal laws, according
>         to the
>         National Conference of State Legislatures. Many others tend to
>         mimic
>         most or all federal income tax laws as a general rule,
>         according to CCH.
>         Check with an accountant in your state to be sure.
>
>         YOUR CREDIT A short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure itself
>         will almost
>         certainly damage your credit report and score, and the black
>         mark will
>         last for up to seven years. But the amount of damage it does
>         will depend
>         on how much other credit trouble you?ve gotten yourself into
>         with other
>         lenders.
>
>         If you?re giving up the home you own, you?ll probably need to
>         rent soon
>         afterward. Will landlords turn you away once they check your
>         credit and
>         discover your troubled mortgage? ?If it?s the only thing
>         marring their
>         credit, it?s probably not a big issue,? said Clay Powell, the
>         director
>         of the Rental Property Owners Association of Michigan, who
>         added that
>         good tenants could be scarce in economic environments like
>         this one.
>
>         In fact, Todd J. Zywicki, a law professor at George Mason
>         University,
>         predicted that FICO may have to adjust its credit scores
>         (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-scores/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
>         to lessen the impact of a foreclosure or similar incident. ?It
>         just
>         seems obvious that a foreclosure in 2008 or 2009 doesn?t have
>         as much
>         information value as a foreclosure five years ago,? he said.
>         ?To the
>         extent that foreclosure doesn?t predict future behavior as
>         much as it
>         did in the past, you?d expect that the FICO algorithm would
>         change to
>         adjust for that.?
>
>         Craig Watts, a spokesman for FICO, said that was an
>         interesting idea.
>         ?We try not to get involved too much in psychobabble around
>         what is and
>         isn?t predictive,? he said. ?If the numbers show that
>         foreclosure is
>         less predictive, then we?ll take it into account in future
>         redevelopments of the formula.? That would take a minimum of
>         two to
>         three years, though.
>
>         Some lenders aren?t waiting that long to initiate their own
>         foreclosure
>         destigmatization programs. The Golden 1, one of the nation?s
>         largest
>         credit unions, now has a mortgage repair loan for people who
>         have lost a
>         home to foreclosure but want to buy a new one.
>
>         It?s hard to imagine that there won?t be a parade of insurance
>         (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/insurance/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
>         companies, credit card
>         (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-and-debit-cards/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
>         issuers and mortgage lenders in Golden 1?s wake, even though
>         Fannie Mae
>         (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/fannie_mae/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
>         and Freddie Mac
>         (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/freddie_mac/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
>         may be unwilling to guarantee the mortgages of such borrowers for
>         several years. In fact, Aaron Bresko, the vice president of
>         lending for
>         BECU, another large credit union based in Washington State, is
>         putting
>         together a panel called ?How to Lend to the Newly Credit
>         Impaired? for a
>         conference later this year.
>
>         ?Good people have bad things happen to them, so how do you
>         find those
>         people and reach out to them?? he said. ?As the year
>         progresses, it?s
>         going to be an emerging market.?
>
>         How are you handling your mortgage problems?
>         Write to rlieber at nytimes.com <mailto:rlieber at nytimes.com>.
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         5-DayForum mailing list
>         5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>         <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>         http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>          
>
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         5-DayForum mailing list
>         5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>         <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>         http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
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From nkhouri at cfl.rr.com  Mon Mar 16 15:02:30 2009
From: nkhouri at cfl.rr.com (Naji)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 15:02:30 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
In-Reply-To: <49BEA04E.4000003@effros.com>
References: <49BBC78A.1090606@effros.com>	<ba6acdee0903161025x7f13fa39je6cdfd4125ec5dc1@mail.gmail.com>	<CBF8BF9D8EF14897AAE15BD8A47D397F@NSKHome>	<ba6acdee0903161112i5fbf8bp30663c0a21225b50@mail.gmail.com><ba6acdee0903161120t49c333bfg7800974e37259c03@mail.gmail.com>
	<49BEA04E.4000003@effros.com>
Message-ID: <82B5E5D7579048D49980B643199686F7@NSKHome>

Definitions 

Principal 

adjective 

*             first or highest in rank, importance, value, etc.; chief;
foremost. 

noun 

*             a chief or head of an organization 

*             something of primary importance 

*             Law. a person who authorizes another (an agent) to represent
him or her 

*             Finance. a capital sum, the main amount of a loan or
investment (as distinguished from interest or profit) 

Principle noun 

*             a fundamental assumption. The principles of physics dictate
that you cannot travel faster than the speed of light. 

*             a generally acceptable rule of action or behaviour. moral
principles 

 

 

  _____  

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:54 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan

 

Jo Ann,

Naji's point, and my point is that many homes in many places are not worth
the current value of the principal and probably will never ever be worth the
value of the principal.

A case in point would be a retirement community in Fort Meyers, Fla. where
64 of the 65 homes have been foreclosed.  That 65th home owner should get
out of there as quickly as possible, and before paying any more money on the
mortgage.  None of those homes will ever be lived in again.

While this may seem like an extreme example, there are, at the least,
100,000s of thousands of homes that fall into this category at this time.
100% of their current value will be lost -- the only question is who will
take the hit.  Let the banks and the taxpayers take the rest of the hit.
The home buyer has been hurt enough already, don't make it worse.

This is not to say payment reduction may not be good for some people.

But many on this list would be much better off immediately selling their
homes either to the high bidder in a 5-Day Sale, or to their banks if the
bank will not accept the current value of the home.

Bill Effros
Author

PS -- Is it principal or principle...the principal is your pal...??



Jo Ann Kelty wrote: 

Bill 

 

I would agree if the homeowner is trying to negotiate with the banks
directly.. because they do not know all the laws involved that can be used.
We nornally get the Modification for a period of 5 years .. That give the
homeowner the opportunity to get out from under any financial dificulties
that they may be in at this time and if we are lucky the market may ( or may
not ) go up in value.... but it will give them some breathing room ..

 

If they negotiate with a bank ... the bank will normally only give them a 6
month reprive... and almost 50% will again be behind in thier payments at
the end of that period because they are back to the original payment.

 

Jo Ann

On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com> wrote:

Naji

 

I work for Attorneys that have a 98% success rate in getting both reduced
interest rates and reduction of the principal.. They negotiate with the
banks.. If you try to do it directly with the bank you will not have the
same success..   If we can not get a Modification the client recieves a 100%
refund...  Our mission is to help those that want to stay in thier
homes..... and we have helped hundreds of homeowners...

 

Jo Ann

2009/3/16 Naji <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com> 

 

Loan modifications without an actual principal reduction to current market
valuation only benefits the banks, period! You're better off walking away or
doing a short sale than prolonging the inevitable.

 

BTW, Loan Modification programs are being pushed (mostly) by the same banks
and mortgage brokers that were giving away billions of dollars to
unqualified buyers during the peak. It's amazing that the same crooks that
were telling a person making 40K a year they can afford a 500K home with 0
down are the same ones getting into the loan modification business.

 

-Naji

 

 

---------- >From my previous posting ----------

 

Anyone that purchased a home or refinanced (and tapped their equity) in the
last 5 years or so in many parts of the country (if not all of the country)
is upside down on their mortgage, i.e house worth less than what's owed on
it, or are falling behind on payments:

 

So what are the options if you're in that situation:

 

1.	Reinstatement - Determine the amount owed necessary to bring loan
current. 

*	This just prolongs the inevitable. If the house is worth much less,
especially in hard hit areas, expect to stay put for many many years before
you break even. So, you may find yourself in the same situation a few month
or years from now 

2.	Forbearance - Set up a payment plan to bring the loan current. 

*	Another option that's not really going to work. If someone cannot
pay now, how will he be able to become current with more payments. 

3.	Modification - Adjust the loan terms (interest rate, payment and
length). 

*	Loan modification only benefits the banks at this point. They just
tack it on to the back end of the mortgage. 
*	This will only work if banks actually reduce the principal to match
current value. Unfortunately, less than 1% of loan modifications result in
principal reductions. 

4.	Deed-in-lieu - Give the property back to the lender. 

*	Works if the lender agrees to it and there aren't 2nd, 3rd, etc
liens 

5.	Walk Away - Leave the property in the most beneficial way possible. 

*	Stay as long as you can in the home - You can stay at least 8 months
before it goes to the bank and in states like Florida, expect to stay almost
2 years. 
*	Don't pay the mortgage, but instead save it all so you can rebuild
your life 
*	When it's judgment time, find a place to rent and plan on renting
for a while 
*	You could also offload your property to someone as well 

6.	Short Sale - List the property for less than the amount owed. 

*	You can negotiate a short sale with your bank. You can do it
yourself or hire someone to do it on you behalf. It's really not that
difficult, all it takes is communicating with your lender 
*	Many banks are getting easier to work with while others are still in
dreamville 
*	Expect this to take months due to the bank backlogs. Also, some
banks want to see the property on the market for at least 90 days before
agreeing to anything. Then they do their own BPO (which is still out of
whack) and wait like everyone else thinking they can get all their money
back. 

7.	Refinance - Obtain a new loan to replace the current loan(s). 

*	Will not work unless you're going to bring a big chunk of change to
the table. 

8.	Excess Proceeds- Collecting excess money from the auction/sale of
the property. 

*	Wait until the property goes to the auction block and if there's any
money left after the 1st Lien holder is paid, you may get something back.
Doubtful in many cases since all the homes going back are worth less than
the mortgage 

9.	Postponements - Delay the auction/sale date of the property. 

*	Delay the public auction of the property while you try to figure
something out 
*	This will only buy you time and you'll still have to face the music
later 

10.	Stay In Your Home - Continue living in your current home. 

*	If you can afford the payments and are willing to stick it out for
10 years or more, then just stay put 

 

-Naji

 

 


  _____  


From: 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com <http://cfl.rr.com/>
@mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
<http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/>
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri <mailto:5-dayforum-bounces%2Bnkhouri>
=cfl.rr.com <http://cfl.rr.com/> @mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
<http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/> ] On Behalf Of Jo Ann Kelty
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 1:25 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan

 

The one option that you did not mention was a Loan Modification.  This can
reduce your interest rate thereby reducing your monthly payment so that you
can afford to stay in your home.  In some cases but not all the principal
amount can also be reducuded.. If you would like more information regarding
if you can qualify please contact me.  

 

Jo Ann Kelty 

joannkelty8 at gmail.com

 

407-610-0736  

407-756-6371  cell

On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:

Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan


March 14, 2009
Your Money
By RON LIEBER
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/l/ron_lieber/ind
ex.html?inline=nyt-per)

If you're among the millions of people who will not qualify for the
Obama administration's program to help troubled homeowners, you're
probably wondering what you're supposed to do now.

Perhaps you no longer have enough income to pay your loans
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
).
Or you can afford the payments but don't qualify for refinancing under
the new plan because the value of your home is too far below the balance
of the loan. If you're far enough underwater, you're probably
questioning the wisdom of writing a monthly check on a place that may
take 10 or 15 years to get back to the value it had two or three years
ago. It isn't easy to come up with the answer, and if you have moral
misgivings about not making good on your mortgage
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/mortgages/index.html?inline=nyt-
classifier),
a religious officiant may offer as much useful guidance as a financial
planner
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/planning/financial-planners/index.html
?inline=nyt-classifier).

In an economic environment like this one, however, the consequences of
giving up on your mortgage may not be as painful as they were a few
years ago. Yes, it's almost always preferable to negotiate a better deal
on your existing mortgage than to walk away. But if you can't work
things out with your lender, you probably won't be sued. You shouldn't
receive a major tax bill either. And the damage to your credit will not
be permanent or insurmountable.

Let's look at these last three in order.

YOUR LENDER First off, let's define what we mean by "giving up" on your
current mortgage. It may mean trying for a short sale
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/s/short_sellin
g/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier),
where the lender allows you to sell your home for less than the mortgage
amount. You may also hand over the deed to the home in exchange for the
lender agreeing not to start foreclosure proceedings (a "deed in lieu"
in industry terms). Then, there's foreclosure itself, and the
possibility that bankruptcy judges may soon have the power to adjust the
terms of primary mortgages.

That said, just because you're ineligible under the Obama plan doesn't
mean that your lender or servicer won't ultimately adjust your mortgage
anyhow. Collectively, there are enough people in trouble or under water
on their loans that they have plenty of leverage if they're willing to
play chicken with their lender and threaten to stop paying.

The problem is, the lender can play chicken, too, by threatening to come
after you for the balance of any money you owe - whether it's the
difference between what you sell the property for yourself and the
remaining mortgage, or the loan amount left over after the lender sells
your property in foreclosure.

The lender may not follow through, though. "What our membership is
telling us is that it can be cost-prohibitive to chase down a borrower
who is already in financial distress," said John Mechem, a spokesman for
the Mortgage Bankers Association. "You can't squeeze blood from a
stone." They may, however, still come after people with high incomes who
walk away from jumbo loans that are way under water or loans on
investment
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/investments/index.html?inline=nyt-clas
sifier)
properties.

Some states have laws that may specifically prohibit lenders from
pursuing borrowers for the balance of many mortgage loans after
foreclosure, though the particulars vary. Arizona and California are
among these states, according to Steven Bender, a professor at the
University of Oregon
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/u/univers
ity_of_oregon/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
School of Law. It's best to talk to a lawyer to determine your state's
rules.

In fact, if you want to be sure your lender (or a collection agency that
it may sell your loan to) won't chase you down, it's a good idea to have
a lawyer involved with any short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure
itself. "You must get the bank to agree in writing that any deficiency
is waived," said Chip Parker, a lawyer specializing in foreclosure with
Parker & DuFresne in Jacksonville, Fla.

The biggest challenge here may simply be finding someone at the bank to
help. Having a second mortgage will also complicate matters.

YOUR TAXES You also need to consider the taxman. Often, forgiven debts
are taxable as income. Recent legislative changes, however, eliminate
the federal tax burden through 2012 on most primary residence debt that
a lender has reduced through loan restructuring or forgiven during
foreclosure.

Mark Luscombe, principal analyst for CCH, a tax information service,
said that people who sell their home through a short sale or give up the
deed in lieu of foreclosure can also qualify for tax relief if they use
a special tax form, 1099-C, that reflects the amount of debt that the
lender has forgiven.

People who live in states with their own income taxes may avoid a big
bill as well. Some states, like Arizona and California, have introduced
or passed legislation that echoes the federal laws, according to the
National Conference of State Legislatures. Many others tend to mimic
most or all federal income tax laws as a general rule, according to CCH.
Check with an accountant in your state to be sure.

YOUR CREDIT A short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure itself will almost
certainly damage your credit report and score, and the black mark will
last for up to seven years. But the amount of damage it does will depend
on how much other credit trouble you've gotten yourself into with other
lenders.

If you're giving up the home you own, you'll probably need to rent soon
afterward. Will landlords turn you away once they check your credit and
discover your troubled mortgage? "If it's the only thing marring their
credit, it's probably not a big issue," said Clay Powell, the director
of the Rental Property Owners Association of Michigan, who added that
good tenants could be scarce in economic environments like this one.

In fact, Todd J. Zywicki, a law professor at George Mason University,
predicted that FICO may have to adjust its credit scores
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-scores/index.html?inline
=nyt-classifier)
to lessen the impact of a foreclosure or similar incident. "It just
seems obvious that a foreclosure in 2008 or 2009 doesn't have as much
information value as a foreclosure five years ago," he said. "To the
extent that foreclosure doesn't predict future behavior as much as it
did in the past, you'd expect that the FICO algorithm would change to
adjust for that."

Craig Watts, a spokesman for FICO, said that was an interesting idea.
"We try not to get involved too much in psychobabble around what is and
isn't predictive," he said. "If the numbers show that foreclosure is
less predictive, then we'll take it into account in future
redevelopments of the formula." That would take a minimum of two to
three years, though.

Some lenders aren't waiting that long to initiate their own foreclosure
destigmatization programs. The Golden 1, one of the nation's largest
credit unions, now has a mortgage repair loan for people who have lost a
home to foreclosure but want to buy a new one.

It's hard to imagine that there won't be a parade of insurance
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/insurance/index.html?inline=nyt-classi
fier)
companies, credit card
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-and-debit-cards/index.ht
ml?inline=nyt-classifier)
issuers and mortgage lenders in Golden 1's wake, even though Fannie Mae
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/fannie_mae/index.html
?inline=nyt-org)
and Freddie Mac
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/freddie_mac/index.htm
l?inline=nyt-org)
may be unwilling to guarantee the mortgages of such borrowers for
several years. In fact, Aaron Bresko, the vice president of lending for
BECU, another large credit union based in Washington State, is putting
together a panel called "How to Lend to the Newly Credit Impaired" for a
conference later this year.

"Good people have bad things happen to them, so how do you find those
people and reach out to them?" he said. "As the year progresses, it's
going to be an emerging market."

How are you handling your mortgage problems?
Write to rlieber at nytimes.com.

_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

 


_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

 





 





  _____  



 
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From sterbert at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 16 15:13:34 2009
From: sterbert at yahoo.com (Steven Herbert)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 12:13:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [5-DayForum] Pricing
In-Reply-To: <5D34F67E38744964BC99793A1AC5EF1E@NSKHome>
Message-ID: <209103.49881.qm@web30204.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


I'm located in Tacoma, WA.


--- Naji <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com> wrote:

> Where are you located?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
>
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
> ys.com] On Behalf Of Steven Herbert
> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 12:59 PM
> To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Pricing
> 
> 
> I just had my 5-day sale this weekend. Nobody put
> down
> a bid!!
> 
> My take is that they didn't believe I would sell the
> house for less and they knew it was worth more ... a
> lot lot more than the "teaser price." 
> 
> And on arrival, they're not prepared for the
> full-figured amount. The papers I handed to them say
> they need to sign the agreement on Monday! 
> 
> The price shock and the Monday aspect was too much. 
> If I had to do this again ... I would price
> differently. Banks aren't lending their money out.
> People are afraid to spend. Investors that called me
> didn't want to waste their time ... they don't want
> to
> pay for what a house is worth--they want a Steal!
> 
> Steven
> 
> --- Sean Folkson <sean at folkson.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------
> Bill, 
> 
> just saw your post where you say:
> 
> "
> If you buy Sean's story, why is he using the
> 5-DayMethod again? "The story is believable and
> verifiable, you can search thereal estate records to
> see the final sale of the property, and I stillhave
> names and numbers (and E-mail addresses) from
> bidders
> whoattended.  I guess you could say I'm not using
> the
> 5-Day Methodagain.  I'm just using a substantial
> part
> of the ideas in thebook.  Since pricing is such an
> important part, if I'm followingeverything but the
> pricing (and I am), I'll let others decide if
> it'saccurate to say I'm using the method
> again.However
> anybody views it, I think that, in my particular
> circumstance, Iwill give myself the best chance of
> selling this house for the highest $amount using ALL
> of Bill's advice with the single exception of how
> Iadvertise the price, and the fact that I will not
> take any bids if noneof them meet my advertised
> price.Whether anybody feels I'm using the method or
> not for this next sale issemantics.  I would say I
> am,
> but with different pricing....Billmight feel I'm not
> because pricing is so critical, that once I do my
> ownthing there, it's no longer his method.  I
> totally
> understand thatpoint of view.I loved the process,
> just
> didn't attract people willing to bid what wewanted. 
> Bill may be right.  Maybe people knew we had a
> numberin mind we just wouldn't sell at.  But, I did
> believe we'd sell tothe high bidder, because I
> believed our high bidder would get into themid $300K
> range.  We had every intention of selling right on
> thespot.I was floored when the bidding stopped cold
> at
> $326,500.  But, youcan't get blood from a stone. 
> The
> people that were bidding couldn'tgo
> higher.Ultimately,
> we listed with a realtor who came to our open house,
> and whoheard about it from his client (who was the
> 2nd
> highest bidder).  Welisted at $389K, and as the
> market
> continued to drop through Sept, wedropped our
> listing
> price to the $358K range, and had multiple
> offers.Again, we just didn't have the right budgets
> involved in the biddingprocess.  >
> _______________________________________________
> > 5-DayForum mailing list
> > 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> >
>
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> > 
> 
> 
> 
>       
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> 



      

From bill at effros.com  Mon Mar 16 15:18:12 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 15:18:12 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
In-Reply-To: <82B5E5D7579048D49980B643199686F7@NSKHome>
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	<82B5E5D7579048D49980B643199686F7@NSKHome>
Message-ID: <49BEA5F4.6040301@effros.com>

Oh good!

I had it right.

At some point you realize you're not really sure.

B.

Thanks.

Naji wrote:
>
> Definitions
>
> *Principal*
>
> /adjective/
>
> *             first or highest in rank, importance, value, etc.; 
> chief; foremost.
>
> /noun/
>
> *             a chief or head of an organization
>
> *             something of primary importance
>
> *             /Law./ a person who authorizes another (an agent) to 
> represent him or her
>
> *             /Finance./ a capital sum, the main amount of a loan or 
> investment (as distinguished from interest or profit)
>
> *Principle* /noun/
>
> *             a fundamental assumption. /The principles of physics 
> dictate that you cannot travel faster than the speed of light./
>
> *             a generally acceptable rule of action or behaviour. 
> /moral principles/
>
>  
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* 
> 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] 
> *On Behalf Of *Bill Effros
> *Sent:* Monday, March 16, 2009 2:54 PM
> *To:* How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
>
>  
>
> Jo Ann,
>
> Naji's point, and my point is that many homes in many places are not 
> worth the current value of the principal and probably will never ever 
> be worth the value of the principal.
>
> A case in point would be a retirement community in Fort Meyers, Fla. 
> where 64 of the 65 homes have been foreclosed.  That 65th home owner 
> should get out of there as quickly as possible, and before paying any 
> more money on the mortgage.  None of those homes will ever be lived in 
> again.
>
> While this may seem like an extreme example, there are, at the least, 
> 100,000s of thousands of homes that fall into this category at this 
> time.  100% of their current value will be lost -- the only question 
> is who will take the hit.  Let the banks and the taxpayers take the 
> rest of the hit.  The home buyer has been hurt enough already, don't 
> make it worse.
>
> This is not to say payment reduction may not be good for some people.
>
> But many on this list would be much better off immediately selling 
> their homes either to the high bidder in a 5-Day Sale, or to their 
> banks if the bank will not accept the current value of the home.
>
> Bill Effros
> Author
>
> PS -- Is it principal or principle...the principal is your pal...??
>
>
>
> Jo Ann Kelty wrote:
>
> Bill
>
>  
>
> I would agree if the homeowner is trying to negotiate with the banks 
> directly.. because they do not know all the laws involved that can be 
> used.  We nornally get the Modification for a period of 5 years .. 
> That give the homeowner the opportunity to get out from under any 
> financial dificulties that they may be in at this time and if we are 
> lucky the market may ( or may not ) go up in value.... but it will 
> give them some breathing room ..
>
>  
>
> If they negotiate with a bank ... the bank will normally only give 
> them a 6 month reprive... and almost 50% will again be behind in thier 
> payments at the end of that period because they are back to the 
> original payment.
>
>  
>
> Jo Ann
>
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com 
> <mailto:joannkelty8 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Naji
>
>  
>
> I work for Attorneys that have a 98% success rate in getting both 
> reduced interest rates and reduction of the principal.. They negotiate 
> with the banks.. If you try to do it directly with the bank you will 
> not have the same success..   If we can not get a Modification the 
> client recieves a 100% refund...  Our mission is to help those that 
> want to stay in thier homes..... and we have helped hundreds of 
> homeowners...
>
>  
>
> Jo Ann
>
> 2009/3/16 Naji <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com <mailto:nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>>
>
>      
>
>     Loan modifications without an *actual principal reduction to
>     current market valuation* only benefits the banks, period! You're
>     better off walking away or doing a short sale than prolonging the
>     inevitable.
>
>      
>
>     BTW, Loan Modification programs are being pushed (mostly) by the
>     same banks and mortgage brokers that were giving away billions of
>     dollars to unqualified buyers during the peak... It's amazing that
>     the same crooks that were telling a person making 40K a year they
>     can afford a 500K home with 0 down are the same ones getting into
>     the loan modification business.
>
>      
>
>     -Naji
>
>      
>
>      
>
>     ---------- >From my previous posting ----------
>
>      
>
>     Anyone that purchased a home or refinanced (and tapped their
>     equity) in the last 5 years or so in many parts of the country (if
>     not all of the country) is upside down on their mortgage, i.e
>     house worth less than what's owed on it, or are falling behind on
>     payments:
>
>      
>
>     So what are the options if you're in that situation:
>
>      
>
>              1. Reinstatement - Determine the amount owed necessary to
>                 bring loan current.
>
>                     o This just prolongs the inevitable... If the
>                       house is worth much less, especially in hard hit
>                       areas, expect to stay put for many many years
>                       before you break even. So, you may find yourself
>                       in the same situation a few month or years from now
>
>              2. Forbearance - Set up a payment plan to bring the loan
>                 current.
>
>                     o Another option that's not really going to
>                       work... If someone cannot pay now, how will he
>                       be able to become current with more payments.
>
>              3. Modification - Adjust the loan terms (interest rate,
>                 payment and length).
>
>                     o Loan modification only benefits the banks at
>                       this point... They just tack it on to the back
>                       end of the mortgage.
>                     o This will only work if banks actually reduce the
>                       principal to match current value. Unfortunately,
>                       less than 1% of loan modifications result in
>                       principal reductions.
>
>              4. Deed-in-lieu - Give the property back to the lender.
>
>                     o Works if the lender agrees to it and there
>                       aren't 2^nd , 3^rd , etc liens
>
>              5. Walk Away - Leave the property in the most beneficial
>                 way possible.
>
>                     o Stay as long as you can in the home -- You can
>                       stay at least 8 months before it goes to the
>                       bank and in states like Florida, expect to stay
>                       almost 2 years.
>                     o Don't pay the mortgage, but instead save it all
>                       so you can rebuild your life
>                     o When it's judgment time, find a place to rent
>                       and plan on renting for a while
>                     o You could also offload your property to someone
>                       as well
>
>              6. Short Sale - List the property for less than the
>                 amount owed.
>
>                     o You can negotiate a short sale with your bank...
>                       You can do it yourself or hire someone to do it
>                       on you behalf. It's really not that difficult,
>                       all it takes is communicating with your lender
>                     o Many banks are getting easier to work with while
>                       others are still in dreamville
>                     o Expect this to take months due to the bank
>                       backlogs. Also, some banks want to see the
>                       property on the market for at least 90 days
>                       before agreeing to anything. Then they do their
>                       own BPO (which is still out of whack) and wait
>                       like everyone else thinking they can get all
>                       their money back...
>
>              7. Refinance - Obtain a new loan to replace the current
>                 loan(s).
>
>                     o Will not work unless you're going to bring a big
>                       chunk of change to the table.
>
>              8. Excess Proceeds- Collecting excess money from the
>                 auction/sale of the property.
>
>                     o Wait until the property goes to the auction
>                       block and if there's any money left after the
>                       1^st Lien holder is paid, you may get something
>                       back... Doubtful in many cases since all the
>                       homes going back are worth less than the mortgage
>
>              9. Postponements - Delay the auction/sale date of the
>                 property.
>
>                     o Delay the public auction of the property while
>                       you try to figure something out
>                     o This will only buy you time and you'll still
>                       have to face the music later
>
>             10. Stay In Your Home - Continue living in your current home.
>
>                     o If you can afford the payments and are willing
>                       to stick it out for 10 years or more, then just
>                       stay put
>
>      
>
>     -Naji
>
>      
>
>      
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>     *From:* 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com
>     <http://cfl.rr.com/>@mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>     <http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/>
>     [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri
>     <mailto:5-dayforum-bounces%2Bnkhouri>=cfl.rr.com
>     <http://cfl.rr.com/>@mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>     <http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/>] *On Behalf Of *Jo
>     Ann Kelty
>     *Sent:* Monday, March 16, 2009 1:25 PM
>     *To:* How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
>     *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your
>     Home Loan
>
>      
>
>     The one option that you did not mention was a Loan Modification. 
>     This can reduce your interest rate thereby reducing your monthly
>     payment so that you can afford to stay in your home.  In some
>     cases but not all the principal amount can also be reducuded.. If
>     you would like more information regarding if you can qualify
>     please contact me. 
>
>      
>
>     Jo Ann Kelty
>
>     joannkelty8 at gmail.com <mailto:joannkelty8 at gmail.com>
>
>      
>
>     407-610-0736 
>
>     407-756-6371  cell
>
>     On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com
>     <mailto:bill at effros.com>> wrote:
>
>     Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
>
>
>     March 14, 2009
>     Your Money
>     By RON LIEBER
>     (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/l/ron_lieber/index.html?inline=nyt-per)
>
>     If you're among the millions of people who will not qualify for the
>     Obama administration's program to help troubled homeowners, you're
>     probably wondering what you're supposed to do now.
>
>     Perhaps you no longer have enough income to pay your loans
>     (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier).
>     Or you can afford the payments but don't qualify for refinancing under
>     the new plan because the value of your home is too far below the
>     balance
>     of the loan. If you're far enough underwater, you're probably
>     questioning the wisdom of writing a monthly check on a place that may
>     take 10 or 15 years to get back to the value it had two or three years
>     ago. It isn't easy to come up with the answer, and if you have moral
>     misgivings about not making good on your mortgage
>     (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/mortgages/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier),
>     a religious officiant may offer as much useful guidance as a financial
>     planner
>     (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/planning/financial-planners/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier).
>
>     In an economic environment like this one, however, the consequences of
>     giving up on your mortgage may not be as painful as they were a few
>     years ago. Yes, it's almost always preferable to negotiate a
>     better deal
>     on your existing mortgage than to walk away. But if you can't work
>     things out with your lender, you probably won't be sued. You shouldn't
>     receive a major tax bill either. And the damage to your credit
>     will not
>     be permanent or insurmountable.
>
>     Let's look at these last three in order.
>
>     YOUR LENDER First off, let's define what we mean by "giving up" on
>     your
>     current mortgage. It may mean trying for a short sale
>     (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/s/short_selling/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier),
>     where the lender allows you to sell your home for less than the
>     mortgage
>     amount. You may also hand over the deed to the home in exchange
>     for the
>     lender agreeing not to start foreclosure proceedings (a "deed in lieu"
>     in industry terms). Then, there's foreclosure itself, and the
>     possibility that bankruptcy judges may soon have the power to
>     adjust the
>     terms of primary mortgages.
>
>     That said, just because you're ineligible under the Obama plan doesn't
>     mean that your lender or servicer won't ultimately adjust your
>     mortgage
>     anyhow. Collectively, there are enough people in trouble or under
>     water
>     on their loans that they have plenty of leverage if they're willing to
>     play chicken with their lender and threaten to stop paying.
>
>     The problem is, the lender can play chicken, too, by threatening
>     to come
>     after you for the balance of any money you owe --- whether it's the
>     difference between what you sell the property for yourself and the
>     remaining mortgage, or the loan amount left over after the lender
>     sells
>     your property in foreclosure.
>
>     The lender may not follow through, though. "What our membership is
>     telling us is that it can be cost-prohibitive to chase down a borrower
>     who is already in financial distress," said John Mechem, a
>     spokesman for
>     the Mortgage Bankers Association. "You can't squeeze blood from a
>     stone." They may, however, still come after people with high
>     incomes who
>     walk away from jumbo loans that are way under water or loans on
>     investment
>     (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/investments/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
>     properties.
>
>     Some states have laws that may specifically prohibit lenders from
>     pursuing borrowers for the balance of many mortgage loans after
>     foreclosure, though the particulars vary. Arizona and California are
>     among these states, according to Steven Bender, a professor at the
>     University of Oregon
>     (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/u/university_of_oregon/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
>     School of Law. It's best to talk to a lawyer to determine your state's
>     rules.
>
>     In fact, if you want to be sure your lender (or a collection
>     agency that
>     it may sell your loan to) won't chase you down, it's a good idea
>     to have
>     a lawyer involved with any short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure
>     itself. "You must get the bank to agree in writing that any deficiency
>     is waived," said Chip Parker, a lawyer specializing in foreclosure
>     with
>     Parker & DuFresne in Jacksonville, Fla.
>
>     The biggest challenge here may simply be finding someone at the
>     bank to
>     help. Having a second mortgage will also complicate matters.
>
>     YOUR TAXES You also need to consider the taxman. Often, forgiven debts
>     are taxable as income. Recent legislative changes, however, eliminate
>     the federal tax burden through 2012 on most primary residence debt
>     that
>     a lender has reduced through loan restructuring or forgiven during
>     foreclosure.
>
>     Mark Luscombe, principal analyst for CCH, a tax information service,
>     said that people who sell their home through a short sale or give
>     up the
>     deed in lieu of foreclosure can also qualify for tax relief if
>     they use
>     a special tax form, 1099-C, that reflects the amount of debt that the
>     lender has forgiven.
>
>     People who live in states with their own income taxes may avoid a big
>     bill as well. Some states, like Arizona and California, have
>     introduced
>     or passed legislation that echoes the federal laws, according to the
>     National Conference of State Legislatures. Many others tend to mimic
>     most or all federal income tax laws as a general rule, according
>     to CCH.
>     Check with an accountant in your state to be sure.
>
>     YOUR CREDIT A short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure itself will
>     almost
>     certainly damage your credit report and score, and the black mark will
>     last for up to seven years. But the amount of damage it does will
>     depend
>     on how much other credit trouble you've gotten yourself into with
>     other
>     lenders.
>
>     If you're giving up the home you own, you'll probably need to rent
>     soon
>     afterward. Will landlords turn you away once they check your
>     credit and
>     discover your troubled mortgage? "If it's the only thing marring their
>     credit, it's probably not a big issue," said Clay Powell, the director
>     of the Rental Property Owners Association of Michigan, who added that
>     good tenants could be scarce in economic environments like this one.
>
>     In fact, Todd J. Zywicki, a law professor at George Mason University,
>     predicted that FICO may have to adjust its credit scores
>     (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-scores/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
>     to lessen the impact of a foreclosure or similar incident. "It just
>     seems obvious that a foreclosure in 2008 or 2009 doesn't have as much
>     information value as a foreclosure five years ago," he said. "To the
>     extent that foreclosure doesn't predict future behavior as much as it
>     did in the past, you'd expect that the FICO algorithm would change to
>     adjust for that."
>
>     Craig Watts, a spokesman for FICO, said that was an interesting idea.
>     "We try not to get involved too much in psychobabble around what
>     is and
>     isn't predictive," he said. "If the numbers show that foreclosure is
>     less predictive, then we'll take it into account in future
>     redevelopments of the formula." That would take a minimum of two to
>     three years, though.
>
>     Some lenders aren't waiting that long to initiate their own
>     foreclosure
>     destigmatization programs. The Golden 1, one of the nation's largest
>     credit unions, now has a mortgage repair loan for people who have
>     lost a
>     home to foreclosure but want to buy a new one.
>
>     It's hard to imagine that there won't be a parade of insurance
>     (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/insurance/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
>     companies, credit card
>     (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-and-debit-cards/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
>     issuers and mortgage lenders in Golden 1's wake, even though
>     Fannie Mae
>     (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/fannie_mae/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
>     and Freddie Mac
>     (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/freddie_mac/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
>     may be unwilling to guarantee the mortgages of such borrowers for
>     several years. In fact, Aaron Bresko, the vice president of
>     lending for
>     BECU, another large credit union based in Washington State, is putting
>     together a panel called "How to Lend to the Newly Credit Impaired"
>     for a
>     conference later this year.
>
>     "Good people have bad things happen to them, so how do you find those
>     people and reach out to them?" he said. "As the year progresses, it's
>     going to be an emerging market."
>
>     How are you handling your mortgage problems?
>     Write to rlieber at nytimes.com <mailto:rlieber at nytimes.com>.
>
>     _______________________________________________
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>
>      
>
>
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>     5-DayForum mailing list
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>
>  
>
>
>
>  
>
>
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>
>
>  
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From lili at lilioday.com  Mon Mar 16 16:15:28 2009
From: lili at lilioday.com (O'Day, Lili)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:15:28 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
In-Reply-To: <82B5E5D7579048D49980B643199686F7@NSKHome>
Message-ID: <E8687DEB9C959E488879896C3F6D001121699380@winxbeus12.exchange.xchg>

I just want to say that one other possibility for those who think they may have an unfair bank loan is to have a forensic loan audit done. (google it!)  One of my clients just had it done on 3 of her Washington Mutual loans . Every one of them had serious violations, which would have meant she would have paid  hundred of thousands of dollars too much to the bank..... (all considered predatory loans)  Now the bank is on the hot seat,   She's been offered some really sweet terms on one of the loans. already.  ..2.9% +   .  An audit that shows serious violations puts the borrower in a position to negotiate from a position of strength.

Lili O'Day

________________________________
From: 5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Naji
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:03 PM
To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan

Definitions
Principal
adjective
[PicExportError]             first or highest in rank, importance, value, etc.; chief; foremost.
noun
[PicExportError]             a chief or head of an organization
[PicExportError]             something of primary importance
[PicExportError]             Law. a person who authorizes another (an agent) to represent him or her
[PicExportError]             Finance. a capital sum, the main amount of a loan or investment (as distinguished from interest or profit)
Principle noun
[PicExportError]             a fundamental assumption. The principles of physics dictate that you cannot travel faster than the speed of light.
[PicExportError]             a generally acceptable rule of action or behaviour. moral principles


________________________________
From: 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:54 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan

Jo Ann,

Naji's point, and my point is that many homes in many places are not worth the current value of the principal and probably will never ever be worth the value of the principal.

A case in point would be a retirement community in Fort Meyers, Fla. where 64 of the 65 homes have been foreclosed.  That 65th home owner should get out of there as quickly as possible, and before paying any more money on the mortgage.  None of those homes will ever be lived in again.

While this may seem like an extreme example, there are, at the least, 100,000s of thousands of homes that fall into this category at this time.  100% of their current value will be lost -- the only question is who will take the hit.  Let the banks and the taxpayers take the rest of the hit.  The home buyer has been hurt enough already, don't make it worse.

This is not to say payment reduction may not be good for some people.

But many on this list would be much better off immediately selling their homes either to the high bidder in a 5-Day Sale, or to their banks if the bank will not accept the current value of the home.

Bill Effros
Author

PS -- Is it principal or principle...the principal is your pal...??



Jo Ann Kelty wrote:
Bill

I would agree if the homeowner is trying to negotiate with the banks directly.. because they do not know all the laws involved that can be used.  We nornally get the Modification for a period of 5 years .. That give the homeowner the opportunity to get out from under any financial dificulties that they may be in at this time and if we are lucky the market may ( or may not ) go up in value.... but it will give them some breathing room ..

If they negotiate with a bank ... the bank will normally only give them a 6 month reprive... and almost 50% will again be behind in thier payments at the end of that period because they are back to the original payment.

Jo Ann
On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com<mailto:joannkelty8 at gmail.com>> wrote:
Naji

I work for Attorneys that have a 98% success rate in getting both reduced interest rates and reduction of the principal.. They negotiate with the banks.. If you try to do it directly with the bank you will not have the same success..   If we can not get a Modification the client recieves a 100% refund...  Our mission is to help those that want to stay in thier homes..... and we have helped hundreds of homeowners...

Jo Ann
2009/3/16 Naji <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com<mailto:nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>>


Loan modifications without an actual principal reduction to current market valuation only benefits the banks, period! You're better off walking away or doing a short sale than prolonging the inevitable.



BTW, Loan Modification programs are being pushed (mostly) by the same banks and mortgage brokers that were giving away billions of dollars to unqualified buyers during the peak... It's amazing that the same crooks that were telling a person making 40K a year they can afford a 500K home with 0 down are the same ones getting into the loan modification business.



-Naji





---------- >From my previous posting ----------



Anyone that purchased a home or refinanced (and tapped their equity) in the last 5 years or so in many parts of the country (if not all of the country) is upside down on their mortgage, i.e house worth less than what's owed on it, or are falling behind on payments:



So what are the options if you're in that situation:



    *   Reinstatement - Determine the amount owed necessary to bring loan current.

       *   This just prolongs the inevitable... If the house is worth much less, especially in hard hit areas, expect to stay put for many many years before you break even. So, you may find yourself in the same situation a few month or years from now

    *   Forbearance - Set up a payment plan to bring the loan current.

       *   Another option that's not really going to work... If someone cannot pay now, how will he be able to become current with more payments.

    *   Modification - Adjust the loan terms (interest rate, payment and length).

       *   Loan modification only benefits the banks at this point... They just tack it on to the back end of the mortgage.
       *   This will only work if banks actually reduce the principal to match current value. Unfortunately, less than 1% of loan modifications result in principal reductions.

    *   Deed-in-lieu - Give the property back to the lender.

       *   Works if the lender agrees to it and there aren't 2nd, 3rd, etc liens

    *   Walk Away - Leave the property in the most beneficial way possible.

       *   Stay as long as you can in the home - You can stay at least 8 months before it goes to the bank and in states like Florida, expect to stay almost 2 years.
       *   Don't pay the mortgage, but instead save it all so you can rebuild your life
       *   When it's judgment time, find a place to rent and plan on renting for a while
       *   You could also offload your property to someone as well

    *   Short Sale - List the property for less than the amount owed.

       *   You can negotiate a short sale with your bank... You can do it yourself or hire someone to do it on you behalf. It's really not that difficult, all it takes is communicating with your lender
       *   Many banks are getting easier to work with while others are still in dreamville
       *   Expect this to take months due to the bank backlogs. Also, some banks want to see the property on the market for at least 90 days before agreeing to anything. Then they do their own BPO (which is still out of whack) and wait like everyone else thinking they can get all their money back...

    *   Refinance - Obtain a new loan to replace the current loan(s).

       *   Will not work unless you're going to bring a big chunk of change to the table.

    *   Excess Proceeds- Collecting excess money from the auction/sale of the property.

       *   Wait until the property goes to the auction block and if there's any money left after the 1st Lien holder is paid, you may get something back... Doubtful in many cases since all the homes going back are worth less than the mortgage

    *   Postponements - Delay the auction/sale date of the property.

       *   Delay the public auction of the property while you try to figure something out
       *   This will only buy you time and you'll still have to face the music later

    *   Stay In Your Home - Continue living in your current home.

       *   If you can afford the payments and are willing to stick it out for 10 years or more, then just stay put



-Naji





________________________________

From: 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com<http://cfl.rr.com/>@mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com<http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/> [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri<mailto:5-dayforum-bounces%2Bnkhouri>=cfl.rr.com<http://cfl.rr.com/>@mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com<http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/>] On Behalf Of Jo Ann Kelty
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 1:25 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan



The one option that you did not mention was a Loan Modification.  This can reduce your interest rate thereby reducing your monthly payment so that you can afford to stay in your home.  In some cases but not all the principal amount can also be reducuded.. If you would like more information regarding if you can qualify please contact me.



Jo Ann Kelty

joannkelty8 at gmail.com<mailto:joannkelty8 at gmail.com>



407-610-0736

407-756-6371  cell

On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com<mailto:bill at effros.com>> wrote:

Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan


March 14, 2009
Your Money
By RON LIEBER
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/l/ron_lieber/index.html?inline=nyt-per)

If you're among the millions of people who will not qualify for the
Obama administration's program to help troubled homeowners, you're
probably wondering what you're supposed to do now.

Perhaps you no longer have enough income to pay your loans
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier).
Or you can afford the payments but don't qualify for refinancing under
the new plan because the value of your home is too far below the balance
of the loan. If you're far enough underwater, you're probably
questioning the wisdom of writing a monthly check on a place that may
take 10 or 15 years to get back to the value it had two or three years
ago. It isn't easy to come up with the answer, and if you have moral
misgivings about not making good on your mortgage
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/mortgages/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier),
a religious officiant may offer as much useful guidance as a financial
planner
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/planning/financial-planners/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier).

In an economic environment like this one, however, the consequences of
giving up on your mortgage may not be as painful as they were a few
years ago. Yes, it's almost always preferable to negotiate a better deal
on your existing mortgage than to walk away. But if you can't work
things out with your lender, you probably won't be sued. You shouldn't
receive a major tax bill either. And the damage to your credit will not
be permanent or insurmountable.

Let's look at these last three in order.

YOUR LENDER First off, let's define what we mean by "giving up" on your
current mortgage. It may mean trying for a short sale
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/s/short_selling/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier),
where the lender allows you to sell your home for less than the mortgage
amount. You may also hand over the deed to the home in exchange for the
lender agreeing not to start foreclosure proceedings (a "deed in lieu"
in industry terms). Then, there's foreclosure itself, and the
possibility that bankruptcy judges may soon have the power to adjust the
terms of primary mortgages.

That said, just because you're ineligible under the Obama plan doesn't
mean that your lender or servicer won't ultimately adjust your mortgage
anyhow. Collectively, there are enough people in trouble or under water
on their loans that they have plenty of leverage if they're willing to
play chicken with their lender and threaten to stop paying.

The problem is, the lender can play chicken, too, by threatening to come
after you for the balance of any money you owe - whether it's the
difference between what you sell the property for yourself and the
remaining mortgage, or the loan amount left over after the lender sells
your property in foreclosure.

The lender may not follow through, though. "What our membership is
telling us is that it can be cost-prohibitive to chase down a borrower
who is already in financial distress," said John Mechem, a spokesman for
the Mortgage Bankers Association. "You can't squeeze blood from a
stone." They may, however, still come after people with high incomes who
walk away from jumbo loans that are way under water or loans on
investment
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/investments/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
properties.

Some states have laws that may specifically prohibit lenders from
pursuing borrowers for the balance of many mortgage loans after
foreclosure, though the particulars vary. Arizona and California are
among these states, according to Steven Bender, a professor at the
University of Oregon
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/u/university_of_oregon/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
School of Law. It's best to talk to a lawyer to determine your state's
rules.

In fact, if you want to be sure your lender (or a collection agency that
it may sell your loan to) won't chase you down, it's a good idea to have
a lawyer involved with any short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure
itself. "You must get the bank to agree in writing that any deficiency
is waived," said Chip Parker, a lawyer specializing in foreclosure with
Parker & DuFresne in Jacksonville, Fla.

The biggest challenge here may simply be finding someone at the bank to
help. Having a second mortgage will also complicate matters.

YOUR TAXES You also need to consider the taxman. Often, forgiven debts
are taxable as income. Recent legislative changes, however, eliminate
the federal tax burden through 2012 on most primary residence debt that
a lender has reduced through loan restructuring or forgiven during
foreclosure.

Mark Luscombe, principal analyst for CCH, a tax information service,
said that people who sell their home through a short sale or give up the
deed in lieu of foreclosure can also qualify for tax relief if they use
a special tax form, 1099-C, that reflects the amount of debt that the
lender has forgiven.

People who live in states with their own income taxes may avoid a big
bill as well. Some states, like Arizona and California, have introduced
or passed legislation that echoes the federal laws, according to the
National Conference of State Legislatures. Many others tend to mimic
most or all federal income tax laws as a general rule, according to CCH.
Check with an accountant in your state to be sure.

YOUR CREDIT A short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure itself will almost
certainly damage your credit report and score, and the black mark will
last for up to seven years. But the amount of damage it does will depend
on how much other credit trouble you've gotten yourself into with other
lenders.

If you're giving up the home you own, you'll probably need to rent soon
afterward. Will landlords turn you away once they check your credit and
discover your troubled mortgage? "If it's the only thing marring their
credit, it's probably not a big issue," said Clay Powell, the director
of the Rental Property Owners Association of Michigan, who added that
good tenants could be scarce in economic environments like this one.

In fact, Todd J. Zywicki, a law professor at George Mason University,
predicted that FICO may have to adjust its credit scores
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-scores/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
to lessen the impact of a foreclosure or similar incident. "It just
seems obvious that a foreclosure in 2008 or 2009 doesn't have as much
information value as a foreclosure five years ago," he said. "To the
extent that foreclosure doesn't predict future behavior as much as it
did in the past, you'd expect that the FICO algorithm would change to
adjust for that."

Craig Watts, a spokesman for FICO, said that was an interesting idea.
"We try not to get involved too much in psychobabble around what is and
isn't predictive," he said. "If the numbers show that foreclosure is
less predictive, then we'll take it into account in future
redevelopments of the formula." That would take a minimum of two to
three years, though.

Some lenders aren't waiting that long to initiate their own foreclosure
destigmatization programs. The Golden 1, one of the nation's largest
credit unions, now has a mortgage repair loan for people who have lost a
home to foreclosure but want to buy a new one.

It's hard to imagine that there won't be a parade of insurance
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/insurance/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
companies, credit card
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-and-debit-cards/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
issuers and mortgage lenders in Golden 1's wake, even though Fannie Mae
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/fannie_mae/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
and Freddie Mac
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/freddie_mac/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
may be unwilling to guarantee the mortgages of such borrowers for
several years. In fact, Aaron Bresko, the vice president of lending for
BECU, another large credit union based in Washington State, is putting
together a panel called "How to Lend to the Newly Credit Impaired" for a
conference later this year.

"Good people have bad things happen to them, so how do you find those
people and reach out to them?" he said. "As the year progresses, it's
going to be an emerging market."

How are you handling your mortgage problems?
Write to rlieber at nytimes.com<mailto:rlieber at nytimes.com>.

_______________________________________________
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From sterbert at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 16 16:23:40 2009
From: sterbert at yahoo.com (Steven Herbert)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 13:23:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
In-Reply-To: <E8687DEB9C959E488879896C3F6D001121699380@winxbeus12.exchange.xchg>
Message-ID: <374767.30876.qm@web30207.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


I've toyed with the idea of walking away (or
threatening to at least). I bought at $257K and owe
$248K after 3.5 yrs. I'm not sure if I'm underwater or
not (probably even w/sealevel).

I haven't missed payments, I'm not struggling to make
them. But we're a military family and would be moving
this October. Renting won't pay near the $1800
mortgage and I'll be losing my income when I move.
Would a bank care about my situation considering
October is a ways off?

Steven


--- "O'Day, Lili" <lili at lilioday.com> wrote:

> I just want to say that one other possibility for
> those who think they may have an unfair bank loan is
> to have a forensic loan audit done. (google it!) 
> One of my clients just had it done on 3 of her
> Washington Mutual loans . Every one of them had
> serious violations, which would have meant she would
> have paid  hundred of thousands of dollars too much
> to the bank..... (all considered predatory loans) 
> Now the bank is on the hot seat,   She's been
> offered some really sweet terms on one of the loans.
> already.  ..2.9% +   .  An audit that shows serious
> violations puts the borrower in a position to
> negotiate from a position of strength.
> 
> Lili O'Day
> 
> ________________________________
> From:
>
5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> On Behalf Of Naji
> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:03 PM
> To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
> Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away
> From Your Home Loan
> 
> Definitions
> Principal
> adjective
> [PicExportError]             first or highest in
> rank, importance, value, etc.; chief; foremost.
> noun
> [PicExportError]             a chief or head of an
> organization
> [PicExportError]             something of primary
> importance
> [PicExportError]             Law. a person who
> authorizes another (an agent) to represent him or
> her
> [PicExportError]             Finance. a capital sum,
> the main amount of a loan or investment (as
> distinguished from interest or profit)
> Principle noun
> [PicExportError]             a fundamental
> assumption. The principles of physics dictate that
> you cannot travel faster than the speed of light.
> [PicExportError]             a generally acceptable
> rule of action or behaviour. moral principles
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From:
>
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> On Behalf Of Bill Effros
> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:54 PM
> To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away
> From Your Home Loan
> 
> Jo Ann,
> 
> Naji's point, and my point is that many homes in
> many places are not worth the current value of the
> principal and probably will never ever be worth the
> value of the principal.
> 
> A case in point would be a retirement community in
> Fort Meyers, Fla. where 64 of the 65 homes have been
> foreclosed.  That 65th home owner should get out of
> there as quickly as possible, and before paying any
> more money on the mortgage.  None of those homes
> will ever be lived in again.
> 
> While this may seem like an extreme example, there
> are, at the least, 100,000s of thousands of homes
> that fall into this category at this time.  100% of
> their current value will be lost -- the only
> question is who will take the hit.  Let the banks
> and the taxpayers take the rest of the hit.  The
> home buyer has been hurt enough already, don't make
> it worse.
> 
> This is not to say payment reduction may not be good
> for some people.
> 
> But many on this list would be much better off
> immediately selling their homes either to the high
> bidder in a 5-Day Sale, or to their banks if the
> bank will not accept the current value of the home.
> 
> Bill Effros
> Author
> 
> PS -- Is it principal or principle...the principal
> is your pal...??
> 
> 
> 
> Jo Ann Kelty wrote:
> Bill
> 
> I would agree if the homeowner is trying to
> negotiate with the banks directly.. because they do
> not know all the laws involved that can be used.  We
> nornally get the Modification for a period of 5
> years .. That give the homeowner the opportunity to
> get out from under any financial dificulties that
> they may be in at this time and if we are lucky the
> market may ( or may not ) go up in value.... but it
> will give them some breathing room ..
> 
> If they negotiate with a bank ... the bank will
> normally only give them a 6 month reprive... and
> almost 50% will again be behind in thier payments at
> the end of that period because they are back to the
> original payment.
> 
> Jo Ann
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Jo Ann Kelty
>
<joannkelty8 at gmail.com<mailto:joannkelty8 at gmail.com>>
> wrote:
> Naji
> 
> I work for Attorneys that have a 98% success rate in
> getting both reduced interest rates and reduction of
> the principal.. They negotiate with the banks.. If
> you try to do it directly with the bank you will not
> have the same success..   If we can not get a
> Modification the client recieves a 100% refund... 
> Our mission is to help those that want to stay in
> thier homes..... and we have helped hundreds of
> homeowners...
> 
> Jo Ann
> 2009/3/16 Naji
> <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com<mailto:nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>>
> 
> 
> Loan modifications without an actual principal
> reduction to current market valuation only benefits
> the banks, period! You're better off walking away or
> doing a short sale than prolonging the inevitable.
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, Loan Modification programs are being pushed
> (mostly) by the same banks and mortgage brokers that
> were giving away billions of dollars to unqualified
> buyers during the peak... It's amazing that the same
> crooks that were telling a person making 40K a year
> they can afford a 500K home with 0 down are the same
> ones getting into the loan modification business.
> 
> 
> 
> -Naji
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------- >From my previous posting ----------
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone that purchased a home or refinanced (and
> tapped their equity) in the last 5 years or so in
> many parts of the country (if not all of the
> country) is upside down on their mortgage, i.e house
> worth less than what's owed on it, or are falling
> behind on payments:
> 
> 
> 
> So what are the options if you're in that situation:
> 
> 
> 
>     *   Reinstatement - Determine the amount owed
> necessary to bring loan current.
> 
>        *   This just prolongs the inevitable... If
> the house is worth much less, especially in hard hit
> areas, expect to stay put for many many years before
> you break even. So, you may find yourself in the
> same situation a few month or years from now
> 
>     *   Forbearance - Set up a payment plan to bring
> the loan current.
> 
>        *   Another option that's not really going to
> work... If someone cannot pay now, how will he be
> able to become current with more payments.
> 
>     *   Modification - Adjust the loan terms
> (interest rate, payment and length).
> 
>        *   Loan modification only benefits the banks
> at this point... They just tack it on to the back
> end of the mortgage.
> 
=== message truncated ===>
_______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> 



      

From joannkelty8 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 16 17:00:35 2009
From: joannkelty8 at gmail.com (Jo Ann Kelty)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:00:35 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
In-Reply-To: <374767.30876.qm@web30207.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <E8687DEB9C959E488879896C3F6D001121699380@winxbeus12.exchange.xchg>
	<374767.30876.qm@web30207.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ba6acdee0903161400q3f9deb43h9dbb1013801c6792@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Steven

In most cases the bank will not negotiate with you untill you have missed
payments.. but you can get a loan modification it will just take longer
since those that are behind are normally the first to be considered.

If you want to go down that path you may want to start your process soon.

Jo Ann

On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Steven Herbert <sterbert at yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> I've toyed with the idea of walking away (or
> threatening to at least). I bought at $257K and owe
> $248K after 3.5 yrs. I'm not sure if I'm underwater or
> not (probably even w/sealevel).
>
> I haven't missed payments, I'm not struggling to make
> them. But we're a military family and would be moving
> this October. Renting won't pay near the $1800
> mortgage and I'll be losing my income when I move.
> Would a bank care about my situation considering
> October is a ways off?
>
> Steven
>
>
> --- "O'Day, Lili" <lili at lilioday.com> wrote:
>
> > I just want to say that one other possibility for
> > those who think they may have an unfair bank loan is
> > to have a forensic loan audit done. (google it!)
> > One of my clients just had it done on 3 of her
> > Washington Mutual loans . Every one of them had
> > serious violations, which would have meant she would
> > have paid  hundred of thousands of dollars too much
> > to the bank..... (all considered predatory loans)
> > Now the bank is on the hot seat,   She's been
> > offered some really sweet terms on one of the loans.
> > already.  ..2.9% +   .  An audit that shows serious
> > violations puts the borrower in a position to
> > negotiate from a position of strength.
> >
> > Lili O'Day
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From:
> >
> 5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> >
> [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili <5-dayforum-bounces%2Blili>=lilioday.com@
> mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > On Behalf Of Naji
> > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:03 PM
> > To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
> > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away
> > From Your Home Loan
> >
> > Definitions
> > Principal
> > adjective
> > [PicExportError]             first or highest in
> > rank, importance, value, etc.; chief; foremost.
> > noun
> > [PicExportError]             a chief or head of an
> > organization
> > [PicExportError]             something of primary
> > importance
> > [PicExportError]             Law. a person who
> > authorizes another (an agent) to represent him or
> > her
> > [PicExportError]             Finance. a capital sum,
> > the main amount of a loan or investment (as
> > distinguished from interest or profit)
> > Principle noun
> > [PicExportError]             a fundamental
> > assumption. The principles of physics dictate that
> > you cannot travel faster than the speed of light.
> > [PicExportError]             a generally acceptable
>  > rule of action or behaviour. moral principles
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From:
> >
> 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> >
> [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri <5-dayforum-bounces%2Bnkhouri>=
> cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > On Behalf Of Bill Effros
> > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:54 PM
> > To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away
> > From Your Home Loan
> >
> > Jo Ann,
> >
> > Naji's point, and my point is that many homes in
> > many places are not worth the current value of the
> > principal and probably will never ever be worth the
> > value of the principal.
> >
> > A case in point would be a retirement community in
> > Fort Meyers, Fla. where 64 of the 65 homes have been
> > foreclosed.  That 65th home owner should get out of
> > there as quickly as possible, and before paying any
> > more money on the mortgage.  None of those homes
> > will ever be lived in again.
> >
> > While this may seem like an extreme example, there
> > are, at the least, 100,000s of thousands of homes
> > that fall into this category at this time.  100% of
> > their current value will be lost -- the only
> > question is who will take the hit.  Let the banks
> > and the taxpayers take the rest of the hit.  The
> > home buyer has been hurt enough already, don't make
> > it worse.
> >
> > This is not to say payment reduction may not be good
> > for some people.
> >
> > But many on this list would be much better off
> > immediately selling their homes either to the high
> > bidder in a 5-Day Sale, or to their banks if the
> > bank will not accept the current value of the home.
> >
> > Bill Effros
> > Author
> >
> > PS -- Is it principal or principle...the principal
> > is your pal...??
> >
> >
> >
> > Jo Ann Kelty wrote:
> > Bill
> >
> > I would agree if the homeowner is trying to
> > negotiate with the banks directly.. because they do
> > not know all the laws involved that can be used.  We
> > nornally get the Modification for a period of 5
> > years .. That give the homeowner the opportunity to
> > get out from under any financial dificulties that
> > they may be in at this time and if we are lucky the
> > market may ( or may not ) go up in value.... but it
> > will give them some breathing room ..
> >
> > If they negotiate with a bank ... the bank will
> > normally only give them a 6 month reprive... and
> > almost 50% will again be behind in thier payments at
> > the end of that period because they are back to the
> > original payment.
> >
> > Jo Ann
> > On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Jo Ann Kelty
> >
> <joannkelty8 at gmail.com<mailto:joannkelty8 at gmail.com>>
> > wrote:
> > Naji
> >
> > I work for Attorneys that have a 98% success rate in
> > getting both reduced interest rates and reduction of
> > the principal.. They negotiate with the banks.. If
> > you try to do it directly with the bank you will not
> > have the same success..   If we can not get a
> > Modification the client recieves a 100% refund...
> > Our mission is to help those that want to stay in
> > thier homes..... and we have helped hundreds of
> > homeowners...
> >
> > Jo Ann
> > 2009/3/16 Naji
> > <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com<mailto:nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>>
>  >
> >
> > Loan modifications without an actual principal
> > reduction to current market valuation only benefits
> > the banks, period! You're better off walking away or
> > doing a short sale than prolonging the inevitable.
> >
> >
> >
> > BTW, Loan Modification programs are being pushed
> > (mostly) by the same banks and mortgage brokers that
> > were giving away billions of dollars to unqualified
> > buyers during the peak... It's amazing that the same
> > crooks that were telling a person making 40K a year
> > they can afford a 500K home with 0 down are the same
> > ones getting into the loan modification business.
> >
> >
> >
> > -Naji
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------- >From my previous posting ----------
> >
> >
> >
> > Anyone that purchased a home or refinanced (and
> > tapped their equity) in the last 5 years or so in
> > many parts of the country (if not all of the
> > country) is upside down on their mortgage, i.e house
> > worth less than what's owed on it, or are falling
> > behind on payments:
> >
> >
> >
> > So what are the options if you're in that situation:
> >
> >
> >
> >     *   Reinstatement - Determine the amount owed
> > necessary to bring loan current.
> >
> >        *   This just prolongs the inevitable... If
> > the house is worth much less, especially in hard hit
> > areas, expect to stay put for many many years before
> > you break even. So, you may find yourself in the
> > same situation a few month or years from now
> >
> >     *   Forbearance - Set up a payment plan to bring
> > the loan current.
> >
> >        *   Another option that's not really going to
> > work... If someone cannot pay now, how will he be
> > able to become current with more payments.
> >
> >     *   Modification - Adjust the loan terms
> > (interest rate, payment and length).
> >
> >        *   Loan modification only benefits the banks
> > at this point... They just tack it on to the back
> > end of the mortgage.
> >
> === message truncated ===>
>  _______________________________________________
> > 5-DayForum mailing list
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> >
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> >
>
>
>
>
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From joannkelty8 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 16 17:03:48 2009
From: joannkelty8 at gmail.com (Jo Ann Kelty)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:03:48 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
In-Reply-To: <E8687DEB9C959E488879896C3F6D001121699380@winxbeus12.exchange.xchg>
References: <82B5E5D7579048D49980B643199686F7@NSKHome>
	<E8687DEB9C959E488879896C3F6D001121699380@winxbeus12.exchange.xchg>
Message-ID: <ba6acdee0903161403t1dc6206al97e9abe90ea466bc@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Lili

A forensic loan audit is what our Attorneys start with and it gives them
leverage to negotiate with the banks.  The laws for this vary from state to
state.

Jo Ann

2009/3/16 O'Day, Lili <lili at lilioday.com>

>  I just want to say that one other possibility for those who think they
> may have an unfair bank loan is to have a forensic loan audit done. (google
> it!)  One of my clients just had it done on 3 of her Washington Mutual loans
> . Every one of them had serious violations, which would have meant she would
> have paid  hundred of thousands of dollars too much to the bank..... (all
> considered predatory loans)  Now the bank is on the hot seat,   She's been
> offered some really sweet terms on one of the loans. already.  ..2.9% +
> .  An audit that shows serious violations puts the borrower in a position to
> negotiate from a position of strength.
>
> Lili O'Day
>
>  ------------------------------
> *From:* 5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com@
> mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili<5-dayforum-bounces%2Blili>
> =lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] *On Behalf Of *Naji
> *Sent:* Monday, March 16, 2009 2:03 PM
>
> *To:* 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
> *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
>
>    Definitions
>
> *Principal*
>
> *adjective*
>
> [image: *]             first or highest in rank, importance, value, etc.;
> chief; foremost.
>
> *noun*
>
> [image: *]             a chief or head of an organization
>
> [image: *]             something of primary importance
>
> [image: *]             *Law.* a person who authorizes another (an agent)
> to represent him or her
>
> [image: *]             *Finance.* a capital sum, the main amount of a loan
> or investment (as distinguished from interest or profit)
>
> *Principle* *noun*
>
> [image: *]             a fundamental assumption. *The principles of
> physics dictate that you cannot travel faster than the speed of light.*
>
> [image: *]             a generally acceptable rule of action or behaviour.
> *moral principles*
>
>
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com@
> mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri<5-dayforum-bounces%2Bnkhouri>
> =cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill
> Effros
> *Sent:* Monday, March 16, 2009 2:54 PM
> *To:* How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
>
>
>
> Jo Ann,
>
> Naji's point, and my point is that many homes in many places are not worth
> the current value of the principal and probably will never ever be worth the
> value of the principal.
>
> A case in point would be a retirement community in Fort Meyers, Fla. where
> 64 of the 65 homes have been foreclosed.  That 65th home owner should get
> out of there as quickly as possible, and before paying any more money on the
> mortgage.  None of those homes will ever be lived in again.
>
> While this may seem like an extreme example, there are, at the least,
> 100,000s of thousands of homes that fall into this category at this time.
> 100% of their current value will be lost -- the only question is who will
> take the hit.  Let the banks and the taxpayers take the rest of the hit.
> The home buyer has been hurt enough already, don't make it worse.
>
> This is not to say payment reduction may not be good for some people.
>
> But many on this list would be much better off immediately selling their
> homes either to the high bidder in a 5-Day Sale, or to their banks if the
> bank will not accept the current value of the home.
>
> Bill Effros
> Author
>
> PS -- Is it principal or principle...the principal is your pal...??
>
>
>
> Jo Ann Kelty wrote:
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> I would agree if the homeowner is trying to negotiate with the banks
> directly.. because they do not know all the laws involved that can be used.
> We nornally get the Modification for a period of 5 years .. That give the
> homeowner the opportunity to get out from under any financial dificulties
> that they may be in at this time and if we are lucky the market may ( or may
> not ) go up in value.... but it will give them some breathing room ..
>
>
>
> If they negotiate with a bank ... the bank will normally only give them a 6
> month reprive... and almost 50% will again be behind in thier payments at
> the end of that period because they are back to the original payment.
>
>
>
> Jo Ann
>
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Naji
>
>
>
> I work for Attorneys that have a 98% success rate in getting both reduced
> interest rates and reduction of the principal.. They negotiate with the
> banks.. If you try to do it directly with the bank you will not have the
> same success..   If we can not get a Modification the client recieves a 100%
> refund...  Our mission is to help those that want to stay in thier
> homes..... and we have helped hundreds of homeowners...
>
>
>
> Jo Ann
>
> 2009/3/16 Naji <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>
>
>
>
> Loan modifications without an *actual principal reduction to current
> market valuation* only benefits the banks, period! You?re better off
> walking away or doing a short sale than prolonging the inevitable.
>
>
>
> BTW, Loan Modification programs are being pushed (mostly) by the same banks
> and mortgage brokers that were giving away billions of dollars to
> unqualified buyers during the peak? It?s amazing that the same crooks that
> were telling a person making 40K a year they can afford a 500K home with 0
> down are the same ones getting into the loan modification business.
>
>
>
> -Naji
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- >From my previous posting ----------
>
>
>
> Anyone that purchased a home or refinanced (and tapped their equity) in the
> last 5 years or so in many parts of the country (if not all of the country)
> is upside down on their mortgage, i.e house worth less than what?s owed on
> it, or are falling behind on payments:
>
>
>
> So what are the options if you?re in that situation:
>
>
>
>     1. Reinstatement - Determine the amount owed necessary to bring loan
>       current.
>
>
>     - This just prolongs the inevitable? If the house is worth much less,
>          especially in hard hit areas, expect to stay put for many many years before
>          you break even. So, you may find yourself in the same situation a few month
>          or years from now
>
>
>     1. Forbearance - Set up a payment plan to bring the loan current.
>
>
>     - Another option that?s not really going to work? If someone cannot
>          pay now, how will he be able to become current with more payments.
>
>
>     1. Modification - Adjust the loan terms (interest rate, payment and
>       length).
>
>
>     - Loan modification only benefits the banks at this point? They just
>          tack it on to the back end of the mortgage.
>          - This will only work if banks actually reduce the principal to
>          match current value. Unfortunately, less than 1% of loan modifications
>          result in principal reductions.
>
>
>     1. Deed-in-lieu - Give the property back to the lender.
>
>
>     - Works if the lender agrees to it and there aren?t 2nd, 3rd, etc
>          liens
>
>
>     1. Walk Away - Leave the property in the most beneficial way possible.
>
>
>     - Stay as long as you can in the home ? You can stay at least 8 months
>          before it goes to the bank and in states like Florida, expect to stay almost
>          2 years.
>          - Don?t pay the mortgage, but instead save it all so you can
>          rebuild your life
>          - When it?s judgment time, find a place to rent and plan on
>          renting for a while
>          - You could also offload your property to someone as well
>
>
>     1. Short Sale - List the property for less than the amount owed.
>
>
>     - You can negotiate a short sale with your bank? You can do it
>          yourself or hire someone to do it on you behalf. It?s really not that
>          difficult, all it takes is communicating with your lender
>          - Many banks are getting easier to work with while others are
>          still in dreamville
>          - Expect this to take months due to the bank backlogs. Also, some
>          banks want to see the property on the market for at least 90 days before
>          agreeing to anything. Then they do their own BPO (which is still out of
>          whack) and wait like everyone else thinking they can get all their money
>          back?
>
>
>     1. Refinance - Obtain a new loan to replace the current loan(s).
>
>
>     - Will not work unless you?re going to bring a big chunk of change to
>          the table.
>
>
>     1. Excess Proceeds- Collecting excess money from the auction/sale of
>       the property.
>
>
>     - Wait until the property goes to the auction block and if there?s any
>          money left after the 1st Lien holder is paid, you may get
>          something back? Doubtful in many cases since all the homes going back are
>          worth less than the mortgage
>
>
>     1. Postponements - Delay the auction/sale date of the property.
>
>
>     - Delay the public auction of the property while you try to figure
>          something out
>          - This will only buy you time and you?ll still have to face the
>          music later
>
>
>     1. Stay In Your Home - Continue living in your current home.
>
>
>     - If you can afford the payments and are willing to stick it out for
>          10 years or more, then just stay put
>
>
>
> -Naji
>
>
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com@
> mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri<5-dayforum-bounces%2Bnkhouri>
> =cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] *On Behalf Of *Jo Ann
> Kelty
> *Sent:* Monday, March 16, 2009 1:25 PM
> *To:* How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
>
>
>
> The one option that you did not mention was a Loan Modification.  This can
> reduce your interest rate thereby reducing your monthly payment so that you
> can afford to stay in your home.  In some cases but not all the principal
> amount can also be reducuded.. If you would like more information regarding
> if you can qualify please contact me.
>
>
>
> Jo Ann Kelty
>
> joannkelty8 at gmail.com
>
>
>
> 407-610-0736
>
> 407-756-6371  cell
>
> On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>
> Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
>
>
> March 14, 2009
> Your Money
> By RON LIEBER
> (
> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/l/ron_lieber/index.html?inline=nyt-per
> )
>
> If you?re among the millions of people who will not qualify for the
> Obama administration?s program to help troubled homeowners, you?re
> probably wondering what you?re supposed to do now.
>
> Perhaps you no longer have enough income to pay your loans
> (
> http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
> ).
> Or you can afford the payments but don?t qualify for refinancing under
> the new plan because the value of your home is too far below the balance
> of the loan. If you?re far enough underwater, you?re probably
> questioning the wisdom of writing a monthly check on a place that may
> take 10 or 15 years to get back to the value it had two or three years
> ago. It isn?t easy to come up with the answer, and if you have moral
> misgivings about not making good on your mortgage
> (
> http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/mortgages/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
> ),
> a religious officiant may offer as much useful guidance as a financial
> planner
> (
> http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/planning/financial-planners/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
> ).
>
> In an economic environment like this one, however, the consequences of
> giving up on your mortgage may not be as painful as they were a few
> years ago. Yes, it?s almost always preferable to negotiate a better deal
> on your existing mortgage than to walk away. But if you can?t work
> things out with your lender, you probably won?t be sued. You shouldn?t
> receive a major tax bill either. And the damage to your credit will not
> be permanent or insurmountable.
>
> Let?s look at these last three in order.
>
> YOUR LENDER First off, let?s define what we mean by ?giving up? on your
> current mortgage. It may mean trying for a short sale
> (
> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/s/short_selling/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
> ),
> where the lender allows you to sell your home for less than the mortgage
> amount. You may also hand over the deed to the home in exchange for the
> lender agreeing not to start foreclosure proceedings (a ?deed in lieu?
> in industry terms). Then, there?s foreclosure itself, and the
> possibility that bankruptcy judges may soon have the power to adjust the
> terms of primary mortgages.
>
> That said, just because you?re ineligible under the Obama plan doesn?t
> mean that your lender or servicer won?t ultimately adjust your mortgage
> anyhow. Collectively, there are enough people in trouble or under water
> on their loans that they have plenty of leverage if they?re willing to
> play chicken with their lender and threaten to stop paying.
>
> The problem is, the lender can play chicken, too, by threatening to come
> after you for the balance of any money you owe ? whether it?s the
> difference between what you sell the property for yourself and the
> remaining mortgage, or the loan amount left over after the lender sells
> your property in foreclosure.
>
> The lender may not follow through, though. ?What our membership is
> telling us is that it can be cost-prohibitive to chase down a borrower
> who is already in financial distress,? said John Mechem, a spokesman for
> the Mortgage Bankers Association. ?You can?t squeeze blood from a
> stone.? They may, however, still come after people with high incomes who
> walk away from jumbo loans that are way under water or loans on
> investment
> (
> http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/investments/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
> )
> properties.
>
> Some states have laws that may specifically prohibit lenders from
> pursuing borrowers for the balance of many mortgage loans after
> foreclosure, though the particulars vary. Arizona and California are
> among these states, according to Steven Bender, a professor at the
> University of Oregon
> (
> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/u/university_of_oregon/index.html?inline=nyt-org
> )
> School of Law. It?s best to talk to a lawyer to determine your state?s
> rules.
>
> In fact, if you want to be sure your lender (or a collection agency that
> it may sell your loan to) won?t chase you down, it?s a good idea to have
> a lawyer involved with any short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure
> itself. ?You must get the bank to agree in writing that any deficiency
> is waived,? said Chip Parker, a lawyer specializing in foreclosure with
> Parker & DuFresne in Jacksonville, Fla.
>
> The biggest challenge here may simply be finding someone at the bank to
> help. Having a second mortgage will also complicate matters.
>
> YOUR TAXES You also need to consider the taxman. Often, forgiven debts
> are taxable as income. Recent legislative changes, however, eliminate
> the federal tax burden through 2012 on most primary residence debt that
> a lender has reduced through loan restructuring or forgiven during
> foreclosure.
>
> Mark Luscombe, principal analyst for CCH, a tax information service,
> said that people who sell their home through a short sale or give up the
> deed in lieu of foreclosure can also qualify for tax relief if they use
> a special tax form, 1099-C, that reflects the amount of debt that the
> lender has forgiven.
>
> People who live in states with their own income taxes may avoid a big
> bill as well. Some states, like Arizona and California, have introduced
> or passed legislation that echoes the federal laws, according to the
> National Conference of State Legislatures. Many others tend to mimic
> most or all federal income tax laws as a general rule, according to CCH.
> Check with an accountant in your state to be sure.
>
> YOUR CREDIT A short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure itself will almost
> certainly damage your credit report and score, and the black mark will
> last for up to seven years. But the amount of damage it does will depend
> on how much other credit trouble you?ve gotten yourself into with other
> lenders.
>
> If you?re giving up the home you own, you?ll probably need to rent soon
> afterward. Will landlords turn you away once they check your credit and
> discover your troubled mortgage? ?If it?s the only thing marring their
> credit, it?s probably not a big issue,? said Clay Powell, the director
> of the Rental Property Owners Association of Michigan, who added that
> good tenants could be scarce in economic environments like this one.
>
> In fact, Todd J. Zywicki, a law professor at George Mason University,
> predicted that FICO may have to adjust its credit scores
> (
> http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-scores/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
> )
> to lessen the impact of a foreclosure or similar incident. ?It just
> seems obvious that a foreclosure in 2008 or 2009 doesn?t have as much
> information value as a foreclosure five years ago,? he said. ?To the
> extent that foreclosure doesn?t predict future behavior as much as it
> did in the past, you?d expect that the FICO algorithm would change to
> adjust for that.?
>
> Craig Watts, a spokesman for FICO, said that was an interesting idea.
> ?We try not to get involved too much in psychobabble around what is and
> isn?t predictive,? he said. ?If the numbers show that foreclosure is
> less predictive, then we?ll take it into account in future
> redevelopments of the formula.? That would take a minimum of two to
> three years, though.
>
> Some lenders aren?t waiting that long to initiate their own foreclosure
> destigmatization programs. The Golden 1, one of the nation?s largest
> credit unions, now has a mortgage repair loan for people who have lost a
> home to foreclosure but want to buy a new one.
>
> It?s hard to imagine that there won?t be a parade of insurance
> (
> http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/insurance/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
> )
> companies, credit card
> (
> http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-and-debit-cards/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
> )
> issuers and mortgage lenders in Golden 1?s wake, even though Fannie Mae
> (
> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/fannie_mae/index.html?inline=nyt-org
> )
> and Freddie Mac
> (
> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/freddie_mac/index.html?inline=nyt-org
> )
> may be unwilling to guarantee the mortgages of such borrowers for
> several years. In fact, Aaron Bresko, the vice president of lending for
> BECU, another large credit union based in Washington State, is putting
> together a panel called ?How to Lend to the Newly Credit Impaired? for a
> conference later this year.
>
> ?Good people have bad things happen to them, so how do you find those
> people and reach out to them?? he said. ?As the year progresses, it?s
> going to be an emerging market.?
>
> How are you handling your mortgage problems?
> Write to rlieber at nytimes.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
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>
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>
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>
>
>
>
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From sterbert at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 16 17:17:44 2009
From: sterbert at yahoo.com (Steven Herbert)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 14:17:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
In-Reply-To: <ba6acdee0903161400q3f9deb43h9dbb1013801c6792@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <710179.91365.qm@web30205.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Bill suggests I stop making payments.

Would THAT speed the process along? Or am I just
asking for trouble since I could be making them (it
just doesn't make sense to, according to Bill)?

Steven 
Washington HomeOwner


--- Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Steven
> 
> In most cases the bank will not negotiate with you
> untill you have missed
> payments.. but you can get a loan modification it
> will just take longer
> since those that are behind are normally the first
> to be considered.
> 
> If you want to go down that path you may want to
> start your process soon.
> 
> Jo Ann
> 
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Steven Herbert
> <sterbert at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> > I've toyed with the idea of walking away (or
> > threatening to at least). I bought at $257K and
> owe
> > $248K after 3.5 yrs. I'm not sure if I'm
> underwater or
> > not (probably even w/sealevel).
> >
> > I haven't missed payments, I'm not struggling to
> make
> > them. But we're a military family and would be
> moving
> > this October. Renting won't pay near the $1800
> > mortgage and I'll be losing my income when I move.
> > Would a bank care about my situation considering
> > October is a ways off?
> >
> > Steven
> >
> >
> > --- "O'Day, Lili" <lili at lilioday.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I just want to say that one other possibility
> for
> > > those who think they may have an unfair bank
> loan is
> > > to have a forensic loan audit done. (google it!)
> > > One of my clients just had it done on 3 of her
> > > Washington Mutual loans . Every one of them had
> > > serious violations, which would have meant she
> would
> > > have paid  hundred of thousands of dollars too
> much
> > > to the bank..... (all considered predatory
> loans)
> > > Now the bank is on the hot seat,   She's been
> > > offered some really sweet terms on one of the
> loans.
> > > already.  ..2.9% +   .  An audit that shows
> serious
> > > violations puts the borrower in a position to
> > > negotiate from a position of strength.
> > >
> > > Lili O'Day
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
>
5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Blili>=lilioday.com@
> > mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Naji
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:03 PM
> > > To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Definitions
> > > Principal
> > > adjective
> > > [PicExportError]             first or highest in
> > > rank, importance, value, etc.; chief; foremost.
> > > noun
> > > [PicExportError]             a chief or head of
> an
> > > organization
> > > [PicExportError]             something of
> primary
> > > importance
> > > [PicExportError]             Law. a person who
> > > authorizes another (an agent) to represent him
> or
> > > her
> > > [PicExportError]             Finance. a capital
> sum,
> > > the main amount of a loan or investment (as
> > > distinguished from interest or profit)
> > > Principle noun
> > > [PicExportError]             a fundamental
> > > assumption. The principles of physics dictate
> that
> > > you cannot travel faster than the speed of
> light.
> > > [PicExportError]             a generally
> acceptable
> >  > rule of action or behaviour. moral principles
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
>
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Bnkhouri>=
> > cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Bill Effros
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:54 PM
> > > To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Jo Ann,
> > >
> > > Naji's point, and my point is that many homes in
> > > many places are not worth the current value of
> the
> > > principal and probably will never ever be worth
> the
> > > value of the principal.
> > >
> > > A case in point would be a retirement community
> in
> > > Fort Meyers, Fla. where 64 of the 65 homes have
> been
> > > foreclosed.  That 65th home owner should get out
> of
> > > there as quickly as possible, and before paying
> any
> > > more money on the mortgage.  None of those homes
> > > will ever be lived in again.
> > >
> > > While this may seem like an extreme example,
> there
> > > are, at the least, 100,000s of thousands of
> homes
> > > that fall into this category at this time.  100%
> of
> > > their current value will be lost -- the only
> > > question is who will take the hit.  Let the
> banks
> > > and the taxpayers take the rest of the hit.  The
> > > home buyer has been hurt enough already, don't
> make
> > > it worse.
> > >
> > > This is not to say payment reduction may not be
> good
> > > for some people.
> > >
> > > But many on this list would be much better off
> > > immediately selling their homes either to the
> high
> > > bidder in a 5-Day Sale, or to their banks if the
> > > bank will not accept the current value of the
> home.
> > >
> > > Bill Effros
> > > Author
> > >
> > > PS -- Is it principal or principle...the
> principal
> > > is your pal...??
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jo Ann Kelty wrote:
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > I would agree if the homeowner is trying to
> > > negotiate with the banks directly.. because they
> do
> > > not know all the laws involved that can be used.
>  We
> > > nornally get the Modification for a period of 5
> > > years .. That give the homeowner the opportunity
> to
> > > get out from under any financial dificulties
> that
> > > they may be in at this time and if we are lucky
> the
> > > market may ( or may not ) go up in value.... but
> it
> > > will give them some breathing room ..
> > >
> > > If they negotiate with a bank ... the bank will
> > > normally only give them a 6 month reprive... and
> > > almost 50% will again be behind in thier
> payments 
=== message truncated ===>
_______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> 



      

From nkhouri at cfl.rr.com  Mon Mar 16 17:34:05 2009
From: nkhouri at cfl.rr.com (Naji)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:34:05 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
In-Reply-To: <710179.91365.qm@web30205.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <ba6acdee0903161400q3f9deb43h9dbb1013801c6792@mail.gmail.com>
	<710179.91365.qm@web30205.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1948FBB0A2CB4D1897BD7ACA70C0A702@NSKHome>

Steven,

There is no 1 size fits all solution. Every person has a different situation
and circumstances.

Start out with what your main objective is, and then take it from there...
There's no FREE lunch and you can't have the cake and eat it too. You will
have to pay the price one way or another, either by coming to the table with
money for the difference, getting zinged on your credit, getting hit by
uncle sam if it's not a primary residence, getting a deficiency judgment,
etc...

Let me know if you have any questions.

-Naji

This is from a previous posting that I made on this forum:

Anyone that purchased a home or refinanced (and tapped their equity) in the
last 5 years or so in many parts of the country (if not all of the country)
is upside down on their mortgage, i.e house worth less than what's owed on
it, or are falling behind on payments:

So what are the options if you're in that situation:

- Reinstatement - Determine the amount owed necessary to bring loan current.

This just prolongs the inevitable. If the house is worth much less,
especially in hard hit areas, expect to stay put for many many years before
you break even. So, you may find yourself in the same situation a few month
or years from now 
- Forbearance - Set up a payment plan to bring the loan current. 
Another option that's not really going to work. If someone cannot pay now,
how will he be able to become current with more payments. 
- Modification - Adjust the loan terms (interest rate, payment and length). 
Loan modification only benefits the banks at this point. They just tack it
on to the back end of the mortgage. 
This will only work if banks actually reduce the principal to match current
value. Unfortunately, less than 1% of loan modifications result in principal
reductions. 
- Deed-in-lieu - Give the property back to the lender. 
Works if the lender agrees to it and there aren't 2nd, 3rd, etc liens 
- Walk Away - Leave the property in the most beneficial way possible. 
	- Stay as long as you can in the home - You can stay at least 8
months before it goes to the bank and in states like Florida, expect to stay
almost 2 years. 
	- Don't pay the mortgage, but instead save it all so you can rebuild
your life 
	- When it's judgment time, find a place to rent and plan on renting
for a while 
	- You could also offload your property to someone as well 
- Short Sale - List the property for less than the amount owed. 
	- You can negotiate a short sale with your bank. You can do it
yourself or hire someone to do it on you behalf. It's really not that
difficult, all it takes is communicating with your lender 
	- Many banks are getting easier to work with while others are still
in dreamville 
	- Expect this to take months due to the bank backlogs. Also, some
banks want to see the property on the market for at least 90 days before
agreeing to anything. Then they do their own BPO (which is still out of
whack) and wait like everyone else thinking they can get all their money
back. 
- Refinance - Obtain a new loan to replace the current loan(s). 
Will not work unless you're going to bring a big chunk of change to the
table. 
- Excess Proceeds- Collecting excess money from the auction/sale of the
property. 
Wait until the property goes to the auction block and if there's any money
left after the 1st Lien holder is paid, you may get something back. Doubtful
in many cases since all the homes going back are worth less than the
mortgage 
- Postponements - Delay the auction/sale date of the property. 
Delay the public auction of the property while you try to figure something
out. This will only buy you time and you'll still have to face the music
later. 
- Stay In Your Home - Continue living in your current home. 
If you can afford the payments and are willing to stick it out for 10 years
or more, then just stay put

-----Original Message-----
From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of Steven Herbert
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 5:18 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan


Bill suggests I stop making payments.

Would THAT speed the process along? Or am I just
asking for trouble since I could be making them (it
just doesn't make sense to, according to Bill)?

Steven 
Washington HomeOwner


--- Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Steven
> 
> In most cases the bank will not negotiate with you
> untill you have missed
> payments.. but you can get a loan modification it
> will just take longer
> since those that are behind are normally the first
> to be considered.
> 
> If you want to go down that path you may want to
> start your process soon.
> 
> Jo Ann
> 
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Steven Herbert
> <sterbert at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> > I've toyed with the idea of walking away (or
> > threatening to at least). I bought at $257K and
> owe
> > $248K after 3.5 yrs. I'm not sure if I'm
> underwater or
> > not (probably even w/sealevel).
> >
> > I haven't missed payments, I'm not struggling to
> make
> > them. But we're a military family and would be
> moving
> > this October. Renting won't pay near the $1800
> > mortgage and I'll be losing my income when I move.
> > Would a bank care about my situation considering
> > October is a ways off?
> >
> > Steven
> >
> >
> > --- "O'Day, Lili" <lili at lilioday.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I just want to say that one other possibility
> for
> > > those who think they may have an unfair bank
> loan is
> > > to have a forensic loan audit done. (google it!)
> > > One of my clients just had it done on 3 of her
> > > Washington Mutual loans . Every one of them had
> > > serious violations, which would have meant she
> would
> > > have paid  hundred of thousands of dollars too
> much
> > > to the bank..... (all considered predatory
> loans)
> > > Now the bank is on the hot seat,   She's been
> > > offered some really sweet terms on one of the
> loans.
> > > already.  ..2.9% +   .  An audit that shows
> serious
> > > violations puts the borrower in a position to
> > > negotiate from a position of strength.
> > >
> > > Lili O'Day
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
>
5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Blili>=lilioday.com@
> > mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Naji
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:03 PM
> > > To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Definitions
> > > Principal
> > > adjective
> > > [PicExportError]             first or highest in
> > > rank, importance, value, etc.; chief; foremost.
> > > noun
> > > [PicExportError]             a chief or head of
> an
> > > organization
> > > [PicExportError]             something of
> primary
> > > importance
> > > [PicExportError]             Law. a person who
> > > authorizes another (an agent) to represent him
> or
> > > her
> > > [PicExportError]             Finance. a capital
> sum,
> > > the main amount of a loan or investment (as
> > > distinguished from interest or profit)
> > > Principle noun
> > > [PicExportError]             a fundamental
> > > assumption. The principles of physics dictate
> that
> > > you cannot travel faster than the speed of
> light.
> > > [PicExportError]             a generally
> acceptable
> >  > rule of action or behaviour. moral principles
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
>
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Bnkhouri>=
> > cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Bill Effros
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:54 PM
> > > To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Jo Ann,
> > >
> > > Naji's point, and my point is that many homes in
> > > many places are not worth the current value of
> the
> > > principal and probably will never ever be worth
> the
> > > value of the principal.
> > >
> > > A case in point would be a retirement community
> in
> > > Fort Meyers, Fla. where 64 of the 65 homes have
> been
> > > foreclosed.  That 65th home owner should get out
> of
> > > there as quickly as possible, and before paying
> any
> > > more money on the mortgage.  None of those homes
> > > will ever be lived in again.
> > >
> > > While this may seem like an extreme example,
> there
> > > are, at the least, 100,000s of thousands of
> homes
> > > that fall into this category at this time.  100%
> of
> > > their current value will be lost -- the only
> > > question is who will take the hit.  Let the
> banks
> > > and the taxpayers take the rest of the hit.  The
> > > home buyer has been hurt enough already, don't
> make
> > > it worse.
> > >
> > > This is not to say payment reduction may not be
> good
> > > for some people.
> > >
> > > But many on this list would be much better off
> > > immediately selling their homes either to the
> high
> > > bidder in a 5-Day Sale, or to their banks if the
> > > bank will not accept the current value of the
> home.
> > >
> > > Bill Effros
> > > Author
> > >
> > > PS -- Is it principal or principle...the
> principal
> > > is your pal...??
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jo Ann Kelty wrote:
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > I would agree if the homeowner is trying to
> > > negotiate with the banks directly.. because they
> do
> > > not know all the laws involved that can be used.
>  We
> > > nornally get the Modification for a period of 5
> > > years .. That give the homeowner the opportunity
> to
> > > get out from under any financial dificulties
> that
> > > they may be in at this time and if we are lucky
> the
> > > market may ( or may not ) go up in value.... but
> it
> > > will give them some breathing room ..
> > >
> > > If they negotiate with a bank ... the bank will
> > > normally only give them a 6 month reprive... and
> > > almost 50% will again be behind in thier
> payments 
=== message truncated ===>
_______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> 



      
_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum



From czimpfer at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 16 17:13:15 2009
From: czimpfer at earthlink.net (Cynthia Zimpfer)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:13:15 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] 2009 update?
Message-ID: <03D4F396-B4EE-4F0D-8139-24E66DEE4778@earthlink.net>

HI,
We are looking to sell our home in Maplewood, New Jersey in the spring  
of 2010.
How has the 5 day method changed now vs. last year given the current  
economic recession we are in and with the housing slump?

Any advice you can send our way would be  very appreciated.
Thank you.

Cynthia Zimpfer


From sean at folkson.com  Mon Mar 16 17:15:17 2009
From: sean at folkson.com (Sean Folkson)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 22:15:17 +0100
Subject: [5-DayForum]  Pricing?
Message-ID: <200903162117.n2GLHL3P019294@intel1.peregrinehw.com>

Bill, we would have DEFINITELY taken $355K had we gotten it at the 
auction.  The buyer was incapable of going that high.

The buyers we attracted were not capable of paying fair market value, 
which was in the mid to upper 3's.

Whether we spooked them or not is up for debate, but we WERE prepared 
to accept fair market value.  They were not capable of paying 
it....We interviewed several brokers after the sale weekend, one of 
whom was the one we chose, and 2 others that had no "horse in the 
race".  The realtor had absolutely NO REASON to think we'd list the 
property with him if we didn't get the sale.

Anyway, lots of speculation on this thread.

Thanks for your feedback, and your book, which I think is a great 
resource....I'll run my "One Weekend Reserve Auction", or whatever I 
choose to call it, inspired by many of your ideas, and hope/expect to 
get current fair market value (as I was on my previous sale), which I 
am fairly confident is well above my asking price.

sean


From bill at effros.com  Mon Mar 16 17:49:48 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:49:48 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] 2009 update?
In-Reply-To: <03D4F396-B4EE-4F0D-8139-24E66DEE4778@earthlink.net>
References: <03D4F396-B4EE-4F0D-8139-24E66DEE4778@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <49BEC97C.4010606@effros.com>

Cynthia,

There has been no change in how the 5-Day Method is employed.

You must start at 50% of the current market value -- you are not going 
to get what you believe you once could have gotten.

The New York area is among the last to really feel price declines.  They 
are just starting around here, whereas they have been palpable in other 
parts of the country for a year and a half.

What will happen a year from now is anyone's guess.

Bill Effros
Author



Cynthia Zimpfer wrote:
> HI,
> We are looking to sell our home in Maplewood, New Jersey in the spring  
> of 2010.
> How has the 5 day method changed now vs. last year given the current  
> economic recession we are in and with the housing slump?
>
> Any advice you can send our way would be  very appreciated.
> Thank you.
>
> Cynthia Zimpfer
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>   

From lbicon at aol.com  Mon Mar 16 19:39:33 2009
From: lbicon at aol.com (lbicon at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:39:33 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
In-Reply-To: <710179.91365.qm@web30205.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8CB74A797FEB10A-E84-1540@webmail-de21.sysops.aol.com>

Steven,

You should call your lender and give them a reason that you are "struggling" to make your payments. I have had about six clients call their lenders and get either "steamlined" refionances or loan payment mods. If you are looking for a significant reduction in your principle it isn't out there yet.

Conrad Kuiken, Loan Officer,short sale negociator,realtor,investor


-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Herbert <sterbert at yahoo.com>
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Sent: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 2:17 pm
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan




Bill suggests I stop making payments.

Would THAT speed the process along? Or am I just
asking for trouble since I could be making them (it
just doesn't make sense to, according to Bill)?

Steven 
Washington HomeOwner


--- Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Steven
> 
> In most cases the bank will not negotiate with you
> untill you have missed
> payments.. but you can get a loan modification it
> will just take longer
> since those that are behind are normally the first
> to be considered.
> 
> If you want to go down that path you may want to
> start your process soon.
> 
> Jo Ann
> 
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Steven Herbert
> <sterbert at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> > I've toyed with the idea of walking away (or
> > threatening to at least). I bought at $257K and
> owe
> > $248K after 3.5 yrs. I'm not sure if I'm
> underwater or
> > not (probably even w/sealevel).
> >
> > I haven't missed payments, I'm not struggling to
> make
> > them. But we're a military family and would be
> moving
> > this October. Renting won't pay near the $1800
> > mortgage and I'll be losing my income when I move.
> > Would a bank care about my situation considering
> > October is a ways off?
> >
> > Steven
> >
> >
> > --- "O'Day, Lili" <lili at lilioday.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I just want to say that one other possibility
> for
> > > those who think they may have an unfair bank
> loan is
> > > to have a forensic loan audit done. (google it!)
> > > One of my clients just had it done on 3 of her
> > > Washington Mutual loans . Every one of them had
> > > serious violations, which would have meant she
> would
> > > have paid  hundred of thousands of dollars too
> much
> > > to the bank..... (all considered predatory
> loans)
> > > Now the bank is on the hot seat,   She's been
> > > offered some really sweet terms on one of the
> loans.
> > > already.  ..2.9% +   .  An audit that shows
> serious
> > > violations puts the borrower in a position to
> > > negotiate from a position of strength.
> > >
> > > Lili O'Day
> > >
> >
 > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
>
5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Blili>=lilioday.com@
> > mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Naji
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:03 PM
> > > To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Definitions
> > > Principal
> > > adjective
> > > [PicExportError]             first or highest in
> > > rank, importance, value, etc.; chief; foremost.
> > > noun
> > > [PicExportError]             a chief or head of
> an
> > > organization
> > > [PicExportError]             something of
> primary
> > > importance
> > > [PicExportError]             Law. a person who
> > > authorizes another (an agent) to represent him
> or
> > > her
> > > [PicExportError]             Finance. a capital
> sum,
> > > the main amount of a loan or investment (as
> > > distinguished from interest or profit)
> > > Principle noun
> > > [PicExportError]             a fundamental
> > > assumption. The principles of physics dictate
> that
> > > you cannot travel faster than the speed of
> light.
> > > [PicExportError]             a generally
> acceptable
> >  > rule of action or behaviour. moral principles
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
>
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Bnkhouri>=
> > cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Bill Effros
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:54 PM
> > > To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Jo Ann,
> > >
> > > Naji's point, and my point is that many homes in
> > > many places are not worth the current value of
> the
> > > principal and probably will never ever be worth
> the

> > > value of the principal.
> > >
> > > A case in point would be a retirement community
> in
> > > Fort Meyers, Fla. where 64 of the 65 homes have
> been
> > > foreclosed.  That 65th home owner should get out
> of
> > > there as quickly as possible, and before paying
> any
> > > more money on the mortgage.  None of those homes
> > > will ever be lived in again.
> > >
> > > While this may seem like an extreme example,
> there
> > > are, at the least, 100,000s of thousands of
> homes
> > > that fall into this category at this time.  100%
> of
> > > their current value will be lost -- the only
> > > question is who will take the hit.  Let the
> banks
> > > and the taxpayers take the rest of the hit.  The
> > > home buyer has been hurt enough already, don't
> make
> > > it worse.
> > >
> > > This is not to say payment reduction may not be
> good
> > > for some people.
> > >
> > > But many on this list would be much better off
> > > immediately selling their homes either to the
> high
> > > bidder in a 5-Day Sale, or to their banks if the
> > > bank will not accept the current value of the
> home.
> > >
> > > Bill Effros
> > > Author
> > >
> > > PS -- Is it principal or principle...the
> principal
> > > is your pal...??
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jo Ann Kelty wrote:
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > I would agree if the homeowner is trying to
> > > negotiate with the banks directly.. because they
> do
> > > not know all the laws involved that can be used.
>  We
> > > nornally get the Modification for a period of 5
> > > years .. That give the homeowner the opportunity
> to
> > > get out from under any financial dificulties
> that
> > > they may be in at this time and if we are lucky
> the
> > > market may ( or may not ) go up in value.... but
> it
> > > will give them some breathing room ..
> > >
> > > If they negotiate with a bank ... the bank will
> > > normally only give them a 6 month reprive... and
> > > almost 50% will again be behind in thier
> payments 
=== message truncated ===>
_________________________________________
______
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> 



      
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From ejurban at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 16 19:47:24 2009
From: ejurban at hotmail.com (Edmund Urban)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 13:47:24 -1000
Subject: [5-DayForum] Hawaii downtown condo - currently have realtor
Message-ID: <SNT104-W4073860A2E27E9C0F0637AAA9B0@phx.gbl>


Aloha!

We have had our downtown condo listed with a realtor for the past several months.  It went into escrow once at $380k in Jan, but fell out last month at the end of closing due to seller financing (there was a competing offer of $363k).  The potential buyer had an appraisal in Jan that received the full appraisal amount.

 

We recently had an investor cash offer at $357k and we countered at $363k, but they did not accept or go higher.  My wife wanted to accept their offer, and with the potential loss of sale or lower offer, I am now in the dog house.  They went to relook again today, but do not know if they will reoffer.  My thought is that the condo could get close to $370k.  I would imagine that we would accept if they offered close to the same amount (which seems a little low to me - even though it is cash), but how would we go about a 5-day sale considering we have a realtor?

 

Sorry if this question has been asked.  I wish I had read the book before we listed instead of this past week.  I joined the forum a couple of days ago, but have not gone through past threads.  If there is one that answers this question, could someone pass it on please?

Mahalo,

Ed

_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. 
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From rosemarie-fred at mindspring.com  Mon Mar 16 22:22:54 2009
From: rosemarie-fred at mindspring.com (rosemarie-fred)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 22:22:54 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Hawaii downtown condo - currently have realtor
References: <SNT104-W4073860A2E27E9C0F0637AAA9B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C1A9394A6FE847319571EBAC6FC56C59@rosemarifv6onv>

I don't know anything about the real estate market in Hawaii - is it as bad as in most places? If so, I would think that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, and you should accept the offer.  Lots of people have being doing 5-day sales recently who thought their property was worth some amount, and come to find out the 5-day sale showed them that it was not worth that much after all.
If you don't get an offer now, and decide to go with the 5-day sale, you would have to ask your realtor to cancel the contract. If someone comes who already saw your house because of the realtor, you would, I think. still owe the commission.
Good luck. 
Rosemarie
Sometime 5-day seller, investor
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Edmund Urban 
  To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
  Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 7:47 PM
  Subject: [5-DayForum] Hawaii downtown condo - currently have realtor


  Aloha!
  We have had our downtown condo listed with a realtor for the past several months.  It went into escrow once at $380k in Jan, but fell out last month at the end of closing due to seller financing (there was a competing offer of $363k).  The potential buyer had an appraisal in Jan that received the full appraisal amount.
   
  We recently had an investor cash offer at $357k and we countered at $363k, but they did not accept or go higher.  My wife wanted to accept their offer, and with the potential loss of sale or lower offer, I am now in the dog house.  They went to relook again today, but do not know if they will reoffer.  My thought is that the condo could get close to $370k.  I would imagine that we would accept if they offered close to the same amount (which seems a little low to me - even though it is cash), but how would we go about a 5-day sale considering we have a realtor?
   
  Sorry if this question has been asked.  I wish I had read the book before we listed instead of this past week.  I joined the forum a couple of days ago, but have not gone through past threads.  If there is one that answers this question, could someone pass it on please?
  Mahalo,
  Ed


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From joannkelty8 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 16 23:18:47 2009
From: joannkelty8 at gmail.com (Jo Ann Kelty)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 23:18:47 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
In-Reply-To: <710179.91365.qm@web30205.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <ba6acdee0903161400q3f9deb43h9dbb1013801c6792@mail.gmail.com>
	<710179.91365.qm@web30205.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ba6acdee0903162018l75be09c6mb0594e89bc6480e7@mail.gmail.com>

I would  never suggest to anyone to stop making payments... there is a
liability to anyone that does that.... even an attorney would not suggest
that you not make your payment if you can... that has to be your choice...

Jo Ann

On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Steven Herbert <sterbert at yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> Bill suggests I stop making payments.
>
> Would THAT speed the process along? Or am I just
> asking for trouble since I could be making them (it
> just doesn't make sense to, according to Bill)?
>
> Steven
> Washington HomeOwner
>
>
> --- Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Steven
> >
> > In most cases the bank will not negotiate with you
> > untill you have missed
> > payments.. but you can get a loan modification it
> > will just take longer
> > since those that are behind are normally the first
> > to be considered.
> >
> > If you want to go down that path you may want to
> > start your process soon.
> >
> > Jo Ann
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Steven Herbert
> > <sterbert at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > I've toyed with the idea of walking away (or
> > > threatening to at least). I bought at $257K and
> > owe
> > > $248K after 3.5 yrs. I'm not sure if I'm
> > underwater or
> > > not (probably even w/sealevel).
> > >
> > > I haven't missed payments, I'm not struggling to
> > make
> > > them. But we're a military family and would be
> > moving
> > > this October. Renting won't pay near the $1800
> > > mortgage and I'll be losing my income when I move.
> > > Would a bank care about my situation considering
> > > October is a ways off?
> > >
> > > Steven
> > >
> > >
> > > --- "O'Day, Lili" <lili at lilioday.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I just want to say that one other possibility
> > for
> > > > those who think they may have an unfair bank
> > loan is
> > > > to have a forensic loan audit done. (google it!)
> > > > One of my clients just had it done on 3 of her
> > > > Washington Mutual loans . Every one of them had
> > > > serious violations, which would have meant she
> > would
> > > > have paid  hundred of thousands of dollars too
> > much
> > > > to the bank..... (all considered predatory
> > loans)
> > > > Now the bank is on the hot seat,   She's been
> > > > offered some really sweet terms on one of the
> > loans.
> > > > already.  ..2.9% +   .  An audit that shows
> > serious
> > > > violations puts the borrower in a position to
> > > > negotiate from a position of strength.
> > > >
> > > > Lili O'Day
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> 5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > > >
> > > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili <5-dayforum-bounces%2Blili>
> > <5-dayforum-bounces%2Blili>=lilioday.com@
>  > > mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > > On Behalf Of Naji
> > > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:03 PM
> > > > To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
> > > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> > Away
> > > > From Your Home Loan
> > > >
> > > > Definitions
> > > > Principal
> > > > adjective
> > > > [PicExportError]             first or highest in
> > > > rank, importance, value, etc.; chief; foremost.
> > > > noun
> > > > [PicExportError]             a chief or head of
> > an
> > > > organization
> > > > [PicExportError]             something of
> > primary
> > > > importance
> > > > [PicExportError]             Law. a person who
> > > > authorizes another (an agent) to represent him
> > or
> > > > her
> > > > [PicExportError]             Finance. a capital
> > sum,
> > > > the main amount of a loan or investment (as
> > > > distinguished from interest or profit)
> > > > Principle noun
> > > > [PicExportError]             a fundamental
> > > > assumption. The principles of physics dictate
> > that
> > > > you cannot travel faster than the speed of
> > light.
> > > > [PicExportError]             a generally
> > acceptable
> > >  > rule of action or behaviour. moral principles
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > > >
> > > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri <5-dayforum-bounces%2Bnkhouri>
> > <5-dayforum-bounces%2Bnkhouri>=
>  > > cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > > On Behalf Of Bill Effros
> > > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:54 PM
> > > > To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> > > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> > Away
> > > > From Your Home Loan
> > > >
> > > > Jo Ann,
> > > >
> > > > Naji's point, and my point is that many homes in
> > > > many places are not worth the current value of
> > the
> > > > principal and probably will never ever be worth
> > the
> > > > value of the principal.
> > > >
> > > > A case in point would be a retirement community
> > in
> > > > Fort Meyers, Fla. where 64 of the 65 homes have
> > been
> > > > foreclosed.  That 65th home owner should get out
> > of
> > > > there as quickly as possible, and before paying
> > any
> > > > more money on the mortgage.  None of those homes
> > > > will ever be lived in again.
> > > >
> > > > While this may seem like an extreme example,
> > there
> > > > are, at the least, 100,000s of thousands of
> > homes
> > > > that fall into this category at this time.  100%
> > of
> > > > their current value will be lost -- the only
> > > > question is who will take the hit.  Let the
> > banks
> > > > and the taxpayers take the rest of the hit.  The
> > > > home buyer has been hurt enough already, don't
> > make
> > > > it worse.
> > > >
> > > > This is not to say payment reduction may not be
> > good
> > > > for some people.
> > > >
> > > > But many on this list would be much better off
> > > > immediately selling their homes either to the
> > high
> > > > bidder in a 5-Day Sale, or to their banks if the
> > > > bank will not accept the current value of the
> > home.
> > > >
> > > > Bill Effros
> > > > Author
> > > >
> > > > PS -- Is it principal or principle...the
> > principal
> > > > is your pal...??
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Jo Ann Kelty wrote:
> > > > Bill
> > > >
> > > > I would agree if the homeowner is trying to
> > > > negotiate with the banks directly.. because they
> > do
> > > > not know all the laws involved that can be used.
> >  We
> > > > nornally get the Modification for a period of 5
> > > > years .. That give the homeowner the opportunity
> > to
> > > > get out from under any financial dificulties
> > that
> > > > they may be in at this time and if we are lucky
> > the
> > > > market may ( or may not ) go up in value.... but
> > it
> > > > will give them some breathing room ..
> > > >
> > > > If they negotiate with a bank ... the bank will
> > > > normally only give them a 6 month reprive... and
> > > > almost 50% will again be behind in thier
> > payments
>  === message truncated ===>
> _______________________________________________
> > 5-DayForum mailing list
> > 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> >
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> >
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
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From joannkelty8 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 16 23:22:42 2009
From: joannkelty8 at gmail.com (Jo Ann Kelty)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 23:22:42 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
In-Reply-To: <8CB74A797FEB10A-E84-1540@webmail-de21.sysops.aol.com>
References: <710179.91365.qm@web30205.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<8CB74A797FEB10A-E84-1540@webmail-de21.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <ba6acdee0903162022ma372d15h286cb1e02703c931@mail.gmail.com>

Conrad

You are correct regarding the principle... however here in Florida I am
seeing the increase in the reduction of principle... last week we had a
client that the negotiators were able to reduce the principle from apx 300k
to 150k  and we are seeing more and more of this happening here.. but  it is
case by case and there are no guarentees..

Jo Ann

2009/3/16 <lbicon at aol.com>

> Steven,
>
> You should call your lender and give them a reason that you are
> "struggling" to make your payments. I have had about six clients call their
> lenders and get either "steamlined" refionances or loan payment mods. If you
> are looking for a significant reduction in your principle it isn't out there
> yet.
>
> Conrad Kuiken, Loan Officer,short sale negociator,realtor,investor
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steven Herbert <sterbert at yahoo.com>
> To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days <
> 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
> Sent: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 2:17 pm
> Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
>
>
> Bill suggests I stop making payments.
>
> Would THAT speed the process along? Or am I just
> asking for trouble since I could be making them (it
> just doesn't make sense to, according to Bill)?
>
> Steven
> Washington HomeOwner
>
>
> --- Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Steven
> >
> > In most cases the bank will not negotiate with you
> > untill you have missed
> > payments.. but you can get a loan modification it
> > will just take longer
> > since those that are behind are normally the first
> > to be considered.
> >
> > If you want to go down that path you may want to
> > start your process soon.
> >
> > Jo Ann
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Steven Herbert
> > <sterbert at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > I've toyed with the idea of walking away (or
> > > threatening to at least). I bought at $257K and
> > owe
> > > $248K after 3.5 yrs. I'm not sure if I'm
> > underwater or
> > > not (probably even w/sealevel).
> > >
> > > I haven't missed payments, I'm not struggling to
> > make
> > > them. But we're a military family and would be
> > moving
> > > this October. Renting won't pay near the $1800
> > > mortgage and I'll be losing my income when I move.
> > > Would a bank care about my situation considering
> > > October is a ways off?
> > >
> > > Steven
> > >
> > >
> > > --- "O'Day, Lili" <lili at lilioday.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I just want to say that one other possibility
> > for
> > > > those who think they may have an unfair bank
> > loan is
> > > > to have a forensic loan audit done. (google it!)
> > > > One of my clients just had it done on 3 of her
> > > > Washington Mutual loans . Every one of them had
> > > > serious violations, which would have meant she
> > would
> > > > have paid  hundred of thousands of dollars too
> > much
> > > > to the bank..... (all considered predatory
> > loans)
> > > > Now the bank is on the hot seat,   She's been
> > > > offered some really sweet terms on one of the
> > loans.
> > > > already.  ..2.9% +   .  An audit that shows
> > serious
> > > > violations puts the borrower in a position to
> > > > negotiate from a position of strength.
> > > >
> > > > Lili O'Day
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> 5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > > >
> > > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili <5-dayforum-bounces+lili?>
> > <5-dayforum-bounces%2Blili>=lilioday.com@
> > > mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > > On Behalf Of Naji
> > > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:03 PM
> > > > To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
> > > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> > Away
> > > > From Your Home Loan
> > > >
> > > > Definitions
> > > > Principal
> > > > adjective
> > > > [PicExportError]             first or highest in
> > > > rank, importance, value, etc.; chief; foremost.
> > > > noun
> > > > [PicExportError]             a chief or head of
> > an
> > > > organization
> > > > [PicExportError]             something of
> > primary
> > > > importance
> > > > [PicExportError]             Law. a person who
> > > > authorizes another (an agent) to represent him
> > or
> > > > her
> > > > [PicExportError]             Finance. a capital
> > sum,
> > > > the main amount of a loan or investment (as
> > > > distinguished from interest or profit)
> > > > Principle noun
> > > > [PicExportError]             a fundamental
> > > > assumption. The principles of physics dictate
> > that
> > > > you cannot travel faster than the speed of
> > light.
> > > > [PicExportError]             a generally
> > acceptable
> > >  > rule of action or behaviour. moral principles
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > > >
> > > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri <5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri?>
> > <5-dayforum-bounces%2Bnkhouri>=
> > > cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > > On Behalf Of Bill Effros
> > > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:54 PM
> > > > To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> > > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> > Away
> > > > From Your Home Loan
> > > >
> > > > Jo Ann,
> > > >
> > > > Naji's point, and my point is that many homes in
> > > > many places are not worth the current value of
> > the
> > > > principal and probably will never ever be worth
> > the
> > > > value of the principal.
> > > >
> > > > A case in point would be a retirement community
> > in
> > > > Fort Meyers, Fla. where 64 of the 65 homes have
> > been
> > > > foreclosed.  That 65th home owner should get out
> > of
> > > > there as quickly as possible, and before paying
> > any
> > > > more money on the mortgage.  None of those homes
> > > > will ever be lived in again.
> > > >
> > > > While this may seem like an extreme example,
> > there
> > > > are, at the least, 100,000s of thousands of
> > homes
> > > > that fall into this category at this time.  100%
> > of
> > > > their current value will be lost -- the only
> > > > question is who will take the hit.  Let the
> > banks
> > > > and the taxpayers take the rest of the hit.  The
> > > > home buyer has been hurt enough already, don't
> > make
> > > > it worse.
> > > >
> > > > This is not to say payment reduction may not be
> > good
> > > > for some people.
> > > >
> > > > But many on this list would be much better off
> > > > immediately selling their homes either to the
> > high
> > > > bidder in a 5-Day Sale, or to their banks if the
> > > > bank will not accept the current value of the
> > home.
> > > >
> > > > Bill Effros
> > > > Author
> > > >
> > > > PS -- Is it principal or principle...the
> > principal
> > > > is your pal...??
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Jo Ann Kelty wrote:
> > > > Bill
> > > >
> > > > I would agree if the homeowner is trying to
> > > > negotiate with the banks directly.. because they
> > do
> > > > not know all the laws involved that can be used.
> >  We
> > > > nornally get the Modification for a period of 5
> > > > years .. That give the homeowner the opportunity
> > to
> > > > get out from under any financial dificulties
> > that
> > > > they may be in at this time and if we are lucky
> > the
> > > > market may ( or may not ) go up in value.... but
> > it
> > > > will give them some breathing room ..
> > > >
> > > > If they negotiate with a bank ... the bank will
> > > > normally only give them a 6 month reprive... and
> > > > almost 50% will again be behind in thier
> > payments
> === message truncated ===>
> _______________________________________________
> > 5-DayForum mailing list
> > 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> >http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> >
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.comhttp://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>
> ------------------------------
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> _______________________________________________
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From skyhighplanning at gmail.com  Tue Mar 17 07:58:54 2009
From: skyhighplanning at gmail.com (SKY HIGH)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 07:58:54 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
In-Reply-To: <ba6acdee0903162018l75be09c6mb0594e89bc6480e7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ba6acdee0903161400q3f9deb43h9dbb1013801c6792@mail.gmail.com>
	<710179.91365.qm@web30205.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<ba6acdee0903162018l75be09c6mb0594e89bc6480e7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1015251B-6461-4AE8-90C1-8A7A8FBB40CA@gmail.com>

Can you explain how you go about trying to convince the bank to modify  
& reduce principal?

Carlos A. Chica
Sky High Planning, Inc.
7380 Sand Lake Rd.  #500
Orlando, FL  32819
Office:  (407) 352-3220
Fax:      (407) 738-4816
Cell:      (646) 552-0107
skyhighplanning at gmail.com

Coming Soon:

www. SKYHIGHPLANNING .com

"It's kind of Fun to do the Impossible"

  -  Walt Disney

On Mar 16, 2009, at 11:18 PM, Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com>  
wrote:

> I would  never suggest to anyone to stop making payments... there is  
> a liability to anyone that does that.... even an attorney would not  
> suggest that you not make your payment if you can... that has to be  
> your choice...
>
> Jo Ann
>
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Steven Herbert <sterbert at yahoo.com>  
> wrote:
>
> Bill suggests I stop making payments.
>
> Would THAT speed the process along? Or am I just
> asking for trouble since I could be making them (it
> just doesn't make sense to, according to Bill)?
>
> Steven
> Washington HomeOwner
>
>
> --- Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Steven
> >
> > In most cases the bank will not negotiate with you
> > untill you have missed
> > payments.. but you can get a loan modification it
> > will just take longer
> > since those that are behind are normally the first
> > to be considered.
> >
> > If you want to go down that path you may want to
> > start your process soon.
> >
> > Jo Ann
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Steven Herbert
> > <sterbert at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > I've toyed with the idea of walking away (or
> > > threatening to at least). I bought at $257K and
> > owe
> > > $248K after 3.5 yrs. I'm not sure if I'm
> > underwater or
> > > not (probably even w/sealevel).
> > >
> > > I haven't missed payments, I'm not struggling to
> > make
> > > them. But we're a military family and would be
> > moving
> > > this October. Renting won't pay near the $1800
> > > mortgage and I'll be losing my income when I move.
> > > Would a bank care about my situation considering
> > > October is a ways off?
> > >
> > > Steven
> > >
> > >
> > > --- "O'Day, Lili" <lili at lilioday.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I just want to say that one other possibility
> > for
> > > > those who think they may have an unfair bank
> > loan is
> > > > to have a forensic loan audit done. (google it!)
> > > > One of my clients just had it done on 3 of her
> > > > Washington Mutual loans . Every one of them had
> > > > serious violations, which would have meant she
> > would
> > > > have paid  hundred of thousands of dollars too
> > much
> > > > to the bank..... (all considered predatory
> > loans)
> > > > Now the bank is on the hot seat,   She's been
> > > > offered some really sweet terms on one of the
> > loans.
> > > > already.  ..2.9% +   .  An audit that shows
> > serious
> > > > violations puts the borrower in a position to
> > > > negotiate from a position of strength.
> > > >
> > > > Lili O'Day
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> 5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > > >
> > > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili
> > <5-dayforum-bounces%2Blili>=lilioday.com@
> > > mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > > On Behalf Of Naji
> > > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:03 PM
> > > > To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
> > > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> > Away
> > > > From Your Home Loan
> > > >
> > > > Definitions
> > > > Principal
> > > > adjective
> > > > [PicExportError]             first or highest in
> > > > rank, importance, value, etc.; chief; foremost.
> > > > noun
> > > > [PicExportError]             a chief or head of
> > an
> > > > organization
> > > > [PicExportError]             something of
> > primary
> > > > importance
> > > > [PicExportError]             Law. a person who
> > > > authorizes another (an agent) to represent him
> > or
> > > > her
> > > > [PicExportError]             Finance. a capital
> > sum,
> > > > the main amount of a loan or investment (as
> > > > distinguished from interest or profit)
> > > > Principle noun
> > > > [PicExportError]             a fundamental
> > > > assumption. The principles of physics dictate
> > that
> > > > you cannot travel faster than the speed of
> > light.
> > > > [PicExportError]             a generally
> > acceptable
> > >  > rule of action or behaviour. moral principles
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > > >
> > > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri
> > <5-dayforum-bounces%2Bnkhouri>=
> > > cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > > On Behalf Of Bill Effros
> > > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:54 PM
> > > > To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> > > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> > Away
> > > > From Your Home Loan
> > > >
> > > > Jo Ann,
> > > >
> > > > Naji's point, and my point is that many homes in
> > > > many places are not worth the current value of
> > the
> > > > principal and probably will never ever be worth
> > the
> > > > value of the principal.
> > > >
> > > > A case in point would be a retirement community
> > in
> > > > Fort Meyers, Fla. where 64 of the 65 homes have
> > been
> > > > foreclosed.  That 65th home owner should get out
> > of
> > > > there as quickly as possible, and before paying
> > any
> > > > more money on the mortgage.  None of those homes
> > > > will ever be lived in again.
> > > >
> > > > While this may seem like an extreme example,
> > there
> > > > are, at the least, 100,000s of thousands of
> > homes
> > > > that fall into this category at this time.  100%
> > of
> > > > their current value will be lost -- the only
> > > > question is who will take the hit.  Let the
> > banks
> > > > and the taxpayers take the rest of the hit.  The
> > > > home buyer has been hurt enough already, don't
> > make
> > > > it worse.
> > > >
> > > > This is not to say payment reduction may not be
> > good
> > > > for some people.
> > > >
> > > > But many on this list would be much better off
> > > > immediately selling their homes either to the
> > high
> > > > bidder in a 5-Day Sale, or to their banks if the
> > > > bank will not accept the current value of the
> > home.
> > > >
> > > > Bill Effros
> > > > Author
> > > >
> > > > PS -- Is it principal or principle...the
> > principal
> > > > is your pal...??
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Jo Ann Kelty wrote:
> > > > Bill
> > > >
> > > > I would agree if the homeowner is trying to
> > > > negotiate with the banks directly.. because they
> > do
> > > > not know all the laws involved that can be used.
> >  We
> > > > nornally get the Modification for a period of 5
> > > > years .. That give the homeowner the opportunity
> > to
> > > > get out from under any financial dificulties
> > that
> > > > they may be in at this time and if we are lucky
> > the
> > > > market may ( or may not ) go up in value.... but
> > it
> > > > will give them some breathing room ..
> > > >
> > > > If they negotiate with a bank ... the bank will
> > > > normally only give them a 6 month reprive... and
> > > > almost 50% will again be behind in thier
> > payments
> === message truncated ===>
> _______________________________________________
> > 5-DayForum mailing list
> > 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> >
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> >
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
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From joannkelty8 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 17 08:07:06 2009
From: joannkelty8 at gmail.com (Jo Ann Kelty)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 08:07:06 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
In-Reply-To: <1015251B-6461-4AE8-90C1-8A7A8FBB40CA@gmail.com>
References: <ba6acdee0903161400q3f9deb43h9dbb1013801c6792@mail.gmail.com>
	<710179.91365.qm@web30205.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<ba6acdee0903162018l75be09c6mb0594e89bc6480e7@mail.gmail.com>
	<1015251B-6461-4AE8-90C1-8A7A8FBB40CA@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ba6acdee0903170507x630fee66uccd409af7900fa74@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Carlos

I do not do the negotiation.. I process the paperwork.. and send it to the
attorneys and negotiators..

The paperwork is very similar to a short sale..with the exception that you
need to show that you have the income to make the lower payments once they
are negotiated.

Jo Ann

2009/3/17 SKY HIGH <skyhighplanning at gmail.com>

>  Can you explain how you go about trying to convince the bank to modify &
> reduce principal?
>
> Carlos A. Chica Sky High Planning, Inc.
> 7380 Sand Lake Rd.  #500
> Orlando, FL  32819
> Office:  (407) 352-3220
> Fax:      (407) 738-4816
> Cell:      (646) 552-0107
> skyhighplanning at gmail.com
>
> Coming Soon:
>
> www. SKYHIGHPLANNING .com
>
> "It's kind of Fun to do the Impossible"
>
>  -  Walt Disney
>
> On Mar 16, 2009, at 11:18 PM, Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>   I would  never suggest to anyone to stop making payments... there is a
> liability to anyone that does that.... even an attorney would not suggest
> that you not make your payment if you can... that has to be your choice...
>
> Jo Ann
>
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Steven Herbert <sterbert at yahoo.com>wrote:
>
>>
>> Bill suggests I stop making payments.
>>
>> Would THAT speed the process along? Or am I just
>> asking for trouble since I could be making them (it
>> just doesn't make sense to, according to Bill)?
>>
>> Steven
>> Washington HomeOwner
>>
>>
>> --- Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Steven
>> >
>> > In most cases the bank will not negotiate with you
>> > untill you have missed
>> > payments.. but you can get a loan modification it
>> > will just take longer
>> > since those that are behind are normally the first
>> > to be considered.
>> >
>> > If you want to go down that path you may want to
>> > start your process soon.
>> >
>> > Jo Ann
>> >
>> > On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Steven Herbert
>> > <sterbert at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > > I've toyed with the idea of walking away (or
>> > > threatening to at least). I bought at $257K and
>> > owe
>> > > $248K after 3.5 yrs. I'm not sure if I'm
>> > underwater or
>> > > not (probably even w/sealevel).
>> > >
>> > > I haven't missed payments, I'm not struggling to
>> > make
>> > > them. But we're a military family and would be
>> > moving
>> > > this October. Renting won't pay near the $1800
>> > > mortgage and I'll be losing my income when I move.
>> > > Would a bank care about my situation considering
>> > > October is a ways off?
>> > >
>> > > Steven
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --- "O'Day, Lili" <lili at lilioday.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > I just want to say that one other possibility
>> > for
>> > > > those who think they may have an unfair bank
>> > loan is
>> > > > to have a forensic loan audit done. (google it!)
>> > > > One of my clients just had it done on 3 of her
>> > > > Washington Mutual loans . Every one of them had
>> > > > serious violations, which would have meant she
>> > would
>> > > > have paid  hundred of thousands of dollars too
>> > much
>> > > > to the bank..... (all considered predatory
>> > loans)
>> > > > Now the bank is on the hot seat,   She's been
>> > > > offered some really sweet terms on one of the
>> > loans.
>> > > > already.  ..2.9% +   .  An audit that shows
>> > serious
>> > > > violations puts the borrower in a position to
>> > > > negotiate from a position of strength.
>> > > >
>> > > > Lili O'Day
>> > > >
>> > > > ________________________________
>> > > > From:
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> 5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>> > > >
>> > > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili <5-dayforum-bounces%2Blili>
>> > <5-dayforum-bounces%2Blili>=lilioday.com@
>>  > > mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
>> > > > On Behalf Of Naji
>> > > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:03 PM
>> > > > To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
>> > > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
>> > Away
>> > > > From Your Home Loan
>> > > >
>> > > > Definitions
>> > > > Principal
>> > > > adjective
>> > > > [PicExportError]             first or highest in
>> > > > rank, importance, value, etc.; chief; foremost.
>> > > > noun
>> > > > [PicExportError]             a chief or head of
>> > an
>> > > > organization
>> > > > [PicExportError]             something of
>> > primary
>> > > > importance
>> > > > [PicExportError]             Law. a person who
>> > > > authorizes another (an agent) to represent him
>> > or
>> > > > her
>> > > > [PicExportError]             Finance. a capital
>> > sum,
>> > > > the main amount of a loan or investment (as
>> > > > distinguished from interest or profit)
>> > > > Principle noun
>> > > > [PicExportError]             a fundamental
>> > > > assumption. The principles of physics dictate
>> > that
>> > > > you cannot travel faster than the speed of
>> > light.
>> > > > [PicExportError]             a generally
>> > acceptable
>> > >  > rule of action or behaviour. moral principles
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > ________________________________
>> > > > From:
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com@
>> mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>> > > >
>> > > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri <5-dayforum-bounces%2Bnkhouri>
>> > <5-dayforum-bounces%2Bnkhouri>=
>>  > > cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
>> > > > On Behalf Of Bill Effros
>> > > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:54 PM
>> > > > To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
>> > > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
>> > Away
>> > > > From Your Home Loan
>> > > >
>> > > > Jo Ann,
>> > > >
>> > > > Naji's point, and my point is that many homes in
>> > > > many places are not worth the current value of
>> > the
>> > > > principal and probably will never ever be worth
>> > the
>> > > > value of the principal.
>> > > >
>> > > > A case in point would be a retirement community
>> > in
>> > > > Fort Meyers, Fla. where 64 of the 65 homes have
>> > been
>> > > > foreclosed.  That 65th home owner should get out
>> > of
>> > > > there as quickly as possible, and before paying
>> > any
>> > > > more money on the mortgage.  None of those homes
>> > > > will ever be lived in again.
>> > > >
>> > > > While this may seem like an extreme example,
>> > there
>> > > > are, at the least, 100,000s of thousands of
>> > homes
>> > > > that fall into this category at this time.  100%
>> > of
>> > > > their current value will be lost -- the only
>> > > > question is who will take the hit.  Let the
>> > banks
>> > > > and the taxpayers take the rest of the hit.  The
>> > > > home buyer has been hurt enough already, don't
>> > make
>> > > > it worse.
>> > > >
>> > > > This is not to say payment reduction may not be
>> > good
>> > > > for some people.
>> > > >
>> > > > But many on this list would be much better off
>> > > > immediately selling their homes either to the
>> > high
>> > > > bidder in a 5-Day Sale, or to their banks if the
>> > > > bank will not accept the current value of the
>> > home.
>> > > >
>> > > > Bill Effros
>> > > > Author
>> > > >
>> > > > PS -- Is it principal or principle...the
>> > principal
>> > > > is your pal...??
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Jo Ann Kelty wrote:
>> > > > Bill
>> > > >
>> > > > I would agree if the homeowner is trying to
>> > > > negotiate with the banks directly.. because they
>> > do
>> > > > not know all the laws involved that can be used.
>> >  We
>> > > > nornally get the Modification for a period of 5
>> > > > years .. That give the homeowner the opportunity
>> > to
>> > > > get out from under any financial dificulties
>> > that
>> > > > they may be in at this time and if we are lucky
>> > the
>> > > > market may ( or may not ) go up in value.... but
>> > it
>> > > > will give them some breathing room ..
>> > > >
>> > > > If they negotiate with a bank ... the bank will
>> > > > normally only give them a 6 month reprive... and
>> > > > almost 50% will again be behind in thier
>> > payments
>>  === message truncated ===>
>> _______________________________________________
>> > 5-DayForum mailing list
>> > 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>> >
>>
>> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> 5-DayForum mailing list
>> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>>
>> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>
>
>  _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>
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From skyhighplanning at gmail.com  Tue Mar 17 08:13:48 2009
From: skyhighplanning at gmail.com (SKY HIGH)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 08:13:48 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
In-Reply-To: <ba6acdee0903170507x630fee66uccd409af7900fa74@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ba6acdee0903161400q3f9deb43h9dbb1013801c6792@mail.gmail.com>
	<710179.91365.qm@web30205.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<ba6acdee0903162018l75be09c6mb0594e89bc6480e7@mail.gmail.com>
	<1015251B-6461-4AE8-90C1-8A7A8FBB40CA@gmail.com>
	<ba6acdee0903170507x630fee66uccd409af7900fa74@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9D49BC49-4833-430A-8C4F-17F73394750A@gmail.com>

I understand.  If you could find out any tips for handling the  
modification process it would greatly be appreciated.  Thanks

Carlos A. Chica
Sky High Planning, Inc.
7380 Sand Lake Rd.  #500
Orlando, FL  32819
Office:  (407) 352-3220
Fax:      (407) 738-4816
Cell:      (646) 552-0107
skyhighplanning at gmail.com

Coming Soon:

www. SKYHIGHPLANNING .com

"It's kind of Fun to do the Impossible"

  -  Walt Disney

On Mar 17, 2009, at 8:07 AM, Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Carlos
>
> I do not do the negotiation.. I process the paperwork.. and send it  
> to the attorneys and negotiators..
>
> The paperwork is very similar to a short sale..with the exception  
> that you need to show that you have the income to make the lower  
> payments once they are negotiated.
>
> Jo Ann
>
> 2009/3/17 SKY HIGH <skyhighplanning at gmail.com>
> Can you explain how you go about trying to convince the bank to  
> modify & reduce principal?
>
> Carlos A. Chica
> Sky High Planning, Inc.
> 7380 Sand Lake Rd.  #500
> Orlando, FL  32819
> Office:  (407) 352-3220
> Fax:      (407) 738-4816
> Cell:      (646) 552-0107
> skyhighplanning at gmail.com
>
> Coming Soon:
>
> www. SKYHIGHPLANNING .com
>
> "It's kind of Fun to do the Impossible"
>
>  -  Walt Disney
>
> On Mar 16, 2009, at 11:18 PM, Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com>  
> wrote:
>
>> I would  never suggest to anyone to stop making payments... there  
>> is a liability to anyone that does that.... even an attorney would  
>> not suggest that you not make your payment if you can... that has  
>> to be your choice...
>>
>> Jo Ann
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Steven Herbert  
>> <sterbert at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> Bill suggests I stop making payments.
>>
>> Would THAT speed the process along? Or am I just
>> asking for trouble since I could be making them (it
>> just doesn't make sense to, according to Bill)?
>>
>> Steven
>> Washington HomeOwner
>>
>>
>> --- Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Steven
>> >
>> > In most cases the bank will not negotiate with you
>> > untill you have missed
>> > payments.. but you can get a loan modification it
>> > will just take longer
>> > since those that are behind are normally the first
>> > to be considered.
>> >
>> > If you want to go down that path you may want to
>> > start your process soon.
>> >
>> > Jo Ann
>> >
>> > On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Steven Herbert
>> > <sterbert at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > > I've toyed with the idea of walking away (or
>> > > threatening to at least). I bought at $257K and
>> > owe
>> > > $248K after 3.5 yrs. I'm not sure if I'm
>> > underwater or
>> > > not (probably even w/sealevel).
>> > >
>> > > I haven't missed payments, I'm not struggling to
>> > make
>> > > them. But we're a military family and would be
>> > moving
>> > > this October. Renting won't pay near the $1800
>> > > mortgage and I'll be losing my income when I move.
>> > > Would a bank care about my situation considering
>> > > October is a ways off?
>> > >
>> > > Steven
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --- "O'Day, Lili" <lili at lilioday.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > I just want to say that one other possibility
>> > for
>> > > > those who think they may have an unfair bank
>> > loan is
>> > > > to have a forensic loan audit done. (google it!)
>> > > > One of my clients just had it done on 3 of her
>> > > > Washington Mutual loans . Every one of them had
>> > > > serious violations, which would have meant she
>> > would
>> > > > have paid  hundred of thousands of dollars too
>> > much
>> > > > to the bank..... (all considered predatory
>> > loans)
>> > > > Now the bank is on the hot seat,   She's been
>> > > > offered some really sweet terms on one of the
>> > loans.
>> > > > already.  ..2.9% +   .  An audit that shows
>> > serious
>> > > > violations puts the borrower in a position to
>> > > > negotiate from a position of strength.
>> > > >
>> > > > Lili O'Day
>> > > >
>> > > > ________________________________
>> > > > From:
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> 5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>> > > >
>> > > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili
>> > <5-dayforum-bounces%2Blili>=lilioday.com@
>> > > mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
>> > > > On Behalf Of Naji
>> > > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:03 PM
>> > > > To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
>> > > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
>> > Away
>> > > > From Your Home Loan
>> > > >
>> > > > Definitions
>> > > > Principal
>> > > > adjective
>> > > > [PicExportError]             first or highest in
>> > > > rank, importance, value, etc.; chief; foremost.
>> > > > noun
>> > > > [PicExportError]             a chief or head of
>> > an
>> > > > organization
>> > > > [PicExportError]             something of
>> > primary
>> > > > importance
>> > > > [PicExportError]             Law. a person who
>> > > > authorizes another (an agent) to represent him
>> > or
>> > > > her
>> > > > [PicExportError]             Finance. a capital
>> > sum,
>> > > > the main amount of a loan or investment (as
>> > > > distinguished from interest or profit)
>> > > > Principle noun
>> > > > [PicExportError]             a fundamental
>> > > > assumption. The principles of physics dictate
>> > that
>> > > > you cannot travel faster than the speed of
>> > light.
>> > > > [PicExportError]             a generally
>> > acceptable
>> > >  > rule of action or behaviour. moral principles
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > ________________________________
>> > > > From:
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>> > > >
>> > > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri
>> > <5-dayforum-bounces%2Bnkhouri>=
>> > > cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
>> > > > On Behalf Of Bill Effros
>> > > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:54 PM
>> > > > To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
>> > > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
>> > Away
>> > > > From Your Home Loan
>> > > >
>> > > > Jo Ann,
>> > > >
>> > > > Naji's point, and my point is that many homes in
>> > > > many places are not worth the current value of
>> > the
>> > > > principal and probably will never ever be worth
>> > the
>> > > > value of the principal.
>> > > >
>> > > > A case in point would be a retirement community
>> > in
>> > > > Fort Meyers, Fla. where 64 of the 65 homes have
>> > been
>> > > > foreclosed.  That 65th home owner should get out
>> > of
>> > > > there as quickly as possible, and before paying
>> > any
>> > > > more money on the mortgage.  None of those homes
>> > > > will ever be lived in again.
>> > > >
>> > > > While this may seem like an extreme example,
>> > there
>> > > > are, at the least, 100,000s of thousands of
>> > homes
>> > > > that fall into this category at this time.  100%
>> > of
>> > > > their current value will be lost -- the only
>> > > > question is who will take the hit.  Let the
>> > banks
>> > > > and the taxpayers take the rest of the hit.  The
>> > > > home buyer has been hurt enough already, don't
>> > make
>> > > > it worse.
>> > > >
>> > > > This is not to say payment reduction may not be
>> > good
>> > > > for some people.
>> > > >
>> > > > But many on this list would be much better off
>> > > > immediately selling their homes either to the
>> > high
>> > > > bidder in a 5-Day Sale, or to their banks if the
>> > > > bank will not accept the current value of the
>> > home.
>> > > >
>> > > > Bill Effros
>> > > > Author
>> > > >
>> > > > PS -- Is it principal or principle...the
>> > principal
>> > > > is your pal...??
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Jo Ann Kelty wrote:
>> > > > Bill
>> > > >
>> > > > I would agree if the homeowner is trying to
>> > > > negotiate with the banks directly.. because they
>> > do
>> > > > not know all the laws involved that can be used.
>> >  We
>> > > > nornally get the Modification for a period of 5
>> > > > years .. That give the homeowner the opportunity
>> > to
>> > > > get out from under any financial dificulties
>> > that
>> > > > they may be in at this time and if we are lucky
>> > the
>> > > > market may ( or may not ) go up in value.... but
>> > it
>> > > > will give them some breathing room ..
>> > > >
>> > > > If they negotiate with a bank ... the bank will
>> > > > normally only give them a 6 month reprive... and
>> > > > almost 50% will again be behind in thier
>> > payments
>> === message truncated ===>
>> _______________________________________________
>> > 5-DayForum mailing list
>> > 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>> >
>> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> 5-DayForum mailing list
>> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> 5-DayForum mailing list
>> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
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From bill at effros.com  Tue Mar 17 09:15:25 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:15:25 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Please Indicate Your Location
In-Reply-To: <ba6acdee0903162022ma372d15h286cb1e02703c931@mail.gmail.com>
References: <710179.91365.qm@web30205.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<8CB74A797FEB10A-E84-1540@webmail-de21.sysops.aol.com>
	<ba6acdee0903162022ma372d15h286cb1e02703c931@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49BFA26D.9060400@effros.com>

Let's try putting our location after our names.

The fact that Jo Ann and Naji are in Florida is significant -- things 
are happening a year earlier there than in some other places.

If they are reducing principal in Florida, they will start doing it 
elsewhere as well.

Bill Effros
Greenwich, Ct.



Jo Ann Kelty wrote:
> Conrad
>  
> You are correct regarding the principle... however here in Florida I 
> am seeing the increase in the reduction of principle... last week we 
> had a client that the negotiators were able to reduce the principle 
> from apx 300k to 150k  and we are seeing more and more of this 
> happening here.. but  it is case by case and there are no guarentees..
>  
> Jo Ann
>
> 2009/3/16 <lbicon at aol.com <mailto:lbicon at aol.com>>
>
>     Steven,
>
>     You should call your lender and give them a reason that you are
>     "struggling" to make your payments. I have had about six clients
>     call their lenders and get either "steamlined" refionances or loan
>     payment mods. If you are looking for a significant reduction in
>     your principle it isn't out there yet.
>
>     Conrad Kuiken, Loan Officer,short sale negociator,realtor,investor
>
>
>
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: Steven Herbert <sterbert at yahoo.com <mailto:sterbert at yahoo.com>>
>     To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
>     <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>     <mailto:5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>>
>     Sent: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 2:17 pm
>     Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
>
>
>     Bill suggests I stop making payments.
>
>     Would THAT speed the process along? Or am I just
>     asking for trouble since I could be making them (it
>     just doesn't make sense to, according to Bill)?
>
>     Steven 
>     Washington HomeOwner
>
>
>     --- Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com <mailto:joannkelty8 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     > Hi Steven
>     > 
>     > In most cases the bank will not negotiate with you
>     > untill you have missed
>     > payments.. but you can get a loan modification it
>     > will just take longer
>     > since those that are behind are normally the first
>     > to be considered.
>     > 
>     > If you want to go down that path you may want to
>     > start your process soon.
>     > 
>     > Jo Ann
>     > 
>     > On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Steven Herbert
>     > <sterbert at yahoo.com <mailto:sterbert at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>     > 
>     > >
>     > > I've toyed with the idea of walking away (or
>     > > threatening to at least). I bought at $257K and
>     > owe
>     > > $248K after 3.5 yrs. I'm not sure if I'm
>     > underwater or
>     > > not (probably even w/sealevel).
>     > >
>     > > I haven't missed payments, I'm not struggling to
>     > make
>     > > them. But we're a military family and would be
>     > moving
>     > > this October. Renting won't pay near the $1800
>     > > mortgage and I'll be losing my income when I move.
>     > > Would a bank care about my situation considering
>     > > October is a ways off?
>     > >
>     > > Steven
>     > >
>     > >
>     > > --- "O'Day, Lili" <lili at lilioday.com <mailto:lili at lilioday.com>> wrote:
>     > >
>     > > > I just want to say that one other possibility
>     > for
>     > > > those who think they may have an unfair bank
>     > loan is
>     > > > to have a forensic loan audit done. (google it!)
>     > > > One of my clients just had it done on 3 of her
>     > > > Washington Mutual loans . Every one of them had
>     > > > serious violations, which would have meant she
>     > would
>     > > > have paid  hundred of thousands of dollars too
>     > much
>     > > > to the bank..... (all considered predatory
>     > loans)
>     > > > Now the bank is on the hot seat,   She's been
>     > > > offered some really sweet terms on one of the
>     > loans.
>     > > > already.  ..2.9% +   .  An audit that shows
>     > serious
>     > > > violations puts the borrower in a position to
>     > > > negotiate from a position of strength.
>     > > >
>     > > > Lili O'Day
>     > > >
>     > > > ________________________________
>     > > > From:
>     > > >
>     > >
>     >
>     5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <mailto:lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>     > > >
>     > > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili <mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili?>
>     > <5-dayforum-bounces%2Blili>=lilioday.com <http://lilioday.com/>@
>     > > mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/>]
>     > > > On Behalf Of Naji
>     > > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:03 PM
>     > > > To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
>     > > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
>     > Away
>     > > > From Your Home Loan
>     > > >
>     > > > Definitions
>     > > > Principal
>     > > > adjective
>     > > > [PicExportError]             first or highest in
>     > > > rank, importance, value, etc.; chief; foremost.
>     > > > noun
>     > > > [PicExportError]             a chief or head of
>     > an
>     > > > organization
>     > > > [PicExportError]             something of
>     > primary
>     > > > importance
>     > > > [PicExportError]             Law. a person who
>     > > > authorizes another (an agent) to represent him
>     > or
>     > > > her
>     > > > [PicExportError]             Finance. a capital
>     > sum,
>     > > > the main amount of a loan or investment (as
>     > > > distinguished from interest or profit)
>     > > > Principle noun
>     > > > [PicExportError]             a fundamental
>     > > > assumption. The principles of physics dictate
>     > that
>     > > > you cannot travel faster than the speed of
>     > light.
>     > > > [PicExportError]             a generally
>     > acceptable
>     > >  > rule of action or behaviour. moral principles
>     > > >
>     > > >
>     > > > ________________________________
>     > > > From:
>     > > >
>     > >
>     >
>     5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <mailto:cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>     > > >
>     > > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri <mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri?>
>     > <5-dayforum-bounces%2Bnkhouri>=
>     > > cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <mailto:cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>]
>     > > > On Behalf Of Bill Effros
>     > > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:54 PM
>     > > > To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
>     > > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
>     > Away
>     > > > From Your Home Loan
>     > > >
>     > > > Jo Ann,
>     > > >
>     > > > Naji's point, and my point is that many homes in
>     > > > many places are not worth the current value of
>     > the
>     > > > principal and probably will never ever be worth
>     > the
>     > > > value of the principal.
>     > > >
>     > > > A case in point would be a retirement community
>     > in
>     > > > Fort Meyers, Fla. where 64 of the 65 homes have
>     > been
>     > > > foreclosed.  That 65th home owner should get out
>     > of
>     > > > there as quickly as possible, and before paying
>     > any
>     > > > more money on the mortgage.  None of those homes
>     > > > will ever be lived in again.
>     > > >
>     > > > While this may seem like an extreme example,
>     > there
>     > > > are, at the least, 100,000s of thousands of
>     > homes
>     > > > that fall into this category at this time.  100%
>     > of
>     > > > their current value will be lost -- the only
>     > > > question is who will take the hit.  Let the
>     > banks
>     > > > and the taxpayers take the rest of the hit.  The
>     > > > home buyer has been hurt enough already, don't
>     > make
>     > > > it worse.
>     > > >
>     > > > This is not to say payment reduction may not be
>     > good
>     > > > for some people.
>     > > >
>     > > > But many on this list would be much better off
>     > > > immediately selling their homes either to the
>     > high
>     > > > bidder in a 5-Day Sale, or to their banks if the
>     > > > bank will not accept the current value of the
>     > home.
>     > > >
>     > > > Bill Effros
>     > > > Author
>     > > >
>     > > > PS -- Is it principal or principle...the
>     > principal
>     > > > is your pal...??
>     > > >
>     > > >
>     > > >
>     > > > Jo Ann Kelty wrote:
>     > > > Bill
>     > > >
>     > > > I would agree if the homeowner is trying to
>     > > > negotiate with the banks directly.. because they
>     > do
>     > > > not know all the laws involved that can be used.
>     >  We
>     > > > nornally get the Modification for a period of 5
>     > > > years .. That give the homeowner the opportunity
>     > to
>     > > > get out from under any financial dificulties
>     > that
>     > > > they may be in at this time and if we are lucky
>     > the
>     > > > market may ( or may not ) go up in value.... but
>     > it
>     > > > will give them some breathing room ..
>     > > >
>     > > > If they negotiate with a bank ... the bank will
>     > > > normally only give them a 6 month reprive... and
>     > > > almost 50% will again be behind in thier
>     > payments 
>     === message truncated ===>
>     _______________________________________________
>     > 5-DayForum mailing list
>     > 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>     >
>     http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>     > 
>
>
>
>           
>     _______________________________________________
>     5-DayForum mailing list
>     5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>     http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     Job Hunting? Start with the companies that posted job openings
>     this week
>     <http://jobs.aol.com/gallery/5-companies?ncid=emlweuscare00000002>.
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     5-DayForum mailing list
>     5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>     <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
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>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
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>   
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From tomwilson64 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 17 09:33:19 2009
From: tomwilson64 at yahoo.com (Tom Wilson)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 08:33:19 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] Please Indicate Your Location
In-Reply-To: <49BFA26D.9060400@effros.com>
References: <710179.91365.qm@web30205.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<8CB74A797FEB10A-E84-1540@webmail-de21.sysops.aol.com>	<ba6acdee0903162022ma372d15h286cb1e02703c931@mail.gmail.com>
	<49BFA26D.9060400@effros.com>
Message-ID: <4a9501c9a704$f04b3c20$d0e1b460$@com>

I'm beyond thankful to be in the Arlington-Fort Worth area of Texas where
two local cities actually had sales tax gains last month, home sales have
held, if slipped a tiny bit and we have the added bonus of being on the very
early years of the Barnett Shale one of the richest natural gas reserves in
country and nearly every home owner will get bonus and royalties from it in
the coming years.  I see construction going on around me including the new
Dallas Cowboys $1.1 billion stadium.  Housing stock is plentiful here though
fortunately in our HOA on a little lake, of the 132 homes in our HOA, four
are for sale and none foreclosed on.  That rate for sake is maybe 1-2 houses
more than usual for a 6-month period.  I do have plenty of friends out of
work though and working in corporate retail, I know mine may only be a bad
quarter away.

 

Keeping my fingers crossed that our fortunes remain and the rest of the
country finds this same level some time soon.  It will be our turn another
day for some other reason, but if you would like to move and can handle
100-degree days in August and no ocean, this is a good area to be in.

 

From:
5-dayforum-bounces+tomwilson64=yahoo.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.co
m
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+tomwilson64=yahoo.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein
5days.com] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 8:15 AM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: [5-DayForum] Please Indicate Your Location

 

Let's try putting our location after our names.

The fact that Jo Ann and Naji are in Florida is significant -- things are
happening a year earlier there than in some other places.

If they are reducing principal in Florida, they will start doing it
elsewhere as well.

Bill Effros
Greenwich, Ct.



Jo Ann Kelty wrote: 

Conrad 

 

You are correct regarding the principle... however here in Florida I am
seeing the increase in the reduction of principle... last week we had a
client that the negotiators were able to reduce the principle from apx 300k
to 150k  and we are seeing more and more of this happening here.. but  it is
case by case and there are no guarentees..

 

Jo Ann

2009/3/16 <lbicon at aol.com>

Steven,

You should call your lender and give them a reason that you are "struggling"
to make your payments. I have had about six clients call their lenders and
get either "steamlined" refionances or loan payment mods. If you are looking
for a significant reduction in your principle it isn't out there yet.

Conrad Kuiken, Loan Officer,short sale negociator,realtor,investor 




-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Herbert <sterbert at yahoo.com>
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
<5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Sent: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 2:17 pm
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan

 
Bill suggests I stop making payments.
 
Would THAT speed the process along? Or am I just
asking for trouble since I could be making them (it
just doesn't make sense to, according to Bill)?
 
Steven 
Washington HomeOwner
 
 
--- Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com> wrote:
 
> Hi Steven
> 
> In most cases the bank will not negotiate with you
> untill you have missed
> payments.. but you can get a loan modification it
> will just take longer
> since those that are behind are normally the first
> to be considered.
> 
> If you want to go down that path you may want to
> start your process soon.
> 
> Jo Ann
> 
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Steven Herbert
> <sterbert at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> > I've toyed with the idea of walking away (or
> > threatening to at least). I bought at $257K and
> owe
> > $248K after 3.5 yrs. I'm not sure if I'm
> underwater or
> > not (probably even w/sealevel).
> >
> > I haven't missed payments, I'm not struggling to
> make
> > them. But we're a military family and would be
> moving
> > this October. Renting won't pay near the $1800
> > mortgage and I'll be losing my income when I move.
> > Would a bank care about my situation considering
> > October is a ways off?
> >
> > Steven
> >
> >
> > --- "O'Day, Lili" <lili at lilioday.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I just want to say that one other possibility
> for
> > > those who think they may have an unfair bank
> loan is
> > > to have a forensic loan audit done. (google it!)
> > > One of my clients just had it done on 3 of her
> > > Washington Mutual loans . Every one of them had
> > > serious violations, which would have meant she
> would
> > > have paid  hundred of thousands of dollars too
> much
> > > to the bank..... (all considered predatory
> loans)
> > > Now the bank is on the hot seat,   She's been
> > > offered some really sweet terms on one of the
> loans.
> > > already.  ..2.9% +   .  An audit that shows
> serious
> > > violations puts the borrower in a position to
> > > negotiate from a position of strength.
> > >
> > > Lili O'Day
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
> 
5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili <mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili?> 
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Blili>=lilioday.com <http://lilioday.com/> @
> > mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
<http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/> ]
> > > On Behalf Of Naji
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:03 PM
> > > To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Definitions
> > > Principal
> > > adjective
> > > [PicExportError]             first or highest in
> > > rank, importance, value, etc.; chief; foremost.
> > > noun
> > > [PicExportError]             a chief or head of
> an
> > > organization
> > > [PicExportError]             something of
> primary
> > > importance
> > > [PicExportError]             Law. a person who
> > > authorizes another (an agent) to represent him
> or
> > > her
> > > [PicExportError]             Finance. a capital
> sum,
> > > the main amount of a loan or investment (as
> > > distinguished from interest or profit)
> > > Principle noun
> > > [PicExportError]             a fundamental
> > > assumption. The principles of physics dictate
> that
> > > you cannot travel faster than the speed of
> light.
> > > [PicExportError]             a generally
> acceptable
> >  > rule of action or behaviour. moral principles
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
> 
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri <mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri?> 
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Bnkhouri>=
> > cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Bill Effros
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:54 PM
> > > To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Jo Ann,
> > >
> > > Naji's point, and my point is that many homes in
> > > many places are not worth the current value of
> the
> > > principal and probably will never ever be worth
> the
> > > value of the principal.
> > >
> > > A case in point would be a retirement community
> in
> > > Fort Meyers, Fla. where 64 of the 65 homes have
> been
> > > foreclosed.  That 65th home owner should get out
> of
> > > there as quickly as possible, and before paying
> any
> > > more money on the mortgage.  None of those homes
> > > will ever be lived in again.
> > >
> > > While this may seem like an extreme example,
> there
> > > are, at the least, 100,000s of thousands of
> homes
> > > that fall into this category at this time.  100%
> of
> > > their current value will be lost -- the only
> > > question is who will take the hit.  Let the
> banks
> > > and the taxpayers take the rest of the hit.  The
> > > home buyer has been hurt enough already, don't
> make
> > > it worse.
> > >
> > > This is not to say payment reduction may not be
> good
> > > for some people.
> > >
> > > But many on this list would be much better off
> > > immediately selling their homes either to the
> high
> > > bidder in a 5-Day Sale, or to their banks if the
> > > bank will not accept the current value of the
> home.
> > >
> > > Bill Effros
> > > Author
> > >
> > > PS -- Is it principal or principle...the
> principal
> > > is your pal...??
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jo Ann Kelty wrote:
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > I would agree if the homeowner is trying to
> > > negotiate with the banks directly.. because they
> do
> > > not know all the laws involved that can be used.
>  We
> > > nornally get the Modification for a period of 5
> > > years .. That give the homeowner the opportunity
> to
> > > get out from under any financial dificulties
> that
> > > they may be in at this time and if we are lucky
> the
> > > market may ( or may not ) go up in value.... but
> it
> > > will give them some breathing room ..
> > >
> > > If they negotiate with a bank ... the bank will
> > > normally only give them a 6 month reprive... and
> > > almost 50% will again be behind in thier
> payments 
=== message truncated ===>
_______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
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> 
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> 
 
 
 
      
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From hollymac2 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 17 09:46:00 2009
From: hollymac2 at yahoo.com (Holly MacIntyre)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 06:46:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [5-DayForum] What happened???
In-Reply-To: <49B05044.7070106@effros.com>
Message-ID: <727126.47272.qm@web53607.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hello All - thanks for comments as I was trying to "debrief" my 5 day sale experience.
?
As previously mentioned, I'm an investor who unfortunately got stuck with a house that didn't move on the market since January.? I got into a neighborhood with a lot of other investors who bought REOs and things were going well as recent as December 08.? Similar [cookie cutter 50 year old brick ranchs] homes remodeled similarly were selling for avg $149k.? It "crashed" and very little moved from January onward.
?
I held the 5 day sale 2/28-3/1 and did manage to get the requisite 25 callers, however I could tell from my conversations with bidders that the house would not sell anywhere near where I would have been willing even to "dump" it.??
?
Talked to Realtor who claimed he was able to move similar situation houses within about two weeks so I listed with him.? True to his word, we got it under contract in 15 days.
?
Here's the bottom line comparison - after price and other concessions and higher commissions, I will be $25 - 27k higher (net to me)?than what I was able to pull in with 5 Day Sale (within 15 days of the sale, and certainly the market has not improved).? This clearly establishes that either the?5 Day?Sale does NOT ensure?highest possible price, or I did something wrong when I conducted the sale.? I would still like to understand if I did something wrong.? Perhaps the number of callers should be higher?? Certainly my buyer was out there 15 days ago, but I didn't reach him.? I would have taken his offer at that time and saved another $5k in realtor commissions.? 
?
Any thoughts????
?
Thank you,
Holly?
?


--- On Thu, 3/5/09, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:

From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???
To: "How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days" <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Date: Thursday, March 5, 2009, 10:20 PM


Conrad, Kyle,

Thanks for this discussion among professionals -- it's very helpful to amateurs. 

>From where I sit, it seems that everything varies by region, and all the professionals should be aware that what is true in their location is not necessarily true elsewhere.

There is so much small print, no one has the time to read it all.? And it changes daily.

There are many many places in this country where homes simply can't be sold, and no lender will provide a mortgage because there is virtually no possibility that the buyer, regardless of FICO score, will ever be able to repay it.

I believe that both of you guys are in areas where this phenomenon has not yet fully hit, and maybe it will never hit you -- who's to say.? But where it has hit, the situation is impossible.? There are too many homes and too few jobs.? When the jobs return, they won't be in these places.? No one in their right mind would offer a mortgage to someone who will not be able to either get or hold a job anywhere near that home.

But please keep your comments coming -- everyone learns from them.

Bill Effros
Author



lbicon at aol.com wrote: 
Hey Kyle,
I am a lender. Your loan comment was too broad. Basically you said that you need a 720 score. Simply not true.
The guidelines are now as I have stated. Coventional loans less than 20% down need a 720. Not all conventional loans.

We are trying to advise home sellers here. Are you advising that they make the buyers prove that they have a 720 FICO?
Read your comment again. I am sure that you meant conventional Fannie/Freddie loans?. FHA is?a whole different story.

Best regards,

Conrad


-----Original Message-----
From: Kyle Cascioli <real.estate.professor at hotmail.com>
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Sent: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 1:03 pm
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???



#yiv698969655 #AOLMsgPart_3_860f9e6d-345d-44ee-84d8-466abd9b7350 ..hmmessage P{margin:0px;padding:0px;}#yiv698969655 #AOLMsgPart_3_860f9e6d-345d-44ee-84d8-466abd9b7350 body.hmmessage{font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;}
Hi Conrad:
?
I stand by the comment as that's what banker's are telling us and our clients.
?
I've seen it in the underwriting of loans here in Denver - a market more stable than most. Each loan application?must be taken at its own merit..
?
Are you suggesting that it is easier to get a loan today than it was last year or the year before?
?
Do?you disagree with the observation that the buyer pool has shrunk considerably and that that is?further impacting what qualified buyer s are willing to pay for a property?
?
Best to all, 
?
Kyle Cascioli
www.AuctionBySeller.com?
?


To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 14:11:16 -0500
From: lbicon at aol.com
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???

Hello Kyle,

Sorry but your information about loan qualification is?incorrect. If?a buyer is?putting less than 20 percent down payment, the mortgage insurance company's are requiring a 720 mid FICO score. FHA is still agreat option with as little 3.5% down with much lower FICO requirement.

Regards,

Conrad


-----Original Message-----
From: Kyle Cascioli <real.estate.professor at hotmail.com>
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Sent: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 10:17 am
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???



#yiv698969655 #AOLMsgPart_3_860f9e6d-345d-44ee-84d8-466abd9b7350 ..ExternalClass #EC_AOLMsgPart_3_84b6f8e7-5e2c-467b-ba48-f809de67ad1a .EC_.hmmessage P{padding:0px;}#yiv698969655 #AOLMsgPart_3_860f9e6d-345d-44ee-84d8-466abd9b7350 ..ExternalClass #EC_AOLMsgPart_3_84b6f8e7-5e2c-467b-ba48-f809de67ad1a body.EC_hmmessage{font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;}
Hi Holly:
?
I agree with RC and Bill ...
?
Since& nbsp;the October stock market implosion?we've seen the qualified buyer pool shrink considerably.? You?now need a 720 FICO score to get a loan.? Cash is coveted!
?
Buyer's are only making offers on properties that they believe they can't get hurt on and expecting to see their acquisition property go down in?value post-sale.? By how much is anyone's guess, but buyer's are being very conservative and defensive.
?
We are?conducting our first builder 5 Day Sale here in Denver this weekend on 4 selected loft units, and you are welcome to come by and observe if you like.
?
www.DenverLoftsAuction.com 
?
Hang in there.
?
Kyle Cascioli
www.AuctionByBuilder.com 
www.AuctionBySeller.com?
www.AuctionByAgent.com 
?


Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 06:54:34 -0800
From: hollymac2 at yahoo.com
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Subject: [5-DayForum] What happened???







Hello - I just conducted my first 5-day sale and it failed miserably.? I was very disappointed and desperate - have to se ll.? I would like to understand what went wrong.
?
I did pull the 25 responses basically off of my newspaper add alone (couldn't figure out how to get Craigs list from continuously deleting my add.....).? And I did NOT include multiple responses from the same phone number, so I did get the 25 unique responses.
?
Still, my traffic was very light, and the only bids offered were from investors (who were out the first round) or people who really believed they could get the property for 50 - 60% of FMV.
?
Please help me debrief.? I have a sen se the technique can work, I just don't know what happened in my case.
?
My property is a fix and flip.? The property is in a nice neighborhood of 50 year old cookie cutter brick ranches that are low tier housing (that is - below median price in the Denver Metro area - Colorado).? The neighborhood is good and desireable (not gang stuff etc)?has gotten a lot of investors (like me!) in fixing and flipping.? The week before my sale, an exact model similarly?remodeled, sold without consessions for $145,000.? The comps of the exact model, similarly remodeled have sold within days to less than a month for $138,000 - $149,000.? Mine was advertised at $74,500 and as I said I was satisfied I got the needed calls.
?
What happened?
?
Dismayed - and now more desperate than ever...
?
Holly
?
?
?


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From real.estate.professor at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 17 10:08:07 2009
From: real.estate.professor at hotmail.com (Kyle Cascioli)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:08:07 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] Hawaii downtown condo - currently have realtor
In-Reply-To: <SNT104-W4073860A2E27E9C0F0637AAA9B0@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT104-W4073860A2E27E9C0F0637AAA9B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BLU122-W3854CDE093A02589B590BEB4980@phx.gbl>



 Hi Ed:

 

You should make the deal "even though it's all cash."

 

If that doesn't happen, you and your agent could explore working through our 5 Day Sale platform.

 

www.AuctionByAgent.com 

 

Good luck!

 

Kyle Cascioli

www.AuctionBySeller.com 





From: ejurban at hotmail.com
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 13:47:24 -1000
Subject: [5-DayForum] Hawaii downtown condo - currently have realtor



Aloha!
We have had our downtown condo listed with a realtor for the past several months.  It went into escrow once at $380k in Jan, but fell out last month at the end of closing due to seller financing (there was a competing offer of $363k).  The potential buyer had an appraisal in Jan that received the full appraisal amount.
 
We recently had an investor cash offer at $357k and we countered at $363k, but they did not accept or go higher.  My wife wanted to accept their offer, and with the potential loss of sale or lower offer, I am now in the dog house.  They went to relook again today, but do not know if they will reoffer.  My thought is that the condo could get close to $370k.  I would imagine that we would accept if they offered close to the same amount (which seems a little low to me - even though it is cash), but how would we go about a 5-day sale considering we have a realtor?
 
Sorry if this question has been asked.  I wish I had read the book before we listed instead of this past week.  I joined the forum a couple of days ago, but have not gone through past threads.  If there is one that answers this question, could someone pass it on please?
Mahalo,
Ed







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From bill at effros.com  Tue Mar 17 10:20:27 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 10:20:27 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] What happened???
In-Reply-To: <727126.47272.qm@web53607.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <727126.47272.qm@web53607.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49BFB1AB.5080709@effros.com>

Holly,

Using real numbers (what did your house cost -- what was the advertised 
price -- what was the high bid using the 5-Day Method -- what was the 
price you sold for -- how much did the broker get etc.) please refresh 
our memory. 

Bill Effros
Author



Holly MacIntyre wrote:
> Hello All - thanks for comments as I was trying to "debrief" my 5 day 
> sale experience.
>  
> As previously mentioned, I'm an investor who unfortunately got stuck 
> with a house that didn't move on the market since January.  I got into 
> a neighborhood with a lot of other investors who bought REOs and 
> things were going well as recent as December 08.  Similar [cookie 
> cutter 50 year old brick ranchs] homes remodeled similarly were 
> selling for avg $149k.  It "crashed" and very little moved from 
> January onward.
>  
> I held the 5 day sale 2/28-3/1 and did manage to get the requisite 25 
> callers, however I could tell from my conversations with bidders that 
> the house would not sell anywhere near where I would have been willing 
> even to "dump" it.  
>  
> Talked to Realtor who claimed he was able to move similar situation 
> houses within about two weeks so I listed with him.  True to his word, 
> we got it under contract in 15 days.
>  
> Here's the bottom line comparison - after price and other concessions 
> _and_ higher commissions, I will be $25 - 27k higher (net to me) than 
> what I was able to pull in with 5 Day Sale (within 15 days of the 
> sale, and certainly the market has not improved).  This clearly 
> establishes that either the 5 Day Sale does NOT ensure highest 
> possible price, or I did something wrong when I conducted the sale.  I 
> would still like to understand if I did something wrong.  Perhaps the 
> number of callers should be higher?  Certainly my buyer was out there 
> 15 days ago, but I didn't reach him.  I would have taken his offer at 
> that time and saved another $5k in realtor commissions. 
>  
> Any thoughts?   
>  
> Thank you,
> Holly 
>  
>
>
> --- On *Thu, 3/5/09, Bill Effros /<bill at effros.com>/* wrote:
>
>     From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>     Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???
>     To: "How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days"
>     <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>     Date: Thursday, March 5, 2009, 10:20 PM
>
>     Conrad, Kyle,
>
>     Thanks for this discussion among professionals -- it's very
>     helpful to amateurs.
>
>     >From where I sit, it seems that everything varies by region, and
>     all the professionals should be aware that what is true in their
>     location is not necessarily true elsewhere.
>
>     There is so much small print, no one has the time to read it all. 
>     And it changes daily.
>
>     There are many many places in this country where homes simply
>     can't be sold, and no lender will provide a mortgage because there
>     is virtually no possibility that the buyer, regardless of FICO
>     score, will ever be able to repay it.
>
>     I believe that both of you guys are in areas where this phenomenon
>     has not yet fully hit, and maybe it will never hit you -- who's to
>     say.  But where it has hit, the situation is impossible.  There
>     are too many homes and too few jobs.  When the jobs return, they
>     won't be in these places.  No one in their right mind would offer
>     a mortgage to someone who will not be able to either get or hold a
>     job anywhere near that home.
>
>     But please keep your comments coming -- everyone learns from them.
>
>     Bill Effros
>     Author
>
>
>
>     lbicon at aol.com wrote:
>>     Hey Kyle,
>>     I am a lender. Your loan comment was too broad. Basically you
>>     said that you need a 720 score. Simply not true.
>>     The guidelines are now as I have stated. Coventional loans less
>>     than 20% down need a 720. Not all conventional loans.
>>
>>     We are trying to advise home sellers here. Are you advising that
>>     they make the buyers prove that they have a 720 FICO?
>>     Read your comment again. I am sure that you meant conventional
>>     Fannie/Freddie loans . FHA is a whole different story.
>>
>>     Best regards,
>>
>>     Conrad
>>
>>
>>     -----Original Message-----
>>     From: Kyle Cascioli <real.estate.professor at hotmail.com>
>>     To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>>     Sent: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 1:03 pm
>>     Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???
>>
>>     Hi Conrad:
>>      
>>     I stand by the comment as that's what banker's are telling us and
>>     our clients.
>>      
>>     I've seen it in the underwriting of loans here in Denver - a
>>     market more stable than most. Each loan application must be taken
>>     at its own merit..
>>      
>>     Are you suggesting that it is easier to get a loan today than it
>>     was last year or the year before?
>>      
>>     Do you disagree with the observation that the buyer pool has
>>     shrunk considerably and that that is further impacting what
>>     qualified buyer s are willing to pay for a property?
>>      
>>     Best to all,
>>      
>>     Kyle Cascioli
>>     www.AuctionBySeller.com <http://www.auctionbyseller.com/> 
>>      
>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>     To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>>     <mailto:5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>>     Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 14:11:16 -0500
>>     From: lbicon at aol.com <mailto:lbicon at aol.com>
>>     Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???
>>
>>     Hello Kyle,
>>
>>     Sorry but your information about loan qualification is incorrect.
>>     If a buyer is *_putting less than 20 percent down payment, the
>>     mortgage insurance company's are requiring a 720 mid FICO score.
>>     FHA is still agreat option with as little 3.5% down with much
>>     lower FICO requirement.
>>     _*
>>     Regards,
>>
>>     Conrad
>>
>>
>>     -----Original Message-----
>>     From: Kyle Cascioli <real.estate.professor at hotmail.com
>>     <mailto:real.estate.professor at hotmail.com>>
>>     To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>>     <mailto:5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>>     Sent: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 10:17 am
>>     Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???
>>
>>     Hi Holly:
>>      
>>     I agree with RC and Bill ...
>>      
>>     Since& nbsp;the October stock market implosion we've seen the
>>     qualified buyer pool shrink considerably.  You now need a 720
>>     FICO score to get a loan.  Cash is coveted!
>>      
>>     Buyer's are only making offers on properties that they believe
>>     they can't get hurt on and expecting to see their acquisition
>>     property go down in value post-sale.  By how much is anyone's
>>     guess, but buyer's are being very conservative and defensive.
>>      
>>     We are conducting our first builder 5 Day Sale here in Denver
>>     this weekend on 4 selected loft units, and you are welcome to
>>     come by and observe if you like.
>>      
>>     www.DenverLoftsAuction.com
>>     <http://www.denverloftsauct%20%20ion.com/>
>>      
>>     Hang in there.
>>      
>>     Kyle Cascioli
>>     www.AuctionByBuilder.com <http://www.auctionbybuilder.com/>
>>     www.AuctionBySeller.com <http://www.auctionbyseller.com/> 
>>     www.AuctionByAgent.com <http://www.auctionbyagent.com/>
>>      
>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>     Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 06:54:34 -0800
>>     From: hollymac2 at yahoo.com <mailto:hollymac2 at yahoo.com>
>>     To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>>     <mailto:5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>>     Subject: [5-DayForum] What happened???
>>
>>     Hello - I just conducted my first 5-day sale and it failed
>>     miserably.  I was very disappointed and desperate - have to se
>>     ll.  I would like to understand what went wrong.
>>      
>>     I did pull the 25 responses basically off of my newspaper add
>>     alone (couldn't figure out how to get Craigs list from
>>     continuously deleting my add.....).  And I did NOT include
>>     multiple responses from the same phone number, so I did get the
>>     25 unique responses.
>>      
>>     Still, my traffic was very light, and the only bids offered were
>>     from investors (who were out the first round) or people who
>>     really believed they could get the property for 50 - 60% of FMV.
>>      
>>     Please help me debrief.  I have a sen se the technique can work,
>>     I just don't know what happened in my case.
>>      
>>     My property is a fix and flip.  The property is in a nice
>>     neighborhood of 50 year old cookie cutter brick ranches that are
>>     low tier housing (that is - below median price in the Denver
>>     Metro area - Colorado).  The neighborhood is good and desireable
>>     (not gang stuff etc) has gotten a lot of investors (like me!) in
>>     fixing and flipping.  The week before my sale, an exact model
>>     similarly remodeled, sold without consessions for $145,000.  The
>>     comps of the exact model, similarly remodeled have sold within
>>     days to less than a month for $138,000 - $149,000.  Mine was
>>     advertised at $74,500 and as I said I was satisfied I got the
>>     needed calls.
>>      
>>     What happened?
>>      
>>     Dismayed - and now more desperate than ever...
>>      
>>     Holly
>>      
>>      
>>      
>>
>>
>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>     Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. Check it out.
>>     <http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_allup_1b_explore_032009>
>>     =
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     5-DayForum mai
>>     ling list
>>     5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>>     http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>
>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>     Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web.
>>     Get the Radio Toolbar
>>     <http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000035>!
>>
>>
>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>     Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast.
>>     Find out more.
>>     <http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_70faster_032009>
>>     =
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     5-DayForum mailing list
>>     5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>>     http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>
>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>     Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web.
>>     Get the Radio Toolbar
>>     <http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000035>!
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>>     5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>>     http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>       
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From hollymac2 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 17 11:28:07 2009
From: hollymac2 at yahoo.com (Holly MacIntyre)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 08:28:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [5-DayForum] What happened???
Message-ID: <843737.22247.qm@web53607.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Thanks Bill - 
We're talking about a lower tier (below median price) "working man's" neighborhood in Thornton, Colorado.? It's a nice neighborhood, a lot of FHA loans.? A lot of investors got into the neighborhood because it was one of the highest forclosed areas in the state (when Colorado was leading the way in foreclosures), a lot of REO properties and they were letting them go so that the remodels were profitable.? On top of that, Colorado in general held real estate prices a little better than other parts of the country though certainly a 10+% price depreciation.
?
In Oct - Dec 08 same home/remodel going for about $143 - $155 (slight variances with garages, basements vs many that did not have garage/basement).
?
I listed end of Nov 08 at $149k, had about 20 showings over all?including numerous feedback responses that the home was priced right.
?
Dropped the price to $144k but as I mentioned activity in the area fell off dramatically Jan to date.? Few sales but they truly were at the $135 - 148k level right up to when I had my 5 Day sale (3/109).? ?I advertised $74,500 and did get my 25 callers.
?
I had seven bidders initially, all but two fell out immediately and the two were clearly looking for the property below $100k.? I stopped the agony with a high bid of $93k which was not going to happen - I would rent the property before I went below $115k.
?
I was able to get it under contract at $129,900 (and 4.5% realtor commissions) with an additional $4,500 concessions - net sales price to me $125k.? [buyer is an FHA buyer which is another reason we all got into that neighborhood - thinking that at least there would be FHA money to loan.]? And certainly the house did sell in the approximate average DOM?around 98 days or so, and just a smidge below the [also average] 97% of list price (last list price, of course).?? I will say?that the second Realtor marketed very aggressively (35 web sites) and was supposedly "connected" with?different ethnic communities.???? 
?
No question - the market froze up a bit January forward.? No question, more people are out now that weather is warming up a bit (really, the realtors are saying activity is up) looking and they are demanding bottom barrel pricing.? I was not going to get out of this well at this time,? but I was able to get out a little better with the Realtor than the 5 Day Sale I conducted.
?
Appreciate all analysis - would like to rely on a more successful 5 Day Sale in the future if possible.
?
Thanks again,
Holly? 
?


--- On Tue, 3/17/09, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:


From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???
To: "How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days" <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Date: Tuesday, March 17, 2009, 2:20 PM


Holly,

Using real numbers (what did your house cost -- what was the advertised price -- what was the high bid using the 5-Day Method -- what was the price you sold for -- how much did the broker get etc.) please refresh our memory.? 

Bill Effros
Author



Holly MacIntyre wrote: 





Hello All - thanks for comments as I was trying to "debrief" my 5 day sale experience.
?
As previously mentioned, I'm an investor who unfortunately got stuck with a house that didn't move on the market since January.? I got into a neighborhood with a lot of other investors who bought REOs and things were going well as recent as December 08.? Similar [cookie cutter 50 year old brick ranchs] homes remodeled similarly were selling for avg $149k.? It "crashed" and very little moved from January onward.
?
I held the 5 day sale 2/28-3/1 and did manage to get the requisite 25 callers, however I could tell from my conversations with bidders that the house would not sell anywhere near where I would have been willing even to "dump" it.??
?
Talked to Realtor who claimed he was able to move similar situation houses within about two weeks so I listed with him.? True to his word, we got it under contract in 15 days.
?
Here's the bottom line comparison - after price and other concessions and higher commissions, I will be $25 - 27k higher (net to me)?than what I was able to pull in with 5 Day Sale (within 15 days of the sale, and certainly the market has not improved).? This clearly establishes that either the?5 Day?Sale does NOT ensure?highest possible price, or I did something wrong when I conducted the sale.? I would still like to understand if I did something wrong.? Perhaps the number of callers should be higher?? Certainly my buyer was out there 15 days ago, but I didn't reach him.? I would have taken his offer at that time and saved another $5k in realtor commissions.? 
?
Any thoughts????
?
Thank you,
Holly?
?


--- On Thu, 3/5/09, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:

From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???
To: "How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days" <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Date: Thursday, March 5, 2009, 10:20 PM


Conrad, Kyle,

Thanks for this discussion among professionals -- it's very helpful to amateurs. 

>From where I sit, it seems that everything varies by region, and all the professionals should be aware that what is true in their location is not necessarily true elsewhere.

There is so much small print, no one has the time to read it all.? And it changes daily.

There are many many places in this country where homes simply can't be sold, and no lender will provide a mortgage because there is virtually no possibility that the buyer, regardless of FICO score, will ever be able to repay it.

I believe that both of you guys are in areas where this phenomenon has not yet fully hit, and maybe it will never hit you -- who's to say.? But where it has hit, the situation is impossible.? There are too many homes and too few jobs.? When the jobs return, they won't be in these places.? No one in their right mind would offer a mortgage to someone who will not be able to either get or hold a job anywhere near that home.

But please keep your comments coming -- everyone learns from them.

Bill Effros
Author



lbicon at aol.com wrote: 
Hey Kyle,
I am a lender. Your loan comment was too broad. Basically you said that you need a 720 score. Simply not true.
The guidelines are now as I have stated. Coventional loans less than 20% down need a 720. Not all conventional loans.

We are trying to advise home sellers here. Are you advising that they make the buyers prove that they have a 720 FICO?
Read your comment again. I am sure that you meant conventional Fannie/Freddie loans?. FHA is?a whole different story.

Best regards,

Conrad


-----Original Message-----
From: Kyle Cascioli <real.estate.professor at hotmail.com>
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Sent: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 1:03 pm
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???



#yiv1467428932 #yiv698969655 #AOLMsgPart_3_860f9e6d-345d-44ee-84d8-466abd9b7350 ..hmmessage P{margin:0px;padding:0px;}#yiv1467428932 #yiv698969655 #AOLMsgPart_3_860f9e6d-345d-44ee-84d8-466abd9b7350 body.hmmessage{font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;}
Hi Conrad:
?
I stand by the comment as that's what banker's are telling us and our clients.
?
I've seen it in the underwriting of loans here in Denver - a market more stable than most. Each loan application?must be taken at its own merit..
?
Are you suggesting that it is easier to get a loan today than it was last year or the year before?
?
Do?you disagree with the observation that the buyer pool has shrunk considerably and that that is?further impacting what qualified buyer s are willing to pay for a property?
?
Best to all, 
?
Kyle Cascioli
www.AuctionBySeller.com?
?


To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 14:11:16 -0500
From: lbicon at aol.com
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???

Hello Kyle,

Sorry but your information about loan qualification is?incorrect. If?a buyer is?putting less than 20 percent down payment, the mortgage insurance company's are requiring a 720 mid FICO score. FHA is still agreat option with as little 3.5% down with much lower FICO requirement.

Regards,

Conrad


-----Original Message-----
From: Kyle Cascioli <real.estate.professor at hotmail.com>
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Sent: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 10:17 am
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???



#yiv1467428932 #yiv698969655 #AOLMsgPart_3_860f9e6d-345d-44ee-84d8-466abd9b7350 ..ExternalClass #EC_AOLMsgPart_3_84b6f8e7-5e2c-467b-ba48-f809de67ad1a .EC_.hmmessage P{padding:0px;}#yiv1467428932 #yiv698969655 #AOLMsgPart_3_860f9e6d-345d-44ee-84d8-466abd9b7350 ..ExternalClass #EC_AOLMsgPart_3_84b6f8e7-5e2c-467b-ba48-f809de67ad1a body.EC_hmmessage{font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;}
Hi Holly:
?
I agree with RC and Bill ...
?
Since& nbsp;the October stock market implosion?we've seen the qualified buyer pool shrink considerably.? You?now need a 720 FICO score to get a loan.? Cash is coveted!
?
Buyer's are only making offers on properties that they believe they can't get hurt on and expecting to see their acquisition property go down in?value post-sale.? By how much is anyone's guess, but buyer's are being very conservative and defensive.
?
We are?conducting our first builder 5 Day Sale here in Denver this weekend on 4 selected loft units, and you are welcome to come by and observe if you like.
?
www.DenverLoftsAuction.com 
?
Hang in there.
?
Kyle Cascioli
www.AuctionByBuilder.com 
www.AuctionBySeller.com?
www.AuctionByAgent.com 
?


Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 06:54:34 -0800
From: hollymac2 at yahoo.com
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Subject: [5-DayForum] What happened???







Hello - I just conducted my first 5-day sale and it failed miserably.? I was very disappointed and desperate - have to se ll.? I would like to understand what went wrong.
?
I did pull the 25 responses basically off of my newspaper add alone (couldn't figure out how to get Craigs list from continuously deleting my add.....).? And I did NOT include multiple responses from the same phone number, so I did get the 25 unique responses.
?
Still, my traffic was very light, and the only bids offered were from investors (who were out the first round) or people who really believed they could get the property for 50 - 60% of FMV.
?
Please help me debrief.? I have a sen se the technique can work, I just don't know what happened in my case.
?
My property is a fix and flip.? The property is in a nice neighborhood of 50 year old cookie cutter brick ranches that are low tier housing (that is - below median price in the Denver Metro area - Colorado).? The neighborhood is good and desireable (not gang stuff etc)?has gotten a lot of investors (like me!) in fixing and flipping.? The week before my sale, an exact model similarly?remodeled, sold without consessions for $145,000.? The comps of the exact model, similarly remodeled have sold within days to less than a month for $138,000 - $149,000.? Mine was advertised at $74,500 and as I said I was satisfied I got the needed calls.
?
What happened?
?
Dismayed - and now more desperate than ever...
?
Holly
?
?
?


Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. Check it out. = 
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From joannkelty8 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 17 11:52:28 2009
From: joannkelty8 at gmail.com (Jo Ann Kelty)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 11:52:28 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
In-Reply-To: <49BEA04E.4000003@effros.com>
References: <49BBC78A.1090606@effros.com>
	<ba6acdee0903161025x7f13fa39je6cdfd4125ec5dc1@mail.gmail.com>
	<CBF8BF9D8EF14897AAE15BD8A47D397F@NSKHome>
	<ba6acdee0903161112i5fbf8bp30663c0a21225b50@mail.gmail.com>
	<ba6acdee0903161120t49c333bfg7800974e37259c03@mail.gmail.com>
	<49BEA04E.4000003@effros.com>
Message-ID: <ba6acdee0903170852k2e613051w9d6897c809303fab@mail.gmail.com>

Regarding our discussion regarding the reduction of principle.. this was
just sent to me in an email from another friend and investor here in
Florida

ATTENTION Upside-Down Investors
(and normal humans)
This is BIG news
(so it's in big type)

Word is (as of today) that the Wells Fargo/Wachovia consortium is now doing
Loan Mods on INVESTOR Properties.  This is reported to include writedowns of
Principal Balances and renegotiation of payments, based on the borrower's
ability to afford (can you spell/smell "positive cash-flow"?).

And perhaps even bigger is the near-certainty that other lenders are likely
to follow suit and open their arms (if not their hearts) to investors.




2009/3/16 Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>

> Jo Ann,
>
> Naji's point, and my point is that many homes in many places are not worth
> the current value of the principal and probably will never ever be worth the
> value of the principal.
>
> A case in point would be a retirement community in Fort Meyers, Fla. where
> 64 of the 65 homes have been foreclosed.  That 65th home owner should get
> out of there as quickly as possible, and before paying any more money on the
> mortgage.  None of those homes will ever be lived in again.
>
> While this may seem like an extreme example, there are, at the least,
> 100,000s of thousands of homes that fall into this category at this time.
> 100% of their current value will be lost -- the only question is who will
> take the hit.  Let the banks and the taxpayers take the rest of the hit.
> The home buyer has been hurt enough already, don't make it worse.
>
> This is not to say payment reduction may not be good for some people.
>
> But many on this list would be much better off immediately selling their
> homes either to the high bidder in a 5-Day Sale, or to their banks if the
> bank will not accept the current value of the home.
>
> Bill Effros
> Author
>
> PS -- Is it principal or principle...the principal is your pal...??
>
>
>
> Jo Ann Kelty wrote:
>
>   Bill
>
> I would agree if the homeowner is trying to negotiate with the banks
> directly.. because they do not know all the laws involved that can be used.
> We nornally get the Modification for a period of 5 years .. That give the
> homeowner the opportunity to get out from under any financial dificulties
> that they may be in at this time and if we are lucky the market may ( or may
> not ) go up in value.... but it will give them some breathing room ..
>
> If they negotiate with a bank ... the bank will normally only give them a 6
> month reprive... and almost 50% will again be behind in thier payments at
> the end of that period because they are back to the original payment.
>
> Jo Ann
>
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Naji
>>
>> I work for Attorneys that have a 98% success rate in getting both reduced
>> interest rates and reduction of the principal.. They negotiate with the
>> banks.. If you try to do it directly with the bank you will not have the
>> same success..   If we can not get a Modification the client recieves a 100%
>> refund...  Our mission is to help those that want to stay in thier
>> homes..... and we have helped hundreds of homeowners...
>>
>> Jo Ann
>>
>> 2009/3/16 Naji <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>
>>
>>>  Loan modifications without an *actual principal reduction to current
>>> market valuation* only benefits the banks, period! You?re better off
>>> walking away or doing a short sale than prolonging the inevitable.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> BTW, Loan Modification programs are being pushed (mostly) by the same
>>> banks and mortgage brokers that were giving away billions of dollars to
>>> unqualified buyers during the peak? It?s amazing that the same crooks that
>>> were telling a person making 40K a year they can afford a 500K home with 0
>>> down are the same ones getting into the loan modification business.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Naji
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- >From my previous posting ----------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Anyone that purchased a home or refinanced (and tapped their equity) in
>>> the last 5 years or so in many parts of the country (if not all of the
>>> country) is upside down on their mortgage, i.e house worth less than what?s
>>> owed on it, or are falling behind on payments:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So what are the options if you?re in that situation:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     1. Reinstatement - Determine the amount owed necessary to bring loan
>>>       current.
>>>          - This just prolongs the inevitable? If the house is worth much
>>>          less, especially in hard hit areas, expect to stay put for many many years
>>>          before you break even. So, you may find yourself in the same situation a few
>>>          month or years from now
>>>       2. Forbearance - Set up a payment plan to bring the loan current.
>>>          - Another option that?s not really going to work? If someone
>>>          cannot pay now, how will he be able to become current with more payments.
>>>       3. Modification - Adjust the loan terms (interest rate, payment
>>>       and length).
>>>          - Loan modification only benefits the banks at this point? They
>>>          just tack it on to the back end of the mortgage.
>>>          - This will only work if banks actually reduce the principal to
>>>          match current value. Unfortunately, less than 1% of loan modifications
>>>          result in principal reductions.
>>>       4. Deed-in-lieu - Give the property back to the lender.
>>>          - Works if the lender agrees to it and there aren?t 2nd, 3rd,
>>>          etc liens
>>>       5. Walk Away - Leave the property in the most beneficial way
>>>       possible.
>>>          - Stay as long as you can in the home ? You can stay at least 8
>>>          months before it goes to the bank and in states like Florida, expect to stay
>>>          almost 2 years.
>>>          - Don?t pay the mortgage, but instead save it all so you can
>>>          rebuild your life
>>>          - When it?s judgment time, find a place to rent and plan on
>>>          renting for a while
>>>          - You could also offload your property to someone as well
>>>       6. Short Sale - List the property for less than the amount owed.
>>>          - You can negotiate a short sale with your bank? You can do it
>>>          yourself or hire someone to do it on you behalf. It?s really not that
>>>          difficult, all it takes is communicating with your lender
>>>          - Many banks are getting easier to work with while others are
>>>          still in dreamville
>>>          - Expect this to take months due to the bank backlogs. Also,
>>>          some banks want to see the property on the market for at least 90 days
>>>          before agreeing to anything. Then they do their own BPO (which is still out
>>>          of whack) and wait like everyone else thinking they can get all their money
>>>          back?
>>>       7. Refinance - Obtain a new loan to replace the current loan(s).
>>>          - Will not work unless you?re going to bring a big chunk of
>>>          change to the table.
>>>       8. Excess Proceeds- Collecting excess money from the auction/sale
>>>       of the property.
>>>          - Wait until the property goes to the auction block and if
>>>          there?s any money left after the 1st Lien holder is paid, you
>>>          may get something back? Doubtful in many cases since all the homes going
>>>          back are worth less than the mortgage
>>>       9. Postponements - Delay the auction/sale date of the property.
>>>          - Delay the public auction of the property while you try to
>>>          figure something out
>>>          - This will only buy you time and you?ll still have to face the
>>>          music later
>>>       10. Stay In Your Home - Continue living in your current home.
>>>          - If you can afford the payments and are willing to stick it
>>>          out for 10 years or more, then just stay put
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Naji
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  ------------------------------
>>>
>>> *From:* 5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com@
>>> mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri<5-dayforum-bounces%2Bnkhouri>
>>> =cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] *On Behalf Of *Jo Ann
>>> Kelty
>>> *Sent:* Monday, March 16, 2009 1:25 PM
>>> *To:* How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
>>> *Subject:* Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The one option that you did not mention was a Loan Modification.  This
>>> can reduce your interest rate thereby reducing your monthly payment so that
>>> you can afford to stay in your home.  In some cases but not all the
>>> principal amount can also be reducuded.. If you would like more information
>>> regarding if you can qualify please contact me.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jo Ann Kelty
>>>
>>> joannkelty8 at gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 407-610-0736
>>>
>>> 407-756-6371  cell
>>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
>>>
>>>
>>> March 14, 2009
>>> Your Money
>>> By RON LIEBER
>>> (
>>> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/l/ron_lieber/index.html?inline=nyt-per
>>> )
>>>
>>> If you?re among the millions of people who will not qualify for the
>>> Obama administration?s program to help troubled homeowners, you?re
>>> probably wondering what you?re supposed to do now.
>>>
>>> Perhaps you no longer have enough income to pay your loans
>>> (
>>> http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
>>> ).
>>> Or you can afford the payments but don?t qualify for refinancing under
>>> the new plan because the value of your home is too far below the balance
>>> of the loan. If you?re far enough underwater, you?re probably
>>> questioning the wisdom of writing a monthly check on a place that may
>>> take 10 or 15 years to get back to the value it had two or three years
>>> ago. It isn?t easy to come up with the answer, and if you have moral
>>> misgivings about not making good on your mortgage
>>> (
>>> http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/mortgages/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
>>> ),
>>> a religious officiant may offer as much useful guidance as a financial
>>> planner
>>> (
>>> http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/planning/financial-planners/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
>>> ).
>>>
>>> In an economic environment like this one, however, the consequences of
>>> giving up on your mortgage may not be as painful as they were a few
>>> years ago. Yes, it?s almost always preferable to negotiate a better deal
>>> on your existing mortgage than to walk away. But if you can?t work
>>> things out with your lender, you probably won?t be sued. You shouldn?t
>>> receive a major tax bill either. And the damage to your credit will not
>>> be permanent or insurmountable.
>>>
>>> Let?s look at these last three in order.
>>>
>>> YOUR LENDER First off, let?s define what we mean by ?giving up? on your
>>> current mortgage. It may mean trying for a short sale
>>> (
>>> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/s/short_selling/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
>>> ),
>>> where the lender allows you to sell your home for less than the mortgage
>>> amount. You may also hand over the deed to the home in exchange for the
>>> lender agreeing not to start foreclosure proceedings (a ?deed in lieu?
>>> in industry terms). Then, there?s foreclosure itself, and the
>>> possibility that bankruptcy judges may soon have the power to adjust the
>>> terms of primary mortgages.
>>>
>>> That said, just because you?re ineligible under the Obama plan doesn?t
>>> mean that your lender or servicer won?t ultimately adjust your mortgage
>>> anyhow. Collectively, there are enough people in trouble or under water
>>> on their loans that they have plenty of leverage if they?re willing to
>>> play chicken with their lender and threaten to stop paying.
>>>
>>> The problem is, the lender can play chicken, too, by threatening to come
>>> after you for the balance of any money you owe ? whether it?s the
>>> difference between what you sell the property for yourself and the
>>> remaining mortgage, or the loan amount left over after the lender sells
>>> your property in foreclosure.
>>>
>>> The lender may not follow through, though. ?What our membership is
>>> telling us is that it can be cost-prohibitive to chase down a borrower
>>> who is already in financial distress,? said John Mechem, a spokesman for
>>> the Mortgage Bankers Association. ?You can?t squeeze blood from a
>>> stone.? They may, however, still come after people with high incomes who
>>> walk away from jumbo loans that are way under water or loans on
>>> investment
>>> (
>>> http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/investments/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
>>> )
>>> properties.
>>>
>>> Some states have laws that may specifically prohibit lenders from
>>> pursuing borrowers for the balance of many mortgage loans after
>>> foreclosure, though the particulars vary. Arizona and California are
>>> among these states, according to Steven Bender, a professor at the
>>> University of Oregon
>>> (
>>> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/u/university_of_oregon/index.html?inline=nyt-org
>>> )
>>> School of Law. It?s best to talk to a lawyer to determine your state?s
>>> rules.
>>>
>>> In fact, if you want to be sure your lender (or a collection agency that
>>> it may sell your loan to) won?t chase you down, it?s a good idea to have
>>> a lawyer involved with any short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure
>>> itself. ?You must get the bank to agree in writing that any deficiency
>>> is waived,? said Chip Parker, a lawyer specializing in foreclosure with
>>> Parker & DuFresne in Jacksonville, Fla.
>>>
>>> The biggest challenge here may simply be finding someone at the bank to
>>> help. Having a second mortgage will also complicate matters.
>>>
>>> YOUR TAXES You also need to consider the taxman. Often, forgiven debts
>>> are taxable as income. Recent legislative changes, however, eliminate
>>> the federal tax burden through 2012 on most primary residence debt that
>>> a lender has reduced through loan restructuring or forgiven during
>>> foreclosure.
>>>
>>> Mark Luscombe, principal analyst for CCH, a tax information service,
>>> said that people who sell their home through a short sale or give up the
>>> deed in lieu of foreclosure can also qualify for tax relief if they use
>>> a special tax form, 1099-C, that reflects the amount of debt that the
>>> lender has forgiven.
>>>
>>> People who live in states with their own income taxes may avoid a big
>>> bill as well. Some states, like Arizona and California, have introduced
>>> or passed legislation that echoes the federal laws, according to the
>>> National Conference of State Legislatures. Many others tend to mimic
>>> most or all federal income tax laws as a general rule, according to CCH.
>>> Check with an accountant in your state to be sure.
>>>
>>> YOUR CREDIT A short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure itself will almost
>>> certainly damage your credit report and score, and the black mark will
>>> last for up to seven years. But the amount of damage it does will depend
>>> on how much other credit trouble you?ve gotten yourself into with other
>>> lenders.
>>>
>>> If you?re giving up the home you own, you?ll probably need to rent soon
>>> afterward. Will landlords turn you away once they check your credit and
>>> discover your troubled mortgage? ?If it?s the only thing marring their
>>> credit, it?s probably not a big issue,? said Clay Powell, the director
>>> of the Rental Property Owners Association of Michigan, who added that
>>> good tenants could be scarce in economic environments like this one.
>>>
>>> In fact, Todd J. Zywicki, a law professor at George Mason University,
>>> predicted that FICO may have to adjust its credit scores
>>> (
>>> http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-scores/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
>>> )
>>> to lessen the impact of a foreclosure or similar incident. ?It just
>>> seems obvious that a foreclosure in 2008 or 2009 doesn?t have as much
>>> information value as a foreclosure five years ago,? he said. ?To the
>>> extent that foreclosure doesn?t predict future behavior as much as it
>>> did in the past, you?d expect that the FICO algorithm would change to
>>> adjust for that.?
>>>
>>> Craig Watts, a spokesman for FICO, said that was an interesting idea.
>>> ?We try not to get involved too much in psychobabble around what is and
>>> isn?t predictive,? he said. ?If the numbers show that foreclosure is
>>> less predictive, then we?ll take it into account in future
>>> redevelopments of the formula.? That would take a minimum of two to
>>> three years, though.
>>>
>>> Some lenders aren?t waiting that long to initiate their own foreclosure
>>> destigmatization programs. The Golden 1, one of the nation?s largest
>>> credit unions, now has a mortgage repair loan for people who have lost a
>>> home to foreclosure but want to buy a new one.
>>>
>>> It?s hard to imagine that there won?t be a parade of insurance
>>> (
>>> http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/insurance/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
>>> )
>>> companies, credit card
>>> (
>>> http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-and-debit-cards/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
>>> )
>>> issuers and mortgage lenders in Golden 1?s wake, even though Fannie Mae
>>> (
>>> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/fannie_mae/index.html?inline=nyt-org
>>> )
>>> and Freddie Mac
>>> (
>>> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/freddie_mac/index.html?inline=nyt-org
>>> )
>>> may be unwilling to guarantee the mortgages of such borrowers for
>>> several years. In fact, Aaron Bresko, the vice president of lending for
>>> BECU, another large credit union based in Washington State, is putting
>>> together a panel called ?How to Lend to the Newly Credit Impaired? for a
>>> conference later this year.
>>>
>>> ?Good people have bad things happen to them, so how do you find those
>>> people and reach out to them?? he said. ?As the year progresses, it?s
>>> going to be an emerging market.?
>>>
>>> How are you handling your mortgage problems?
>>> Write to rlieber at nytimes.com.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 5-DayForum mailing list
>>> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>>>
>>> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 5-DayForum mailing list
>>> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>>>
>>> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>>
>>>
>>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.comhttp://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
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From real.estate.professor at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 17 12:41:02 2009
From: real.estate.professor at hotmail.com (Kyle Cascioli)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 11:41:02 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] Denver 5 Day Multi-Unit Loft Sale
Message-ID: <BLU122-W40F70D1F23BAB0988640F4B4980@phx.gbl>


Hi Everyone:

 

My students are on Spring Break, so the formal case study may not be ready for a couple week or so.

 

In the meantime, I can report the following.

 

The builder built the property for over $250/SF and delivered it to market in August of 2008.  Like many buyer's, flippers, investors, and other builders, this fellow did all the right things at the wrong time in developing this eclectic urban infill 16 unit project.

 

We marketed the units for nearly 3 weeks and had over 20 pre-registrations, 4 pre-auction sealed bid entries, and had over 70 groups come through the project during the two week inspection period.  By Sunday night we had 15 bidders on four units.

 

The round robin bidding session lasted 4.5 hours utilizing both phone and our online virtual auction room.

 

We had final and best bids for all units.  We had great interest and success bidding up the 1 bedroom units, but the market didn't react favorably to the two bedroom unit given the properties limitation of 1 underground parking space per unit.  It's obvious that in a good market property defects or project design flaws do not appear to have as detrimental an impact on pricing.  In a down-market such defects or flaws are glaringly obvious, come under great scrutiny, and have a significant detrimental impact on pricing.

 

On two of the one bedroom units we achieved roughly 83% and 85% of the builders target price and he is holding firm (a mistake for market reasons too numerous to address in this email, but that will be addressed in the case study) and while everyone is still talking, I do not believe those two potential transactions will occur.  However, it appears that we are going to contract on the the fourth unit, 3D.

 

The builder was extremely happy with the 5 Day Sale undertaking, as it generated great market interest and exposure for the project, created buyer activity where none existed before, produced excellent direct market feedback on the project's attributes and limitations, resulted in 15 offers for the 4 units, and may still conclude with the sale of a unit in an extremely dysfunctional marketplace.

 

We'll continue to keep you posted as events unfold and will post a new case study on the site soon.

 

It really works ...

 

Kyle Cascioli

www.AuctionByBuilder.com 

 

 

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From bill at effros.com  Tue Mar 17 14:07:44 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 14:07:44 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] What happened???
In-Reply-To: <843737.22247.qm@web53607.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <843737.22247.qm@web53607.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49BFE6F0.1010101@effros.com>

Holly,

Thanks for the detail.

You made the same mistake Sean is planning to make -- placing too high a 
starting price in your ad, in the hope that will drive up the final 
price.  It doesn't work that way -- you drive away real buyers instead 
of bringing them in.

When you asked "What Happened?" immediately after your 5-Day Sale I said 
"Your home is no longer worth $138,000 -- $149,000."

I was able to make that statement solely on the basis of the results of 
your 5-Day Sale, and without knowing any of the specifics. I said that 
was the bad news.  I also said "You can't sell it for that at this time, 
or you would already have done so."

and

"The 5-Day Method does not change the market, it just lets you know what 
it is at the current time."

and

"The good news is that your starting price of $74,500 drew 25 responses.  
That means that there are still enough people out there actively seeking 
to buy your home for what it is currently worth."

and

"If you decide to try the 5-Day Method again, start your home at 
$49,500.  Tell everyone that you will either sell it to the high bidder, 
or simply walk away from it if the bank won't take the high bidder's offer.

"Banish the words "Fair Market Value" and "FMV" from your vocabulary.  By 
definition, the most you can get for your home in the current market is 
the "Fair Market Value".


Even if you really believed your home was worth $149,000 at the time of 
your 5-Day Sale, the starting price should have been $49,500.

The beauty of the 50% dropped to the next lowest "Magic Number" starting 
price is that it adjusts for seller over-estimates.

It is not a coincidence that the magic number for $129,900 is also $49,500.

If you had started at $49,500, your eventual buyer and many other real 
buyers would have come to your open house and bid against each other 
right up to "Fair Market Value" which turned out to be an amount you 
considered unacceptable prior to running your 5-Day Sale.

With the knowledge gained from your 5-Day Sale you proceeded to cut a 
completely different deal with a broker that netted you only 80% of what 
you thought was "Fair Market Value" prior to your 5-Day Sale.

"What Happened?" was that the 5-Day Method worked for you.  You could 
have priced and sold your home in 5 Days if you had followed the method 
more closely.  As it was, you sold your home in a month, paid a 
commission, and spent more on advertising and other expenses than you 
had to spend had you properly run the 5-Day sale in the first place.

If you run another 5-Day Sale you will be more successful if you start 
at lower price.

Bill Effros
Author


Holly MacIntyre wrote:
> Thanks Bill -
> We're talking about a lower tier (below median price) "working man's" 
> neighborhood in Thornton, Colorado.  It's a nice neighborhood, a lot 
> of FHA loans.  A lot of investors got into the neighborhood because it 
> was one of the highest forclosed areas in the state (when Colorado was 
> leading the way in foreclosures), a lot of REO properties and they 
> were letting them go so that the remodels were profitable.  On top of 
> that, Colorado in general held real estate prices a little better than 
> other parts of the country though certainly a 10+% price depreciation.
>  
> In Oct - Dec 08 same home/remodel going for about $143 - $155 (slight 
> variances with garages, basements vs many that did not have 
> garage/basement).
>  
> I listed end of Nov 08 at $149k, had about 20 showings over 
> all including numerous feedback responses that the home was priced right.
>  
> Dropped the price to $144k but as I mentioned activity in the area 
> fell off dramatically Jan to date.  Few sales but they truly were at 
> the $135 - 148k level right up to when I had my 5 Day sale (3/109).  
>  I advertised $74,500 and did get my 25 callers.
>  
> I had seven bidders initially, all but two fell out immediately and 
> the two were clearly looking for the property below $100k.  I stopped 
> the agony with a high bid of $93k which was not going to happen - I 
> would rent the property before I went below $115k.
>  
> I was able to get it under contract at $129,900 (and 4.5% realtor 
> commissions) with an additional $4,500 concessions - net sales price 
> to me $125k.  [buyer is an FHA buyer which is another reason we all 
> got into that neighborhood - thinking that at least there would be FHA 
> money to loan.]  And certainly the house did sell in the approximate 
> average DOM around 98 days or so, and just a smidge below the [also 
> average] 97% of list price (last list price, of course).   I will 
> say that the second Realtor marketed very aggressively (35 web sites) 
> and was supposedly "connected" with different ethnic communities.    
>  
> No question - the market froze up a bit January forward.  No question, 
> more people are out /now/ that weather is warming up a bit (really, 
> the realtors are saying activity is up) looking and they are demanding 
> bottom barrel pricing.  I was not going to get out of this well at 
> this time,  but I was able to get out a little better with the Realtor 
> than the 5 Day Sale I conducted.
>  
> Appreciate all analysis - would like to rely on a more successful 5 
> Day Sale in the future if possible.
>  
> Thanks again,
> Holly 
>  
>
>
> --- On *Tue, 3/17/09, Bill Effros /<bill at effros.com>/* wrote:
>
>
>     From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>     Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???
>     To: "How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days"
>     <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>     Date: Tuesday, March 17, 2009, 2:20 PM
>
>     Holly,
>
>     Using real numbers (what did your house cost -- what was the
>     advertised price -- what was the high bid using the 5-Day Method
>     -- what was the price you sold for -- how much did the broker get
>     etc.) please refresh our memory. 
>
>     Bill Effros
>     Author
>
>
>
>     Holly MacIntyre wrote:
>>     Hello All - thanks for comments as I was trying to "debrief" my 5
>>     day sale experience.
>>      
>>     As previously mentioned, I'm an investor who unfortunately got
>>     stuck with a house that didn't move on the market since January. 
>>     I got into a neighborhood with a lot of other investors who
>>     bought REOs and things were going well as recent as December 08. 
>>     Similar [cookie cutter 50 year old brick ranchs] homes remodeled
>>     similarly were selling for avg $149k.  It "crashed" and very
>>     little moved from January onward.
>>      
>>     I held the 5 day sale 2/28-3/1 and did manage to get the
>>     requisite 25 callers, however I could tell from my conversations
>>     with bidders that the house would not sell anywhere near where I
>>     would have been willing even to "dump" it.  
>>      
>>     Talked to Realtor who claimed he was able to move similar
>>     situation houses within about two weeks so I listed with him. 
>>     True to his word, we got it under contract in 15 days.
>>      
>>     Here's the bottom line comparison - after price and other
>>     concessions _and_ higher commissions, I will be $25 - 27k higher
>>     (net to me) than what I was able to pull in with 5 Day Sale
>>     (within 15 days of the sale, and certainly the market has not
>>     improved).  This clearly establishes that either the 5 Day Sale
>>     does NOT ensure highest possible price, or I did something wrong
>>     when I conducted the sale.  I would still like to understand if I
>>     did something wrong.  Perhaps the number of callers should be
>>     higher?  Certainly my buyer was out there 15 days ago, but I
>>     didn't reach him.  I would have taken his offer at that time and
>>     saved another $5k in realtor commissions. 
>>      
>>     Any thoughts?   
>>      
>>     Thank you,
>>     Holly 
>>      
>>
>>
>>     --- On *Thu, 3/5/09, Bill Effros /<bill at effros.com>/* wrote:
>>
>>         From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>>         Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???
>>         To: "How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days"
>>         <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>>         Date: Thursday, March 5, 2009, 10:20 PM
>>
>>         Conrad, Kyle,
>>
>>         Thanks for this discussion among professionals -- it's very
>>         helpful to amateurs.
>>
>>         >From where I sit, it seems that everything varies by region,
>>         and all the professionals should be aware that what is true
>>         in their location is not necessarily true elsewhere.
>>
>>         There is so much small print, no one has the time to read it
>>         all.  And it changes daily.
>>
>>         There are many many places in this country where homes simply
>>         can't be sold, and no lender will provide a mortgage because
>>         there is virtually no possibility that the buyer, regardless
>>         of FICO score, will ever be able to repay it.
>>
>>         I believe that both of you guys are in areas where this
>>         phenomenon has not yet fully hit, and maybe it will never hit
>>         you -- who's to say.  But where it has hit, the situation is
>>         impossible.  There are too many homes and too few jobs.  When
>>         the jobs return, they won't be in these places.  No one in
>>         their right mind would offer a mortgage to someone who will
>>         not be able to either get or hold a job anywhere near that home.
>>
>>         But please keep your comments coming -- everyone learns from
>>         them.
>>
>>         Bill Effros
>>         Author
>>
>>
>>
>>         lbicon at aol.com wrote:
>>>         Hey Kyle,
>>>         I am a lender. Your loan comment was too broad. Basically
>>>         you said that you need a 720 score. Simply not true.
>>>         The guidelines are now as I have stated. Coventional loans
>>>         less than 20% down need a 720. Not all conventional loans.
>>>
>>>         We are trying to advise home sellers here. Are you advising
>>>         that they make the buyers prove that they have a 720 FICO?
>>>         Read your comment again. I am sure that you meant
>>>         conventional Fannie/Freddie loans . FHA is a whole different
>>>         story.
>>>
>>>         Best regards,
>>>
>>>         Conrad
>>>
>>>
>>>         -----Original Message-----
>>>         From: Kyle Cascioli <real.estate.professor at hotmail.com>
>>>         To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>>>         Sent: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 1:03 pm
>>>         Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???
>>>
>>>         Hi Conrad:
>>>          
>>>         I stand by the comment as that's what banker's are telling
>>>         us and our clients.
>>>          
>>>         I've seen it in the underwriting of loans here in Denver - a
>>>         market more stable than most. Each loan application must be
>>>         taken at its own merit..
>>>          
>>>         Are you suggesting that it is easier to get a loan today
>>>         than it was last year or the year before?
>>>          
>>>         Do you disagree with the observation that the buyer pool has
>>>         shrunk considerably and that that is further impacting what
>>>         qualified buyer s are willing to pay for a property?
>>>          
>>>         Best to all,
>>>          
>>>         Kyle Cascioli
>>>         www.AuctionBySeller.com <http://www.auctionbyseller.com/> 
>>>          
>>>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>         To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>>>         <http://us.mc11.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>>>         Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 14:11:16 -0500
>>>         From: lbicon at aol.com
>>>         <http://us.mc11.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lbicon at aol.com>
>>>         Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???
>>>
>>>         Hello Kyle,
>>>
>>>         Sorry but your information about loan qualification
>>>         is incorrect. If a buyer is *_putting less than 20 percent
>>>         down payment, the mortgage insurance company's are requiring
>>>         a 720 mid FICO score. FHA is still agreat option with as
>>>         little 3.5% down with much lower FICO requirement.
>>>         _*
>>>         Regards,
>>>
>>>         Conrad
>>>
>>>
>>>         -----Original Message-----
>>>         From: Kyle Cascioli <real.estate.professor at hotmail.com
>>>         <http://us.mc11.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=real.estate.professor at hotmail.com>>
>>>         To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>>>         <http://us.mc11.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>>>         Sent: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 10:17 am
>>>         Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???
>>>
>>>         Hi Holly:
>>>          
>>>         I agree with RC and Bill ...
>>>          
>>>         Since& nbsp;the October stock market implosion we've seen
>>>         the qualified buyer pool shrink considerably.  You now need
>>>         a 720 FICO score to get a loan.  Cash is coveted!
>>>          
>>>         Buyer's are only making offers on properties that they
>>>         believe they can't get hurt on and expecting to see their
>>>         acquisition property go down in value post-sale.  By how
>>>         much is anyone's guess, but buyer's are being very
>>>         conservative and defensive.
>>>          
>>>         We are conducting our first builder 5 Day Sale here in
>>>         Denver this weekend on 4 selected loft units, and you are
>>>         welcome to come by and observe if you like.
>>>          
>>>         www.DenverLoftsAuction.com
>>>         <http://www.denverloftsauct%20%20ion.com/>
>>>          
>>>         Hang in there.
>>>          
>>>         Kyle Cascioli
>>>         www.AuctionByBuilder.com <http://www.auctionbybuilder.com/>
>>>         www.AuctionBySeller.com <http://www.auctionbyseller.com/> 
>>>         www.AuctionByAgent.com <http://www.auctionbyagent.com/>
>>>          
>>>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>         Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 06:54:34 -0800
>>>         From: hollymac2 at yahoo.com
>>>         <http://us.mc11.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hollymac2 at yahoo.com>
>>>         To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>>>         <http://us.mc11.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>>>         Subject: [5-DayForum] What happened???
>>>
>>>         Hello - I just conducted my first 5-day sale and it failed
>>>         miserably.  I was very disappointed and desperate - have to
>>>         se ll.  I would like to understand what went wrong.
>>>          
>>>         I did pull the 25 responses basically off of my newspaper
>>>         add alone (couldn't figure out how to get Craigs list from
>>>         continuously deleting my add.....).  And I did NOT include
>>>         multiple responses from the same phone number, so I did get
>>>         the 25 unique responses.
>>>          
>>>         Still, my traffic was very light, and the only bids offered
>>>         were from investors (who were out the first round) or people
>>>         who really believed they could get the property for 50 - 60%
>>>         of FMV.
>>>          
>>>         Please help me debrief.  I have a sen se the technique can
>>>         work, I just don't know what happened in my case.
>>>          
>>>         My property is a fix and flip.  The property is in a nice
>>>         neighborhood of 50 year old cookie cutter brick ranches that
>>>         are low tier housing (that is - below median price in the
>>>         Denver Metro area - Colorado).  The neighborhood is good and
>>>         desireable (not gang stuff etc) has gotten a lot of
>>>         investors (like me!) in fixing and flipping.  The week
>>>         before my sale, an exact model similarly remodeled, sold
>>>         without consessions for $145,000.  The comps of the exact
>>>         model, similarly remodeled have sold within days to less
>>>         than a month for $138,000 - $149,000.  Mine was advertised
>>>         at $74,500 and as I said I was satisfied I got the needed calls.
>>>          
>>>         What happened?
>>>          
>>>         Dismayed - and now more desperate than ever...
>>>          
>>>         Holly
>>>          
>>>          
>>>          
>>>
>>>
>>>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>         Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. Check it out.
>>>         <http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_allup_1b_explore_032009>
>>>         =
>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>         5-DayForum mai
>>>         ling list
>>>         5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com <http://us.mc11.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>>>         http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>>
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>>>         http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>>
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>>>         5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>>>         http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>>           
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>>         5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
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From EVoth at sjm.com  Tue Mar 17 11:42:45 2009
From: EVoth at sjm.com (Voth, Eric)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 10:42:45 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] sales in Minneapolis-St Paul, Minnesota?
Message-ID: <BC19A2296C530D4987080AAA01BE4B24010A60FD@USSPPEXC01.ad.sjm.com>

Hello,

 

I am preparing my home for listing, but have not yet signed with a
realtor.  I would be curious to know how many other sales in the Twin
Cities metro area have completed in 5 days using this method in the last
12 months.  And can anyone point me to contact info for some sellers who
might be willing to share their experiences?

 

Thanks,

Eric

This communication, including any attachments, may contain information that is proprietary, privileged, confidential or legally exempt from disclosure.  If you are not a named addressee, you are hereby notified that you are not authorized to read, print, retain a copy of or disseminate any portion of this communication without the consent of the sender and that doing so may be unlawful.  If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender via return e-mail and delete it from your system.
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From nationalcaptial at comcast.net  Tue Mar 17 15:29:21 2009
From: nationalcaptial at comcast.net (Sunny)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 15:29:21 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Please Indicate Your Location
In-Reply-To: <49BFA26D.9060400@effros.com>
References: <710179.91365.qm@web30205.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<8CB74A797FEB10A-E84-1540@webmail-de21.sysops.aol.com><ba6acdee0903162022ma372d15h286cb1e02703c931@mail.gmail.com>
	<49BFA26D.9060400@effros.com>
Message-ID: <2418AF0D8F764C64A7A0D87D2AC3DDC5@NCPPC>

please take me off list please
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bill Effros 
  To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days 
  Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 9:15 AM
  Subject: [5-DayForum] Please Indicate Your Location


  Let's try putting our location after our names.

  The fact that Jo Ann and Naji are in Florida is significant -- things are happening a year earlier there than in some other places.

  If they are reducing principal in Florida, they will start doing it elsewhere as well.

  Bill Effros
  Greenwich, Ct.



  Jo Ann Kelty wrote: 
    Conrad 

    You are correct regarding the principle... however here in Florida I am seeing the increase in the reduction of principle... last week we had a client that the negotiators were able to reduce the principle from apx 300k to 150k  and we are seeing more and more of this happening here.. but  it is case by case and there are no guarentees..

    Jo Ann


    2009/3/16 <lbicon at aol.com>

      Steven,

      You should call your lender and give them a reason that you are "struggling" to make your payments. I have had about six clients call their lenders and get either "steamlined" refionances or loan payment mods. If you are looking for a significant reduction in your principle it isn't out there yet.

      Conrad Kuiken, Loan Officer,short sale negociator,realtor,investor 



      -----Original Message-----
      From: Steven Herbert <sterbert at yahoo.com>
      To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
      Sent: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 2:17 pm
      Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan



Bill suggests I stop making payments.

Would THAT speed the process along? Or am I just
asking for trouble since I could be making them (it
just doesn't make sense to, according to Bill)?

Steven 
Washington HomeOwner


--- Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Steven
> 
> In most cases the bank will not negotiate with you
> untill you have missed
> payments.. but you can get a loan modification it
> will just take longer
> since those that are behind are normally the first
> to be considered.
> 
> If you want to go down that path you may want to
> start your process soon.
> 
> Jo Ann
> 
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Steven Herbert
> <sterbert at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> > I've toyed with the idea of walking away (or
> > threatening to at least). I bought at $257K and
> owe
> > $248K after 3.5 yrs. I'm not sure if I'm
> underwater or
> > not (probably even w/sealevel).
> >
> > I haven't missed payments, I'm not struggling to
> make
> > them. But we're a military family and would be
> moving
> > this October. Renting won't pay near the $1800
> > mortgage and I'll be losing my income when I move.
> > Would a bank care about my situation considering
> > October is a ways off?
> >
> > Steven
> >
> >
> > --- "O'Day, Lili" <lili at lilioday.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I just want to say that one other possibility
> for
> > > those who think they may have an unfair bank
> loan is
> > > to have a forensic loan audit done. (google it!)
> > > One of my clients just had it done on 3 of her
> > > Washington Mutual loans . Every one of them had
> > > serious violations, which would have meant she
> would
> > > have paid  hundred of thousands of dollars too
> much
> > > to the bank..... (all considered predatory
> loans)
> > > Now the bank is on the hot seat,   She's been
> > > offered some really sweet terms on one of the
> loans.
> > > already.  ..2.9% +   .  An audit that shows
> serious
> > > violations puts the borrower in a position to
> > > negotiate from a position of strength.
> > >
> > > Lili O'Day
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
>
5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Blili>=lilioday.com@
> > mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Naji
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:03 PM
> > > To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Definitions
> > > Principal
> > > adjective
> > > [PicExportError]             first or highest in
> > > rank, importance, value, etc.; chief; foremost.
> > > noun
> > > [PicExportError]             a chief or head of
> an
> > > organization
> > > [PicExportError]             something of
> primary
> > > importance
> > > [PicExportError]             Law. a person who
> > > authorizes another (an agent) to represent him
> or
> > > her
> > > [PicExportError]             Finance. a capital
> sum,
> > > the main amount of a loan or investment (as
> > > distinguished from interest or profit)
> > > Principle noun
> > > [PicExportError]             a fundamental
> > > assumption. The principles of physics dictate
> that
> > > you cannot travel faster than the speed of
> light.
> > > [PicExportError]             a generally
> acceptable
> >  > rule of action or behaviour. moral principles
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
>
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Bnkhouri>=
> > cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Bill Effros
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:54 PM
> > > To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Jo Ann,
> > >
> > > Naji's point, and my point is that many homes in
> > > many places are not worth the current value of
> the
> > > principal and probably will never ever be worth
> the
> > > value of the principal.
> > >
> > > A case in point would be a retirement community
> in
> > > Fort Meyers, Fla. where 64 of the 65 homes have
> been
> > > foreclosed.  That 65th home owner should get out
> of
> > > there as quickly as possible, and before paying
> any
> > > more money on the mortgage.  None of those homes
> > > will ever be lived in again.
> > >
> > > While this may seem like an extreme example,
> there
> > > are, at the least, 100,000s of thousands of
> homes
> > > that fall into this category at this time.  100%
> of
> > > their current value will be lost -- the only
> > > question is who will take the hit.  Let the
> banks
> > > and the taxpayers take the rest of the hit.  The
> > > home buyer has been hurt enough already, don't
> make
> > > it worse.
> > >
> > > This is not to say payment reduction may not be
> good
> > > for some people.
> > >
> > > But many on this list would be much better off
> > > immediately selling their homes either to the
> high
> > > bidder in a 5-Day Sale, or to their banks if the
> > > bank will not accept the current value of the
> home.
> > >
> > > Bill Effros
> > > Author
> > >
> > > PS -- Is it principal or principle...the
> principal
> > > is your pal...??
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jo Ann Kelty wrote:
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > I would agree if the homeowner is trying to
> > > negotiate with the banks directly.. because they
> do
> > > not know all the laws involved that can be used.
>  We
> > > nornally get the Modification for a period of 5
> > > years .. That give the homeowner the opportunity
> to
> > > get out from under any financial dificulties
> that
> > > they may be in at this time and if we are lucky
> the
> > > market may ( or may not ) go up in value.... but
> it
> > > will give them some breathing room ..
> > >
> > > If they negotiate with a bank ... the bank will
> > > normally only give them a 6 month reprive... and
> > > almost 50% will again be behind in thier
> payments 
=== message truncated ===>
_______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> 



      
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From yesphile at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 17 18:10:27 2009
From: yesphile at yahoo.com (Lou Anderson)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 15:10:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [5-DayForum] Time frame for 2nd 5 Day Sale
Message-ID: <174167.36747.qm@web33408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello everyone,
I ran my 1st? 5 Day Sale march 4-9, 2009. Got 32 responses by Friday,
sold home Sun Eve, went to contract Monday with $ 1 K earnest money.
4 days passed, I called them to check status of loan, they were having trouble.
I referred them to my Mortgage Broker, who pre-approved them on the phone.
They stated they wanted to close ASAP.
This was 3/13/2009. The Broker nor I have heard from buyers since. My messages have not been returned. I am trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. Yet, if they don't get their act together, I need to make other arrangements.?My 2nd bidder was way too low to use as 
backup purchaser. What should my time frame for 2nd 5 Day Sale be?
This weekend will be sunny and warmer, with no holidays or events to conflict with my sale.
Is it too soon after the 1st sale, or is there no time like the present? 
Carpe Diem! I resubmitted my 7 Line add to start tomorrow (Wed).
Has anyone else experienced this?
Thanks for your help.
?
Lou Anderson






Get a 30 Day Free Trial at?www.sunandmoonmoney.com. Our comp plan pays a commission of $400 - $600 per sale.
View the video NOW at www.sunandmoonmoney.com?. 
?
Lou Anderson


      
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From yesphile at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 17 18:17:45 2009
From: yesphile at yahoo.com (Lou Anderson)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 15:17:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [5-DayForum] Time frame for 2nd 5 Day Sale
Message-ID: <337314.80554.qm@web33402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>



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Hello everyone,
I ran my 1st? 5 Day Sale march 4-9, 2009. Got 32 responses by Friday,
sold home Sun Eve, went to contract Monday with $ 1 K earnest money.
4 days passed, I called them to check status of loan, they were having trouble.
I referred them to my Mortgage Broker, who pre-approved them on the phone.
They stated they wanted to close ASAP.
This was 3/13/2009. The Broker nor I have heard from buyers since. My messages have not been returned. I am trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. Yet, if they don't get their act together, I need to make other arrangements.?My 2nd bidder was way too low to use as 
backup purchaser. What should my time frame for 2nd 5 Day Sale be?
This weekend will be sunny and warmer, with no holidays or events to conflict with my sale.
Is it too soon after the 1st sale, or is there no time like the present? 
Carpe Diem! I resubmitted my 7 Line add to start tomorrow (Wed).
Has anyone else experienced this?
Thanks for your help.
?
Lou Anderson







Get a 30 Day Free Trial at?www.sunandmoonmoney.com. Our comp plan pays a commission of $400 - $600 per sale.
View the video NOW at www.sunandmoonmoney.com?. 
?
Lou Anderson


      
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From bill at effros.com  Tue Mar 17 21:09:07 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 21:09:07 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Time frame for 2nd 5 Day Sale
In-Reply-To: <174167.36747.qm@web33408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <174167.36747.qm@web33408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49C049B3.9090301@effros.com>

Lou,

This weekend is fine.

The question is, how did your second bidder wind up so far under the first?

Bill Effros
Author



Lou Anderson wrote:
> Hello everyone,
> I ran my 1st  5 Day Sale march 4-9, 2009. Got 32 responses by Friday,
> sold home Sun Eve, went to contract Monday with $ 1 K earnest money.
> 4 days passed, I called them to check status of loan, they were having 
> trouble.
> I referred them to my Mortgage Broker, who pre-approved them on the phone.
> They stated they wanted to close ASAP.
> This was 3/13/2009. The Broker nor I have heard from buyers since. My 
> messages have not been returned. I am trying to give them the benefit 
> of the doubt. Yet, if they don't get their act together, I need to 
> make other arrangements. My 2nd bidder was way too low to use as
> backup purchaser. What should my time frame for 2nd 5 Day Sale be?
> This weekend will be sunny and warmer, with no holidays or events to 
> conflict with my sale.
> Is it too soon after the 1st sale, or is there no time like the present?
> Carpe Diem! I resubmitted my 7 Line add to start tomorrow (Wed).
> Has anyone else experienced this?
> Thanks for your help.
>  
> Lou Anderson
>
> /*
> */Get a 30 Day Free Trial at www.sunandmoonmoney.com 
> <http://www.sunandmoonmoney.com/>. Our comp plan pays a commission of 
> $400 - $600 per sale./*
> */View the video NOW at www.sunandmoonmoney.com 
> <http://www.sunandmoonmoney.com/>/**/ . /*
>  
> */Lou Anderson/*
> */
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
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From bill at effros.com  Tue Mar 17 21:14:46 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 21:14:46 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] sales in Minneapolis-St Paul, Minnesota?
In-Reply-To: <BC19A2296C530D4987080AAA01BE4B24010A60FD@USSPPEXC01.ad.sjm.com>
References: <BC19A2296C530D4987080AAA01BE4B24010A60FD@USSPPEXC01.ad.sjm.com>
Message-ID: <49C04B06.7030206@effros.com>

Eric,

Look in the archives for shared experiences.

Decide if you want to sell your home sooner or later.

If you trust the 5 Day Method and want to sell sooner, try it before 
signing with a broker.

If you are happy to sell later, sign up with a broker for 3 months and 
see how the broker does, and what price the broker will pick for a 3 
month window.

Then you are free to decide again what you want to do after 3 months; 
sell sooner or later.  You will also have a very good idea of what you 
can't get at the present time.

Bill Effros
Author



Voth, Eric wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
>  
>
> I am preparing my home for listing, but have not yet signed with a 
> realtor.  I would be curious to know how many other sales in the Twin 
> Cities metro area have completed in 5 days using this method in the 
> last 12 months.  And can anyone point me to contact info for some 
> sellers who might be willing to share their experiences?
>
>  
>
> Thanks,
>
> Eric
>
>  
> This communication, including any attachments, may contain information 
> that is proprietary, privileged, confidential or legally exempt from 
> disclosure. If you are not a named addressee, you are hereby notified 
> that you are not authorized to read, print, retain a copy of or 
> disseminate any portion of this communication without the consent of 
> the sender and that doing so may be unlawful. If you have received 
> this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender via 
> return e-mail and delete it from your system.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
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From yesphile at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 17 21:38:09 2009
From: yesphile at yahoo.com (Lou Anderson)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 18:38:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [5-DayForum] Time Frame of 2nd Sale
Message-ID: <856688.10514.qm@web33401.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Bill,
thanks for the reply.
I lost part of my text in my first post.
What I meant to type was that my 2nd? highest bidder
was only $500 lower than the highest bidder.
She has also gone awol.
My 3rd highest bidder was $7000 less than 1st bidder.
I'm so flustered now I'm ready to start over with a new magic # of $49,500.
Prior # of first sale was $74,500. 
I'm still hoping my buyers will come through, but my backup strategy is to hold sale #2
this weekend...Thanks!






Get a 30 Day Free Trial at?www.sunandmoonmoney.com. Our comp plan pays a commission of $400 - $600 per sale.
View the video NOW at www.sunandmoonmoney.com?. 
?
Lou Anderson


      
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From bill at effros.com  Tue Mar 17 22:38:43 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 22:38:43 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Time Frame of 2nd Sale
In-Reply-To: <856688.10514.qm@web33401.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <856688.10514.qm@web33401.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49C05EB3.7060107@effros.com>

Don't worry about the awol part -- it happens.

If you got 2 legitimately to roughly the same point, you'll be able to 
do the same thing again, and you'll come out to roughly the same price 
over and over until you get someone who will complete the deal.

Many people will notice it's the same house using the same method.  If 
they've seen your home, they don't have to see it again -- they can go 
directly to the bidding sheet if they choose.

Tell everyone who asks where the bidding went.

Explain that you got $1000, but that the buyer disappeared.

Tell them all you'll take the high bid, again.

There will be a lot of people with bidder's remorse who will wish they 
had bid more the first time.

Keep us posted.

Bill Effros
Author

\
Lou Anderson wrote:
> Bill,
> thanks for the reply.
> I lost part of my text in my first post.
> What I meant to type was that my 2nd  highest bidder
> was only $500 lower than the highest bidder.
> She has also gone awol.
> My 3rd highest bidder was $7000 less than 1st bidder.
> I'm so flustered now I'm ready to start over with a new magic # of 
> $49,500.
> Prior # of first sale was $74,500.
> I'm still hoping my buyers will come through, but my backup strategy 
> is to hold sale #2
> this weekend...Thanks!
>
> /*
> */Get a 30 Day Free Trial at www.sunandmoonmoney.com 
> <http://www.sunandmoonmoney.com/>. Our comp plan pays a commission of 
> $400 - $600 per sale./*
> */View the video NOW at www.sunandmoonmoney.com 
> <http://www.sunandmoonmoney.com/>/**/ . /*
>  
> */Lou Anderson/*
> */
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
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From yesphile at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 18 05:30:33 2009
From: yesphile at yahoo.com (Lou Anderson)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 02:30:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [5-DayForum] Time Frame of 2nd Sale
Message-ID: <150204.74307.qm@web33403.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Bill,
?
Thanks for the encouragement...
Knowlege is power!
Your book and this forum is invaluable.
I appreciate the support.
?
?
Lou Anderson
?
5-DayForum] Time Frame of 2nd SaleBill Effros bill at effros.com 
Tue Mar 17 22:38:43 EDT 2009 


Previous message: [5-DayForum] Time Frame of 2nd Sale 
Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] 

Don't worry about the awol part -- it happens.

If you got 2 legitimately to roughly the same point, you'll be able to 
do the same thing again, and you'll come out to roughly the same price 
over and over until you get someone who will complete the deal.

Many people will notice it's the same house using the same method.  If 
they've seen your home, they don't have to see it again -- they can go 
directly to the bidding sheet if they choose.

Tell everyone who asks where the bidding went.

Explain that you got $1000, but that the buyer disappeared.

Tell them all you'll take the high bid, again.

There will be a lot of people with bidder's remorse who will wish they 
had bid more the first time.

Keep us posted.

Bill Effros
Author

\
Lou Anderson wrote:
> Bill,
> thanks for the reply.
> I lost part of my text in my first post.
> What I meant to type was that my 2nd  highest bidder
> was only $500 lower than the highest bidder.
> She has also gone awol.
> My 3rd highest bidder was $7000 less than 1st bidder.
> I'm so flustered now I'm ready to start over with a new magic # of 
> $49,500.
> Prior # of first sale was $74,500.
> I'm still hoping my buyers will come through, but my backup strategy 
> is to hold sale #2
> this weekend...Thanks!
>
> /*
> */Get a 30 Day Free Trial at www.sunandmoonmoney.com 
> <http://www.sunandmoonmoney.com/>. Our comp plan pays a commission of 
> $400 - $600 per sale./*
> */View the video NOW at www.sunandmoonmoney.com 
> <http://www.sunandmoonmoney.com/>/**/ . /*

?


?




Get a 30 Day Free Trial at?www.sunandmoonmoney.com. Our comp plan pays a commission of $400 - $600 per sale.
View the video NOW at www.sunandmoonmoney.com?. 
?
Lou Anderson


      
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From EVoth at sjm.com  Wed Mar 18 14:47:07 2009
From: EVoth at sjm.com (Voth, Eric)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 13:47:07 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] sales in Minneapolis-St Paul, Minnesota?
Message-ID: <BC19A2296C530D4987080AAA01BE4B24010DCD35@USSPPEXC01.ad.sjm.com>

Hello,

 

I am preparing my home for listing, but have not yet signed with a
realtor.  I would be curious to know how many other sales in the Twin
Cities metro area have completed in 5 days using this method in the last
12 months.  And can anyone point me to contact info for some sellers who
might be willing to share their experiences?

 

Thanks,

Eric

This communication, including any attachments, may contain information that is proprietary, privileged, confidential or legally exempt from disclosure.  If you are not a named addressee, you are hereby notified that you are not authorized to read, print, retain a copy of or disseminate any portion of this communication without the consent of the sender and that doing so may be unlawful.  If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender via return e-mail and delete it from your system.
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From glendav24 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 19 05:10:21 2009
From: glendav24 at yahoo.com (V Glenda)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 02:10:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [5-DayForum] Pricing
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1585.1237229665.1212.5-dayforum@mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
References: <mailman.1585.1237229665.1212.5-dayforum@mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Message-ID: <219661.63723.qm@web111307.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

HI!  All-
I'm going through with our 5 day sale scheduled this weekend, by the looks of the responses we got it does not look like the folks calling me will be able to afford our ultimate price, never mind what we want, but the coop board's requirement.  It is still too early to tell, I know so I am keeping my fingers crossed.  Some even gone as far as discouraging others to respond to the ad because the price is just too low for NYC...they are making assumptions that the place is roach infested, etc..

________________________________
From: "5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com" <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:54:25 PM
Subject: 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 25

Send 5-DayForum mailing list submissions to
    5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
    http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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You can reach the person managing the list at
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of 5-DayForum digest..."
Today's Topics:

   1.  Pricing? (Sean Folkson)
   2.  Pricing (Sean Folkson)
   3. Re: Pricing (Steven Herbert)
   4. Re: Pricing (Naji)
   5. Re: Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan (Jo Ann Kelty)
   6. Re: Pricing (Tom Wilson)
   7. My 5 Day Sale (Wade Fenner)
   8. Re: Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan (Naji)
   9. Re: Realtor Attendance (Kyle Cascioli)
  10. Re: Pricing? (Bill Effros)
  11. Re: Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan (Bill Effros)
  12. Re: Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan (Jo Ann Kelty)
  13. Re: Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan (Jo Ann Kelty)
  14. Re: My 5 Day Sale (Bill Effros)
  15. Re: Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan (Bill Effros)


-----Inline Message Follows-----

Bill,

great post.  I'm glad you welcome such exchange as I believe it really does help.

Tom, maybe I'm on the leading edge of a tweak for book version 4 or 5.  Or, maybe not.  No idea just yet.

Bill, just so I'm clear (I don't have the book here with me, it's back in NYC), what is the exact pricing strategy you advocate?

Here is what I remember (and what we did):  The idea I remember is that we were to take our most realistic idea of what the property is worth, multiply that by 50%, and then round down to the next magic number.  That's how we got from $380K (what we thought it was worth), to $190K ($380K times 50%), and then our advertising price of $174,500 (rounding down to next magic number).

My feeling is if we had advertised at $250K - $300K, we might have been better off.  Again, still a steal, but at least visible and alluring to those with the budget (and pre-approval) we needed to sell near our target price (which was kind of justified after we listed with the realtor).

tx
sean




-----Inline Message Follows-----

Bill, 

just saw your post where you say:

"
If you buy Sean's story, why is he using the 5-Day
Method again? "

The story is believable and verifiable, you can search the
real estate records to see the final sale of the property, and I still
have names and numbers (and E-mail addresses) from bidders who
attended.  I guess you could say I'm not using the 5-Day Method
again.  I'm just using a substantial part of the ideas in the
book.  Since pricing is such an important part, if I'm following
everything but the pricing (and I am), I'll let others decide if it's
accurate to say I'm using the method again.

However anybody views it, I think that, in my particular circumstance, I
will give myself the best chance of selling this house for the highest $
amount using ALL of Bill's advice with the single exception of how I
advertise the price, and the fact that I will not take any bids if none
of them meet my advertised price.

Whether anybody feels I'm using the method or not for this next sale is
semantics.  I would say I am, but with different pricing....Bill
might feel I'm not because pricing is so critical, that once I do my own
thing there, it's no longer his method.  I totally understand that
point of view.

I loved the process, just didn't attract people willing to bid what we
wanted.  Bill may be right.  Maybe people knew we had a number
in mind we just wouldn't sell at.  But, I did believe we'd sell to
the high bidder, because I believed our high bidder would get into the
mid $300K range.  We had every intention of selling right on the
spot.

I was floored when the bidding stopped cold at $326,500.  But, you
can't get blood from a stone.  The people that were bidding couldn't
go higher.

Ultimately, we listed with a realtor who came to our open house, and who
heard about it from his client (who was the 2nd highest bidder).  We
listed at $389K, and as the market continued to drop through Sept, we
dropped our listing price to the $358K range, and had multiple offers.

Again, we just didn't have the right budgets involved in the bidding
process.  



-----Inline Message Follows-----


I just had my 5-day sale this weekend. Nobody put down
a bid!!

My take is that they didn't believe I would sell the
house for less and they knew it was worth more ... a
lot lot more than the "teaser price." 

And on arrival, they're not prepared for the
full-figured amount. The papers I handed to them say
they need to sign the agreement on Monday! 

The price shock and the Monday aspect was too much. 
If I had to do this again .... I would price
differently. Banks aren't lending their money out.
People are afraid to spend. Investors that called me
didn't want to waste their time ... they don't want to
pay for what a house is worth--they want a Steal!

Steven

--- Sean Folkson <sean at folkson.com> wrote:


---------------------------------
Bill, 

just saw your post where you say:

"
If you buy Sean's story, why is he using the
5-DayMethod again? "The story is believable and
verifiable, you can search thereal estate records to
see the final sale of the property, and I stillhave
names and numbers (and E-mail addresses) from bidders
whoattended.  I guess you could say I'm not using the
5-Day Methodagain.  I'm just using a substantial part
of the ideas in thebook.  Since pricing is such an
important part, if I'm followingeverything but the
pricing (and I am), I'll let others decide if
it'saccurate to say I'm using the method again.However
anybody views it, I think that, in my particular
circumstance, Iwill give myself the best chance of
selling this house for the highest $amount using ALL
of Bill's advice with the single exception of how
Iadvertise the price, and the fact that I will not
take any bids if noneof them meet my advertised
price.Whether anybody feels I'm using the method or
not for this next sale issemantics.  I would say I am,
but with different pricing....Billmight feel I'm not
because pricing is so critical, that once I do my
ownthing there, it's no longer his method.  I totally
understand thatpoint of view.I loved the process, just
didn't attract people willing to bid what wewanted. 
Bill may be right.  Maybe people knew we had a
numberin mind we just wouldn't sell at.  But, I did
believe we'd sell tothe high bidder, because I
believed our high bidder would get into themid $300K
range.  We had every intention of selling right on
thespot.I was floored when the bidding stopped cold at
$326,500.  But, youcan't get blood from a stone.  The
people that were bidding couldn'tgo higher.Ultimately,
we listed with a realtor who came to our open house,
and whoheard about it from his client (who was the 2nd
highest bidder).  Welisted at $389K, and as the market
continued to drop through Sept, wedropped our listing
price to the $358K range, and had multiple
offers.Again, we just didn't have the right budgets
involved in the biddingprocess.  >
_______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> 



      



-----Inline Message Follows-----

Where are you located?

-----Original Message-----
From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl..rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of Steven Herbert
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 12:59 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Pricing


I just had my 5-day sale this weekend. Nobody put down
a bid!!

My take is that they didn't believe I would sell the
house for less and they knew it was worth more ... a
lot lot more than the "teaser price." 

And on arrival, they're not prepared for the
full-figured amount. The papers I handed to them say
they need to sign the agreement on Monday! 

The price shock and the Monday aspect was too much. 
If I had to do this again ... I would price
differently. Banks aren't lending their money out.
People are afraid to spend. Investors that called me
didn't want to waste their time ... they don't want to
pay for what a house is worth--they want a Steal!

Steven

--- Sean Folkson <sean at folkson.com> wrote:


---------------------------------
Bill, 

just saw your post where you say:

"
If you buy Sean's story, why is he using the
5-DayMethod again? "The story is believable and
verifiable, you can search thereal estate records to
see the final sale of the property, and I stillhave
names and numbers (and E-mail addresses) from bidders
whoattended.  I guess you could say I'm not using the
5-Day Methodagain.  I'm just using a substantial part
of the ideas in thebook.  Since pricing is such an
important part, if I'm followingeverything but the
pricing (and I am), I'll let others decide if
it'saccurate to say I'm using the method again.However
anybody views it, I think that, in my particular
circumstance, Iwill give myself the best chance of
selling this house for the highest $amount using ALL
of Bill's advice with the single exception of how
Iadvertise the price, and the fact that I will not
take any bids if noneof them meet my advertised
price.Whether anybody feels I'm using the method or
not for this next sale issemantics.  I would say I am,
but with different pricing.....Billmight feel I'm not
because pricing is so critical, that once I do my
ownthing there, it's no longer his method.  I totally
understand thatpoint of view.I loved the process, just
didn't attract people willing to bid what wewanted. 
Bill may be right.  Maybe people knew we had a
numberin mind we just wouldn't sell at.  But, I did
believe we'd sell tothe high bidder, because I
believed our high bidder would get into themid $300K
range.  We had every intention of selling right on
thespot.I was floored when the bidding stopped cold at
$326,500.  But, youcan't get blood from a stone.  The
people that were bidding couldn'tgo higher.Ultimately,
we listed with a realtor who came to our open house,
and whoheard about it from his client (who was the 2nd
highest bidder).  Welisted at $389K, and as the market
continued to drop through Sept, wedropped our listing
price to the $358K range, and had multiple
offers.Again, we just didn't have the right budgets
involved in the biddingprocess.  >
_______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> 



      
_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum





-----Inline Message Follows-----


The one option that you did not mention was a Loan Modification.  This can reduce your interest rate thereby reducing your monthly payment so that you can afford to stay in your home.  In some cases but not all the principal amount can also be reducuded.. If you would like more information regarding if you can qualify please contact me.  
 
Jo Ann Kelty 
joannkelty8 at gmail.com
 
407-610-0736  
407-756-6371  cell


On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:

Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan


March 14, 2009
Your Money
By RON LIEBER
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/l/ron_lieber/index.html?inline=nyt-per)

If you?re among the millions of people who will not qualify for the
Obama administration?s program to help troubled homeowners, you?re
probably wondering what you?re supposed to do now.

Perhaps you no longer have enough income to pay your loans
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier).
Or you can afford the payments but don?t qualify for refinancing under
the new plan because the value of your home is too far below the balance
of the loan. If you?re far enough underwater, you?re probably
questioning the wisdom of writing a monthly check on a place that may
take 10 or 15 years to get back to the value it had two or three years
ago. It isn?t easy to come up with the answer, and if you have moral
misgivings about not making good on your mortgage
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/mortgages/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier),
a religious officiant may offer as much useful guidance as a financial
planner
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/planning/financial-planners/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier).

In an economic environment like this one, however, the consequences of
giving up on your mortgage may not be as painful as they were a few
years ago. Yes, it?s almost always preferable to negotiate a better deal
on your existing mortgage than to walk away. But if you can?t work
things out with your lender, you probably won?t be sued. You shouldn?t
receive a major tax bill either. And the damage to your credit will not
be permanent or insurmountable.

Let?s look at these last three in order.

YOUR LENDER First off, let?s define what we mean by ?giving up? on your
current mortgage. It may mean trying for a short sale
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/s/short_selling/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier),
where the lender allows you to sell your home for less than the mortgage
amount. You may also hand over the deed to the home in exchange for the
lender agreeing not to start foreclosure proceedings (a ?deed in lieu?
in industry terms). Then, there?s foreclosure itself, and the
possibility that bankruptcy judges may soon have the power to adjust the
terms of primary mortgages.

That said, just because you?re ineligible under the Obama plan doesn?t
mean that your lender or servicer won?t ultimately adjust your mortgage
anyhow. Collectively, there are enough people in trouble or under water
on their loans that they have plenty of leverage if they?re willing to
play chicken with their lender and threaten to stop paying.

The problem is, the lender can play chicken, too, by threatening to come
after you for the balance of any money you owe ? whether it?s the
difference between what you sell the property for yourself and the
remaining mortgage, or the loan amount left over after the lender sells
your property in foreclosure.

The lender may not follow through, though. ?What our membership is
telling us is that it can be cost-prohibitive to chase down a borrower
who is already in financial distress,? said John Mechem, a spokesman for
the Mortgage Bankers Association. ?You can?t squeeze blood from a
stone.? They may, however, still come after people with high incomes who
walk away from jumbo loans that are way under water or loans on
investment
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/investments/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
properties.

Some states have laws that may specifically prohibit lenders from
pursuing borrowers for the balance of many mortgage loans after
foreclosure, though the particulars vary. Arizona and California are
among these states, according to Steven Bender, a professor at the
University of Oregon
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/u/university_of_oregon/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
School of Law. It?s best to talk to a lawyer to determine your state?s
rules.

In fact, if you want to be sure your lender (or a collection agency that
it may sell your loan to) won?t chase you down, it?s a good idea to have
a lawyer involved with any short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure
itself. ?You must get the bank to agree in writing that any deficiency
is waived,? said Chip Parker, a lawyer specializing in foreclosure with
Parker & DuFresne in Jacksonville, Fla.

The biggest challenge here may simply be finding someone at the bank to
help. Having a second mortgage will also complicate matters.

YOUR TAXES You also need to consider the taxman. Often, forgiven debts
are taxable as income. Recent legislative changes, however, eliminate
the federal tax burden through 2012 on most primary residence debt that
a lender has reduced through loan restructuring or forgiven during
foreclosure.

Mark Luscombe, principal analyst for CCH, a tax information service,
said that people who sell their home through a short sale or give up the
deed in lieu of foreclosure can also qualify for tax relief if they use
a special tax form, 1099-C, that reflects the amount of debt that the
lender has forgiven.

People who live in states with their own income taxes may avoid a big
bill as well. Some states, like Arizona and California, have introduced
or passed legislation that echoes the federal laws, according to the
National Conference of State Legislatures. Many others tend to mimic
most or all federal income tax laws as a general rule, according to CCH.
Check with an accountant in your state to be sure.

YOUR CREDIT A short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure itself will almost
certainly damage your credit report and score, and the black mark will
last for up to seven years. But the amount of damage it does will depend
on how much other credit trouble you?ve gotten yourself into with other
lenders.

If you?re giving up the home you own, you?ll probably need to rent soon
afterward. Will landlords turn you away once they check your credit and
discover your troubled mortgage? ?If it?s the only thing marring their
credit, it?s probably not a big issue,? said Clay Powell, the director
of the Rental Property Owners Association of Michigan, who added that
good tenants could be scarce in economic environments like this one.

In fact, Todd J. Zywicki, a law professor at George Mason University,
predicted that FICO may have to adjust its credit scores
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-scores/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
to lessen the impact of a foreclosure or similar incident. ?It just
seems obvious that a foreclosure in 2008 or 2009 doesn?t have as much
information value as a foreclosure five years ago,? he said. ?To the
extent that foreclosure doesn?t predict future behavior as much as it
did in the past, you?d expect that the FICO algorithm would change to
adjust for that.?

Craig Watts, a spokesman for FICO, said that was an interesting idea.
?We try not to get involved too much in psychobabble around what is and
isn?t predictive,? he said. ?If the numbers show that foreclosure is
less predictive, then we?ll take it into account in future
redevelopments of the formula.? That would take a minimum of two to
three years, though.

Some lenders aren?t waiting that long to initiate their own foreclosure
destigmatization programs. The Golden 1, one of the nation?s largest
credit unions, now has a mortgage repair loan for people who have lost a
home to foreclosure but want to buy a new one.

It?s hard to imagine that there won?t be a parade of insurance
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/insurance/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
companies, credit card
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-and-debit-cards/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
issuers and mortgage lenders in Golden 1?s wake, even though Fannie Mae
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/fannie_mae/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
and Freddie Mac
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/freddie_mac/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
may be unwilling to guarantee the mortgages of such borrowers for
several years. In fact, Aaron Bresko, the vice president of lending for
BECU, another large credit union based in Washington State, is putting
together a panel called ?How to Lend to the Newly Credit Impaired? for a
conference later this year.

?Good people have bad things happen to them, so how do you find those
people and reach out to them?? he said. ?As the year progresses, it?s
going to be an emerging market.?

How are you handling your mortgage problems?
Write to rlieber at nytimes.com.

_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum



-----Inline Message Follows-----


I would say you are not using the 5-Day Sale Method, but
attempting to improve on the real deal.  More than just the stipulations
in the method, there is a relaxed openness that has to give everyone who walks
in the door confidence and must capture their trust to spend the time on a
bid.  There is no way to create that atmosphere without being completely
genuine and enjoying the process.  What you?re introducing with a
higher price and moreso with telling everyone that you will take no less than x
price are things which will reduce your bidders and I know you desire a
reduction of those who couldn?t qualify, but this begins to take away
that sense of openness that I believe Bill?s process intends to create.  When
they see some exceptions, such as no lower than, you might get a different
response to the ad and a different response from those who attend
inspection.  You will never know how your change may make your sale more
difficult or less profitable because it will be the absence of possibly just
one or two people who may have made the difference.
 
If this is the way you want to run it, more power to you, but
understand in my opinion it goes against some of the foundational tenets of the
5-Day Method.   If it works enough that you feel good after its over
then that?s great, but in the long run, I prefer 5-Day Method to the
attempts others make to try to improve on it and I wouldn?t call yours by
the same name.
 
Best of Luck,
 
Tom in Texas
 
From:5-dayforum-bounces+tomwilson64=yahoo.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+tomwilson64=yahoo.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Sean Folkson
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 11:10 AM
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Subject: [5-DayForum] Pricing
 
Bill, 

just saw your post where you say:

"
If you buy Sean's story, why is he using the 5-Day
Method again? "
  
The story is believable and verifiable, you can search the
real estate records to see the final sale of the property, and I still
have names and numbers (and E-mail addresses) from bidders who
attended.  I guess you could say I'm not using the 5-Day Method
again.  I'm just using a substantial part of the ideas in the
book.  Since pricing is such an important part, if I'm following
everything but the pricing (and I am), I'll let others decide if it's
accurate to say I'm using the method again.
  
However anybody views it, I think that, in my particular circumstance, I
will give myself the best chance of selling this house for the highest $
amount using ALL of Bill's advice with the single exception of how I
advertise the price, and the fact that I will not take any bids if none
of them meet my advertised price.
  
Whether anybody feels I'm using the method or not for this next sale is
semantics.  I would say I am, but with different pricing....Bill
might feel I'm not because pricing is so critical, that once I do my own
thing there, it's no longer his method.  I totally understand that
point of view.
  
I loved the process, just didn't attract people willing to bid what we
wanted.  Bill may be right.  Maybe people knew we had a number
in mind we just wouldn't sell at.  But, I did believe we'd sell to
the high bidder, because I believed our high bidder would get into the
mid $300K range..  We had every intention of selling right on the
spot.
  
I was floored when the bidding stopped cold at $326,500.  But, you
can't get blood from a stone.  The people that were bidding couldn't
go higher.
  
Ultimately, we listed with a realtor who came to our open house, and who
heard about it from his client (who was the 2nd highest bidder).  We
listed at $389K, and as the market continued to drop through Sept, we
dropped our listing price to the $358K range, and had multiple offers.
  
Again, we just didn't have the right budgets involved in the bidding
process.  
  

-----Inline Message Follows-----


Well I just held my 5 Day Sale and here 
is how it went:
 
 
Location: Edmonton AB Canada pop. 
incl area over 1,000,000
 
Property: 2 storey three bedroom 
townhouse, one bath, developed basement, fully renovated 18 months ago with 
everything done & new appliances. It looks Great....and repainted last fall 
when the tenant moved out.
 
Price: Listed at $94,500 with an 
expected net of at lease $170-180. (My guess is the property could sell for 
around 180-185 with a realtor so my expectation was pretty low in my opinion but 
I was willing to accept a net after commissions etc)
 
Advertising: 
 
	* I placed a 2 column wide by 2.25 " high display ad  in the real estate section as per the book example. The ad was to run wed,  thur, fri, sat, sun as instructed. The newspaper co. messed up and did not get  my ad in by wed so I doubled up the ad for thur & fri by placing the ad in  the very front section of the paper. Total cost  $1,900.
	* Kijiji, Craigs list and in my monthly re group  website
 
Signs: I had 20 signs made up 24' 
wide by 18" high that read (House Auction, To Be Sold Sunday Night, Higgest 
Bidder, Inspection: Sat & Sunday, Ph & email address) these were made up 
as per exaples on the site (bright yellow, red, etc). These were set up on 
street poles on Wed afternoon. Plus 2 24 x 60 signs attached to my truck on the 
main road leading to my unit. Cost about $4-500
 
Calls: By Friday morning I 
had 20+ calls (remember my ad only cale out Thurs. By Sat noon I had over 30 
calls, by sat night I had 45 calls, by sun noon around 50 calls.
 
Open House: Sat 7-8 different 
parties showed up with 2 bids on the bid sheet. Sun about 20 parties & a 
total of 12 bids.
 
 
Bidding: 4 peopled bailed 
immediately.. 3-4 bailed in the first 3-4 rounds, finally few bailed in the 
next few rounds with the last person sitting at $163k. There was only one 
serious bidder.
 
Conclusion: I need more than 
one serious bidder to get the price up. Was I impressed? No, not by the results 
but the process has got my attention and I will do it again but 
probably with a modification or two I'm just not sure what yet. I spent good 
money on ads & signs $2,500. and had a very low expectation of 
price......
 
Cheers,
 
Wade Fenner
 
 

-----Inline Message Follows-----


Loan modifications without an actual principal reduction to current market valuation only benefits the banks, period! You?re better off walking away or doing a
short sale than prolonging the inevitable.
 
BTW, Loan Modification programs are being
pushed (mostly) by the same banks and mortgage brokers that were giving away
billions of dollars to unqualified buyers during the peak? It?s amazing that
the same crooks that were telling a person making 40K a year they can afford a
500K home with 0 down are the same ones getting into the loan modification
business.
 
-Naji
 
 
---------- From my previous posting
----------
 
Anyone that purchased a home or refinanced
(and tapped their equity) in the last 5 years or so in many parts of the
country (if not all of the country) is upside down on their mortgage, i.e house
worth less than what?s owed on it, or are falling behind on payments:
 
So what are the options if you?re in that
situation:
 
	1. Reinstatement - Determine the amount owed necessary to bring loan current. 
	* This just prolongs the inevitable? If the house is worth much less, especially in hard hit areas, expect to stay put for many many years before you break even. So, you may find yourself in the same situation a few month or years from now 
	2. Forbearance - Set up a payment plan to bring the loan current. 
	* Another option that?s not really going to work? If someone cannot pay now, how will he be able to become current with more payments. 
	3. Modification - Adjust the loan terms (interest rate, payment and length).
	* Loan modification only benefits the banks at this point? They just tack it on to the back end of the mortgage. 
	* This will only work if banks actually reduce the principal to match current value. Unfortunately, less than 1% of loan modifications result in principal reductions. 
	4. Deed-in-lieu - Give the property back to the lender. 
	* Works if the lender agrees to it and there aren?t 2nd, 3rd, etc liens
	5. Walk Away - Leave the property in the most beneficial way possible. 
	* Stay as long as you can in the home ? You can stay at least 8 months before it goes to the bank and in states like Florida , expect to stay almost 2 years. 
	* Don?t pay the mortgage, but instead save it all so you can rebuild your life 
	* When it?s judgment time, find a place to rent and plan on renting for a while 
	* You could also offload your property to someone as well 
	6. Short Sale - List the property for less than the amount owed. 
	* You can negotiate a short sale with your bank? You can do it yourself or hire someone to do it on you behalf. It?s really not that difficult, all it takes is communicating with your lender 
	* Many banks are getting easier to work with while others are still in dreamville 
	* Expect this to take months due to the bank backlogs. Also, some banks want to see the property on the market for at least 90 days before agreeing to anything. Then they do their own BPO (which is still out of whack) and wait like everyone else thinking they can get all their money back? 
	7. Refinance - Obtain a new loan to replace the current loan(s). 
	* Will not work unless you?re going to bring a big chunk of change to the table.
	8. Excess Proceeds- Collecting excess money from the auction/sale of the property. 
	* Wait until the property goes to the auction block and if there?s any money left after the 1st Lien holder is paid, you may get something back? Doubtful in many cases since all the homes going back are worth less than the mortgage 
	9. Postponements - Delay the auction/sale date of the property. 
	* Delay the public auction of the property while you try to figure something out 
	* This will only buy you time and you?ll still have to face the music later 
	10. Stay In Your Home - Continue living in your current home.
	* If you can afford the payments and are willing to stick it out for 10 years or more, then just stay put 
 
-Naji
 
 

________________________________
 
From:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Jo Ann Kelty
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 1:25
PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts
on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
 
The one option that you did not mention was a Loan Modification. 
This can reduce your interest rate thereby reducing your monthly payment so
that you can afford to stay in your home.  In some cases but not all the
principal amount can also be reducuded.. If you would like more information
regarding if you can qualify please contact me.  
 
Jo Ann Kelty 
joannkelty8 at gmail.com
 
407-610-0736  
407-756-6371  cell
On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan


March 14, 2009
Your Money
By RON LIEBER
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/l/ron_lieber/index.html?inline=nyt-per)

If you?re among the millions of people who will not qualify for the
Obama administration?s program to help troubled homeowners, you?re
probably wondering what you?re supposed to do now.

Perhaps you no longer have enough income to pay your loans
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier).
Or you can afford the payments but don?t qualify for refinancing under
the new plan because the value of your home is too far below the balance
of the loan. If you?re far enough underwater, you?re probably
questioning the wisdom of writing a monthly check on a place that may
take 10 or 15 years to get back to the value it had two or three years
ago. It isn?t easy to come up with the answer, and if you have moral
misgivings about not making good on your mortgage
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/mortgages/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier),
a religious officiant may offer as much useful guidance as a financial
planner
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/planning/financial-planners/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier).

In an economic environment like this one, however, the consequences of
giving up on your mortgage may not be as painful as they were a few
years ago. Yes, it?s almost always preferable to negotiate a better deal
on your existing mortgage than to walk away. But if you can?t work
things out with your lender, you probably won?t be sued. You shouldn?t
receive a major tax bill either.. And the damage to your credit will not
be permanent or insurmountable.

Let?s look at these last three in order.

YOUR LENDER First off, let?s define what we mean by ?giving up? on your
current mortgage. It may mean trying for a short sale
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/s/short_selling/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier),
where the lender allows you to sell your home for less than the mortgage
amount. You may also hand over the deed to the home in exchange for the
lender agreeing not to start foreclosure proceedings (a ?deed in lieu?
in industry terms). Then, there?s foreclosure itself, and the
possibility that bankruptcy judges may soon have the power to adjust the
terms of primary mortgages.

That said, just because you?re ineligible under the Obama plan doesn?t
mean that your lender or servicer won?t ultimately adjust your mortgage
anyhow. Collectively, there are enough people in trouble or under water
on their loans that they have plenty of leverage if they?re willing to
play chicken with their lender and threaten to stop paying.

The problem is, the lender can play chicken, too, by threatening to come
after you for the balance of any money you owe ? whether it?s the
difference between what you sell the property for yourself and the
remaining mortgage, or the loan amount left over after the lender sells
your property in foreclosure.

The lender may not follow through, though. ?What our membership is
telling us is that it can be cost-prohibitive to chase down a borrower
who is already in financial distress,? said John Mechem, a spokesman for
the Mortgage Bankers Association. ?You can?t squeeze blood from a
stone.? They may, however, still come after people with high incomes who
walk away from jumbo loans that are way under water or loans on
investment
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/investments/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
properties.

Some states have laws that may specifically prohibit lenders from
pursuing borrowers for the balance of many mortgage loans after
foreclosure, though the particulars vary. Arizona 
and California 
are
among these states, according to Steven Bender, a professor at the
University of Oregon
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/u/university_of_oregon/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
School of Law . It?s best to talk to a lawyer to
determine your state?s
rules.

In fact, if you want to be sure your lender (or a collection agency that
it may sell your loan to) won?t chase you down, it?s a good idea to have
a lawyer involved with any short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure
itself. ?You must get the bank to agree in writing that any deficiency
is waived,? said Chip Parker, a lawyer specializing in foreclosure with
Parker & DuFresne in Jacksonville , Fla.

The biggest challenge here may simply be finding someone at the bank to
help. Having a second mortgage will also complicate matters.

YOUR TAXES You also need to consider the taxman. Often, forgiven debts
are taxable as income. Recent legislative changes, however, eliminate
the federal tax burden through 2012 on most primary residence debt that
a lender has reduced through loan restructuring or forgiven during
foreclosure.

Mark Luscombe, principal analyst for CCH, a tax information service,
said that people who sell their home through a short sale or give up the
deed in lieu of foreclosure can also qualify for tax relief if they use
a special tax form, 1099-C, that reflects the amount of debt that the
lender has forgiven.

People who live in states with their own income taxes may avoid a big
bill as well. Some states, like Arizona and California , have
introduced
or passed legislation that echoes the federal laws, according to the
National Conference of State Legislatures. Many others tend to mimic
most or all federal income tax laws as a general rule, according to CCH.
Check with an accountant in your state to be sure.

YOUR CREDIT A short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure itself will almost
certainly damage your credit report and score, and the black mark will
last for up to seven years. But the amount of damage it does will depend
on how much other credit trouble you?ve gotten yourself into with other
lenders.

If you?re giving up the home you own, you?ll probably need to rent soon
afterward. Will landlords turn you away once they check your credit and
discover your troubled mortgage? ?If it?s the only thing marring their
credit, it?s probably not a big issue,? said Clay Powell, the director
of the Rental Property Owners Association of Michigan, who added that
good tenants could be scarce in economic environments like this one.

In fact, Todd J. Zywicki, a law professor at George Mason  University ,
predicted that FICO may have to adjust its credit scores
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-scores/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
to lessen the impact of a foreclosure or similar incident. ?It just
seems obvious that a foreclosure in 2008 or 2009 doesn?t have as much
information value as a foreclosure five years ago,? he said. ?To the
extent that foreclosure doesn?t predict future behavior as much as it
did in the past, you?d expect that the FICO algorithm would change to
adjust for that.?

Craig Watts, a spokesman for FICO, said that was an interesting idea.
?We try not to get involved too much in psychobabble around what is and
isn?t predictive,? he said. ?If the numbers show that foreclosure is
less predictive, then we?ll take it into account in future
redevelopments of the formula.? That would take a minimum of two to
three years, though.

Some lenders aren?t waiting that long to initiate their own foreclosure
destigmatization programs. The Golden 1, one of the nation?s largest
credit unions, now has a mortgage repair loan for people who have lost a
home to foreclosure but want to buy a new one.

It?s hard to imagine that there won?t be a parade of insurance
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/insurance/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
companies, credit card
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-and-debit-cards/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
issuers and mortgage lenders in Golden 1?s wake, even though Fannie Mae
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/fannie_mae/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
and Freddie Mac
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/freddie_mac/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
may be unwilling to guarantee the mortgages of such borrowers for
several years. In fact, Aaron Bresko, the vice president of lending for
BECU, another large credit union based in Washington State ,
is putting
together a panel called ?How to Lend to the Newly Credit Impaired? for a
conference later this year.

?Good people have bad things happen to them, so how do you find those
people and reach out to them?? he said. ?As the year progresses, it?s
going to be an emerging market.?

How are you handling your mortgage problems?
Write to rlieber at nytimes.com.

_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
 

-----Inline Message Follows-----

Agreed ... we offer 2% to the bidders agent if they have pre-registered their client on our site.
 
This is the same percentage that the national auction firms pay to the outside.
 
Kyle Cascioli
www.AuctionByAgent.com 
 
________________________________
 From: nkhouri at cfl.rr.com
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 10:50:12 -0400
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Realtor Attendance


Realtors don?t find buyers? Buyers find the Realtors and use their service to buy. You can always offer a commission for a Realtor that brings you a buyer and add a buyer?s premium to the mix.
 
-Naji
 

________________________________
 
From:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Kyle Vandegriff
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 11:48 PM
To: 5-dayforum at howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Subject: [5-DayForum] Realtor Attendance
 
Hello all.  I?m wondering if it is advisable to try to entice realtors to attend my 5-day with clients looking to buy the type of house I?m offering.  I know I?m not supposed to protect the broker, but I feel this might help to get the real buyers to the house. The only reason I?m considering this action is because I?ve painted myself into a corner.  I really really need to sell my house the weekend I?m offering it because of a forced move (military).  I live in a fairly rural and economically depressed town in south Texas and am concerned about the lack of volume of home sales in the area over the past year.
 
In my situation I feel it might be a good tradeoff to potentially have to pay a small commission to make the sale happen vs. certainly having to pay a large one if the real buyers don?t turn out.  Or is this just normal pre-sale jitters and I should stick to the book?
 
What sort of minimum commission or flat fee would be sufficient to entice them to attend (about a $100,000 house)? 
 
Thanks!
 
-Kyle
 
________________________________
Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail?. See how. 

-----Inline Message Follows-----

Sean,

I didn't know where your original post was, either, which was why I didn't respond directly to you.

Here's the deal:

You thought your home was worth at least $380,000, but now (as a direct result of your 5-Day Sale) you know it wasn't worth that much at the time you offered it, and that had you taken the high bid you would have put approximately the same amount in your pocket as you eventually got.

A real estate broker who attended your 5-Day Sale, earned $15,000 to $20,000 by advising his client to not bid more than $326,000 for your home, and then came back to you and told you it was worth $389,000.

You now know the broker knew you would not get $389,000, and should have told your second bidder to advance the bidding, so, of course, you are not inclined to offer another home through that broker -- instead, you plan to offer your second home at a level that will not attract 25 responses by Friday night, and to proceed with a smaller number of bidders in such a way that you will not know the true current value of your home, and you will then move into it.

Why not save yourself the trouble, and just move into the second house?

Many people have tried the "wrong buyers attended--increase the starting price" variation.  They don't get 25 responses by Friday night, and we never hear from them again.

This approach has a long history of failure, and you do new sellers a disservice by advocating it before you have tried it.

The 5-Day Method worked for you, even though you were not prepared to accept the current market value.  If the high price had been $355,000 you wouldn't have taken that either, because you were convinced the "real" price should have been greater than $380,000.  At some point you started weaseling about whether you were REALLY going to sell at the high price -- and as soon as you started to do that, the real buyers knew it was time to walk away from the bidding.

Now you propose to do the same thing again. 
Don't!

Either run a 5-Day Sale properly and then take the high bid; or move into the house and enjoy it because you are not prepared to accept the current market value.

Bill Effros
Author











Sean Folkson wrote:
> Bill,
> 
> great post.  I'm glad you welcome such exchange as I believe it really does help.
> 
> Tom, maybe I'm on the leading edge of a tweak for book version 4 or 5.  Or, maybe not.  No idea just yet.
> 
> Bill, just so I'm clear (I don't have the book here with me, it's back in NYC), what is the exact pricing strategy you advocate?
> 
> Here is what I remember (and what we did):  The idea I remember is that we were to take our most realistic idea of what the property is worth, multiply that by 50%, and then round down to the next magic number.  That's how we got from $380K (what we thought it was worth), to $190K ($380K times 50%), and then our advertising price of $174,500 (rounding down to next magic number).
> 
> My feeling is if we had advertised at $250K - $300K, we might have been better off.  Again, still a steal, but at least visible and alluring to those with the budget (and pre-approval) we needed to sell near our target price (which was kind of justified after we listed with the realtor).
> 
> tx
> sean
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> 
>  



-----Inline Message Follows-----

Jo Ann,

My current thinking (and I am open on this) is that for many homeowners
reducing the monthly payments is just a formula for throwing good money
after bad.  This is not the case everywhere, but in many places I
believe they will walk away sooner or later, and sooner is better for
everyone.

Bill Effros
Author



Jo Ann Kelty wrote: 
The one option that you did not mention was a Loan
Modification.  This can reduce your interest rate thereby reducing your
monthly payment so that you can afford to stay in your home.  In some
cases but not all the principal amount can also be reducuded.. If you
would like more information regarding if you can qualify please contact
me.  
 
Jo Ann Kelty 
joannkelty8 at gmail.com
 
407-610-0736  
407-756-6371  cell


On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Bill
Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:

Thoughts
on Walking Away From Your Home Loan


March 14, 2009
Your Money
By RON LIEBER
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/l/ron_lieber/index.html?inline=nyt-per)

If you?re among the millions of people who will not qualify for the
Obama administration?s program to help troubled homeowners, you?re
probably wondering what you?re supposed to do now.

Perhaps you no longer have enough income to pay your loans
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier).
Or you can afford the payments but don?t qualify for refinancing under
the new plan because the value of your home is too far below the balance
of the loan. If you?re far enough underwater, you?re probably
questioning the wisdom of writing a monthly check on a place that may
take 10 or 15 years to get back to the value it had two or three years
ago. It isn?t easy to come up with the answer, and if you have moral
misgivings about not making good on your mortgage
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/mortgages/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier),
a religious officiant may offer as much useful guidance as a financial
planner
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/planning/financial-planners/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier).

In an economic environment like this one, however, the consequences of
giving up on your mortgage may not be as painful as they were a few
years ago. Yes, it?s almost always preferable to negotiate a better deal
on your existing mortgage than to walk away. But if you can?t work
things out with your lender, you probably won?t be sued. You shouldn?t
receive a major tax bill either. And the damage to your credit will not
be permanent or insurmountable.

Let?s look at these last three in order.

YOUR LENDER First off, let?s define what we mean by ?giving up? on your
current mortgage. It may mean trying for a short sale
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/s/short_selling/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier),
where the lender allows you to sell your home for less than the mortgage
amount. You may also hand over the deed to the home in exchange for the
lender agreeing not to start foreclosure proceedings (a ?deed in lieu?
in industry terms). Then, there?s foreclosure itself, and the
possibility that bankruptcy judges may soon have the power to adjust the
terms of primary mortgages.

That said, just because you?re ineligible under the Obama plan doesn?t
mean that your lender or servicer won?t ultimately adjust your mortgage
anyhow. Collectively, there are enough people in trouble or under water
on their loans that they have plenty of leverage if they?re willing to
play chicken with their lender and threaten to stop paying.

The problem is, the lender can play chicken, too, by threatening to come
after you for the balance of any money you owe ? whether it?s the
difference between what you sell the property for yourself and the
remaining mortgage, or the loan amount left over after the lender sells
your property in foreclosure.

The lender may not follow through, though. ?What our membership is
telling us is that it can be cost-prohibitive to chase down a borrower
who is already in financial distress,? said John Mechem, a spokesman for
the Mortgage Bankers Association. ?You can?t squeeze blood from a
stone.? They may, however, still come after people with high incomes who
walk away from jumbo loans that are way under water or loans on
investment
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/investments/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
properties.

Some states have laws that may specifically prohibit lenders from
pursuing borrowers for the balance of many mortgage loans after
foreclosure, though the particulars vary. Arizona and California are
among these states, according to Steven Bender, a professor at the
University of Oregon
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/u/university_of_oregon/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
School of Law. It?s best to talk to a lawyer to determine your state?s
rules.

In fact, if you want to be sure your lender (or a collection agency that
it may sell your loan to) won?t chase you down, it?s a good idea to have
a lawyer involved with any short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure
itself. ?You must get the bank to agree in writing that any deficiency
is waived,? said Chip Parker, a lawyer specializing in foreclosure with
Parker & DuFresne in Jacksonville, Fla.

The biggest challenge here may simply be finding someone at the bank to
help. Having a second mortgage will also complicate matters.

YOUR TAXES You also need to consider the taxman. Often, forgiven debts
are taxable as income. Recent legislative changes, however, eliminate
the federal tax burden through 2012 on most primary residence debt that
a lender has reduced through loan restructuring or forgiven during
foreclosure.

Mark Luscombe, principal analyst for CCH, a tax information service,
said that people who sell their home through a short sale or give up the
deed in lieu of foreclosure can also qualify for tax relief if they use
a special tax form, 1099-C, that reflects the amount of debt that the
lender has forgiven..

People who live in states with their own income taxes may avoid a big
bill as well. Some states, like Arizona and California, have introduced
or passed legislation that echoes the federal laws, according to the
National Conference of State Legislatures. Many others tend to mimic
most or all federal income tax laws as a general rule, according to CCH.
Check with an accountant in your state to be sure.

YOUR CREDIT A short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure itself will almost
certainly damage your credit report and score, and the black mark will
last for up to seven years.. But the amount of damage it does will depend
on how much other credit trouble you?ve gotten yourself into with other
lenders.

If you?re giving up the home you own, you?ll probably need to rent soon
afterward. Will landlords turn you away once they check your credit and
discover your troubled mortgage? ?If it?s the only thing marring their
credit, it?s probably not a big issue,? said Clay Powell, the director
of the Rental Property Owners Association of Michigan, who added that
good tenants could be scarce in economic environments like this one.

In fact, Todd J. Zywicki, a law professor at George Mason University,
predicted that FICO may have to adjust its credit scores
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-scores/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
to lessen the impact of a foreclosure or similar incident. ?It just
seems obvious that a foreclosure in 2008 or 2009 doesn?t have as much
information value as a foreclosure five years ago,? he said. ?To the
extent that foreclosure doesn?t predict future behavior as much as it
did in the past, you?d expect that the FICO algorithm would change to
adjust for that.?

Craig Watts, a spokesman for FICO, said that was an interesting idea.
?We try not to get involved too much in psychobabble around what is and
isn?t predictive,? he said. ?If the numbers show that foreclosure is
less predictive, then we?ll take it into account in future
redevelopments of the formula.? That would take a minimum of two to
three years, though.

Some lenders aren?t waiting that long to initiate their own foreclosure
destigmatization programs. The Golden 1, one of the nation?s largest
credit unions, now has a mortgage repair loan for people who have lost a
home to foreclosure but want to buy a new one.

It?s hard to imagine that there won?t be a parade of insurance
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/insurance/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
companies, credit card
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-and-debit-cards/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
issuers and mortgage lenders in Golden 1?s wake, even though Fannie Mae
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/fannie_mae/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
and Freddie Mac
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/freddie_mac/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
may be unwilling to guarantee the mortgages of such borrowers for
several years. In fact, Aaron Bresko, the vice president of lending for
BECU, another large credit union based in Washington State, is putting
together a panel called ?How to Lend to the Newly Credit Impaired? for a
conference later this year.

?Good people have bad things happen to them, so how do you find those
people and reach out to them?? he said. ?As the year progresses, it?s
going to be an emerging market..?

How are you handling your mortgage problems?
Write to rlieber at nytimes.com.

_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum



________________________________

_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum 

-----Inline Message Follows-----


Naji
 
I work for Attorneys that have a 98% success rate in getting both reduced interest rates and reduction of the principal.. They negotiate with the banks.. If you try to do it directly with the bank you will not have the same success..   If we can not get a Modification the client recieves a 100% refund...  Our mission is to help those that want to stay in thier homes..... and we have helped hundreds of homeowners...
 
Jo Ann


2009/3/16 Naji <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com>

Loan modifications without an actual principal reduction to current market valuation only benefits the banks, period! You?re better off walking away or doing a short sale than prolonging the inevitable.
 
BTW, Loan Modification programs are being pushed (mostly) by the same banks and mortgage brokers that were giving away billions of dollars to unqualified buyers during the peak? It?s amazing that the same crooks that were telling a person making 40K a year they can afford a 500K home with 0 down are the same ones getting into the loan modification business.
 
-Naji
 
 
---------- From my previous posting ----------
 
Anyone that purchased a home or refinanced (and tapped their equity) in the last 5 years or so in many parts of the country (if not all of the country) is upside down on their mortgage, i.e house worth less than what?s owed on it, or are falling behind on payments:
 
So what are the options if you?re in that situation:
 
	1. Reinstatement - Determine the amount owed necessary to bring loan current. 
	* This just prolongs the inevitable? If the house is worth much less, especially in hard hit areas, expect to stay put for many many years before you break even. So, you may find yourself in the same situation a few month or years from now 
	2. Forbearance - Set up a payment plan to bring the loan current. 
	* Another option that?s not really going to work? If someone cannot pay now, how will he be able to become current with more payments. 
	3. Modification - Adjust the loan terms (interest rate, payment and length).
	* Loan modification only benefits the banks at this point? They just tack it on to the back end of the mortgage. 
	* This will only work if banks actually reduce the principal to match current value. Unfortunately, less than 1% of loan modifications result in principal reductions. 
	4. Deed-in-lieu - Give the property back to the lender. 
	* Works if the lender agrees to it and there aren?t 2nd, 3rd, etc liens
	5. Walk Away - Leave the property in the most beneficial way possible. 
	* Stay as long as you can in the home ? You can stay at least 8 months before it goes to the bank and in states like Florida, expect to stay almost 2 years. 
	* Don?t pay the mortgage, but instead save it all so you can rebuild your life 
	* When it?s judgment time, find a place to rent and plan on renting for a while 
	* You could also offload your property to someone as well 
	6. Short Sale - List the property for less than the amount owed. 
	* You can negotiate a short sale with your bank? You can do it yourself or hire someone to do it on you behalf. It?s really not that difficult, all it takes is communicating with your lender 
	* Many banks are getting easier to work with while others are still in dreamville 
	* Expect this to take months due to the bank backlogs. Also, some banks want to see the property on the market for at least 90 days before agreeing to anything. Then they do their own BPO (which is still out of whack) and wait like everyone else thinking they can get all their money back? 
	7. Refinance - Obtain a new loan to replace the current loan(s). 
	* Will not work unless you?re going to bring a big chunk of change to the table.
	8. Excess Proceeds- Collecting excess money from the auction/sale of the property. 
	* Wait until the property goes to the auction block and if there?s any money left after the 1st Lien holder is paid, you may get something back? Doubtful in many cases since all the homes going back are worth less than the mortgage 
	9. Postponements - Delay the auction/sale date of the property.. 
	* Delay the public auction of the property while you try to figure something out 
	* This will only buy you time and you?ll still have to face the music later 
	10. Stay In Your Home - Continue living in your current home.
	* If you can afford the payments and are willing to stick it out for 10 years or more, then just stay put 
 
-Naji
 
 

________________________________
 
From:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Jo Ann Kelty
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 1:25 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
 
The one option that you did not mention was a Loan Modification.  This can reduce your interest rate thereby reducing your monthly payment so that you can afford to stay in your home.  In some cases but not all the principal amount can also be reducuded.. If you would like more information regarding if you can qualify please contact me.  
 
Jo Ann Kelty 
joannkelty8 at gmail.com
 
407-610-0736  
407-756-6371  cell
On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan


March 14, 2009
Your Money
By RON LIEBER
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/l/ron_lieber/index.html?inline=nyt-per)

If you?re among the millions of people who will not qualify for the
Obama administration?s program to help troubled homeowners, you?re
probably wondering what you?re supposed to do now.

Perhaps you no longer have enough income to pay your loans
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier).
Or you can afford the payments but don?t qualify for refinancing under
the new plan because the value of your home is too far below the balance
of the loan. If you?re far enough underwater, you?re probably
questioning the wisdom of writing a monthly check on a place that may
take 10 or 15 years to get back to the value it had two or three years
ago. It isn?t easy to come up with the answer, and if you have moral
misgivings about not making good on your mortgage
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/mortgages/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier),
a religious officiant may offer as much useful guidance as a financial
planner
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/planning/financial-planners/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier).

In an economic environment like this one, however, the consequences of
giving up on your mortgage may not be as painful as they were a few
years ago. Yes, it?s almost always preferable to negotiate a better deal
on your existing mortgage than to walk away. But if you can?t work
things out with your lender, you probably won?t be sued. You shouldn?t
receive a major tax bill either.. And the damage to your credit will not
be permanent or insurmountable.

Let?s look at these last three in order.

YOUR LENDER First off, let?s define what we mean by ?giving up? on your
current mortgage. It may mean trying for a short sale
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/s/short_selling/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier),
where the lender allows you to sell your home for less than the mortgage
amount. You may also hand over the deed to the home in exchange for the
lender agreeing not to start foreclosure proceedings (a ?deed in lieu?
in industry terms). Then, there?s foreclosure itself, and the
possibility that bankruptcy judges may soon have the power to adjust the
terms of primary mortgages.

That said, just because you?re ineligible under the Obama plan doesn?t
mean that your lender or servicer won?t ultimately adjust your mortgage
anyhow. Collectively, there are enough people in trouble or under water
on their loans that they have plenty of leverage if they?re willing to
play chicken with their lender and threaten to stop paying.

The problem is, the lender can play chicken, too, by threatening to come
after you for the balance of any money you owe ? whether it?s the
difference between what you sell the property for yourself and the
remaining mortgage, or the loan amount left over after the lender sells
your property in foreclosure.

The lender may not follow through, though. ?What our membership is
telling us is that it can be cost-prohibitive to chase down a borrower
who is already in financial distress,? said John Mechem, a spokesman for
the Mortgage Bankers Association. ?You can?t squeeze blood from a
stone.? They may, however, still come after people with high incomes who
walk away from jumbo loans that are way under water or loans on
investment
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/investments/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
properties.

Some states have laws that may specifically prohibit lenders from
pursuing borrowers for the balance of many mortgage loans after
foreclosure, though the particulars vary. Arizona and California are
among these states, according to Steven Bender, a professor at the
University of Oregon
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/u/university_of_oregon/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
School of Law. It?s best to talk to a lawyer to determine your state?s
rules.

In fact, if you want to be sure your lender (or a collection agency that
it may sell your loan to) won?t chase you down, it?s a good idea to have
a lawyer involved with any short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure
itself. ?You must get the bank to agree in writing that any deficiency
is waived,? said Chip Parker, a lawyer specializing in foreclosure with
Parker & DuFresne in Jacksonville, Fla.

The biggest challenge here may simply be finding someone at the bank to
help. Having a second mortgage will also complicate matters.

YOUR TAXES You also need to consider the taxman. Often, forgiven debts
are taxable as income. Recent legislative changes, however, eliminate
the federal tax burden through 2012 on most primary residence debt that
a lender has reduced through loan restructuring or forgiven during
foreclosure.

Mark Luscombe, principal analyst for CCH, a tax information service,
said that people who sell their home through a short sale or give up the
deed in lieu of foreclosure can also qualify for tax relief if they use
a special tax form, 1099-C, that reflects the amount of debt that the
lender has forgiven.

People who live in states with their own income taxes may avoid a big
bill as well. Some states, like Arizona and California, have introduced
or passed legislation that echoes the federal laws, according to the
National Conference of State Legislatures. Many others tend to mimic
most or all federal income tax laws as a general rule, according to CCH.
Check with an accountant in your state to be sure.

YOUR CREDIT A short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure itself will almost
certainly damage your credit report and score, and the black mark will
last for up to seven years. But the amount of damage it does will depend
on how much other credit trouble you?ve gotten yourself into with other
lenders.

If you?re giving up the home you own, you?ll probably need to rent soon
afterward. Will landlords turn you away once they check your credit and
discover your troubled mortgage? ?If it?s the only thing marring their
credit, it?s probably not a big issue,? said Clay Powell, the director
of the Rental Property Owners Association of Michigan, who added that
good tenants could be scarce in economic environments like this one.

In fact, Todd J. Zywicki, a law professor at George Mason University,
predicted that FICO may have to adjust its credit scores
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-scores/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
to lessen the impact of a foreclosure or similar incident. ?It just
seems obvious that a foreclosure in 2008 or 2009 doesn?t have as much
information value as a foreclosure five years ago,? he said. ?To the
extent that foreclosure doesn?t predict future behavior as much as it
did in the past, you?d expect that the FICO algorithm would change to
adjust for that.?

Craig Watts, a spokesman for FICO, said that was an interesting idea.
?We try not to get involved too much in psychobabble around what is and
isn?t predictive,? he said. ?If the numbers show that foreclosure is
less predictive, then we?ll take it into account in future
redevelopments of the formula.? That would take a minimum of two to
three years, though.

Some lenders aren?t waiting that long to initiate their own foreclosure
destigmatization programs. The Golden 1, one of the nation?s largest
credit unions, now has a mortgage repair loan for people who have lost a
home to foreclosure but want to buy a new one.

It?s hard to imagine that there won?t be a parade of insurance
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/insurance/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
companies, credit card
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-and-debit-cards/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
issuers and mortgage lenders in Golden 1?s wake, even though Fannie Mae
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/fannie_mae/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
and Freddie Mac
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/freddie_mac/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
may be unwilling to guarantee the mortgages of such borrowers for
several years. In fact, Aaron Bresko, the vice president of lending for
BECU, another large credit union based in Washington State, is putting
together a panel called ?How to Lend to the Newly Credit Impaired? for a
conference later this year.

?Good people have bad things happen to them, so how do you find those
people and reach out to them?? he said. ?As the year progresses, it?s
going to be an emerging market.?

How are you handling your mortgage problems?
Write to rlieber at nytimes.com.

_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman..howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
 
_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo..cgi/5-dayforum




-----Inline Message Follows-----


Bill 
 
I would agree if the homeowner is trying to negotiate with the banks directly.. because they do not know all the laws involved that can be used.  We nornally get the Modification for a period of 5 years .. That give the homeowner the opportunity to get out from under any financial dificulties that they may be in at this time and if we are lucky the market may ( or may not ) go up in value.... but it will give them some breathing room ..
 
If they negotiate with a bank ... the bank will normally only give them a 6 month reprive... and almost 50% will again be behind in thier payments at the end of that period because they are back to the original payment..
 
Jo Ann


On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com> wrote:

Naji
 
I work for Attorneys that have a 98% success rate in getting both reduced interest rates and reduction of the principal.. They negotiate with the banks.. If you try to do it directly with the bank you will not have the same success..   If we can not get a Modification the client recieves a 100% refund...  Our mission is to help those that want to stay in thier homes..... and we have helped hundreds of homeowners...
 
Jo Ann


2009/3/16 Naji <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com> 


Loan modifications without an actual principal reduction to current market valuation only benefits the banks, period! You?re better off walking away or doing a short sale than prolonging the inevitable.
 
BTW, Loan Modification programs are being pushed (mostly) by the same banks and mortgage brokers that were giving away billions of dollars to unqualified buyers during the peak? It?s amazing that the same crooks that were telling a person making 40K a year they can afford a 500K home with 0 down are the same ones getting into the loan modification business.
 
-Naji
 
 
---------- From my previous posting ----------
 
Anyone that purchased a home or refinanced (and tapped their equity) in the last 5 years or so in many parts of the country (if not all of the country) is upside down on their mortgage, i.e house worth less than what?s owed on it, or are falling behind on payments:
 
So what are the options if you?re in that situation:
 
	1. Reinstatement - Determine the amount owed necessary to bring loan current. 
	* This just prolongs the inevitable? If the house is worth much less, especially in hard hit areas, expect to stay put for many many years before you break even. So, you may find yourself in the same situation a few month or years from now 
	2. Forbearance - Set up a payment plan to bring the loan current. 
	* Another option that?s not really going to work? If someone cannot pay now, how will he be able to become current with more payments. 
	3. Modification - Adjust the loan terms (interest rate, payment and length).
	* Loan modification only benefits the banks at this point? They just tack it on to the back end of the mortgage. 
	* This will only work if banks actually reduce the principal to match current value. Unfortunately, less than 1% of loan modifications result in principal reductions. 
	4. Deed-in-lieu - Give the property back to the lender.. 
	* Works if the lender agrees to it and there aren?t 2nd, 3rd, etc liens
	5. Walk Away - Leave the property in the most beneficial way possible. 
	* Stay as long as you can in the home ? You can stay at least 8 months before it goes to the bank and in states like Florida, expect to stay almost 2 years. 
	* Don?t pay the mortgage, but instead save it all so you can rebuild your life 
	* When it?s judgment time, find a place to rent and plan on renting for a while 
	* You could also offload your property to someone as well 
	6. Short Sale - List the property for less than the amount owed. 
	* You can negotiate a short sale with your bank? You can do it yourself or hire someone to do it on you behalf. It?s really not that difficult, all it takes is communicating with your lender 
	* Many banks are getting easier to work with while others are still in dreamville 
	* Expect this to take months due to the bank backlogs. Also, some banks want to see the property on the market for at least 90 days before agreeing to anything. Then they do their own BPO (which is still out of whack) and wait like everyone else thinking they can get all their money back? 
	7. Refinance - Obtain a new loan to replace the current loan(s). 
	* Will not work unless you?re going to bring a big chunk of change to the table.
	8. Excess Proceeds- Collecting excess money from the auction/sale of the property. 
	* Wait until the property goes to the auction block and if there?s any money left after the 1st Lien holder is paid, you may get something back? Doubtful in many cases since all the homes going back are worth less than the mortgage 
	9. Postponements - Delay the auction/sale date of the property. 
	* Delay the public auction of the property while you try to figure something out 
	* This will only buy you time and you?ll still have to face the music later 
	10. Stay In Your Home - Continue living in your current home.
	* If you can afford the payments and are willing to stick it out for 10 years or more, then just stay put 
 
-Naji
 
 

________________________________
 
From:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Jo Ann Kelty
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 1:25 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
 
The one option that you did not mention was a Loan Modification.  This can reduce your interest rate thereby reducing your monthly payment so that you can afford to stay in your home.  In some cases but not all the principal amount can also be reducuded.. If you would like more information regarding if you can qualify please contact me.  
 
Jo Ann Kelty 
joannkelty8 at gmail.com
 
407-610-0736  
407-756-6371  cell
On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan


March 14, 2009
Your Money
By RON LIEBER
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/l/ron_lieber/index.html?inline=nyt-per)

If you?re among the millions of people who will not qualify for the
Obama administration?s program to help troubled homeowners, you?re
probably wondering what you?re supposed to do now.

Perhaps you no longer have enough income to pay your loans
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier).
Or you can afford the payments but don?t qualify for refinancing under
the new plan because the value of your home is too far below the balance
of the loan. If you?re far enough underwater, you?re probably
questioning the wisdom of writing a monthly check on a place that may
take 10 or 15 years to get back to the value it had two or three years
ago. It isn?t easy to come up with the answer, and if you have moral
misgivings about not making good on your mortgage
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/mortgages/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier),
a religious officiant may offer as much useful guidance as a financial
planner
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/planning/financial-planners/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier).

In an economic environment like this one, however, the consequences of
giving up on your mortgage may not be as painful as they were a few
years ago. Yes, it?s almost always preferable to negotiate a better deal
on your existing mortgage than to walk away. But if you can?t work
things out with your lender, you probably won?t be sued. You shouldn?t
receive a major tax bill either. And the damage to your credit will not
be permanent or insurmountable.

Let?s look at these last three in order.

YOUR LENDER First off, let?s define what we mean by ?giving up? on your
current mortgage. It may mean trying for a short sale
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/s/short_selling/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier),
where the lender allows you to sell your home for less than the mortgage
amount. You may also hand over the deed to the home in exchange for the
lender agreeing not to start foreclosure proceedings (a ?deed in lieu?
in industry terms). Then, there?s foreclosure itself, and the
possibility that bankruptcy judges may soon have the power to adjust the
terms of primary mortgages.

That said, just because you?re ineligible under the Obama plan doesn?t
mean that your lender or servicer won?t ultimately adjust your mortgage
anyhow. Collectively, there are enough people in trouble or under water
on their loans that they have plenty of leverage if they?re willing to
play chicken with their lender and threaten to stop paying.

The problem is, the lender can play chicken, too, by threatening to come
after you for the balance of any money you owe ? whether it?s the
difference between what you sell the property for yourself and the
remaining mortgage, or the loan amount left over after the lender sells
your property in foreclosure.

The lender may not follow through, though. ?What our membership is
telling us is that it can be cost-prohibitive to chase down a borrower
who is already in financial distress,? said John Mechem, a spokesman for
the Mortgage Bankers Association. ?You can?t squeeze blood from a
stone.? They may, however, still come after people with high incomes who
walk away from jumbo loans that are way under water or loans on
investment
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/investments/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
properties.

Some states have laws that may specifically prohibit lenders from
pursuing borrowers for the balance of many mortgage loans after
foreclosure, though the particulars vary. Arizona and California are
among these states, according to Steven Bender, a professor at the
University of Oregon
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/u/university_of_oregon/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
School of Law. It?s best to talk to a lawyer to determine your state?s
rules.

In fact, if you want to be sure your lender (or a collection agency that
it may sell your loan to) won?t chase you down, it?s a good idea to have
a lawyer involved with any short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure
itself. ?You must get the bank to agree in writing that any deficiency
is waived,? said Chip Parker, a lawyer specializing in foreclosure with
Parker & DuFresne in Jacksonville, Fla.

The biggest challenge here may simply be finding someone at the bank to
help. Having a second mortgage will also complicate matters.

YOUR TAXES You also need to consider the taxman. Often, forgiven debts
are taxable as income. Recent legislative changes, however, eliminate
the federal tax burden through 2012 on most primary residence debt that
a lender has reduced through loan restructuring or forgiven during
foreclosure.

Mark Luscombe, principal analyst for CCH, a tax information service,
said that people who sell their home through a short sale or give up the
deed in lieu of foreclosure can also qualify for tax relief if they use
a special tax form, 1099-C, that reflects the amount of debt that the
lender has forgiven.

People who live in states with their own income taxes may avoid a big
bill as well. Some states, like Arizona and California, have introduced
or passed legislation that echoes the federal laws, according to the
National Conference of State Legislatures. Many others tend to mimic
most or all federal income tax laws as a general rule, according to CCH.
Check with an accountant in your state to be sure.

YOUR CREDIT A short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure itself will almost
certainly damage your credit report and score, and the black mark will
last for up to seven years.. But the amount of damage it does will depend
on how much other credit trouble you?ve gotten yourself into with other
lenders.

If you?re giving up the home you own, you?ll probably need to rent soon
afterward. Will landlords turn you away once they check your credit and
discover your troubled mortgage? ?If it?s the only thing marring their
credit, it?s probably not a big issue,? said Clay Powell, the director
of the Rental Property Owners Association of Michigan, who added that
good tenants could be scarce in economic environments like this one.

In fact, Todd J. Zywicki, a law professor at George Mason University,
predicted that FICO may have to adjust its credit scores
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-scores/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
to lessen the impact of a foreclosure or similar incident. ?It just
seems obvious that a foreclosure in 2008 or 2009 doesn?t have as much
information value as a foreclosure five years ago,? he said. ?To the
extent that foreclosure doesn?t predict future behavior as much as it
did in the past, you?d expect that the FICO algorithm would change to
adjust for that.?

Craig Watts, a spokesman for FICO, said that was an interesting idea.
?We try not to get involved too much in psychobabble around what is and
isn?t predictive,? he said. ?If the numbers show that foreclosure is
less predictive, then we?ll take it into account in future
redevelopments of the formula.? That would take a minimum of two to
three years, though.

Some lenders aren?t waiting that long to initiate their own foreclosure
destigmatization programs. The Golden 1, one of the nation?s largest
credit unions, now has a mortgage repair loan for people who have lost a
home to foreclosure but want to buy a new one.

It?s hard to imagine that there won?t be a parade of insurance
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/insurance/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
companies, credit card
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-and-debit-cards/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
issuers and mortgage lenders in Golden 1?s wake, even though Fannie Mae
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/fannie_mae/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
and Freddie Mac
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/freddie_mac/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
may be unwilling to guarantee the mortgages of such borrowers for
several years. In fact, Aaron Bresko, the vice president of lending for
BECU, another large credit union based in Washington State, is putting
together a panel called ?How to Lend to the Newly Credit Impaired? for a
conference later this year.

?Good people have bad things happen to them, so how do you find those
people and reach out to them?? he said. ?As the year progresses, it?s
going to be an emerging market..?

How are you handling your mortgage problems?
Write to rlieber at nytimes.com.

_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
 
_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum





-----Inline Message Follows-----

Wade,

Thanks for the report.

I know it's hard to believe that doing the 5-Day Method properly makes
a difference, but it does.

$94,500 is not a "Magic Number".  Magic numbers pull.

At $74,500 -- which should have been your starting point -- you would
have had 25 responses by Friday night even with the newspaper screw-up,
and without moving your ad from where it should have been, to where it
shouldn't have been.

Enough people know about the 5-Day Method to be able to read into your
$94,500 starting price that you weren't going to let that property go
for much under $200,000--which is probably substantially more than it
is currently worth.

The signs are always a mistake.  They throw off your ability to judge
response totals, turn off real buyers, and attract the curious with
nothing better to do.

Rental properties are worth 10 times the rent roll.  What were you
renting that property for?

Bill Effros
Author

Wade Fenner wrote: 
Well I just held my 5 Day
Sale and here is how it went:
 
 
Location: Edmonton
AB Canada pop. incl area over 1,000,000
 
Property: 2 storey
three bedroom townhouse, one bath, developed basement, fully renovated
18 months ago with everything done & new appliances. It looks
Great....and repainted last fall when the tenant moved out.
 
Price: Listed at
$94,500 with an expected net of at lease $170-180. (My guess is the
property could sell for around 180-185 with a realtor so my expectation
was pretty low in my opinion but I was willing to accept a net after
commissions etc)
 
Advertising: 
 
	* I placed a 2 column wide by 2.25 "
high display ad in the real estate section as per the book example.. The
ad was to run wed, thur, fri, sat, sun as instructed. The newspaper co.
messed up and did not get my ad in by wed so I doubled up the ad for
thur & fri by placing the ad in the very front section of the
paper. Total cost $1,900.
	* Kijiji, Craigs list and in my
monthly re group website
 
Signs: I had 20
signs made up 24' wide by 18" high that read (House Auction, To Be Sold
Sunday Night, Higgest Bidder, Inspection: Sat & Sunday, Ph &
email address) these were made up as per exaples on the site (bright
yellow, red, etc). These were set up on street poles on Wed afternoon.
Plus 2 24 x 60 signs attached to my truck on the main road leading to
my unit. Cost about $4-500
 
Calls: By Friday
morning I had 20+ calls (remember my ad only cale out Thurs. By Sat
noon I had over 30 calls, by sat night I had 45 calls, by sun noon
around 50 calls.
 
Open House: Sat 7-8
different parties showed up with 2 bids on the bid sheet. Sun about 20
parties & a total of 12 bids.
 
 
Bidding: 4 peopled
bailed immediately. 3-4 bailed in the first 3-4 rounds, finally few
bailed in the next few rounds with the last person sitting at $163k.
There was only one serious bidder.
 
Conclusion: I need
more than one serious bidder to get the price up. Was I impressed? No,
not by the results but the process has got my attention and I will do
it again but probably with a modification or two I'm just not sure what
yet. I spent good money on ads & signs $2,500. and had a very low
expectation of price......
 
Cheers,
 
Wade Fenner
 
 

________________________________

_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum 

-----Inline Message Follows-----

Jo Ann,

Naji's point, and my point is that many homes in many places are not
worth the current value of the principal and probably will never ever
be worth the value of the principal.

A case in point would be a retirement community in Fort Meyers, Fla.
where 64 of the 65 homes have been foreclosed.  That 65th home owner
should get out of there as quickly as possible, and before paying any
more money on the mortgage.  None of those homes will ever be lived in
again.

While this may seem like an extreme example, there are, at the least,
100,000s of thousands of homes that fall into this category at this
time.  100% of their current value will be lost -- the only question is
who will take the hit.  Let the banks and the taxpayers take the rest
of the hit.  The home buyer has been hurt enough already, don't make it
worse.

This is not to say payment reduction may not be good for some people.

But many on this list would be much better off immediately selling
their homes either to the high bidder in a 5-Day Sale, or to their
banks if the bank will not accept the current value of the home.

Bill Effros
Author

PS -- Is it principal or principle...the principal is your pal...??



Jo Ann Kelty wrote: 
Bill 
 
I would agree if the homeowner is trying to negotiate with the
banks directly.. because they do not know all the laws involved that
can be used.  We nornally get the Modification for a period of 5 years
.. That give the homeowner the opportunity to get out from under any
financial dificulties that they may be in at this time and if we are
lucky the market may ( or may not ) go up in value..... but it will give
them some breathing room ..
 
If they negotiate with a bank ... the bank will normally only
give them a 6 month reprive... and almost 50% will again be behind in
thier payments at the end of that period because they are back to the
original payment.
 
Jo Ann


On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Jo Ann
Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com> wrote:

Naji
 
I work for Attorneys that have a 98% success rate in getting
both reduced interest rates and reduction of the principal.. They
negotiate with the banks.. If you try to do it directly with the bank
you will not have the same success..   If we can not get a Modification
the client recieves a 100% refund...  Our mission is to help those that
want to stay in thier homes..... and we have helped hundreds of
homeowners...
 
Jo Ann


2009/3/16 Naji <nkhouri at cfl.rr.com> 


Loan
modifications without an actual
principal reduction to current market valuation only
benefits the banks, period! You?re better off walking away or doing a
short sale than prolonging the inevitable.
 
BTW, Loan
Modification programs are being pushed (mostly) by the same banks and
mortgage brokers that were giving away billions of dollars to
unqualified buyers during the peak? It?s amazing that the same crooks
that were telling a person making 40K a year they can afford a 500K
home with 0 down are the same ones getting into the loan modification
business.
 
-Naji
 
 
----------
>From my previous posting ----------
 
Anyone that
purchased a home or refinanced (and tapped their equity) in the last 5
years or so in many parts of the country (if not all of the country) is
upside down on their mortgage, i.e house worth less than what?s owed on
it, or are falling behind on payments:
 
So what are
the options if you?re in that situation:
 
	1. Reinstatement
- Determine the amount owed necessary to bring loan current. 
	* This just
prolongs the inevitable? If the house is worth much less, especially in
hard hit areas, expect to stay put for many many years before you break
even. So, you may find yourself in the same situation a few month or
years from now 
	2. Forbearance
- Set up a payment plan to bring the loan current. 
	* Another
option that?s not really going to work? If someone cannot pay now, how
will he be able to become current with more payments. 
	3. Modification
- Adjust the loan terms (interest rate, payment and length).
	* Loan
modification only benefits the banks at this point? They just tack it
on to the back end of the mortgage. 
	* This will
only work if banks actually reduce the principal to match current
value. Unfortunately, less than 1% of loan modifications result in
principal reductions. 
	4. Deed-in-lieu
- Give the property back to the lender. 
	* Works if
the lender agrees to it and there aren?t 2nd, 3rd,
etc liens
	5. Walk Away
- Leave the property in the most beneficial way possible. 
	* Stay as
long as you can in the home ? You can stay at least 8 months before it
goes to the bank and in states like Florida, expect to stay almost 2
years. 
	* Don?t pay
the mortgage, but instead save it all so you can rebuild your life 
	* When it?s
judgment time, find a place to rent and plan on renting for a while 
	* You could
also offload your property to someone as well 
	6. Short Sale
- List the property for less than the amount owed. 
	* You can
negotiate a short sale with your bank? You can do it yourself or hire
someone to do it on you behalf. It?s really not that difficult, all it
takes is communicating with your lender 
	* Many banks
are getting easier to work with while others are still in dreamville 
	* Expect
this to take months due to the bank backlogs. Also, some banks want to
see the property on the market for at least 90 days before agreeing to
anything. Then they do their own BPO (which is still out of whack) and
wait like everyone else thinking they can get all their money back? 
	7. Refinance
- Obtain a new loan to replace the current loan(s). 
	* Will not
work unless you?re going to bring a big chunk of change to the table.
	8. Excess
Proceeds- Collecting excess money from the auction/sale of the property. 
	* Wait until
the property goes to the auction block and if there?s any money left
after the 1st Lien holder is paid, you may get something
back? Doubtful in many cases since all the homes going back are worth
less than the mortgage 
	9. Postponements
- Delay the auction/sale date of the property. 
	* Delay the
public auction of the property while you try to figure something out 
	* This will
only buy you time and you?ll still have to face the music later 
	10. Stay In
Your Home - Continue living in your current home.
	* If you can
afford the payments and are willing to stick it out for 10 years or
more, then just stay put 
 
-Naji
 
 

________________________________

From:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Jo
Ann Kelty
Sent: Monday,
March 16, 2009 1:25 PM
To: How To Sell
Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re:
[5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
 
The one option that you did not mention was a
Loan Modification.  This can reduce your interest rate thereby reducing
your monthly payment so that you can afford to stay in your home.  In
some cases but not all the principal amount can also be reducuded.. If
you would like more information regarding if you can qualify please
contact me.  
 
Jo Ann Kelty 
joannkelty8 at gmail.com
 
407-610-0736  
407-756-6371  cell
On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Bill Effros
<bill at effros.com> wrote:
Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan


March 14, 2009
Your Money
By RON LIEBER
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/l/ron_lieber/index.html?inline=nyt-per)

If you?re among the millions of people who will not qualify for the
Obama administration?s program to help troubled homeowners, you?re
probably wondering what you?re supposed to do now.

Perhaps you no longer have enough income to pay your loans
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier).
Or you can afford the payments but don?t qualify for refinancing under
the new plan because the value of your home is too far below the balance
of the loan. If you?re far enough underwater, you?re probably
questioning the wisdom of writing a monthly check on a place that may
take 10 or 15 years to get back to the value it had two or three years
ago. It isn?t easy to come up with the answer, and if you have moral
misgivings about not making good on your mortgage
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/loans/mortgages/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier),
a religious officiant may offer as much useful guidance as a financial
planner
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/planning/financial-planners/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier).

In an economic environment like this one, however, the consequences of
giving up on your mortgage may not be as painful as they were a few
years ago. Yes, it?s almost always preferable to negotiate a better deal
on your existing mortgage than to walk away. But if you can?t work
things out with your lender, you probably won?t be sued. You shouldn?t
receive a major tax bill either. And the damage to your credit will not
be permanent or insurmountable.

Let?s look at these last three in order.

YOUR LENDER First off, let?s define what we mean by ?giving up? on your
current mortgage. It may mean trying for a short sale
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/s/short_selling/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier),
where the lender allows you to sell your home for less than the mortgage
amount. You may also hand over the deed to the home in exchange for the
lender agreeing not to start foreclosure proceedings (a ?deed in lieu?
in industry terms). Then, there?s foreclosure itself, and the
possibility that bankruptcy judges may soon have the power to adjust the
terms of primary mortgages.

That said, just because you?re ineligible under the Obama plan doesn?t
mean that your lender or servicer won?t ultimately adjust your mortgage
anyhow. Collectively, there are enough people in trouble or under water
on their loans that they have plenty of leverage if they?re willing to
play chicken with their lender and threaten to stop paying.

The problem is, the lender can play chicken, too, by threatening to come
after you for the balance of any money you owe ? whether it?s the
difference between what you sell the property for yourself and the
remaining mortgage, or the loan amount left over after the lender sells
your property in foreclosure.

The lender may not follow through, though. ?What our membership is
telling us is that it can be cost-prohibitive to chase down a borrower
who is already in financial distress,? said John Mechem, a spokesman for
the Mortgage Bankers Association. ?You can?t squeeze blood from a
stone.? They may, however, still come after people with high incomes who
walk away from jumbo loans that are way under water or loans on
investment
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/investments/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
properties.

Some states have laws that may specifically prohibit lenders from
pursuing borrowers for the balance of many mortgage loans after
foreclosure, though the particulars vary. Arizona and California are
among these states, according to Steven Bender, a professor at the
University of Oregon
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/u/university_of_oregon/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
School of Law. It?s best to talk to a lawyer to determine your state?s
rules.

In fact, if you want to be sure your lender (or a collection agency that
it may sell your loan to) won?t chase you down, it?s a good idea to have
a lawyer involved with any short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure
itself. ?You must get the bank to agree in writing that any deficiency
is waived,? said Chip Parker, a lawyer specializing in foreclosure with
Parker & DuFresne in Jacksonville, Fla.

The biggest challenge here may simply be finding someone at the bank to
help. Having a second mortgage will also complicate matters.

YOUR TAXES You also need to consider the taxman. Often, forgiven debts
are taxable as income. Recent legislative changes, however, eliminate
the federal tax burden through 2012 on most primary residence debt that
a lender has reduced through loan restructuring or forgiven during
foreclosure.

Mark Luscombe, principal analyst for CCH, a tax information service,
said that people who sell their home through a short sale or give up the
deed in lieu of foreclosure can also qualify for tax relief if they use
a special tax form, 1099-C, that reflects the amount of debt that the
lender has forgiven.

People who live in states with their own income taxes may avoid a big
bill as well. Some states, like Arizona and California, have introduced
or passed legislation that echoes the federal laws, according to the
National Conference of State Legislatures. Many others tend to mimic
most or all federal income tax laws as a general rule, according to CCH.
Check with an accountant in your state to be sure.

YOUR CREDIT A short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure itself will almost
certainly damage your credit report and score, and the black mark will
last for up to seven years. But the amount of damage it does will depend
on how much other credit trouble you?ve gotten yourself into with other
lenders.

If you?re giving up the home you own, you?ll probably need to rent soon
afterward. Will landlords turn you away once they check your credit and
discover your troubled mortgage? ?If it?s the only thing marring their
credit, it?s probably not a big issue,? said Clay Powell, the director
of the Rental Property Owners Association of Michigan, who added that
good tenants could be scarce in economic environments like this one.

In fact, Todd J. Zywicki, a law professor at George Mason University,
predicted that FICO may have to adjust its credit scores
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-scores/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
to lessen the impact of a foreclosure or similar incident. ?It just
seems obvious that a foreclosure in 2008 or 2009 doesn?t have as much
information value as a foreclosure five years ago,? he said. ?To the
extent that foreclosure doesn?t predict future behavior as much as it
did in the past, you?d expect that the FICO algorithm would change to
adjust for that.?

Craig Watts, a spokesman for FICO, said that was an interesting idea.
?We try not to get involved too much in psychobabble around what is and
isn?t predictive,? he said. ?If the numbers show that foreclosure is
less predictive, then we?ll take it into account in future
redevelopments of the formula.? That would take a minimum of two to
three years, though.

Some lenders aren?t waiting that long to initiate their own foreclosure
destigmatization programs. The Golden 1, one of the nation?s largest
credit unions, now has a mortgage repair loan for people who have lost a
home to foreclosure but want to buy a new one.

It?s hard to imagine that there won?t be a parade of insurance
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/insurance/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
companies, credit card
(http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/credit/credit-and-debit-cards/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier)
issuers and mortgage lenders in Golden 1?s wake, even though Fannie Mae
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/fannie_mae/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
and Freddie Mac
(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/freddie_mac/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
may be unwilling to guarantee the mortgages of such borrowers for
several years. In fact, Aaron Bresko, the vice president of lending for
BECU, another large credit union based in Washington State, is putting
together a panel called ?How to Lend to the Newly Credit Impaired? for a
conference later this year.

?Good people have bad things happen to them, so how do you find those
people and reach out to them?? he said. ?As the year progresses, it?s
going to be an emerging market.?

How are you handling your mortgage problems?
Write to rlieber at nytimes.com.

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From bill at effros.com  Thu Mar 19 13:03:21 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 10:03:21 -0700
Subject: [5-DayForum] Denver 5 Day Multi-Unit Loft Sale
In-Reply-To: <BLU122-W40F70D1F23BAB0988640F4B4980@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU122-W40F70D1F23BAB0988640F4B4980@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <49C27AD9.7030302@effros.com>

Thanks, Kyle,

I'm working off-site from a computer that can't approve messages to the 
Forum from members whose "moderator flag" has not yet been unset.  There 
are several of them waiting, but I won't be able to approve them until I 
get back to my office.

As you know, in my experience offering multiple units at one time never 
works as well as selling them one at a time.  Instead of competing with 
each other, the buyers understand they are competing with the 
builder--which, I believe, is what happened in this case.

Notwithstanding the pressure from the builder, I would have offered to 
sell the least expensive unit first "as a demonstration".

That unit should be released at whatever price it brings, and the loss, 
if there is one, should be written off to "R&D" or "Marketing" or whatever.

The builder can then decide what to do next.

As you know, the builder shot himself in the foot by turning down high 
bids.  His credibility with this method is shot, and he will never get 
the high bid in the current market if potential buyers know he won't 
"REALLY" sell to the high bidder.

Most of these people come back to the 5-Day Method after weeks or months 
of never being offered as high a bid again.  But now you are dealing 
with a damaged seller, and people won't soon forget.  The market is so 
slow right now, there will be many people who see the second attempt who 
also saw the first attempt.

I believe if you had run a single straight 5-Day Sale you would have 
done better for your builder than you did with the complicated web site, 
complex bidding procedure, and multiple unit sale.  I understand it is 
harder to get a fee for the value you add if you don't create a lot of 
smoke and mirrors, but your knowledge of the system, and your ability to 
convince skeptics is, in itself, extremely valuable--and I believe you 
will get higher prices for your clients if you don't permit them to 
reinvent this wheel.

Bill Effros
Author





Kyle Cascioli wrote:
> Hi Everyone:
>  
> My students are on Spring Break, so the formal case study may not be 
> ready for a couple week or so.
>  
> In the meantime, I can report the following.
>  
> The builder built the property for over $250/SF and delivered it to 
> market in August of 2008.  Like many buyer's, flippers, investors, and 
> other builders, this fellow did all the right things at the wrong time 
> in developing this eclectic urban infill 16 unit project.
>  
> We marketed the units for nearly 3 weeks and had over 20 
> pre-registrations, 4 pre-auction sealed bid entries, and had over 70 
> groups come through the project during the two week inspection 
> period.  By Sunday night we had 15 bidders on four units.


>  
> The round robin bidding session lasted 4.5 hours utilizing both phone 
> and our online virtual auction room.
>  
> We had final and best bids for all units.  We had great interest and 
> success bidding up the 1 bedroom units, but the market didn't react 
> favorably to the two bedroom unit given the properties limitation of 1 
> underground parking space per unit.  It's obvious that in a good 
> market property defects or project design flaws do not appear to have 
> as detrimental an impact on pricing.  In a down-market such defects or 
> flaws are glaringly obvious, come under great scrutiny, and have a 
> significant detrimental impact on pricing.
>  
> On two of the one bedroom units we achieved roughly 83% and 85% of the 
> builders target price and he is holding firm (a mistake for market 
> reasons too numerous to address in this email, but that will be 
> addressed in the case study) and while everyone is still talking, I do 
> not believe those two potential transactions will occur.  However, it 
> appears that we are going to contract on the the fourth unit, 3D.
>  
> The builder was extremely happy with the 5 Day Sale undertaking, as it 
> generated great market interest and exposure for the project, created 
> buyer activity where none existed before, produced excellent direct 
> market feedback on the project's attributes and limitations, resulted 
> in 15 offers for the 4 units, and may still conclude with the sale of 
> a unit in an extremely dysfunctional marketplace.
>  
> We'll continue to keep you posted as events unfold and will post a new 
> case study on the site soon.
>  
> It really works ...
>  
> Kyle Cascioli
> www.AuctionByBuilder.com <http://www.auctionbybuilder.com/>
>  
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Windows Live? Contacts: Organize your contact list. Check it out. 
> <http://windowslive.com/connect/post/marcusatmicrosoft.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns%21503D1D86EBB2B53C%212285.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_UGC_Contacts_032009> 
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   

From sean at folkson.com  Wed Mar 18 12:15:02 2009
From: sean at folkson.com (Sean Folkson)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:15:02 +0100
Subject: [5-DayForum]  What happened???
Message-ID: <200903181615.n2IGFJhs005582@intel1.peregrinehw.com>

Bill,

I don't quite understand....Holly got a high offer of $93K with her 
$74K advertised price.  With a realtor, she had a buyer pay $125-$130K.

I'm pretty sure you're stating in your reply that if her ad was for 
$49,500 rather than $74,500 she would have received MORE than the 
$93K she was offered in her 5-Day sale?   And, furthermore, she would 
have gotten a buyer to pay the same range of $125K-$130K just by 
dropping the advertised price down $25K?  that is from 60% of the 
ultimate "market value" (as determined by the final sale transaction) 
down to 40%?

Is that what you're saying?

sean


From sean at folkson.com  Thu Mar 19 06:02:24 2009
From: sean at folkson.com (Sean Folkson)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 11:02:24 +0100
Subject: [5-DayForum]  Pricing
Message-ID: <200903191002.n2JA2nT0010571@intel1.peregrinehw.com>

Hi Glenda,

I hadn't asked on the phone what people could afford...only 
discovered after the showing that perhaps we hadn't found the right crowd.

I empathize with you.  Well, you can always call it off.  Or, go 
ahead with the showing and try to network into a deal?

I live in Manhattan as well...62nd & 1st.  Where is your place?


From bill at effros.com  Thu Mar 19 17:53:32 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 17:53:32 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] What happened???
In-Reply-To: <200903181615.n2IGFJhs005582@intel1.peregrinehw.com>
References: <200903181615.n2IGFJhs005582@intel1.peregrinehw.com>
Message-ID: <49C2BEDC.5030503@effros.com>

Yes, Sean,

That's EXACTLY what I'm saying.

I know it's counter-intuitive, but I've been watching this for 20 years, 
and I originally advocated a starting price closer to the perceived 
market price, while using much deeper discounts to the starting price 
whenever I was personally involved in a sale.  My deep discounted 
starting prices always did better.

The deeper the initial discount, the better you will do -- however the 
amount of work goes up exponentially as well, and there is a point of 
diminishing returns.

50% dropped down to the next lowest magic number really works. 

Yes, yes, yes -- of course you attract a lot of people who cannot afford 
the real price.  But you will also get 3 real ones, and they really will 
bid the property up to current fair market value -- and it really does 
work every single time ... provided that you follow through on your 
offer, and make clear throughout the inspection and round robin that the 
high bidder will be offered the house.

Start weaseling, and all bets are off.

Holly made some comment about "knowing they wanted the house for less 
than 100K" and "ending the agony...".  At what point do you suppose she 
told the bidders that they weren't going to get the house unless she got 
a price she was happy with...which, at that time, was around $150,000 
because someone down the street had recently received $145?

If you increase the starting price on your next home you will hurt the 
final selling price -- especially given that you already did not follow 
through on what turned out to be a fair price, and people will remember.

Bill Effros
Author




 

Sean Folkson wrote:
> Bill,
>
> I don't quite understand....Holly got a high offer of $93K with her 
> $74K advertised price.  With a realtor, she had a buyer pay $125-$130K.
>
> I'm pretty sure you're stating in your reply that if her ad was for 
> $49,500 rather than $74,500 she would have received MORE than the 
> $93K she was offered in her 5-Day sale?   And, furthermore, she would 
> have gotten a buyer to pay the same range of $125K-$130K just by 
> dropping the advertised price down $25K?  that is from 60% of the 
> ultimate "market value" (as determined by the final sale transaction) 
> down to 40%?
>
> Is that what you're saying?
>
> sean
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>   

From wayne at capecoralinvestmentproperties.com  Fri Mar 20 21:44:56 2009
From: wayne at capecoralinvestmentproperties.com (Wayne Giese)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 21:44:56 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] What happened???
In-Reply-To: <49C2BEDC.5030503@effros.com>
References: <200903181615.n2IGFJhs005582@intel1.peregrinehw.com>
	<49C2BEDC.5030503@effros.com>
Message-ID: <79f0ce3d0903201844l2624580byb494423c2130b108@mail.gmail.com>

Round Two of five day sale next weekend.

I am an investor in the Cape Coral Florida
market. Houses here are selling for 50% of
building cost.

I am part of a large group that buy and hold long
 term. We just started testing the bottom of the market
for the first time in two years.

After acquiring a hand few and we wonder where the
market top.

Remembering the book I ready some years
back we tried a 5 day sale. The response was great
we just had the wrong house for 90% of the buyers.
We are trying the sale again with the right house.

I read about another investor in the forum that does
something similar. And was wondering their methods.

I think the sale will be great due to the fact that we
are providing the right house.


On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 5:53 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:

> Yes, Sean,
>
> That's EXACTLY what I'm saying.
>
> I know it's counter-intuitive, but I've been watching this for 20 years,
> and I originally advocated a starting price closer to the perceived
> market price, while using much deeper discounts to the starting price
> whenever I was personally involved in a sale.  My deep discounted
> starting prices always did better.
>
> The deeper the initial discount, the better you will do -- however the
> amount of work goes up exponentially as well, and there is a point of
> diminishing returns.
>
> 50% dropped down to the next lowest magic number really works.
>
> Yes, yes, yes -- of course you attract a lot of people who cannot afford
> the real price.  But you will also get 3 real ones, and they really will
> bid the property up to current fair market value -- and it really does
> work every single time ... provided that you follow through on your
> offer, and make clear throughout the inspection and round robin that the
> high bidder will be offered the house.
>
> Start weaseling, and all bets are off.
>
> Holly made some comment about "knowing they wanted the house for less
> than 100K" and "ending the agony...".  At what point do you suppose she
> told the bidders that they weren't going to get the house unless she got
> a price she was happy with...which, at that time, was around $150,000
> because someone down the street had recently received $145?
>
> If you increase the starting price on your next home you will hurt the
> final selling price -- especially given that you already did not follow
> through on what turned out to be a fair price, and people will remember.
>
> Bill Effros
> Author
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sean Folkson wrote:
> > Bill,
> >
> > I don't quite understand....Holly got a high offer of $93K with her
> > $74K advertised price.  With a realtor, she had a buyer pay $125-$130K.
> >
> > I'm pretty sure you're stating in your reply that if her ad was for
> > $49,500 rather than $74,500 she would have received MORE than the
> > $93K she was offered in her 5-Day sale?   And, furthermore, she would
> > have gotten a buyer to pay the same range of $125K-$130K just by
> > dropping the advertised price down $25K?  that is from 60% of the
> > ultimate "market value" (as determined by the final sale transaction)
> > down to 40%?
> >
> > Is that what you're saying?
> >
> > sean
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > 5-DayForum mailing list
> > 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> >
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>



-- 
Wayne Giese
(813) 482-5688
wayne at capecoralinvestmentproperties.com
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From glendav24 at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 21 02:29:23 2009
From: glendav24 at yahoo.com (V Glenda)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 23:29:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [5-DayForum] Pricing
In-Reply-To: <mailman.12.1237564812.30807.5-dayforum@mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
References: <mailman.12.1237564812.30807.5-dayforum@mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Message-ID: <741760.88985.qm@web111301.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hi!  Manhattan neighbor (61st and 2nd)....you did not leave your name.  

Anyway, I'm on 49th and 2nd...how long ago did you run your 5 day sale?  Tomorrow is our open house and I did get more than 25 inquiries starting from Wednesday to Friday, not counting the 100+ inquries we had gotten since advertising 3 weeks earlier.   We also managed to get publicity in a couple of local papers (with the wrong information on it...thanks to a Bellmarc broker, Merrill Flaum, who listed our apartment (full information and all) on their website, Easy Street, without our consent, after just a conversation with me over the phone where he was inquiring if he could bring in "two very interested and qualified clients."  Thus far I have two people show up at my door and a coop Board member wanted to make sure I have not lost my mind trying to sell it for that amount after they saw it on Metro.  The Real Deal wrote an article naming our place as the "cheapest that  came in the market this week and Bellmarc as the listing agent.  I have them
 correct it since then but I gave up running after the media for correction after I found out it was on the Metro and I continued to get calls from Bellmarc agents...it has been a stressful week, but I am glad to get it finally done this weekend. The apartment looks great, my husband and I are joking about walling off the living room to make extra room for the kids and scrapping this whole 5 day sale idea.  
 I do have a couple of seemingly very interested buyers, though I don't know if we can get them up to a price level we can live with..., but we are keeping an open mind about the pricing.... I will have to see how all the unsolicited publicity will impact this sale.  I am very curious to know what your experience had been like...?  How big is your apartment?  Why are you selling?

Best,
Glenda



________________________________
From: "5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com" <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 12:00:12 PM
Subject: 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 32

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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:

   1.  What happened??? (Sean Folkson)
   2.  Pricing (Sean Folkson)
   3. Re: What happened??? (Bill Effros)


-----Inline Message Follows-----

Bill,

I don't quite understand....Holly got a high offer of $93K with her $74K advertised price.  With a realtor, she had a buyer pay $125-$130K.

I'm pretty sure you're stating in your reply that if her ad was for $49,500 rather than $74,500 she would have received MORE than the $93K she was offered in her 5-Day sale?   And, furthermore, she would have gotten a buyer to pay the same range of $125K-$130K just by dropping the advertised price down $25K?  that is from 60% of the ultimate "market value" (as determined by the final sale transaction) down to 40%?

Is that what you're saying?

sean




-----Inline Message Follows-----

Hi Glenda,

I hadn't asked on the phone what people could afford...only discovered after the showing that perhaps we hadn't found the right crowd.

I empathize with you.  Well, you can always call it off.  Or, go ahead with the showing and try to network into a deal?

I live in Manhattan as well...62nd & 1st.  Where is your place?




-----Inline Message Follows-----

Yes, Sean,

That's EXACTLY what I'm saying.

I know it's counter-intuitive, but I've been watching this for 20 years, and I originally advocated a starting price closer to the perceived market price, while using much deeper discounts to the starting price whenever I was personally involved in a sale.  My deep discounted starting prices always did better.

The deeper the initial discount, the better you will do -- however the amount of work goes up exponentially as well, and there is a point of diminishing returns.

50% dropped down to the next lowest magic number really works. 
Yes, yes, yes -- of course you attract a lot of people who cannot afford the real price.  But you will also get 3 real ones, and they really will bid the property up to current fair market value -- and it really does work every single time ... provided that you follow through on your offer, and make clear throughout the inspection and round robin that the high bidder will be offered the house.

Start weaseling, and all bets are off.

Holly made some comment about "knowing they wanted the house for less than 100K" and "ending the agony...".  At what point do you suppose she told the bidders that they weren't going to get the house unless she got a price she was happy with...which, at that time, was around $150,000 because someone down the street had recently received $145?

If you increase the starting price on your next home you will hurt the final selling price -- especially given that you already did not follow through on what turned out to be a fair price, and people will remember.

Bill Effros
Author






Sean Folkson wrote:
> Bill,
> 
> I don't quite understand....Holly got a high offer of $93K with her $74K advertised price.  With a realtor, she had a buyer pay $125-$130K.
> 
> I'm pretty sure you're stating in your reply that if her ad was for $49,500 rather than $74,500 she would have received MORE than the $93K she was offered in her 5-Day sale?   And, furthermore, she would have gotten a buyer to pay the same range of $125K-$130K just by dropping the advertised price down $25K?  that is from 60% of the ultimate "market value" (as determined by the final sale transaction) down to 40%?
> 
> Is that what you're saying?
> 
> sean
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> 
>  

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From aamirsy at gmail.com  Thu Mar 19 14:39:09 2009
From: aamirsy at gmail.com (Aamir Syed)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 14:39:09 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum]  Ads in Multiple news papers
Message-ID: <b37b7a0d0903191139g40f8fc2r7ae39215f3fd9747@mail.gmail.com>

I opted to go with just the Rockland Journal news (print and online), I'm at
Day 2 of the sale, and I'm regretting not going with the NYtimes. So far
I've only received 2 calls from Real Estate agents, and 5 from "potential"
buyers. If we try this method again (and I hope we do), I will definitely
post in both the journal news, and NYtimes.

Despite the low response rate, my mother (the actual owner of the house)
still wants to run the open house. I've explained to her the rule of 25.

Apart from the news papers, I also placed flyers in high traffic areas,and
posted online on Craigslist, but that has not generated any response.

Thank you all for your input.

-- 
-Aamir
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From HFraleyjr at aol.com  Fri Mar 20 12:59:25 2009
From: HFraleyjr at aol.com (HFraleyjr at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 12:59:25 EDT
Subject: [5-DayForum] Posting
Message-ID: <d22.3b165ca3.36f5256d@aol.com>

Friends - Has anyone experienced conducting a 5-day sale and did not  receive 
a fair bid for your home? Especially after advertising that it would be  sold 
to the highest bidder on Sunday Night?
 
How did you explain your decision to decline the highest bid after you had  
advertised that you would sell your home to the highest bidder?
 
Henry Fraley
**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store?  Make dinner for $10 or 
less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)
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From sean at folkson.com  Fri Mar 20 05:01:15 2009
From: sean at folkson.com (Sean Folkson)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 10:01:15 +0100
Subject: [5-DayForum]  What happened???
Message-ID: <200903200917.n2K9HPA1003613@intel1.peregrinehw.com>

Bill,

just to clarify, we were truly and honestly planning on offering the 
house to the high bidder, and we did.  We told her we'd need $345K 
and we'd do it in a heartbeat.  She simply couldn't afford it.  we 
went down to the next 2 highest and they also told us they couldn't afford it.

Again, we did EVERYTHING as described in the book.  I didn't want 
anything to look back on in doubt.

We had 3 real buyers none of whom could afford to pay "Market Value" 
which is determined by what our buyer ultimately paid 10 weeks later.

Maybe the problem is that we had a conservative view of what that 
unit would sell for.  If we had a "pie in the sky" idea of market 
value, like if we were hoping for $500K, and we listed at $249,500, 
we'd have had more luck?  But with our conservative expectation for 
the sale price, when we did the 50% and rounded down, we got too low.

I understand your logic, but seems to me that you can advertise too 
low, and maybe you don't think you can, and maybe that's all we 
really disagree on.....Let's use the example where you're saying that 
$49,500 would have been better than $74,500.  Would you extend that 
to say that $24,500 would have been EVEN better, albeit maybe 10 
times more work?


From bill at effros.com  Sat Mar 21 10:35:59 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 10:35:59 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] What happened???
In-Reply-To: <200903200917.n2K9HPA1003613@intel1.peregrinehw.com>
References: <200903200917.n2K9HPA1003613@intel1.peregrinehw.com>
Message-ID: <49C4FB4F.8050101@effros.com>

Sean,

"Market Value" is what you got, not what someone else paid.

You told your buyer you "need $345K" -- But that was not true.  You took 
very close to what that buyer bid.

You started at $174,500, which is not the magic number for a $345,000 
home -- Your magic number should have been $149,500, which undoubtedly 
would have attracted more people who could not afford your home, but 
also would have attracted more of the real buyers as well -- driving 
your home above the market value you ultimately received 10 weeks later.

No matter how low you go, you will never get substantially more than the 
current market price.  I have made mistakes of starting too low from 
time to time, and gotten more than 500 responses to a single 8 line 
classified ad.  To say it was a lot of work to sort them all out would 
be an understatement, and I had to hire people to control the crowd.

So the too low starting price was counterproductive in terms of the cost 
of running the 5-Day Sale, but got exactly the same selling price as 
sales that drew 50-100 responses.

Some day when you have the time, stroll over to a Christie's or 
Sotheby's auction when they are auctioning off a multi-million dollar 
painting.  Do you really think all the people in the audience can afford 
the painting?  Is the starting bid greater or less than 50% of the 
selling price?  Read their rules -- does the seller pay a commission 
even if the finally bid price does not meet the "Reserve" price?  Do you 
think the seller gets 100% of the bid price?  Does the auctioneer, 
during the auction, question the ability of any bidder to pay the bid 
price?  Is the estimated price in their catalog often wildly off the 
high bid price?

Why do you think they run their auctions that way? 

Glenda is in the middle of her 5-Day Sale right now.  She started low 
enough to make quite a kerfluffle -- and that's the whole point!  Why 
don't you go down to see how she's doing.  Everyone in her building is 
down there, they've told their friends some idiot is selling her 
apartment too cheap, and they should buy it, the neighborhood is abuzz, 
and, if she doesn't blow it by weaseling, she will sell that apartment 
for the most anyone could possibly get on this weekend.

I'm sure she could use your help explaining the system.

Bill Effros
Author

Sean Folkson wrote:
> Bill,
>
> just to clarify, we were truly and honestly planning on offering the 
> house to the high bidder, and we did.  We told her we'd need $345K 
> and we'd do it in a heartbeat.  She simply couldn't afford it.  we 
> went down to the next 2 highest and they also told us they couldn't afford it.
>
> Again, we did EVERYTHING as described in the book.  I didn't want 
> anything to look back on in doubt.
>
> We had 3 real buyers none of whom could afford to pay "Market Value" 
> which is determined by what our buyer ultimately paid 10 weeks later.
>
> Maybe the problem is that we had a conservative view of what that 
> unit would sell for.  If we had a "pie in the sky" idea of market 
> value, like if we were hoping for $500K, and we listed at $249,500, 
> we'd have had more luck?  But with our conservative expectation for 
> the sale price, when we did the 50% and rounded down, we got too low.
>
> I understand your logic, but seems to me that you can advertise too 
> low, and maybe you don't think you can, and maybe that's all we 
> really disagree on.....Let's use the example where you're saying that 
> $49,500 would have been better than $74,500.  Would you extend that 
> to say that $24,500 would have been EVEN better, albeit maybe 10 
> times more work?
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>   

From bill at effros.com  Sat Mar 21 10:46:43 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 10:46:43 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Pricing
In-Reply-To: <741760.88985.qm@web111301.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.12.1237564812.30807.5-dayforum@mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
	<741760.88985.qm@web111301.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49C4FDD3.7040101@effros.com>

Glenda,

If you play it straight, you will sell for the most anyone can get for 
your coop this weekend.

DON'T WEASEL!!!!

Tell them all you're going to sell the co-op to the high bidder tomorrow 
night.  Period.

If they say "What if...?  What if...?"  You just say, over and over, 
that you're going to sell the co-op to the high bidder tomorrow night, 
and if they want it, they've got to get their name on the bidding sheet, 
and the high bidder on the bidding sheet gets the first call.  You don't 
know if anybody has the money when push comes to shove, but you will 
learn that first thing Monday morning--for right now, if they want your 
Co-op, they've got to get their name, and any price, even a penny, on 
your bidding sheet.

If they don't trust you, they shouldn't bid.

Even with all these people, you're not going to get MORE than your co-op 
is currently worth, but you will wind up at the high end of the current 
market value.

Bill Effros
Author

V Glenda wrote:
> Hi!  Manhattan neighbor (61st and 2nd)....you did not leave your name.  
>
> Anyway, I'm on 49th and 2nd...how long ago did you run your 5 day 
> sale?  Tomorrow is our open house and I did get more than 25 inquiries 
> starting from Wednesday to Friday, not counting the 100+ inquries we 
> had gotten since advertising 3 weeks earlier.   We also managed to get 
> publicity in a couple of local papers (with the wrong information on 
> it...thanks to a Bellmarc broker, Merrill Flaum, who listed our 
> apartment (full information and all) on their website, Easy Street, 
> without our consent, after just a conversation with me over the phone 
> where he was inquiring if he could bring in "two very interested and 
> qualified clients."  Thus far I have two people show up at my door and 
> a coop Board member wanted to make sure I have not lost my mind trying 
> to sell it for that amount after they saw it on Metro.  The Real Deal 
> wrote an article naming our place as the "cheapest that  came in the 
> market this week and Bellmarc as the listing agent.  I have them 
> correct it since then but I gave up running after the media for 
> correction after I found out it was on the Metro and I continued to 
> get calls from Bellmarc agents...it has been a stressful week, but I 
> am glad to get it finally done this weekend. The apartment looks 
> great, my husband and I are joking about walling off the living room 
> to make extra room for the kids and scrapping this whole 5 day sale 
> idea.  
>  I do have a couple of seemingly very interested buyers, though I 
> don't know if we can get them up to a price level we can live with..., 
> but we are keeping an open mind about the pricing... I will have to 
> see how all the unsolicited publicity will impact this sale.  I am 
> very curious to know what your experience had been like...?  How big 
> is your apartment?  Why are you selling?
>
> Best,
> Glenda
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* "5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com" 
> <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
> *To:* 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> *Sent:* Friday, March 20, 2009 12:00:12 PM
> *Subject:* 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 32
>
> Send 5-DayForum mailing list submissions to
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>     
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>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of 5-DayForum digest..."
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1.  What happened??? (Sean Folkson)
>   2.  Pricing (Sean Folkson)
>   3. Re: What happened??? (Bill Effros)
>
>
> -----Inline Message Follows-----
>
> Bill,
>
> I don't quite understand....Holly got a high offer of $93K with her 
> $74K advertised price.  With a realtor, she had a buyer pay $125-$130K.
>
> I'm pretty sure you're stating in your reply that if her ad was for 
> $49,500 rather than $74,500 she would have received MORE than the $93K 
> she was offered in her 5-Day sale?  And, furthermore, she would have 
> gotten a buyer to pay the same range of $125K-$130K just by dropping 
> the advertised price down $25K?  that is from 60% of the ultimate 
> "market value" (as determined by the final sale transaction) down to 40%?
>
> Is that what you're saying?
>
> sean
>
>
>
>
> -----Inline Message Follows-----
>
> Hi Glenda,
>
> I hadn't asked on the phone what people could afford...only discovered 
> after the showing that perhaps we hadn't found the right crowd.
>
> I empathize with you.  Well, you can always call it off.  Or, go ahead 
> with the showing and try to network into a deal?
>
> I live in Manhattan as well...62nd & 1st.  Where is your place?
>
>
>
>
> -----Inline Message Follows-----
>
> Yes, Sean,
>
> That's EXACTLY what I'm saying.
>
> I know it's counter-intuitive, but I've been watching this for 20 
> years, and I originally advocated a starting price closer to the 
> perceived market price, while using much deeper discounts to the 
> starting price whenever I was personally involved in a sale.  My deep 
> discounted starting prices always did better.
>
> The deeper the initial discount, the better you will do -- however the 
> amount of work goes up exponentially as well, and there is a point of 
> diminishing returns.
>
> 50% dropped down to the next lowest magic number really works.
> Yes, yes, yes -- of course you attract a lot of people who cannot 
> afford the real price.  But you will also get 3 real ones, and they 
> really will bid the property up to current fair market value -- and it 
> really does work every single time ... provided that you follow 
> through on your offer, and make clear throughout the inspection and 
> round robin that the high bidder will be offered the house.
>
> Start weaseling, and all bets are off.
>
> Holly made some comment about "knowing they wanted the house for less 
> than 100K" and "ending the agony...".  At what point do you suppose 
> she told the bidders that they weren't going to get the house unless 
> she got a price she was happy with...which, at that time, was around 
> $150,000 because someone down the street had recently received $145?
>
> If you increase the starting price on your next home you will hurt the 
> final selling price -- especially given that you already did not 
> follow through on what turned out to be a fair price, and people will 
> remember.
>
> Bill Effros
> Author
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sean Folkson wrote:
> > Bill,
> >
> > I don't quite understand....Holly got a high offer of $93K with her 
> $74K advertised price.  With a realtor, she had a buyer pay $125-$130K.
> >
> > I'm pretty sure you're stating in your reply that if her ad was for 
> $49,500 rather than $74,500 she would have received MORE than the $93K 
> she was offered in her 5-Day sale?  And, furthermore, she would have 
> gotten a buyer to pay the same range of $125K-$130K just by dropping 
> the advertised price down $25K?  that is from 60% of the ultimate 
> "market value" (as determined by the final sale transaction) down to 40%?
> >
> > Is that what you're saying?
> >
> > sean
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > 5-DayForum mailing list
> > 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
> > 
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> >
> > 
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days..com>
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>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
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From eclmvoth at usfamily.net  Sat Mar 21 10:16:08 2009
From: eclmvoth at usfamily.net (Eric & Cheryl Voth)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 09:16:08 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [5-DayForum] searching the Forum archives
Message-ID: <000001c9aa2f$db4cad30$0200a8c0@VothDellPC>

Hello,

 

Is there any straightforward way to search the full text of the archives,
short of downloading the Gzipped file for each month?  Also, my version of
WinZip, 11.2, keeps saying "Invalid archive directory" whenever I try to
open one.  Has anyone else seen and solved this issue before?

 

Thanks,

Eric




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From bill at effros.com  Sat Mar 21 10:55:55 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 10:55:55 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] searching the Forum archives
In-Reply-To: <000001c9aa2f$db4cad30$0200a8c0@VothDellPC>
References: <000001c9aa2f$db4cad30$0200a8c0@VothDellPC>
Message-ID: <49C4FFFB.3040001@effros.com>

Eric,

Sorry I didn't reply sooner, I've been researching your answer.

Google used to index them automatically, but they keep changing their 
algorithms.

The easiest thing to do at this time is to join the list and ask 
questions.  People will point you back, or cut and paste sections of the 
archives.

I have actually stopped indexing the Forum for my own purposes, and I 
simply dip back into it to find prior questions and answers.  I sort by 
author and subject to find what I'm looking for, and I would suggest 
that you do the same, without ever downloading the entire file.

I try to get everyone to change the subject line so topics will be easy 
to spot.

Bill Effros
Author



Eric & Cheryl Voth wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
>  
>
> Is there any straightforward way to search the full text of the 
> archives, short of downloading the Gzipped file for each month?  Also, 
> my version of WinZip, 11.2, keeps saying "Invalid archive directory" 
> whenever I try to open one.  Has anyone else seen and solved this 
> issue before?
>
>  
>
> Thanks,
>
> Eric
>
>
> --- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! 
> <http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html> ---
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
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From sean at folkson.com  Sat Mar 21 13:02:40 2009
From: sean at folkson.com (Sean Folkson)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 18:02:40 +0100
Subject: [5-DayForum]  What happened???
Message-ID: <200903211704.n2LH4nMb009855@intel1.peregrinehw.com>

Bill,

I'd love to go, but I'm out of the country right now....otherwise, 
I'd take the walk down there.

How do I reply so that my reply ends up in the thread, and doesn't 
start a new one?

I see your point about the pricing.  I wish I had the book here to 
see what you wrote about one topic....What do we do in the case where 
somebody doesn't have to sell (like my case with the new home we're 
building) and we simply don't get an acceptable high end offer?

Do we just "counter-offer" to the high bidder what our acceptable 
number would be?  If we can't sell the house for at least $440K, I'd 
rather simply move into it, and then rent out our apt in 
Manhattan.  Since I don't NEED to sell, there's no way I'd let the 
house go for anything less than my "reserve".

Are you saying that in that case, we simply shouldn't run a 5-Day 
Sale?  I'd rather sell the house than keep it, and comps in the area 
are still around $500K (and this is brand new, high-end 
construction).  So, the way I see it, if I want to sell the house, 
but don't NEED to, I have 2 options:

1.  sell it with many of the 5-Day methods, but price at $439K
2.  Make a true 5-Day sale (but of course, if the high bid is $399K 
or something like that, we won't take it).
3.  List with a realtor at $485K (as a local realtor has suggested)

If we were to start at the true Effros Magic Number (shudder to think 
it would probably be $224,500 and that scares me to death), how do 
you deal with it if the high bid doesn't come close to what we would 
accept?  I believe you touched on this in your book, and I believe it 
was to let the high bidder know they need to come up to your number, 
but can't remember for sure, and the book is thousands of miles away.

tx
sean


From bill at effros.com  Sat Mar 21 15:11:54 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 15:11:54 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] What happened???
In-Reply-To: <200903211704.n2LH4nMb009855@intel1.peregrinehw.com>
References: <200903211704.n2LH4nMb009855@intel1.peregrinehw.com>
Message-ID: <49C53BFA.3040808@effros.com>

Sean,

You have to join the list to stay in the member's thread:

http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

Using the 5-Day Method to "check out the pricing" doesn't really work.  
As soon as you reveal that you won't REALLY take the high bid, the high 
bidders will take a hike -- why shouldn't they?  Why should they tell 
you the most they will REALLY pay if they already know you are just 
going to negotiate FROM that point?

You shouldn't use the 5-Day Method unless you are actually going to sell 
your home on Sunday night.  If you are just testing the market, use a 
broker, shoot for the moon, and then move into the house.

I ALWAYS sell to the high bidder.  (I really do.  If I'm not prepared to 
sell to the high bidder I don't use the 5-Day Method.)

Suppose you owned $500,000 worth of Citibank stock when you left the 
country that you didn't want to sell because you thought it would go up 
while you were away.  And supposed Citibank was teetering on bankruptcy 
when you got back.  What would you do?

You could wait some more and hope for the best.  Or you could tell your 
broker to sell it at the best price possible on the day you select for 
the sale.  If you decide to sell it, you will take the high bid, knowing 
full well that the price you saw when you authorized the sale may be 
very different from the price you get during the course of the day.  
Citibank's value has gone up and down 40% in the course of a single day, 
and you have no control whatever over whether you sell at the high price 
or the low price or anywhere in-between.  Notwithstanding that reality, 
you will take what you get at the end of the day.

Of course, you will be scared to death -- financially this is a scared 
to death time for most people.

I can't tell you when to sell, but I can tell you how to use the 5-Day 
Method.  I can see you are listening.  I don't claim it is not scary -- 
even after you've done it as many times as I have.  And it is 
emotionally draining, even if it's not your own house.

Bill Effros
Author

Sean Folkson wrote:
> Bill,
>
> I'd love to go, but I'm out of the country right now....otherwise, 
> I'd take the walk down there.
>
> How do I reply so that my reply ends up in the thread, and doesn't 
> start a new one?
>
> I see your point about the pricing.  I wish I had the book here to 
> see what you wrote about one topic....What do we do in the case where 
> somebody doesn't have to sell (like my case with the new home we're 
> building) and we simply don't get an acceptable high end offer?
>
> Do we just "counter-offer" to the high bidder what our acceptable 
> number would be?  If we can't sell the house for at least $440K, I'd 
> rather simply move into it, and then rent out our apt in 
> Manhattan.  Since I don't NEED to sell, there's no way I'd let the 
> house go for anything less than my "reserve".
>
> Are you saying that in that case, we simply shouldn't run a 5-Day 
> Sale?  I'd rather sell the house than keep it, and comps in the area 
> are still around $500K (and this is brand new, high-end 
> construction).  So, the way I see it, if I want to sell the house, 
> but don't NEED to, I have 2 options:
>
> 1.  sell it with many of the 5-Day methods, but price at $439K
> 2.  Make a true 5-Day sale (but of course, if the high bid is $399K 
> or something like that, we won't take it).
> 3.  List with a realtor at $485K (as a local realtor has suggested)
>
> If we were to start at the true Effros Magic Number (shudder to think 
> it would probably be $224,500 and that scares me to death), how do 
> you deal with it if the high bid doesn't come close to what we would 
> accept?  I believe you touched on this in your book, and I believe it 
> was to let the high bidder know they need to come up to your number, 
> but can't remember for sure, and the book is thousands of miles away.
>
> tx
> sean
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>   

From real.estate.professor at hotmail.com  Sat Mar 21 16:27:04 2009
From: real.estate.professor at hotmail.com (Kyle Cascioli)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 15:27:04 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] Denver 5 Day Multi-Unit Loft Sale
In-Reply-To: <49C27AD9.7030302@effros.com>
References: <BLU122-W40F70D1F23BAB0988640F4B4980@phx.gbl>
	<49C27AD9.7030302@effros.com>
Message-ID: <BLU122-W21CE66E1B305B1DA8EA324B4940@phx.gbl>


Hi Bill:

 

This was an unusual case as the builder had 12 units available and decided to amortize the cost of the effort over 4 units.  That said, I agree with you.  It was a little problematic.  The builder also allowed one bidder to bid on two units, which we should not have allowed.

 

In the end the builder did not take the two market offers of $192,500 and $193,500 for two of the one bedroom units.  Both bidders did their homework and knew what they were willing to pay.  I believe he will regret not taking these offers.

 

The third bidder was in agreement with the builder on pricing, but we just learned that that buyer can't get financing.

 

A respectable effort that produced two able buyers at market prices, and provided valuable market feedback on the project.

 

Case study to follow.

 

Best to all, 

 

Kyle Cascioli

www.AUctionByBuilder.com 

Denver, CO
 
> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 10:03:21 -0700
> From: bill at effros.com
> To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Denver 5 Day Multi-Unit Loft Sale
> 
> Thanks, Kyle,
> 
> I'm working off-site from a computer that can't approve messages to the 
> Forum from members whose "moderator flag" has not yet been unset. There 
> are several of them waiting, but I won't be able to approve them until I 
> get back to my office.
> 
> As you know, in my experience offering multiple units at one time never 
> works as well as selling them one at a time. Instead of competing with 
> each other, the buyers understand they are competing with the 
> builder--which, I believe, is what happened in this case.
> 
> Notwithstanding the pressure from the builder, I would have offered to 
> sell the least expensive unit first "as a demonstration".
> 
> That unit should be released at whatever price it brings, and the loss, 
> if there is one, should be written off to "R&D" or "Marketing" or whatever.
> 
> The builder can then decide what to do next.
> 
> As you know, the builder shot himself in the foot by turning down high 
> bids. His credibility with this method is shot, and he will never get 
> the high bid in the current market if potential buyers know he won't 
> "REALLY" sell to the high bidder.
> 
> Most of these people come back to the 5-Day Method after weeks or months 
> of never being offered as high a bid again. But now you are dealing 
> with a damaged seller, and people won't soon forget. The market is so 
> slow right now, there will be many people who see the second attempt who 
> also saw the first attempt.
> 
> I believe if you had run a single straight 5-Day Sale you would have 
> done better for your builder than you did with the complicated web site, 
> complex bidding procedure, and multiple unit sale. I understand it is 
> harder to get a fee for the value you add if you don't create a lot of 
> smoke and mirrors, but your knowledge of the system, and your ability to 
> convince skeptics is, in itself, extremely valuable--and I believe you 
> will get higher prices for your clients if you don't permit them to 
> reinvent this wheel.
> 
> Bill Effros
> Author
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kyle Cascioli wrote:
> > Hi Everyone:
> > 
> > My students are on Spring Break, so the formal case study may not be 
> > ready for a couple week or so.
> > 
> > In the meantime, I can report the following.
> > 
> > The builder built the property for over $250/SF and delivered it to 
> > market in August of 2008. Like many buyer's, flippers, investors, and 
> > other builders, this fellow did all the right things at the wrong time 
> > in developing this eclectic urban infill 16 unit project.
> > 
> > We marketed the units for nearly 3 weeks and had over 20 
> > pre-registrations, 4 pre-auction sealed bid entries, and had over 70 
> > groups come through the project during the two week inspection 
> > period. By Sunday night we had 15 bidders on four units.
> 
> 
> > 
> > The round robin bidding session lasted 4.5 hours utilizing both phone 
> > and our online virtual auction room.
> > 
> > We had final and best bids for all units. We had great interest and 
> > success bidding up the 1 bedroom units, but the market didn't react 
> > favorably to the two bedroom unit given the properties limitation of 1 
> > underground parking space per unit. It's obvious that in a good 
> > market property defects or project design flaws do not appear to have 
> > as detrimental an impact on pricing. In a down-market such defects or 
> > flaws are glaringly obvious, come under great scrutiny, and have a 
> > significant detrimental impact on pricing.
> > 
> > On two of the one bedroom units we achieved roughly 83% and 85% of the 
> > builders target price and he is holding firm (a mistake for market 
> > reasons too numerous to address in this email, but that will be 
> > addressed in the case study) and while everyone is still talking, I do 
> > not believe those two potential transactions will occur. However, it 
> > appears that we are going to contract on the the fourth unit, 3D.
> > 
> > The builder was extremely happy with the 5 Day Sale undertaking, as it 
> > generated great market interest and exposure for the project, created 
> > buyer activity where none existed before, produced excellent direct 
> > market feedback on the project's attributes and limitations, resulted 
> > in 15 offers for the 4 units, and may still conclude with the sale of 
> > a unit in an extremely dysfunctional marketplace.
> > 
> > We'll continue to keep you posted as events unfold and will post a new 
> > case study on the site soon.
> > 
> > It really works ...
> > 
> > Kyle Cascioli
> > www.AuctionByBuilder.com <http://www.auctionbybuilder.com/>
> > 
> > 
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Windows Live? Contacts: Organize your contact list. Check it out. 
> > <http://windowslive.com/connect/post/marcusatmicrosoft.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns%21503D1D86EBB2B53C%212285.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_UGC_Contacts_032009> 
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > 5-DayForum mailing list
> > 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> > 
> _______________________________________________
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From sean at folkson.com  Sat Mar 21 16:31:18 2009
From: sean at folkson.com (Sean Folkson)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 21:31:18 +0100
Subject: [5-DayForum]  What happened???
Message-ID: <200903212031.n2LKVwNn007715@intel1.peregrinehw.com>

Bill,

I'll check when I get back to NY in a week or two, but doesn't the 
book touch on the possibility that the seller may not be willing or 
able to take the high bid?

sean



From glendav24 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 22 04:30:38 2009
From: glendav24 at yahoo.com (V Glenda)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 01:30:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [5-DayForum] Pricing
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4.1237651203.22196.5-dayforum@mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
References: <mailman.4.1237651203.22196.5-dayforum@mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Message-ID: <37770.19805.qm@web111311.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hi!  All -
An update on our 5 day sale.  We had 33 people show up yesterday (not including their significant others).  The first couple strolled in just before 10:30...and it got busier towards the afternoon.  Two put down their names on the bid sheet, but not their bids, one wrote it on the business card...for the starting bid price of $269,500 (I transferred on the bid sheet the end of the day so I can keep track or should I not?), one said will call me back.  One wrote $275k and one couple called me after leaving the apartment and bid $250K.  The rest looked very interested so much so that they've read through at the building financials (which I made a copy available along with the coop house rules in hopes that it would make it easier for them to bid on the place...which is probably a mistake because they did not leave a bid though claim they will call).  Some took measurements (2)..  The rest promised to call me before 8pm Sunday night.  Some promised to come
 back with their significant others.  So we shall see...

When one would try to get at what my magic number is, I just said I don't know what the magic number is until I have all the bids Sunday night.  I said the apartment will be sold to the highest qualified bidder Sunday night. period....as Bill said.  When they ask why the price is so low, I said I don't want to leave it up to a broker to tell me what my apartment is worth to the buyers and let the buyers decide what it is worth to them to get my apartment.  Given the market, who can really decide better than the buyers...?  We all know it is priced WAY below the market price (2002 price), and as Bill said, I am hoping they will go up to the fair market value...When they ask why we are selling, we said we want to move because we have two kids in a 700 sq ft apartment...we need more room (no kidding), and we are currently in contract with a house in New Jersey (and we are though we don't need to sell this to get that..thank God!).  

For today's open house, I think I need to be more persuasive about leaving a bid on the sheet...I am thinking of putting a blank piece of paper to encourage those who would like to put the bid privately...I think I was not mentally prepared to usher them to putting a bid down on the sheet.  But that has to change if i am to sell to the highest bidder tonight....  

A word on advertising most of  our attendees got it through the NYT and Craig's list.  Two brokers showed up (one uninvited) one who promised to bring in buyers but came in empty handed...and walked away with Bill's 5 day sale idea....my husband did not know she's a broker and openly spoke with her about the sale processs...ooohh they are soo savvvy!

Thanks for the words of encouragement, Bill.  I will not be a weasel, I will not be a weasel, I will not be a weasel......:))) We'll sell tonight, we'll sell tonight, we'll sell tonight!

Best,
Glenda






________________________________
From: "5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com" <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 12:00:03 PM
Subject: 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 33

Send 5-DayForum mailing list submissions to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: What happened??? (Wayne Giese)
   2. Pricing (V Glenda)
   3.  Ads in Multiple news papers (Aamir Syed)
   4. Posting (HFraleyjr at aol.com)
   5.  What happened??? (Sean Folkson)
   6. Re: What happened??? (Bill Effros)
   7. Re: Pricing (Bill Effros)
   8. searching the Forum archives (Eric & Cheryl Voth)
   9. Re: searching the Forum archives (Bill Effros)


-----Inline Message Follows-----

Round Two of five day sale next weekend.

I am an investor in the Cape Coral Florida 
market. Houses here are selling for 50% of
building cost.

I am part of a large group that buy and hold long
 term. We just started testing the bottom of the market
for the first time in two years.

After acquiring a hand few and we wonder where the 
market top. 

Remembering the book I ready some years 
back we tried a 5 day sale. The response was great
we just had the wrong house for 90% of the buyers.
We are trying the sale again with the right house.

I read about another investor in the forum that does
something similar. And was wondering their methods.

I think the sale will be great due to the fact that we
are providing the right house.



On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 5:53 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:

Yes, Sean,

That's EXACTLY what I'm saying.

I know it's counter-intuitive, but I've been watching this for 20 years,
and I originally advocated a starting price closer to the perceived
market price, while using much deeper discounts to the starting price
whenever I was personally involved in a sale.  My deep discounted
starting prices always did better.

The deeper the initial discount, the better you will do -- however the
amount of work goes up exponentially as well, and there is a point of
diminishing returns.

50% dropped down to the next lowest magic number really works.

Yes, yes, yes -- of course you attract a lot of people who cannot afford
the real price.  But you will also get 3 real ones, and they really will
bid the property up to current fair market value -- and it really does
work every single time ... provided that you follow through on your
offer, and make clear throughout the inspection and round robin that the
high bidder will be offered the house.

Start weaseling, and all bets are off.

Holly made some comment about "knowing they wanted the house for less
than 100K" and "ending the agony...".  At what point do you suppose she
told the bidders that they weren't going to get the house unless she got
a price she was happy with...which, at that time, was around $150,000
because someone down the street had recently received $145?

If you increase the starting price on your next home you will hurt the
final selling price -- especially given that you already did not follow
through on what turned out to be a fair price, and people will remember.

Bill Effros
Author







Sean Folkson wrote:
> Bill,
>
> I don't quite understand....Holly got a high offer of $93K with her
> $74K advertised price.  With a realtor, she had a buyer pay $125-$130K.
>
> I'm pretty sure you're stating in your reply that if her ad was for
> $49,500 rather than $74,500 she would have received MORE than the
> $93K she was offered in her 5-Day sale?   And, furthermore, she would
> have gotten a buyer to pay the same range of $125K-$130K just by
> dropping the advertised price down $25K?  that is from 60% of the
> ultimate "market value" (as determined by the final sale transaction)
> down to 40%?
>
> Is that what you're saying?
>
> sean
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>
_______________________________________________
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5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum



-- 
Wayne Giese
(813) 482-5688
wayne at capecoralinvestmentproperties.com


-----Inline Message Follows-----


Hi!  Manhattan neighbor (61st and 2nd)....you did not leave your name.  

Anyway, I'm on 49th and 2nd...how long ago did you run your 5 day sale?  Tomorrow is our open house and I did get more than 25 inquiries starting from Wednesday to Friday, not counting the 100+ inquries we had gotten since advertising 3 weeks earlier.   We also managed to get publicity in a couple of local papers (with the wrong information on it...thanks to a Bellmarc broker, Merrill Flaum, who listed our apartment (full information and all) on their website, Easy Street, without our consent, after just a conversation with me over the phone where he was inquiring if he could bring in "two very interested and qualified clients."  Thus far I have two people show up at my door and a coop Board member wanted to make sure I have not lost my mind trying to sell it for that amount after they saw it on Metro.  The Real Deal wrote an article naming our place as the "cheapest that  came in the market this week and Bellmarc as the listing agent.  I have them
 correct it since then but I gave up running after the media for correction after I found out it was on the Metro and I continued to get calls from Bellmarc agents...it has been a stressful week, but I am glad to get it finally done this weekend. The apartment looks great, my husband and I are joking about walling off the living room to make extra room for the kids and scrapping this whole 5 day sale idea.  
 I do have a couple of seemingly very interested buyers, though I don't know if we can get them up to a price level we can live with..., but we are keeping an open mind about the pricing.... I will have to see how all the unsolicited publicity will impact this sale.  I am very curious to know what your experience had been like...?  How big is your apartment?  Why are you selling?

Best,
Glenda



________________________________
From: "5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com" <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 12:00:12 PM
Subject: 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 32

Send 5-DayForum mailing list submissions to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:

   1.  What happened??? (Sean Folkson)
   2.  Pricing (Sean Folkson)
   3. Re: What happened??? (Bill Effros)


-----Inline Message Follows-----

Bill,

I don't quite understand....Holly got a high offer of $93K with her $74K advertised price.  With a realtor, she had a buyer pay $125-$130K.

I'm pretty sure you're stating in your reply that if her ad was for $49,500 rather than $74,500 she would have received MORE than the $93K she was offered in her 5-Day sale?   And, furthermore, she would have gotten a buyer to pay the same range of $125K-$130K just by dropping the advertised price down $25K?  that is from 60% of the ultimate "market value" (as determined by the final sale transaction) down to 40%?

Is that what you're saying?

sean




-----Inline Message Follows-----

Hi Glenda,

I hadn't asked on the phone what people could afford...only discovered after the showing that perhaps we hadn't found the right crowd.

I empathize with you.  Well, you can always call it off.  Or, go ahead with the showing and try to network into a deal?

I live in Manhattan as well...62nd & 1st.  Where is your place?




-----Inline Message Follows-----

Yes, Sean,

That's EXACTLY what I'm saying.

I know it's counter-intuitive, but I've been watching this for 20 years, and I originally advocated a starting price closer to the perceived market price, while using much deeper discounts to the starting price whenever I was personally involved in a sale.  My deep discounted starting prices always did better.

The deeper the initial discount, the better you will do -- however the amount of work goes up exponentially as well, and there is a point of diminishing returns.

50% dropped down to the next lowest magic number really works. 
Yes, yes, yes -- of course you attract a lot of people who cannot afford the real price.  But you will also get 3 real ones, and they really will bid the property up to current fair market value -- and it really does work every single time ... provided that you follow through on your offer, and make clear throughout the inspection and round robin that the high bidder will be offered the house.

Start weaseling, and all bets are off.

Holly made some comment about "knowing they wanted the house for less than 100K" and "ending the agony...".  At what point do you suppose she told the bidders that they weren't going to get the house unless she got a price she was happy with...which, at that time, was around $150,000 because someone down the street had recently received $145?

If you increase the starting price on your next home you will hurt the final selling price -- especially given that you already did not follow through on what turned out to be a fair price, and people will remember.

Bill Effros
Author






Sean Folkson wrote:
> Bill,
> 
> I don't quite understand....Holly got a high offer of $93K with her $74K advertised price.  With a realtor, she had a buyer pay $125-$130K.
> 
> I'm pretty sure you're stating in your reply that if her ad was for $49,500 rather than $74,500 she would have received MORE than the $93K she was offered in her 5-Day sale?   And, furthermore, she would have gotten a buyer to pay the same range of $125K-$130K just by dropping the advertised price down $25K?  that is from 60% of the ultimate "market value" (as determined by the final sale transaction) down to 40%?
> 
> Is that what you're saying?
> 
> sean
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> 
>  

_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum



-----Inline Message Follows-----

I opted to go with just the Rockland Journal news (print and online), I'm at Day 2 of the sale, and I'm regretting not going with the NYtimes. So far I've only received 2 calls from Real Estate agents, and 5 from "potential" buyers. If we try this method again (and I hope we do), I will definitely post in both the journal news, and NYtimes. 

Despite the low response rate, my mother (the actual owner of the house) still wants to run the open house. I've explained to her the rule of 25. 

Apart from the news papers, I also placed flyers in high traffic areas,and posted online on Craigslist, but that has not generated any response. 

Thank you all for your input. 

-- 
-Aamir


-----Inline Message Follows-----

Friends - Has anyone experienced conducting a 5-day sale and did not 
receive a fair bid for your home? Especially after advertising that it would be 
sold to the highest bidder on Sunday Night?
 
How did you explain your decision to decline the highest bid after you had 
advertised that you would sell your home to the highest bidder?
 
Henry Fraley

________________________________
Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or less. 

-----Inline Message Follows-----

Bill,

just to clarify, we were truly and honestly planning on offering the house to the high bidder, and we did.  We told her we'd need $345K and we'd do it in a heartbeat.  She simply couldn't afford it.  we went down to the next 2 highest and they also told us they couldn't afford it.

Again, we did EVERYTHING as described in the book.  I didn't want anything to look back on in doubt.

We had 3 real buyers none of whom could afford to pay "Market Value" which is determined by what our buyer ultimately paid 10 weeks later.

Maybe the problem is that we had a conservative view of what that unit would sell for.  If we had a "pie in the sky" idea of market value, like if we were hoping for $500K, and we listed at $249,500, we'd have had more luck?  But with our conservative expectation for the sale price, when we did the 50% and rounded down, we got too low.

I understand your logic, but seems to me that you can advertise too low, and maybe you don't think you can, and maybe that's all we really disagree on......Let's use the example where you're saying that $49,500 would have been better than $74,500.  Would you extend that to say that $24,500 would have been EVEN better, albeit maybe 10 times more work?




-----Inline Message Follows-----

Sean,

"Market Value" is what you got, not what someone else paid.

You told your buyer you "need $345K" -- But that was not true.  You took very close to what that buyer bid.

You started at $174,500, which is not the magic number for a $345,000 home -- Your magic number should have been $149,500, which undoubtedly would have attracted more people who could not afford your home, but also would have attracted more of the real buyers as well -- driving your home above the market value you ultimately received 10 weeks later.

No matter how low you go, you will never get substantially more than the current market price.  I have made mistakes of starting too low from time to time, and gotten more than 500 responses to a single 8 line classified ad.  To say it was a lot of work to sort them all out would be an understatement, and I had to hire people to control the crowd.

So the too low starting price was counterproductive in terms of the cost of running the 5-Day Sale, but got exactly the same selling price as sales that drew 50-100 responses.

Some day when you have the time, stroll over to a Christie's or Sotheby's auction when they are auctioning off a multi-million dollar painting.  Do you really think all the people in the audience can afford the painting?  Is the starting bid greater or less than 50% of the selling price?  Read their rules -- does the seller pay a commission even if the finally bid price does not meet the "Reserve" price?  Do you think the seller gets 100% of the bid price?  Does the auctioneer, during the auction, question the ability of any bidder to pay the bid price?  Is the estimated price in their catalog often wildly off the high bid price?

Why do you think they run their auctions that way? 
Glenda is in the middle of her 5-Day Sale right now.  She started low enough to make quite a kerfluffle -- and that's the whole point!  Why don't you go down to see how she's doing.  Everyone in her building is down there, they've told their friends some idiot is selling her apartment too cheap, and they should buy it, the neighborhood is abuzz, and, if she doesn't blow it by weaseling, she will sell that apartment for the most anyone could possibly get on this weekend.

I'm sure she could use your help explaining the system.

Bill Effros
Author

Sean Folkson wrote:
> Bill,
> 
> just to clarify, we were truly and honestly planning on offering the house to the high bidder, and we did.  We told her we'd need $345K and we'd do it in a heartbeat.  She simply couldn't afford it.  we went down to the next 2 highest and they also told us they couldn't afford it.
> 
> Again, we did EVERYTHING as described in the book.  I didn't want anything to look back on in doubt.
> 
> We had 3 real buyers none of whom could afford to pay "Market Value" which is determined by what our buyer ultimately paid 10 weeks later.
> 
> Maybe the problem is that we had a conservative view of what that unit would sell for.  If we had a "pie in the sky" idea of market value, like if we were hoping for $500K, and we listed at $249,500, we'd have had more luck?  But with our conservative expectation for the sale price, when we did the 50% and rounded down, we got too low.
> 
> I understand your logic, but seems to me that you can advertise too low, and maybe you don't think you can, and maybe that's all we really disagree on.....Let's use the example where you're saying that $49,500 would have been better than $74,500.  Would you extend that to say that $24,500 would have been EVEN better, albeit maybe 10 times more work?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> 
>  



-----Inline Message Follows-----

Glenda,

If you play it straight, you will sell for the most anyone can get for
your coop this weekend.

DON'T WEASEL!!!!

Tell them all you're going to sell the co-op to the high bidder
tomorrow night.  Period.

If they say "What if...?  What if...?"  You just say, over and over,
that you're going to sell the co-op to the high bidder tomorrow night,
and if they want it, they've got to get their name on the bidding
sheet, and the high bidder on the bidding sheet gets the first call. 
You don't know if anybody has the money when push comes to shove, but
you will learn that first thing Monday morning--for right now, if they
want your Co-op, they've got to get their name, and any price, even a
penny, on your bidding sheet.

If they don't trust you, they shouldn't bid.

Even with all these people, you're not going to get MORE than your
co-op is currently worth, but you will wind up at the high end of the
current market value.

Bill Effros
Author

V Glenda wrote: 
Hi!  Manhattan neighbor (61st and 2nd)....you did not leave your
name.  

Anyway, I'm on 49th and 2nd...how long ago did you run your 5
day sale?  Tomorrow is our open house and I did get more than 25
inquiries starting from Wednesday to Friday, not counting the 100+
inquries we had gotten since advertising 3 weeks earlier.   We also
managed to get publicity in a couple of local papers (with the wrong
information on it...thanks to a Bellmarc broker, Merrill Flaum, who
listed our apartment (full information and all) on their website, Easy
Street, without our consent, after just a conversation with me over the
phone where he was inquiring if he could bring in "two very interested
and qualified clients."  Thus far I have two people show up at my door
and a coop Board member wanted to make sure I have not lost my mind
trying to sell it for that amount after they saw it on Metro.  The Real
Deal wrote an article naming our place as the "cheapest that  came in
the market this week and Bellmarc as the listing agent.  I have them
correct it since then but I gave up running after the media for
correction after I found out it was on the Metro and I continued to get
calls from Bellmarc agents...it has been a stressful week, but I am
glad to get it finally done this weekend. The apartment looks great, my
husband and I are joking about walling off the living room to make
extra room for the kids and scrapping this whole 5 day sale idea.  
 I do have a couple of seemingly very interested buyers, though
I don't know if we can get them up to a price level we can live
with..., but we are keeping an open mind about the pricing... I will
have to see how all the unsolicited publicity will impact this sale.  I
am very curious to know what your experience had been like...?  How big
is your apartment?  Why are you selling?

Best,
Glenda



________________________________
From: "5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com" <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Sent: Friday, March
20, 2009 12:00:12 PM
Subject: 5-DayForum
Digest, Vol 24, Issue 32

Send 5-DayForum mailing list submissions to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of 5-DayForum digest..."
Today's Topics:

  1.  What happened??? (Sean Folkson)
  2.  Pricing (Sean Folkson)
  3. Re: What happened??? (Bill Effros)


-----Inline Message Follows-----

Bill,

I don't quite understand.....Holly got a high offer of $93K with her
$74K advertised price.  With a realtor, she had a buyer pay $125-$130K.

I'm pretty sure you're stating in your reply that if her ad was for
$49,500 rather than $74,500 she would have received MORE than the $93K
she was offered in her 5-Day sale?  And, furthermore, she would have
gotten a buyer to pay the same range of $125K-$130K just by dropping
the advertised price down $25K?  that is from 60% of the ultimate
"market value" (as determined by the final sale transaction) down to
40%?

Is that what you're saying?

sean




-----Inline Message Follows-----

Hi Glenda,

I hadn't asked on the phone what people could afford...only discovered
after the showing that perhaps we hadn't found the right crowd.

I empathize with you.  Well, you can always call it off.  Or, go ahead
with the showing and try to network into a deal?

I live in Manhattan as well...62nd & 1st.  Where is your place?




-----Inline Message Follows-----

Yes, Sean,

That's EXACTLY what I'm saying.

I know it's counter-intuitive, but I've been watching this for 20
years, and I originally advocated a starting price closer to the
perceived market price, while using much deeper discounts to the
starting price whenever I was personally involved in a sale.  My deep
discounted starting prices always did better.

The deeper the initial discount, the better you will do -- however the
amount of work goes up exponentially as well, and there is a point of
diminishing returns.

50% dropped down to the next lowest magic number really works. 
Yes, yes, yes -- of course you attract a lot of people who cannot
afford the real price.  But you will also get 3 real ones, and they
really will bid the property up to current fair market value -- and it
really does work every single time ... provided that you follow through
on your offer, and make clear throughout the inspection and round robin
that the high bidder will be offered the house.

Start weaseling, and all bets are off.

Holly made some comment about "knowing they wanted the house for less
than 100K" and "ending the agony...".  At what point do you suppose she
told the bidders that they weren't going to get the house unless she
got a price she was happy with...which, at that time, was around
$150,000 because someone down the street had recently received $145?

If you increase the starting price on your next home you will hurt the
final selling price -- especially given that you already did not follow
through on what turned out to be a fair price, and people will remember.

Bill Effros
Author






Sean Folkson wrote:
> Bill,
> 
> I don't quite understand....Holly got a high offer of $93K with
her $74K advertised price.  With a realtor, she had a buyer pay
$125-$130K.
> 
> I'm pretty sure you're stating in your reply that if her ad was
for $49,500 rather than $74,500 she would have received MORE than the
$93K she was offered in her 5-Day sale?  And, furthermore, she would
have gotten a buyer to pay the same range of $125K-$130K just by
dropping the advertised price down $25K?  that is from 60% of the
ultimate "market value" (as determined by the final sale transaction)
down to 40%?
> 
> Is that what you're saying?
> 
> sean
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> 
>  

_______________________________________________
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________________________________

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-----Inline Message Follows-----


Hello,
 
Is there any straightforward way to search the full text of
the archives, short of downloading the Gzipped file for each month?  Also,
my version of WinZip, 11.2, keeps saying ?Invalid archive
directory? whenever I try to open one.  Has anyone else seen and solved
this issue before?
 
Thanks,
Eric

--- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! ---
 

-----Inline Message Follows-----

Eric,

Sorry I didn't reply sooner, I've been researching your answer.

Google used to index them automatically, but they keep changing their
algorithms.

The easiest thing to do at this time is to join the list and ask
questions.  People will point you back, or cut and paste sections of
the archives.

I have actually stopped indexing the Forum for my own purposes, and I
simply dip back into it to find prior questions and answers.  I sort by
author and subject to find what I'm looking for, and I would suggest
that you do the same, without ever downloading the entire file.

I try to get everyone to change the subject line so topics will be easy
to spot.

Bill Effros
Author



Eric & Cheryl Voth wrote: 
Hello,
 
Is there any
straightforward way to search the full text of
the archives, short of downloading the Gzipped file for each month?
 Also,
my version of WinZip, 11.2, keeps saying ?Invalid archive
directory? whenever I try to open one.  Has anyone else seen and solved
this issue before?
 
Thanks,
Eric

--- Get FREE High Speed
Internet from USFamily.Net! ---
 

________________________________

_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum 
_______________________________________________
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From glendav24 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 22 04:36:09 2009
From: glendav24 at yahoo.com (V Glenda)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 01:36:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [5-DayForum] condo sale in Hawaii
Message-ID: <773220.9463.qm@web111305.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hi!  Ed-
You will owe your current broker commission if the buyer saw your property at the time you were in contract with a broker.  Depending on your contract some even extend it to 6 months or so on any sale you make after you cancel your contract with the broker.  I suggest you read your broker contract...also on doing a 5 day sale...I suggest learning from this forum first and reading the book thoroughly, asking questions before embarking on it.  I read the book about a month ago, decided its simple enough to follow and went ahead and planned my 5 day sale, not realizing that questions come up as I am going through it which I wish I had known the answers to before doing what I am doing now.  We have a 5 day sale scheduled this weekend in NYC on our coopbut its eith



________________________________
From: "5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com" <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:20:49 AM
Subject: 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 27

Send 5-DayForum mailing list submissions to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of 5-DayForum digest..."
Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan (Steven Herbert)
   2. Re: Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan (Naji)
   3. 2009 update? (Cynthia Zimpfer)
   4.  Pricing? (Sean Folkson)
   5. Re: 2009 update? (Bill Effros)
   6. Re: Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan (lbicon at aol.com)
   7. Hawaii downtown condo - currently have realtor (Edmund Urban)
   8. Re: Hawaii downtown condo - currently have realtor
      (rosemarie-fred)
   9. Re: Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan (Jo Ann Kelty)
  10. Re: Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan (Jo Ann Kelty)
  11. Re: Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan (SKY HIGH)
  12. Re: Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan (Jo Ann Kelty)
  13. Re: Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan (SKY HIGH)
  14. Please Indicate Your Location (Bill Effros)
  15. Re: Please Indicate Your Location (Tom Wilson)
  16. Re: What happened??? (Holly MacIntyre)
  17. Re: Hawaii downtown condo - currently have realtor (Kyle Cascioli)
  18. Re: What happened??? (Bill Effros)


-----Inline Message Follows-----


Bill suggests I stop making payments.

Would THAT speed the process along? Or am I just
asking for trouble since I could be making them (it
just doesn't make sense to, according to Bill)?

Steven 
Washington HomeOwner


--- Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Steven
> 
> In most cases the bank will not negotiate with you
> untill you have missed
> payments.. but you can get a loan modification it
> will just take longer
> since those that are behind are normally the first
> to be considered.
> 
> If you want to go down that path you may want to
> start your process soon.
> 
> Jo Ann
> 
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Steven Herbert
> <sterbert at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> > I've toyed with the idea of walking away (or
> > threatening to at least). I bought at $257K and
> owe
> > $248K after 3.5 yrs. I'm not sure if I'm
> underwater or
> > not (probably even w/sealevel).
> >
> > I haven't missed payments, I'm not struggling to
> make
> > them. But we're a military family and would be
> moving
> > this October. Renting won't pay near the $1800
> > mortgage and I'll be losing my income when I move.
> > Would a bank care about my situation considering
> > October is a ways off?
> >
> > Steven
> >
> >
> > --- "O'Day, Lili" <lili at lilioday.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I just want to say that one other possibility
> for
> > > those who think they may have an unfair bank
> loan is
> > > to have a forensic loan audit done. (google it!)
> > > One of my clients just had it done on 3 of her
> > > Washington Mutual loans . Every one of them had
> > > serious violations, which would have meant she
> would
> > > have paid  hundred of thousands of dollars too
> much
> > > to the bank..... (all considered predatory
> loans)
> > > Now the bank is on the hot seat,   She's been
> > > offered some really sweet terms on one of the
> loans.
> > > already.  ..2.9% +   .  An audit that shows
> serious
> > > violations puts the borrower in a position to
> > > negotiate from a position of strength.
> > >
> > > Lili O'Day
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
>
5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Blili>=lilioday.com@
> > mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Naji
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:03 PM
> > > To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Definitions
> > > Principal
> > > adjective
> > > [PicExportError]             first or highest in
> > > rank, importance, value, etc.; chief; foremost.
> > > noun
> > > [PicExportError]             a chief or head of
> an
> > > organization
> > > [PicExportError]             something of
> primary
> > > importance
> > > [PicExportError]             Law. a person who
> > > authorizes another (an agent) to represent him
> or
> > > her
> > > [PicExportError]             Finance. a capital
> sum,
> > > the main amount of a loan or investment (as
> > > distinguished from interest or profit)
> > > Principle noun
> > > [PicExportError]             a fundamental
> > > assumption. The principles of physics dictate
> that
> > > you cannot travel faster than the speed of
> light.
> > > [PicExportError]             a generally
> acceptable
> >  > rule of action or behaviour. moral principles
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
>
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Bnkhouri>=
> > cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Bill Effros
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:54 PM
> > > To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Jo Ann,
> > >
> > > Naji's point, and my point is that many homes in
> > > many places are not worth the current value of
> the
> > > principal and probably will never ever be worth
> the
> > > value of the principal.
> > >
> > > A case in point would be a retirement community
> in
> > > Fort Meyers, Fla. where 64 of the 65 homes have
> been
> > > foreclosed.  That 65th home owner should get out
> of
> > > there as quickly as possible, and before paying
> any
> > > more money on the mortgage.  None of those homes
> > > will ever be lived in again.
> > >
> > > While this may seem like an extreme example,
> there
> > > are, at the least, 100,000s of thousands of
> homes
> > > that fall into this category at this time.  100%
> of
> > > their current value will be lost -- the only
> > > question is who will take the hit..  Let the
> banks
> > > and the taxpayers take the rest of the hit.  The
> > > home buyer has been hurt enough already, don't
> make
> > > it worse.
> > >
> > > This is not to say payment reduction may not be
> good
> > > for some people.
> > >
> > > But many on this list would be much better off
> > > immediately selling their homes either to the
> high
> > > bidder in a 5-Day Sale, or to their banks if the
> > > bank will not accept the current value of the
> home.
> > >
> > > Bill Effros
> > > Author
> > >
> > > PS -- Is it principal or principle....the
> principal
> > > is your pal...??
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jo Ann Kelty wrote:
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > I would agree if the homeowner is trying to
> > > negotiate with the banks directly.. because they
> do
> > > not know all the laws involved that can be used.
>  We
> > > nornally get the Modification for a period of 5
> > > years .. That give the homeowner the opportunity
> to
> > > get out from under any financial dificulties
> that
> > > they may be in at this time and if we are lucky
> the
> > > market may ( or may not ) go up in value.... but
> it
> > > will give them some breathing room ..
> > >
> > > If they negotiate with a bank ... the bank will
> > > normally only give them a 6 month reprive... and
> > > almost 50% will again be behind in thier
> payments 
=== message truncated ===>
_______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> 



      



-----Inline Message Follows-----

Steven,

There is no 1 size fits all solution. Every person has a different situation
and circumstances..

Start out with what your main objective is, and then take it from there...
There's no FREE lunch and you can't have the cake and eat it too. You will
have to pay the price one way or another, either by coming to the table with
money for the difference, getting zinged on your credit, getting hit by
uncle sam if it's not a primary residence, getting a deficiency judgment,
etc...

Let me know if you have any questions.

-Naji

This is from a previous posting that I made on this forum:

Anyone that purchased a home or refinanced (and tapped their equity) in the
last 5 years or so in many parts of the country (if not all of the country)
is upside down on their mortgage, i.e house worth less than what's owed on
it, or are falling behind on payments:

So what are the options if you're in that situation:

- Reinstatement - Determine the amount owed necessary to bring loan current.

This just prolongs the inevitable. If the house is worth much less,
especially in hard hit areas, expect to stay put for many many years before
you break even. So, you may find yourself in the same situation a few month
or years from now 
- Forbearance - Set up a payment plan to bring the loan current. 
Another option that's not really going to work. If someone cannot pay now,
how will he be able to become current with more payments. 
- Modification - Adjust the loan terms (interest rate, payment and length). 
Loan modification only benefits the banks at this point. They just tack it
on to the back end of the mortgage. 
This will only work if banks actually reduce the principal to match current
value. Unfortunately, less than 1% of loan modifications result in principal
reductions. 
- Deed-in-lieu - Give the property back to the lender. 
Works if the lender agrees to it and there aren't 2nd, 3rd, etc liens 
- Walk Away - Leave the property in the most beneficial way possible. 
    - Stay as long as you can in the home - You can stay at least 8
months before it goes to the bank and in states like Florida, expect to stay
almost 2 years. 
    - Don't pay the mortgage, but instead save it all so you can rebuild
your life 
    - When it's judgment time, find a place to rent and plan on renting
for a while 
    - You could also offload your property to someone as well 
- Short Sale - List the property for less than the amount owed. 
    - You can negotiate a short sale with your bank. You can do it
yourself or hire someone to do it on you behalf. It's really not that
difficult, all it takes is communicating with your lender 
    - Many banks are getting easier to work with while others are still
in dreamville 
    - Expect this to take months due to the bank backlogs. Also, some
banks want to see the property on the market for at least 90 days before
agreeing to anything. Then they do their own BPO (which is still out of
whack) and wait like everyone else thinking they can get all their money
back. 
- Refinance - Obtain a new loan to replace the current loan(s). 
Will not work unless you're going to bring a big chunk of change to the
table. 
- Excess Proceeds- Collecting excess money from the auction/sale of the
property. 
Wait until the property goes to the auction block and if there's any money
left after the 1st Lien holder is paid, you may get something back. Doubtful
in many cases since all the homes going back are worth less than the
mortgage 
- Postponements - Delay the auction/sale date of the property. 
Delay the public auction of the property while you try to figure something
out. This will only buy you time and you'll still have to face the music
later. 
- Stay In Your Home - Continue living in your current home. 
If you can afford the payments and are willing to stick it out for 10 years
or more, then just stay put

-----Original Message-----
From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of Steven Herbert
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 5:18 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan


Bill suggests I stop making payments.

Would THAT speed the process along? Or am I just
asking for trouble since I could be making them (it
just doesn't make sense to, according to Bill)?

Steven 
Washington HomeOwner


--- Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Steven
> 
> In most cases the bank will not negotiate with you
> untill you have missed
> payments.. but you can get a loan modification it
> will just take longer
> since those that are behind are normally the first
> to be considered.
> 
> If you want to go down that path you may want to
> start your process soon.
> 
> Jo Ann
> 
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Steven Herbert
> <sterbert at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> > I've toyed with the idea of walking away (or
> > threatening to at least). I bought at $257K and
> owe
> > $248K after 3.5 yrs. I'm not sure if I'm
> underwater or
> > not (probably even w/sealevel).
> >
> > I haven't missed payments, I'm not struggling to
> make
> > them. But we're a military family and would be
> moving
> > this October. Renting won't pay near the $1800
> > mortgage and I'll be losing my income when I move.
> > Would a bank care about my situation considering
> > October is a ways off?
> >
> > Steven
> >
> >
> > --- "O'Day, Lili" <lili at lilioday.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I just want to say that one other possibility
> for
> > > those who think they may have an unfair bank
> loan is
> > > to have a forensic loan audit done. (google it!)
> > > One of my clients just had it done on 3 of her
> > > Washington Mutual loans . Every one of them had
> > > serious violations, which would have meant she
> would
> > > have paid  hundred of thousands of dollars too
> much
> > > to the bank..... (all considered predatory
> loans)
> > > Now the bank is on the hot seat,   She's been
> > > offered some really sweet terms on one of the
> loans.
> > > already.  ..2.9% +   .  An audit that shows
> serious
> > > violations puts the borrower in a position to
> > > negotiate from a position of strength.
> > >
> > > Lili O'Day
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
>
5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Blili>=lilioday.com@
> > mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Naji
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:03 PM
> > > To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Definitions
> > > Principal
> > > adjective
> > > [PicExportError]             first or highest in
> > > rank, importance, value, etc.; chief; foremost.
> > > noun
> > > [PicExportError]             a chief or head of
> an
> > > organization
> > > [PicExportError]             something of
> primary
> > > importance
> > > [PicExportError]             Law. a person who
> > > authorizes another (an agent) to represent him
> or
> > > her
> > > [PicExportError]             Finance. a capital
> sum,
> > > the main amount of a loan or investment (as
> > > distinguished from interest or profit)
> > > Principle noun
> > > [PicExportError]             a fundamental
> > > assumption. The principles of physics dictate
> that
> > > you cannot travel faster than the speed of
> light.
> > > [PicExportError]             a generally
> acceptable
> >  > rule of action or behaviour. moral principles
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
>
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Bnkhouri>=
> > cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Bill Effros
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:54 PM
> > > To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Jo Ann,
> > >
> > > Naji's point, and my point is that many homes in
> > > many places are not worth the current value of
> the
> > > principal and probably will never ever be worth
> the
> > > value of the principal.
> > >
> > > A case in point would be a retirement community
> in
> > > Fort Meyers, Fla. where 64 of the 65 homes have
> been
> > > foreclosed.  That 65th home owner should get out
> of
> > > there as quickly as possible, and before paying
> any
> > > more money on the mortgage.  None of those homes
> > > will ever be lived in again.
> > >
> > > While this may seem like an extreme example,
> there
> > > are, at the least, 100,000s of thousands of
> homes
> > > that fall into this category at this time.  100%
> of
> > > their current value will be lost -- the only
> > > question is who will take the hit.  Let the
> banks
> > > and the taxpayers take the rest of the hit.  The
> > > home buyer has been hurt enough already, don't
> make
> > > it worse.
> > >
> > > This is not to say payment reduction may not be
> good
> > > for some people.
> > >
> > > But many on this list would be much better off
> > > immediately selling their homes either to the
> high
> > > bidder in a 5-Day Sale, or to their banks if the
> > > bank will not accept the current value of the
> home.
> > >
> > > Bill Effros
> > > Author
> > >
> > > PS -- Is it principal or principle...the
> principal
> > > is your pal...??
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jo Ann Kelty wrote:
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > I would agree if the homeowner is trying to
> > > negotiate with the banks directly.. because they
> do
> > > not know all the laws involved that can be used.
>  We
> > > nornally get the Modification for a period of 5
> > > years .. That give the homeowner the opportunity
> to
> > > get out from under any financial dificulties
> that
> > > they may be in at this time and if we are lucky
> the
> > > market may ( or may not ) go up in value.... but
> it
> > > will give them some breathing room ..
> > >
> > > If they negotiate with a bank ... the bank will
> > > normally only give them a 6 month reprive... and
> > > almost 50% will again be behind in thier
> payments 
=== message truncated ===>
_______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> 



      
_______________________________________________
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-----Inline Message Follows-----

HI,
We are looking to sell our home in Maplewood, New Jersey in the spring of 2010.
How has the 5 day method changed now vs. last year given the current economic recession we are in and with the housing slump?

Any advice you can send our way would be  very appreciated.
Thank you.

Cynthia Zimpfer




-----Inline Message Follows-----

Bill, we would have DEFINITELY taken $355K had we gotten it at the auction.  The buyer was incapable of going that high.

The buyers we attracted were not capable of paying fair market value, which was in the mid to upper 3's.

Whether we spooked them or not is up for debate, but we WERE prepared to accept fair market value.  They were not capable of paying it....We interviewed several brokers after the sale weekend, one of whom was the one we chose, and 2 others that had no "horse in the race".  The realtor had absolutely NO REASON to think we'd list the property with him if we didn't get the sale.

Anyway, lots of speculation on this thread.

Thanks for your feedback, and your book, which I think is a great resource....I'll run my "One Weekend Reserve Auction", or whatever I choose to call it, inspired by many of your ideas, and hope/expect to get current fair market value (as I was on my previous sale), which I am fairly confident is well above my asking price.

sean




-----Inline Message Follows-----

Cynthia,

There has been no change in how the 5-Day Method is employed.

You must start at 50% of the current market value -- you are not going to get what you believe you once could have gotten.

The New York area is among the last to really feel price declines.  They are just starting around here, whereas they have been palpable in other parts of the country for a year and a half.

What will happen a year from now is anyone's guess.

Bill Effros
Author



Cynthia Zimpfer wrote:
> HI,
> We are looking to sell our home in Maplewood, New Jersey in the spring  of 2010.
> How has the 5 day method changed now vs. last year given the current  economic recession we are in and with the housing slump?
> 
> Any advice you can send our way would be  very appreciated.
> Thank you.
> 
> Cynthia Zimpfer
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> 
>  



-----Inline Message Follows-----

Steven,

You should call your lender and give them a reason that you are "struggling" to make your payments. I have had about six clients call their lenders and get either "steamlined" refionances or loan payment mods. If you are looking for a significant reduction in your principle it isn't out there yet.

Conrad Kuiken, Loan Officer,short sale negociator,realtor,investor


-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Herbert <sterbert at yahoo.com>
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Sent: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 2:17 pm
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan


Bill suggests I stop making payments.

Would THAT speed the process along? Or am I just
asking for trouble since I could be making them (it
just doesn't make sense to, according to Bill)?

Steven 
Washington HomeOwner


--- Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Steven
> 
> In most cases the bank will not negotiate with you
> untill you have missed
> payments.. but you can get a loan modification it
> will just take longer
> since those that are behind are normally the first
> to be considered.
> 
> If you want to go down that path you may want to
> start your process soon.
> 
> Jo Ann
> 
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Steven Herbert
> <sterbert at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> > I've toyed with the idea of walking away (or
> > threatening to at least). I bought at $257K and
> owe
> > $248K after 3.5 yrs. I'm not sure if I'm
> underwater or
> > not (probably even w/sealevel).
> >
> > I haven't missed payments, I'm not struggling to
> make
> > them. But we're a military family and would be
> moving
> > this October. Renting won't pay near the $1800
> > mortgage and I'll be losing my income when I move.
> > Would a bank care about my situation considering
> > October is a ways off?
> >
> > Steven
> >
> >
> > --- "O'Day, Lili" <lili at lilioday.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I just want to say that one other possibility
> for
> > > those who think they may have an unfair bank
> loan is
> > > to have a forensic loan audit done. (google it!)
> > > One of my clients just had it done on 3 of her
> > > Washington Mutual loans . Every one of them had
> > > serious violations, which would have meant she
> would
> > > have paid  hundred of thousands of dollars too
> much
> > > to the bank..... (all considered predatory
> loans)
> > > Now the bank is on the hot seat,   She's been
> > > offered some really sweet terms on one of the
> loans.
> > > already.  ..2.9% +   .  An audit that shows
> serious
> > > violations puts the borrower in a position to
> > > negotiate from a position of strength.
> > >
> > > Lili O'Day
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
>
5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Blili>=lilioday.com@
> > mailman..howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Naji
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:03 PM
> > > To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Definitions
> > > Principal
> > > adjective
> > > [PicExportError]             first or highest in
> > > rank, importance, value, etc.; chief; foremost.
> > > noun
> > > [PicExportError]             a chief or head of
> an
> > > organization
> > > [PicExportError]             something of
> primary
> > > importance
> > > [PicExportError]             Law. a person who
> > > authorizes another (an agent) to represent him
> or
> > > her
> > > [PicExportError]             Finance. a capital
> sum,
> > > the main amount of a loan or investment (as
> > > distinguished from interest or profit)
> > > Principle noun
> > > [PicExportError]             a fundamental
> > > assumption. The principles of physics dictate
> that
> > > you cannot travel faster than the speed of
> light.
> > > [PicExportError]             a generally
> acceptable
> >  > rule of action or behaviour. moral principles
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
>
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Bnkhouri>=
> > cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Bill Effros
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:54 PM
> > > To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Jo Ann,
> > >
> > > Naji's point, and my point is that many homes in
> > > many places are not worth the current value of
> the
> > > principal and probably will never ever be worth
> the
> > > value of the principal.
> > >
> > > A case in point would be a retirement community
> in
> > > Fort Meyers, Fla. where 64 of the 65 homes have
> been
> > > foreclosed.  That 65th home owner should get out
> of
> > > there as quickly as possible, and before paying
> any
> > > more money on the mortgage.  None of those homes
> > > will ever be lived in again.
> > >
> > > While this may seem like an extreme example,
> there
> > > are, at the least, 100,000s of thousands of
> homes
> > > that fall into this category at this time.  100%
> of
> > > their current value will be lost -- the only
> > > question is who will take the hit..  Let the
> banks
> > > and the taxpayers take the rest of the hit.  The
> > > home buyer has been hurt enough already, don't
> make
> > > it worse.
> > >
> > > This is not to say payment reduction may not be
> good
> > > for some people.
> > >
> > > But many on this list would be much better off
> > > immediately selling their homes either to the
> high
> > > bidder in a 5-Day Sale, or to their banks if the
> > > bank will not accept the current value of the
> home.
> > >
> > > Bill Effros
> > > Author
> > >
> > > PS -- Is it principal or principle....the
> principal
> > > is your pal...??
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jo Ann Kelty wrote:
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > I would agree if the homeowner is trying to
> > > negotiate with the banks directly.. because they
> do
> > > not know all the laws involved that can be used.
>  We
> > > nornally get the Modification for a period of 5
> > > years .. That give the homeowner the opportunity
> to
> > > get out from under any financial dificulties
> that
> > > they may be in at this time and if we are lucky
> the
> > > market may ( or may not ) go up in value.... but
> it
> > > will give them some breathing room ..
> > >
> > > If they negotiate with a bank ... the bank will
> > > normally only give them a 6 month reprive... and
> > > almost 50% will again be behind in thier
> payments 
=== message truncated ===>
_______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> 



      
_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum 


________________________________
Job Hunting? Start with the companies that posted job openings this week. 

-----Inline Message Follows-----

Aloha!
We have had our downtown condo listed with a realtor for the past several months.  It went into escrow once at $380k in Jan, but fell out last month at the end of closing due to seller financing (there was a competing offer of $363k).  The potential buyer had an appraisal in Jan that received the full appraisal amount.
 
We recently had an investor cash offer at $357k and we countered at $363k, but they did not accept or go higher.  My wife wanted to accept their offer, and with the potential loss of sale or lower offer, I am now in the dog house.  They went to relook again today, but do not know if they will reoffer.  My thought is that the condo could get close to $370k.  I would imagine that we would accept if they offered close to the same amount (which seems a little low to me - even though it is cash), but how would we go about a 5-day sale considering we have a realtor?
 
Sorry if this question has been asked.  I wish I had read the book before we listed instead of this past week.  I joined the forum a couple of days ago, but have not gone through past threads.  If there is one that answers this question, could someone pass it on please?
Mahalo,
Ed

________________________________
Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Find out more. 

-----Inline Message Follows-----


I don't know anything about the real 
estate market in Hawaii - is it as bad as in most places? If so, I would think 
that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, and you should accept the 
offer.  Lots of people have being doing 5-day sales recently who thought 
their property was worth some amount, and come to find out the 5-day sale showed 
them that it was not worth that much after all.
If you don't get an offer now, and decide 
to go with the 5-day sale, you would have to ask your realtor to cancel the 
contract. If someone comes who already saw your house because of the realtor, 
you would, I think. still owe the commission.
Good luck. 
Rosemarie
Sometime 5-day seller, 
investor
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Edmund  Urban 
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 7:47 
PM
Subject: [5-DayForum] Hawaii downtown  condo - currently have realtor
Aloha!
We have had our downtown condo listed with a  realtor for the past several months.  It went into escrow once at $380k  in Jan, but fell out last month at the end of closing due to seller financing  (there was a competing offer of $363k).  The potential buyer had an  appraisal in Jan that received the full appraisal amount.
 
We  recently had an investor cash offer at $357k and we countered at $363k, but  they did not accept or go higher.  My wife wanted to accept their  offer, and with the potential loss of sale or lower offer, I am now in the dog  house.  They went to relook again today, but do not know if they will  reoffer.  My thought is that the condo could get close to $370k.  I  would imagine that we would accept if they offered close to the same amount  (which seems a little low to me - even though it is cash), but how would we go  about a 5-day sale considering we have a realtor?
 
Sorry  if this question has been asked.  I wish I had read the book before we  listed instead of this past week.  I joined the forum a couple of days  ago, but have not gone through past threads.  If there is one that  answers this question, could someone pass it on  please?
Mahalo,
Ed

________________________________
 Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Find out more. 
________________________________
 _______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing  list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum


-----Inline Message Follows-----


I would  never suggest to anyone to stop making payments... there is a liability to anyone that does that.... even an attorney would not suggest that you not make your payment if you can... that has to be your choice... 
 
Jo Ann


On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Steven Herbert <sterbert at yahoo.com> wrote:


Bill suggests I stop making payments.

Would THAT speed the process along? Or am I just
asking for trouble since I could be making them (it
just doesn't make sense to, according to Bill)?

Steven
Washington HomeOwner



--- Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Steven
>
> In most cases the bank will not negotiate with you
> untill you have missed
> payments.. but you can get a loan modification it
> will just take longer
> since those that are behind are normally the first
> to be considered.
>
> If you want to go down that path you may want to
> start your process soon.
>
> Jo Ann
>
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Steven Herbert
> <sterbert at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > I've toyed with the idea of walking away (or
> > threatening to at least). I bought at $257K and
> owe
> > $248K after 3.5 yrs. I'm not sure if I'm
> underwater or
> > not (probably even w/sealevel).
> >
> > I haven't missed payments, I'm not struggling to
> make
> > them. But we're a military family and would be
> moving
> > this October. Renting won't pay near the $1800
> > mortgage and I'll be losing my income when I move.
> > Would a bank care about my situation considering
> > October is a ways off?
> >
> > Steven
> >
> >
> > --- "O'Day, Lili" <lili at lilioday.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I just want to say that one other possibility
> for
> > > those who think they may have an unfair bank
> loan is
> > > to have a forensic loan audit done. (google it!)
> > > One of my clients just had it done on 3 of her
> > > Washington Mutual loans . Every one of them had
> > > serious violations, which would have meant she
> would
> > > have paid  hundred of thousands of dollars too
> much
> > > to the bank..... (all considered predatory
> loans)
> > > Now the bank is on the hot seat,   She's been
> > > offered some really sweet terms on one of the
> loans.
> > > already.  ..2.9% +   .  An audit that shows
> serious
> > > violations puts the borrower in a position to
> > > negotiate from a position of strength.
> > >
> > > Lili O'Day
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
>
5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Blili>=lilioday.com@

> > mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Naji
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:03 PM
> > > To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Definitions
> > > Principal
> > > adjective
> > > [PicExportError]             first or highest in
> > > rank, importance, value, etc.; chief; foremost.
> > > noun
> > > [PicExportError]             a chief or head of
> an
> > > organization
> > > [PicExportError]             something of
> primary
> > > importance
> > > [PicExportError]             Law.. a person who
> > > authorizes another (an agent) to represent him
> or
> > > her
> > > [PicExportError]             Finance. a capital
> sum,
> > > the main amount of a loan or investment (as
> > > distinguished from interest or profit)
> > > Principle noun
> > > [PicExportError]             a fundamental
> > > assumption. The principles of physics dictate
> that
> > > you cannot travel faster than the speed of
> light..
> > > [PicExportError]             a generally
> acceptable
> >  > rule of action or behaviour. moral principles
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
>
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Bnkhouri>=

> > cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Bill Effros
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:54 PM
> > > To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Jo Ann,
> > >
> > > Naji's point, and my point is that many homes in
> > > many places are not worth the current value of
> the
> > > principal and probably will never ever be worth
> the
> > > value of the principal.
> > >
> > > A case in point would be a retirement community
> in
> > > Fort Meyers, Fla. where 64 of the 65 homes have
> been
> > > foreclosed.  That 65th home owner should get out
> of
> > > there as quickly as possible, and before paying
> any
> > > more money on the mortgage.  None of those homes
> > > will ever be lived in again.
> > >
> > > While this may seem like an extreme example,
> there
> > > are, at the least, 100,000s of thousands of
> homes
> > > that fall into this category at this time.  100%
> of
> > > their current value will be lost -- the only
> > > question is who will take the hit.  Let the
> banks
> > > and the taxpayers take the rest of the hit.  The
> > > home buyer has been hurt enough already, don't
> make
> > > it worse.
> > >
> > > This is not to say payment reduction may not be
> good
> > > for some people..
> > >
> > > But many on this list would be much better off
> > > immediately selling their homes either to the
> high
> > > bidder in a 5-Day Sale, or to their banks if the
> > > bank will not accept the current value of the
> home.
> > >
> > > Bill Effros
> > > Author
> > >
> > > PS -- Is it principal or principle...the
> principal
> > > is your pal...??
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jo Ann Kelty wrote:
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > I would agree if the homeowner is trying to
> > > negotiate with the banks directly.. because they
> do
> > > not know all the laws involved that can be used.
>  We
> > > nornally get the Modification for a period of 5
> > > years .. That give the homeowner the opportunity
> to
> > > get out from under any financial dificulties
> that
> > > they may be in at this time and if we are lucky
> the
> > > market may ( or may not ) go up in value.... but
> it
> > > will give them some breathing room ..
> > >
> > > If they negotiate with a bank ... the bank will
> > > normally only give them a 6 month reprive... and
> > > almost 50% will again be behind in thier
> payments

=== message truncated ===>
_______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>




_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum



-----Inline Message Follows-----


Conrad 
 
You are correct regarding the principle... however here in Florida I am seeing the increase in the reduction of principle... last week we had a client that the negotiators were able to reduce the principle from apx 300k to 150k  and we are seeing more and more of this happening here.. but  it is case by case and there are no guarentees..
 
Jo Ann


2009/3/16 <lbicon at aol.com>

Steven,

You should call your lender and give them a reason that you are "struggling" to make your payments. I have had about six clients call their lenders and get either "steamlined" refionances or loan payment mods. If you are looking for a significant reduction in your principle it isn't out there yet.

Conrad Kuiken, Loan Officer,short sale negociator,realtor,investor 



-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Herbert <sterbert at yahoo.com>
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Sent: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 2:17 pm
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan


Bill suggests I stop making payments.

Would THAT speed the process along? Or am I just
asking for trouble since I could be making them (it
just doesn't make sense to, according to Bill)?

Steven 
Washington HomeOwner


--- Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Steven
> 
> In most cases the bank will not negotiate with you
> untill you have missed
> payments.. but you can get a loan modification it
> will just take longer
> since those that are behind are normally the first
> to be considered.
> 
> If you want to go down that path you may want to
> start your process soon.
> 
> Jo Ann
> 
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Steven Herbert
> <sterbert at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> > I've toyed with the idea of walking away (or
> > threatening to at least). I bought at $257K and
> owe
> > $248K after 3.5 yrs. I'm not sure if I'm
> underwater or
> > not (probably even w/sealevel).
> >
> > I haven't missed payments, I'm not struggling to
> make
> > them. But we're a military family and would be
> moving
> > this October. Renting won't pay near the $1800
> > mortgage and I'll be losing my income when I move.
> > Would a bank care about my situation considering
> > October is a ways off?
> >
> > Steven
> >
> >
> > --- "O'Day, Lili" <lili at lilioday.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I just want to say that one other possibility
> for
> > > those who think they may have an unfair bank
> loan is
> > > to have a forensic loan audit done. (google it!)
> > > One of my clients just had it done on 3 of her
> > > Washington Mutual loans . Every one of them had
> > > serious violations, which would have meant she
> would
> > > have paid  hundred of thousands of dollars too
> much
> > > to the bank..... (all considered predatory
> loans)
> > > Now the bank is on the hot seat,   She's been
> > > offered some really sweet terms on one of the
> loans.
> > > already.  ..2.9% +   .  An audit that shows
> serious
> > > violations puts the borrower in a position to
> > > negotiate from a position of strength.
> > >
> > > Lili O'Day
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
>
5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Blili>=lilioday.com@
> > mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Naji
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:03 PM
> > > To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Definitions
> > > Principal
> > > adjective
> > > [PicExportError]             first or highest in
> > > rank, importance, value, etc.; chief; foremost.
> > > noun
> > > [PicExportError]             a chief or head of
> an
> > > organization
> > > [PicExportError]             something of
> primary
> > > importance
> > > [PicExportError]             Law. a person who
> > > authorizes another (an agent) to represent him
> or
> > > her
> > > [PicExportError]             Finance. a capital
> sum,
> > > the main amount of a loan or investment (as
> > > distinguished from interest or profit)
> > > Principle noun
> > > [PicExportError]             a fundamental
> > > assumption. The principles of physics dictate
> that
> > > you cannot travel faster than the speed of
> light.
> > > [PicExportError]             a generally
> acceptable
> >  > rule of action or behaviour. moral principles
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
>
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Bnkhouri>=
> > cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Bill Effros
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:54 PM
> > > To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Jo Ann,
> > >
> > > Naji's point, and my point is that many homes in
> > > many places are not worth the current value of
> the
> > > principal and probably will never ever be worth
> the
> > > value of the principal.
> > >
> > > A case in point would be a retirement community
> in
> > > Fort Meyers, Fla. where 64 of the 65 homes have
> been
> > > foreclosed.  That 65th home owner should get out
> of
> > > there as quickly as possible, and before paying
> any
> > > more money on the mortgage.  None of those homes
> > > will ever be lived in again.
> > >
> > > While this may seem like an extreme example,
> there
> > > are, at the least, 100,000s of thousands of
> homes
> > > that fall into this category at this time.  100%
> of
> > > their current value will be lost -- the only
> > > question is who will take the hit.  Let the
> banks
> > > and the taxpayers take the rest of the hit.  The
> > > home buyer has been hurt enough already, don't
> make
> > > it worse..
> > >
> > > This is not to say payment reduction may not be
> good
> > > for some people.
> > >
> > > But many on this list would be much better off
> > > immediately selling their homes either to the
> high
> > > bidder in a 5-Day Sale, or to their banks if the
> > > bank will not accept the current value of the
> home.
> > >
> > > Bill Effros
> > > Author
> > >
> > > PS -- Is it principal or principle...the
> principal
> > > is your pal...??
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jo Ann Kelty wrote:
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > I would agree if the homeowner is trying to
> > > negotiate with the banks directly.. because they
> do
> > > not know all the laws involved that can be used.
>  We
> > > nornally get the Modification for a period of 5
> > > years .. That give the homeowner the opportunity
> to
> > > get out from under any financial dificulties
> that
> > > they may be in at this time and if we are lucky
> the
> > > market may ( or may not ) go up in value.... but
> it
> > > will give them some breathing room ..
> > >
> > > If they negotiate with a bank ... the bank will
> > > normally only give them a 6 month reprive... and
> > > almost 50% will again be behind in thier
> payments 
=== message truncated ===>
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> 5-DayForum mailing list
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>
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> 



      
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________________________________
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-----Inline Message Follows-----


Can you explain how you go about trying to convince the bank to modify & reduce principal?

Carlos A. Chica
Sky High Planning, Inc.
7380 Sand Lake Rd.  #500
Orlando, FL  32819
Office:  (407) 352-3220
Fax:      (407) 738-4816
Cell:      (646) 552-0107
skyhighplanning at gmail.com

Coming Soon:

www. SKYHIGHPLANNING .com

"It's kind of Fun to do the Impossible"

 -  Walt Disney

On Mar 16, 2009, at 11:18 PM, Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com> wrote:


I would  never suggest to anyone to stop making payments... there is a liability to anyone that does that.... even an attorney would not suggest that you not make your payment if you can... that has to be your choice... 
 
Jo Ann


On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Steven Herbert <sterbert at yahoo.com> wrote:


Bill suggests I stop making payments..

Would THAT speed the process along? Or am I just
asking for trouble since I could be making them (it
just doesn't make sense to, according to Bill)?

Steven
Washington HomeOwner



--- Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Steven
>
> In most cases the bank will not negotiate with you
> untill you have missed
> payments.. but you can get a loan modification it
> will just take longer
> since those that are behind are normally the first
> to be considered.
>
> If you want to go down that path you may want to
> start your process soon.
>
> Jo Ann
>
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Steven Herbert
> <sterbert at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > I've toyed with the idea of walking away (or
> > threatening to at least). I bought at $257K and
> owe
> > $248K after 3.5 yrs. I'm not sure if I'm
> underwater or
> > not (probably even w/sealevel).
> >
> > I haven't missed payments, I'm not struggling to
> make
> > them. But we're a military family and would be
> moving
> > this October. Renting won't pay near the $1800
> > mortgage and I'll be losing my income when I move.
> > Would a bank care about my situation considering
> > October is a ways off?
> >
> > Steven
> >
> >
> > --- "O'Day, Lili" <lili at lilioday.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I just want to say that one other possibility
> for
> > > those who think they may have an unfair bank
> loan is
> > > to have a forensic loan audit done. (google it!)
> > > One of my clients just had it done on 3 of her
> > > Washington Mutual loans . Every one of them had
> > > serious violations, which would have meant she
> would
> > > have paid  hundred of thousands of dollars too
> much
> > > to the bank..... (all considered predatory
> loans)
> > > Now the bank is on the hot seat,   She's been
> > > offered some really sweet terms on one of the
> loans.
> > > already.  ..2.9% +   .  An audit that shows
> serious
> > > violations puts the borrower in a position to
> > > negotiate from a position of strength.
> > >
> > > Lili O'Day
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
>
5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Blili>=lilioday.com@

> > mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Naji
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:03 PM
> > > To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Definitions
> > > Principal
> > > adjective
> > > [PicExportError]             first or highest in
> > > rank, importance, value, etc.; chief; foremost.
> > > noun
> > > [PicExportError]             a chief or head of
> an
> > > organization
> > > [PicExportError]             something of
> primary
> > > importance
> > > [PicExportError]             Law. a person who
> > > authorizes another (an agent) to represent him
> or
> > > her
> > > [PicExportError]             Finance. a capital
> sum,
> > > the main amount of a loan or investment (as
> > > distinguished from interest or profit)
> > > Principle noun
> > > [PicExportError]             a fundamental
> > > assumption. The principles of physics dictate
> that
> > > you cannot travel faster than the speed of
> light.
> > > [PicExportError]             a generally
> acceptable
> >  > rule of action or behaviour. moral principles
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
>
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Bnkhouri>=

> > cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Bill Effros
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:54 PM
> > > To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Jo Ann,
> > >
> > > Naji's point, and my point is that many homes in
> > > many places are not worth the current value of
> the
> > > principal and probably will never ever be worth
> the
> > > value of the principal.
> > >
> > > A case in point would be a retirement community
> in
> > > Fort Meyers, Fla. where 64 of the 65 homes have
> been
> > > foreclosed.  That 65th home owner should get out
> of
> > > there as quickly as possible, and before paying
> any
> > > more money on the mortgage.  None of those homes
> > > will ever be lived in again.
> > >
> > > While this may seem like an extreme example,
> there
> > > are, at the least, 100,000s of thousands of
> homes
> > > that fall into this category at this time.  100%
> of
> > > their current value will be lost -- the only
> > > question is who will take the hit.  Let the
> banks
> > > and the taxpayers take the rest of the hit.  The
> > > home buyer has been hurt enough already, don't
> make
> > > it worse.
> > >
> > > This is not to say payment reduction may not be
> good
> > > for some people.
> > >
> > > But many on this list would be much better off
> > > immediately selling their homes either to the
> high
> > > bidder in a 5-Day Sale, or to their banks if the
> > > bank will not accept the current value of the
> home.
> > >
> > > Bill Effros
> > > Author
> > >
> > > PS -- Is it principal or principle...the
> principal
> > > is your pal...??
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jo Ann Kelty wrote:
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > I would agree if the homeowner is trying to
> > > negotiate with the banks directly.. because they
> do
> > > not know all the laws involved that can be used.
>  We
> > > nornally get the Modification for a period of 5
> > > years .. That give the homeowner the opportunity
> to
> > > get out from under any financial dificulties
> that
> > > they may be in at this time and if we are lucky
> the
> > > market may ( or may not ) go up in value.... but
> it
> > > will give them some breathing room ..
> > >
> > > If they negotiate with a bank ... the bank will
> > > normally only give them a 6 month reprive... and
> > > almost 50% will again be behind in thier
> payments

=== message truncated ===>
_______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>




_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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-----Inline Message Follows-----


Hi Carlos
 
I do not do the negotiation.. I process the paperwork.. and send it to the attorneys and negotiators..
 
The paperwork is very similar to a short sale..with the exception that you need to show that you have the income to make the lower payments once they are negotiated.
 
Jo Ann


2009/3/17 SKY HIGH <skyhighplanning at gmail.com>

Can you explain how you go about trying to convince the bank to modify & reduce principal?

Carlos A. Chica 
Sky High Planning, Inc.
7380 Sand Lake Rd.  #500
Orlando, FL  32819
Office:  (407) 352-3220
Fax:      (407) 738-4816
Cell:      (646) 552-0107
skyhighplanning at gmail.com

Coming Soon:

www. SKYHIGHPLANNING .com

"It's kind of Fun to do the Impossible"

 -  Walt Disney

On Mar 16, 2009, at 11:18 PM, Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com> wrote:


I would  never suggest to anyone to stop making payments... there is a liability to anyone that does that.... even an attorney would not suggest that you not make your payment if you can... that has to be your choice... 
 
Jo Ann


On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Steven Herbert <sterbert at yahoo.com> wrote:


Bill suggests I stop making payments.

Would THAT speed the process along? Or am I just
asking for trouble since I could be making them (it
just doesn't make sense to, according to Bill)?

Steven
Washington HomeOwner



--- Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Steven
>
> In most cases the bank will not negotiate with you
> untill you have missed
> payments.. but you can get a loan modification it
> will just take longer
> since those that are behind are normally the first
> to be considered.
>
> If you want to go down that path you may want to
> start your process soon.
>
> Jo Ann
>
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Steven Herbert
> <sterbert at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > I've toyed with the idea of walking away (or
> > threatening to at least). I bought at $257K and
> owe
> > $248K after 3.5 yrs. I'm not sure if I'm
> underwater or
> > not (probably even w/sealevel)..
> >
> > I haven't missed payments, I'm not struggling to
> make
> > them. But we're a military family and would be
> moving
> > this October. Renting won't pay near the $1800
> > mortgage and I'll be losing my income when I move.
> > Would a bank care about my situation considering
> > October is a ways off?
> >
> > Steven
> >
> >
> > --- "O'Day, Lili" <lili at lilioday.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I just want to say that one other possibility
> for
> > > those who think they may have an unfair bank
> loan is
> > > to have a forensic loan audit done. (google it!)
> > > One of my clients just had it done on 3 of her
> > > Washington Mutual loans . Every one of them had
> > > serious violations, which would have meant she
> would
> > > have paid  hundred of thousands of dollars too
> much
> > > to the bank..... (all considered predatory
> loans)
> > > Now the bank is on the hot seat,   She's been
> > > offered some really sweet terms on one of the
> loans.
> > > already.  ..2.9% +   .  An audit that shows
> serious
> > > violations puts the borrower in a position to
> > > negotiate from a position of strength.
> > >
> > > Lili O'Day
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
>
5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Blili>=lilioday.com@

> > mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Naji
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:03 PM
> > > To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Definitions
> > > Principal
> > > adjective
> > > [PicExportError]             first or highest in
> > > rank, importance, value, etc.; chief; foremost.
> > > noun
> > > [PicExportError]             a chief or head of
> an
> > > organization
> > > [PicExportError]             something of
> primary
> > > importance
> > > [PicExportError]             Law. a person who
> > > authorizes another (an agent) to represent him
> or
> > > her
> > > [PicExportError]             Finance. a capital
> sum,
> > > the main amount of a loan or investment (as
> > > distinguished from interest or profit)
> > > Principle noun
> > > [PicExportError]             a fundamental
> > > assumption. The principles of physics dictate
> that
> > > you cannot travel faster than the speed of
> light.
> > > [PicExportError]             a generally
> acceptable
> >  > rule of action or behaviour. moral principles
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
>
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Bnkhouri>=

> > cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days..com]
> > > On Behalf Of Bill Effros
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:54 PM
> > > To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Jo Ann,
> > >
> > > Naji's point, and my point is that many homes in
> > > many places are not worth the current value of
> the
> > > principal and probably will never ever be worth
> the
> > > value of the principal.
> > >
> > > A case in point would be a retirement community
> in
> > > Fort Meyers, Fla. where 64 of the 65 homes have
> been
> > > foreclosed.  That 65th home owner should get out
> of
> > > there as quickly as possible, and before paying
> any
> > > more money on the mortgage.  None of those homes
> > > will ever be lived in again.
> > >
> > > While this may seem like an extreme example,
> there
> > > are, at the least, 100,000s of thousands of
> homes
> > > that fall into this category at this time.  100%
> of
> > > their current value will be lost -- the only
> > > question is who will take the hit.  Let the
> banks
> > > and the taxpayers take the rest of the hit.  The
> > > home buyer has been hurt enough already, don't
> make
> > > it worse..
> > >
> > > This is not to say payment reduction may not be
> good
> > > for some people.
> > >
> > > But many on this list would be much better off
> > > immediately selling their homes either to the
> high
> > > bidder in a 5-Day Sale, or to their banks if the
> > > bank will not accept the current value of the
> home.
> > >
> > > Bill Effros
> > > Author
> > >
> > > PS -- Is it principal or principle...the
> principal
> > > is your pal...??
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jo Ann Kelty wrote:
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > I would agree if the homeowner is trying to
> > > negotiate with the banks directly.. because they
> do
> > > not know all the laws involved that can be used.
>  We
> > > nornally get the Modification for a period of 5
> > > years .. That give the homeowner the opportunity
> to
> > > get out from under any financial dificulties
> that
> > > they may be in at this time and if we are lucky
> the
> > > market may ( or may not ) go up in value.... but
> it
> > > will give them some breathing room ..
> > >
> > > If they negotiate with a bank ... the bank will
> > > normally only give them a 6 month reprive... and
> > > almost 50% will again be behind in thier
> payments

=== message truncated ===>
_______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>




_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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-----Inline Message Follows-----


I understand.  If you could find out any tips for handling the modification process it would greatly be appreciated.  Thanks

Carlos A. Chica
Sky High Planning, Inc.
7380 Sand Lake Rd.  #500
Orlando, FL  32819
Office:  (407) 352-3220
Fax:      (407) 738-4816
Cell:      (646) 552-0107
skyhighplanning at gmail.com

Coming Soon:

www. SKYHIGHPLANNING .com

"It's kind of Fun to do the Impossible"

 -  Walt Disney

On Mar 17, 2009, at 8:07 AM, Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com> wrote:


Hi Carlos
 
I do not do the negotiation.. I process the paperwork.. and send it to the attorneys and negotiators..
 
The paperwork is very similar to a short sale..with the exception that you need to show that you have the income to make the lower payments once they are negotiated.
 
Jo Ann


2009/3/17 SKY HIGH <skyhighplanning at gmail.com>

Can you explain how you go about trying to convince the bank to modify & reduce principal?

Carlos A. Chica 
Sky High Planning, Inc.
7380 Sand Lake Rd.  #500
Orlando, FL  32819
Office:  (407) 352-3220
Fax:      (407) 738-4816
Cell:      (646) 552-0107
skyhighplanning at gmail.com

Coming Soon:

www. SKYHIGHPLANNING .com

"It's kind of Fun to do the Impossible"

 -  Walt Disney

On Mar 16, 2009, at 11:18 PM, Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com> wrote:


I would  never suggest to anyone to stop making payments... there is a liability to anyone that does that.... even an attorney would not suggest that you not make your payment if you can... that has to be your choice... 
 
Jo Ann


On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Steven Herbert <sterbert at yahoo.com> wrote:


Bill suggests I stop making payments.

Would THAT speed the process along? Or am I just
asking for trouble since I could be making them (it
just doesn't make sense to, according to Bill)?

Steven
Washington HomeOwner



--- Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Steven
>
> In most cases the bank will not negotiate with you
> untill you have missed
> payments.. but you can get a loan modification it
> will just take longer
> since those that are behind are normally the first
> to be considered.
>
> If you want to go down that path you may want to
> start your process soon.
>
> Jo Ann
>
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Steven Herbert
> <sterbert at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > I've toyed with the idea of walking away (or
> > threatening to at least). I bought at $257K and
> owe
> > $248K after 3.5 yrs. I'm not sure if I'm
> underwater or
> > not (probably even w/sealevel).
> >
> > I haven't missed payments, I'm not struggling to
> make
> > them. But we're a military family and would be
> moving
> > this October. Renting won't pay near the $1800
> > mortgage and I'll be losing my income when I move.
> > Would a bank care about my situation considering
> > October is a ways off?
> >
> > Steven
> >
> >
> > --- "O'Day, Lili" <lili at lilioday.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I just want to say that one other possibility
> for
> > > those who think they may have an unfair bank
> loan is
> > > to have a forensic loan audit done. (google it!)
> > > One of my clients just had it done on 3 of her
> > > Washington Mutual loans . Every one of them had
> > > serious violations, which would have meant she
> would
> > > have paid  hundred of thousands of dollars too
> much
> > > to the bank..... (all considered predatory
> loans)
> > > Now the bank is on the hot seat,   She's been
> > > offered some really sweet terms on one of the
> loans.
> > > already.  ..2.9% +   .  An audit that shows
> serious
> > > violations puts the borrower in a position to
> > > negotiate from a position of strength.
> > >
> > > Lili O'Day
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
>
5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Blili>=lilioday.com@

> > mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Naji
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:03 PM
> > > To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Definitions
> > > Principal
> > > adjective
> > > [PicExportError]             first or highest in
> > > rank, importance, value, etc.; chief; foremost.
> > > noun
> > > [PicExportError]             a chief or head of
> an
> > > organization
> > > [PicExportError]             something of
> primary
> > > importance
> > > [PicExportError]             Law. a person who
> > > authorizes another (an agent) to represent him
> or
> > > her
> > > [PicExportError]             Finance. a capital
> sum,
> > > the main amount of a loan or investment (as
> > > distinguished from interest or profit)
> > > Principle noun
> > > [PicExportError]             a fundamental
> > > assumption. The principles of physics dictate
> that
> > > you cannot travel faster than the speed of
> light.
> > > [PicExportError]             a generally
> acceptable
> >  > rule of action or behaviour. moral principles
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
>
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Bnkhouri>=

> > cfl..rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Bill Effros
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:54 PM
> > > To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Jo Ann,
> > >
> > > Naji's point, and my point is that many homes in
> > > many places are not worth the current value of
> the
> > > principal and probably will never ever be worth
> the
> > > value of the principal.
> > >
> > > A case in point would be a retirement community
> in
> > > Fort Meyers, Fla. where 64 of the 65 homes have
> been
> > > foreclosed.  That 65th home owner should get out
> of
> > > there as quickly as possible, and before paying
> any
> > > more money on the mortgage.  None of those homes
> > > will ever be lived in again.
> > >
> > > While this may seem like an extreme example,
> there
> > > are, at the least, 100,000s of thousands of
> homes
> > > that fall into this category at this time.  100%
> of
> > > their current value will be lost -- the only
> > > question is who will take the hit.  Let the
> banks
> > > and the taxpayers take the rest of the hit.  The
> > > home buyer has been hurt enough already, don't
> make
> > > it worse.
> > >
> > > This is not to say payment reduction may not be
> good
> > > for some people.
> > >
> > > But many on this list would be much better off
> > > immediately selling their homes either to the
> high
> > > bidder in a 5-Day Sale, or to their banks if the
> > > bank will not accept the current value of the
> home.
> > >
> > > Bill Effros
> > > Author
> > >
> > > PS -- Is it principal or principle...the
> principal
> > > is your pal...??
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jo Ann Kelty wrote:
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > I would agree if the homeowner is trying to
> > > negotiate with the banks directly.. because they
> do
> > > not know all the laws involved that can be used.
>  We
> > > nornally get the Modification for a period of 5
> > > years .. That give the homeowner the opportunity
> to
> > > get out from under any financial dificulties
> that
> > > they may be in at this time and if we are lucky
> the
> > > market may ( or may not ) go up in value.... but
> it
> > > will give them some breathing room ..
> > >
> > > If they negotiate with a bank ... the bank will
> > > normally only give them a 6 month reprive... and
> > > almost 50% will again be behind in thier
> payments

=== message truncated ===>
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>
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>




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-----Inline Message Follows-----

Let's try putting our location after our names.

The fact that Jo Ann and Naji are in Florida is significant -- things
are happening a year earlier there than in some other places.

If they are reducing principal in Florida, they will start doing it
elsewhere as well.

Bill Effros
Greenwich, Ct.



Jo Ann Kelty wrote: 
Conrad 
 
You are correct regarding the principle... however here in
Florida I am seeing the increase in the reduction of principle... last
week we had a client that the negotiators were able to reduce the
principle from apx 300k to 150k  and we are seeing more and more of
this happening here.. but  it is case by case and there are no
guarentees..
 
Jo Ann


2009/3/16 <lbicon at aol.com>

Steven,

You should call your lender and give them a reason that you are
"struggling" to make your payments. I have had about six clients call
their lenders and get either "steamlined" refionances or loan payment
mods. If you are looking for a significant reduction in your principle
it isn't out there yet.

Conrad Kuiken, Loan Officer,short sale negociator,realtor,investor 



-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Herbert <sterbert at yahoo.com>
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Sent: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 2:17 pm
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan


Bill suggests I stop making payments.

Would THAT speed the process along? Or am I just
asking for trouble since I could be making them (it
just doesn't make sense to, according to Bill)?

Steven 
Washington HomeOwner


--- Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Steven
> 
> In most cases the bank will not negotiate with you
> untill you have missed
> payments.. but you can get a loan modification it
> will just take longer
> since those that are behind are normally the first
> to be considered.
> 
> If you want to go down that path you may want to
> start your process soon.
> 
> Jo Ann
> 
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Steven Herbert
> <sterbert at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> > I've toyed with the idea of walking away (or
> > threatening to at least). I bought at $257K and
> owe
> > $248K after 3.5 yrs. I'm not sure if I'm
> underwater or
> > not (probably even w/sealevel).
> >
> > I haven't missed payments, I'm not struggling to
> make
> > them. But we're a military family and would be
> moving
> > this October. Renting won't pay near the $1800
> > mortgage and I'll be losing my income when I move.
> > Would a bank care about my situation considering
> > October is a ways off?
> >
> > Steven
> >
> >
> > --- "O'Day, Lili" <lili at lilioday.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I just want to say that one other possibility
> for
> > > those who think they may have an unfair bank
> loan is
> > > to have a forensic loan audit done. (google it!)
> > > One of my clients just had it done on 3 of her
> > > Washington Mutual loans . Every one of them had
> > > serious violations, which would have meant she
> would
> > > have paid  hundred of thousands of dollars too
> much
> > > to the bank..... (all considered predatory
> loans)
> > > Now the bank is on the hot seat,   She's been
> > > offered some really sweet terms on one of the
> loans.
> > > already.  ..2.9% +   .  An audit that shows
> serious
> > > violations puts the borrower in a position to
> > > negotiate from a position of strength.
> > >
> > > Lili O'Day
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
>
5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Blili>=lilioday.com@
> > mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Naji
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:03 PM
> > > To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Definitions
> > > Principal
> > > adjective
> > > [PicExportError]             first or highest in
> > > rank, importance, value, etc.; chief; foremost.
> > > noun
> > > [PicExportError]             a chief or head of
> an
> > > organization
> > > [PicExportError]             something of
> primary
> > > importance
> > > [PicExportError]             Law. a person who
> > > authorizes another (an agent) to represent him
> or
> > > her
> > > [PicExportError]             Finance. a capital
> sum,
> > > the main amount of a loan or investment (as
> > > distinguished from interest or profit)
> > > Principle noun
> > > [PicExportError]             a fundamental
> > > assumption. The principles of physics dictate
> that
> > > you cannot travel faster than the speed of
> light.
> > > [PicExportError]             a generally
> acceptable
> >  > rule of action or behaviour. moral principles
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
>
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Bnkhouri>=
> > cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Bill Effros
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:54 PM
> > > To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Jo Ann,
> > >
> > > Naji's point, and my point is that many homes in
> > > many places are not worth the current value of
> the
> > > principal and probably will never ever be worth
> the
> > > value of the principal.
> > >
> > > A case in point would be a retirement community
> in
> > > Fort Meyers, Fla. where 64 of the 65 homes have
> been
> > > foreclosed.  That 65th home owner should get out
> of
> > > there as quickly as possible, and before paying
> any
> > > more money on the mortgage.  None of those homes
> > > will ever be lived in again.
> > >
> > > While this may seem like an extreme example,
> there
> > > are, at the least, 100,000s of thousands of
> homes
> > > that fall into this category at this time.  100%
> of
> > > their current value will be lost -- the only
> > > question is who will take the hit..  Let the
> banks
> > > and the taxpayers take the rest of the hit.  The
> > > home buyer has been hurt enough already, don't
> make
> > > it worse.
> > >
> > > This is not to say payment reduction may not be
> good
> > > for some people.
> > >
> > > But many on this list would be much better off
> > > immediately selling their homes either to the
> high
> > > bidder in a 5-Day Sale, or to their banks if the
> > > bank will not accept the current value of the
> home.
> > >
> > > Bill Effros
> > > Author
> > >
> > > PS -- Is it principal or principle....the
> principal
> > > is your pal...??
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jo Ann Kelty wrote:
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > I would agree if the homeowner is trying to
> > > negotiate with the banks directly.. because they
> do
> > > not know all the laws involved that can be used.
>  We
> > > nornally get the Modification for a period of 5
> > > years .. That give the homeowner the opportunity
> to
> > > get out from under any financial dificulties
> that
> > > they may be in at this time and if we are lucky
> the
> > > market may ( or may not ) go up in value.... but
> it
> > > will give them some breathing room ..
> > >
> > > If they negotiate with a bank ... the bank will
> > > normally only give them a 6 month reprive... and
> > > almost 50% will again be behind in thier
> payments 
=== message truncated ===>
_______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> 



      
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________________________________
Job Hunting? Start with the companies that posted job openings this
week. 
_______________________________________________
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-----Inline Message Follows-----


I?m beyond thankful to be in the Arlington-Fort Worth area of
Texas where two local cities actually had sales tax gains last month, home
sales have held, if slipped a tiny bit and we have the added bonus of being on
the very early years of the Barnett Shale one of the richest natural gas reserves
in country and nearly every home owner will get bonus and royalties from it in
the coming years.  I see construction going on around me including the new
Dallas Cowboys $1.1 billion stadium.  Housing stock is plentiful here though
fortunately in our HOA on a little lake, of the 132 homes in our HOA, four are
for sale and none foreclosed on.  That rate for sake is maybe 1-2 houses more
than usual for a 6-month period.  I do have plenty of friends out of work
though and working in corporate retail, I know mine may only be a bad quarter
away.
 
Keeping my fingers crossed that our fortunes remain and the rest
of the country finds this same level some time soon.  It will be our turn
another day for some other reason, but if you would like to move and can handle
100-degree days in August and no ocean, this is a good area to be in.
 
From:5-dayforum-bounces+tomwilson64=yahoo.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+tomwilson64=yahoo.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 8:15 AM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: [5-DayForum] Please Indicate Your Location
 
Let's try putting our location after our names.

The fact that Jo Ann and Naji are in Florida is significant -- things are
happening a year earlier there than in some other places.

If they are reducing principal in Florida, they will start doing it elsewhere
as well.

Bill Effros
Greenwich, Ct.



Jo Ann Kelty wrote: 
Conrad 
 
You are correct regarding the principle... however here in
Florida I am seeing the increase in the reduction of principle... last week we
had a client that the negotiators were able to reduce the principle from apx
300k to 150k  and we are seeing more and more of this happening here..
but  it is case by case and there are no guarentees..
 
Jo Ann
2009/3/16 <lbicon at aol.com>
Steven,

You should call your lender and give them a reason that you are
"struggling" to make your payments. I have had about six clients call
their lenders and get either "steamlined" refionances or loan payment
mods. If you are looking for a significant reduction in your principle it isn't
out there yet.

Conrad Kuiken, Loan Officer,short sale negociator,realtor,investor 



-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Herbert <sterbert at yahoo.com>
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Sent: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 2:17 pm
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
  
Bill suggests I stop making payments.
  
Would THAT speed the process along? Or am I just
asking for trouble since I could be making them (it
just doesn't make sense to, according to Bill)?
  
Steven 
Washington HomeOwner
  
  
--- Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com> wrote:
  
> Hi Steven
> 
> In most cases the bank will not negotiate with you
> untill you have missed
> payments.. but you can get a loan modification it
> will just take longer
> since those that are behind are normally the first
> to be considered.
> 
> If you want to go down that path you may want to
> start your process soon.
> 
> Jo Ann
> 
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Steven Herbert
> <sterbert at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> > I've toyed with the idea of walking away (or
> > threatening to at least). I bought at $257K and
> owe
> > $248K after 3.5 yrs. I'm not sure if I'm
> underwater or
> > not (probably even w/sealevel).
> >
> > I haven't missed payments, I'm not struggling to
> make
> > them. But we're a military family and would be
> moving
> > this October. Renting won't pay near the $1800
> > mortgage and I'll be losing my income when I move.
> > Would a bank care about my situation considering
> > October is a ways off?
> >
> > Steven
> >
> >
> > --- "O'Day, Lili" <lili at lilioday.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I just want to say that one other possibility
> for
> > > those who think they may have an unfair bank
> loan is
> > > to have a forensic loan audit done. (google it!)
> > > One of my clients just had it done on 3 of her
> > > Washington Mutual loans . Every one of them had
> > > serious violations, which would have meant she
> would
> > > have paid  hundred of thousands of dollars too
> much
> > > to the bank..... (all considered predatory
> loans)
> > > Now the bank is on the hot seat,   She's been
> > > offered some really sweet
 terms on one of the
> loans.
> > > already.  ..2.9% +   .  An audit that shows
> serious
> > > violations puts the borrower in a position to
> > > negotiate from a position of strength.
> > >
> > > Lili O'Day
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
>  
5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Blili>=lilioday.com@
> > mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Naji
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:03 PM
> > > To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Definitions
> > > Principal
> > > adjective
> > > [PicExportError]             first or highest in
> > > rank, importance, value, etc.; chief; foremost.
> > > noun
> > > [PicExportError]             a chief or head of
>
 an
> > > organization
> > > [PicExportError]             something of
> primary
> > > importance
> > > [PicExportError]             Law. a person who
> > > authorizes another (an agent) to represent him
> or
> > > her
> > > [PicExportError]             Finance. a capital
> sum,
> > > the main amount of a loan or investment (as
> > > distinguished from interest or profit)
> > > Principle noun
> > > [PicExportError]             a fundamental
> > > assumption. The principles of physics dictate
> that
> > > you cannot travel faster than the speed of
> light.
> > > [PicExportError]             a generally
> acceptable
> >  > rule of action or behaviour. moral principles
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > >
 From:
> > >
> >
>  
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Bnkhouri>=
> > cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Bill Effros
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:54 PM
> > > To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Jo Ann,
> > >
> > > Naji's point, and my point is that many homes in
> > > many places are not worth the current value of
> the
> > > principal and probably will never ever be worth
> the
> > > value of the principal.
> > >
> > > A case in point would be a retirement community
> in
> > > Fort Meyers, Fla. where 64 of the 65 homes have
> been
> > > foreclosed.  That 65th home owner should get out
> of
> > > there as quickly as possible, and before paying
> any
> > >
 more money on the mortgage.  None of those homes
> > > will ever be lived in again.
> > >
> > > While this may seem like an extreme example,
> there
> > > are, at the least, 100,000s of thousands of
> homes
> > > that fall into this category at this time.  100%
> of
> > > their current value will be lost -- the only
> > > question is who will take the hit.  Let the
> banks
> > > and the taxpayers take the rest of the
 hit.  The
> > > home buyer has been hurt enough already, don't
> make
> > > it worse.
> > >
> > > This is not to say payment reduction may not be
> good
> > > for some people.
> > >
> > > But many on this list would be much better off
> > > immediately selling their homes either to the
> high
> > > bidder in a 5-Day Sale, or to their banks if the
> > > bank will not accept the
 current value of the
> home.
> > >
> > > Bill Effros
> > > Author
> > >
> > > PS -- Is it principal or principle...the
> principal
> > > is your pal....??
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jo Ann Kelty wrote:
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > I would agree if the homeowner is trying to
> > > negotiate with the banks directly.. because they
> do
> > > not know all the laws involved that can be used.
>  We
> > > nornally get the Modification for a period of 5
> > > years .. That give the homeowner the opportunity
> to
> > > get out from under any financial dificulties
> that
> > > they may be in at this time and if we are lucky
> the
> > > market may ( or may not ) go up in value.... but
> it
> > > will give them some breathing room ..
> > >
> > > If they negotiate with a bank ... the bank will
> > > normally only give them a 6 month reprive... and
> > > almost 50% will again be behind in thier
> payments 
=== message truncated ===>
_______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>  
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> 
  
  
  
      
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________________________________
 
Job Hunting? Start with the companies that posted job openings this week. 

_______________________________________________
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http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum


  

________________________________
 

  
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http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
  

-----Inline Message Follows-----


Hello All - thanks for comments as I was trying to "debrief" my 5 day sale experience.
 
As previously mentioned, I'm an investor who unfortunately got stuck with a house that didn't move on the market since January.  I got into a neighborhood with a lot of other investors who bought REOs and things were going well as recent as December 08.  Similar [cookie cutter 50 year old brick ranchs] homes remodeled similarly were selling for avg $149k.  It "crashed" and very little moved from January onward.
 
I held the 5 day sale 2/28-3/1 and did manage to get the requisite 25 callers, however I could tell from my conversations with bidders that the house would not sell anywhere near where I would have been willing even to "dump" it.  
 
Talked to Realtor who claimed he was able to move similar situation houses within about two weeks so I listed with him.  True to his word, we got it under contract in 15 days.
 
Here's the bottom line comparison - after price and other concessions and higher commissions, I will be $25 - 27k higher (net to me) than what I was able to pull in with 5 Day Sale (within 15 days of the sale, and certainly the market has not improved).  This clearly establishes that either the 5 Day Sale does NOT ensure highest possible price, or I did something wrong when I conducted the sale.  I would still like to understand if I did something wrong.  Perhaps the number of callers should be higher?  Certainly my buyer was out there 15 days ago, but I didn't reach him..  I would have taken his offer at that time and saved another $5k in realtor commissions.  
 
Any thoughts?   
 
Thank you,
Holly 
 


--- On Thu, 3/5/09, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:

From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???
To: "How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days" <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Date: Thursday, March 5, 2009, 10:20 PM


Conrad, Kyle,

Thanks for this discussion among professionals -- it's very helpful to amateurs. 

>From where I sit, it seems that everything varies by region, and all the professionals should be aware that what is true in their location is not necessarily true elsewhere.

There is so much small print, no one has the time to read it all.  And it changes daily.

There are many many places in this country where homes simply can't be sold, and no lender will provide a mortgage because there is virtually no possibility that the buyer, regardless of FICO score, will ever be able to repay it.

I believe that both of you guys are in areas where this phenomenon has not yet fully hit, and maybe it will never hit you -- who's to say.  But where it has hit, the situation is impossible.  There are too many homes and too few jobs.  When the jobs return, they won't be in these places.  No one in their right mind would offer a mortgage to someone who will not be able to either get or hold a job anywhere near that home.

But please keep your comments coming -- everyone learns from them.

Bill Effros
Author



lbicon at aol.com wrote: 
Hey Kyle,
I am a lender. Your loan comment was too broad. Basically you said that you need a 720 score. Simply not true.
The guidelines are now as I have stated. Coventional loans less than 20% down need a 720. Not all conventional loans.

We are trying to advise home sellers here. Are you advising that they make the buyers prove that they have a 720 FICO?
Read your comment again. I am sure that you meant conventional Fannie/Freddie loans . FHA is a whole different story..

Best regards,

Conrad


-----Original Message-----
From: Kyle Cascioli <real.estate.professor at hotmail.com>
To: 5-dayforum at mailman..howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Sent: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 1:03 pm
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???


Hi Conrad:
 
I stand by the comment as that's what banker's are telling us and our clients.
 
I've seen it in the underwriting of loans here in Denver - a market more stable than most. Each loan application must be taken at its own merit..
 
Are you suggesting that it is easier to get a loan today than it was last year or the year before?
 
Do you disagree with the observation that the buyer pool has shrunk considerably and that that is further impacting what qualified buyer s are willing to pay for a property?
 
Best to all, 
 
Kyle Cascioli
www.AuctionBySeller.com 
 
________________________________
 To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 14:11:16 -0500
From: lbicon at aol.com
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???

Hello Kyle,

Sorry but your information about loan qualification is incorrect. If a buyer is putting less than 20 percent down payment, the mortgage insurance company's are requiring a 720 mid FICO score. FHA is still agreat option with as little 3.5% down with much lower FICO requirement.

Regards,

Conrad


-----Original Message-----
From: Kyle Cascioli <real.estate.professor at hotmail.com>
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Sent: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 10:17 am
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???


Hi Holly:
 
I agree with RC and Bill ...
 
Since& nbsp;the October stock market implosion we've seen the qualified buyer pool shrink considerably.  You now need a 720 FICO score to get a loan.  Cash is coveted!
 
Buyer's are only making offers on properties that they believe they can't get hurt on and expecting to see their acquisition property go down in value post-sale.  By how much is anyone's guess, but buyer's are being very conservative and defensive.
 
We are conducting our first builder 5 Day Sale here in Denver this weekend on 4 selected loft units, and you are welcome to come by and observe if you like.
 
www.DenverLoftsAuction.com 
 
Hang in there.
 
Kyle Cascioli
www.AuctionByBuilder.com 
www.AuctionBySeller.com 
www.AuctionByAgent.com 
 
________________________________
 Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 06:54:34 -0800
From: hollymac2 at yahoo.com
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Subject: [5-DayForum] What happened???


Hello - I just conducted my first 5-day sale and it failed miserably.  I was very disappointed and desperate - have to se ll.  I would like to understand what went wrong.
 
I did pull the 25 responses basically off of my newspaper add alone (couldn't figure out how to get Craigs list from continuously deleting my add.....).  And I did NOT include multiple responses from the same phone number, so I did get the 25 unique responses.
 
Still, my traffic was very light, and the only bids offered were from investors (who were out the first round) or people who really believed they could get the property for 50 - 60% of FMV.
 
Please help me debrief.  I have a sen se the technique can work, I just don't know what happened in my case.
 
My property is a fix and flip.  The property is in a nice neighborhood of 50 year old cookie cutter brick ranches that are low tier housing (that is - below median price in the Denver Metro area - Colorado).  The neighborhood is good and desireable (not gang stuff etc) has gotten a lot of investors (like me!) in fixing and flipping.  The week before my sale, an exact model similarly remodeled, sold without consessions for $145,000.  The comps of the exact model, similarly remodeled have sold within days to less than a month for $138,000 - $149,000.  Mine was advertised at $74,500 and as I said I was satisfied I got the needed calls.
 
What happened?
 
Dismayed - and now more desperate than ever...
 
Holly
 
 
  
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-----Inline Message Follows-----


 Hi Ed:
 
You should make the deal "even though it's all cash."
 
If that doesn't happen, you and your agent could explore working through our 5 Day Sale platform.
 
www.AuctionByAgent.com 
 
Good luck!
 
Kyle Cascioli
www.AuctionBySeller.com 
________________________________
 
From: ejurban at hotmail.com
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 13:47:24 -1000
Subject: [5-DayForum] Hawaii downtown condo - currently have realtor

Aloha!
We have had our downtown condo listed with a realtor for the past several months.  It went into escrow once at $380k in Jan, but fell out last month at the end of closing due to seller financing (there was a competing offer of $363k).  The potential buyer had an appraisal in Jan that received the full appraisal amount.
 
We recently had an investor cash offer at $357k and we countered at $363k, but they did not accept or go higher.  My wife wanted to accept their offer, and with the potential loss of sale or lower offer, I am now in the dog house.  They went to relook again today, but do not know if they will reoffer.  My thought is that the condo could get close to $370k.  I would imagine that we would accept if they offered close to the same amount (which seems a little low to me - even though it is cash), but how would we go about a 5-day sale considering we have a realtor?
 
Sorry if this question has been asked.  I wish I had read the book before we listed instead of this past week..  I joined the forum a couple of days ago, but have not gone through past threads.  If there is one that answers this question, could someone pass it on please?
Mahalo,
Ed


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-----Inline Message Follows-----

Holly,

Using real numbers (what did your house cost -- what was the advertised
price -- what was the high bid using the 5-Day Method -- what was the
price you sold for -- how much did the broker get etc.) please refresh
our memory.  

Bill Effros
Author



Holly MacIntyre wrote: 
Hello All - thanks for comments as I was trying to
"debrief" my 5 day sale experience.
 
As previously mentioned, I'm an investor who unfortunately
got stuck with a house that didn't move on the market since January.  I
got into a neighborhood with a lot of other investors who bought REOs
and things were going well as recent as December 08.  Similar [cookie
cutter 50 year old brick ranchs] homes remodeled similarly were selling
for avg $149k.  It "crashed" and very little moved from January onward.
 
I held the 5 day sale 2/28-3/1 and did manage to get the
requisite 25 callers, however I could tell from my conversations with
bidders that the house would not sell anywhere near where I would have
been willing even to "dump" it.  
 
Talked to Realtor who claimed he was able to move similar
situation houses within about two weeks so I listed with him.  True to
his word, we got it under contract in 15 days.
 
Here's the bottom line comparison - after price and other
concessions and higher commissions, I will be $25 - 27k higher
(net to me) than what I was able to pull in with 5 Day Sale (within 15
days of the sale, and certainly the market has not improved).  This
clearly establishes that either the 5 Day Sale does NOT ensure highest
possible price, or I did something wrong when I conducted the sale.  I
would still like to understand if I did something wrong.  Perhaps the
number of callers should be higher?  Certainly my buyer was out there
15 days ago, but I didn't reach him.  I would have taken his offer at
that time and saved another $5k in realtor commissions.  
 
Any thoughts?   
 
Thank you,
Holly 
 


--- On Thu, 3/5/09, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:

From:
Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???
To: "How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days" <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Date: Thursday, March 5, 2009, 10:20 PM


Conrad, Kyle,

Thanks for this discussion among professionals -- it's very helpful to
amateurs. 

>From where I sit, it seems that everything varies by region, and
all the professionals should be aware that what is true in their
location is not necessarily true elsewhere.

There is so much small print, no one has the time to read it all.  And
it changes daily.

There are many many places in this country where homes simply can't be
sold, and no lender will provide a mortgage because there is virtually
no possibility that the buyer, regardless of FICO score, will ever be
able to repay it.

I believe that both of you guys are in areas where this phenomenon has
not yet fully hit, and maybe it will never hit you -- who's to say. 
But where it has hit, the situation is impossible.  There are too many
homes and too few jobs.  When the jobs return, they won't be in these
places.  No one in their right mind would offer a mortgage to someone
who will not be able to either get or hold a job anywhere near that
home.

But please keep your comments coming -- everyone learns from them.

Bill Effros
Author



lbicon at aol.com wrote: 
Hey Kyle,
I am a lender. Your loan comment was too broad. Basically you said that
you need a 720 score. Simply not true.
The guidelines are now as I have stated. Coventional loans less than
20% down need a 720. Not all conventional loans.

We are trying to advise home sellers here. Are you advising that they
make the buyers prove that they have a 720 FICO?
Read your comment again. I am sure that you meant conventional
Fannie/Freddie loans . FHA is a whole different story.

Best regards,

Conrad


-----Original Message-----
From: Kyle Cascioli <real.estate.professor at hotmail.com>
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Sent: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 1:03 pm
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???


Hi
Conrad:
 
I stand by the comment as that's what banker's are telling us and our
clients.
 
I've seen it in the underwriting of loans here in Denver - a market
more stable than most. Each loan application must be taken at its own
merit..
 
Are you suggesting that it is easier to get a loan today than it was
last year or the year before?
 
Do you disagree with the observation that the buyer pool has shrunk
considerably and that that is further impacting what qualified buyer s
are willing to pay for a property?
 
Best to all, 
 
Kyle Cascioli
www.AuctionBySeller.com 
 
________________________________
 To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 14:11:16 -0500
From: lbicon at aol.com
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???

Hello Kyle,

Sorry but your information about loan qualification is incorrect. If a
buyer is putting less than 20 percent down payment, the
mortgage insurance company's are requiring a 720 mid FICO score. FHA is
still agreat option with as little 3.5% down with much lower FICO
requirement.

Regards,

Conrad


-----Original Message-----
From: Kyle Cascioli <real.estate.professor at hotmail.com>
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Sent: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 10:17 am
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???


Hi
Holly:
 
I agree with RC and Bill ...
 
Since& nbsp;the October stock market implosion we've seen the
qualified buyer pool shrink considerably.  You now need a 720 FICO
score to get a loan.  Cash is coveted!
 
Buyer's are only making offers on properties that they believe they
can't get hurt on and expecting to see their acquisition property go
down in value post-sale..  By how much is anyone's guess, but buyer's
are being very conservative and defensive.
 
We are conducting our first builder 5 Day Sale here in Denver this
weekend on 4 selected loft units, and you are welcome to come by and
observe if you like.
 
www.DenverLoftsAuction.com 
 
Hang in there.
 
Kyle Cascioli
www.AuctionByBuilder.com 
www.AuctionBySeller.com 
www.AuctionByAgent.com 
 
________________________________
 Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 06:54:34 -0800
From: hollymac2 at yahoo.com
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Subject: [5-DayForum] What happened???


Hello - I just conducted my first 5-day sale and
it failed miserably.  I was very disappointed and desperate - have to
se ll.  I would like to understand what went wrong.
 
I did pull the 25 responses basically off of my
newspaper add alone (couldn't figure out how to get Craigs list from
continuously deleting my add.....).  And I did NOT include multiple
responses from the same phone number, so I did get the 25 unique
responses.
 
Still, my traffic was very light, and the only
bids offered were from investors (who were out the first round) or
people who really believed they could get the property for 50 - 60% of
FMV.
 
Please help me debrief.  I have a sen se the
technique can work, I just don't know what happened in my case.
 
My property is a fix and flip.  The property is
in a nice neighborhood of 50 year old cookie cutter brick ranches that
are low tier housing (that is - below median price in the Denver Metro
area - Colorado).  The neighborhood is good and desireable (not gang
stuff etc) has gotten a lot of investors (like me!) in fixing and
flipping.  The week before my sale, an exact model similarly remodeled,
sold without consessions for $145,000.  The comps of the exact model,
similarly remodeled have sold within days to less than a month for
$138,000 - $149,000.  Mine was advertised at $74,500 and as I said I
was satisfied I got the needed calls.
 
What happened?
 
Dismayed - and now more desperate than ever...
 
Holly
 
 
  
________________________________
 Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. Check it out. = 
_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mai
ling list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum 


________________________________
Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere
on the web. Get the Radio Toolbar! 
________________________________
 Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Find out more. = 
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From hollymac2 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 22 11:21:14 2009
From: hollymac2 at yahoo.com (Holly MacIntyre)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 08:21:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [5-DayForum] Posting
In-Reply-To: <d22.3b165ca3.36f5256d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <728242.63039.qm@web53603.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hi Henry - This is Holly in Colorado.? I had recently conducted a sale which did not go as I had hoped.? Bill has been good to help me de-brief the experience.? Catch those comments, I think they go far in explaining what can go wrong.
?
In my case, I knew I was not going to take the "high" offer.? Like you, I didn't want to call someone back to say basically "Sorry, I changed my mind..." tho that would have been fair because I repeatedly advised all participants that "bids are NOT binding either on buyer OR seller."?
?
I actually "stopped the agony" by advising my two remaining bidders that an offer had come in [which was $9k above the "high" bid, but still $25k below what I expected the real value to be close to] and they all dropped out without hesitation.? I easily concluded what I had suspected - ?that I really had not reached my true [home] buyer.? I?only connected with the "bottom feeders" who were investors trying to acquire property at 70% - the numbers worked out perfectly on both investors - we all valued the property about the same and their bids were about spot on at 70%.
?
I am guessing that Bill would say I "cheated," and did not conduct the bidding and award process properly.? However, I decided it was better to have all participants conclude that they chose to drop out of bidding.?
?
I have not given up on the 5 Day Sale as a viable home sale method and want to try and use it again.
?
Regards,
Holly
?


--- On Fri, 3/20/09, HFraleyjr at aol.com <HFraleyjr at aol.com> wrote:

From: HFraleyjr at aol.com <HFraleyjr at aol.com>
Subject: [5-DayForum] Posting
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Date: Friday, March 20, 2009, 4:59 PM



Friends - Has anyone experienced conducting a 5-day sale and did not receive a fair bid for your home? Especially after advertising that it would be sold to the highest bidder on Sunday Night?
?
How did you explain your decision to decline the highest bid after you had advertised that you would sell your home to the highest bidder?
?
Henry Fraley


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From bill at effros.com  Sun Mar 22 13:51:08 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 13:51:08 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Pricing
In-Reply-To: <37770.19805.qm@web111311.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.4.1237651203.22196.5-dayforum@mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
	<37770.19805.qm@web111311.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49C67A8C.9080107@effros.com>

Glenda,

Sunday afternoon is where the action is in NYC.

Get them to put down a penny bid with their phone number if they have 
the slightest interest in how this going to turn out.

That way, they don't disclose their interest, but stay in the game.

Why would they not?

Don't try to sort them out -- everybody is conning everybody else.  You 
can't know who's real until you have somebody's money in your hand.

And you can tell everybody that!  You simply don't know anybody from 
Adam -- but you're going to play fair, and you're going to offer the 
coop to the high bidder.

I'm going out this afternoon, I'll try to get back to you between the 
time you close the inspection and you begin the Round Robin.

You seem to understand the temptation to weasel and the reason for not 
doing so.

Stick to it.  Let the whole thing play out.  I know the NYC market, and 
you are right on track in every way.  I have no idea what a coop that 
size is currently worth in Manhattan -- but I will know if you stick to 
your guns and let the cards fall where they may.

In many ways your coop board protects you in 5-Day Sales -- if they 
don't like your high bidder, for whatever reason, the sale won't go 
through.  And everybody in the game knows it.

So play straight -- see where things fall -- even after you have offered 
your home to the high bidder there are still many many hoops to jump 
through, and a lot can happen in the intervening ... how long will it be?

If you do this you will really know the best price you can get for that 
coop at this time.  And if you think you will do better 6 months from 
now, and you think it pays to wait, you will be able to do so.

Bill Effros
Author

V Glenda wrote:
> Hi!  All -
> An update on our 5 day sale.  We had 33 people show up yesterday (not 
> including their significant others).  The first couple strolled in 
> just before 10:30...and it got busier towards the afternoon.  Two put 
> down their names on the bid sheet, but not their bids, one wrote it on 
> the business card...for the starting bid price of $269,500 (I 
> transferred on the bid sheet the end of the day so I can keep track or 
> should I not?), one said will call me back.  One wrote $275k and one 
> couple called me after leaving the apartment and bid $250K.  The rest 
> looked very interested so much so that they've read through at the 
> building financials (which I made a copy available along with the coop 
> house rules in hopes that it would make it easier for them to bid on 
> the place...which is probably a mistake because they did not leave a 
> bid though claim they will call).  Some took measurements (2).  The 
> rest promised to call me before 8pm Sunday night.  Some promised to 
> come back with their significant others.  So we shall see...
>
> When one would try to get at what my magic number is, I just said I 
> don't know what the magic number is until I have all the bids Sunday 
> night..  I said the apartment will be sold to the highest qualified 
> bidder Sunday night. period....as Bill said.  When they ask why the 
> price is so low, I said I don't want to leave it up to a broker to 
> tell me what my apartment is worth to the buyers and let the buyers 
> decide what it is worth to them to get my apartment.  Given the 
> market, who can really decide better than the buyers...?  We all know 
> it is priced WAY below the market price (2002 price), and as Bill 
> said, I am hoping they will go up to the fair market value...When they 
> ask why we are selling, we said we want to move because we have two 
> kids in a 700 sq ft apartment...we need more room (no kidding), and we 
> are currently in contract with a house in New Jersey (and we are 
> though we don't need to sell this to get that..thank God!).  
>
> For today's open house, I think I need to be more persuasive about 
> leaving a bid on the sheet...I am thinking of putting a blank piece of 
> paper to encourage those who would like to put the bid privately...I 
> think I was not mentally prepared to usher them to putting a bid down 
> on the sheet.  But that has to change if i am to sell to the highest 
> bidder tonight....  
>
> A word on advertising most of  our attendees got it through the NYT 
> and Craig's list.  Two brokers showed up (one uninvited) one who 
> promised to bring in buyers but came in empty handed....and walked 
> away with Bill's 5 day sale idea....my husband did not know she's a 
> broker and openly spoke with her about the sale processs...ooohh they 
> are soo savvvy!
>
> Thanks for the words of encouragement, Bill.  I will not be a weasel, 
> I will not be a weasel, I will not be a weasel......:))) We'll sell 
> tonight, we'll sell tonight, we'll sell tonight!
>
> Best,
> Glenda
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* "5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com" 
> <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
> *To:* 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 21, 2009 12:00:03 PM
> *Subject:* 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 33
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: What happened??? (Wayne Giese)
>   2. Pricing (V Glenda)
>   3.  Ads in Multiple news papers (Aamir Syed)
>   4. Posting (HFraleyjr at aol.com <mailto:HFraleyjr at aol.com>)
>   5.  What happened??? (Sean Folkson)
>   6. Re: What happened??? (Bill Effros)
>   7. Re: Pricing (Bill Effros)
>   8. searching the Forum archives (Eric & Cheryl Voth)
>   9. Re: searching the Forum archives (Bill Effros)
>
>
> -----Inline Message Follows-----
>
> Round Two of five day sale next weekend.
>
> I am an investor in the Cape Coral Florida
> market. Houses here are selling for 50% of
> building cost.
>
> I am part of a large group that buy and hold long
>  term. We just started testing the bottom of the market
> for the first time in two years.
>
> After acquiring a hand few and we wonder where the
> market top.
>
> Remembering the book I ready some years
> back we tried a 5 day sale. The response was great
> we just had the wrong house for 90% of the buyers.
> We are trying the sale again with the right house.
>
> I read about another investor in the forum that does
> something similar. And was wondering their methods.
>
> I think the sale will be great due to the fact that we
> are providing the right house.
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 5:53 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com 
> <mailto:bill at effros.com>> wrote:
>
>     Yes, Sean,
>
>     That's EXACTLY what I'm saying.
>
>     I know it's counter-intuitive, but I've been watching this for 20
>     years,
>     and I originally advocated a starting price closer to the perceived
>     market price, while using much deeper discounts to the starting price
>     whenever I was personally involved in a sale.  My deep discounted
>     starting prices always did better.
>
>     The deeper the initial discount, the better you will do -- however the
>     amount of work goes up exponentially as well, and there is a point of
>     diminishing returns.
>
>     50% dropped down to the next lowest magic number really works.
>
>     Yes, yes, yes -- of course you attract a lot of people who cannot
>     afford
>     the real price.  But you will also get 3 real ones, and they
>     really will
>     bid the property up to current fair market value -- and it really does
>     work every single time ... provided that you follow through on your
>     offer, and make clear throughout the inspection and round robin
>     that the
>     high bidder will be offered the house.
>
>     Start weaseling, and all bets are off.
>
>     Holly made some comment about "knowing they wanted the house for less
>     than 100K" and "ending the agony...".  At what point do you
>     suppose she
>     told the bidders that they weren't going to get the house unless
>     she got
>     a price she was happy with...which, at that time, was around $150,000
>     because someone down the street had recently received $145?
>
>     If you increase the starting price on your next home you will hurt the
>     final selling price -- especially given that you already did not
>     follow
>     through on what turned out to be a fair price, and people will
>     remember.
>
>     Bill Effros
>     Author
>
>
>
>
>
>
>     Sean Folkson wrote:
>     > Bill,
>     >
>     > I don't quite understand.....Holly got a high offer of $93K with her
>     > $74K advertised price.  With a realtor, she had a buyer pay
>     $125-$130K.
>     >
>     > I'm pretty sure you're stating in your reply that if her ad was for
>     > $49,500 rather than $74,500 she would have received MORE than the
>     > $93K she was offered in her 5-Day sale?   And, furthermore, she
>     would
>     > have gotten a buyer to pay the same range of $125K-$130K just by
>     > dropping the advertised price down $25K?  that is from 60% of the
>     > ultimate "market value" (as determined by the final sale
>     transaction)
>     > down to 40%?
>     >
>     > Is that what you're saying?
>     >
>     > sean
>     >
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > 5-DayForum mailing list
>     > 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>     <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>     >
>     http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>     >
>     >
>     _______________________________________________
>     5-DayForum mailing list
>     5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>     <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>     http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Wayne Giese
> (813) 482-5688
> wayne at capecoralinvestmentproperties.com 
> <mailto:wayne at capecoralinvestmentproperties.com>
>
>
> -----Inline Message Follows-----
>
> Hi!  Manhattan neighbor (61st and 2nd)....you did not leave your name.  
>
> Anyway, I'm on 49th and 2nd...how long ago did you run your 5 day 
> sale?  Tomorrow is our open house and I did get more than 25 inquiries 
> starting from Wednesday to Friday, not counting the 100+ inquries we 
> had gotten since advertising 3 weeks earlier.   We also managed to get 
> publicity in a couple of local papers (with the wrong information on 
> it...thanks to a Bellmarc broker, Merrill Flaum, who listed our 
> apartment (full information and all) on their website, Easy Street, 
> without our consent, after just a conversation with me over the phone 
> where he was inquiring if he could bring in "two very interested and 
> qualified clients."  Thus far I have two people show up at my door and 
> a coop Board member wanted to make sure I have not lost my mind trying 
> to sell it for that amount after they saw it on Metro.  The Real Deal 
> wrote an article naming our place as the "cheapest that  came in the 
> market this week and Bellmarc as the listing agent.  I have them 
> correct it since then but I gave up running after the media for 
> correction after I found out it was on the Metro and I continued to 
> get calls from Bellmarc agents...it has been a stressful week, but I 
> am glad to get it finally done this weekend. The apartment looks 
> great, my husband and I are joking about walling off the living room 
> to make extra room for the kids and scrapping this whole 5 day sale 
> idea.  
>  I do have a couple of seemingly very interested buyers, though I 
> don't know if we can get them up to a price level we can live with..., 
> but we are keeping an open mind about the pricing... I will have to 
> see how all the unsolicited publicity will impact this sale.  I am 
> very curious to know what your experience had been like...?  How big 
> is your apartment?  Why are you selling?
>
> Best,
> Glenda
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* "5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com" 
> <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
> *To:* 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> *Sent:* Friday, March 20, 2009 12:00:12 PM
> *Subject:* 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 32
>
> Send 5-DayForum mailing list submissions to
>     5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> <mailto:5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>     
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>     5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> <mailto:5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>     5-dayforum-owner at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> <mailto:5-dayforum-owner at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of 5-DayForum digest..."
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1.  What happened??? (Sean Folkson)
>   2.  Pricing (Sean Folkson)
>   3. Re: What happened??? (Bill Effros)
>
>
> -----Inline Message Follows-----
>
> Bill,
>
> I don't quite understand.....Holly got a high offer of $93K with her 
> $74K advertised price.  With a realtor, she had a buyer pay $125-$130K.
>
> I'm pretty sure you're stating in your reply that if her ad was for 
> $49,500 rather than $74,500 she would have received MORE than the $93K 
> she was offered in her 5-Day sale?  And, furthermore, she would have 
> gotten a buyer to pay the same range of $125K-$130K just by dropping 
> the advertised price down $25K?  that is from 60% of the ultimate 
> "market value" (as determined by the final sale transaction) down to 40%?
>
> Is that what you're saying?
>
> sean
>
>
>
>
> -----Inline Message Follows-----
>
> Hi Glenda,
>
> I hadn't asked on the phone what people could afford...only discovered 
> after the showing that perhaps we hadn't found the right crowd.
>
> I empathize with you.  Well, you can always call it off.  Or, go ahead 
> with the showing and try to network into a deal?
>
> I live in Manhattan as well...62nd & 1st.  Where is your place?
>
>
>
>
> -----Inline Message Follows-----
>
> Yes, Sean,
>
> That's EXACTLY what I'm saying.
>
> I know it's counter-intuitive, but I've been watching this for 20 
> years, and I originally advocated a starting price closer to the 
> perceived market price, while using much deeper discounts to the 
> starting price whenever I was personally involved in a sale.  My deep 
> discounted starting prices always did better.
>
> The deeper the initial discount, the better you will do -- however the 
> amount of work goes up exponentially as well, and there is a point of 
> diminishing returns.
>
> 50% dropped down to the next lowest magic number really works.
> Yes, yes, yes -- of course you attract a lot of people who cannot 
> afford the real price.  But you will also get 3 real ones, and they 
> really will bid the property up to current fair market value -- and it 
> really does work every single time ... provided that you follow 
> through on your offer, and make clear throughout the inspection and 
> round robin that the high bidder will be offered the house.
>
> Start weaseling, and all bets are off.
>
> Holly made some comment about "knowing they wanted the house for less 
> than 100K" and "ending the agony...".  At what point do you suppose 
> she told the bidders that they weren't going to get the house unless 
> she got a price she was happy with...which, at that time, was around 
> $150,000 because someone down the street had recently received $145?
>
> If you increase the starting price on your next home you will hurt the 
> final selling price -- especially given that you already did not 
> follow through on what turned out to be a fair price, and people will 
> remember.
>
> Bill Effros
> Author
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sean Folkson wrote:
> > Bill,
> >
> > I don't quite understand....Holly got a high offer of $93K with her 
> $74K advertised price.  With a realtor, she had a buyer pay $125-$130K.
> >
> > I'm pretty sure you're stating in your reply that if her ad was for 
> $49,500 rather than $74,500 she would have received MORE than the $93K 
> she was offered in her 5-Day sale?  And, furthermore, she would have 
> gotten a buyer to pay the same range of $125K-$130K just by dropping 
> the advertised price down $25K?  that is from 60% of the ultimate 
> "market value" (as determined by the final sale transaction) down to 40%?
> >
> > Is that what you're saying?
> >
> > sean
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > 5-DayForum mailing list
> > 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
> > 
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> >
> > 
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days..com>
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
>
>
> -----Inline Message Follows-----
>
> I opted to go with just the Rockland Journal news (print and online), 
> I'm at Day 2 of the sale, and I'm regretting not going with the 
> NYtimes. So far I've only received 2 calls from Real Estate agents, 
> and 5 from "potential" buyers. If we try this method again (and I hope 
> we do), I will definitely post in both the journal news, and NYtimes.
>
> Despite the low response rate, my mother (the actual owner of the 
> house) still wants to run the open house. I've explained to her the 
> rule of 25.
>
> Apart from the news papers, I also placed flyers in high traffic 
> areas,and posted online on Craigslist, but that has not generated any 
> response.
>
> Thank you all for your input.
>
> -- 
> -Aamir
>
>
> -----Inline Message Follows-----
>
> Friends - Has anyone experienced conducting a 5-day sale and did not 
> receive a fair bid for your home? Especially after advertising that it 
> would be sold to the highest bidder on Sunday Night?
>  
> How did you explain your decision to decline the highest bid after you 
> had advertised that you would sell your home to the highest bidder?
>  
> Henry Fraley
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or less 
> <http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001>.
>
> -----Inline Message Follows-----
>
> Bill,
>
> just to clarify, we were truly and honestly planning on offering the 
> house to the high bidder, and we did.  We told her we'd need $345K and 
> we'd do it in a heartbeat.  She simply couldn't afford it.  we went 
> down to the next 2 highest and they also told us they couldn't afford it.
>
> Again, we did EVERYTHING as described in the book.  I didn't want 
> anything to look back on in doubt.
>
> We had 3 real buyers none of whom could afford to pay "Market Value" 
> which is determined by what our buyer ultimately paid 10 weeks later.
>
> Maybe the problem is that we had a conservative view of what that unit 
> would sell for.  If we had a "pie in the sky" idea of market value, 
> like if we were hoping for $500K, and we listed at $249,500, we'd have 
> had more luck?  But with our conservative expectation for the sale 
> price, when we did the 50% and rounded down, we got too low.
>
> I understand your logic, but seems to me that you can advertise too 
> low, and maybe you don't think you can, and maybe that's all we really 
> disagree on.....Let's use the example where you're saying that $49,500 
> would have been better than $74,500.  Would you extend that to say 
> that $24,500 would have been EVEN better, albeit maybe 10 times more work?
>
>
>
>
> -----Inline Message Follows-----
>
> Sean,
>
> "Market Value" is what you got, not what someone else paid.
>
> You told your buyer you "need $345K" -- But that was not true.  You 
> took very close to what that buyer bid.
>
> You started at $174,500, which is not the magic number for a $345,000 
> home -- Your magic number should have been $149,500, which undoubtedly 
> would have attracted more people who could not afford your home, but 
> also would have attracted more of the real buyers as well -- driving 
> your home above the market value you ultimately received 10 weeks later.
>
> No matter how low you go, you will never get substantially more than 
> the current market price.  I have made mistakes of starting too low 
> from time to time, and gotten more than 500 responses to a single 8 
> line classified ad.  To say it was a lot of work to sort them all out 
> would be an understatement, and I had to hire people to control the crowd.
>
> So the too low starting price was counterproductive in terms of the 
> cost of running the 5-Day Sale, but got exactly the same selling price 
> as sales that drew 50-100 responses.
>
> Some day when you have the time, stroll over to a Christie's or 
> Sotheby's auction when they are auctioning off a multi-million dollar 
> painting.  Do you really think all the people in the audience can 
> afford the painting?  Is the starting bid greater or less than 50% of 
> the selling price?  Read their rules -- does the seller pay a 
> commission even if the finally bid price does not meet the "Reserve" 
> price?  Do you think the seller gets 100% of the bid price?  Does the 
> auctioneer, during the auction, question the ability of any bidder to 
> pay the bid price?  Is the estimated price in their catalog often 
> wildly off the high bid price?
>
> Why do you think they run their auctions that way?
> Glenda is in the middle of her 5-Day Sale right now.  She started low 
> enough to make quite a kerfluffle -- and that's the whole point!  Why 
> don't you go down to see how she's doing.  Everyone in her building is 
> down there, they've told their friends some idiot is selling her 
> apartment too cheap, and they should buy it, the neighborhood is 
> abuzz, and, if she doesn't blow it by weaseling, she will sell that 
> apartment for the most anyone could possibly get on this weekend.
>
> I'm sure she could use your help explaining the system.
>
> Bill Effros
> Author
>
> Sean Folkson wrote:
> > Bill,
> >
> > just to clarify, we were truly and honestly planning on offering the 
> house to the high bidder, and we did.  We told her we'd need $345K and 
> we'd do it in a heartbeat.  She simply couldn't afford it.  we went 
> down to the next 2 highest and they also told us they couldn't afford it.
> >
> > Again, we did EVERYTHING as described in the book.  I didn't want 
> anything to look back on in doubt.
> >
> > We had 3 real buyers none of whom could afford to pay "Market Value" 
> which is determined by what our buyer ultimately paid 10 weeks later.
> >
> > Maybe the problem is that we had a conservative view of what that 
> unit would sell for.  If we had a "pie in the sky" idea of market 
> value, like if we were hoping for $500K, and we listed at $249,500, 
> we'd have had more luck?  But with our conservative expectation for 
> the sale price, when we did the 50% and rounded down, we got too low.
> >
> > I understand your logic, but seems to me that you can advertise too 
> low, and maybe you don't think you can, and maybe that's all we really 
> disagree on.....Let's use the example where you're saying that $49,500 
> would have been better than $74,500.  Would you extend that to say 
> that $24,500 would have been EVEN better, albeit maybe 10 times more work?
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > 5-DayForum mailing list
> > 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
> > 
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> >
> > 
>
>
>
> -----Inline Message Follows-----
>
> Glenda,
>
> If you play it straight, you will sell for the most anyone can get for 
> your coop this weekend.
>
> DON'T WEASEL!!!!
>
> Tell them all you're going to sell the co-op to the high bidder 
> tomorrow night.  Period.
>
> If they say "What if...?  What if...?"  You just say, over and over, 
> that you're going to sell the co-op to the high bidder tomorrow night, 
> and if they want it, they've got to get their name on the bidding 
> sheet, and the high bidder on the bidding sheet gets the first call.  
> You don't know if anybody has the money when push comes to shove, but 
> you will learn that first thing Monday morning--for right now, if they 
> want your Co-op, they've got to get their name, and any price, even a 
> penny, on your bidding sheet.
>
> If they don't trust you, they shouldn't bid.
>
> Even with all these people, you're not going to get MORE than your 
> co-op is currently worth, but you will wind up at the high end of the 
> current market value.
>
> Bill Effros
> Author
>
> V Glenda wrote:
>> Hi!  Manhattan neighbor (61st and 2nd)....you did not leave your name.  
>>
>> Anyway, I'm on 49th and 2nd...how long ago did you run your 5 day 
>> sale?  Tomorrow is our open house and I did get more than 25 
>> inquiries starting from Wednesday to Friday, not counting the 100+ 
>> inquries we had gotten since advertising 3 weeks earlier.   We also 
>> managed to get publicity in a couple of local papers (with the wrong 
>> information on it...thanks to a Bellmarc broker, Merrill Flaum, who 
>> listed our apartment (full information and all) on their website, 
>> Easy Street, without our consent, after just a conversation with me 
>> over the phone where he was inquiring if he could bring in "two very 
>> interested and qualified clients."  Thus far I have two people show 
>> up at my door and a coop Board member wanted to make sure I have not 
>> lost my mind trying to sell it for that amount after they saw it on 
>> Metro.  The Real Deal wrote an article naming our place as the 
>> "cheapest that  came in the market this week and Bellmarc as the 
>> listing agent.  I have them correct it since then but I gave up 
>> running after the media for correction after I found out it was on 
>> the Metro and I continued to get calls from Bellmarc agents...it has 
>> been a stressful week, but I am glad to get it finally done this 
>> weekend. The apartment looks great, my husband and I are joking about 
>> walling off the living room to make extra room for the kids and 
>> scrapping this whole 5 day sale idea.  
>>  I do have a couple of seemingly very interested buyers, though I 
>> don't know if we can get them up to a price level we can live 
>> with..., but we are keeping an open mind about the pricing... I will 
>> have to see how all the unsolicited publicity will impact this sale. 
>>  I am very curious to know what your experience had been like...? 
>>  How big is your apartment?  Why are you selling?
>>
>> Best,
>> Glenda
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* "5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com" 
>> <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>> *To:* 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>> *Sent:* Friday, March 20, 2009 12:00:12 PM
>> *Subject:* 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 32
>>
>> Send 5-DayForum mailing list submissions to
>>     5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
>> <mailto:5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>     
>> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>     5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
>> <mailto:5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>     5-dayforum-owner at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
>> <mailto:5-dayforum-owner at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of 5-DayForum digest..."
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>   1.  What happened??? (Sean Folkson)
>>   2.  Pricing (Sean Folkson)
>>   3. Re: What happened??? (Bill Effros)
>>
>>
>> -----Inline Message Follows-----
>>
>> Bill,
>>
>> I don't quite understand....Holly got a high offer of $93K with her 
>> $74K advertised price.  With a realtor, she had a buyer pay $125-$130K.
>>
>> I'm pretty sure you're stating in your reply that if her ad was for 
>> $49,500 rather than $74,500 she would have received MORE than the 
>> $93K she was offered in her 5-Day sale?  And, furthermore, she would 
>> have gotten a buyer to pay the same range of $125K-$130K just by 
>> dropping the advertised price down $25K?  that is from 60% of the 
>> ultimate "market value" (as determined by the final sale transaction) 
>> down to 40%?
>>
>> Is that what you're saying?
>>
>> sean
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Inline Message Follows-----
>>
>> Hi Glenda,
>>
>> I hadn't asked on the phone what people could afford....only 
>> discovered after the showing that perhaps we hadn't found the right 
>> crowd.
>>
>> I empathize with you.  Well, you can always call it off.  Or, go 
>> ahead with the showing and try to network into a deal?
>>
>> I live in Manhattan as well...62nd & 1st.  Where is your place?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Inline Message Follows-----
>>
>> Yes, Sean,
>>
>> That's EXACTLY what I'm saying.
>>
>> I know it's counter-intuitive, but I've been watching this for 20 
>> years, and I originally advocated a starting price closer to the 
>> perceived market price, while using much deeper discounts to the 
>> starting price whenever I was personally involved in a sale.  My deep 
>> discounted starting prices always did better.
>>
>> The deeper the initial discount, the better you will do -- however 
>> the amount of work goes up exponentially as well, and there is a 
>> point of diminishing returns.
>>
>> 50% dropped down to the next lowest magic number really works.
>> Yes, yes, yes -- of course you attract a lot of people who cannot 
>> afford the real price.  But you will also get 3 real ones, and they 
>> really will bid the property up to current fair market value -- and 
>> it really does work every single time ... provided that you follow 
>> through on your offer, and make clear throughout the inspection and 
>> round robin that the high bidder will be offered the house.
>>
>> Start weaseling, and all bets are off.
>>
>> Holly made some comment about "knowing they wanted the house for less 
>> than 100K" and "ending the agony...".  At what point do you suppose 
>> she told the bidders that they weren't going to get the house unless 
>> she got a price she was happy with...which, at that time, was around 
>> $150,000 because someone down the street had recently received $145?
>>
>> If you increase the starting price on your next home you will hurt 
>> the final selling price -- especially given that you already did not 
>> follow through on what turned out to be a fair price, and people will 
>> remember.
>>
>> Bill Effros
>> Author
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sean Folkson wrote:
>> > Bill,
>> >
>> > I don't quite understand....Holly got a high offer of $93K with her 
>> $74K advertised price.  With a realtor, she had a buyer pay $125-$130K.
>> >
>> > I'm pretty sure you're stating in your reply that if her ad was for 
>> $49,500 rather than $74,500 she would have received MORE than the 
>> $93K she was offered in her 5-Day sale?  And, furthermore, she would 
>> have gotten a buyer to pay the same range of $125K-$130K just by 
>> dropping the advertised price down $25K?  that is from 60% of the 
>> ultimate "market value" (as determined by the final sale transaction) 
>> down to 40%?
>> >
>> > Is that what you're saying?
>> >
>> > sean
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > 5-DayForum mailing list
>> > 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
>> <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
>> > 
>> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>> >
>> > 
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> 5-DayForum mailing list
>> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
>> <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days..com>
>> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> 5-DayForum mailing list
>> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>   
>
>
> -----Inline Message Follows-----
>
> Hello,
>
>  
>
> Is there any straightforward way to search the full text of the 
> archives, short of downloading the Gzipped file for each month?  Also, 
> my version of WinZip, 11.2, keeps saying ?Invalid archive directory? 
> whenever I try to open one.  Has anyone else seen and solved this 
> issue before?
>
>  
>
> Thanks,
>
> Eric
>
>
> --- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! 
> <http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html> ---
>
>
>
> -----Inline Message Follows-----
>
> Eric,
>
> Sorry I didn't reply sooner, I've been researching your answer.
>
> Google used to index them automatically, but they keep changing their 
> algorithms.
>
> The easiest thing to do at this time is to join the list and ask 
> questions.  People will point you back, or cut and paste sections of 
> the archives.
>
> I have actually stopped indexing the Forum for my own purposes, and I 
> simply dip back into it to find prior questions and answers.  I sort 
> by author and subject to find what I'm looking for, and I would 
> suggest that you do the same, without ever downloading the entire file.
>
> I try to get everyone to change the subject line so topics will be 
> easy to spot.
>
> Bill Effros
> Author
>
>
>
> Eric & Cheryl Voth wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>>  
>>
>> Is there any straightforward way to search the full text of the 
>> archives, short of downloading the Gzipped file for each month? 
>>  Also, my version of WinZip, 11.2, keeps saying ?Invalid archive 
>> directory? whenever I try to open one.  Has anyone else seen and 
>> solved this issue before?
>>
>>  
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Eric
>>
>>
>> --- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! 
>> <http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html> ---
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> 5-DayForum mailing list
>> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>   
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
> <mailto:5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
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> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>   
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From HFraleyjr at aol.com  Sun Mar 22 16:40:17 2009
From: HFraleyjr at aol.com (HFraleyjr at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 16:40:17 EDT
Subject: [5-DayForum] Posting
Message-ID: <d4a.4db60f5a.36f7fc31@aol.com>

Thanks, Holly for the valuable perspective on your experience.
 
Henry
**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store?  Make dinner for $10 or 
less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)
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From eclmvoth at usfamily.net  Sat Mar 21 20:09:54 2009
From: eclmvoth at usfamily.net (Eric & Cheryl Voth)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 19:09:54 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [5-DayForum]  searching the Forum archives
Message-ID: <000001c9aa82$cc562d80$0200a8c0@VothDellPC>

Hi Bill,

 

Thanks for your reply.  I did actually find a couple of posts by Googling
"5-DayForum" plus the search term I wanted.  

 

When you "dip back into" old posts, do you have to check one month at a
time?  That's the only public option I can find.  I don't even see a link
anywhere to "download the entire file".  Am I missing something?

 

Thanks,

Eric




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From ejurban at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 23 10:52:56 2009
From: ejurban at hotmail.com (Edmund Urban)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 04:52:56 -1000
Subject: [5-DayForum] condo sale in Hawaii
In-Reply-To: <773220.9463.qm@web111305.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <773220.9463.qm@web111305.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <SNT104-W51BE4B5192583C40219148AA920@phx.gbl>


Aloha Glenda,

 

Thanks for the great feedback.  It looks like your message was cut off.  We were seriously considering the 5-day sale even though we have a broker since we are looking at relatively a low broker fee, but do not know if this has been done and how to indicate this to the bidders.  Has anybody else done this?  We do not want them to think that it is a FSBO and then turn around and have a broker deal with the closing.  Would we leave the broker out of it altogether and just pay there fee afterward?

 

Our other thought was to rent it short term for the couple of months left since we have some staging furniture already there - our biggest worry right now is how much worse the market will be in a couple of month.  I will have to look at the contract with our broker again for the details, thanks for the suggestion.

 

I hear what you are saying about having a lot of questions.  If we did not have a broker, I am still not sure who to use as a settlement company, and what that all entails.  We were considering doing the sale this week, but are concerned about this week (and next week) being Spring Break weeks.  I do not recall if that was a block-out time for not doing the 5-day sale due to so many people on vacation (my wife has the book at her office).  My inclination is not to do it until after this week.  There will be more vacationers in Hawaii, but do not think that they would be downtown condo buyers!

 

It seems that we have really expensive adds here in HI.  We were quoted over $1000 to run in 1 of our 2 mainstream papers, and am not sure if there are more specifics on add sizing...?  I don't know if that is the norm elsewhere.  We do not run a lot of adds.

 

I was looking back through some of the archive threads on the forum.  If we have questions that come up during our 5-day sale, is it best to scroll through past postings for similar topics or send in the questions, whether they have been asked or not?

 

Mahalo,

Ed

 

 


Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 01:36:09 -0700
From: glendav24 at yahoo.com
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Subject: [5-DayForum] condo sale in Hawaii






Hi!  Ed-
You will owe your current broker commission if the buyer saw your property at the time you were in contract with a broker.  Depending on your contract some even extend it to 6 months or so on any sale you make after you cancel your contract with the broker.  I suggest you read your broker contract...also on doing a 5 day sale...I suggest learning from this forum first and reading the book thoroughly, asking questions before embarking on it.  I read the book about a month ago, decided its simple enough to follow and went ahead and planned my 5 day sale, not realizing that questions come up as I am going through it which I wish I had known the answers to before doing what I am doing now.  We have a 5 day sale scheduled this weekend in NYC on our coopbut its eith




From: "5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com" <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:20:49 AM
Subject: 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 27

Send 5-DayForum mailing list submissions to
    5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com

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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of 5-DayForum digest..."
Today's Topics:

  1. Re: Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan (Steven Herbert)
  2. Re: Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan (Naji)
  3. 2009 update? (Cynthia Zimpfer)
  4.  Pricing? (Sean Folkson)
  5. Re: 2009 update? (Bill Effros)
  6. Re: Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan (lbicon at aol.com)
  7. Hawaii downtown condo - currently have realtor (Edmund Urban)
  8. Re: Hawaii downtown condo - currently have realtor
      (rosemarie-fred)
  9. Re: Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan (Jo Ann Kelty)
  10. Re: Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan (Jo Ann Kelty)
  11. Re: Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan (SKY HIGH)
  12. Re: Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan (Jo Ann Kelty)
  13. Re: Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan (SKY HIGH)
  14. Please Indicate Your Location (Bill Effros)
  15. Re: Please Indicate Your Location (Tom Wilson)
  16. Re: What happened??? (Holly MacIntyre)
  17. Re: Hawaii downtown condo - currently have realtor (Kyle Cascioli)
  18. Re: What happened??? (Bill Effros)


-----Inline Message Follows-----


Bill suggests I stop making payments.

Would THAT speed the process along? Or am I just
asking for trouble since I could be making them (it
just doesn't make sense to, according to Bill)?

Steven 
Washington HomeOwner


--- Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Steven
> 
> In most cases the bank will not negotiate with you
> untill you have missed
> payments.. but you can get a loan modification it
> will just take longer
> since those that are behind are normally the first
> to be considered.
> 
> If you want to go down that path you may want to
> start your process soon..
> 
> Jo Ann
> 
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Steven Herbert
> <sterbert at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> > I've toyed with the idea of walking away (or
> > threatening to at least). I bought at $257K and
> owe
> > $248K after 3.5 yrs. I'm not sure if I'm
> underwater or
> > not (probably even w/sealevel).
> >
> > I haven't missed payments, I'm not struggling to
> make
> > them. But we're a military family and would be
> moving
> > this October. Renting won't pay near the $1800
> > mortgage and I'll be losing my income when I move.
> > Would a bank care about my situation considering
> > October is a ways off?
> >
> > Steven
> >
> >
> > --- "O'Day, Lili" <lili at lilioday.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I just want to say that one other possibility
> for
> > > those who think they may have an unfair bank
> loan is
> > > to have a forensic loan audit done. (google it!)
> > > One of my clients just had it done on 3 of her
> > > Washington Mutual loans . Every one of them had
> > > serious violations, which would have meant she
> would
> > > have paid  hundred of thousands of dollars too
> much
> > > to the bank..... (all considered predatory
> loans)
> > > Now the bank is on the hot seat,  She's been
> > > offered some really sweet terms on one of the
> loans.
> > > already.  ..2.9% +  ..  An audit that shows
> serious
> > > violations puts the borrower in a position to
> > > negotiate from a position of strength.
> > >
> > > Lili O'Day
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
>
5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Blili>=lilioday.com@
> > mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Naji
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:03 PM
> > > To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Definitions
> > > Principal
> > > adjective
> > > [PicExportError]            first or highest in
> > > rank, importance, value, etc.; chief; foremost.
> > > noun
> > > [PicExportError]            a chief or head of
> an
> > > organization
> > > [PicExportError]            something of
> primary
> > > importance
> > > [PicExportError]            Law. a person who
> > > authorizes another (an agent) to represent him
> or
> > > her
> > > [PicExportError]            Finance. a capital
> sum,
> > > the main amount of a loan or investment (as
> > > distinguished from interest or profit)
> > > Principle noun
> > > [PicExportError]            a fundamental
> > > assumption. The principles of physics dictate
> that
> > > you cannot travel faster than the speed of
> light.
> > > [PicExportError]            a generally
> acceptable
> >  > rule of action or behaviour. moral principles
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
>
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Bnkhouri>=
> > cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Bill Effros
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:54 PM
> > > To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Jo Ann,
> > >
> > > Naji's point, and my point is that many homes in
> > > many places are not worth the current value of
> the
> > > principal and probably will never ever be worth
> the
> > > value of the principal.
> > >
> > > A case in point would be a retirement community
> in
> > > Fort Meyers, Fla. where 64 of the 65 homes have
> been
> > > foreclosed.  That 65th home owner should get out
> of
> > > there as quickly as possible, and before paying
> any
> > > more money on the mortgage.  None of those homes
> > > will ever be lived in again.
> > >
> > > While this may seem like an extreme example,
> there
> > > are, at the least, 100,000s of thousands of
> homes
> > > that fall into this category at this time.  100%
> of
> > > their current value will be lost -- the only
> > > question is who will take the hit.  Let the
> banks
> > > and the taxpayers take the rest of the hit.  The
> > > home buyer has been hurt enough already, don't
> make
> > > it worse.
> > >
> > > This is not to say payment reduction may not be
> good
> > > for some people.
> > >
> > > But many on this list would be much better off
> > > immediately selling their homes either to the
> high
> > > bidder in a 5-Day Sale, or to their banks if the
> > > bank will not accept the current value of the
> home.
> > >
> > > Bill Effros
> > > Author
> > >
> > > PS -- Is it principal or principle....the
> principal
> > > is your pal...??
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jo Ann Kelty wrote:
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > I would agree if the homeowner is trying to
> > > negotiate with the banks directly.. because they
> do
> > > not know all the laws involved that can be used.
>  We
> > > nornally get the Modification for a period of 5
> > > years .. That give the homeowner the opportunity
> to
> > > get out from under any financial dificulties
> that
> > > they may be in at this time and if we are lucky
> the
> > > market may ( or may not ) go up in value.... but
> it
> > > will give them some breathing room ..
> > >
> > > If they negotiate with a bank ... the bank will
> > > normally only give them a 6 month reprive... and
> > > almost 50% will again be behind in thier
> payments 
=== message truncated ===>
_______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> 



      



-----Inline Message Follows-----

Steven,

There is no 1 size fits all solution. Every person has a different situation
and circumstances.

Start out with what your main objective is, and then take it from there...
There's no FREE lunch and you can't have the cake and eat it too. You will
have to pay the price one way or another, either by coming to the table with
money for the difference, getting zinged on your credit, getting hit by
uncle sam if it's not a primary residence, getting a deficiency judgment,
etc...

Let me know if you have any questions.

-Naji

This is from a previous posting that I made on this forum:

Anyone that purchased a home or refinanced (and tapped their equity) in the
last 5 years or so in many parts of the country (if not all of the country)
is upside down on their mortgage, i.e house worth less than what's owed on
it, or are falling behind on payments:

So what are the options if you're in that situation:

- Reinstatement - Determine the amount owed necessary to bring loan current.

This just prolongs the inevitable. If the house is worth much less,
especially in hard hit areas, expect to stay put for many many years before
you break even. So, you may find yourself in the same situation a few month
or years from now 
- Forbearance - Set up a payment plan to bring the loan current. 
Another option that's not really going to work. If someone cannot pay now,
how will he be able to become current with more payments. 
- Modification - Adjust the loan terms (interest rate, payment and length). 
Loan modification only benefits the banks at this point. They just tack it
on to the back end of the mortgage. 
This will only work if banks actually reduce the principal to match current
value. Unfortunately, less than 1% of loan modifications result in principal
reductions. 
- Deed-in-lieu - Give the property back to the lender. 
Works if the lender agrees to it and there aren't 2nd, 3rd, etc liens 
- Walk Away - Leave the property in the most beneficial way possible. 
    - Stay as long as you can in the home - You can stay at least 8
months before it goes to the bank and in states like Florida, expect to stay
almost 2 years. 
    - Don't pay the mortgage, but instead save it all so you can rebuild
your life 
    - When it's judgment time, find a place to rent and plan on renting
for a while 
    - You could also offload your property to someone as well 
- Short Sale - List the property for less than the amount owed. 
    - You can negotiate a short sale with your bank. You can do it
yourself or hire someone to do it on you behalf. It's really not that
difficult, all it takes is communicating with your lender 
    - Many banks are getting easier to work with while others are still
in dreamville 
    - Expect this to take months due to the bank backlogs. Also, some
banks want to see the property on the market for at least 90 days before
agreeing to anything. Then they do their own BPO (which is still out of
whack) and wait like everyone else thinking they can get all their money
back. 
- Refinance - Obtain a new loan to replace the current loan(s). 
Will not work unless you're going to bring a big chunk of change to the
table. 
- Excess Proceeds- Collecting excess money from the auction/sale of the
property. 
Wait until the property goes to the auction block and if there's any money
left after the 1st Lien holder is paid, you may get something back. Doubtful
in many cases since all the homes going back are worth less than the
mortgage 
- Postponements - Delay the auction/sale date of the property. 
Delay the public auction of the property while you try to figure something
out. This will only buy you time and you'll still have to face the music
later. 
- Stay In Your Home - Continue living in your current home. 
If you can afford the payments and are willing to stick it out for 10 years
or more, then just stay put

-----Original Message-----
From:
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman..howtosellyourhomein5days.com
[mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5da
ys.com] On Behalf Of Steven Herbert
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 5:18 PM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan


Bill suggests I stop making payments.

Would THAT speed the process along? Or am I just
asking for trouble since I could be making them (it
just doesn't make sense to, according to Bill)?

Steven 
Washington HomeOwner


--- Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Steven
> 
> In most cases the bank will not negotiate with you
> untill you have missed
> payments.. but you can get a loan modification it
> will just take longer
> since those that are behind are normally the first
> to be considered.
> 
> If you want to go down that path you may want to
> start your process soon.
> 
> Jo Ann
> 
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Steven Herbert
> <sterbert at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> > I've toyed with the idea of walking away (or
> > threatening to at least). I bought at $257K and
> owe
> > $248K after 3.5 yrs. I'm not sure if I'm
> underwater or
> > not (probably even w/sealevel).
> >
> > I haven't missed payments, I'm not struggling to
> make
> > them. But we're a military family and would be
> moving
> > this October. Renting won't pay near the $1800
> > mortgage and I'll be losing my income when I move.
> > Would a bank care about my situation considering
> > October is a ways off?
> >
> > Steven
> >
> >
> > --- "O'Day, Lili" <lili at lilioday.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I just want to say that one other possibility
> for
> > > those who think they may have an unfair bank
> loan is
> > > to have a forensic loan audit done. (google it!)
> > > One of my clients just had it done on 3 of her
> > > Washington Mutual loans . Every one of them had
> > > serious violations, which would have meant she
> would
> > > have paid  hundred of thousands of dollars too
> much
> > > to the bank..... (all considered predatory
> loans)
> > > Now the bank is on the hot seat,  She's been
> > > offered some really sweet terms on one of the
> loans.
> > > already.  ..2.9% +  .  An audit that shows
> serious
> > > violations puts the borrower in a position to
> > > negotiate from a position of strength.
> > >
> > > Lili O'Day
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
>
5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Blili>=lilioday.com@
> > mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Naji
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:03 PM
> > > To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Definitions
> > > Principal
> > > adjective
> > > [PicExportError]            first or highest in
> > > rank, importance, value, etc.; chief; foremost.
> > > noun
> > > [PicExportError]            a chief or head of
> an
> > > organization
> > > [PicExportError]            something of
> primary
> > > importance
> > > [PicExportError]            Law. a person who
> > > authorizes another (an agent) to represent him
> or
> > > her
> > > [PicExportError]            Finance. a capital
> sum,
> > > the main amount of a loan or investment (as
> > > distinguished from interest or profit)
> > > Principle noun
> > > [PicExportError]            a fundamental
> > > assumption. The principles of physics dictate
> that
> > > you cannot travel faster than the speed of
> light.
> > > [PicExportError]            a generally
> acceptable
> >  > rule of action or behaviour. moral principles
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
>
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Bnkhouri>=
> > cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Bill Effros
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:54 PM
> > > To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Jo Ann,
> > >
> > > Naji's point, and my point is that many homes in
> > > many places are not worth the current value of
> the
> > > principal and probably will never ever be worth
> the
> > > value of the principal.
> > >
> > > A case in point would be a retirement community
> in
> > > Fort Meyers, Fla. where 64 of the 65 homes have
> been
> > > foreclosed.  That 65th home owner should get out
> of
> > > there as quickly as possible, and before paying
> any
> > > more money on the mortgage.  None of those homes
> > > will ever be lived in again.
> > >
> > > While this may seem like an extreme example,
> there
> > > are, at the least, 100,000s of thousands of
> homes
> > > that fall into this category at this time.  100%
> of
> > > their current value will be lost -- the only
> > > question is who will take the hit.  Let the
> banks
> > > and the taxpayers take the rest of the hit.  The
> > > home buyer has been hurt enough already, don't
> make
> > > it worse.
> > >
> > > This is not to say payment reduction may not be
> good
> > > for some people.
> > >
> > > But many on this list would be much better off
> > > immediately selling their homes either to the
> high
> > > bidder in a 5-Day Sale, or to their banks if the
> > > bank will not accept the current value of the
> home.
> > >
> > > Bill Effros
> > > Author
> > >
> > > PS -- Is it principal or principle...the
> principal
> > > is your pal...??
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jo Ann Kelty wrote:
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > I would agree if the homeowner is trying to
> > > negotiate with the banks directly.. because they
> do
> > > not know all the laws involved that can be used.
>  We
> > > nornally get the Modification for a period of 5
> > > years .. That give the homeowner the opportunity
> to
> > > get out from under any financial dificulties
> that
> > > they may be in at this time and if we are lucky
> the
> > > market may ( or may not ) go up in value.... but
> it
> > > will give them some breathing room ..
> > >
> > > If they negotiate with a bank ... the bank will
> > > normally only give them a 6 month reprive... and
> > > almost 50% will again be behind in thier
> payments 
=== message truncated ===>
_______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
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>
http://mailman..howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> 



      
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-----Inline Message Follows-----

HI,
We are looking to sell our home in Maplewood, New Jersey in the spring of 2010.
How has the 5 day method changed now vs. last year given the current economic recession we are in and with the housing slump?

Any advice you can send our way would be  very appreciated.
Thank you.

Cynthia Zimpfer




-----Inline Message Follows-----

Bill, we would have DEFINITELY taken $355K had we gotten it at the auction.  The buyer was incapable of going that high.

The buyers we attracted were not capable of paying fair market value, which was in the mid to upper 3's.

Whether we spooked them or not is up for debate, but we WERE prepared to accept fair market value.  They were not capable of paying it....We interviewed several brokers after the sale weekend, one of whom was the one we chose, and 2 others that had no "horse in the race".  The realtor had absolutely NO REASON to think we'd list the property with him if we didn't get the sale.

Anyway, lots of speculation on this thread.

Thanks for your feedback, and your book, which I think is a great resource.....I'll run my "One Weekend Reserve Auction", or whatever I choose to call it, inspired by many of your ideas, and hope/expect to get current fair market value (as I was on my previous sale), which I am fairly confident is well above my asking price.

sean




-----Inline Message Follows-----

Cynthia,

There has been no change in how the 5-Day Method is employed.

You must start at 50% of the current market value -- you are not going to get what you believe you once could have gotten.

The New York area is among the last to really feel price declines.  They are just starting around here, whereas they have been palpable in other parts of the country for a year and a half.

What will happen a year from now is anyone's guess.

Bill Effros
Author



Cynthia Zimpfer wrote:
> HI,
> We are looking to sell our home in Maplewood, New Jersey in the spring  of 2010.
> How has the 5 day method changed now vs. last year given the current  economic recession we are in and with the housing slump?
> 
> Any advice you can send our way would be  very appreciated.
> Thank you.
> 
> Cynthia Zimpfer
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman..howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> 
>  



-----Inline Message Follows-----

Steven,

You should call your lender and give them a reason that you are "struggling" to make your payments. I have had about six clients call their lenders and get either "steamlined" refionances or loan payment mods. If you are looking for a significant reduction in your principle it isn't out there yet.

Conrad Kuiken, Loan Officer,short sale negociator,realtor,investor


-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Herbert <sterbert at yahoo.com>
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Sent: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 2:17 pm
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan


Bill suggests I stop making payments.

Would THAT speed the process along? Or am I just
asking for trouble since I could be making them (it
just doesn't make sense to, according to Bill)?

Steven 
Washington HomeOwner


--- Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Steven
> 
> In most cases the bank will not negotiate with you
> untill you have missed
> payments.. but you can get a loan modification it
> will just take longer
> since those that are behind are normally the first
> to be considered.
> 
> If you want to go down that path you may want to
> start your process soon.
> 
> Jo Ann
> 
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Steven Herbert
> <sterbert at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> > I've toyed with the idea of walking away (or
> > threatening to at least). I bought at $257K and
> owe
> > $248K after 3.5 yrs. I'm not sure if I'm
> underwater or
> > not (probably even w/sealevel).
> >
> > I haven't missed payments, I'm not struggling to
> make
> > them. But we're a military family and would be
> moving
> > this October. Renting won't pay near the $1800
> > mortgage and I'll be losing my income when I move.
> > Would a bank care about my situation considering
> > October is a ways off?
> >
> > Steven
> >
> >
> > --- "O'Day, Lili" <lili at lilioday.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I just want to say that one other possibility
> for
> > > those who think they may have an unfair bank
> loan is
> > > to have a forensic loan audit done. (google it!)
> > > One of my clients just had it done on 3 of her
> > > Washington Mutual loans . Every one of them had
> > > serious violations, which would have meant she
> would
> > > have paid  hundred of thousands of dollars too
> much
> > > to the bank..... (all considered predatory
> loans)
> > > Now the bank is on the hot seat,   She's been
> > > offered some really sweet terms on one of the
> loans.
> > > already.  ..2.9% +   .  An audit that shows
> serious
> > > violations puts the borrower in a position to
> > > negotiate from a position of strength.
> > >
> > > Lili O'Day
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
>
5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days..com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Blili>=lilioday.com@
> > mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Naji
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:03 PM
> > > To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Definitions
> > > Principal
> > > adjective
> > > [PicExportError]             first or highest in
> > > rank, importance, value, etc.; chief; foremost.
> > > noun
> > > [PicExportError]             a chief or head of
> an
> > > organization
> > > [PicExportError]             something of
> primary
> > > importance
> > > [PicExportError]             Law. a person who
> > > authorizes another (an agent) to represent him
> or
> > > her
> > > [PicExportError]             Finance. a capital
> sum,
> > > the main amount of a loan or investment (as
> > > distinguished from interest or profit)
> > > Principle noun
> > > [PicExportError]             a fundamental
> > > assumption. The principles of physics dictate
> that
> > > you cannot travel faster than the speed of
> light.
> > > [PicExportError]             a generally
> acceptable
> >  > rule of action or behaviour. moral principles
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
>
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Bnkhouri>=
> > cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Bill Effros
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:54 PM
> > > To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Jo Ann,
> > >
> > > Naji's point, and my point is that many homes in
> > > many places are not worth the current value of
> the
> > > principal and probably will never ever be worth
> the
> > > value of the principal.
> > >
> > > A case in point would be a retirement community
> in
> > > Fort Meyers, Fla. where 64 of the 65 homes have
> been
> > > foreclosed.  That 65th home owner should get out
> of
> > > there as quickly as possible, and before paying
> any
> > > more money on the mortgage.  None of those homes
> > > will ever be lived in again.
> > >
> > > While this may seem like an extreme example,
> there
> > > are, at the least, 100,000s of thousands of
> homes
> > > that fall into this category at this time.  100%
> of
> > > their current value will be lost -- the only
> > > question is who will take the hit.  Let the
> banks
> > > and the taxpayers take the rest of the hit.  The
> > > home buyer has been hurt enough already, don't
> make
> > > it worse.
> > >
> > > This is not to say payment reduction may not be
> good
> > > for some people.
> > >
> > > But many on this list would be much better off
> > > immediately selling their homes either to the
> high
> > > bidder in a 5-Day Sale, or to their banks if the
> > > bank will not accept the current value of the
> home.
> > >
> > > Bill Effros
> > > Author
> > >
> > > PS -- Is it principal or principle...the
> principal
> > > is your pal...??
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jo Ann Kelty wrote:
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > I would agree if the homeowner is trying to
> > > negotiate with the banks directly.. because they
> do
> > > not know all the laws involved that can be used.
>  We
> > > nornally get the Modification for a period of 5
> > > years .. That give the homeowner the opportunity
> to
> > > get out from under any financial dificulties
> that
> > > they may be in at this time and if we are lucky
> the
> > > market may ( or may not ) go up in value.... but
> it
> > > will give them some breathing room ..
> > >
> > > If they negotiate with a bank ... the bank will
> > > normally only give them a 6 month reprive.... and
> > > almost 50% will again be behind in thier
> payments 
=== message truncated ===>
_______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> 



      
_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
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Job Hunting? Start with the companies that posted job openings this week. 

-----Inline Message Follows-----

Aloha!
We have had our downtown condo listed with a realtor for the past several months.  It went into escrow once at $380k in Jan, but fell out last month at the end of closing due to seller financing (there was a competing offer of $363k).  The potential buyer had an appraisal in Jan that received the full appraisal amount.
 
We recently had an investor cash offer at $357k and we countered at $363k, but they did not accept or go higher.  My wife wanted to accept their offer, and with the potential loss of sale or lower offer, I am now in the dog house.  They went to relook again today, but do not know if they will reoffer.  My thought is that the condo could get close to $370k.  I would imagine that we would accept if they offered close to the same amount (which seems a little low to me - even though it is cash), but how would we go about a 5-day sale considering we have a realtor?
 
Sorry if this question has been asked..  I wish I had read the book before we listed instead of this past week.  I joined the forum a couple of days ago, but have not gone through past threads.  If there is one that answers this question, could someone pass it on please?
Mahalo,
Ed



Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Find out more. 

-----Inline Message Follows-----


I don't know anything about the real estate market in Hawaii - is it as bad as in most places? If so, I would think that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, and you should accept the offer.  Lots of people have being doing 5-day sales recently who thought their property was worth some amount, and come to find out the 5-day sale showed them that it was not worth that much after all.
If you don't get an offer now, and decide to go with the 5-day sale, you would have to ask your realtor to cancel the contract. If someone comes who already saw your house because of the realtor, you would, I think. still owe the commission.
Good luck. 
Rosemarie
Sometime 5-day seller, investor

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Edmund Urban 
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com 
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 7:47 PM
Subject: [5-DayForum] Hawaii downtown condo - currently have realtor

Aloha!
We have had our downtown condo listed with a realtor for the past several months.  It went into escrow once at $380k in Jan, but fell out last month at the end of closing due to seller financing (there was a competing offer of $363k).  The potential buyer had an appraisal in Jan that received the full appraisal amount.
 
We recently had an investor cash offer at $357k and we countered at $363k, but they did not accept or go higher.  My wife wanted to accept their offer, and with the potential loss of sale or lower offer, I am now in the dog house.  They went to relook again today, but do not know if they will reoffer.  My thought is that the condo could get close to $370k.  I would imagine that we would accept if they offered close to the same amount (which seems a little low to me - even though it is cash), but how would we go about a 5-day sale considering we have a realtor?
 
Sorry if this question has been asked.  I wish I had read the book before we listed instead of this past week.  I joined the forum a couple of days ago, but have not gone through past threads.  If there is one that answers this question, could someone pass it on please?
Mahalo,
Ed



Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Find out more. 





_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo..cgi/5-dayforum


-----Inline Message Follows-----


I would  never suggest to anyone to stop making payments... there is a liability to anyone that does that.... even an attorney would not suggest that you not make your payment if you can... that has to be your choice... 
 
Jo Ann


On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Steven Herbert <sterbert at yahoo.com> wrote:


Bill suggests I stop making payments.

Would THAT speed the process along? Or am I just
asking for trouble since I could be making them (it
just doesn't make sense to, according to Bill)?

Steven
Washington HomeOwner





--- Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Steven
>
> In most cases the bank will not negotiate with you
> untill you have missed
> payments.. but you can get a loan modification it
> will just take longer
> since those that are behind are normally the first
> to be considered.
>
> If you want to go down that path you may want to
> start your process soon.
>
> Jo Ann
>
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Steven Herbert
> <sterbert at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > I've toyed with the idea of walking away (or
> > threatening to at least). I bought at $257K and
> owe
> > $248K after 3.5 yrs. I'm not sure if I'm
> underwater or
> > not (probably even w/sealevel).
> >
> > I haven't missed payments, I'm not struggling to
> make
> > them. But we're a military family and would be
> moving
> > this October. Renting won't pay near the $1800
> > mortgage and I'll be losing my income when I move.
> > Would a bank care about my situation considering
> > October is a ways off?
> >
> > Steven
> >
> >
> > --- "O'Day, Lili" <lili at lilioday.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I just want to say that one other possibility
> for
> > > those who think they may have an unfair bank
> loan is
> > > to have a forensic loan audit done. (google it!)
> > > One of my clients just had it done on 3 of her
> > > Washington Mutual loans . Every one of them had
> > > serious violations, which would have meant she
> would
> > > have paid  hundred of thousands of dollars too
> much
> > > to the bank...... (all considered predatory
> loans)
> > > Now the bank is on the hot seat,   She's been
> > > offered some really sweet terms on one of the
> loans.
> > > already.  ..2.9% +   .  An audit that shows
> serious
> > > violations puts the borrower in a position to
> > > negotiate from a position of strength.
> > >
> > > Lili O'Day
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
>
5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Blili>=lilioday.com@



> > mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Naji
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:03 PM
> > > To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Definitions
> > > Principal
> > > adjective
> > > [PicExportError]             first or highest in
> > > rank, importance, value, etc.; chief; foremost.
> > > noun
> > > [PicExportError]             a chief or head of
> an
> > > organization
> > > [PicExportError]             something of
> primary
> > > importance
> > > [PicExportError]             Law. a person who
> > > authorizes another (an agent) to represent him
> or
> > > her
> > > [PicExportError]             Finance. a capital
> sum,
> > > the main amount of a loan or investment (as
> > > distinguished from interest or profit)
> > > Principle noun
> > > [PicExportError]             a fundamental
> > > assumption. The principles of physics dictate
> that
> > > you cannot travel faster than the speed of
> light.
> > > [PicExportError]             a generally
> acceptable
> >  > rule of action or behaviour. moral principles
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
>
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Bnkhouri>=



> > cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Bill Effros
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:54 PM
> > > To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Jo Ann,
> > >
> > > Naji's point, and my point is that many homes in
> > > many places are not worth the current value of
> the
> > > principal and probably will never ever be worth
> the
> > > value of the principal.
> > >
> > > A case in point would be a retirement community
> in
> > > Fort Meyers, Fla. where 64 of the 65 homes have
> been
> > > foreclosed.  That 65th home owner should get out
> of
> > > there as quickly as possible, and before paying
> any
> > > more money on the mortgage.  None of those homes
> > > will ever be lived in again.
> > >
> > > While this may seem like an extreme example,
> there
> > > are, at the least, 100,000s of thousands of
> homes
> > > that fall into this category at this time.  100%
> of
> > > their current value will be lost -- the only
> > > question is who will take the hit.  Let the
> banks
> > > and the taxpayers take the rest of the hit.  The
> > > home buyer has been hurt enough already, don't
> make
> > > it worse.
> > >
> > > This is not to say payment reduction may not be
> good
> > > for some people.
> > >
> > > But many on this list would be much better off
> > > immediately selling their homes either to the
> high
> > > bidder in a 5-Day Sale, or to their banks if the
> > > bank will not accept the current value of the
> home.
> > >
> > > Bill Effros
> > > Author
> > >
> > > PS -- Is it principal or principle...the
> principal
> > > is your pal...??
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jo Ann Kelty wrote:
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > I would agree if the homeowner is trying to
> > > negotiate with the banks directly.. because they
> do
> > > not know all the laws involved that can be used.
>  We
> > > nornally get the Modification for a period of 5
> > > years .. That give the homeowner the opportunity
> to
> > > get out from under any financial dificulties
> that
> > > they may be in at this time and if we are lucky
> the
> > > market may ( or may not ) go up in value.... but
> it
> > > will give them some breathing room ..
> > >
> > > If they negotiate with a bank ... the bank will
> > > normally only give them a 6 month reprive... and
> > > almost 50% will again be behind in thier
> payments



=== message truncated ===>
_______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>




_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum



-----Inline Message Follows-----


Conrad 
 
You are correct regarding the principle... however here in Florida I am seeing the increase in the reduction of principle... last week we had a client that the negotiators were able to reduce the principle from apx 300k to 150k  and we are seeing more and more of this happening here.. but  it is case by case and there are no guarentees..
 
Jo Ann


2009/3/16 <lbicon at aol.com>

Steven,

You should call your lender and give them a reason that you are "struggling" to make your payments. I have had about six clients call their lenders and get either "steamlined" refionances or loan payment mods. If you are looking for a significant reduction in your principle it isn't out there yet.

Conrad Kuiken, Loan Officer,short sale negociator,realtor,investor 





-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Herbert <sterbert at yahoo.com>
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Sent: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 2:17 pm
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan


Bill suggests I stop making payments.

Would THAT speed the process along? Or am I just
asking for trouble since I could be making them (it
just doesn't make sense to, according to Bill)?

Steven 
Washington HomeOwner


--- Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Steven
> 
> In most cases the bank will not negotiate with you
> untill you have missed
> payments.. but you can get a loan modification it
> will just take longer
> since those that are behind are normally the first
> to be considered.
> 
> If you want to go down that path you may want to
> start your process soon.
> 
> Jo Ann
> 
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Steven Herbert
> <sterbert at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> > I've toyed with the idea of walking away (or
> > threatening to at least). I bought at $257K and
> owe
> > $248K after 3.5 yrs. I'm not sure if I'm
> underwater or
> > not (probably even w/sealevel).
> >
> > I haven't missed payments, I'm not struggling to
> make
> > them. But we're a military family and would be
> moving
> > this October. Renting won't pay near the $1800
> > mortgage and I'll be losing my income when I move.
> > Would a bank care about my situation considering
> > October is a ways off?
> >
> > Steven
> >
> >
> > --- "O'Day, Lili" <lili at lilioday.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I just want to say that one other possibility
> for
> > > those who think they may have an unfair bank
> loan is
> > > to have a forensic loan audit done. (google it!)
> > > One of my clients just had it done on 3 of her
> > > Washington Mutual loans . Every one of them had
> > > serious violations, which would have meant she
> would
> > > have paid  hundred of thousands of dollars too
> much
> > > to the bank..... (all considered predatory
> loans)
> > > Now the bank is on the hot seat,   She's been
> > > offered some really sweet terms on one of the
> loans.
> > > already.  ..2.9% +   .  An audit that shows
> serious
> > > violations puts the borrower in a position to
> > > negotiate from a position of strength.
> > >
> > > Lili O'Day
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
>
5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Blili>=lilioday.com@
> > mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Naji
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:03 PM
> > > To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Definitions
> > > Principal
> > > adjective
> > > [PicExportError]             first or highest in
> > > rank, importance, value, etc.; chief; foremost.
> > > noun
> > > [PicExportError]             a chief or head of
> an
> > > organization
> > > [PicExportError]             something of
> primary
> > > importance
> > > [PicExportError]             Law. a person who
> > > authorizes another (an agent) to represent him
> or
> > > her
> > > [PicExportError]             Finance. a capital
> sum,
> > > the main amount of a loan or investment (as
> > > distinguished from interest or profit)
> > > Principle noun
> > > [PicExportError]             a fundamental
> > > assumption. The principles of physics dictate
> that
> > > you cannot travel faster than the speed of
> light.
> > > [PicExportError]             a generally
> acceptable
> >  > rule of action or behaviour. moral principles
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
>
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Bnkhouri>=
> > cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Bill Effros
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:54 PM
> > > To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Jo Ann,
> > >
> > > Naji's point, and my point is that many homes in
> > > many places are not worth the current value of
> the
> > > principal and probably will never ever be worth
> the
> > > value of the principal.
> > >
> > > A case in point would be a retirement community
> in
> > > Fort Meyers, Fla. where 64 of the 65 homes have
> been
> > > foreclosed.  That 65th home owner should get out
> of
> > > there as quickly as possible, and before paying
> any
> > > more money on the mortgage.  None of those homes
> > > will ever be lived in again.
> > >
> > > While this may seem like an extreme example,
> there
> > > are, at the least, 100,000s of thousands of
> homes
> > > that fall into this category at this time.  100%
> of
> > > their current value will be lost -- the only
> > > question is who will take the hit.  Let the
> banks
> > > and the taxpayers take the rest of the hit.  The
> > > home buyer has been hurt enough already, don't
> make
> > > it worse..
> > >
> > > This is not to say payment reduction may not be
> good
> > > for some people.
> > >
> > > But many on this list would be much better off
> > > immediately selling their homes either to the
> high
> > > bidder in a 5-Day Sale, or to their banks if the
> > > bank will not accept the current value of the
> home.
> > >
> > > Bill Effros
> > > Author
> > >
> > > PS -- Is it principal or principle...the
> principal
> > > is your pal...??
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jo Ann Kelty wrote:
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > I would agree if the homeowner is trying to
> > > negotiate with the banks directly.. because they
> do
> > > not know all the laws involved that can be used.
>  We
> > > nornally get the Modification for a period of 5
> > > years .. That give the homeowner the opportunity
> to
> > > get out from under any financial dificulties
> that
> > > they may be in at this time and if we are lucky
> the
> > > market may ( or may not ) go up in value.... but
> it
> > > will give them some breathing room ..
> > >
> > > If they negotiate with a bank ... the bank will
> > > normally only give them a 6 month reprive... and
> > > almost 50% will again be behind in thier
> payments 
=== message truncated ===>
_______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> 



      
_______________________________________________
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Job Hunting? Start with the companies that posted job openings this week. 
_______________________________________________
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-----Inline Message Follows-----


Can you explain how you go about trying to convince the bank to modify & reduce principal?

Carlos A. Chica
Sky High Planning, Inc.
7380 Sand Lake Rd.  #500
Orlando, FL  32819
Office:  (407) 352-3220
Fax:      (407) 738-4816
Cell:      (646) 552-0107
skyhighplanning at gmail.com


Coming Soon:


www. SKYHIGHPLANNING .com


"It's kind of Fun to do the Impossible"


 -  Walt Disney

On Mar 16, 2009, at 11:18 PM, Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com> wrote:





I would  never suggest to anyone to stop making payments... there is a liability to anyone that does that.... even an attorney would not suggest that you not make your payment if you can... that has to be your choice... 
 
Jo Ann


On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Steven Herbert <sterbert at yahoo.com> wrote:


Bill suggests I stop making payments.

Would THAT speed the process along? Or am I just
asking for trouble since I could be making them (it
just doesn't make sense to, according to Bill)?

Steven
Washington HomeOwner





--- Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Steven
>
> In most cases the bank will not negotiate with you
> untill you have missed
> payments.. but you can get a loan modification it
> will just take longer
> since those that are behind are normally the first
> to be considered.
>
> If you want to go down that path you may want to
> start your process soon.
>
> Jo Ann
>
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Steven Herbert
> <sterbert at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > I've toyed with the idea of walking away (or
> > threatening to at least). I bought at $257K and
> owe
> > $248K after 3.5 yrs. I'm not sure if I'm
> underwater or
> > not (probably even w/sealevel).
> >
> > I haven't missed payments, I'm not struggling to
> make
> > them. But we're a military family and would be
> moving
> > this October. Renting won't pay near the $1800
> > mortgage and I'll be losing my income when I move.
> > Would a bank care about my situation considering
> > October is a ways off?
> >
> > Steven
> >
> >
> > --- "O'Day, Lili" <lili at lilioday.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I just want to say that one other possibility
> for
> > > those who think they may have an unfair bank
> loan is
> > > to have a forensic loan audit done. (google it!)
> > > One of my clients just had it done on 3 of her
> > > Washington Mutual loans . Every one of them had
> > > serious violations, which would have meant she
> would
> > > have paid  hundred of thousands of dollars too
> much
> > > to the bank..... (all considered predatory
> loans)
> > > Now the bank is on the hot seat,   She's been
> > > offered some really sweet terms on one of the
> loans.
> > > already.  ..2.9% +   .  An audit that shows
> serious
> > > violations puts the borrower in a position to
> > > negotiate from a position of strength.
> > >
> > > Lili O'Day
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
>
5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Blili>=lilioday.com@



> > mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Naji
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:03 PM
> > > To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Definitions
> > > Principal
> > > adjective
> > > [PicExportError]             first or highest in
> > > rank, importance, value, etc.; chief; foremost.
> > > noun
> > > [PicExportError]             a chief or head of
> an
> > > organization
> > > [PicExportError]             something of
> primary
> > > importance
> > > [PicExportError]             Law. a person who
> > > authorizes another (an agent) to represent him
> or
> > > her
> > > [PicExportError]             Finance. a capital
> sum,
> > > the main amount of a loan or investment (as
> > > distinguished from interest or profit)
> > > Principle noun
> > > [PicExportError]             a fundamental
> > > assumption. The principles of physics dictate
> that
> > > you cannot travel faster than the speed of
> light.
> > > [PicExportError]             a generally
> acceptable
> >  > rule of action or behaviour. moral principles
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
>
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Bnkhouri>=



> > cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Bill Effros
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:54 PM
> > > To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Jo Ann,
> > >
> > > Naji's point, and my point is that many homes in
> > > many places are not worth the current value of
> the
> > > principal and probably will never ever be worth
> the
> > > value of the principal.
> > >
> > > A case in point would be a retirement community
> in
> > > Fort Meyers, Fla. where 64 of the 65 homes have
> been
> > > foreclosed.  That 65th home owner should get out
> of
> > > there as quickly as possible, and before paying
> any
> > > more money on the mortgage.  None of those homes
> > > will ever be lived in again.
> > >
> > > While this may seem like an extreme example,
> there
> > > are, at the least, 100,000s of thousands of
> homes
> > > that fall into this category at this time.  100%
> of
> > > their current value will be lost -- the only
> > > question is who will take the hit.  Let the
> banks
> > > and the taxpayers take the rest of the hit.  The
> > > home buyer has been hurt enough already, don't
> make
> > > it worse.
> > >
> > > This is not to say payment reduction may not be
> good
> > > for some people.
> > >
> > > But many on this list would be much better off
> > > immediately selling their homes either to the
> high
> > > bidder in a 5-Day Sale, or to their banks if the
> > > bank will not accept the current value of the
> home.
> > >
> > > Bill Effros
> > > Author
> > >
> > > PS -- Is it principal or principle...the
> principal
> > > is your pal...??
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jo Ann Kelty wrote:
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > I would agree if the homeowner is trying to
> > > negotiate with the banks directly.. because they
> do
> > > not know all the laws involved that can be used.
>  We
> > > nornally get the Modification for a period of 5
> > > years .. That give the homeowner the opportunity
> to
> > > get out from under any financial dificulties
> that
> > > they may be in at this time and if we are lucky
> the
> > > market may ( or may not ) go up in value.... but
> it
> > > will give them some breathing room ..
> > >
> > > If they negotiate with a bank ... the bank will
> > > normally only give them a 6 month reprive... and
> > > almost 50% will again be behind in thier
> payments



=== message truncated ===>
_______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>




_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum



_______________________________________________
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5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum


-----Inline Message Follows-----


Hi Carlos
 
I do not do the negotiation.. I process the paperwork.. and send it to the attorneys and negotiators..
 
The paperwork is very similar to a short sale..with the exception that you need to show that you have the income to make the lower payments once they are negotiated.
 
Jo Ann


2009/3/17 SKY HIGH <skyhighplanning at gmail.com>



Can you explain how you go about trying to convince the bank to modify & reduce principal?

Carlos A. Chica 
Sky High Planning, Inc.
7380 Sand Lake Rd.  #500
Orlando, FL  32819
Office:  (407) 352-3220
Fax:      (407) 738-4816
Cell:      (646) 552-0107
skyhighplanning at gmail.com


Coming Soon:


www. SKYHIGHPLANNING .com


"It's kind of Fun to do the Impossible"


 -  Walt Disney




On Mar 16, 2009, at 11:18 PM, Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com> wrote:





I would  never suggest to anyone to stop making payments... there is a liability to anyone that does that.... even an attorney would not suggest that you not make your payment if you can... that has to be your choice... 
 
Jo Ann


On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Steven Herbert <sterbert at yahoo.com> wrote:


Bill suggests I stop making payments.

Would THAT speed the process along? Or am I just
asking for trouble since I could be making them (it
just doesn't make sense to, according to Bill)?

Steven
Washington HomeOwner





--- Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Steven
>
> In most cases the bank will not negotiate with you
> untill you have missed
> payments.. but you can get a loan modification it
> will just take longer
> since those that are behind are normally the first
> to be considered.
>
> If you want to go down that path you may want to
> start your process soon.
>
> Jo Ann
>
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Steven Herbert
> <sterbert at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > I've toyed with the idea of walking away (or
> > threatening to at least). I bought at $257K and
> owe
> > $248K after 3.5 yrs. I'm not sure if I'm
> underwater or
> > not (probably even w/sealevel).
> >
> > I haven't missed payments, I'm not struggling to
> make
> > them. But we're a military family and would be
> moving
> > this October. Renting won't pay near the $1800
> > mortgage and I'll be losing my income when I move.
> > Would a bank care about my situation considering
> > October is a ways off?
> >
> > Steven
> >
> >
> > --- "O'Day, Lili" <lili at lilioday.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I just want to say that one other possibility
> for
> > > those who think they may have an unfair bank
> loan is
> > > to have a forensic loan audit done. (google it!)
> > > One of my clients just had it done on 3 of her
> > > Washington Mutual loans . Every one of them had
> > > serious violations, which would have meant she
> would
> > > have paid  hundred of thousands of dollars too
> much
> > > to the bank..... (all considered predatory
> loans)
> > > Now the bank is on the hot seat,   She's been
> > > offered some really sweet terms on one of the
> loans.
> > > already.  ..2.9% +   .  An audit that shows
> serious
> > > violations puts the borrower in a position to
> > > negotiate from a position of strength.
> > >
> > > Lili O'Day
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
>
5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Blili>=lilioday.com@



> > mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Naji
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:03 PM
> > > To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Definitions
> > > Principal
> > > adjective
> > > [PicExportError]             first or highest in
> > > rank, importance, value, etc.; chief; foremost.
> > > noun
> > > [PicExportError]             a chief or head of
> an
> > > organization
> > > [PicExportError]             something of
> primary
> > > importance
> > > [PicExportError]             Law. a person who
> > > authorizes another (an agent) to represent him
> or
> > > her
> > > [PicExportError]             Finance. a capital
> sum,
> > > the main amount of a loan or investment (as
> > > distinguished from interest or profit)
> > > Principle noun
> > > [PicExportError]             a fundamental
> > > assumption. The principles of physics dictate
> that
> > > you cannot travel faster than the speed of
> light.
> > > [PicExportError]             a generally
> acceptable
> >  > rule of action or behaviour. moral principles
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
>
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Bnkhouri>=



> > cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Bill Effros
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:54 PM
> > > To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Jo Ann,
> > >
> > > Naji's point, and my point is that many homes in
> > > many places are not worth the current value of
> the
> > > principal and probably will never ever be worth
> the
> > > value of the principal.
> > >
> > > A case in point would be a retirement community
> in
> > > Fort Meyers, Fla. where 64 of the 65 homes have
> been
> > > foreclosed.  That 65th home owner should get out
> of
> > > there as quickly as possible, and before paying
> any
> > > more money on the mortgage.  None of those homes
> > > will ever be lived in again.
> > >
> > > While this may seem like an extreme example,
> there
> > > are, at the least, 100,000s of thousands of
> homes
> > > that fall into this category at this time.  100%
> of
> > > their current value will be lost -- the only
> > > question is who will take the hit.  Let the
> banks
> > > and the taxpayers take the rest of the hit.  The
> > > home buyer has been hurt enough already, don't
> make
> > > it worse.
> > >
> > > This is not to say payment reduction may not be
> good
> > > for some people.
> > >
> > > But many on this list would be much better off
> > > immediately selling their homes either to the
> high
> > > bidder in a 5-Day Sale, or to their banks if the
> > > bank will not accept the current value of the
> home.
> > >
> > > Bill Effros
> > > Author
> > >
> > > PS -- Is it principal or principle...the
> principal
> > > is your pal...??
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jo Ann Kelty wrote:
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > I would agree if the homeowner is trying to
> > > negotiate with the banks directly.. because they
> do
> > > not know all the laws involved that can be used.
>  We
> > > nornally get the Modification for a period of 5
> > > years .. That give the homeowner the opportunity
> to
> > > get out from under any financial dificulties
> that
> > > they may be in at this time and if we are lucky
> the
> > > market may ( or may not ) go up in value.... but
> it
> > > will give them some breathing room ..
> > >
> > > If they negotiate with a bank ... the bank will
> > > normally only give them a 6 month reprive... and
> > > almost 50% will again be behind in thier
> payments



=== message truncated ===>
_______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>




_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mailing list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum



_______________________________________________
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5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

_______________________________________________
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-----Inline Message Follows-----


I understand.  If you could find out any tips for handling the modification process it would greatly be appreciated.  Thanks

Carlos A. Chica
Sky High Planning, Inc..
7380 Sand Lake Rd.  #500
Orlando, FL  32819
Office:  (407) 352-3220
Fax:      (407) 738-4816
Cell:      (646) 552-0107
skyhighplanning at gmail.com


Coming Soon:


www. SKYHIGHPLANNING .com


"It's kind of Fun to do the Impossible"


 -  Walt Disney

On Mar 17, 2009, at 8:07 AM, Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com> wrote:





Hi Carlos
 
I do not do the negotiation.. I process the paperwork.. and send it to the attorneys and negotiators..
 
The paperwork is very similar to a short sale..with the exception that you need to show that you have the income to make the lower payments once they are negotiated.
 
Jo Ann


2009/3/17 SKY HIGH <skyhighplanning at gmail.com>



Can you explain how you go about trying to convince the bank to modify & reduce principal?

Carlos A. Chica 
Sky High Planning, Inc.
7380 Sand Lake Rd.  #500
Orlando, FL  32819
Office:  (407) 352-3220
Fax:      (407) 738-4816
Cell:      (646) 552-0107
skyhighplanning at gmail.com


Coming Soon:


www. SKYHIGHPLANNING .com


"It's kind of Fun to do the Impossible"


 -  Walt Disney




On Mar 16, 2009, at 11:18 PM, Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com> wrote:





I would  never suggest to anyone to stop making payments... there is a liability to anyone that does that.... even an attorney would not suggest that you not make your payment if you can... that has to be your choice... 
 
Jo Ann


On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Steven Herbert <sterbert at yahoo.com> wrote:


Bill suggests I stop making payments.

Would THAT speed the process along? Or am I just
asking for trouble since I could be making them (it
just doesn't make sense to, according to Bill)?

Steven
Washington HomeOwner





--- Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Steven
>
> In most cases the bank will not negotiate with you
> untill you have missed
> payments.. but you can get a loan modification it
> will just take longer
> since those that are behind are normally the first
> to be considered.
>
> If you want to go down that path you may want to
> start your process soon.
>
> Jo Ann
>
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Steven Herbert
> <sterbert at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > I've toyed with the idea of walking away (or
> > threatening to at least). I bought at $257K and
> owe
> > $248K after 3.5 yrs. I'm not sure if I'm
> underwater or
> > not (probably even w/sealevel).
> >
> > I haven't missed payments, I'm not struggling to
> make
> > them. But we're a military family and would be
> moving
> > this October. Renting won't pay near the $1800
> > mortgage and I'll be losing my income when I move.
> > Would a bank care about my situation considering
> > October is a ways off?
> >
> > Steven
> >
> >
> > --- "O'Day, Lili" <lili at lilioday.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I just want to say that one other possibility
> for
> > > those who think they may have an unfair bank
> loan is
> > > to have a forensic loan audit done. (google it!)
> > > One of my clients just had it done on 3 of her
> > > Washington Mutual loans . Every one of them had
> > > serious violations, which would have meant she
> would
> > > have paid  hundred of thousands of dollars too
> much
> > > to the bank..... (all considered predatory
> loans)
> > > Now the bank is on the hot seat,   She's been
> > > offered some really sweet terms on one of the
> loans.
> > > already.  ..2.9% +   .  An audit that shows
> serious
> > > violations puts the borrower in a position to
> > > negotiate from a position of strength.
> > >
> > > Lili O'Day
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
>
5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Blili>=lilioday.com@



> > mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Naji
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:03 PM
> > > To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Definitions
> > > Principal
> > > adjective
> > > [PicExportError]             first or highest in
> > > rank, importance, value, etc.; chief; foremost.
> > > noun
> > > [PicExportError]             a chief or head of
> an
> > > organization
> > > [PicExportError]             something of
> primary
> > > importance
> > > [PicExportError]             Law. a person who
> > > authorizes another (an agent) to represent him
> or
> > > her
> > > [PicExportError]             Finance. a capital
> sum,
> > > the main amount of a loan or investment (as
> > > distinguished from interest or profit)
> > > Principle noun
> > > [PicExportError]             a fundamental
> > > assumption. The principles of physics dictate
> that
> > > you cannot travel faster than the speed of
> light.
> > > [PicExportError]             a generally
> acceptable
> >  > rule of action or behaviour. moral principles
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
>
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Bnkhouri>=



> > cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Bill Effros
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:54 PM
> > > To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Jo Ann,
> > >
> > > Naji's point, and my point is that many homes in
> > > many places are not worth the current value of
> the
> > > principal and probably will never ever be worth
> the
> > > value of the principal.
> > >
> > > A case in point would be a retirement community
> in
> > > Fort Meyers, Fla. where 64 of the 65 homes have
> been
> > > foreclosed.  That 65th home owner should get out
> of
> > > there as quickly as possible, and before paying
> any
> > > more money on the mortgage.  None of those homes
> > > will ever be lived in again.
> > >
> > > While this may seem like an extreme example,
> there
> > > are, at the least, 100,000s of thousands of
> homes
> > > that fall into this category at this time.  100%
> of
> > > their current value will be lost -- the only
> > > question is who will take the hit.  Let the
> banks
> > > and the taxpayers take the rest of the hit.  The
> > > home buyer has been hurt enough already, don't
> make
> > > it worse.
> > >
> > > This is not to say payment reduction may not be
> good
> > > for some people.
> > >
> > > But many on this list would be much better off
> > > immediately selling their homes either to the
> high
> > > bidder in a 5-Day Sale, or to their banks if the
> > > bank will not accept the current value of the
> home.
> > >
> > > Bill Effros
> > > Author
> > >
> > > PS -- Is it principal or principle...the
> principal
> > > is your pal...??
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jo Ann Kelty wrote:
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > I would agree if the homeowner is trying to
> > > negotiate with the banks directly.. because they
> do
> > > not know all the laws involved that can be used.
>  We
> > > nornally get the Modification for a period of 5
> > > years .. That give the homeowner the opportunity
> to
> > > get out from under any financial dificulties
> that
> > > they may be in at this time and if we are lucky
> the
> > > market may ( or may not ) go up in value..... but
> it
> > > will give them some breathing room ..
> > >
> > > If they negotiate with a bank ... the bank will
> > > normally only give them a 6 month reprive... and
> > > almost 50% will again be behind in thier
> payments



=== message truncated ===>
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>
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>




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-----Inline Message Follows-----

Let's try putting our location after our names.

The fact that Jo Ann and Naji are in Florida is significant -- things are happening a year earlier there than in some other places.

If they are reducing principal in Florida, they will start doing it elsewhere as well.

Bill Effros
Greenwich, Ct.



Jo Ann Kelty wrote: 

Conrad 
 
You are correct regarding the principle... however here in Florida I am seeing the increase in the reduction of principle... last week we had a client that the negotiators were able to reduce the principle from apx 300k to 150k  and we are seeing more and more of this happening here.. but  it is case by case and there are no guarentees..
 
Jo Ann


2009/3/16 <lbicon at aol.com>

Steven,

You should call your lender and give them a reason that you are "struggling" to make your payments. I have had about six clients call their lenders and get either "steamlined" refionances or loan payment mods. If you are looking for a significant reduction in your principle it isn't out there yet.

Conrad Kuiken, Loan Officer,short sale negociator,realtor,investor 




-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Herbert <sterbert at yahoo.com>
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Sent: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 2:17 pm
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan


Bill suggests I stop making payments.

Would THAT speed the process along? Or am I just
asking for trouble since I could be making them (it
just doesn't make sense to, according to Bill)?

Steven 
Washington HomeOwner


--- Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Steven
> 
> In most cases the bank will not negotiate with you
> untill you have missed
> payments.. but you can get a loan modification it
> will just take longer
> since those that are behind are normally the first
> to be considered.
> 
> If you want to go down that path you may want to
> start your process soon.
> 
> Jo Ann
> 
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Steven Herbert
> <sterbert at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> > I've toyed with the idea of walking away (or
> > threatening to at least). I bought at $257K and
> owe
> > $248K after 3.5 yrs. I'm not sure if I'm
> underwater or
> > not (probably even w/sealevel).
> >
> > I haven't missed payments, I'm not struggling to
> make
> > them. But we're a military family and would be
> moving
> > this October. Renting won't pay near the $1800
> > mortgage and I'll be losing my income when I move.
> > Would a bank care about my situation considering
> > October is a ways off?
> >
> > Steven
> >
> >
> > --- "O'Day, Lili" <lili at lilioday.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I just want to say that one other possibility
> for
> > > those who think they may have an unfair bank
> loan is
> > > to have a forensic loan audit done. (google it!)
> > > One of my clients just had it done on 3 of her
> > > Washington Mutual loans . Every one of them had
> > > serious violations, which would have meant she
> would
> > > have paid  hundred of thousands of dollars too
> much
> > > to the bank..... (all considered predatory
> loans)
> > > Now the bank is on the hot seat,   She's been
> > > offered some really sweet terms on one of the
> loans.
> > > already.  ..2.9% +   .  An audit that shows
> serious
> > > violations puts the borrower in a position to
> > > negotiate from a position of strength.
> > >
> > > Lili O'Day
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
>
5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Blili>=lilioday.com@
> > mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days..com]
> > > On Behalf Of Naji
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:03 PM
> > > To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Definitions
> > > Principal
> > > adjective
> > > [PicExportError]             first or highest in
> > > rank, importance, value, etc..; chief; foremost.
> > > noun
> > > [PicExportError]             a chief or head of
> an
> > > organization
> > > [PicExportError]             something of
> primary
> > > importance
> > > [PicExportError]             Law. a person who
> > > authorizes another (an agent) to represent him
> or
> > > her
> > > [PicExportError]             Finance. a capital
> sum,
> > > the main amount of a loan or investment (as
> > > distinguished from interest or profit)
> > > Principle noun
> > > [PicExportError]             a fundamental
> > > assumption. The principles of physics dictate
> that
> > > you cannot travel faster than the speed of
> light.
> > > [PicExportError]             a generally
> acceptable
> >  > rule of action or behaviour. moral principles
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From:
> > >
> >
>
5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> > >
> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri
> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Bnkhouri>=
> > cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Bill Effros
> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:54 PM
> > > To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking
> Away
> > > From Your Home Loan
> > >
> > > Jo Ann,
> > >
> > > Naji's point, and my point is that many homes in
> > > many places are not worth the current value of
> the
> > > principal and probably will never ever be worth
> the
> > > value of the principal.
> > >
> > > A case in point would be a retirement community
> in
> > > Fort Meyers, Fla. where 64 of the 65 homes have
> been
> > > foreclosed.  That 65th home owner should get out
> of
> > > there as quickly as possible, and before paying
> any
> > > more money on the mortgage.  None of those homes
> > > will ever be lived in again.
> > >
> > > While this may seem like an extreme example,
> there
> > > are, at the least, 100,000s of thousands of
> homes
> > > that fall into this category at this time.  100%
> of
> > > their current value will be lost -- the only
> > > question is who will take the hit.  Let the
> banks
> > > and the taxpayers take the rest of the hit.  The
> > > home buyer has been hurt enough already, don't
> make
> > > it worse.
> > >
> > > This is not to say payment reduction may not be
> good
> > > for some people.
> > >
> > > But many on this list would be much better off
> > > immediately selling their homes either to the
> high
> > > bidder in a 5-Day Sale, or to their banks if the
> > > bank will not accept the current value of the
> home.
> > >
> > > Bill Effros
> > > Author
> > >
> > > PS -- Is it principal or principle...the
> principal
> > > is your pal...??
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jo Ann Kelty wrote:
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > I would agree if the homeowner is trying to
> > > negotiate with the banks directly.. because they
> do
> > > not know all the laws involved that can be used.
>  We
> > > nornally get the Modification for a period of 5
> > > years .. That give the homeowner the opportunity
> to
> > > get out from under any financial dificulties
> that
> > > they may be in at this time and if we are lucky
> the
> > > market may ( or may not ) go up in value.... but
> it
> > > will give them some breathing room ..
> > >
> > > If they negotiate with a bank ... the bank will
> > > normally only give them a 6 month reprive... and
> > > almost 50% will again be behind in thier
> payments 
=== message truncated ===>
_______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
> 



      
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Job Hunting? Start with the companies that posted job openings this week. 
_______________________________________________
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-----Inline Message Follows-----



I?m beyond thankful to be in the Arlington-Fort Worth area of Texas where two local cities actually had sales tax gains last month, home sales have held, if slipped a tiny bit and we have the added bonus of being on the very early years of the Barnett Shale one of the richest natural gas reserves in country and nearly every home owner will get bonus and royalties from it in the coming years.  I see construction going on around me including the new Dallas Cowboys $1.1 billion stadium.  Housing stock is plentiful here though fortunately in our HOA on a little lake, of the 132 homes in our HOA, four are for sale and none foreclosed on.  That rate for sake is maybe 1-2 houses more than usual for a 6-month period.  I do have plenty of friends out of work though and working in corporate retail, I know mine may only be a bad quarter away.
 
Keeping my fingers crossed that our fortunes remain and the rest of the country finds this same level some time soon.  It will be our turn another day for some other reason, but if you would like to move and can handle 100-degree days in August and no ocean, this is a good area to be in.
 


From: 5-dayforum-bounces+tomwilson64=yahoo.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+tomwilson64=yahoo.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 8:15 AM
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days
Subject: [5-DayForum] Please Indicate Your Location
 
Let's try putting our location after our names.

The fact that Jo Ann and Naji are in Florida is significant -- things are happening a year earlier there than in some other places.

If they are reducing principal in Florida, they will start doing it elsewhere as well.

Bill Effros
Greenwich, Ct.



Jo Ann Kelty wrote: 

Conrad 

 

You are correct regarding the principle... however here in Florida I am seeing the increase in the reduction of principle... last week we had a client that the negotiators were able to reduce the principle from apx 300k to 150k  and we are seeing more and more of this happening here.. but  it is case by case and there are no guarentees..

 

Jo Ann

2009/3/16 <lbicon at aol.com>
Steven,

You should call your lender and give them a reason that you are "struggling" to make your payments. I have had about six clients call their lenders and get either "steamlined" refionances or loan payment mods. If you are looking for a significant reduction in your principle it isn't out there yet.

Conrad Kuiken, Loan Officer,short sale negociator,realtor,investor 





-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Herbert <sterbert at yahoo.com>
To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Sent: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 2:17 pm
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking Away From Your Home Loan
  Bill suggests I stop making payments.  Would THAT speed the process along? Or am I justasking for trouble since I could be making them (itjust doesn't make sense to, according to Bill)?  Steven Washington HomeOwner    --- Jo Ann Kelty <joannkelty8 at gmail..com> wrote:  > Hi Steven> > In most cases the bank will not negotiate with you> untill you have missed> payments.. but you can get a loan modification it> will just take longer> since those that are behind are normally the first> to be considered.> > If you want to go down that path you may want to> start your process soon.> > Jo
 Ann> > On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Steven Herbert> <sterbert at yahoo.com> wrote:> > >> > I've toyed with the idea of walking away (or> > threatening to at least). I bought at $257K and> owe> > $248K after 3.5 yrs. I'm not sure if I'm> underwater or> > not (probably even w/sealevel).> >> > I haven't missed payments, I'm not struggling to> make> > them. But we're a military family and would be> moving> > this October. Renting won't pay near the $1800> > mortgage and I'll be losing my income when I move.> > Would a bank care about my situation considering> > October is a ways off?> >> > Steven> >> >> > --- "O'Day, Lili" <lili at lilioday.com> wrote:> >> > > I just want to say that one other possibility> for> > > those who think they may have an unfair bank> loan is> > > to have a forensic loan audit done. (google it!)> > > One of my clients just had it done on 3 of her> > > Washington Mutual loans . Every one of them had> > > serious violations, which would have meant she> would> > > have
 paid  hundred of thousands of dollars too> much> > > to the bank..... (all considered predatory> loans)> > > Now the bank is on the hot seat,   She's been> > > offered some really sweet
 terms on one of the> loans.> > > already.  ..2.9% +   .  An audit that shows> serious> > > violations puts the borrower in a position to> > > negotiate from a position of strength.> > >> > > Lili O'Day> > >> > > ________________________________> > > From:> > >> >>  5-dayforum-bounces+lili=lilioday.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com> > >> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+lili> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Blili>=lilioday.com@> > mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]> > > On Behalf Of Naji> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:03 PM> > > To: 'How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days'> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking> Away> > > From Your Home Loan> > >> > > Definitions> > > Principal> > > adjective> > > [PicExportError]             first or highest in> > > rank, importance, value, etc.; chief; foremost.> > > noun> > > [PicExportError]             a chief or head of>
 an> > > organization> > > [PicExportError]             something of> primary> > > importance> > > [PicExportError]             Law. a person who> > > authorizes another (an agent) to represent him> or> > > her> > > [PicExportError]             Finance. a capital> sum,> > > the main amount of a loan or investment (as> > > distinguished from interest or profit)> > > Principle noun> > > [PicExportError]             a fundamental> > > assumption. The principles of physics dictate> that> > > you cannot travel faster than the speed of> light.> > > [PicExportError]             a generally> acceptable> >  > rule of action or behaviour. moral principles> > >> > >> > > ________________________________> > >
 From:> > >> >>  5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri=cfl..rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com> > >> > [mailto:5-dayforum-bounces+nkhouri> <5-dayforum-bounces%2Bnkhouri>=> > cfl.rr.com at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com]> > > On Behalf Of Bill Effros> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:54 PM> > > To: How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days> > > Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] Thoughts on Walking> Away> > > From Your Home Loan> > >> > > Jo Ann,> > >> > > Naji's point, and my point is that many homes in> > > many places are not worth the current value of> the> > > principal and probably will never ever be worth> the> > > value of the principal.> > >> > > A case in point would be a retirement community> in> > > Fort Meyers, Fla. where 64 of the 65 homes have> been> > > foreclosed.  That 65th home owner should get out> of> > > there as quickly as possible, and before paying> any> > >
 more money on the mortgage.  None of those homes> > > will ever be lived in again.> > >> > > While this may seem like an extreme example,> there> > > are, at the least, 100,000s of thousands of> homes> > > that fall into this category at this time.  100%> of> > > their current value will be lost -- the only> > > question is who will take the hit.  Let the> banks> > > and the taxpayers take the rest of the
 hit.  The> > > home buyer has been hurt enough already, don't> make> > > it worse.> > >> > > This is not to say payment reduction may not be> good> > > for some people.> > >> > > But many on this list would be much better off> > > immediately selling their homes either to the> high> > > bidder in a 5-Day Sale, or to their banks if the> > > bank will not accept the
 current value of the> home.> > >> > > Bill Effros> > > Author> > >> > > PS -- Is it principal or principle...the> principal> > > is your pal...??> > >> > >> > >> > > Jo Ann Kelty wrote:> > > Bill> > >> > > I would agree if the homeowner is trying to> > > negotiate with the banks directly.. because they> do> > > not know all the laws involved that can be used.>  We> > > nornally get the Modification for a period of 5> > > years .. That give the homeowner the opportunity> to> > > get out from under any financial dificulties> that> > > they may be in at this time and if we are lucky> the> > > market may ( or may not ) go up in value.... but> it> > > will give them some breathing room ..> > >> > > If they negotiate with a bank ... the bank will> > > normally only give them a 6 month reprive... and> > > almost 50% will again be behind in thier> payments === message truncated ===>_______________________________________________> 5-DayForum mailing list> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>  http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum>             _______________________________________________5-DayForum mailing list5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.comhttp://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum







Job Hunting? Start with the companies that posted job openings this week. 

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-----Inline Message Follows-----






Hello All - thanks for comments as I was trying to "debrief" my 5 day sale experience.
 
As previously mentioned, I'm an investor who unfortunately got stuck with a house that didn't move on the market since January.  I got into a neighborhood with a lot of other investors who bought REOs and things were going well as recent as December 08.  Similar [cookie cutter 50 year old brick ranchs] homes remodeled similarly were selling for avg $149k.  It "crashed" and very little moved from January onward.
 
I held the 5 day sale 2/28-3/1 and did manage to get the requisite 25 callers, however I could tell from my conversations with bidders that the house would not sell anywhere near where I would have been willing even to "dump" it.  
 
Talked to Realtor who claimed he was able to move similar situation houses within about two weeks so I listed with him.  True to his word, we got it under contract in 15 days.
 
Here's the bottom line comparison - after price and other concessions and higher commissions, I will be $25 - 27k higher (net to me) than what I was able to pull in with 5 Day Sale (within 15 days of the sale, and certainly the market has not improved).  This clearly establishes that either the 5 Day Sale does NOT ensure highest possible price, or I did something wrong when I conducted the sale.  I would still like to understand if I did something wrong.  Perhaps the number of callers should be higher?  Certainly my buyer was out there 15 days ago, but I didn't reach him.  I would have taken his offer at that time and saved another $5k in realtor commissions.  
 
Any thoughts?   
 
Thank you,
Holly 
 


--- On Thu, 3/5/09, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:

From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???
To: "How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days" <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Date: Thursday, March 5, 2009, 10:20 PM


Conrad, Kyle,

Thanks for this discussion among professionals -- it's very helpful to amateurs. 

>From where I sit, it seems that everything varies by region, and all the professionals should be aware that what is true in their location is not necessarily true elsewhere.

There is so much small print, no one has the time to read it all.  And it changes daily.

There are many many places in this country where homes simply can't be sold, and no lender will provide a mortgage because there is virtually no possibility that the buyer, regardless of FICO score, will ever be able to repay it.

I believe that both of you guys are in areas where this phenomenon has not yet fully hit, and maybe it will never hit you -- who's to say.  But where it has hit, the situation is impossible.  There are too many homes and too few jobs.  When the jobs return, they won't be in these places.  No one in their right mind would offer a mortgage to someone who will not be able to either get or hold a job anywhere near that home.

But please keep your comments coming -- everyone learns from them.

Bill Effros
Author



lbicon at aol.com wrote: 
Hey Kyle,
I am a lender. Your loan comment was too broad. Basically you said that you need a 720 score. Simply not true.
The guidelines are now as I have stated. Coventional loans less than 20% down need a 720. Not all conventional loans.

We are trying to advise home sellers here. Are you advising that they make the buyers prove that they have a 720 FICO?
Read your comment again. I am sure that you meant conventional Fannie/Freddie loans . FHA is a whole different story..

Best regards,

Conrad


-----Original Message-----
From: Kyle Cascioli <real.estate.professor at hotmail.com>
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Sent: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 1:03 pm
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???


Hi Conrad:
 
I stand by the comment as that's what banker's are telling us and our clients.
 
I've seen it in the underwriting of loans here in Denver - a market more stable than most. Each loan application must be taken at its own merit..
 
Are you suggesting that it is easier to get a loan today than it was last year or the year before?
 
Do you disagree with the observation that the buyer pool has shrunk considerably and that that is further impacting what qualified buyer s are willing to pay for a property?
 
Best to all, 
 
Kyle Cascioli
www.AuctionBySeller.com 
 


To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 14:11:16 -0500
From: lbicon at aol.com
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???

Hello Kyle,

Sorry but your information about loan qualification is incorrect. If a buyer is putting less than 20 percent down payment, the mortgage insurance company's are requiring a 720 mid FICO score. FHA is still agreat option with as little 3.5% down with much lower FICO requirement.

Regards,

Conrad


-----Original Message-----
From: Kyle Cascioli <real.estate.professor at hotmail.com>
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Sent: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 10:17 am
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???


Hi Holly:
 
I agree with RC and Bill ...
 
Since& nbsp;the October stock market implosion we've seen the qualified buyer pool shrink considerably.  You now need a 720 FICO score to get a loan.  Cash is coveted!
 
Buyer's are only making offers on properties that they believe they can't get hurt on and expecting to see their acquisition property go down in value post-sale.  By how much is anyone's guess, but buyer's are being very conservative and defensive.
 
We are conducting our first builder 5 Day Sale here in Denver this weekend on 4 selected loft units, and you are welcome to come by and observe if you like.
 
www.DenverLoftsAuction.com 
 
Hang in there.
 
Kyle Cascioli
www.AuctionByBuilder.com 
www.AuctionBySeller.com 
www.AuctionByAgent.com 
 


Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 06:54:34 -0800
From: hollymac2 at yahoo.com
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Subject: [5-DayForum] What happened???







Hello - I just conducted my first 5-day sale and it failed miserably.  I was very disappointed and desperate - have to se ll.  I would like to understand what went wrong.
 
I did pull the 25 responses basically off of my newspaper add alone (couldn't figure out how to get Craigs list from continuously deleting my add.....).  And I did NOT include multiple responses from the same phone number, so I did get the 25 unique responses.
 
Still, my traffic was very light, and the only bids offered were from investors (who were out the first round) or people who really believed they could get the property for 50 - 60% of FMV.
 
Please help me debrief.  I have a sen se the technique can work, I just don't know what happened in my case.
 
My property is a fix and flip.  The property is in a nice neighborhood of 50 year old cookie cutter brick ranches that are low tier housing (that is - below median price in the Denver Metro area - Colorado)..  The neighborhood is good and desireable (not gang stuff etc) has gotten a lot of investors (like me!) in fixing and flipping.  The week before my sale, an exact model similarly remodeled, sold without consessions for $145,000.  The comps of the exact model, similarly remodeled have sold within days to less than a month for $138,000 - $149,000.  Mine was advertised at $74,500 and as I said I was satisfied I got the needed calls.
 
What happened?
 
Dismayed - and now more desperate than ever...
 
Holly
 
 
 


Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. Check it out. = 
_______________________________________________
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ling list
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-----Inline Message Follows-----


 Hi Ed:
 
You should make the deal "even though it's all cash."
 
If that doesn't happen, you and your agent could explore working through our 5 Day Sale platform.
 
www.AuctionByAgent.com 
 
Good luck!
 
Kyle Cascioli
www.AuctionBySeller.com 



From: ejurban at hotmail.com
To: 5-dayforum at mailman..howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 13:47:24 -1000
Subject: [5-DayForum] Hawaii downtown condo - currently have realtor

Aloha!
We have had our downtown condo listed with a realtor for the past several months.  It went into escrow once at $380k in Jan, but fell out last month at the end of closing due to seller financing (there was a competing offer of $363k).  The potential buyer had an appraisal in Jan that received the full appraisal amount.
 
We recently had an investor cash offer at $357k and we countered at $363k, but they did not accept or go higher.  My wife wanted to accept their offer, and with the potential loss of sale or lower offer, I am now in the dog house.  They went to relook again today, but do not know if they will reoffer.  My thought is that the condo could get close to $370k.  I would imagine that we would accept if they offered close to the same amount (which seems a little low to me - even though it is cash), but how would we go about a 5-day sale considering we have a realtor?
 
Sorry if this question has been asked.  I wish I had read the book before we listed instead of this past week.  I joined the forum a couple of days ago, but have not gone through past threads.  If there is one that answers this question, could someone pass it on please?
Mahalo,
Ed





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-----Inline Message Follows-----

Holly,

Using real numbers (what did your house cost -- what was the advertised price -- what was the high bid using the 5-Day Method -- what was the price you sold for -- how much did the broker get etc.) please refresh our memory.  

Bill Effros
Author



Holly MacIntyre wrote: 





Hello All - thanks for comments as I was trying to "debrief" my 5 day sale experience.
 
As previously mentioned, I'm an investor who unfortunately got stuck with a house that didn't move on the market since January.  I got into a neighborhood with a lot of other investors who bought REOs and things were going well as recent as December 08.  Similar [cookie cutter 50 year old brick ranchs] homes remodeled similarly were selling for avg $149k.  It "crashed" and very little moved from January onward.
 
I held the 5 day sale 2/28-3/1 and did manage to get the requisite 25 callers, however I could tell from my conversations with bidders that the house would not sell anywhere near where I would have been willing even to "dump" it.  
 
Talked to Realtor who claimed he was able to move similar situation houses within about two weeks so I listed with him.  True to his word, we got it under contract in 15 days.
 
Here's the bottom line comparison - after price and other concessions and higher commissions, I will be $25 - 27k higher (net to me) than what I was able to pull in with 5 Day Sale (within 15 days of the sale, and certainly the market has not improved).  This clearly establishes that either the 5 Day Sale does NOT ensure highest possible price, or I did something wrong when I conducted the sale.  I would still like to understand if I did something wrong.  Perhaps the number of callers should be higher?  Certainly my buyer was out there 15 days ago, but I didn't reach him.  I would have taken his offer at that time and saved another $5k in realtor commissions.  
 
Any thoughts?   
 
Thank you,
Holly 
 


--- On Thu, 3/5/09, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:

From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???
To: "How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days" <5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Date: Thursday, March 5, 2009, 10:20 PM


Conrad, Kyle,

Thanks for this discussion among professionals -- it's very helpful to amateurs. 

>From where I sit, it seems that everything varies by region, and all the professionals should be aware that what is true in their location is not necessarily true elsewhere.

There is so much small print, no one has the time to read it all.  And it changes daily.

There are many many places in this country where homes simply can't be sold, and no lender will provide a mortgage because there is virtually no possibility that the buyer, regardless of FICO score, will ever be able to repay it.

I believe that both of you guys are in areas where this phenomenon has not yet fully hit, and maybe it will never hit you -- who's to say.  But where it has hit, the situation is impossible.  There are too many homes and too few jobs.  When the jobs return, they won't be in these places.  No one in their right mind would offer a mortgage to someone who will not be able to either get or hold a job anywhere near that home.

But please keep your comments coming -- everyone learns from them.

Bill Effros
Author



lbicon at aol.com wrote: 
Hey Kyle,
I am a lender. Your loan comment was too broad. Basically you said that you need a 720 score. Simply not true.
The guidelines are now as I have stated. Coventional loans less than 20% down need a 720.. Not all conventional loans.

We are trying to advise home sellers here. Are you advising that they make the buyers prove that they have a 720 FICO?
Read your comment again. I am sure that you meant conventional Fannie/Freddie loans . FHA is a whole different story.

Best regards,

Conrad


-----Original Message-----
From: Kyle Cascioli <real.estate.professor at hotmail.com>
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Sent: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 1:03 pm
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???


Hi Conrad:
 
I stand by the comment as that's what banker's are telling us and our clients.
 
I've seen it in the underwriting of loans here in Denver - a market more stable than most. Each loan application must be taken at its own merit..
 
Are you suggesting that it is easier to get a loan today than it was last year or the year before?
 
Do you disagree with the observation that the buyer pool has shrunk considerably and that that is further impacting what qualified buyer s are willing to pay for a property?
 
Best to all, 
 
Kyle Cascioli
www.AuctionBySeller.com 
 


To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days..com
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 14:11:16 -0500
From: lbicon at aol.com
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???

Hello Kyle,

Sorry but your information about loan qualification is incorrect. If a buyer is putting less than 20 percent down payment, the mortgage insurance company's are requiring a 720 mid FICO score. FHA is still agreat option with as little 3.5% down with much lower FICO requirement.

Regards,

Conrad


-----Original Message-----
From: Kyle Cascioli <real.estate.professor at hotmail.com>
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Sent: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 10:17 am
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???


Hi Holly:
 
I agree with RC and Bill ...
 
Since& nbsp;the October stock market implosion we've seen the qualified buyer pool shrink considerably.  You now need a 720 FICO score to get a loan.  Cash is coveted!
 
Buyer's are only making offers on properties that they believe they can't get hurt on and expecting to see their acquisition property go down in value post-sale.  By how much is anyone's guess, but buyer's are being very conservative and defensive.
 
We are conducting our first builder 5 Day Sale here in Denver this weekend on 4 selected loft units, and you are welcome to come by and observe if you like.
 
www.DenverLoftsAuction.com 
 
Hang in there.
 
Kyle Cascioli
www.AuctionByBuilder.com 
www.AuctionBySeller.com 
www.AuctionByAgent.com 
 


Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 06:54:34 -0800
From: hollymac2 at yahoo.com
To: 5-dayforum at mailman..howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Subject: [5-DayForum] What happened???







Hello - I just conducted my first 5-day sale and it failed miserably.  I was very disappointed and desperate - have to se ll.  I would like to understand what went wrong.
 
I did pull the 25 responses basically off of my newspaper add alone (couldn't figure out how to get Craigs list from continuously deleting my add.....).  And I did NOT include multiple responses from the same phone number, so I did get the 25 unique responses.
 
Still, my traffic was very light, and the only bids offered were from investors (who were out the first round) or people who really believed they could get the property for 50 - 60% of FMV.
 
Please help me debrief.  I have a sen se the technique can work, I just don't know what happened in my case.
 
My property is a fix and flip.  The property is in a nice neighborhood of 50 year old cookie cutter brick ranches that are low tier housing (that is - below median price in the Denver Metro area - Colorado).  The neighborhood is good and desireable (not gang stuff etc) has gotten a lot of investors (like me!) in fixing and flipping.  The week before my sale, an exact model similarly remodeled, sold without consessions for $145,000.  The comps of the exact model, similarly remodeled have sold within days to less than a month for $138,000 - $149,000.  Mine was advertised at $74,500 and as I said I was satisfied I got the needed calls.
 
What happened?
 
Dismayed - and now more desperate than ever...
 
Holly
 
 
 


Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. Check it out. = 
_______________________________________________
5-DayForum mai
ling list
5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum




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Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the Radio Toolbar! _______________________________________________
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From nationalcaptial at comcast.net  Mon Mar 23 12:13:54 2009
From: nationalcaptial at comcast.net (Sunny)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 12:13:54 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] What happened???
In-Reply-To: <49C53BFA.3040808@effros.com>
References: <200903211704.n2LH4nMb009855@intel1.peregrinehw.com>
	<49C53BFA.3040808@effros.com>
Message-ID: <D0B50B7638A040FC8CEAE08B3F91D4C8@NCPPC>

take me off list
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
To: "How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days" 
<5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: [5-DayForum] What happened???


> Sean,
>
> You have to join the list to stay in the member's thread:
>
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>
> Using the 5-Day Method to "check out the pricing" doesn't really work.
> As soon as you reveal that you won't REALLY take the high bid, the high
> bidders will take a hike -- why shouldn't they?  Why should they tell
> you the most they will REALLY pay if they already know you are just
> going to negotiate FROM that point?
>
> You shouldn't use the 5-Day Method unless you are actually going to sell
> your home on Sunday night.  If you are just testing the market, use a
> broker, shoot for the moon, and then move into the house.
>
> I ALWAYS sell to the high bidder.  (I really do.  If I'm not prepared to
> sell to the high bidder I don't use the 5-Day Method.)
>
> Suppose you owned $500,000 worth of Citibank stock when you left the
> country that you didn't want to sell because you thought it would go up
> while you were away.  And supposed Citibank was teetering on bankruptcy
> when you got back.  What would you do?
>
> You could wait some more and hope for the best.  Or you could tell your
> broker to sell it at the best price possible on the day you select for
> the sale.  If you decide to sell it, you will take the high bid, knowing
> full well that the price you saw when you authorized the sale may be
> very different from the price you get during the course of the day.
> Citibank's value has gone up and down 40% in the course of a single day,
> and you have no control whatever over whether you sell at the high price
> or the low price or anywhere in-between.  Notwithstanding that reality,
> you will take what you get at the end of the day.
>
> Of course, you will be scared to death -- financially this is a scared
> to death time for most people.
>
> I can't tell you when to sell, but I can tell you how to use the 5-Day
> Method.  I can see you are listening.  I don't claim it is not scary -- 
> even after you've done it as many times as I have.  And it is
> emotionally draining, even if it's not your own house.
>
> Bill Effros
> Author
>
> Sean Folkson wrote:
>> Bill,
>>
>> I'd love to go, but I'm out of the country right now....otherwise,
>> I'd take the walk down there.
>>
>> How do I reply so that my reply ends up in the thread, and doesn't
>> start a new one?
>>
>> I see your point about the pricing.  I wish I had the book here to
>> see what you wrote about one topic....What do we do in the case where
>> somebody doesn't have to sell (like my case with the new home we're
>> building) and we simply don't get an acceptable high end offer?
>>
>> Do we just "counter-offer" to the high bidder what our acceptable
>> number would be?  If we can't sell the house for at least $440K, I'd
>> rather simply move into it, and then rent out our apt in
>> Manhattan.  Since I don't NEED to sell, there's no way I'd let the
>> house go for anything less than my "reserve".
>>
>> Are you saying that in that case, we simply shouldn't run a 5-Day
>> Sale?  I'd rather sell the house than keep it, and comps in the area
>> are still around $500K (and this is brand new, high-end
>> construction).  So, the way I see it, if I want to sell the house,
>> but don't NEED to, I have 2 options:
>>
>> 1.  sell it with many of the 5-Day methods, but price at $439K
>> 2.  Make a true 5-Day sale (but of course, if the high bid is $399K
>> or something like that, we won't take it).
>> 3.  List with a realtor at $485K (as a local realtor has suggested)
>>
>> If we were to start at the true Effros Magic Number (shudder to think
>> it would probably be $224,500 and that scares me to death), how do
>> you deal with it if the high bid doesn't come close to what we would
>> accept?  I believe you touched on this in your book, and I believe it
>> was to let the high bidder know they need to come up to your number,
>> but can't remember for sure, and the book is thousands of miles away.
>>
>> tx
>> sean
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> 5-DayForum mailing list
>> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
>> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> 5-DayForum mailing list
> 5-DayForum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum 


From sean at folkson.com  Mon Mar 23 12:21:14 2009
From: sean at folkson.com (Sean Folkson)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 17:21:14 +0100
Subject: [5-DayForum]  Pricing
Message-ID: <200903231627.n2NGR6Lf013049@intel1.peregrinehw.com>

Hi Glenda,

how did the sale go?  I misspoke last week, I'm on 62nd and 
1st....used to be just off 2nd.

what shook out?


From epolatty at gmail.com  Sat Mar 28 03:18:33 2009
From: epolatty at gmail.com (Eric Polatty)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 03:18:33 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] 5 Day Sale for Lease Options, Owner Financing, etc
Message-ID: <cce5cfb10903280018w210cac11w4a88334bd0562703@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Bill,
Thank you for the book and your active participation in this forum.

I was curious to know what experiences you and the users on this forum have
(if any) with using the 5-day to sell a house on terms - lease option, owner
carry. etc. Has anyone ever used the 5-day method or variation thereof, to
get a larger down payment/better terms? How would the bidding be
structured?

I am fully aware that selling terms carries financial and legal risks that
may not be appropriate in a ideal world for the "non professional" Joe &
Sally homeowner. However, these are desperate times.

Comments from all (even hearsay), are appreciated.

Eric

PS - I loved the use of the term "meanies" in the book.
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From jcrafor at hotmail.com  Sat Mar 28 11:58:16 2009
From: jcrafor at hotmail.com (j crafor)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 15:58:16 +0000
Subject: [5-DayForum] 5 Day Sale for Lease Options, Owner Financing, etc
In-Reply-To: <cce5cfb10903280018w210cac11w4a88334bd0562703@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cce5cfb10903280018w210cac11w4a88334bd0562703@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W41DAC30AAED6125555EB8DAE8F0@phx.gbl>


I've been considering lease options or owner financing. Apparently lease options may not be legal in all areas, so check your local/state laws, and before you decide on it, determine what your exit strategy(ies) are/may be. I know I would put a very short window on any lease option, and since I do not want to hold a mortgage for very long, I would likely have a balloon payment in a year or so, maybe one more, then a payoff. Be careful of laws, and what can be done. I haven't checked my own laws, yet.

Make sure to determine the standard (local) interest rate for owner financing. t can be pretty high--maybe 10-12 per cent.

Another exit strategy would be to sell the note to one of those companies or investors that buy contracts. We get tv ads on occassion here--"If you're getting monthley payments, we'll buy your contract..." Be careful of them, too.
 

ONE site that offers owner financing info: http://homebuying.about.com/od/financingadvice/qt/091007_OwnFinan.htm

 

I hope others will chime in here, I'm trying to learn about it, as I have been asked to do that very thing.

JCrafor


Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 03:18:33 -0400
From: epolatty at gmail.com
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Subject: [5-DayForum] 5 Day Sale for Lease Options, Owner Financing, etc

Dear Bill,


Thank you for the book and your active participation in this forum. 



I was curious to know what experiences you and the users on this forum have (if any) with using the 5-day to sell a house on terms - lease option, owner carry. etc. Has anyone ever used the 5-day method or variation thereof, to get a larger down payment/better terms? How would the bidding be structured? 


I am fully aware that selling terms carries financial and legal risks that may not be appropriate in a ideal world for the "non professional" Joe & Sally homeowner. However, these are desperate times.



Comments from all (even hearsay), are appreciated. 


Eric


PS - I loved the use of the term "meanies" in the book. 
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From bill at effros.com  Sat Mar 28 16:24:54 2009
From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 16:24:54 -0400
Subject: [5-DayForum] Kyle
Message-ID: <49CE8796.2050702@effros.com>

?

From ranglick at msn.com  Sun Mar 29 12:36:35 2009
From: ranglick at msn.com (RACHEL ANGLICK)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 11:36:35 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] (no subject)
Message-ID: <BAY130-DS73AFF9B1A014785BF9553D28C0@phx.gbl>

My wife and I are really thinking about doing the 5-day method to sell our house.  During the weekend inspection, are we supposed to let others view the initial bidding list?  Doesn't this list contain the bidders' names, addresses and the amount of the bid?  Thank you....

John
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From real.estate.professor at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 29 11:57:41 2009
From: real.estate.professor at hotmail.com (Kyle Cascioli)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 10:57:41 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] Kyle
In-Reply-To: <49CE8796.2050702@effros.com>
References: <49CE8796.2050702@effros.com>
Message-ID: <BLU122-W1607409128E18AB6E9DB9EB48C0@phx.gbl>


Hi Bill:

 

I'm not sure what happened to my message, but it was in response to your advise that you have another Forum.

 

What other Forum?

 

FYI ... just put boat in before big storm.  2 Photos for your amusement.  First is off Pelicans arriving at state park I sail from, second of Stinger.  The Pelicans picked a great day to show up for the summer.

 

Thanks, KC
 
> Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 16:24:54 -0400
> From: bill at effros.com
> To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
> Subject: [5-DayForum] Kyle
> 
> ?
> _______________________________________________
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> http://mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/5-dayforum

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From jcrafor at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 29 14:20:39 2009
From: jcrafor at hotmail.com (j crafor)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 18:20:39 +0000
Subject: [5-DayForum] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <BAY130-DS73AFF9B1A014785BF9553D28C0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY130-DS73AFF9B1A014785BF9553D28C0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W477F5B8E8D17D5E67836B0AE8C0@phx.gbl>


The bid list contains the bidder's name, phone number, and the amount, even if it's a penny. Some people do not want others to know what they will bid to, and the penny (low amount) gets them into the round robin bidding. For mine, I had 3 that immediately bid at about 95K, several others below that. The 3 were not the first, but more in the middle or near the end. I had one at $5, one at $10. Those two were among the top bidders.

JCrafor
 


From: ranglick at msn.com
To: 5-dayforum at howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 11:36:35 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] (no subject)




My wife and I are really thinking about doing the 5-day method to sell our house.  During the weekend inspection, are we supposed to let others view the initial bidding list?  Doesn't this list contain the bidders' names, addresses and the amount of the bid?  Thank you....
 
John
_________________________________________________________________
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From real.estate.professor at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 29 17:32:51 2009
From: real.estate.professor at hotmail.com (Kyle Cascioli)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 16:32:51 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <BAY130-DS73AFF9B1A014785BF9553D28C0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY130-DS73AFF9B1A014785BF9553D28C0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BLU122-W38FC964D96A3BA1A3ABA0BB48C0@phx.gbl>


Hi John:

 

Yes ... the bids are open for all to see.

 

We usually use bidder's name and phone numbers; not addresses.

 

This ads transparency, which is critical to the process.

 

Good luck!

 

Kyle Cascioli

www.AuctionBySeller.com 
 


From: ranglick at msn.com
To: 5-dayforum at howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 11:36:35 -0500
Subject: [5-DayForum] (no subject)




My wife and I are really thinking about doing the 5-day method to sell our house.  During the weekend inspection, are we supposed to let others view the initial bidding list?  Doesn't this list contain the bidders' names, addresses and the amount of the bid?  Thank you....
 
John
_________________________________________________________________
Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with Internet Explorer 8.
http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A
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From glendav24 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 29 21:53:06 2009
From: glendav24 at yahoo.com (V Glenda)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 18:53:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [5-DayForum] Pricing
Message-ID: <537688.96593.qm@web111307.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hi! Sean and Everyonelse-

I have not fully recovered from the open house.? We had about 50 showed up and 20-21 took part in the bidding process.? I am not ready to talk about our experience at length since I am still hoping we would sell for the price acceptable to us...so we can afford to get a bigger space.? I have about 5?or so?parties still interested in upping their bids to date.?I will share with? the forum once we finalized our decision.? Right now, I wish I did not start the price as low as we did....but it is a lesson learned...

Best,
Glenda
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? 1.? Pricing (Sean Folkson)
? 2. 5 Day Sale for Lease Options, Owner Financing, etc (Eric Polatty)
? 3. Re: 5 Day Sale for Lease Options, Owner Financing, etc (j crafor)


-----Inline Message Follows-----

Hi Glenda,

how did the sale go?? I misspoke last week, I'm on 62nd and 1st....used to be just off 2nd.

what shook out?




-----Inline Message Follows-----

Dear Bill, 

________________________________

From: "5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com" <5-dayforum-request at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com>
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 12:00:07 AM
Subject: 5-DayForum Digest, Vol 24, Issue 38



Thank you for the book and your active participation in this forum.?


I was curious to know what experiences you and the users on this forum have (if any) with using the 5-day to sell a house on terms?- lease option, owner carry. etc. Has anyone ever used the 5-day method or variation thereof, to get a larger down payment/better terms? How would the bidding be structured??

I am fully aware that selling terms carries financial and legal risks that may not be appropriate in a ideal world for the "non professional" Joe & Sally homeowner. However, these are desperate times.


Comments from all (even hearsay), are appreciated.?

Eric

PS - I loved the use of the term "meanies" in the book.?

-----Inline Message Follows-----

I've been considering lease options or owner financing. Apparently lease options may not be legal in all areas, so check your local/state laws, and before you decide on it, determine what your exit strategy(ies) are/may be. I know I would put a very short window on any lease option, and since I do not want to hold a mortgage for very long, I would likely have a balloon payment in a year or so, maybe one more, then a payoff. Be careful of laws, and what can be done. I haven't checked my own laws,?yet.
Make sure to determine the standard (local) interest rate for owner financing. t can be pretty high--maybe 10-12 per cent.
Another exit strategy would be to sell the note?to one of those companies or investors that buy contracts. We get tv ads on occassion here--"If you're getting monthley payments, we'll buy your contract..." Be careful of them, too.
?
ONE site that offers owner financing info: http://homebuying.about.com/od/financingadvice/qt/091007_OwnFinan.htm
?
I hope others will chime in here, I'm trying to learn about it, as I have been asked to do that very thing.
JCrafor
________________________________
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 03:18:33 -0400
From: epolatty at gmail.com
To: 5-dayforum at mailman.howtosellyourhomein5days.com
Subject: [5-DayForum] 5 Day Sale for Lease Options, Owner Financing, etc

Dear Bill, 

Thank you for the book and your active participation in this forum.?


I was curious to know what experiences you and the users on this forum have (if any) with using the 5-day to sell a house on terms?- lease option, owner carry. etc. Has anyone ever used the 5-day method or variation thereof, to get a larger down payment/better terms? How would the bidding be structured??

I am fully aware that selling terms carries financial and legal risks that may not be appropriate in a ideal world for the "non professional" Joe & Sally homeowner. However, these are desperate times.


Comments from all (even hearsay), are appreciated.?

Eric

PS - I loved the use of the term "meanies" in the book.?
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From sean at folkson.com  Sun Mar 29 14:44:36 2009
From: sean at folkson.com (Sean Folkson)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 20:44:36 +0200
Subject: [5-DayForum]  What happened???
Message-ID: <200903291849.n2TInTH4017995@intel1.peregrinehw.com>

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